S06.E10: The Winds of Winter

[DigitalCount]

"So as far as most observers can tell, there's just someone out there who can cause a huge building to explode in a horrifying conflagration at will. If that's Cersei, she ain't nothing to fuck with."

That's actually a good point. Who wants to rebel against someone who can just light you up when she feels like it? When even badmouthing her gets your head smushed by her pet zombie?

So much to take in here. Thanks to @Amarsir for identifying that music. The solidification of sides and the great culling was fantastic. We've got Jon, Cersei, Daenerys and the Night's King as the main rulers left in the game, which is not particularly surprising, but appreciated as plot movement actually seems to be occurring. Loved Cersei's Dark Lady of the Sith outfit. But it's interesting that she was so concerned with executing her masterstroke that she forgot that Tommen loves his wife. Still, she had to take a loss, given that Jon lost Rickon last week. And I guess Dany leaving behind Daario is supposed to be her counterpart to losing one's son or brother. *rolls eyes* I agree with some of the spec that Tyrion is starting to feel something for Dany; I always thought that was more likely than Jon/Dany anyway, which seems kind of basic to me.

RIP to Pycelle, Margaery, Loras, Kevan, Mace, Lancel, Big Bird, Walder Frey, and Tommen I Baratheon. Have we ever lost that many named characters in one episode? IIRC the Red Wedding only got rid of Robb, Talisa and Catelyn. This might be the most killtacular season of them all by far.

Edited June 27, 2016 by DigitalCount

[Kate87]

Re Timeline: For me, a big part of the problem has been that the (child/teen) actors are aging much faster than their storylines would suggest. I'm willing to suspend some disbelief on that front but at some point it can't be ignored. I read somewhere recently that GRRM regretted making many of the main characters so young initially and toyed with inserting a 5 year gap in the books to compensate. I'm not suggesting D & D do that but I think some indication of how much time has passed at the beginning of each season might help.

The flow also would have improved IMO if they'd shown more progress within certain storylines. Many of the scenes this season felt like rewrites of things we'd seen in past episodes (Tyrion's drinking games, Arya, etc.). My guess is that based on what some of the actors are getting paid (and comments I've seen here and on other sites), the writers are contractually required to give certain actors a certain amount of screen time each week/every other week. If that the the case, they need to work with it better. If not, perhaps front-loading certain storylines would help? I get dragging some stuff out but not when it means: episode one: introduce new plots! episodes two - eight: most plots get filler, episodes nine and ten: a bunch of shit happens really quickly.

Ultimately, something needs to be done to make the timeline less distracting. Much as I hate Dorne, Varys could have gone there a week or two ago and skipped some of the drinking/cock dialogue with Tyrion. Aya... I'm ignoring.  Finally, Sam, what's he been doing, walking to Oldtown?!? I keep forgetting he even exists. Yes, he detoured to his family seat but really, what could possibly take that long? They can't have LF and Varys teleporting everywhere while other characters move at a turtle's pace. [/rant]

 

Unrelated nitpick: Why didn't Tommen and Margaery go to the Sept together? Yes, it was a religious trail but so much was made in the past few episodes about the Faith and the crown joining together, it doesn't make sense to me that they'd start without Tommen. Moreover, the HS made a big deal about Margaery and Tommen sleeping together, I'd think they'd arrive together as king and queen. For plot purposes they couldn't but it just seems like a red flag. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Kate87

[TwistedandBored]

I see a lot of posters saying how Loras, Margaery, and Tyrell house didn't deserve this and I am like what show are you watching? 

I am sorry but a lot of people in this show who died didn't deserve to die either. Margaery and The Tyrell Family decided to enter the Game of Thrones and the game played them back tenfolds. Now just like any other house, their remaining family will try to avenge them thus continuing this great game. 

[InsertWordHere]

Regarding Varys and his travels, until told otherwise, I'm just going to assume that he met Dany's fleet at some midway point, like Volantis or Lys. He brought ships with him because he hadn't received word that Dany has her own ships now. Unless Dany stops in Valyria or another eastern port next season, I don't see any reason this can't be the case. I don't believe they showed any recognizable Meereen landmarks in the final shot. 

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, TwistedandBored said:

I see a lot of posters saying how Loras, Margaery, and Tyrell house didn't deserve this and I am like what show are you watching? 

I am sorry but a lot of people in this show who died didn't deserve to die either. Margaery and The Tyrell Family decided to enter the Game of Thrones and the game played them back tenfolds. Now just like any other house, their remaining family will try to avenge them thus continuing this great game. 

I don't care about Margaery, but I can kinda see where people are coming from on that point. All that plot Marg was involved in, and then she's just killed off like that. Her death felt the most pointless to me, in terms of a character who got a lot of screentime.

[Black Knight]

25 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I agree with all of this and yes, it was extremely satisfying to watch him get blown the fuck up. I would have loved to get the High Septon's thought process just as it dawned on him that Margaery was right.

I liked that Margaery got to shoot the High Sparrow a "you just got us all killed, you idiot" look before the wildfire blew up. Not much consolation to her, ultimately, but at least she got the look in.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

It can be pretty confusing to remember stuff like this if you're not a book reader or up on the general goss, so I can see how some people missed it. But then again Rhaegar's name has been bandied about pretty freely with regard to Lyanna, so maybe some folks just don't listen to what is being said much.

I always watch GoT with some friends and couple of weeks ago I had to remind them that Edmure was Catelyn's brother, that he married Walder Frey's daughter in Robb's place, etc et all. We read the book and we discuss the show, the regular folks don't keep track of all the details. Rhaegar was mentioned like three times in five seasons, most people don't even remember he was Aery's son or that he was married to Elia Martell, or even connects the dots between the fact he is also the same person who supposedly kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark and was Danaerys' brother. FWIW, I think the show could have used a flashback episode or some trick to tell the whole story, a la Jamie telling Brienne how and why he killed the Mad King.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Raachel2008

[slf]

12 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

I see a lot of posters saying how Loras, Margaery, and Tyrell house didn't deserve this and I am like what show are you watching? 

