The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Temperance]

13 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Remember Jinger's upbringing.  The laundry room breakdown happened when Jing was a preschooler.  She probably doesn't remember a time when her mother showed any interest in a child over 6 months of age.  What she did see was her mother having plenty of time every day to exercise and drink Starbucks while someone else cared for her children.  I could see Jinger thinking that taking care of her child's daily needs is not her responsibility and that having someone else around to handle the mundane stuff is her right as a mother.  I suspect Jessa's kids spend a goodly portion of their time under the supervision of their aunts at the TTH.

I think that Jill and Joy perhaps do take care of their own kids the vast majority of the time these days, but I think they weren't raised to think that this was their job.

Actually the laundry room breakdown happened when Joe was a baby. Joe/Joseph and Jinger are the second closest in age siblings besides Jordyn and Josie (Josie was premature; Joe wasn't 4 months early). Jinger and Joe are 13 months apart. She was between a year old and 2 years old when the laundry room breakdown happened (not even in preschool yet). 

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Actually the laundry room breakdown happened when Joe was a baby. Joe/Joseph and Jinger are the second closest in age siblings besides Jordyn and Josie (Josie was premature; Joe wasn't 4 months early). Jinger and Joe are 13 months apart. She was between a year old and 2 years old when the laundry room breakdown happened (not even in preschool yet). 

Thanks, I knew somebody would know the age she was; which actually serves to prove my point that Jinger never had a hands-on mom and I could see her thinking that it is perfectly fine to hand her offspring off to someone else for huge periods of time even if she is not working outside the home or otherwise engaged in important activities.  After all, if the world's best, most godly, mom could hand over her kids to their older sisters; why couldn't Jinger hand her baby over to a young woman to do the day to day work?

[Westiepeach]

6 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Actually the laundry room breakdown happened when Joe was a baby. Joe/Joseph and Jinger are the second closest in age siblings besides Jordyn and Josie (Josie was premature; Joe wasn't 4 months early). Jinger and Joe are 13 months apart. She was between a year old and 2 years old when the laundry room breakdown happened (not even in preschool yet). 

But, taking their education into account, aren’t they ALL pre-schoolers???

[GeeGolly]

The kids were all young when Michelle lost it. All she got out of that breakdown was a laundry helper. It was a few more years before she starting handing babies off at 6 months.

[QuinnInND]

Spare me.  The only anxiety you've got is whether or not you're posting enough vapid pictures. 

[doodlebug]

18 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The kids were all young when Michelle lost it. All she got out of that breakdown was a laundry helper. It was a few more years before she starting handing babies off at 6 months.

Even if it was a few more years, Jinger probably cannot recall a time when her mother didn't delegate the majority of child care to others.

14 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

Spare me.  The only anxiety you've got is whether or not you're posting enough vapid pictures. 

I realize she's pregnant and possibly still battling morning sickness, but she really doesn't look very good in that photo.  Not sure I'd use that one to advertise my Jesus-y podcast.

[galaxychaser]

Wow she needs to wear a hat the hair is baaaaad.

[DangerousMinds]

How dare she recommend that people with anxiety just pray it away? STFU Jinger.

[Oldernowiser]

In my fantasies she looks at RFP, with his phone in hand, rolls back over, puts a pillow over her head, says, “look, I feel like shit, I look like death and I am NOT dressing up and putting on makeup just so you can take pictures. Get a life. Get a job. At the very least, go take care of Publicity. Now fuck off.”

[Westiepeach]

6 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

In my fantasies she looks at RFP, with his phone in hand, rolls back over, puts a pillow over her head, says, “look, I feel like shit, I look like death and I am NOT dressing up and putting on makeup just so you can take pictures. Get a life. Get a job. At the very least, go take care of Publicity. Now fuck off.”

Except RFP doesn't even take the stupid pictures. Their professional photographer does...

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

Wow she needs to wear a hat the hair is baaaaad.

I'm pretty sure it's a style.

And, actually, to me this one looks like a style, unlike the one with her hair down from a few days ago, which did just look to me like an accidental mess, especially the big bump of hair that she had on the top of her head on the right side.....I actually think this one's kind of cute! 😲😷  Picture looks too much like a stock photo to me, of course. But, still....don't really hate the hair....

https://beautifieddesigns.com/messy-hairstyles/

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[BradandJanet]

Can't they find a photo that has some connection to the message in the post? What does looking over your shoulder and smiling while wearing a new dress have to do with worry, anxiety, and prayer? 

