Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I feel like the realities of marriage and adulthood were probably a very rude awakening for all the Duggar kids. (And to be fair, it tends to be a rude awakening to some extent for everyone.) I do think Jill perhaps struggled with her identity the most in some ways since a big part of her self-identification before she married was her being a midwife and she seems to have been disabused of that pretty strongly. (And I'd argue that was for the best. Even beyond the mediocre training and experience she had, I do not think she had the personality to do that work safely and effectively.) And it wouldn't surprise me if that was very hard for her to handle. She also seemed to really struggle with the realities of being a missionary, so I am assuming that was another hit to the way she saw herself early in the marriage. 

With Jessa, I often wonder if her frustration is more the opposite in that it seems like she's the one who has adhered the most to her parents' roadmap--she has more kids than any of her other sisters and is still trying to generate the same hokey social media content the family did on the show. In that sense, I think of her as sticking more closely to the family brand than any of the other married sisters. But it definitely hasn't generated the same level of attention directed at her other sisters. But again we only really know what they post on social media. It is hard for me to understand a lot of the content most of these people do put up because it seems so unflattering, but ultimately it is a snapshot of just a small sliver of their day. 

I agree these are just snapshots in time, combined with what was on the show.

I don't think Jill looked at the mission (failure) as a rude awakening though. I'm guessing she figures 'that kind' of mission work was a poor fit for them. I think she still had dreams of mission work when Derick was in Mission Camp and they were fully involved with young adults through the church. I'm going to guess Jill is only now being hit with the hard reality that she is a stay-home-alone parent. Not how I think she envisioned her life with Derick.

I think Jessa was a bitchy and bossy kid, but not an unhappy kid. I think Jessa is a bitchy and bossy wife, but not an unhappy wife. I think her life now is very close to how she imagined it would be.

Edited October 15, 2022 by GeeGolly

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Jessa was a bitchy and bossy kid, but not an unhappy kid. I think Jessa is a bitchy and bossy wife, but not an unhappy wife. I think her life now is very close to how she imagined it would be.

I think this is probably true. I also think, like Michelle, Jessa doesn't really have a heart for children and I don't think her and Ben are necessarily happily married.

I think Ben thought he would have the Arkansas version of what he thinks Jeremy's life is. He'd be the hip young pastor for young adults in a large church, going out doing fun godly activities and giving wise sermons to his envious flock with his adoring wife at his side. Instead he's preaching dull sermons at a tiny church and his wife is the ultimate "whatever" person.

[lascuba]

14 hours ago, satrunrose said:

Interesting question! Jessa wasn't exactly known as the pleasant and cheery Duggar pre Ben (Free Jana's jewelry box!), but I wouldn't be surprised if the marriage has made things worse instead of better.

I wonder what kind of guy would have been good for Jessa if she had a do over. I can't see "Sure, my kids are border-line feral, but I'm happier than you 'cause Jesauce, so there!" Jessa being happy with the condescending and oh-so-carefully-curated Jeremy (I don't think there's a meek bone in Jessa's body). Some of the anger and passive aggressive tendencies make Derrick a better (but not very healthy) match and I expect the education gap would be a thorn in both their sides. Austin might work, but Jessa's not outdoorsy like Joy, so probably not. I dunno, maybe she should have waited for Timcel Rod. 

I can't think of any male fundie that would have been any better for Jessa than Ben, as abysmal a match as I think that is. Jessa's instinct about a laid back guy was probably a good one, but that needs to be balanced with an actual spine and ability to communicate when he disagrees with her without pulling the headship card. Which might actually be Austin, now that I think about it more. 

The problem with Jessa trying to emulate her parent's dynamic is that she lack's Michelle ability to convincingly  simper adoringly at her husband to keep him sweet and malleable. I do think JB genuinely adores Michelle, and while I wouldn't say Michelle fakes her feelings for him, she's very much the, "the man might be the head, but the woman is the neck" type.  Jessa seems to have believed the hype of her parents' "love story" and thought that type of marriage could happen organically. 

[lascuba]

8 hours ago, Nysha said:

I think this is probably true. I also think, like Michelle, Jessa doesn't really have a heart for children and I don't think her and Ben are necessarily happily married.

