Black Panther (2018)

[Silver Raven]

10 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

How old is Shuri? Because I got Shuri/Bucky vibes from that post credit scene

This.  I said I shipped them.

I guess Killmlonger's last line is a reference to his mother's ancestors, since his father's ancestors were never enslaved?  I would love to find out more about his mother, too.

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, ChelseaNH said:

The Wakandans killed by the bomb at the beginning of CA:CW were engaging in outreach, so T'Chaka was at least exploring the possibilities of engaging with the rest of the world.  But certainly nothing like his son's commitment.

Yeah, it's hard to say, but I felt like that might have been something Nakia and whoever might feel the same way she does that might have been nudging T'Chaka in that regard.  But they definitely were there, and T'Chaka did take a leadership role in the aftermath of that first explosion.  But it makes me wonder what outreach they were doing if they are still thought of solely as farmers.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[caracas1914]

2 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

The Wakandans killed by the bomb at the beginning of CA:CW were engaging in outreach, so T'Chaka was at least exploring the possibilities of engaging with the rest of the world.  But certainly nothing like his son's commitment.

They definitely had “spies” planted all over the world, war dogs, etc, but I got the impression they were more covert and not directly engaging.

 

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I took it a different way. W'Kabi's parents were killed by Klaue when he was a child. He has harbored hatred and a need for revenge for 30 years. T'Challa promised to kill or bring Klaue back for judgment (and death). When T'Challa failed to do either W'Kabi's bitterness grew, especially after T'Chaka failed to do anything for 30 years. So when Killmonger shows up with Klaue dead W'Kabi automatically respects him because Killmonger did what neither W'Kabi's best friend nor his previous King could.

I also think there's an unsaid bit to T'Chaka's failure to bring Klaue to justice. I think T'Chaka never really went after Klaue because it would either reveal the secret he kept buried about his brother's death and, the role his brother played in Klaue's theft. Or because the memories what happened in 1992 were too painful so he buried everything including his hunt for Klaue in the past.

Basically everything in the movie tied back to 1992.

 

Oh definitely Killmonger delivered the way that T’challa and his father had not.  You couple that with also defeating the Black Panther in ritual combat and thus why I think W’Kabi decided that Killmonger was the baddest badass of them all.  

I do like your explanation as to why Klaue was never brought to justice.

However I do agree with some that the ritual royal challenges were theoretically someone virtually unknown to  the people (like Killmonger) could become king  in the blink of an eye and apparently absolute ruler of Wakanda was a shaky premise.   Wouldn’t the Wakanda’s observance of mankind’s history have warned them of such a risk with their way of deciding successions?

Edited February 19, 2018 by caracas1914

[KatWay]

5 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

However I do agree with some that the ritual royal challenges were theoretically someone virtually unknown to  the people (like Killmonger) could become king  in the blink of an eye and apparently absolute ruler of Wakanda was a shaky premise.   Wouldn’t the Wakanda’s observance of mankind’s history have warned them of such a risk with their way of deciding successions?

yeah I was side-eyeing this too. Wakanda as this extremely powerful, advanced and cautious country allows a ritual that basically means that the only requirement to be king is to be really physically strong and great at beating people up/killing them? Like, I'd assume they would realise being king of Wakanda requires other traits than that.

[Empress1]

14 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Black Panther pop quiz, which is the best line reading by Letitia Wright?

1. "The real question is, What are THOSE?!?"
2. "Great, another broken white boy for me to fix."
3. "Don't sneak up on me, colonizer!"

 I cracked up at all three, but I think I laughed hardest at the first one. It was the delivery, and SUCH a little sister thing to say. I am obsessed with Shuri. I'm not familiar with the actress but I want to see more of her. Shout-out to the young, gifted, and Black tech genius! But on that same tip, I wondered if she could have deactivated Erik's suit since she had built it.

I would watch a mockumentary series on the governing of Wakanda, and spin-off origin stories of all the major players. I was THAT invested in this story.

You know you have a good villain when you think " ... I get it." As a Black woman, I certainly understand the impulse to dismantle white supremacy, and if there is a Wakanda-esque utopia somewhere I WANT IN. Erik's ideas weren't wrong but his methodology would have destroyed the world. And his last line about how being dead is better than being in bondage sent a church "Mmm!" through the theater.

I loved Okoye's rejection of the wig. There was so much glorious natural hair in his movie. I FELL OUT when she threw the wig in the casino fight.

44 minutes ago, doram said:

Since this is Fantasy-Earth, I imagine this won't be that big a deal. But I had a sinking feeling when I saw T'Challa's decision at the UN. And I honestly don't see how it revoking its isolationism policies will help Black/ people of African descent in Africa or in the Diaspora. Killmonger might feel personally betrayed but Wakanda's survival is entirely due to its isolationist policies. In Real-Earth, it would only be a matter of time before the region becomes destabilised like Zaire/Congo, Nigeria and every other intrinsically wealthy. T'Challa will go the way of Patrice Lumumba, Tolbert and every African leader that has dared to have a nationalist policy. The exodus of White people into Wakanda, and the ensuing apartheid will make South African look like child's play.

I would really have preferred if they had taken the comics stance where it's on record that Wakanda has survived several attempted invasions over the centuries. 

Yes, I was fearful. I was thinking, "white people tend not to like it when Black people are richer and/or smarter than they are."

[ChelseaNH]

4 hours ago, KatWay said:

Wakanda as this extremely powerful, advanced and cautious country allows a ritual that basically means that the only requirement to be king is to be really physically strong and great at beating people up/killing them?

