Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet, if you read through the "Sweet Fellowship" thread, I think that might help you understand the feelings many of us share about TFDW. I can't think of anyone here who would make fun of anyone on the basis of sexual orientation.

Yes, I've read through it.  It's pretty nauseating.  Mostly just remarks on how he's effeminate and must be gay and har har 'fabulous' and how he hangs out with his brother in law, and the absolute worst, how he must be an abuser with the implied undertone being an abuser to children.  It's disgusting.  All this focus on mocking the person because of the suspicion he is gay due to not strictly adhering to dumb gender stereotypes instead of mocking the person for the the horrible, hateful philosophy he goes around supporting and preaching.  Being gay isn't a choice.  Being a hateful bigot is a choice.  One is open to mockery, the other shouldn't be.  

[Hannah]

Hi All this is my first time posting here im from the uk. Ive been a long time reader on TWOP and now here.

Ive watched every show shown in the uk the last thing we saw was Jills wedding 

 

Im so disgusted with what Josh has done to his sisters and how Josh, Jim Bob and Michelle has handled this situation both when it happened all through the 12 years and now 

 

I doubt what ever Jim bob and Michelle and the girls say that the Girls ever got the right help and support to deal with what happened.

 

How ever many times Josh, Michelle, Jim Bob and the girls says the girls have forgive Josh for what he did to them deep down there wont have and never will and there will must likely keep them feelings to themselves

 

It must be awful for the girls now with it all over the news and i cant imagine how there must be feeling now or what there going through

 

I think if the show dose carry on it will be hard to not address it and to carry on like it never happened etc.   

 

[andromeda331]

I finally posted a comment on one of the Duggar fan sites. I know it'll never be posted. But I had to point out that their defending Josh and all of their comments are the reason people don't report abuse. The fear everyone will flock to defend and protect their abuser. I do hope people see the many comments condemning Josh and his parents instead and find the strength to come forward. I said more but the only other part I wanted to mention that I also said towards all of their Bible references and comments that I hope they remember every single one of them when they stand before their God for their final judgment and have to explain why they chose to defend a molester. You can bet nearly everyone of them will be backpeddling.

 

I hope this isn't off topic even though it was part of a comment I made on another site. It is how I feel towards the Defenders especially the ones claiming if your a good Christian you would forgive. And even towards Josh, JimBob and Michelle. You know not one of them would say any of that stuff to their actual God.  

[WalrusGirl]

I'm sorry to be the wet blanket here, but I wish this whole TFDW thing would stop as I've read the list in the 19 Questions Thread and the explanation of how TFDW came about and it's clear that this is a term used for mockery. One, being gay isn't something to be mocked, no more than having red hair or being left-handed. It's no ok to mock gay people. Two, so much of the criticism against the Duggars over the years have been their strict adherence to gender stereotypes, so it makes little sense that the fandom would mock a person for not strictly adhering to a specific gender behavior. shame shame shame. [...] Mocking him for the suspicion that he's gay is shameful.

If it's deleted, it's because it's been moved to the correct thread. :-P Which is why I'm keeping this short, and it may also be deleted. That he really is pretty fabulous isn't derogatory, whether he's one of those very effeminate straight guys or closeted. (And given the culture in which he was raised, I hope it's the former, as I don't wish the latter on anyone in that environment.) Though he put himself on national television several times and works for the Gothard organization that put out that sickening sexual abuse curriculum, and is an adult, so his sexuality is fair game as forum policy anyway. I don't read the appropriate thread, but any regulars here who think he's abusive - because of his perceived sexuality, not because he's high up in Gothard's organization and follows those principles as headship with his family - is an extreme exception.

The acronym also likely became the consensus on the previous site, which was founded on the principle of snark.

But regardless, the mods may move or delete these as they're not the right thread, I'm just not sure people new to the 19KaC board this week will find the right place. But any debate probably needs to be continued there, since this has nothing to do with Josh, Anna, or the molestation news.

[GreyBunny]

Of course we're all sinners. But we aren't all criminals. I am admittedly not part of a fundamentalist cult, but I don't understand why nobody associated with this family seems to recognize this difference. What Josh did wasn't *just* a sin. It was a crime as well. You don't get a do-over for it by confessing and praying. That's not enough.

The Bible recognizes a distinction between spiritual and secular consequences for behavior -- why don't these people?

 

I'm not a sinner.  That's a christian/Abrahamic construct and I'm not a christian.  That bible stuff doesn't apply to me.