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

How dare she recommend that people with anxiety just pray it away? STFU Jinger.

This is pretty much out of the MacArthur playbook, I think..........

Anybody who seeks help or commiseration for any problem or issue from human sources -- or feels they might need those things -- is immediately told that basically every complaint that any human has is due to the fact that they aren't fervent enough in their faith in Jesus.

And if you're seeking psychiatric help or protesting to change laws you think are unjust, or any such activity, what you're really proving is that you, personally, aren't being adequately faithful to Jesus. Because if you are being adequately faithful to Jesus, then a) things are going well for you and b) you're so focused on Jesus that you never even notice the petty things like anxiety or racism that you complain of....

Of course, I'm 100-percent certain that none of this is believed to apply when it's MacArthur or his minions who feel they have a grievance or difficulty. Then, I'd guess, the problem is a result of Satan (and his human tools...) choosing to come after you because of your extreme holiness and prominence among Jesus's warriors.  😈

I will say this: These two do keep hammering on the same theology. Jer knows the party line and sticks to it. And has made sure Jingle knows and regularly spouts it, too, looks like. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

Well shit. Thankful prayer cures anxiety. Six years of school, 30+ years of experience as a therapist and I never learned that.  And 40 million Americans are either not praying thankfully or are not praying at all. 🤦‍♀️

[GeeGolly]

Oh, I forgot to say, fuck-you Jinger, fuck-you.

[Zella]

35 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

This is pretty much out of the MacArthur playbook, I think..........

Anybody who seeks or commiseration for any problem or issue from human sources -- or feels they might need those things -- is immediately told that basically every complaint that any human has is that they aren't fervent enough in their faith in Jesus.

And if you're seeking psychiatric help or protesting to change laws you think are unfair, or any such activity, what you're really proving is that you, personally, aren't being adequately faithful to Jesus. Because if you are being adequately faithful to Jesus, then a) things are going well for you and b) you're so focused on Jesus that you never even notice the petty things like anxiety or racism that you complain of....

Of course, I'm 100-percent certain that none of this is believed to apply when it's MacArthur or his minions who feel they have a grievance. Then, I'd guess, the grievance is a result of Satan (and his human tools...) choosing to come after you because of your extreme holiness and prominence among Jesus's warriors.  😈

I will say this: These two do keep hammering on the same theology. Jer knows the party line and sticks to it. And has made sure Jingle knows and regularly spouts it, too, looks like. 

And it's a pretty common belief even outside of MacArthur's specific circle, too. I think I've mentioned on here before that I once worked for a Christian company that was overrun with fundie evangelicals, and we got on the subject of depression one day. There were quite a few of us there who'd battled it and when we volunteered that in the discussion, things took a weird turn. The person asking the questions was actually not an awful person--in many ways I actually quite liked her as a person--but she was ignorant and sheltered and could not wrap her head around the idea that someone could be an active (and faithful) Christian and have depression. She kept asking things like, "Was this before you were a believer?" and seemed quite surprised that depression isn't limited to heathens. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Zella

[Normades]

Dear @GeeGolly THANK YOU!! 

As someone who battles anxiety and depression.  I just can't deal with their BS.  It really burns me up!!

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

And it's a pretty common belief even outside of MacArthur's specific circle, too. I think I've mentioned on here before that I once worked for a Christian company that was overrun with fundie evangelicals, and we got on the subject of depression one day. There were quite a few of us there who'd battled it and when we volunteered that in the discussion, things took a weird turn. The person asking the questions was actually not an awful person--in many ways I actually quite liked her as a person--but she was ignorant and sheltered and could not wrap her head around the idea that someone could be an active (and faithful) Christian and have depression. She kept asking things like, "Was this before you were a believer?" and seemed quite surprised that depression isn't limited to heathens. 

Yep, definitely. JM is definitely not the only one. 

If somebody preaches this, I can only assume that they themselves have lived very lucky lives and have little to no empathy with other people......Or they're in deep denial of some kind. Because it seems both really ignorant concerning the human condition.....and cruel. Something only the very arrogant and self-satisfied could really go around pushing on people. 

Jer has enthusiastically signed up for all this and clearly tailors all his related statements to stay in line with this evil crap. So I'm inclined to think that his lack of empathy is pretty much a given.