I am sorry but a lot of people in this show who died didn't deserve to die either. 

Okay? And when those characters died people said they didn't deserve it either. People generally prefer those they consider good to survive or win. ASOIAF/GOT isn't about slaughtering characters, it's a hopeful series ultimately, so it's not pointless to hope for a good ending for your fav character. 

The Tyrells are a Great House. They were always going to be dragged into this. They chose to be proactive and were seen by many fans as having good hearts. And so some fans wish Margaery and Loras (who was the series' only surviving gay character that I'm aware of) had gotten better endings.

[GreyBunny]

I enjoyed this episode more than last week's. I feel bad for the Tyrells but damn I cheered when that sept blew up. Good riddance to the Sparrow and his culties. Sometimes you just gotta kill it with fire.

Cersei isn't going to be there long but she looked awesome on that throne. Loved how all of the women wore badass black. 

R+L=J finally!

Jon's King in the North, hooray, but really Lyanna Mormont should be the Queen of Everything.  Girl is every bit as good as Davos at giving a motivating speech.  

Bye Mel, you served your purpose.  I hope she meets the business end of Needle in short order.  Mel did say she'd see Arya again.

Oldtown!  Sam died and went to Sam Heaven with all of those books.  

Bonus points to Olenna for shutting up those awful Sand Snakes. Needed to happen a long time ago.

It was so nice of Littlefinger to let Varys borrow his teleporter. I wonder if it's bigger on the inside.  I'm sure it took a long time to paint those Targaryen sails (btw I saw some Martell and Tyrell ships in that fleet) and get the Second Sons set up to keep order in Meereen.

Edited June 27, 2016 by GreyBunny

[AnnaMayWong]

...? Oh!  The Winter outside be not delightful. The Long Night e'er frightful. And, thus we have made it so...Let it Sn♥w, let it Sn♥w, let it Sn♥w. ?                                                                ...Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of goodbye. 'A Girl' bore through B. Walder and Lothor Frey so they could be baked into a pie. And, when the pie was opened, Arya's blade began to sing,  ?Wasn't that a righteous STARK dish to set before a self-imagined would-be king❓?                

Edited June 27, 2016 by BookElitist
Wal[th]er? Wal[d]er?

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

Even though Cersei is not too subtly now an eeevil! Disney queen - with added incest - I did appreciate her taking out the pious high sparrow. I loathed that fucker for every second he was on screen.

I can't get to worked over him dying, because the Tyrells and Kevan, the one Lannister that didn't completely suck, were taken with him. Plus I rather would have had Olenna take him out rather than the bitch Cersei that put him in power in the first place. High Sparrow reminded of how Bill Burr described Lance Armstrong: a sociopath, but a benign and even helpful one if in the right place. Lance is better off as a roided up cyclist (which didn't even matter because everyone else was roided up anyways) who raises money for cancer research instead of running some corporation, poisoning the water supply. High Sparrow would have done well was kept feeding peasants in the slums and occasionally whipping some overindulgent High Speton than someone with any real power. 

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I loved that scene, but I wonder about future implications. The Northern lords were supporting Jon because "the blood of Ned Stark runs through his veins." But what happens if they find out he's not Ned's son but Lyanna Stark's -- and his dad was a Targaryen?

That will be when he'll need his cousin's hand in marriage to solidify his claim. Between the discussion of who gets the master bedroom (resolution: share it as a married couple), getting back to a good place complete with a forehead kiss and Sansa supporting Jon as King its only matter of time and learning Jon's true parentage giving them license.

Quite a lot of this episode was not just wrapping up storylines, but setting up the new status quo for next season.

Based on the way Littlefinger was glowering when things in the North did not go his way, he will no doubt be stirring shit to undermine Jon (likely related to his bastard status) next season linked with the suggestion that it could all just go away if Sansa would just marry him. Then Bran will show up at a pivotal moment to reveal Jon's true parentage and Jon/Sansa will shut down Littlefinger's efforts by merging Jon's line with Ned's trueborn line.

Meanwhile, Dany will be looking for a political marriage to bring parts of Westeros into line and might even be looking at Jon, but when his parentage is revealed she'll back off because marrying another Targaryen doesn't expand her influence (she can have influence just by allowing her nephew to rule... also avoiding any potential fight over succession since if Jon is Rhaegar's trueborn son, he'd actually have a stronger claim to the Iron Throne than she does).

Likewise, I think they equally set up a possible Dany/Tyrion pairing as he's not only her most trusted advisor, but also stands to inherit the Westerlands once Jaime and Cersei are both dead (making him the heir to Casterly Rock).

Meanwhile Cersie is now the full-on Big Bad to be overcome next year (and the magic in the Wall holding the Walkers back being officially confirmed actually giving them sufficient stall time for Dany to start out next season in Dorne and work her way north to face off with Cersei's forces late next year.

Another fun set-up that goes along with my Arya as Jon's Master of Whispers is that she's got at least one and likely several faces she can adopt. My hunch is that she won't go home now until every last name is crossed off her list; which probably sends her in Cersei's direction next season.

[Umbelina]

I keep thinking Sansa got the line of the night.

 

"Winter is here."

finally...

[Avaleigh]

37 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

I always watch GoT with some friends and couple of weeks ago I had to remind them that Edmure was Catelyn's brother, that he married Walder Frey's daughter in Robb's place, etc et all. We read the book and we discuss the show, the regular folks don't keep track of all the details. Rhaegar was mentioned like three times in five seasons, most people don't even remember he was Aery's son or that he was married to Elia Martell, or even connects the dots between the fact he is also the same person who supposedly kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark and was Danaerys' brother. FWIW, I think the show could have used a flashback episode or some trick to tell the whole story, a la Jamie telling Brienne how and why he killed the Mad King.

My friend who is completely Unsullied still has no idea who Jon's father is after this episode and I just said that the show has given clues. She has no intention of rewatching episodes or anything so I guess it won't click for her until next year. 