 

Those Duggars and sycophants want to flatten the curve by making repeated incestuous molestations of prepubescent girls on the level of getting a speeding ticket which is utterly absurd.  Maybe it's too late for a court of law but that doesn't mean society at large has to let this go. Josh is still out in public and, as far as I'm concerned, he's a danger to young female children and people who could come in contact with him (Arkansas, DC, wherever) have the right to take whatever steps necessary to alert others and protect their girls.

Edited May 25, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Higgins]

So basically the girls are having to relive it and are victimized again....sigh.

[starfire]

Does anyone know if the pedophile state trooper, Jim Hutchens, that JB brought Josh to for the stern "talking to" (which sounded like was off the record) has any connections to Gothard, Bates, etc.? Apparently JB brought along some "church elders" for this meeting. I am very curious as to why JB and Michelle decided to bring Josh to this particular trooper, how long they knew him, how close they were, if he had been to the Duggar home, etc.

 

Very creepy and ironic that JB & Michelle brought Josh to a pedophile to be talked to. Creeps me out that the trooper probably got off on it, and then of course he didn't do anything about it except supposedly scold Josh. 

[Darknight]

Maybe the state trooper will be interviewed. JimChelle brought their son to two pedophiles. How can they not see anything wrong with this. I mean I could see a pedophile being attracted to this cult. Since all you have to do is ask jesus for forgiveness

[bluebonnet]

Could the former trooper be charged for not properly investigating this?  I mean, the punishment will hardly matter for Trooper Hutchens since he's in prison for 56 years anyway.  But in general, is what he did wrt Josh Duggar considered a crime?  

[GreyBunny]

^ Good question.  He's law enforcement, that makes him a mandatory reporter of any child abuse he has knowledge of.  Instead of giving Josh a "stern talking-to" he needed to report Josh to CPS and other appropriate authorities so an official investigation can be done.  I wonder how much Jim Bob paid his pedo friend to keep things quiet.

Edited May 25, 2015 by GreyBunny

[becca3891]

In regards to the state trooper, I feel like his "off the record" approach must have broken the rules but I'm not an expert. I am so glad he's now serving what sounds like will amount to a life sentence for his child pornography conviction. I wonder what would have happened had there been an actual trial. I'm trying to imagine what I would do if it were my 14 year old molesting my younger children. A lock on their bedroom door obviously wasn't enough, because his behavior escalated to the book reading and laundry room incidents. I know sending your underage child to live somewhere else like a group home would be heartbreaking, but the alternative was so very unfair to the girls. I don't see what other option could have been drastic enough. I can't stop thinking about how one of them told police she still didn't trust him, 3-4 years later. How heartbreaking and unfair.

Edited May 25, 2015 by becca3891

[LilyoftheValley]

How would everyone feel about all this if Josh were a sweet, respectful and humble man?  I think it would make a big difference to me.  The fact that his so clearly unrepetentant is one of the main reasons I hate this man so much at this moment, and cannot simply chalk it up to being a teenage indescretion.  

[Churchhoney]

I agree, she probably won't, but she should. He is most definitely deeply disturbed, and I wouldn't want him around me or my children. He is a disgusting pervert, (and is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of men that grow up in cults (or lead them) are charged with sex offenses?) It's disgusting and inexcusable, and the show should've ended 13 years ago when they found out. I feel awful for those girls.

 

It's not just you. I think cults both attract and, probably, mold (certainly encourage) control freaks and the power obsessed. And since sex offenses are primarily about power and control -- voila. Ugly stuff, and we aren't nearly aware enough of these dynamics. I mean, we KNOW this, but we seem to forget it again and again.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Churchhoney

[bluebonnet]

How would everyone feel about all this if Josh were a sweet, respectful and humble man?  I think it would make a big difference to me.  The fact that his so clearly unrepetentant is one of the main reasons I hate this man so much at this moment, and cannot simply chalk it up to being a teenage indescretion.  

The response would be very different if he was a decent person who made a statement that reflected genuine remorse and understanding of what he did.  Honestly, even a smidgen of remorse might have changed things.  It's almost certain that he had several days in which to craft a statement (InTouch surely would have contacted to see if they could also grab an exclusive statement before releasing the police report) and he and his PR/lawyer team still failed miserably.  The thing is, the response he gave is really the only thing he could give to maintain the carefully crafted family image/brand.  I think they expected that because the world had somehow become smitten with this image and brand they presented, they would continue to do so.  Anyone who wasn't aware of how despicable these people are now have their eyes wide open.  Molestation changes things.