He's not some innocent who doesn't know what he's preaching. He knows -- or else everything he says wouldn't be in line with it, and it is.....nothing truly empathetic ever creeps in, which increasingly horrifies me as I see it go on and on and on. I used to think maybe he was just a dumbass who doesn't see the implications of this -- and I do think that there are probably MacArthur hangers-on who do fall into this category. But Jer's stuff is so consistently constructed to toe the line on this that I conclude he is a dumbass but also really really not a nice person (albeit one who might possibly sometime somewhere change to at least some extent if he ever stopped being so dang lucky himself...A lucky life sets people up for believing this "theology," certainly.)

MacArthur faced a lawsuit stemming from this in the '80s, though it was ultimately thrown out. He pretended he's regrouped, but to my eye he still says exactly the same stuff. It's an 1988 case that was argued in the California Supreme Court -- Nally v. Grace Community Church. And the court ended up dismissing it because they decided the law didn't require clergy to have exactly the same duties of care and so on that doctors and therapists and the like have, even when clergy offered supposed counseling The case is horrific, so it's best not to read it! But it does demonstrate the callousness of JM's regime and his "thinking.." Which Jer embraces fully, as far as I can see.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Turquoise]

On 6/27/2020 at 6:18 PM, DangerousMinds said:

I am truly bewildered by this one. Wtf?

Then Jing should be saying "My eyes are up here", because he appears to be taking a peek down the front of her blouse...

[galaxychaser]

Or she asked him do I have a booger in my nose?

[ginger90]

I can appreciate this comment on the anxiety post:

Edited June 29, 2020 by ginger90

[Sew Sumi]

That post won't last long. That or the  leghumpers will jump down her throat. 😔

[Westiepeach]

Man, my dislike for them just gets greater and greater. The “come hither over the shoulder” photo 🙄 along with the “praying away depression” 🤬 post really, really annoys the living crap out of me. I may need a moratorium from these two idiots. Sheesh.

[galaxychaser]

I’m starting to hate the Vuolos more than Smuggar and ofsmuggar. What tools and fools.

Edited June 29, 2020 by galaxychaser

[wilsie]

"Sure, faithless, empty praying never does anything for you, but faithful, meaningful prayer can do way more than you clearly think. The Bible is full of verses on the power of prayer. Now, you might pray to God for Him to take away your mental illness and He might not just simply make it go away, but He might show you what you need to do to get it cured eventually. Either way, prayer is definitely the best place to start and the best thing to continue to do until your prayer is finally answered, in one form or another."  Needs to be the right kind of prayer from the right kind of Christian.  Even the humpers are pretentious.

 

[Sew Sumi]

Fuck Jinger and fuck the leghumpers. My husband and I can't pray away our GAD. I had to find suitable doctors, and I did it without a single prayer or meditative bible verse.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[BigBingerBro]

Jinger's idea of anxiety is probably how she feels when Jermy is 5 minutes late coming home from the seminary.  So easy to pray that away.  

[Sew Sumi]

3 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Jinger's idea of anxiety is probably how she feels when Jermy is 5 minutes late coming home from the seminary.  So easy to pray that away.  

Or what she's going to make for dinner. Oh no, I don't have any cilantro! 

[JoanArc]

 

23 minutes ago, wilsie said:

Now, you might pray to God for Him to take away your mental illness and He might not just simply make it go away, but He might show you what you need to do to get it cured eventually. Either way, prayer is definitely the best place to start and the best thing to continue to do until your prayer is finally answered, in one form or another."

What the F? God may decide just to torture you a bit and never take away the mental illness. He might answer your prayer, or not, whatever, I have a photo shoot to get to, and this latte is not gonna refill itself. 

FWIW I can sympathize with those of you that have anxiety. I used to be a much more anxious person,  but it sharply faded and disappeared as I aged into my 40s and 50s.  Partly maturational, partly life experience, mostly realizing that other people are not scrutinizing me, thinking about me, or really give much of a shit, and that life is for living while I have the chance. Oh, and I did exactly zero amount of praying to make it better, as I am atheist/agnostic. 

I’m so pleased these two losers are going to fall flat on their perfectly curated faces.

[Suzn]

48 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 

What the F? God may decide just to torture you a bit and never take away the mental illness. He might answer your prayer, or not, whatever, I have a photo shoot to get to, and this latte is not gonna refill itself. 