17 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

That will be when he'll need his cousin's hand in marriage to solidify his claim. Between the discussion of who gets the master bedroom (resolution: share it as a married couple), getting back to a good place complete with a forehead kiss and Sansa supporting Jon as King its only matter of time and learning Jon's true parentage giving them license.

This was my thought process as well.

Regarding Bran--

Isn't it weird that Benjen dumped them right there? They don't have the sled anymore so Meera just has to drag Bran the rest of the way to the Wall? I know they're close to it and she's strong but damn, she's not Hodor. 

I wonder when we'll get the Wall falling? I guess that could be the way next season ends. Or does that seem like a midseason event?

Regarding Cersei--

I don't think that a Euron/Cersei alliance is out of the question now. That could be a pretty epic mistake and comeuppance for her if she aligns herself with a guy like that. Jaime would certainly be done with her at that point. Or Euron might hear how weakened KL is and he'll win a brief battle and be the valonqar who takes out Cersei.

[zulualpha]

Game set and match to Cersei this episode.  It cost her but she finally has her ass on the Iron Throne and she seems to have come to the conclusion she's the right person for the job.  She's the most Machevelian person on the show by far and that's saying something.

Arya needs some parenting.  She's off the rails with the people pie and murder rampage she's on.  Although Walder Frey is no great loss to humanity the actor was very good and I loved the medieval quality to the scenes in Frey Hall.  Great costumes and lighting too.  On a side note, the pie that Arya made is very British, there's a name for it which I can't remember at the moment but they made it on The Great British Baking Show which is a fabulous show if you like that sort of thing.  It's on Netflix.

Tyrion lost his mojo this season.  Did he get therapy while I wasn't looking?  He's not obsessed with prostitutes anymore, he's cut way down on his drinking and he's Dany's new best friend.  He's a completely different person and the old Tyrion was more interesting.

[slf]

Just as I've always known Margaery was going to die, I've always known her death would be disappointing. Because it was always going to be tied to Cersei and Cersei is the very definition of basic. She's the most predictable character on this show (and in the books); there are no twists with her, not strokes of genius. It's not a matter of if she'll hit back, just a matter of when; not a matter of if it'll be depraved, but of how depraved. And even though I dislike her character I'm not anticipating her downfall because it's been so telegraphed and foretold; we're s l o w l y marching toward the valonqar choking the shit out of her. It feels like we should have come to the end of her story ten times now. She's a chore of a character.

With storytelling the best stories are about how, not what; but honestly, when it comes to Cersei? The show (and books) could use a little of the opposite. I sincerely hope GRRM finds a different way to kill Margaery off and makes Cersei's descent much more interesting than what the show came up with

[Nanrad]

2 hours ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Arya killing Frey. If you watch the video above, you'll have a good idea why. They've almost completely obliterated this character. I think of how strong Maisie was in this role around the time of the Hound's "death", how much of the character's complexity and damage she brought through. Now it's just quips n' murders n' stone cold poses. It's fucking ridiculous. It's like watching a particularly indulgent anime.

Actually, I still see Arya as a very complex and layered character in the show. Arya does question violence, but only when it comes to "good" and "innocent" people. She is too ruled by her desire for revenge and justice as well as lacking proper guidance to fully understand the path she is taking. She couldn't kill the Hound because she had grown to care about him, despite hating him for killing Mycah. When it comes to her emotional beats, that damage is very much apparent. She isn't detached and uncaring, she lacks guidance and spent some time with a murder cult, so her already warped sense of justice was further warped, but her line was drawn at killing people just because. 

Even with her desperation to become No One, it's driven by grief and she internally fights at giving up her identity and the name/life that came with it (more so the memories). Arya is very much misguided, but I also think that due to her environment, anger, and being alone for so long, she's not going to have those ideas/questions about violence.

1 hour ago, MrWhyt said:

I don't know how they'd do it without putting a timestamp on every scene but I wish they had established a way for the viewers to line up each story line chronologically early on in the series.

Do you watch Suits? It's sinful as shit regarding their lack of time frame. Hell, due to being feed up with Suits shit, I'm not even that bothered when it comes to GOT. 

1 hour ago, TwistedandBored said:

I see a lot of posters saying how Loras, Margaery, and Tyrell house didn't deserve this and I am like what show are you watching? 

I am sorry but a lot of people in this show who died didn't deserve to die either. Margaery and The Tyrell Family decided to enter the Game of Thrones and the game played them back tenfolds. Now just like any other house, their remaining family will try to avenge them thus continuing this great game. 

 I agree, those others didn't deserve to die either and we were upset when that happened then--now it's the Tyrells' turn. They entered the game of thrones and Margaery tried to leave because it wasn't worth it in the end. The only reason the Lannisters are winning is because no one is as ruthless as them and that it about to pay them back, probably only Cersei, a thousand times fold. 

[Advance35]

I guess I felt bad for Margaery because as far as players went, she was one of the more humane.  She didn't seem to enjoy the suffering of anyone.  She was willing to work with the "bad hats" House Lannister but she seemed to want to temper their tyranny with her and House Tyrell good works.  I do think she had long term plans to muscle out the High Sparrow.  I think she didn't let Olenna sic the Tyrell army on the Faith because she felt she could maneuver in a way that wouldn't cost House Tyrell their image of a chivalrous House.   The Lannisters are REVILED throughout the Seven Kingdoms and she didn't want that for House Tyrell.

She didn't count on Cersei Lannister and just how far Cersei would go.   It made it doubly sad because she caught on, she was the only character too.   My adrenaline kicked up when Margaery broke her "holy" character and told the High Sparrow to forget about the "gods" and that Cersei is aware of the consequences and is still not here and that they had to leave.   

And she didn't just try to save herself, she tried to save EVERYONE in the Sept.   Instead of running to the stairs, she ran to get Loras.  The Tyrells were brilliant but they were dealing with a total psycho.   Cersei doesn't play by ANY rules, she pays no mind to image or courtly/political courtesies.   She is a Mad Queen.