 

But yeah, it still would have made a difference if his statement wasn't so smug and self-centered.  He and his PR team are super tone deaf.  

[Julia]

Raw Story got a copy of Gothard's guidelines for counseling abuse, with sections like

"If the abused is not at fault," "Why did God let it happen?" (which covers defrauding), and "No physical abuse or mighty in spirit—which would you choose?"

. Spoiler tagged for advanced victim blaming.

[Kcat1971]

The WaPo (and as I recall, the dlisted timeline) aren't trying to publicly deduce who the exact victims are based on length of (inexcusably awful) redaction, etc. So they're doing better than this board has. A mod is the only one who's pointed out that it's icky. (And yeah, reading the police report, I couldn't help but draw some conclusions about who each interview could be too, but there's no decent reason to crowdsource - publicly - the identity of real, non-fictitious victims. Who were all minors, and one of whom still is.)

It's easy to view it a little as "it's TV" and try to piece it all together like other shows, but these are real kids in a real police report that, while obtained by ITW legally, sounds like was released to them illegally. A crowdsourced, unredacted version of a molestation investigation isn't really ideal in my book. :-/

(And it sounds like you don't want that either, so it isn't directed at you or anyone specifically! I've just read much more speculation and investigation that only serves to satisfy curiosity here than I have in the timelines, and while I got it initially - "holy shit, look at how young those possibilities were/look at that BS redaction," while it was a fresh shock - it doesn't serve any legit purpose.)

 

 

Thank you for posting that. I'm guilty of the crowd sourcing investigation.  I have a background of training that makes me able to investigate and dissect things in a clinical, non-emotional way and that kicked in. Honestly in my head, I was picturing the adults that we see on t.v. now, who have opened up their lives to public scrutiny.  When someone posted a 2003 picture of family, I had a OMG moment that changed my perspective.  I can tell you that my posts weren't just to satisfy curiosity.   It's how I deal with thing- break them down, examine them closely, get all the information to process.  But how I deal with things doesn't really matter compared to the privacy and respect that the people who lived out this situation deserve.

 

This is one of the things that I love about these boards.  People can have honest discussion about their perspectives, thoughts and feelings.  When an idea is presented in a respectful way it can change someone's mind. (Sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.) 

[GEML]

One thing is, I don't think it is possible for anyone to show genuine remorse because of potential legal ramifications. If Josh came out and said, "I'm so sorry that I molested those girls," that may be laying the ground for a civil lawsuit of some kind. I'm not sure, but he's not going to take that chance. His statement is classic DC lawyer CYA.

[bluebonnet]

Remorse to me, in a lawyer approved statement, would be something along the lines of, "Twelve years ago I hurt people very badly.  I received treatment and I strive to be a better person.  If you are a victim of sexual abuse, please contact blah blah blah at www.blah.org."  This tells me that he at least understands that he didn't simply get caught making out with his girlfriend before they were married, but that what he did was bad and that he understands that are real victims involved.  

[GEML]

You don't use the terms sexual abuse in your statement. Really, if you have never gone through a DC grilling, it's almost impossible to explain the milk toastness of it all, but a lawyer wrote that statement, and there's a reason political people sound so stupid as they do when they get caught doing things so dreadful.

[NextIteration]

A couple things of note for me based on recent posts... the only "timeline" that I was pursuing, honestly was to clear up my confusion regarding the events that unfolded in the last week, what triggered which with regard to the ITW article and subsequent posting of the redacted police record and the request and subsequent destruction of the police record.  

 

Personally, I cannot read the police record, I skimmed it a bit and shut it down, if I read it, I could end up in a fetal position for a week - not good for me.

 

While I am not exactly experiencing schadenfreude about this situation as much as disgust, I have a myriad of political and personal reasons for wanting Josh and his parents taken down (and hypothetically always did, whether or not this awful situation occurred) which have risen exponentially with every bit of exposure I've had to this Gothard evil and how it grooms young girls to be perfect victims of sexual abuse and every other example of how their family structure and belief system reduce females to brood mare status.  I cannot abide fundamentalism of any stripe - it's bad in any form, but especially religious - and this applies to almost all religions, imo.  The U.S. politics of this are abhorrent, these people are systematically trying to take away the reproductive rights of women, which lets face it are also economic rights.  They are also disgusting bigots, mostly about gender and sexual orientation but it absolutely extends to racism.