I think Ben thought he would have the Arkansas version of what he thinks Jeremy's life is. He'd be the hip young pastor for young adults in a large church, going out doing fun godly activities and giving wise sermons to his envious flock with his adoring wife at his side. Instead he's preaching dull sermons at a tiny church and his wife is the ultimate "whatever" person.

I have to wonder just how  much the constraints of the show  affected Ben specifically. Derick bluntly stated that he was angry at what he felt was JB's hypocrisy in letting TLC dictate what they could say on the show. Ben, who dreamed of being a preacher and no doubt saw his marriage to Jessa as a launching pad, no doubt felt the same. Ben was so obviously angry during the first Counting On episodes, and I don't think it was at Josh so much as his shattered dreams and the lying they were all doing for the cameras. Like when Jessa told him not to refer to him watching the kids as babysitting because he's their father. The look on his face screamed, "Since when is that a thing we believe? You asked me to babysit just yesterday!"

[GeeGolly]

To be fair, marrying Jessa likely increased any slight, slim to no chance Ben had at being a hip preacher, because lets face it, the dude ain't hip. He's not hip in AR and he wouldn't be hip in CA.

Walking out his front door, across his concrete front yard, to his church is about as close as it gets for Ben and his Amish Fundy paradise.

[FizzyPuff]

11 hours ago, lascuba said:

I can't think of any male fundie that would have been any better for Jessa than Ben, as abysmal a match as I think that is. Jessa's instinct about a laid back guy was probably a good one, but that needs to be balanced with an actual spine and ability to communicate when he disagrees with her without pulling the headship card. Which might actually be Austin, now that I think about it more. 

The problem with Jessa trying to emulate her parent's dynamic is that she lack's Michelle ability to convincingly  simper adoringly at her husband to keep him sweet and malleable. I do think JB genuinely adores Michelle, and while I wouldn't say Michelle fakes her feelings for him, she's very much the, "the man might be the head, but the woman is the neck" type.  Jessa seems to have believed the hype of her parents' "love story" and thought that type of marriage could happen organically. 

I could Imagine Jessa with John Webster , Alyssa (Bates) husband he seems perfectly laid back but also has no problem putting his foot down. However I do think John & Alyssa are a good match someone like John would’ve been a more balanced marriage for Jessa.

[Lady Whistleup]

In an alternate universe where women weren't so contained in the things they could do, I could see Jessa flipping houses with Austin. She has no aesthetic sense so her efforts at interior decorating are awful, but I bet she could rip out a faucet and install a new one with no problems.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

rip out a faucet and install a new one with no problems.

Jessa seems way too lazy to do this, at least to me. 

[Salacious Kitty]

33 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

In an alternate universe where women weren't so contained in the things they could do, I could see Jessa flipping houses with Austin. She has no aesthetic sense so her efforts at interior decorating are awful, but I bet she could rip out a faucet and install a new one with no problems.

Jessa had to call in Jana to install their faucet.

[lascuba]

33 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

In an alternate universe where women weren't so contained in the things they could do, I could see Jessa flipping houses with Austin. She has no aesthetic sense so her efforts at interior decorating are awful, but I bet she could rip out a faucet and install a new one with no problems.

I can also see her perfectly happy to have him go off hunting with his friends while she does what she wants at home. She's not outdoorsy but she also isn't the type to need to be attached at the hip to her husband. 

[oliviabenson]

Sadly for Ben he doesn’t have talent to be a rapper either. Or a rap preacher. Womp womp. 

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

I can also see her perfectly happy to have him go off hunting with his friends while she does what she wants at home. She's not outdoorsy but she also isn't the type to need to be attached at the hip to her husband. 

But hasn’t she always been? 

[lascuba]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

But hasn’t she always been? 

What, attached at the hip to Ben? Only because of proximity, I think. I know early on she liked to bring him along to public appearances because of some combo of her own insecurity and the need to feed his ego/give his "career" a boost, but overall I can't imagine her feeling sad or lonely like Jill when her husband isn't with her all day.