I wonder whom Cersei will turn here attention to first.  Dorne or The North.

[morgankobi]

I was actually pretty bummed that Pycelle got killed without anyone else figuring out his old-man act was just that, an act.

[Happy Harpy]

Since Arya is crossing names on her list, I wonder if Jaime took a little  another-faced excess luggage with him back from Riverrun. Cersei and the Mountain being in KL and all.

I completely agree that Arya follows her own vision of right and wrong, and won't kill anyone who wouldn't be the latter in her book. When I saw the servant observe Jaime I had the feeling she was curious and gauging him  (I thought "please be Arya" not really believing it, and Hell Yeah ensued). I kind of hope she goes to KL even before Winterfell, because the only thing missing to Dany's alliance for me is a Stark, so I'd like her to join. Her presence could allow a faster agreement between Jon's camp and Dany's camp when icy zombie shit hits the Westerosi fan.

The funniest thing about Bronn's line "not blond enough" is that it applies to both Cersei and Brienne.

I choked at Baby Jon's faceand the superposition with Jon, there, I said it. Congrats to D&D because yes, the situation was emotional and yes, the baby was cute, but it was imo far from easy to make something that so many people have been waiting for compelling. And for me, it was.

Jon's integrity was my main worry for this episode and I loved that he was horrified by Shireen's murder. I also loved that Davos respected that Jon didn't want to kill Mel (since she saved his life). Love Davos, love that he survived, loved that he was shouting KITN and Liam Cunnigham deserves an Emmy because he broke my heart when he spoke of Shireen. Hope that Badass Mormont will become his next surrogate daughter. They could kick so much ass together.

The first 20 minutes were fabulous and horrible and embodies for me what GoT is. 

Best episode of the series for me. The only thing I missed was another comeback, namely Gendry.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[ciprus]

Some thoughts off the cuff:

Yet another great episode! So many things happened and moved forward. Usually one important thing, maybe two, happens an episode. This was a game changer for sure.

Cercei really went all out and she got what she wanted, although it cost her. I couldn't help but celebrate a little when all those religious fanatics and the hypocrite High Sparrow was roasted alive, but I was bummed Margaery wasn't able to escape. I would have like to see her team up with the Queen of Thorns to exact revenge on everyone. Tommen jumping to his death was sad, but so understandable. What was Cercei expecting? I guess she's happy now, all alone on the Iron Throne. Jamie is so going to be able to title himself Queenslayer before this show ends. He was talking about Cercei's love for their children as a virtue of hers, not sure if he's gonna be fine with her actions causing Tommens suicide... Not that he ever cared for those children much, but whatever.

I like Jon and Sansa together, but I'm afraid Littlefinger is worming his way between them. Since she's raised in a patriarchal tradition, Sansa didn't seem the least bit bothered that people were declaring for Jon instead of her. But maybe she will start to mind if Littlefinger keeps whispering in her ear. Arya needs to go back to Winterfell and reunite with her siblings. And Sansa needs Brienne by her side. I'm super bummed that Brienne lost out on all the action when it took Yara and Theon just an episode to get from the Iron Islands to Mereen.

Glad Dany dumped Daario, he's been mostly waste of space so far. Pretty nice fleet you got there now too, Dany. And you're finally going to Westeros! It only took you six seasons. 

Jon sparing Melisandre gave me pause, what about those black and white Stark morals?

Aaand, we finally see the origin of Jon. Such an anticlimax at this point. 

This show has really desensitized me when it comes to character death. I was very upset when they burned Shireen alive, but other than that, I haven't been that moved one way or another for a long time. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by ciprus

[Black Knight]

5 hours ago, prospazzinator said:

I loved the scene between Jon, Davos, and Mel. I think exiling Mel was absolutely the best thing to do it. It set up a nice contrast to Tyrion's more 'any means necessary' approach to red priestesses for politics' sake. Jon chose not to go that route and I think, all things considered, it was the right choice.

Actually, Jon's decision was exactly the same as Tyrion's advice to Dany in a similar situation last season, regarding Jorah: Tyrion said Dany couldn't kill Jorah, but she couldn't keep him by her side either, and so the correct thing to do was banish him. Dany agreed and did just that. So come to think of it, it's actually an instance of all three of them thinking the same way, which is both foreshadowing of their working together in future and a good omen that they can do so constructively instead of constantly disagreeing.

I don't think Jon's decision about Mel was about deciding that "any means necessary" for politics' sake wasn't acceptable. If that was his reasoning, he would've had her executed. He didn't because she'd resurrected him, and it's just not particularly smart to execute people who have devoted themselves to your cause, if you want other people to stay loyal. That's why Dany didn't execute Jorah, why Tyrion advised her not to execute Jorah.

The contrast is not between Jon and Tyrion, it's between Jon and Robb, who executed Karstark. Plus Dany made Robb's mistake once as well, with the execution she ordered in Meereen of the former slave loyal to her who'd killed one of the Meereen nobles, so she knew not to repeat it with Jorah later. Tyrion giving the correct advice in that situation was what convinced Dany to bring him on as an advisor.

[bunnyblue]

A few small things I loved:

Tormund saying "we didn't invade, we were invited". He only got 1 line but he made the most of it. I also loved that he kept eating and looked unimpressed as the "southerners" did their little KitN ritual. I'm so happy he lived to see another season.

Good to see Varys on the same boat as Dany as they sailed West. I was a little worried that the reason Varys and Dany kept missing each other was because Varys was the Harpy and would be outed by season's end as a big OMFG moment. So glad that didn't happen and that Dany seems to have forgiven him for being Robert's spy master who tried to have her killed. 