They don't let anyone challenge.  Each tribe was polled to see if they would challenge; presumably, the challenger has to be sponsored by the tribe's leader.  Killmonger first had to demonstrate that he was Wakandan, and then claim royal lineage in order to get his shot.  And the council probably could have required proof of his parentage, if T'Challa hadn't accepted the challenge without it.  (I am curious about the mechanics of the lip marking, though -- genetic or tattoo?)

3 hours ago, doram said:

The exodus of White people into Wakanda

Who says Wakanda has to let them in?  Like the US, Wakanda has certain geographical advantages against military invasion from major Western and Eastern powers.  Politically, those powers might want control, but they don't want anyone else getting control, so they'll be pretty quick to call out a naked power grab.   Possibly the most dangerous situation for Wakanda is countries allying to "protect" Wakanda from some manufactured threat.

[slowpoked]

Saw it this opening weekend, and wow, it lived up to the hype. This was the first Marvel movie I really enjoyed since GG1 (didn't watch Ant-Man, Spiderman and Thor Ragnarok, found Dr. Strange and GG2 to be underwhelming, and hated Avengers Lite: Civil War with a rage of burning passion). There's just so many layers to this movie, and Kilmonger may be the best and most compelling villain that Marvel has had, since God knows when. I was actually rooting for T'Challa to be able to convince Kilmonger that he could still save him, that they could turn things around together. But alas, it's what it's meant to be.

I'm also glad, that while this movie is technically a continuation of the last Avengers Lite movie, that Black Panter still stood out on its own, and they only decided to "continue" with secondary Marvel characters, rather than overcompensating by including major Marvel heroes because...MCU!!! That essentially was what turned me off of watching Spiderman, even though a lot of people said it was a good movie. 

Great to see more badass women characters in superhero movies since last year's WW. I want to be Shuri! It's great to see that Angela Bassett was able to still get a job on a big movie as this. Hopefully, we get to see more inclusion like this in Hollywood for future movies. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by slowpoked

[Shannon L.]

18 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Black Panther pop quiz, which is the best line reading by Letitia Wright?

1. "The real question is, What are THOSE?!?"
2. "Great, another broken white boy for me to fix."
3. "Don't sneak up on me, colonizer!"

My favorite was the second one followed closely by the third.  @Sandman, I saw the movie Saturday night and it didn't occur to me until this morning that she was talking about Bucky. 

22 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

How old is Shuri? Because I got Shuri/Bucky vibes from that post credit scene

Not only would Stucky shippers lose their minds, but all the racists who tried to ruin the movie with bad reviews would lose their minds.  I didn't see the vibes, but it could be because she looked so much younger than early 20s.  But, it's an intriguing thought.  I wonder if he'll end up making a home there after all is said and done.

What did I think of the movie?  I wish I hadn't allowed myself to get caught up in the hype because I don't feel like quite it lived up to it.  However, I really liked it and think it deserves to be in the top tier of the Marvel movies.  I loved the characters and the world that was built.  I think some of the CGI was off, but for the most part, it was beautiful.  I loved the fierce women and Shuri was a lot of fun.  The tech she made was imaginative and I loved her relationship with her brother.  One thing I really didn't like were the close up, quick edit fight scenes.  But, that's not a Black Panther criticism---I hate the technique in all movies. 

And on a shallow note, Lupita Nyong'o is one of the most stunningly beautiful women I've ever seen and, as some of you probably saw in the Movie Star Crushes thread, I thought Michael B Jordan oozed sex appeal.  It was certainly a gorgeous cast. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 2/17/2018 at 7:24 PM, doram said:

With the Herb forest destroyed, does this mean there can no more be future Black Panthers?

I suspect Bast can do something about that problem if she's of a mind to.

 

21 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

On all levels he rejected the Wakanda ”way” at that moment;    It was a fleeting moment but the incredible “sand” narrative that showed the chronological development of Wakanda showed Africans in shackles being put on slave ships and the implication was that Wakanda kept their inward non intervention stance.

Slavery as the spoils of war, for debt, and other forms of servitude would have been the standard practice of many of Wakanda's neighbors in Africa back at that time. I think they can be excused for not foreseeing multi-generational chattel slavery a world away as an inevitable result and thus the need to violate their non-intervention policy to prevent it.

 

18 hours ago, Enigma X said:

UO from me is that MBJ was ok but not outstanding to me. Which, in my mind, was still very good, because I consider many of the actors very good in this movie.

Yeah, Jordan was quite good to me in his introductory scene, his scene with Sterling K. Brown, and his death scene. The rest didn't impress me much, whereas pretty much every moment of screen time by Boseman, Nyong'o, Wright, Duke, Bassett, and Brown had me riveted. And Danai Gurira was the MVP for me, her Okoye was an absolute delight.

[Dee]

The Liberating Visions of Black Panther

Quote

Killmonger, the orphaned son of an expatriate Wakandan, grew up in poverty in the United States, his life shaped by the privation of the American inner-city and his experiences inside the U.S. war machine. He both desires to locate a home, a place he truly belongs, and yearns to correct at the point of a gun the injustices of a world order that so often exploits people of African descent. Jordan expertly communicates these conflicting motivations, tapping into the same angst and longing that lent pathos and an unusual depth to his portrayals of Wallace in The Wire and Oscar Grant in Coogler’s debut film, Fruitvale Station. In one scene, he has a bristling exchange with a curator at a British museum that holds dozens of expropriated African artifacts, his mocking inquiries into the provenance of each finely wrought mask communicating a sense of injustice that stretches back centuries and across the Atlantic.