 

Josh and his parents specifically trade in hate mongering for $$$ and power, and I'm glad that at least one head of this hydra is dead.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ya'll know that right now the LAW & ORDER: SVU writers are chipping away at their keyboards for their "ripped from the headlines" version of this story.

Almost from the start of this, I've been wondering who's going to play who in the HBO movie of all this.

For some reason, I have been picturing Josh Hutcherson as Josh Duggar and then feeling bad for affiliating him with this clusterfuck of a situation, even if only in my imagination.

[Adiba]

I don't know if Josh's demeanor/ remorse would have necessarily lessened the harm caused to his victims (?)

It may affect the response of some in the public, however, molestation is molestation to the victims.

[Julia]

I'm not looking for details of who the girls were, but there are things in my own history which make me very interested in how and why the parents and their community chose to handle this the way they have. Bluntly, I think Josh Duggar, his parents, and his community have sacrificed their right to privacy on that subject.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Julia

[kathe5133]

Bluntly, I think Josh Duggar, his parents, and his community have sacrificed their right to privacy on that subject.

They lost their right to privacy once they invited the cameras into their homes. Really, who does that? Now these poor girls have their business splashed all over and I am sure they had no say in the matter. Hindsight being 20/20, we all should have known they were wack jobs when they let the cameras in.

[Churchhoney]

From Homeschoolers Anonymous, which has some new pieces on ATI and is tracking some of the response to the Duggar implosion, especially from home schooling advocates:

 

"'Abuse' is the new 'racism.' As soon as you're accused of it, you're considered guilty." So says the head of the Home Educators Association of Virginia, who's come out swinging in defense of Josh (and thrown in a passionate defense of Gothard re his abuse allegations, for good measure.)

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/heavs-rick-boyer-defends-josh-duggar-and-bill-gothard-claims-abuse-is-the-new-racism/

 

HA also reports that, while Kirk C hasn't spoken, his mentor Ray Comfort is boycotting TLC until they give up their egregious boycott of the Duggars. So there's that.

 

Also a couple of detailed pieces over there on ATI teachings on sex (including full text of a Wisdom Booklet) and the idea that it's everybody's fault but the perpetrator's -- in other words, how ATI may have helped Smuggar become so smug. Same old stuff, of course, but much more detail than I'd seen before. 

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

[Literata]

Yes, I've read through it. It's pretty nauseating. Mostly just remarks on how he's effeminate and must be gay and har har 'fabulous' and how he hangs out with his brother in law, and the absolute worst, how he must be an abuser with the implied undertone being an abuser to children. It's disgusting. All this focus on mocking the person because of the suspicion he is gay due to not strictly adhering to dumb gender stereotypes instead of mocking the person for the the horrible, hateful philosophy he goes around supporting and preaching. Being gay isn't a choice. Being a hateful bigot is a choice. One is open to mockery, the other shouldn't be.

Reading through the thread again, what I'm getting is that absolutely no one has a problem with his sexual orientation, whatever it might be. The issue is that because Gothard considers homosexuality to be wrong, people who happen to be gay have no choice but to be alone or enter into unions with people who are heterosexual. I've made the point that if he is in fact gay but is trying to "pass" as straight, his doing so isn't fair to his family, unless Priscilla is in on the plan.

I've found absolutely no one here to be homophobic in any way, shape or form.

Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

[Chicklet]

Every day someone is digging into Gothards little coven. Now reports say that Hobby Lobby owners are the money behind Gothard and ATI. Consider me shocked, absolutely shocked at this turn of events. And he's just interested in scrapbooking, I'm sure!

[Skittl1321]

[Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.]

 

I just can't even begin to discuss the situation, so I'm going to discuss the fluff:

Things like that are usually used by conferences to show how easy it is to get to the location. 

I've seen that on decidedly non-fundie conferences, and on conference location submissions. A conference is more likely to be awarded to an area a huge portion of the population can drive to easily.

[ChiCricket]

I just want to say to anyone posting or just reading these forums that have been through any kind of sexual abuse, that I am so, so sorry that happened to you.

Just please know NONE of any of it was your fault in any way. I just felt like I needed to say this, after reading all these posts for days and days.