[cmr2014]

On 10/16/2022 at 12:30 AM, lascuba said:

I can't think of any male fundie that would have been any better for Jessa than Ben, as abysmal a match as I think that is. Jessa's instinct about a laid back guy was probably a good one, but that needs to be balanced with an actual spine and ability to communicate when he disagrees with her without pulling the headship card. Which might actually be Austin, now that I think about it more. 

The problem with Jessa trying to emulate her parent's dynamic is that she lack's Michelle ability to convincingly  simper adoringly at her husband to keep him sweet and malleable. I do think JB genuinely adores Michelle, and while I wouldn't say Michelle fakes her feelings for him, she's very much the, "the man might be the head, but the woman is the neck" type.  Jessa seems to have believed the hype of her parents' "love story" and thought that type of marriage could happen organically. 

I think that Jessa's emtions (like any of ours) are complicated. I think that all of the kidults (and probably all of the kids, really) have a desperate need for affection and attention both because they got none as children and also because I think it's a family trait (see JB and Amy).

I think she desires intimacy and warm as much as anyone, but also pushes it away because she's deeply fearful -- a combination of the insecure tattling culture of her home, and her own emotional fragility.

They have all been told a lot of magical stories about marriage within the cult, and I agree that Jessa and Jill in particular had their parents' marriage as a model and expected their husbands to model themselves after JB. I don't think it occurred to either of them that their husbands had their own fathers, and their own family history, and their own role models.

Ben, also, was engaged in magical thinking and simply projected a lot of personaility traits onto Jessa that she simply didn't have.

I don't think there's anyone out there who would have been a better match for Jessa (or Ben). Their problems are within themselves, and they both would benefit from individual, and couples, therapy.

[andromeda331]

On 10/15/2022 at 1:29 PM, GeeGolly said:

I agree these are just snapshots in time, combined with what was on the show.

I don't think Jill looked at the mission (failure) as a rude awakening though. I'm guessing she figures 'that kind' of mission work was a poor fit for them. I think she still had dreams of mission work when Derick was in Mission Camp and they were fully involved with young adults through the church. I'm going to guess Jill is only now being hit with the hard reality that she is a stay-home-alone parent. Not how I think she envisioned her life with Derick.

I Jill got hit hard with realities of life more then any of her siblings and most of it was due to her parents and their stupid lifestyle which Jill completely believed in. She was their biggest believer/supporter. She wanted to be midwife. But she was educated by that stupid Theresa who had no business being a midwife herself let alone training anyone because of her incompetent. Jill lost all of her hours of training because of another one of Theresa's screw ups.

Jill imagined marriage and children would be the perfect fundie fairytale and be the next Michelle. Giving interviews and someone else taking  care of her kids. That didn't happen. She was clinging to Derick because she had never been alone before and didn't know how to handle it. Instead of the perfect births. Two births went wrong while we don't know what happened with Sam. Israel's was mostly due to Jill's and her midwife's incompetent.

Jill thought she wanted to be a missionary but her parents' version not Derick's of living for months at a time away from home. She ended up not doing much of anything except being afraid in Central America. She was also unable to qualify for the missionary she and Derick wanted to because of her crappy education. Problems in their marriage were due to both thinking they were getting something different which they could have talked about had they dated like an normal couple instead of the stupid courting rules and always having a sibling or parent tagging along. 

She also had no sisters or anyone to pass off the taking care of Israel like her mother had always been able to and taking care of her buddies did not prepare her for it.  Everything went wrong for her and it was all the fault of her parents'. Even her molestation getting coming out was her parents' fault had they followed the real rules her brother would have gotten help and treatment but the records would have been sealed. She also would have gotten therapy which she really needed. Its really not surprising that she finally broke from her parents.  I don't think any of her siblings had that happen to them which is probably why they haven't made any break.

[GeeGolly]

IMO, Jill has never broken away from her parents. Derick went after JB and TLC for Jill's back pay which very much complicated Jill's relationship with JB & M. But it seems more so with JB as Michelle just spent a week at Jill and Derick's to help out after Freddie's birth and Jill's gallbladder surgery.

Long after JB told Jill & Derick they needed permission to visit the TTH they did to videos saying the very much agreed with the way she was raised and are planning on raising the boys with the same beliefs and many of the same rules. Just last year she posted a short reel of the boys practicing instant obedience.