A child of both privilege and lineage, T’Challa takes the long view, cognizant of the fact that technologies derived from vibranium could potentially disrupt the global balance of power. Killmonger welcomes this chaos, and looks forward to the day when “the sun will never set on the Wakandan empire.” This incongruous boast reminds us that the achievements of historical figures like Winston Churchill—currently enjoying a bit of a renaissance in the popular imagination thanks to The Crown and Darkest Hour—resonate differently in the provinces where his military often ruthlessly enforced colonial rule. The film repeatedly suggests that had Wakanda not hidden its advancements from the outside world, they would have faced a similar invasion from Western powers long ago.

Killmonger understands this history—he’s a former Special Forces operative trained by the CIA to destabilize governments—and he simply wants to turn the tables. T’Challa’s advocacy of internal development and neutrality in international affairs resembles ideas initially advanced by the African-American clergyman Alexander Crummell in the nineteenth century and refined by Ghana’s Kwame Nkrumah in the twentieth, while Killmonger’s desire for a militaristic engagement with the world on African terms seems an interesting blend of Edward Blyden’s messianic Ethiopianism, Fanon’s embrace of armed conflict, and Marcus Garvey’s belief that Africa was a sleeping giant with the unrealized capacity to dominate the world.

The tension between these two visions, along with T’Challa’s moment of hubris, throws Wakanda into crisis. The way forward comes from a different source: Nakia, T’Challa’s once and future love. An advocate for a more measured engagement with the outside world—the film introduces her as she liberates a group of women from the clutches of a paramilitary outfit that seems a clear analogue to Boko Haram—she pushes T’Challa to use Wakanda’s resources to make life better for vulnerable populations in Africa and beyond. Nakia insists that Wakanda can engage with the world without losing its soul.

She and the other women in the film, Dani Gurira’s dutiful general Okoye, Letitia Wright’s exuberant scientist Shuri (who steals every scene she’s in) and Angela Basset’s regal Ramonda, offer a fascinating counterpoint to the testosterone fueled rivalry between T’Challa and Killmonger. My only complaint is that the movie didn’t sufficiently explore the complicated relationships that bind and bond these women. As it is, Nakia’s approach recalls the new generation of female activists rising in Africa, like the Nobel Peace Laureate Leymah Gbowee, who has promoted the cultivation of soft power to diffuse war. I never thought I’d see a serious consideration of these ideas in a Disney blockbuster, but Coogler expertly draws upon these distinctive threads of Pan-Africanist thought throughout Black Panther. This is a movie whose political theory matches its stunning special effects.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Dee

[Lantern7]

Please let me know if I suck. In my head, here's the headline: "BLACK PANTHER TRIUMPHS AT BOX OFFICE." Underneath: "We're In No Hurry To Mention Guy With Plate In Lip."

[Morrigan2575]

I have a question about the start of the movie. While watching yesterday a few thoughts went through my head during the Wakanda backstory and, one just popped in right now.

Yesterday I remember wondering why the Boy had an American Accent but, the adult had a Wakanda accent. I remember thinking, couldn't they find a young actor that could do the accent? Then I wondered is this actually a flash forward to T'Challa and his son and not T'Chaka/young T'Challa? Finally when the father/son were shown on screen the boy had an accent so I thought maybe I was imagining things.

Now, I'm wondering if the first part of the Wakanda history was Young Eric and N'Jobu and the final part was T'Chaka/T'Challa?

Or I could totally have imagined it. 

[Lugal]

6 hours ago, doram said:

Since this is Fantasy-Earth, I imagine this won't be that big a deal. But I had a sinking feeling when I saw T'Challa's decision at the UN. And I honestly don't see how it revoking its isolationism policies will help Black/ people of African descent in Africa or in the Diaspora. Killmonger might feel personally betrayed but Wakanda's survival is entirely due to its isolationist policies. In Real-Earth, it would only be a matter of time before the region becomes destabilised like Zaire/Congo, Nigeria and every other intrinsically wealthy. T'Challa will go the way of Patrice Lumumba, Tolbert and every African leader that has dared to have a nationalist policy. The exodus of White people into Wakanda, and the ensuing apartheid will make South African look like child's play.

It's an interesting point, but I think the difference is that Wakanda can meet the world on their own terms rather than having terms dictated to them.  They've made it clear before the world has nothing they want, so it would be harder to bribe them.  There would be attempts to destabilize, but the Wakandans have a long history of unity (common language and common culture) among the tribes, even the Jabari, and a distrust of outsiders.

Wakanda has technology that is equal to or higher then anything the rest of the world has.  The cloaking ships are the equal of the SHIELD quinjets and the arm cannons and healing technology is far more advanced.  Combined with the fact that the War Dogs have been covertly observing the other countries from the inside, they seem to have a pretty good intelligence network, I don't think any power would really want to take on Wakanda.

[calliope1975]

36 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Now, I'm wondering if the first part of the Wakanda history was Young Eric and N'Jobu and the final part was T'Chaka/T'Challa?

I forgot to pay attention the 2nd time I watched it to figure out who was telling the story here. It could be N'Jobu and Kid Erik. Makes sense that his dad would tell him these wonderful stories of Wakanda. 

Kid Erik telling his dad he has no tears for him because death is just life in the hood killed me. Plus SKB making me cry like he always does. (You've come so far, Gordon!)

[Silver Raven]

13 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

They definitely had “spies” planted all over the world, war dogs, etc, but I got the impression they were more covert and not directly engaging.

Wasn't Nakia a War Dog, who was taking direct action to help the women with her in the truck?

[ChelseaNH]

Took me a while to work this out:  there's no "audience surrogate."

Which raises the question:  Are they really all that necessary?

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, doram said:

Like I said, it's "Ideal-Earth". In reality, it would be hard to find a society that is in such homogenous, perfect harmony that there can be no destablising potential. Even in this movie, we had W'Kabi nursing a grievance over the King's inability to bring Klaw to justice, and M'Baku leading a borderline antagonistic tribe. Those are cracks that any country that has had experience in dismantling nations would exploit.