FWIW I can sympathize with those of you that have anxiety. I used to be a much more anxious person,  but it sharply faded and disappeared as I aged into my 40s and 50s.  Partly maturational, partly life experience, mostly realizing that other people are not scrutinizing me, thinking about me, or really give much of a shit, and that life is for living while I have the chance. Oh, and I did exactly zero amount of praying to make it better, as I am atheist/agnostic. 

I’m so pleased these two losers are going to fall flat on their perfectly curated faces.

Very freeing, isn't it?😉

[Sew Sumi]

Damage control? 

 

[galaxygirl76]

Yep, bring out the cute kid for damage control.

[JoanArc]

49 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Very freeing, isn't it?😉

That is all not to say that I don’t have anxiety, or allow myself to be bullied now, but letting go of things really helps. No prayer needed. They say that you make mistakes in the 20s, pay for them in your 30s, and start to live in your 40s, and it was definitely true in my case. These sad sacks on even done with their 20s!

 

20 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Yep, bring out the cute kid for damage control.

If only they had a cute kid.

[satrunrose]

Gah! The Duggalos! Perfectly par for the course in that they are delivering a message that can be actually harmful to some in the shallowest and dullest way possible. There are a ton of religious leaders out there encouraging believers to have faith and trust in God through this in ways that are actually comforting and reassuring. Heck, even this nominally-mainline-protestant-but-really-mostly-agnostic did some serious praying around Easter (I figured it couldn't hurt). I just wonder, can't they show even a shred of empathy? Sure, the Bible says to rejoice greatly, but it also says "Blessed are they that mourn." "To everything there is a season...a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to embrace and a time to refrain,".

[DangerousMinds]

33 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Yep, bring out the cute kid for damage control.

Kid is no longer that cute and Jinger now looks smug in every picture.

[galaxychaser]

Smuggar 2.0 

[Snow Fairy]

Who sends that kind of pictures to their spouse just like that? Oh come on

[Totally]

I thought I was the only one seeing smugness oozing from Jin

[Lisa418722]

21 minutes ago, Totally said:

I thought I was the only one seeing smugness oozing from Jin

I used to like her and had hopes when she moved to Texas and then to LA. But she is smugger than Josh now.  

[Churchhoney]

Jingle's following her leader, the way she's supposed to as a devout "Christian wife," when it comes to smugness.

Jer's positively radiated smugness ever since he came on the scene. And he seems to be living a charmed life, too, which can only make it worse. (Plus, now he models himself on hideously -- successfully -- smug John MacArthur.) 

And before Jer, Jingle's assigned leader was JB, also as smug as they come.

Without some act of rebellion (Ha!) -- or at least a major reversal of fortune -- I suppose smugness is all anyone can actually expect from her. 

But....so so smug....based on literally zero accomplishment. (She's even less accomplished than her decidedly unaccomplished husband.) I do wonder how long smugness can survive that, especially when you don't have nearly as much money as you pretend and aspire to have....

Edited June 30, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Dimi1]

14 hours ago, wilsie said:

"Sure, faithless, empty praying never does anything for you, but faithful, meaningful prayer can do way more than you clearly think. The Bible is full of verses on the power of prayer. Now, you might pray to God for Him to take away your mental illness and He might not just simply make it go away, but He might show you what you need to do to get it cured eventually. Either way, prayer is definitely the best place to start and the best thing to continue to do until your prayer is finally answered, in one form or another."  Needs to be the right kind of prayer from the right kind of Christian.  Even the humpers are pretentious.

 

I agree...I had 30 yrs of diagnosed PTSD and extreme phobias and anxiety...after years of meds and no answers ..went to a faith based non - denominational program in Georgia for a week...the first night I had night terrors and woke up and the room I was in was destroyed ..I mean curtains on the floor...by the time I left at the end of the week I never had another night terror and only very very rarely get triggered to an event....I was there with one lady and she had PPD so bad she laid on the floor and at the end of the week she also walked out...My husband had asthma since age 7...after a week he walked out and has been asthma free for 8 years....they worked with Duke University and did a 3 year study on depression that was peer reviewed....the success rate was 96% cure for depression and the cure rate remained high on successive follow ups....So yeah you can pray depression away if you understand how what you feel and have experienced messes with your thoughts and your mind and beliefs...