Speaking of Dany, these last 2 episodes convinced me she is not going to go all Mad Queen. The fire and blood speech to the Dothraki in 6x06 made me a little concerned but it's good to see she's brought that blood lust down a bit. I also love her relationship with Tyrion and how she values and listens to his counsel. The scene between them where she officially made him her Hand was emotional and perfectly acted. I can not wait for Cersei to lose her shit when she sees her little brother (the "little monster") triumphantly return to King's Landing at the side of the rightful Queen.

There couldn't have been a more perfect final scene than what we got. FINALLY, after 6 long seasons of watching Dany wander all over Essos, she's heading to Westeros. All of it was gorgeous: hundreds of ships with the Targaryen, Martell, and Greyjoy banners; Dany and her advisers on the deck of the lead ship; Grey Worm looking like a badass; the Dothraki and their horses (!) looking like pros on the ships; and of course the 3 huge dragons flying over it all. It may have been a predictable end scene but GD it made me happy!

My only regret is that we didn't get a shot of Theon and Yara reacting to the dragons flying overhead.

Edited June 27, 2016 by bunnyblue

[IntrovertGal]

Wow that was bloody brilliant! So much stuff that I have wanted to see for years and a few nice surprises as well. I'm not gonna lie, I teared up when the Northerners were declaring Jon Snow the King in the North, that was epic. And to finally get confirmation of R+L=J after so many years, I'm so happy. When the camera cut away from the baby, I knew we were going to see Jon next. So much fangirl squee!

I was spoiled for Cersei blowing up the sept with wildfire but it still felt good to get rid of the High Sparrow. I do feel bad for the Tyrells (especially Loras, I hated seeing him humilate himself) but I'm so glad that the Sparrows are no more. What I did not expect was Cersei becoming queen and sitting on the Iron Throne. And Jaime already being back in King's Landing to witness it and not looking too happy about it, holy crap. I really hope that when Jaime learns everything that Cersei has done (and how that contributed to Tommen's suicide) he will be the one to kill her, that he will be the valonqar from the prophesy.

I loved Dany and Tyrion together in this episode. While I will miss Daario's prettiness, I guess Tyrion was right that Dany couldn't bring him to Westeros. Seeing Dany make Tyrion the Hand of the Queen was a nice surprise and also a very moving scene. Those two have great chemistry together. As do Jon and Sansa.

Apparently Varys is now teleporting all over the place as well. ;) I'm glad the Dorne scene was short and that the QoT shut up the Sandsnakes pretty effectively, that was satisfying.

Haha @ Littlefinger's face when everyone was calling Jon Snow the King in the North. Guess your plan is not working out that great, eh Littlefinger.

The music in this finale was truly excellent, especially at the beginning of the episode in the King's Landing scenes. It was appropriately somber and almost melancholy, just very fitting.

The very last shot of the episode (and the season) was absolutely gorgeous with all the ships, the armies, the dragons, the Targaryen, Martell and Greyjoy banners, etc. It was a bit predictable of D&D to end the season on another Dany / dragons scene but it sure was pretty to look at.

[bunnyblue]

5 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Jon's name is something totally crazy, isn't it? The opposite of "Jon." Not sure what that would be.

My poor lip reading skills deduced 'Aegon'. That can't be, though, so I'll say it's Aejon; the Targs did love their 'Ae' prefixes.

So long, Benjen Stark. You served your purpose, so it's back to the wilds for you, never to be seen or heard from again. Poor guy, what a terrible fate.

Minor nitpick: while Benjen left Bran & Meera within sight of the Wall, it was still quite a distance. How is Meera supposed to get Bran there the rest of the way without the sled or a horse?? She struggled just dragging him a few feet to the weirwood tree. 

[areca]

...

Edited June 27, 2016 by areca

[BooBear]

7 hours ago, Gertrude said:

So much to process. Highlight number two - and I thought I couldn't love Davos any more than I already did. He was spectacular tonight and I love him with all my heart! Love, love, love him!

It was cathartic for me because last year I basically yelled like that when Shireen was killed.  Davos was my anger. But I was a little surprised because Mel usually wasn't very apologetic for all the other people she burned and also it is a serious possibility that Jon only got his life back because of that kid.  Is it wrong that I am shipping Lady Mormont and John Snow? She comes of age in like 8 years... John can wait. She was a highlight of that entire scene.  I am going to guess she has most of her 62 men intact.

I enjoyed Sansa here. She apologized to John and IMHO suggested she didn't tell him out of lack of trust. John was very kind and gave her the right response to make her more calm. Not sure that Littlefinger really has the end game that he told Sansa... I think he was feeling her out.  I have no doubt he wants to be on the iron throne but not with Sansa (unless she would be helpful). I kind of didn't like the "yelling" the king of the north because I know John doesn't particularly care about that so it kind of felt wasted. Where was Robin Arryn?

Cerci, that entire sequence was good but a little too long. Clearly the inspiration was the godfather.  I would have liked if we never saw Lancel running around if we just saw everything from inside the church until we saw cerci watching the explosion.  Not upset at GM percel. He was creepy anyway. Someone needs to tell me how Cerci is sitting on the throne? 

Jamie... oh no, I think he is turning. He couldn't even be civil to Walder Frey and I do think he loved Tommen.  I think he is growing sick of it all and this really could be the end for Jamie and Cerci.  Ayra not killing him was interesting to me. Perhaps she does have some moral code. Had she ever seen him before? Can't remember. I was a little disappointed in her story line. Happy she got wader frey but, so fast and WTF.  How can she use faces? I want to see her back at Winterfell asap. That will be the truely wonderful reunion.

Dany... well, glad she kicked Darrio to the curb. I never liked him anyway and I thought he was a bad influence. Tyrion is a great influence on her and I thought her naming him hand of the queen was really touching.  Is it me or isn't her marriage material right there? Marriage for alliance. I would think he could do more for her than John snow.  But maybe that is achieved via hand of the queen. Also... given that technically Tyrion is already married to Sansa... don't they already have an alliance with the North even thought they aren't particularly aware of it?