I agree those are definite cracks that could be exploitd, and I am sure that there are those who could try to destabilize the country, but Wakanda has gone from third world country to great power, literally overnight.  Their advanced technology and formidable intelligence network would be a highly effective deterrent against any attack or destabilization attempts.  What T'Challa is doing could be seen as an expansion of Wakandan soft power, with the new science and cultural outreach programs, which could make their position even stronger.

1 hour ago, doram said:

But the common language/culture is definitely a plus. Initially I was skeptical when I heard that Ryan Coogler wanted to make Wakanda a multi-ethnic country like the rest of the African "states" (with the exception I think of Ethiopia) that were arbitrarily created by Europe with no respective to historical territories or ethnic homogeneity. But the end product seems to be something more organic - a few tribes choosing to come together into one society, under one rule with the Dora Milge acting as a kind of "federal" military. Which makes more sense and could actually work.

I thought they did a good job with the culture of Wakanda and I hope the blu-ray has some mockumentaries on Wakandan history and culture.  Wakanda reminds me a little of the Dogon who have a common culture and mostly related languages.  It also reminds me of the Hopi Indians, who living on marginal land (or believed to be marginal land in Wakanda's case) were largely left alone.

1 hour ago, ChelseaNH said:

Took me a while to work this out:  there's no "audience surrogate."

Which raises the question:  Are they really all that necessary?

I think they're overrated.  I think we all (usually) identify with the hero.  As a white guy watching this movie, the character I identified with most was T'Challa.  If I were in this story, he's the character I'd want to be.

[Raja]

On 2/13/2018 at 8:37 AM, ApathyMonger said:

 

* Freeman's role is smaller than I expected. He's good, but not all that necessary.

 

* Denzel Whitaker plays Young Forest Whitaker in the flashbacks. They're not related, but Denzel played Forest's son in _The Great Debaters_. This is one of the only times I'll get to reference _The Great Debaters_.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

* Some of the third act stuff doesn't quite work, with one character having a change of heart that's never explained and doesn't feel justified, and the villain giving up a bit too easily.

* The Daniel Kaluuya/Danai Gurira relationship was almost definitely added in reshoots. There's one throwaway line about it at the start, and then they never speak until the climactic moment where the battle hinges on their relationship. It doesn't work at all.

 

I didn't notice anyone else mentioning the Whitakers and The Great Debaters and look there it was as I was going to talk about Agent Ross. I think he was a bit more important. I got the ideal that only spies, the War Dogs had seen the outside world and for a "colonizer" to put his life on the line for a Wakandan. Part of the reason for the young king to push for greater ties to the world.

 

Did anyone else think the kid in Oakland at the end looked like he could be the grandson of N'Jobu?

On 2/17/2018 at 5:34 PM, Wynterwolf said:

That what I was thinking too. Which kinda puts T'Challa in the same position as Steve & Bucky. 

However the seed bearing portion of the plant was taken by a spy. Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow would have kept a portion. I would bet Nakia would too.

[AimingforYoko]

Jason Johnson from The Root: Killmonger Was Wrong, and Y'all Know It.

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Raja said:

Did anyone else think the kid in Oakland at the end looked like he could be the grandson of N'Jobu?

I did

[Jenniferbug]

I LOVED it. Absolutely loved it. For me, it lived up to the hype and then some. 

I've been a fan of Michael B Jordan since he was Reggie Montgomery on All My Children, and I'm still a little bummed we couldn't have him as a permanent part of the cast. I was hoping T'Challa would save him...right up until his line about death being better than bondage. I saw the movie Friday night and Saturday afternoon, both sold out shows in tiny white bread midwest, and I could feel how the weight of that line affected everyone in the theatre. 

It hit me the second time watching that the intro was Erik hearing the "fairy tales" of Wakanda from N'Jobu as a child. 

The women were fierce and amazing and I cannot say enough in praise of them. Likewise with T'Challa. If I thought I loved him after Civil War, oh boy do I love him more now. 

I liked the use of Ross. He didn't detract from anyone else in the movie, and I have no problem with him becoming the new Coulson.

This is definitely my favorite solo movie in the MCU.

[Morrigan2575]

21 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

It hit me the second time watching that the intro was Erik hearing the "fairy tales" of Wakanda from N'Jobu as a child.

Thank You. I just posted about that a few hours back wondering if I was crazy thinking it was Erik/N'Jobu.

Wow, now that I think about it, it gives that opening sequence way more emotional resonance.

[SimoneS]

On 2/16/2018 at 5:14 PM, Lantern7 said:

I did like a joke I read . . . Anthony Serkis and Martin Freeman are the only major white actors in the film. They play Tolkien characters. Shut up, that's funny.

Serkis and Freeman refer to themselves as the "Tolkien White boys" also. It is funny.

https://news.sky.com/story/black-panther-stars-serkis-and-freeman-we-were-the-tolkien-white-boys-11247716

[MisterGlass]

Oh, Tolkien vs. token.  Totally missed that.  I thought they were both good in their small parts.  Serkis cracked me up.  He is good at gleeful but horrible villains.  Freeman's character got a lot more character development than I anticipated, and it was nice to see a more subtle take on the character than in CA:CW.

As far as Shuri's age, she read mid-20s to me.  She had a certain maturity, especially in her brief scene with Bucky.  I'm not eager to see her shipped with anyone because she clearly has her own plans in life, and I fear a bad writer would reduce her to a love interest.

[Matt K]

5 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

Took me a while to work this out:  there's no "audience surrogate."

Which raises the question:  Are they really all that necessary?