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Dimi1 said:

I agree...I had 30 yrs of diagnosed PTSD and extreme phobias and anxiety...after years of meds and no answers ..went to a faith based non - denominational program in Georgia for a week...the first night I had night terrors and woke up and the room I was in was destroyed ..I mean curtains on the floor...by the time I left at the end of the week I never had another night terror and only very very rarely get triggered to an event....I was there with one lady and she had PPD so bad she laid on the floor and at the end of the week she also walked out...My husband had asthma since age 7...after a week he walked out and has been asthma free for 8 years....they worked with Duke University and did a 3 year study on depression that was peer reviewed....the success rate was 96% cure for depression and the cure rate remained high on successive follow ups....So yeah you can pray depression away if you understand how what you feel and have experienced messes with your thoughts and your mind and beliefs...

You attended one of the programs studied by Harold Koenig, right? And it was a non-denominational program?

I have no idea whether you would agree with the way I see this  (and, of course, you're the person with the experience -- not me....I've only read some of Koenig's work, not experienced any programs that he's researched the success of) ....But to me the difference between your experience and what I take the Vuolos to be saying is that they basically give this order: Believe in a specific Jesus -- ours -- and your problems will disappear because your problems were caused by your lack of faith, period. They weren't caused by any other issues or confusions in your mind or body, so no spiritual practice or greater understanding of self or any such thing will cure them. They'll be cured by faith in the real Jesus (ours) alone. 

Whereas, I think the programs Koenig has verified focus not on faith alone, and definitely not on the validity of one particular faith above others, but on spiritual practice/religious practice alongside gaining understanding of what's going on inside you as a means of healing.  Koenig's tested the power of spiritual practice as a means of healing in multiple religious contexts, such as Islam. And he's found it successful in many cases. And you mentioned that the program you attended was non-denominational, correct? 

So to me there's a huge difference between spiritual practices, religious practice and using those things as part of a search for understanding of self and the Vuolo/MacArthur version which, as I understand it, attributes healing solely to asserting your strong faith in one particular religious icon, Jesus as understood by Protestants/Calvinists.

Jeremy Vuolo preaches strongly against Catholicism, for example, as a satanic belief and clearly wouldn't agree that someone could heal their anxiety or depression by embracing Jesus as he's conceived of by the Catholic church. Catholics (and Muslims, Buddhists, etc., of course) are lumped with all the other nonbelievers, in his theology, and they don't get healing from their belief, according to the Vuolo/MacArthur theology, as I understand it. Only a specific belief conveys that. 

Anyway, thanks very much for sharing your experience here.  This question is definitely way more nuanced than we've been portraying it....

I don't see any appreciation of that nuance in what the Vuolos or MacArthur say, however!  I read them as promising a very specific magic pill, which alone has power. Whereas I see others -- such as those who conduct programs like Koenig has verified -- as talking about spiritual ways of living one's life and coming to an understanding of self, which occurs and can occur in multiple cultures and traditions. Mileage on all of this may vary, obviously.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Zahdii]

13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

If only they had a cute kid.

Don't be mean to Prop.  Kids go through all sorts of stages as they're growing and Felicity isn't as cute as she once was, but that can change in an instant.  Neither of her parents are really unfortunate looking, so on the surface I don't think she'll ever be considered plain or ugly.

Her biggest problem is with her parents.  They keep putting those stupid overly large bows on her head and constantly photographing her in set up situations that make them look good.  They should stop with the bows, she doesn't have enough hair to compete with the unnessary decorations they foist on her.

Little girl has some cute curls.  Let them shine.  They might go away later, so accentuate them now.  Use cute little barrets to keep her hair out of her face.  If her hair won't cooperate, cut off some hair around her face so she can see (and be seen), and let it go.

But most importantly, and I'm talking to J&J here, STOP USING YOUR CHILD AS A PROP!  Let the poor kid grow up without being used by you to advertise your money making scheme of the moment and let her be a kid.  If you have to lean on your kid(s) to make money, you're doing it wrong.  The role of a parent should be to raise their children to become fully functioning adults who have a healthy sense of who they are, what they want to do with their lives, and have the means to make that happen.  It doesn't stop there.  Parents should also instill in their children boundaries.  Don't let people take advantage of them, and don't take advantage of others.  How to ask for help and how to give it.  Empathy instead of indifference or superiority.

Jinger might not know any better, but Jeremy should.

[Dimi1]

49 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

You attended one of the programs studied by Harold Koenig, right? And it was a non-denominational program?