I can't say I will miss Margery. I think the show had to start cutting storylines and it sure did. Good job. We are expertly set up for a smaller but more important story

Edited June 27, 2016 by BooBear

[mrspidey]

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Cersei's reaction to Tommen's death was interesting because it was very unlike what she experienced with the deaths of her other children. Joffrey's death makes her feel pure rage in the moment.

With Myrcella, she feels pure grief and chiefly thinks about how good and sweet her daughter always was in spite of everything and how Myrcella was nothing like her. 

With Tommen, it was like his betrayal and lack of loyalty to her was so fresh that it killed most of her love for him. She's still upset and feels pain but it's like he became her least favorite child, he was a disappointment, and his death ended up being the least painful for her because she saw him as already being dead to her in a way.

I didn't read it that way. A few years ago, we had a few consecutive deaths in our extended family over the course of about 6 months. At some point, you just can't cry anymore, you just feel completely resigned and numb...

As for the episode as a whole: Awesome.

Cersei is soo fucked. About 10000 Lannisters against the armies of Dorne and Highgarden. Neither have bled in any war so far. And on top of that, Dany is going to invade with what, 100000 Dothraki screamers, almost 8000 Unsullied and three dragons? 

Better enjoy those Queen priviliges while you can, Cersei. 

[OhOkayWhat]

3 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Actually, I still see Arya as a very complex and layered character in the show.

 

I agree with this. She is a super complex character, and I do not think it is easy to define what is happening with her. I know she still has love inside her heart.....but there are a lot of darkness layers around it. Too much darkness, too much death. She is becoming Death itself slowly. And someone who knows about death and also is NOT part of a assassins group (even if he has HUGE issues himself) is Sandor. I hope they reunite and help each other. She has been alone for so long. She needs her family too. A lot.

Edited June 27, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[Knuckles]

The face-off between Mel and Davos was beautifully done. Davos was so very real in his grief and anger, and even Mel was not the one-note omniscience that she likes to play...she seemed truly frightened for once...especially meeting Jon's eyes. Banishment, but not execution...well done Jon. Do not repeat Robb's mistakes, but do not let a child's murder pass.

Tormund had one line, and owned it. Manderly minus his pies was diminished, but I liked that Cerwyn, having watched his parents being flayed, was still hesitant to embrace Jon. Fear cripples some people, and a traumatized young Cerwyn was believable.

We saw nothing of the chaos of the Daothraki invasion of Meeren, just the serenity of the Queen's pyramid. Will Dario and the second sons hang around to rule the place...who knows, and finally, who cares. No more Meeren.

Jon may now be king, but I suspect the next battle in the north will be tween Littlefinger and Sansa...they are both scoping each other out. The teacher vs the student. That's the real power play.

As for the valonquar...there's the obvious, Jaime. But there is also the Hound, Euron, and is Viserion the younger brother of Drogon?

[OhOkayWhat]

I think Lyanna Mormont is kinda a mix of what Sansa and Arya wanted to become.

Edited June 27, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[AnnaMayWong]

I dislike Cersei with an intensity that is unhampered, undampened, and boundless. She is a low pitiless b!+cμ, and I fervently wish that she had perished in her horrific Fire of a Bad Mad wannabe Queen.                                However, I would so PINterest that military-battle-inspired outfit.

[The Mighty Peanut]

8 hours ago, Alapaki said:

Speaking of which, I just assumed that FrankenGregor was going to slowly dismember Ulenna.  My wife thought that Gregor removing his helmet, along with Cersei's "shame . . . shame . . . " suggested that he was going to rape her over and over again.

Thoughts?

I also thought he was going to rape her. He's raped on multiple occasions and I imagine he hasn't gotten much action post-zombification. For Cersei it's a perfect revenge--forcing Septa U into sexual acts performed by an unholy creature while she lays tortured and forsaken for God knows how long. She's taking away her faith before killing her. Although I'm not sure the Mountain has a sex drive these days so maybe it is dismemberment. It's anybody's guess. 

I didn't see the "shame, shame" as necessarily sexual in nature--I thought Cersei was mocking/punishing her for her sin of enjoying the breaking of another person.

ETA: Another poster said Cersei's face would be the last thing she ever saw because the mountain doesn't technically have a face anymore and he may have gouged out her eyes. This seems highly likely.

Edited June 27, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Bill1978]

7 hours ago, mac123x said:

 

And I totally enjoyed Cercei getting back at Septa Unella.  I was flinching from that scene a bit too, so I wasn't sure:  when Cercei reminded Unella that "my face will be the last you'll ever see" did she then have Frankengregor gouge out her eyes

 

Oh that's what happened Thank you. I couldn't work out why she was screaming in pain. Initially I thought she was terrified by the face and the screaming really didn't match up.

[OakGoblinFly]

After 20 years, 5000 pages, and 6 seasons we finally have confirmation of the worst kept secret in A Song of Ice and Fire; that Jon is a Targaryen and finally, finally, FINALLY Dany gets off her ass and heads towards Westeros.

 

Frey Pie!!

 

I’m not going to lie, I did give a little cheer when the direwolf appeared on the Winterfell Clockwork Castle during the opening credits.

 

I liked the entire opening sequence; it was beautifully filmed (no surprise as this episode was also directed by Miguel Sapochnik) and the music was fantastic (the music is generally very good on this show; however these last two episodes has been exceptionally good).

 

Poor Tommen; I realized about 30 seconds before he jumped that he was going to jump.  Cersei’s reaction to the death (by suicide no less) was strangely muted.

 

While I thought that the Septa should have been punished for gleefully shouting “Confess” and “Shame” – I cannot/do not condone rape as a punishment.

 

Dany should use the magic transporter that Ayra used to get to The Twins as quickly as she did – maybe then Dany’s storyline would have been interesting.

 

Arya is going to eliminate all the people on her list, isn’t she?

 

Cersei has gone full tilt into bat shit crazy territory; Dany’s not too far behind her.

 

Lady Mormont rocks; it took a 10-year old to shame the northern lords into doing their duty.  “The North Remembers” – only when it is convenient for them.

