S06.E05: The Door

[halkatla]

It was heartbreaking but I´m over it. I think Bran is cool.

[dramachick]

I don't know how much more of this heartache I can take!

RIP Hodor. The most honorable and loyal member of House Stark.

RIP Summer. Fierce protector to his last growl.

Oh man. Trying to figure out the time-space continuum always make my head hurt.

Littlefinger is a lying liar who lies. I hated that Sansa believed that lie about her uncle retaking his castle, but maybe she'll finally kill him when she learns the truth. As far as we know, her mother's brother Edmund is still alive and married to a Frey. Even if he was free, he wouldn't send any army north.  Brienne will probably get captured by the Freys and thrown in the dungeon when she goes to the Riverland.

Fortunately, Jon and Davos are experienced and have too much sense to heavily rely on what Sansa said and won't take it for granted that any help is coming from the Tully family.

I don't think Sansa's lie means that she's planning to betray Jon, but she may be suffering a bit from Cercei's Syndrome in that she thinks she's smarter than she is. She trusts Jon with her life, but she doesn't trust him to understand the big picture politics of their situation, which is typically wrong on her part because out of all the Starks, he's the smartest one in the bunch.

Danyeris' story is nothing but a big ego trip. Where the hell is she leading the Dothraki and all those other people following her? Why would a nomadic desert people want to live in Westeros? Are they going to become farmers? She has three dragons, and that's enough for her to conquer Westeros through the fear and intimidation she loves to use. Everything else is vanity.

Edited May 24, 2016 by dramachick
spelling

[dramachick]

[FormerMod-a1]

::sniff::  poor, sweet Wyllis.  

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I think it is simpler than that.  The iron king needs to survive drowning.  What does not drown but floats on sea? Wood.  Thus crown made of wood.

And as a formerly living thing, the wood ties in with "What is dead may never die."

...Still, no shortage of hideous crowns in Westeros and that one's no exception.

[luckyroll3]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

One thing I noticed in the credits that I never paid attention to before is the sigil in King's Landing remains the Baratheon stag and not the Lannister lion.  So we are still pretending Joffrey and Tommen are Robert's?

I would have thought that when Joffrey took over and Tywin became the Hand the stag would come down and the lion rise up.

There's no Maury waving around DNA tests to prove otherwise, so he's still a Baratheon.

[One Tough Cookie]

OK--now I'm getting pissed.  Where is BRON?

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, One More Time said:

OK--now I'm getting pissed.  Where is BRON?

I know? We need some Bron. 

[paigow]

18 minutes ago, Drogo said:

...Still, no shortage of hideous crowns in Westeros and that one's no exception.

Spinoff: Game of Runways - Baratheon Antlers vs Greyjoy Flotsam

[maydaymayday]

7 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

 However, the "I feel Ramsay" lines was foreshadowing of baby Ramsay to me, sigh :(

omg noooooo.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Of Thrones Takes Us Down To Paradox City

With peace in Meereen, and a death that's a pity.

[Captain Stable]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Seems similar to 12 Monkeys. Young Bruce Willis sees his adult version killed at the airport. By travelling back in time but failing to stop the virus ensures that he grows up in a wasteland and eventually volunteers for time travel duty.  Hodor had a date with destiny (density) .

Wasn't there a part of 12 Monkeys where, after meeting the leader of the Army of the 12 Monkeys (Brad Pitt), Bruce asks about the significance of the name, which then prompts the leader to call his army "The Army of the 12 Monkeys".
(ie: If he had never gone back in time and spoken the name, the name would never exist)

[filmfan2480]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't really get what happened to Hodor. Is there a distinction between "warging" into another body and "warging" into the past? Is that technically even called "warging" when Bran projects himself into the past? Because he's in the past, and at the same time, was able to warg himself into Hodor while still warged into the past. And that somehow caused past Hodor (Willis) to see into the future and traumatize him to the point where he was no longer able to say anything other than "Hodor?" The mechanics of all of this baffle me.