I think all the sisters had little (and big) reality moments here and there including loneliness, complications with childbirth, housewifing and such, because they were all raised the same.

[BigBingerBro]

[ozziemom]

Jessa, just stop with the sayings of those poor kids! They’re not cute.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, ozziemom said:

Jessa, just stop with the sayings of those poor kids! They’re not cute.

They’re not even real. 

[Joan of Argh]

21 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Maybe Jessa should apply Spurgeons lesson about “loving your enemies” to the people she blocks on social media.

This sounds like more BS from the mind of Jessa trying to make Spurgeon sound like a wise old biblical scholar. 🙄

Does Jessa ever attribute any of these “sayings” to Ivy or is it only the boys who are clever enough to supposedly come up with this nonsense?

[GeeGolly]

Does Jessa ever stop and think about what she's teaching her young kids? It seems Spurge sizes up everything from bees to waitresses. Beings that can possibly hurt him are enemies and folks who are nice only want something from him.

I'm so glad my kids at that age were just hopping and bopping along wondering things like, can lambs deliver mail and if I tape enough things together can I turn off my light from my bed, and thinking things like, bees are our friends, and I hope the nice waitress gives me extra gummies for my ice cream.

Edited October 22, 2022 by GeeGolly

[Portia]

Most of Jessa's "charming" anecdotes seem to involve the boys throwing scripture in people's faces and being judgmental little shits. The family must be so proud.

[satrunrose]

5 hours ago, Portia said:

Most of Jessa's "charming" anecdotes seem to involve the boys throwing scripture in people's faces and being judgmental little shits. The family must be so proud.

Like mother (and father), like sons.

[Lady Whistleup]

Jessa seems to think of Spurge as a breakout star. He always gets the most "sayings" mentioned. 

[madpsych78]

I mean, the boys happen to be older than the girls in this family so I don't expect Ivy to be as verbally fluent as Spurge yet (although her communication skills appear to be advanced for her age). We'll see in a few years if Ivy's sayings are as judgmental as Spurgeon's. It does seem like his are the most annoying, even more than Henry's.

[Salacious Kitty]

I want to know why Jessa is teaching young children that they have enemies in the first place? I know, I know, it's Jessa, but it's still so wrong.

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I want to know why Jessa is teaching young children that they have enemies in the first place? I know, I know, it's Jessa, but it's still so wrong.

Exactly. Enemies???

Edited October 22, 2022 by Cinnabon

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I want to know why Jessa is teaching young children that they have enemies in the first place? I know, I know, it's Jessa, but it's still so wrong.

Because IMO, the Bible is not a kid friendly book.

[crazycatlady58]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Because IMO, the Bible is not a kid friendly book.

That depends on what you focus on.

[Minivanessa]

All this time since the Seewalds had the first kid an gave him that name, I kept thinking the name was not new to me. Today I am visiting in the small Oklahoma town where we lived when I was a child. We moved away when I was 11 years old. I was driving around town looking at houses from my childhood when I took a second look at the name of a street I must have seen a zillion times. Yep.

[LilJen]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:19 PM, Nysha said:

the ultimate "whatever" person.

Something we can all aspire to!!!

[Lady Whistleup]

Jessa is banging on about Christian Healthcare Ministries again:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkMBZcTjHSI/

Quote

Ben and I have been members of Christian Healthcare Ministries for 8 years now, and here are a few of the things we love most:

1). Biblical model— allows Christians from all 50 states to come together and help to “bear one another’s burdens” (Gal. 6:2).
2). No doctor networks, which means we can see the provider of our choice so long as they accept self-pay.
3). Budget-friendly option for large families because all of your kids (whether you have 1 or 10) are considered as 1 unit— so our family only pays for 3 units total.

As you are thinking over your healthcare options for next year, I highly recommend you look into CHM as a biblical, budget-friendly option to satisfy your healthcare expenses.

If you’re interested in learning more, you can click the link in my bio for a free information packet!

[Notabug]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Jessa is banging on about Christian Healthcare Ministries again:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkMBZcTjHSI/

I guess her first post must've generated some interest, so they hired her to do another one.

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

I guess her first post must've generated some interest, so they hired her to do another one.