5 hours ago, doram said:

Isn't that Everett Ross's role?

 

I guess it depends on how you define a surrogate.  Ross mainly existed so that things could be explained to him (and the audience) that the rest of the characters already knew.  That kind of surrogate I'm fine with because it's a necessary task in movies like this where there are elements that the moviegoer may not be aware of.  Otherwise you end up with characters explaining things to people who should already know it which makes the character feel stupid or just comes across as a "Hello my only Brother who's name is Tom and is a doctor".  In that way they are necessary.  A tv show could possibly do without since you have a lot more room to introduce concepts, but it your audience can't follow what's going on that can be a problem.  Although the opposite, where you introduce too much at once, can also be a problem. 

 

I liked Ross in this movie.  Didn't care for the role in Civil War, but here I think he worked.  And hey, they gave him something to do and it even tied into his backstory.  Honestly, if it turns out T'Challa takes on Iron Man's role going forward (the bankroller and sort of lead for the team), which I think could work, then I think having Ross as a kind of Coulson could work.  His character being CIA could help clear one of the obstacles from Civil War, that the Avengers essentially act on their own.  Now they'd have the backing of a major country and a tie in to American Intelligence (which could prevent the issue of what happened with Crossbones). 

[Lantern7]

I'd ship Shuri with Spidey. Nothing against . . . .dang . . . the girl Zendaya was playing. You know which one. It would be a weird deal . . . this Peter's tech (suit, webbing, etc.) is mostly from Tony Stark, but he's in a genius school. Well, genius for most of the world, anyway.

Been reading lots of articles in the wake of the opening weekend. CBR speculates who would be the villain in the inevitable follow-up movie. Let it be on record that I really, really, REALLY want Achebe. Just have the core concept of an amoral shit-disrupter in there. He wouldn't have to be that oddly ghastly, and I'll understand if Daki doesn't make the leap.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Lantern7

[Racj82]

The music video for All the Stars. My God this is art.

[Dee]

‘Black Panther’: Hollywood Cannot Stop Praising The Groundbreaking Marvel Blockbuster

Quote

Black Panther has been out for less than a week and in addition to breaking box office records, audiences cannot stop talking about it. More than that, directors, actors, CEOs and former First Ladies have been praising the Marvel Studios Afrofuturistic wonder.

Since opening on Thursday night, there has been a non-stop flood of tweets giving high marks to the Ryan Coogler-directed movie starring Chadwick Boseman, Michael B. Jordan, Lupita Nyong’o, and Danai Gurira. Beyond being a film, Black Panther proves to be a big step in inclusion for Hollywood and beyond, putting the spotlight on marginalized communities in a way that has never been done before.

[ChelseaNH]

13 hours ago, Matt K said:

Ross mainly existed so that things could be explained to him (and the audience) that the rest of the characters already knew. 

Ross showed up pretty late in the game to be an audience surrogate, and I don't recall people being all that worried about keeping him up to speed.  I'm trying to remember anything that got explained to him that we didn't already know.  My impression is that he was mostly there as a threat to the Big Secret (and Chekhov's Fighter Pilot).

[Morrigan2575]

35 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

Ross showed up pretty late in the game to be an audience surrogate, and I don't recall people being all that worried about keeping him up to speed.  I'm trying to remember anything that got explained to him that we didn't already know.  My impression is that he was mostly there as a threat to the Big Secret (and Chekhov's Fighter Pilot).

The big one was how the train ran and Vibrainium dampening lights which later came into play in the big Panther fight.

 

On another topic I was thinking about the Black Panther Flower and Killmonger ordering it burned.  I remember in the scene the priestess saying they maintained it for the next King and Killmonger's response was next King?!  At first I thought he was just being an asshole like I'm the ONLY King! Now, I'm wondering if his end goal was to basically end the monarchy in Wakanda?

[afterbite]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

On another topic I was thinking about the Black Panther Flower and Killmonger ordering it burned.  I remember in the scene the priestess saying they maintained it for the next King and Killmonger's response was next King?!  At first I thought he was just being an asshole like I'm the ONLY King! Now, I'm wondering if his end goal was to basically end the monarchy in Wakanda?

I would think it could serve multiple purposes. For one, he ensures that 1) no one else really has the power to challenge him without some kind of military coup. He and he alone has the power of Black Panther. 2) He and he alone has the power of Black Panther, which makes him a revered part of their tradition with no way to replace the kingdom's traditional protector if he's unseated. 3) He dealt a blow to the heart of the structure upon which Wakanda was built. He destroyed something sacred and interwoven with Wakanda's sense of itself. I would think that's pretty destabilizing.

I don't think it would destroy the monarchy in and of itself because a monarch could still be wise and rule, etc., but it's taking out a pillar of the foundation upon which the monarchy exudes power, divine right, and status of protector of the realm. In that way it's a huge blow, true, but Killmonger strikes me more as an eliminate all competition and destabilize to create uncertainty/panic so that he can seize opportunities than someone specifically invested in ending the monarchy. He wanted the be the monarchy, but more dictator as monarch, I think.

[VCRTracking]

When there were people  around like Cecil Rhodes, a man who once said "I would annex the planets if I could." and King Leopold of Belgium, committing genocide for his own personal wealth, I don't blame Wakanda for protecting itself.

[Wynterwolf]

Interesting article on the two end credit scenes.  I was not aware of the "white wolf" connection noted here, but I'd be thrilled with linking Bucky to Wakanda more strongly going forward.  

[Lantern7]

Yeah, which means we're not getting Hunter. Great concept: T'Chaka and wife adopt white baby who survived a plane crash, and he grows up to lead the kindasorta secret police of Wakanda. Hobbies: Smoking and being a bit of a bastard.