I completely agree with this. I still don't get it.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Euron said no problem, we'll just build a thousand more.  What's his timetable, a decade?

Right? The Iron Island stuff is ridiculous. From the campaign speeches to the whole thing about gathering all the wood they can and build 1000 ships. The entire White Walker/Dragon fight will be over before they can build 1000 ships!  I did enjoy Theon backing Yara though.

I don't think a man wants a girl to actually become faceless either.

It's funny to me that two of my favorite characters at the beginning are now embroiled in stories that bore me (Dani and Arya). Plus, I used to get a bit bored with all things north and now? The North is where it's at and who cares about Kings Landing?

[myname2use4now]

Maybe I imagined it but when Euron said that he would seduce the queens with his fleet, I thought I saw a light go on in Yara's head. I wonder if he gave her the idea to take the boats and sail away.

Also, as many have pointed out, how easy is it going to be to find enough wood in the Iron Islands to start building ships. It is a bit ironic that they are sea people in need of boats on an island most known for iron. Maybe that's why the crown was made of wood, because it's a scarce resource so it's more valuable?

[Law Mom]

1 hour ago, dramachick said:

This meme is making me tear up just a little.

[BitterApple]

Ok, that meme just made me burst into tears. I'm way too emotionally attached to this show. 

I know Hodor's death was his destiny and Bran will fulfill a larger purpose, but goddamn, that was brutal to watch. I kept screaming "wake up" at my television set.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Spinoff: Game of Runways - Baratheon Antlers vs Greyjoy Flotsam

Two crowns remaining, one day you're in, the next day you're ought :P

[MrWhyt]

6 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

If IRC, their relationship began when the man was in trouble and Arya helped him out. He promised her 3 deaths because he was grateful to her.

that's assuming that the person wearing the Jaquen face now is the person who was wearing the Jaqen face then.

[Constantinople]

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I think it is simpler than that.  The iron king needs to survive drowning.  What does not drown but floats on sea?

A witch?

[izabella]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't really get what happened to Hodor. Is there a distinction between "warging" into another body and "warging" into the past? Is that technically even called "warging" when Bran projects himself into the past? Because he's in the past, and at the same time, was able to warg himself into Hodor while still warged into the past. And that somehow caused past Hodor (Willis) to see into the future and traumatize him to the point where he was no longer able to say anything other than "Hodor?" The mechanics of all of this baffle me.

I was confused by all of that, too.  I think there is a distinction.  When Bran wargs, he inhabits the creature he wargs into.  So for him to warg into Hodor, Bran would do so to control what Hodor does (hold the door), and we've seen Bran do this before. 

When he holds onto a tree root and his eyes spin into his head, he is observing what is happening in the past, but he isn't inhabiting anyone and isn't controlling anyone's body or brain.  So it seems like they are two two different things.

ETA: oh, wait, when he holds onto the tree root is he inhabiting the 3ER/old guy in the tree?

Edited May 24, 2016 by izabella

[Last Time Lord]

4 hours ago, dramachick said:

And now I'm crying.

Thanks, you jerk.

[Lady S.]

9 hours ago, paigow said:

Seems similar to 12 Monkeys. Young Bruce Willis sees his adult version killed at the airport. By travelling back in time but failing to stop the virus ensures that he grows up in a wasteland and eventually volunteers for time travel duty.  Hodor had a date with destiny (density) .

 

7 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

I took it as the 3ER making sure that what had happened, happened.  In other words, Bran always did Hodorize Hodor and so had to be astrally brought back to do it and complete the time loop.

I've been thinking about this since I watched the ep the first time and this is really the only explanation I can see. The closed time loop actually reinforces what the 3ER told Bran about the past already being written. Bran had always known Wylis as Hodor because he made him that way 30-some years in the past. Perhaps if he hadn't been Hodor he wouldn't have reduced to carrying Bran all the time and wouldn't have gone north with him. The 3ER maybe didn't know all the details, but he somehow knew when Wylis became Hodor so he figured that had to happen before he died. That can be the only reason the 3ER took Bran back to past Winterfell as their last act together, why he told Bran to listen to Meera about getting inside Hodor, and why he never pulled Bran out of the vision like he did before even though Bran needed to leave the cave. Bran can't fix things like Marty McFly. It had to happen this way because it had always been like this and was always going to end like this.