 

Dorne is still dreadfully boring and I really don’t care that Sam and Gilly made it to Old Town (though the shot of the library was stunning).

 

Lovely moment between Jon and Sansa when Sansa reports that the White Raven was sent announcing the arrival of winter; Jon had a wonderful moment where he says “Well, father did promise” and he smiles – it was the first time in years that he appeared to have about 10 seconds of stress free, no worries, thoughts.

 

I hope that look that passed between Baelish and Sansa at the end wasn’t her thinking about partnering up with him especially after he planted the entire “a girl” or “bastard born son” garbage in her thoughts.

 

More anvils were dropped; last week it was “Jon Snow is no king” to “White Wolf, King of the North” to “He’s not the first to love you and he won’t be the last” and of course all those mentions of Wildfire.

 

Would it have killed (or more thoroughly kill) Benjen to leave Bran the horse?  Now poor Meera has to drag Bran all the way to Castle Black (I assume that’s where they’re heading as Benjen mentioned not being able to pass the wall).

[snowblossom2]

So...question. Can't Marg still be QYMB since with her death came Tommen's suicide? 

[AnnaMayWong]

                                                Daenarys remains much more than a tad tedious ?? to me... But that was a potent  scene-- encompassing the fleet of ships with the Dragons elegantly yet predatorily soaring in the skies.

[cambridgeguy]

On the plus side, by dithering for so long Dany has made her return a LOT easier.  I don't see how Cersei is going to be able to stop Dany from absolutely annihilating whatever remains of her forces.  She just lost the Reach's forces and there's no way the majority of the people will accept a woman on the throne unless she's got three dragons to back her up.

Robb was a great military commander but a complete moron when it came to politics.  Jon proved himself an idiot on the battlefield but hopefully he'll be a bit better with negotiations.  King in the North aside, his forces have been greatly reduced while Littlefinger's got a rested Vale force.  There's also that issue of Dany.  It's a good thing he and Tyrion were buds back in season 1.

I'm not sure why folks want Jon to marry either Sansa or Dany.  Even if they are "just cousins" they think of each other as brother and sister.  Meanwhile, Dany is Jon's aunt.  It is very Targaryean to marry to do that but Jon was raised by Ned Stark.  Starks are all about breaking oaths for love (Ygritte and Talisa) but I think they'll draw the line at incest.

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

King in the North aside, his forces have been greatly reduced while Littlefinger's got a rested Vale force. 

One side-effect of the North forgetting this season is that most of the Northern army avoided the slaughter at Snowbowl.  The Arryn forces would still be larger, of course, but the ratio isn't as lopsided as you would think based solely on the armies at the battle.  Jon now has the men of Glover, Manderly et al.

Quote

Meanwhile, Dany is Jon's aunt.  It is very Targaryean to marry to do that but Jon was raised by Ned Stark.  Starks are all about breaking oaths for love (Ygritte and Talisa) but I think they'll draw the line at incest.

Aunt/nephew is not considered incestuous in Westeros (nor was it in much of European monarchical history -- the Habsburgs did it a lot, for instance).  In fact, there are two uncle/niece marriages in the Stark family tree that came with The World of Ice and Fire (two of the sons of Lord Cregan Stark, Lord Jonnel Stark and Edric Stark, married their half-brother's daughters, Sansa and Serena Stark).

Edited June 27, 2016 by SeanC

[AnnaMayWong]

• I don't think Jon(yay[!] for THE White Wolf❗) to be an idiot on ANY of his field of battle. And, I harbor no desire, whatsoever, for Jon to be wedded to Sansa or Daenarys. None.

Edited June 27, 2016 by BookElitist
horizontal lines marring post and unable to rid post of these frickin' lines. So, IGNORE THE LINES, please.

[FiveByFive]

12 hours ago, gwhh said:

I was thinking more rape than dismember also.  Being rape by a magical zombie, would be so nasty.  It would make dismembering look great by a way of comparison.

The way Cersei caressed her body as she lectured her, to me, strongly seemed to indicate rape. If he was going to "dismember" her I don't see him removing his helmet. I think the "Shame ... shame" as Cersei walked away which was what the Septa said to her as she walked naked for everyone to see was also an indicator that rape was what she had ordered him to do.

12 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't think the majority of people would have fought against the Tyrells and Lannisters once they saw they saw what they were up against (I think more people would have fled), but that wasn't the only opportunity Margaery had to cut ties with the High Sparrow. She other options. By siding with him over her family she was only showing that she had no longterm plan to get rid of the High Sparrow and felt that if you can't beat 'em join 'em. By joining them she was putting a royal stamp of approval to the High Sparrow gaining power where more and more people who break the rules of the Faith are going to be treated the way that she and Loras were. 

Poor Margaery ... then again, maybe not so much. She failed at playing the Game of Thrones for several reasons:

1.  She gave the High Sparrow more power by supporting him.
2.  She then convinced the King to support him which gave him more power.
3.  (And the most important) She underestimated Cersei.

Underestimating your opponent in this world, is cause enough for death.

She was a master manipulator but she failed to realize her opponents were bat-crap crazy in the end. (Actually she did realize it but it was too late.) Cersei simply wanted it more and was willing to do anything to get control of the Kingdom back.

However, it's apparent Cersei tried to spare Tommlen but she also had to know he wouldn't have handled Margaery's death well at all. He was a weak king who always let other people lead him and when Margaery died after he betrayed his own mother ... he simply didn't feel he had anything to live for.  I'm with the other person who said she had already resigned herself to his death a while ago. 