[Silver Raven]

I can't get the image of the war rhino licking Okoye's face out of my mind.  I want a pet war rhino.

[Grace19]

Such a great movie, I didn't want to leave this world, it was so engaging. This movie has the most developed supporting characters in any comic book film. Everything was near perfect, the world building, the cinematography, the score, the writing, the actors and their characters were perfect.

The hype for Killmonger was huge and I was expecting T'Challa to be over shadowed, but I was pleasantly surprised with T'Challa's growth and development in the movie. T'Challa is a rare kind of comicbook hero. He relies on the women in his life without thinking less if them and trusts them completely, he is not smug, proud or a play boy, admits his fault and is open to learning, he is compassionate and genuinely has a good heart. I completely fell in love with this character, he is my second favourite character after Shuri.

Shuri was so adorable, smart and brave. She didn't even hesitate to fight killmonger even though she knew she couldn't possibly take him down. She and M'baku were the funniest characters. Her relationship with her brother was so believable.

M'baku took me by surprise, his character wasn't even on my radar going into the movie, but he became my third favourite character. He was funny, sexy and more than anything his character was well developed. What struck me about him was that he started out as an antagonist, but when he had the perfect opportunity to become king, he didn't take it. He could have taken the flower without telling them about saving T'Challa, but he didn't, he is a man of honour.

Nakia was beautiful, badass and compassionate. She had similar ideology to killmonger, but she was moved more by compassion and doing the right thing while killmonger was mostly driven by anger, bitterness and vengeance. I also loved Nakia's relationship with T'Challa, Shuri and Ramonda.

Killmonger was great, Michael did a great job and he is the best marvel villain along with Loki. By the end of the movie I wished I could have seen an alternative timeline where king T'chaka took him back home and raised him with T'Challa.

Okoye was so badass. "For Wakanda? Absolutely." Such a great Line.

The Dora milajes were perfect, I loved watching them in action.

Ramonda was great and I loved watching her, Nakia and Shuri save T'Challa. That scene where they were calling on Bast and the ancestors to save T'Challa brought tears to my eyes, seeing these women on their knees trying g to save their loved one was so pure and symbolic of women holding the family together.

Every character was perfect including W'kabi. I can't wait to get back to this world in Infinity war.

Its getting harder now ranking MCU movies, I'll just say that this is one of the best of MCU movies.

[TobinAlbers]

44 minutes ago, Grace19 said:

Killmonger was great, Michael did a great job and he is the best marvel villain along with Loki. By the end of the movie I wished I could have seen an alternative timeline where king T'chaka took him back home and raised him with T'Challa.

So much this. Erik's resume spoke to his brilliance and drive. Graduated MIT at 19? Oh the things he and Shuri together could've done and built! He easily could've been the tactician military defender of Wakanda with those borders sealed up so tight not even a butterfly could've gotten through without his say so.

[wanderingstar]

On 2/18/2018 at 12:26 PM, Dee said:

T'Challa's shy little lovesick "Hi..." when he first sees Nakia again was positively swoon-worthy.

OMG, I loved that so much! And then Okoye and Shuri teasing him about it later was funny.

[Dandesun]

Stucky nonsense aside people are going to ship things. Have at it. For me, Shuri is so freaking awesome I'd hate to put her with the absolute mess that is Bucky Barnes or in between the co-dependent nightmare that is him and Steve. That being said, Shuri being the tech genius that she is and Bucky being the guy that goes to tech expos on dates for fun I can't imagine he would be anything but nerd crushing all over her. (Added bonus in that he didn't actually kill anyone she's related to. As far as we know.) Everyone should be nerd crushing all over her. Steve should be nerd crushing all over her. Scott Lang should be nerd crushing all over her. Everyone in the entire existence of the MCU should be nerd crushing all over Shuri. Rocket Racoon would treat Tony Stark like a toddler but would think Shuri is almost as smart as he is. (It's Rocket, we can't expect miracles.)

As for the 'White Wolf! White Wolf!' had to laugh because I don't think Bucky has ever looked cuddlier than when he emerged from that hut with his robes and his tousled hair and his sleepy face and his man bun. I was sitting there going 'hang out with Shuri because she is of the awesome, then find yourself some Steve, climb him like a tree and wrap the both of you in those robes and have some serious super-soldier sex because you both need it in a big way to purge some 70 years of icy nightmares from your systems.' 

But that's beside the main point of it all... which was how much I loved this movie. It was beautiful. The women were fierce with their own agency. T'Challa had to come to terms with his own vision for being a king. "You are a good man. It is hard for a good man to be a good king." Oo, T'Chaka bore the weight of his decisions for sure. And T'Challa had to face those decisions because he was born to privilege and power but had some very hard truths kept from him.

I was thrilled with how they handled Man-Ape. Absolutely thrilled. That's how you take a wildly problematic character and make that character believable, conceivable and not a stereotypical gimmick. Also, he had some seriously great lines. "I could use an army." "I'm sure you could."

Okoye tearing shit up with her spear is everything.

W'kabi turning his back on T'Challa for the guy who busted Klawe out only to shoot him and take credit for it... well, I kind of wish that had been brought to light. And he acted like T'Challa had Ulysses and let him go or just didn't feel like bringing him in as opposed to having him pulled away from them by someone else. It's too bad he stuck with Kilmonger's side after T'Challa returned but, you know what? War rhinos. At some point, I will give it up for the Rule of Cool. Besides it resulted in another bad ass General Okoye moment and I cannot get enough of those.

This movie will be wildly repeatable viewing.