9 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

To me, on his solo quest Bran went exactly to the place where Night King was created, only in the present time.  Back when CotF made NK the north was still lush and green, now it is desolate and icy, plus the tree is split in half.

The landscape also matches the spiral art designs the WW like to make with spare corpse parts, doesn't it?

[LittleIggy]

Yeah, fuck you Bran! You got Tree Guy von Sydow, Summer and Hodor killed, you stupid brat.

The Lord of Light gets the hotties for priestesses. Probably because the habits are sexier than the ones the septas wear.

[AliShibaz]

13 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

So, Bran is responsible for melting sweet Wyllis' brain and for killing Hodor, so he (Bran) could escape and live.  I don't like it.  I'm not hating on Bran, and I understand the story telling reasons, or at least trust them, but ugh.

Bran may well be the very worst villain of the story. In the very first episode, his mother told him, "No Climbing" and he promised he wouldn't. Then, as a result of his climbing and peeking into a bedroom window (there is a name for that - what is it called?), his father was beheaded, his mother and brother were murdered, he was crippled and Hodor was forced to carry him around and then finally killed. How many others were killed as a result of this? Summer, certainly. I seem to recall others were too. Oh yes, Theon took over Winterfell and killed a bunch of people.

If you ever run into Brandon, you should run away just as far and as fast as you can. Talk about a "jinx". This kid has to be the ultimate jinx.

[Argenta]

13 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

Also, sorry show, but I don't care about that Euron dude, who's come out of nowhere and been on the show for 30 seconds in 6 seasons.

How dare you. Euron is going to make the Iron Islands great again!!

[Isazouzi]

29 minutes ago, Argenta said:

How dare you. Euron is going to make the Iron Islands great again!!

Can he do it offscreen, just like he's been doing everything so far? ;-)

[candall]

The Iron Islanders are a fickle bunch.  Yara?  No, Theon.  Okay, Yara.  Yara!  Wait . . . Urine!!

 

Seeing Jon strap on his new wolfpelt topper made me laugh a little.  He already wears that giant black yak cape and he's sort of a slim figure to start out with.

 

I didn't need seven shots of Arya looking sour while she watched the play.  Way to maintain your cover, A Girl.  Then she goes back and reports the target seems nice enough, so . . .?  But, wait, can I pick out a face, 'cuz that would be fun.  Arya, did you just meet Jaquen H'gar yesterday?  The best part of the segment was Arya getting her ass kicked by the mean girl.

 

Before the season started, I saw so many articles about the huge budget, the thousands of extras and the complicated choreography for the bigger, better, more realistic battles.  For my money, we'd be better served by more dragon and direwolf action.  FFS, who decided to eliminate the direwolves one after another?  Aren't most people in it for the fantasy stuff rather than the epic battle vistas?

 

This episode left me sad and cranky. 

[darkestboy]

Wow, that was some episode. Bran messed up badly. Summer died. Hodor got a backstory and then died along with the Raven bloke and the Children as well.

The origin for the White Walkers actually wasn't what I expected but was seemingly obvious in retrospect to other it seems. Interesting enough though.

Arya is not meant for the Faceless assassins and I have a feeling she'll be leaving Braavos or banished from there soon enough. The play stuff was a nice recap of earlier seasons past too. 

Sansa is getting stronger and I do like the bond she has with Jon. Littlefinger was still able to influence a bit though, which I didn't like but got why. Brienne and Tormund, where are they going to go there?

Dany and Jorah had some nice scenes but it's time for one of them to get to Meereen now. Varys being scared of that Red Priestess was a bit new. Not sure Tyrion should be trusting her either to be honest.