They have brought me to tears. I am shocked to my core at how many people here have experienced this. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

[floridamom]

Hello again everyone...I've been moving back to my beloved Florida....and now this with the Duggars....Are we actually concerned that Anna, out in DC, would receive no help after her baby is born? Where is HER MOTHER, Mrs. Kellar? Traditionally, (with Michelle as the exception), the new mother's mother comes over and helps out for a few weeks, if they can, and we all know that Mrs. Kellar isn't employed and has only the sons at home who are grown up enough to look after themselves for a short time with their father...Sooo, why does it have to be the "jslaves" who always have to clean up after everyone else? Anna;s family should step up to the plate, (Mrs Kellar, I'm looking at YOU) and help her own daughter out....JMHO

[humbleopinion]

TLC must remove all the Duggars from their programming.

Shoving the Jill/Dill and Benessa  front center only lines the pockets of their parents and trickle down to Josh/Anna.

No Michelle, JimBob,Josh, Anna to ever cross my TV.

Pixelate them and bleep their narratives.

 

No revictimization of the girls who continue to live this nightmare.

Let them and the younger ones have private lives.

 

Social media will organize and flood TLC and any sponser stupid enough to hitch their wagon to this show with messages to stop this shameful exploitation.

[Honey]

Which season and what episode is this Erin Hill episode?

Erica Hill.  It's the last episode of this season.

[ms.o]

Could the former trooper be charged for not properly investigating this? I mean, the punishment will hardly matter for Trooper Hutchens since he's in prison for 56 years anyway. But in general, is what he did wrt Josh Duggar considered a crime?

yes, in arkansas it is considered a misdemeanor. I do not see Washington County pursuing it, but it could happen. Missouri has similar laws and I've only see one person charged with it in my county. Which is stupid, but that's an entirely diff thing!

If interested, here is the link of mandated reporter information for every state http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/Mandatory%20Reporting%20of%20Child%20Abuse%20and%20Neglect-nov2012.pdf

[Swedee]

 

While I am not exactly experiencing schadenfreude about this situation as much as disgust, I have a myriad of political and personal reasons for wanting Josh and his parents taken down (and hypothetically always did, whether or not this awful situation occurred) which have risen exponentially with every bit of exposure I've had to this Gothard evil and how it grooms young girls to be perfect victims of sexual abuse and every other example of how their family structure and belief system reduce females to brood mare status.

You have hit the nail on the head for me. I always had this thought in the back of my head that this family was the perfect breeding ground for victims. I can't stand Josh, JB or Michelle but I'm so sad for the girls. I hope that they can at least comfort each other - we know no one else will!

[Bella]

Just FYI, we're not hiding the posts questioning use of TFDW for David Waller.

 

If you don't raise issues and questions with us, we don't know that they're there. So thanks for noting this. In the future, just ask if something can be changed, and we'll address this.

 

Some posters get notifications when they're quoted. FTR, I quoted about 5 or 6 of you in one post of my own, then I hid my post. I'll be taking that post to the other mods for discussion, because it consolidates the various points you made about this. But it doesn't serve any purpose in terms of general discussion, which is why it's hidden. (Confusing? Sorry.)

[doodlebug]

Could the former trooper be charged for not properly investigating this?  I mean, the punishment will hardly matter for Trooper Hutchens since he's in prison for 56 years anyway.  But in general, is what he did wrt Josh Duggar considered a crime?

 

Depends on the statute of limitations for that offense.  If it is 3 years, like it was for Josh' crime, then it is too late.  The cops were told about it when Jim Bob came in for questioning, but that was more than 3 years after the fact.  The trooper, as a law enforcement officer, is a mandated reporter, meaning he was legally obligated to report the molestation to the proper authority to deal with it.  He didn't, but that is only a misdemeanor anyway.  Considering the guy is already in prison for 50+ years on multiple felonies, it wouldn't be pursued even if the statute hasn't run, which it probably has. 

 

If nothing else, I hope this story spurs Arkansas and any other states, to extend the statute of limitations on child molestation to at least 3 years beyond the victim's 18th birthday.  We've heard again and again how adults have let down the kids in these situations all too often.  Let's at least give some of these children the chance to get justice as adults.

[Mrsjumbo]

I don't think they should continue the show, even without Josh & family, JB & M. Those kids never got a choice whether to be on tv or not. I would hate to see them again given no voice. Does anyone really think JD or Jana want to continue with the charade?

[autumnh]

From Homeschoolers Anonymous, which has some new pieces on ATI and is tracking some of the response to the Duggar implosion, especially from home schooling advocates:

 

"'Abuse' is the new 'racism.' As soon as you're accused of it, you're considered guilty." So says the head of the Home Educators Association of Virginia, who's come out swinging in defense of Josh (and thrown in a passionate defense of Gothard re his abuse allegations, for good measure.)