Also, count me in as among those who want to see these amazing women get serious spotlight. Nakia, Okoye, Shuri, Valkyrie, Natasha, Gamora, Nebula, Hope, Wanda... Maria, Sharon... (I know I'm forgetting some worthies, I apologize) all of those names are a couple of super teams. No question.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Dandesun

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, Dandesun said:

As for the 'White Wolf! White Wolf!'

What "White Wolf" means in Black Panther comic lore.

[Traveller519]

I really really liked the movie. The cinematography was outstanding and felt very African, the acting was top rate through the secondary cast, the Nigeria assault and South Korea action scenes were very engaging. I think it was the best version of the movie that there could be. But for some reason as I left the theater I felt a bit underwhelmed. I didn't have that same tingling excitement I did at the end of Creed.

Maybe it had a bit to do with they hype, maybe it was Marvel (and greater super-hero) fatigue. But sitting here a day later, I think it's the constraints of the MCU.

The themes Coogler explores are very interesting and the perfect tonal ideas for this world and the actors completely deliver, but I think the plotting falls a little short needing to fit into the what Marvel needs to deliver in two major elements the need for a cinematic action sequence to close the movie, and fitting into their timeline. Killmonger was such a great character, presenting a viable alternative viewpoint to their issue, it's a shame that we don't get to see more of him develop as a child, what leads him to his military service career (especially if those black-ops were directed by Ross), and see him realize his motivation, rather than explain it through dialogue. T'Challa and Killmonger have an almost Xavier/Magneto dichotomy of vision of the same goal, but the only time they have an honest and earnest conversation about it is when Eric has the dagger in his chest.

Being able to explore the intervening period between 1992 and present day would also have let us get a better feel for Nakia's motivation, see Shuri rise to Chief Engineer, and follow the ascensions of W'kabe and Okoye, but I don't know how you can effectively look at all that while also needing to focus most of the energy after the events of Civil War while setting up all the characters for the Infinity War show-down.

So I think they did an excellent job given some of those inherent constraints. I'm looking forward to getting to more fully realize all the secondary characters in a few month's with Civil War!

[Raja]

3 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

So much this. Erik's resume spoke to his brilliance and drive. Graduated MIT at 19? Oh the things he and Shuri together could've done and built! He easily could've been the tactician military defender of Wakanda with those borders sealed up so tight not even a butterfly could've gotten through without his say so.

I believe that was early graduation from the Naval Academy at 19 and sent to MIT Grad school. After which a Navy SEAL in Afghanistan and Iraq before going to a CIA team.

[netlyon2]

9 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

Ross showed up pretty late in the game to be an audience surrogate, and I don't recall people being all that worried about keeping him up to speed.  I'm trying to remember anything that got explained to him that we didn't already know.  My impression is that he was mostly there as a threat to the Big Secret (and Chekhov's Fighter Pilot).

 

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

On another topic I was thinking about the Black Panther Flower and Killmonger ordering it burned.  I remember in the scene the priestess saying they maintained it for the next King and Killmonger's response was next King?!  At first I thought he was just being an asshole like I'm the ONLY King! Now, I'm wondering if his end goal was to basically end the monarchy in Wakanda?

 

7 hours ago, afterbite said:

In that way it's a huge blow, true, but Killmonger strikes me more as an eliminate all competition and destabilize to create uncertainty/panic so that he can seize opportunities than someone specifically invested in ending the monarchy. He wanted the be the monarchy, but more dictator as monarch, I think.

For me, the real value of having Ross in the film is to give insight into Killmonger’s *American* identity. Yes, the experience of being black in America is a vital (and sympathetic) part of the character, but so is the American military training and tactics that helped to create the very inequalities that he wants (or claims to want) to redress. Ross is our window into that, from his first comment on Killmonger (“No, he’s one of ours”) to his ability to pinpoint the reasoning behind the act of burning the heart-shaped herb. 

What I find fascinating is that there are so many possible combinations of motives for that one sacrilegious act. Was it actually a strategic move as Ross thinks? Or was it more of a knee-jerk reversion to colonizer tactics when faced with the idea of another person ruling, an expression of his insecurity? Hell, maybe I’m overthinking the whole thing. I really love that the character is such a complex study of “[becoming] the monster so the monster will not break you.”

 

PS

Shuri is 16, I believe. Her maturity and poise can easily be attributed to being raised as a princess in a country that emphasizes the responsibility of the monarchs as caretakers for the people.

Edited February 21, 2018 by netlyon2

[TobinAlbers]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

I believe that was early graduation from the Naval Academy at 19 and sent to MIT Grad school. After which a Navy SEAL in Afghanistan and Iraq before going to a CIA team.

Ah, yep! I was mistaken about his education/military timeline; but what I'm admiring is that his pedigree demonstrates his intellectual aptitude and drive. MIT and Navy Seal is no freakin' joke. And that's in the 'real world'. Imagine if he had been taken back and educated in Wakanda?

It's fascinating to wonder if Erik had been brought back would he still had the torn between two worlds issue having a non-Wakandan mother. Would he have felt this pull to the outside and wanting to use the resources of Wakanda to help the world but may have leaned more to Nakia's mindset without a worldwide status quo violent uprising? He'd understand the need to protect Wakandan resources from getting into the wrong hands, but may be tempted to go rogue if say his mother had died because of something he felt Wakanda could've stopped if they dropped the no helping the outside rule. Or maybe Erik would've adopted an approach in the middle of his dad and Nakia- covert missions on the outside to help the oppressed and then when one goes wrong and exposes Wakanda he and T'Challa become at odds in Erik's 'rashness' threatening the Wakandan way of life.

Now I really want an AU comic series of Erik being raised in Wakanda!

[MisterGlass]

5 hours ago, Grace19 said:

Okoye was so badass. "For Wakanda? Absolutely." Such a great Line.

^This.  She was like this movie's Wonder Woman.