Theon and Yara were smart enough not to stick around. Euron doesn't come across as intimidating onscreen but he's certainly someone not to be crossed though, 9/10
 

[RHJunkie]

So maybe I was living in blissful ignorance but I was holding faith that Hodor somehow survives because there would be some sort of impact on Bran should Hodor die while he's warged in him. I guess the likelihood is that he warges out of Hodor before Hodor actually dies. Oh now my spirit is crushed. Poor Whyllis. Poor Hodor :(

To think, all of these series of events are because a stubborn little Bran wouldn't stop climbing that stupid wall.

Edited May 24, 2016 by RHJunkie

[MrWhyt]

4 hours ago, Argenta said:

How dare you. Euron is going to make the Iron Islands great again!!

He's going to build a fleet, a huge fleet, a really truly magnificient fleet. He knows fleets people. And he'll make Westeros pay for it!.

Edited May 24, 2016 by MrWhyt

[RedHawk]

Tormund is gonna be so pissed when he finds out Brienne's heart beats for that one-handed rich ponce Jaime Lannister.

Edited May 25, 2016 by RedHawk

[spaceytraci1208]

As much as my heart is broken for poor Hodor, this made my day

[QuantumMechanic]

18 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I think it is simpler than that.  The iron king needs to survive drowning.  What does not drown but floats on sea? 

Ducks?  Very small rocks?

[DollEyes]

  Re Hodor & Summer, to quote Good Times' Florida Evans, "Damn! Damn! DAMN!!" Their deaths were devastating to watch. They were loyal to Bran to the bitter end.  RIP to them both.

 

Quote

Bran may very well be the worst villain of the story. In the first episode, his mother told him "No Climbing," and he promised he wouldn't. Then, as a result of his climbing and peeking into a bedroom window (there's a name for that-what is it called?), his father was beheaded, his mother and brothers were murdered, he was crippled and Hodor was forced to carry him around and then finally killed. How many others were killed as a result of this? Summer, certainly. I seem to recall others were, too. Oh yes, Theon took over Winterfell and killed a whole bunch of people.

If you ever run into Brandon, you should run away just as far and as fast as you can. Talk about a "jinx." This kid has to be the ultimate jinx.

 

  I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying that I don't blame Bran for Summer and Hodor's deaths, but Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Tywin, Stannis, Littlefinger and and Ramsey are/were much worse than Bran, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited May 25, 2016 by DollEyes

[BigBeagle]

24 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

Bran may very well be the worst villain of the story.

Depends on where he goes from here, really. The other Big Bads you referenced never learned from their mistakes or (worse) were unable to admit they were mistakes. If Bran follows that same path, he'll put Ramsey to shame, as far as total body count goes. FWIW, I don't see that happening, however.

[DarkRaichu]

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

So maybe I was living in blissful ignorance but I was holding faith that Hodor somehow survives because there would be some sort of impact on Bran should Hodor die while he's warged in him. I guess the likelihood is that he warges out of Hodor before Hodor actually dies. Oh now my spirit is crushed. Poor Whyllis. Poor Hodor :(

To think, all of these series of events are because a stubborn little Bran wouldn't stop climbing that stupid wall.

Bran did warg out as he was dragged farther from the door.  Hodor's eyes returned to normal (not all white) during the close up at the end of the episode

[RHJunkie]

36 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Bran did warg out as he was dragged farther from the door.  Hodor's eyes returned to normal (not all white) during the close up at the end of the episode

Oh yes, you're right :( So doesn't this mean that Hodor will become part of the White Walkers army?

And maybe I missed it (admittedly, I only watch the episodes once so I miss a lot of the nuances that are used to create such awesome theories about the characters and storylines, but they haven't explained why the Night's King wants Bran, right?

As someone who hasn't read the books and relies solely on the development of the characters and storyline within the series, I'm really enjoying the similarities and juxtaposition of Daenerys and Jon Snow. The Red Priestess is just another element to add to the mix of that.