Or perhaps she's one-upping Jinger who recently posted about CHM.

[GeeGolly]

I didn't have the volume on, but does anyone know what happened to Spurge? In Jessa's pitch for the health cost sharing, he's show on an ambulance stretcher, in the hospital and getting an MRI.

[ginger90]

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't have the volume on, but does anyone know what happened to Spurge? In Jessa's pitch for the health cost sharing, he's show on an ambulance stretcher, in the hospital and getting an MRI.

I could hear the video, but no visual loaded. She didn’t say anything about it.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, ginger90 said:

I could hear the video, but no visual loaded. She didn’t say anything about it.

Very curious. Covid? A bad fall?

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Jessa is banging on about Christian Healthcare Ministries again:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkMBZcTjHSI/

That “biblical” model sounds familiar. . . ! 🤣 And also much like most insurance networks. They can see any doctor they want - as long as they take self pay. 🤦‍♀️ And how many do, Jessa?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Cinnabon

[GeeGolly]

[SMama]

I’m shocked Jessa didn’t exploit the hospital visit and MRI for profit on YouTube. Whatever Spurgeon did he probably did it the Duggar way, a little bit differently. JK, poor kid, I better than most know what is like to lose the parental lottery. Thank goddess for able, willing, and sane grandparents (in my case). 

[BetyBee]

Maybe Jessa did the ad sponsorship again in order to be certain that  Spurgeon's hospital visit was covered by this arbitrary "insurance". Though I would imagine that due to her followers, her medical costs are always covered. And that's probably not the case with "lesser" Christians.

[SMama]

8 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Maybe Jessa did the ad sponsorship again in order to be certain that  Spurgeon's hospital visit was covered by this arbitrary "insurance". Though I would imagine that due to her followers, her medical costs are always covered. And that's probably not the case with "lesser" Christians.

This is what bothers be about their disingenuous shilling. Josie and family, Jinger and family, and Jessa and family are prominent fundies. Do nobodies like the Rods get their medical bills covered 100%? Especially pregnancy, since they have so many? 
 

I have had more MRIs than I care to remember (having another one next week) and those things are expensive. So when a prominent fundie has the misfortune of needing one they are covered. The same with their many births. How do these families come up with the money for the MRI in the first place until they are reimbursed?  I understand they don’t control who is reimbursed but their as long as I get mine attitude is not very Christian. 

[Absolom]

Not to quibble too much, but that looks more like a CT than a MRI to me.  Either way it isn't cheap.  Just what the kid needs photos instead of comfort.  Jessa is Michelle round two after all.  

[ginger90]

We’re both boys in the hospital pictures, or just Spurgeon?

[CherryMalotte]

I wonder if those pictures are staged in some way, though I don't know what health care provider would agree to do that.  If my child was in an accident or had an emergent illness and was on a stretcher I'm not taking time to take pictures...

[Salacious Kitty]

Poor Spurge probably fell off a chair perched precariously on a piano stool. 

[crazycatlady58]

33 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

I wonder if those pictures are staged in some way, though I don't know what health care provider would agree to do that.  If my child was in an accident or had an emergent illness and was on a stretcher I'm not taking time to take pictures...

Yes, but you were not raised by Michelle Dugger who recorded her son after he fell into an orchestra pit while he was being checked out by EMTs and laughing the entire time. 

[Notabug]

49 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Yes, but you were not raised by Michelle Dugger who recorded her son after he fell into an orchestra pit while he was being checked out by EMTs and laughing the entire time. 

Not to mention the fact that the poor kid had a very obvious broken arm.

I presume Jessa posted these photos without explanation in hopes that her fans would flock to social media begging her for the details so she can drag it out over several days.

Poor Spurge.  The first picture looks like he has an IV and the monitors and such are typical of the sort that the EMS would use.  And there's his mother, poor kid is hurt and probably terrified and all she can think to do is snap some pictures.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

We’re both boys in the hospital pictures, or just Spurgeon?

Just Spurge.

@Absolom - yes - CT.

[Lady Whistleup]

I kind of hate the subtext of these sorts of organizations, which is that it's somehow unChristian to get actual health insurance. I have never gotten this particular line of thinking. At all.