23 hours ago, doram said:

I didn't see any of this concern-trolling for any of the 2190321893 stories about Centuries-old blood-sucking murdering vampires falling in love with white high school teenage girls.

The older I get the creepier those stories get.

[DearEvette]

I decided to see this mid-week because I didn't want the crowd experience.  Welp, even on a Tuesday 3:00 matinee the theatre was about 2/3 full.

I agree that this was a great movie.  But honestly, it kinda felt like superhero movie spiced up with a dash of James Bond storytelling.  Shuri was def giving me Q vibes with all her fancy tech. And that casino fight scene definitely tilted more toward 'spy' than 'superhero'.

More than that though, the film was a visual feast.  I loved everything Wakanda.  The look of the entry to the Panther tribe area with their rearing black panther was repeated in tone by the leaping ape that marked the entry of King M'Baka's tribe.  And holy cow, the shot of them all in the flat boats heading toward the  challenge grounds to crown T'Challa gave me chills.  What a fantastic sequence.  And of course, everything the Dora Milaje did, their spear tapping, their stances, their team fighting, their strut -- just everything.  And even when they went to the UN and wouldn't wear their armor, they still stayed in uniform with the black dresses and the neck and arm rings.

Speaking of, I adored the costuming -- again a visual feast, just the vibrant colors on everyone.  And every character's costuming was their own color story.  Nakia was always wearing shades of green, Okoye was always wearing red, T'Challa was always wearing black, the queen wore yellows and purples, Shuri's clothes were edgier and more fashion forward, W'Kabi was always in a patterned Sesotho blanket, even the guy with the Ethiopian lip plate was color coordinated in green/turquoise with his plate.

Erik Killmonger was exactly the sort of villain I love, the kind whose motives are understandable and who thinks he is in the right, even when he is doing it all wrong.  The last line of his just about gutted me.

So many things to say, so many themes to ponder.  Hell even the end credits were pretty awesome.  This makes me look forward to Infinity War so much more. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by DearEvette

[Dee]

How Black Panther Crafted Erik Killmonger’s Compelling Arc

Quote

Killmonger was so compelling in his righteousness that for Cole and Coogler, the bigger hurdle was to make T’Challa interesting enough to go head-to-head with his adversary. “It was tough,” confesses Cole. “That was a big challenge, to find the warts in him. What is it about T’Challa that we can latch onto? What’s the human frailty? He’s a character who does not easily get in his own way, so we had to find interpersonal struggles: Losing his father, finding his identity, his wanting to please and appease everyone. It’s hard because we rooted ourselves in the canon, and the way he’s written in the comic books, he really doesn’t have any flaws. He’s a hard person not to like, and he shows nobility in the face of sacrifice.”

To stay faithful to the comic-book version of T’Challa but also give him enough to wrestle with, Cole and Coogler decided to complicate his past: Our hero reveres his father T’Chaka, the assassinated former ruler of Wakanda, but comes to find out that the dead king’s motives and methods may not have been so noble.

“He’s taking on the burden of history, of what Wakanda has done, and he tries to right that wrong,” says Cole. “It’s more about that than him righting his own personal wrong, although at the beginning of the movie, he fundamentally believes in the Wakanda principle of isolation from the outside world. But Chadwick as an actor brings a certain humanity to it, so in there, somewhere, you always can see this thought of, ‘Maybe we should be doing more.’ The arc is that ultimately he finds his way there and challenges the new paradigm. He takes Wakanda into a new place.”

Edited February 21, 2018 by Dee

[Lantern7]

Ever watch The Opposition with Jordan Klepper? Basically, it's a spoof on alt-right politics; the opening credits have angry people flooding the screen, with two holding placards. The words on them change each week. Tonight: "SANCTION WAKANDA."

Also, Roy Moore Jr. gave so much love for Black Panther on The Daily Show. So, yeah, Trevor Noah and Jordan are in the loop.

[charmed1]

I actually watched this in a 4-D theater. My shoulder is still a little sore from the final fight scene. I’m not a superhero movie watcher, but wanted to show my support for the film. I loved how so many people showed up and showed out in African prints and black pride paraphernalia. Ha! So extra and I love it.

 I thought T’Challa and Nakia had oodles of chemistry together and was happy to see black coupling on screen despite how Will Smith famously said Hollywood purposely casts non-black women as romantic leads for black actors to avoid the “black movie” label. I found their scenes with each other sweet and sexy. Happy to see so many women in one movie who look like me, playing parts other than the fat, black, unsexualized, magical negro best friend of the non-black lead character. Also liked the kidnapped girls and child soldier scene. I was silently cheering for Nakia as if she was personally whipping Boko Haram’s ass.

All the “blockbuster phenomenon” stories coming out in the media are funny because this happens every time a black movie kills at the box office. The same stories appeared when The Best Man debuted and Waiting to Exhale before that. They’re always a “surprise hit at the box office this weekend,” story, which always translates to me as, “Oh, black people. I guess you guys watch movies too?” And then there’s the subsequent, “Does this prove movies with black casts can make money?” story. Then once again, you see movie posters featuring huge photos of Brad Pitt with little tiny silhouettes of Chiwetel Ejiofor. Rinse and repeat.

Edited February 21, 2018 by charmed1

[dusang]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Ever watch The Opposition with Jordan Klepper? Basically, it's a spoof on alt-right politics; the opening credits have angry people flooding the screen, with two holding placards. The words on them change each week. Tonight: "SANCTION WAKANDA."

Also, Roy Moore Jr. gave so much love for Black Panther on The Daily Show. So, yeah, Trevor Noah and Jordan are in the loop.

Roy Wood Jr.  Roy Moore is a very different animal.