Other Points:

• I simply love the fact that Sansa is not stupid enough to trust Little Finger. Of all of the characters on the show I now like her the best. It's been a struggle. I couldn't stand her when the show started and now she is one of the wisest players in the game. Jon would be dead without her at his side. Kat would be proud. 
• Arya always said she was going to get to murdering so it's not a surprise that she did. The level of gruesomeness was a lot. (I mean she fed him his children first.) Then again she did work at a place where she cut faces off. 
• Also goodbye Mel the Red Lady! Jon letting her go made sense. Here's the thing: Melasandre has always done what she thought was right because it was her God's will. Sure she did convince Stannis to kill Shireen. However, she thought she was doing the right thing. Also: magic is real in this world. She did bring Jon back from the dead. At the end of the day she is a murderer but she did do what she thought was right and there is something legit to what she does. Her crime was being wrong and of course killing a child but ... yeah.
• Finally I couldn't have been the only one thinking: "Wow, great going sending away your most powerful weapon who has proven herself to be valuable even if she's a psycho who is on your side!" 

[WatchrTina]

Well, Tommen just gave new meaning to the name "King's Landing."

Edited June 28, 2016 by WatchrTina

[OakGoblinFly]

10 hours ago, ybrik said:

Knew Jon wouldn't kill Mel since she did save him but glad he did banish her for Davos's sake. Also liked that Jon had no anger or bitterness about Sansa not telling him about the Vale soldiers. Liked that they both had a moment to smile with the start of winter. Long time since the Stark's smiled.

They need to smile more; Kit Harrington and Sophie Turner have mega kilowatt smiles that go all the way to their eyes and they need to be turned on once in a while.

[jeansheridan]

10 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I was seriously giddy at Cersei telling Unella to confess. And the fact that she was pouring wine on her instead of water was a great touch. I like her admitting that confession under the right circumstances can feel great.

Oh, and just in case there was any doubt that the High Sparrow is really just some nice, kindly man who is only trying to do good things, we see him totally getting off on Loras being fucking mutilated in front of his family. Of course there aren't going to be any septas who are allowed to judge the trial, only septons. I'm so glad this hypocritical, misogynistic jerk finally got his comeuppance. 

I bet Margaery regrets not siding with her family's army when she had the chance. Being queen was ultimately more important to her.

In all fairness to Maergery I think she was still trying to save her brother.  They had Loras locked inside.  She could have been swept away on a horse but the Faith could just execute him.  Unlike Sansa Maergary did not understand he was already dead.

[benteen]

11 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Well, Tommen just gave new meaning to the name "Kings Landing."

Gold star to you for that one!

I didn't mind Qyburn being given Varys's little birds scene.  That's probably because I like Show Varys better than Book Varys although Book Varys is a much more dangerous individual just like Book Littlefinger is far smarter than his show counterpart.

Dany has her Hand with Tyrion and Qyburn looks to be Cersei's hand.  Jon needs a political Hand and I'd nominate Davos (with Lyanna Mormont as Deputy Hand).

Edited June 27, 2016 by benteen

[Rhodri]

Quote

Dany has her Hand with Tyrion and Qyburn looks to be Cersei's hand.  I'd nominate Lyanna Mormont to be Jon's Hand.

No, she must be queen.  Ser Davos has been and will always be the best Hand... to a king that listens to him of course!

[Enigma X]

I think that we will see Mel and Jorah again. I would not be surprised if we see Mel with a cured Jorah again.

[Alapaki]

41 minutes ago, SeanC said:

One side-effect of the North forgetting this season is that most of the Northern army avoided the slaughter at Snowbowl.  The Arryn forces would still be larger, of course, but the ratio isn't as lopsided as you would think based solely on the armies at the battle.  Jon now has the men of Glover, Manderly et al.

True.  Except, I can't recall, did the show keep the storyline about Roose sacrificing most of the other Houses' forces when he sallied into the Crownlands and as he retreated too slowly across the Trident?

Elsewise, some morning after thoughts:

*   While Jamie's look at the end certainly suggests a coming schism between him and Cersei, I think the show writers have made the destruction of the Great Sept a harder sell as the impetus for the schism.  Wasn't it Jamie whom they had say "fuck everyone else"?  

It certainly seems that Jamie is going to take his son's death harder than Cersei apparently did, it's tough to pin that suicide directly on Cersei, in terms of whether it was foreseeable or not.  Speaking of which:

*   What about the Kingsguard?  How did FrankenGregor get to the door to hold Tommen back from the Sept?  Technically I suppose he's part of the Kings Guard, but he's always been at Cersei's side.  I'm sure there would've been at least two guards outside Tommen's quarters.  And it's not like Gregor could just mosey up and say "take five guys, I've got this covered."  Plus, I'd think that after seeing the the Great Sept completely blown sky high, the Kings Guard, and not knowing the cause or culprit, the Kings Guard would've completely secured the King.  Also, I don't think we saw any Kings Guard Knights around the thrown when Cersei was coronated (but I could've missed them).  Does all this mean that Cersei had them all killed?

*  I suppose the High Sparrow's failure to ensure that Cersei was present at the Sept before commencing the Trial is a gap in the narrative.  But I'm convincing myself that the HS seemed completely happy to try Cersei in abstentia, so if there was to be an armed showdown, he probably preferred to have it with an already-convicted Cersei rather than inciting a riot before the Trial could even be held.

*  I'm not too critical of Maergery.  She thought she had a deal with the HS and that getting Cersei was the HS's only real motivation.  She probably figured that once outside the Sept, and backed by the Tyrell might, Loras could plausibly disclaim any vows he'd made upon confessing as having been coerced.  She didn't count on the HS going Inglorious Bastards on Loras.  And, ultimately, no harm no foul there because Loras, and anyone who heard him confess, aren't talking now.

[mac123x]

When Lord Glover (I think, one of the northern lords at any rate) declared "he is the White Wolf!  The King in the North!" I thought it would have been much more effective if the white wolf had actually been in the room with him.  Did Ghost have a contract dispute and was sulking in his trailer?  Busy filming other projects?  Dispatched on a secret mission to find his one remaining sibling and rally her pack to the northern cause?

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Alapaki said:

True.  Except, I can't recall, did the show keep the storyline about Roose sacrificing most of the other Houses' forces when he sallied into the Crownlands and as he retreated too slowly across the Trident?

No, none of that happened on the show.