I have no idea whether you would agree with the way I see this  (and, of course, you're the person with the experience -- not me....I've only read some of Koenig's work, not experienced any programs....But to me the difference between your experience and what I take the Vuolos to be saying is that they basically give this order: Believe in a specific Jesus -- ours -- and your problems will disappear because your problems were caused by your lack of faith, period. They weren't caused by any other issues or confusions in your mind or body, so no spiritual practice or greater understanding of self or any such thing will cure them. They'll be cured by faith in the real Jesus (ours) alone. 

Whereas, I think the programs Koenig has verified, like the one you attended, focus not on faith alone, and definitely not on the validity of one particular faith above others, but on spiritual practice/religious practice alongside gaining understanding of what's going on inside you as a means of healing.  Koenig's tested the power of spiritual practice as a means of healing in multiple religious contexts, such as Islam. And he's found it successful in many cases. And you mentioned that the program you attended was non-denominational, correct? 

So to me there's a huge difference between spiritual practices, religious practice and using those things as part of a search for understanding of self and the Vuolo/MacArthur version which, as I understand it, attributes healing solely to asserting your strong faith in one particular religious icon, Jesus as understood by Protestants/Calvinists.

Jeremy Vuolo preaches strongly against Catholicism, for example, as a satanic belief and clearly wouldn't agree that someone could heal their anxiety or depression by embracing Jesus as he's conceived above by Catholicism. Catholics (and Muslims, Buddhists, etc., of course) are lumped with all the other nonbelievers, in his theology, and they don't get healing.

Anyway, thanks very much for sharing your experience here.  This question is definitely way more nuanced than we've been portraying it....

I don't see any appreciation of that nuance in what the Vuolos or MacArthur say, however!  I read them as promising a very specific magic pill, which alone has power. Whereas I see others -- such as those who conduct the program you attended -- as talking about spiritual ways of living one's life and coming to an understanding of self, which occurs and can occur in multiple cultures and traditions. Mileage on all of this may vary, obviously.

 

 

 

no it was not that program...

 

 

[Churchhoney]

33 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

no it was not that program...

 

 

Well, actually, I wasn't naming a specific program at all! 

I was just naming the best-known Duke researcher who studies this area, Harold Koenig! He doesn't have a program. He just studies other people's programs (many, many of them). So I wasn't describing a program -- sorry that that's unclear. I was just describing the kinds of things Koenig has researched and verified as effective and explaining why I think they're not similar to what the Vuolos are saying. 

If you don't mind my asking, do you know which Duke researcher(s) did study the program you attended? 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

There are some faith based programs that are actually evidenced based practices infused with religion. They used the same theories and coping skills as mainstream services. Much like some of the support for substance use are the same, just with a bit of change in the language used.

With that said these programs, services and supports are not known for curing illnesses, physical or mental.

Edited June 30, 2020 by GeeGolly

[Nysha]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, GeeGolly said:

Well shit. Thankful prayer cures anxiety. Six years of school, 30+ years of experience as a therapist and I never learned that.  And 40 million Americans are either not praying thankfully or are not praying at all. 🤦‍♀️

How long do you have to pray? I went to church every time the doors opened for 8 years and prayed continuously about my anxiety, didn't do a damn thing. What did help was a combination of Zoloft, Welbutrin, and therapy.

I'd say shut up Jinger, but I'm pretty sure Jeremy is writing this crap, so Shut Up Jeremy.

[Dimi1]

11 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, actually, I wasn't naming a specific program at all! 

I was just naming the best-known Duke researcher who studies this area, Harold Koenig! He doesn't have a program. He just studies other people's programs (many, many of them). So I wasn't describing a program -- sorry that that's unclear. I was just describing the kinds of things Koenig has researched and verified as effective and explaining why I think they're not similar to what the Vuolos are saying. 

If you don't mind my asking, do you know which Duke researcher(s) did study the program you attended? 

I tried to find the study in my files, but put my house on the market today...so I sent an email to the organization to find out...will let you know...

[doodlebug]

14 hours ago, Nysha said:

How long do you have to pray? I went to church every time the doors opened for 8 years and prayed continuously about my anxiety, didn't do a damn thing. What did help was a combination of Zoloft, Welbutrin, and therapy.

I'd say shut up Jinger, but I'm pretty sure Jeremy is writing this crap, so Shut Up Jeremy.

And isn't that just the message that you want to hear when you're depressed and anxious?  Yep, here's one more way in which you are failing.  One more thing you can't do right.  Jesus would be so proud to be used to shame people who are sick.

[Sew Sumi]

I could have sworn that they've posted this before. I have heard about CC's coffee before this.