Edited May 24, 2016 by RHJunkie

[iMonrey]

Quote

Then, as a result of his climbing and peeking into a bedroom window (there is a name for that - what is it called?), his father was beheaded,

I'd call that a stretch. Ned didn't go to Kings Landing to find out who pushed Bran out of a window. Bran wouldn't even admit to being pushed out of the window when he finally woke up. It was Ned investigating Robert's bastards, and the accusation Lysa made against the Lannisters for killing Jon Arryn, that got Ned into trouble with Cersei. Not going along with either Renley's or Littlefinger's plans were also his downfall. I don't think Ned's fate would have been any different if Bran had never climbed up into that window and then fallen.

[CletusMusashi]

What exactly is Euron's end game for the Iron Islanders?

Step 1. We can not plunder Westeros, because they always kick our asses.

Step 2. We bring over somebody even stronger than our enemies, to conquer Westeros for us.

Step 3.  PROFIT!

Because apparently Danaerys' people would not have any complaint about being constantly attacked by an island of stupid pirates.

 

And... could that political process possibly be any more halfassed? What were there, maybe about twenty people who cared enough to even watch? I honestly think that Yara could have just stuck a sword into Euron's belly, said "Oh, I've got balls. Hey, priesty, drown me and let's get this regime started!" and all the bystanders would have been pretty much fine with it.

[CouchPotatoNoLife]

I think Littlefinger played sansa.

He at first wanted her trust, but once he saw that he couldnt have that he quickly formulated a plan to defeat her and jon.

1. There is no proof the tully forces have regrouped and take riverrun under the command of the black fish. All we have is the word of baelish a known liar. Someone who literally warned Ned not to trust him.

I am not sure why sansa lied to jon about the info about tully forces. Either littlefinger made her doubt jon by implying he was only her half brother or she felt ashamed she had turned down the knights of the vale who would be helpful in their situation. Maybe she was afraid the others would want to team with the knights of the vale against ramsey.

Either way by telling jon that she got the info on the tullys from a raven that Ramsey got, jon now is misinformed about an important factor. Jon and Sansa both believe that tully forces might be available to them, when in reality they might not exist.

Also I am starting to wonder if Little finger and not ramsey sent jon the letter mocking him and challenging him last week. Littlefinger is smart enough to do something like that. His goal would be to lure ramsey and jon into a fight that depletes their forces and sweep in with the knights of the vale to pick off the winner.

Sansa is playing the game and I am proud of her progress, but Littlefinger is a hall of fame/MVP level player. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by CouchPotatoNoLife

[CouchPotatoNoLife]

On 5/23/2016 at 7:06 PM, SimoneS said:

I just realized that with Bran no longer in the tree we are not going to find out about Lyanna any time soon.

that isnt the only Weirwood tree, they had one in winterfell too, and i believe in other parts of the north. Eg. where the night's watch take their vows.

[LittleIggy]

My daddy left home when I was three 
And he didn't leave much to ma and me 
Just this old guitar and an empty bottle of booze. 
Now, I don't blame him cause he run and hid 
But the meanest thing that he ever did 
Was before he left, he went and named me "Euron" 

Well, he must o' thought that is quite a joke 
And it got a lot of laughs from a' lots of folk, 
It seems I had to fight my whole life through. 
Some gal would giggle and I'd get red 
And some guy'd laugh and I'd bust his head, 
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a boy named "Euron." 
 

[Hecate7]

11 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

Bran may well be the very worst villain of the story. In the very first episode, his mother told him, "No Climbing" and he promised he wouldn't. Then, as a result of his climbing and peeking into a bedroom window (there is a name for that - what is it called?), his father was beheaded, his mother and brother were murdered, he was crippled and Hodor was forced to carry him around and then finally killed. How many others were killed as a result of this? Summer, certainly. I seem to recall others were too. Oh yes, Theon took over Winterfell and killed a bunch of people.

If you ever run into Brandon, you should run away just as far and as fast as you can. Talk about a "jinx". This kid has to be the ultimate jinx.