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/heavs-rick-boyer-defends-josh-duggar-and-bill-gothard-claims-abuse-is-the-new-racism/

 

HA also reports that, while Kirk C hasn't spoken, his mentor Ray Comfort is boycotting TLC until they give up their egregious boycott of the Duggars. So there's that.

 

Also a couple of detailed pieces over there on ATI teachings on sex (including full text of a Wisdom Booklet) and the idea that it's everybody's fault but the perpetrator's -- in other words, how ATI may have helped Smuggar become so smug. Same old stuff, of course, but much more detail than I'd seen before. 

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

 

 

I literally mumbled STFU about 25 times when I read that article. Reading all of the posts defending this makes me feel like I am living in some alternate universe. I am speechless at the amount of people who will go to the ends of this earth defending this deplorable, horrific behavior.

[Almost 3000]

Which season and what episode is this Erin Hill episode?

 

 

I thought the gender reveal was number 21. It seems Digging with the Duggars isn't on Xfinity, but it's available on Amazon. Good thing I have some free promo codes available so I don't have to pay up.

Its on yt: 19 Kids And Counting | Season 10 Episode 21 | Digging In With the Duggars | May 19, 2015

[CofCinci]

AKA "the last episode ever."

Edited May 25, 2015 by AmandaPanda
removed illegal link

[Zung Li]

In all the recent pictures that I've seen on this board the women are showing their knees and wearing fitted shirts, etc. I've never watched this show (beyond the original special) but I thought they were chest binding, ankle-hiding types based on reading this thread and the comments about defrauding and modesty and all of that.

[NextIteration]

AKA "the last episode ever."

 

From your keyboard to TLC's boardroom. ;)

[Fuzzysox]

Reading through the thread again, what I'm getting is that absolutely no one has a problem with his sexual orientation, whatever it might be. The issue is that because Gothard considers homosexuality to be wrong, people who happen to be gay have no choice but to be alone or enter into unions with people who are heterosexual. I've made the point that if he is in fact gay but is trying to "pass" as straight, his doing so isn't fair to his family, unless Priscilla is in on the plan.

I've found absolutely no one here to be homophobic in any way, shape or form.

Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

Thanks for saying this.

I don't think we make fun of David but we do point out how messed up Gothard's teachings are. How many kids have committed suicide because their religion teaches them that being gay is wrong. We need to put an end to that. Even our Catholic Pope Francis sees the importance of acceptance.

I can't even with Gothard, a man who makes shit up and the followers become completely braindead!?!?

[kandinski]

Its almost like that interview episode was a goodbye to the duggars,complete with tlc allowing the negative comments from the street interviews.

[JenCarroll]

 

I recognize this is a post that will likely be hidden but I just can't stand this anymore and am genuinely saddened that this sort of behavior persists outside of the Duggar cult.

You're doing an enormous disservice to our moderators. They welcome respectful (or at least civil) disagreement, although they do usually do prefer it take place on the appropriate thread.

[Marigny]

Just thought of something that makes my heart sink even more: The Duggar's did and do a lot of traveling. Most of the time, they bunk at friends houses, not hotels or bus/RV parks. This would have allowed a whole lot of intermingling with girls outside of the family. My gut feeling is that there are more victims that weren't included in the police report. Couple that with the fact that it is high political season, I would not be surprised if this turns into a scaled down version of the Cosby Chronicles.

[CofCinci]

Just thought of something that makes my heart sink even more: The Duggar's did and do a lot of traveling. Most of the time, they bunk at friends houses, not hotels or bus/RV parks. This would have allowed a whole lot of intermingling with girls outside of the family. My gut feeling is that there are more victims that weren't included in the police report. Couple that with the fact that it is high political season, I would not be surprised if this turns into a scaled down version of the Cosby Chronicles.

They planned accordingly during travel.

[autumnh]

AKA "the last episode ever."

 

We can only hope! ugh

[Ljohnson1987]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/josh-duggar-makes-joke-about-dating-siblings-in-old-19-kids-clip-2015255

 

Smuggar jokes about siblings dating.

[truthtalk2014]

Um, I'm hoping you mean because Josh is fully forgiven and redeemed in Gothard's world, and not implying any similarities between TFDW's (suspected) issues and Josh's? (Genuinely hoping and assuming, but reading it really startled me as a comparison!)

Absolutely not implying the TFDW has any issues that Josh does.  Only snarking on the two of them and their always present love fest.