Are you suggesting that by the time this is over we're gonna wish Jaime had succeeded? Because yeah, that's a fear of mine.

[MissLucas]

I'm sort of looking forward to the Iron Born dealing with the Dothrakis - they're both such people people it should be a blast. At least the Dothrakis have a slightly better or at least more colorful taste when it comes to interior decoration and accessories. (Seriously whenever the show moves to the Iron Islands I wonder if those folks ever heard of dye and paint - when they pillage other villages do they throw away everything not grey?)

[Jodithgrace]

I really can't label Bran a villain, regardless of all the bad things he has caused to happen. For me, a villain has to have intent. In season one, Bran was just a young boy. He disobeyed his parents. Duh! That's what young boys do..it's practically a rule. He didn't know what he would see, or what would happen. He had no way of predicting those consequences. And he certainly didn't intend them. 

Even now he is still a young boy, despite looking 30. Did the 3ER ever forbid him to "wander" on his own? I can't recall, but even if he did, Bran was bored and curious..the one two punch of young boys which gets them into all sorts of trouble. Again, he couldn't have predicted the consequences nor did he intend them. Certainly, given the choice he would much rather have Hodor, the 3ER and Summer alive. 

He made, what in hindsight turned out to be horrible mistakes, mistakes with horrible consequences. But he isn't a villain. He isn't Ramsey or Walder Frey or even Jamie. He's a young kid with a gift he hasn't quite learned to control. And if he hasn't doomed himself and Meera to a snowy death, I would hope he will be wiser in the future. 

[Constantinople]

5 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I'm sort of looking forward to the Iron Born dealing with the Dothrakis - they're both such people people it should be a blast. At least the Dothrakis have a slightly better or at least more colorful taste when it comes to interior decoration and accessories. (Seriously whenever the show moves to the Iron Islands I wonder if those folks ever heard of dye and paint - when they pillage other villages do they throw away everything not grey?)

I'm looking forward to them fighting one another given their shared outlook on life.  Considering the 50 best (armored) killers from the Iron Islanders couldn't take out one guy in pajama bottoms, I'm pretty sure the Dothraki would slaughter them wholesale were the Iron Islanders be dumb enough to face the Dothraki on the land.

[RedHawk]

When I realized Euron's crown was a sad little piece of driftwood I remembered that the Iron Islands are a really poor place. Surprised he didn't promise the Kingsmoot voters that he would Make Pyke Great Again by bringing back shipbuilding jobs.

Edited May 24, 2016 by RedHawk

[Audreythe2nd]

Not to be a total downer, but I think the effort to paint Hodor as some kind of hero (maybe in order to make our aching hearts feel better) are missing the actual tragedy of it. Hodor wasn't a hero; he was Bran's pawn. That's why they had Meera shouting that Bran needed to warg into Hodor, and 3EC saying for Bran to listen to his friend. Then we have present-day Hodor's eyes go white briefly, he stands up decisively and starts acting useful. This is BRAN, it's not Hodor. If it was Hodor, he would still be rocking back and forth on the ground in a panic, because poor dude knows every time they are attacked this could be the time he dies, because he's freaking seen it already. The argument that Bran warged into Hodor and then warged out of him because Hodor's eyes turned white and then normal again is invalid because this is what has *always* happened when Bran has warged into Hodor. It was Bran using Hodor's mind-controlled body to hold that door; Hodor didn't have a say, he never had a say, and that's what makes this part of the story so damn dark.

Quote

Tormund is gonna be so pissed when he finds out Brienne's heart beats for that one-armed rich ponce Jaime Lannister.

Lol. YUP. Seriously, she couldn't BE any less pleased with the way Tormund has been ogling her. How are people missing that detail, lol.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

When I realized Euron's crown was a sad little piece of driftwood I remembered that the Iron Islands are a really poor place. Surprised he didn't promise the Kingsmoot voters that he would Make Pyke Great Again by bringing back shipbuilding jobs.

I still want to know where they get the trees to build.