CouchPotatoNoLife

The show doesnt really make sense if you think about it. Remember how easy the american agent lured fred into canada? He went back and forth across the border with zero problems. he even lured fred. This indicates the border is almost undefended. Given how cruel Gilead is, you would then assume that there would be millions of refugees trying to reach canada. The only reason that a country like north korea isnt totally abandoned is because they so strongly guard the border to prevent people from escaping. America also has about 10x the population of canada so the refugee crisis would be completely overwhelming to canadian institutions.

simply destroying Congress and the White House wouldn't put you in control of the American Northeast. the United States has a massive military including hundreds of thousands of personnel overseas. The only way gilead could exist after attacking Congress is if it had significant amounts of support from within the former US military. This probably means gilead has access to thousands of nuclear warheads and advanced missiles to deploy them. I could see why other nations would want to avoid confrontation with Gilead

I mean it depends on how you define traditional, but there was a time when the vast majority of women had no roles other than mother or wife. Property rights for women were non-existent about a century and a half ago in many parts of the world. Also women having less legal authority/standing than men was common in most parts of the world at one time. We don't know what Serena was advocating for specifically because in the one flashback the people against her were so vitriolic that they stopped her from even speaking. Although that probably indicates she wasn't just advocating for extremely benign two-parent households. The anger Serena instilled in her opposition, to me indicates that Serena was advocating for some extremely controversial positions. Perhaps including women not being allowed financial freedom away from their husbands. Serena and instilled enough hatred that they attempted to assassinate her.

You have to connect the dots a little but I tend to think the reason Fred is a commander is because of Serena. That scene is of Serena giving a speech and being protested against. Judging by how they react to Serena you have to imagine some of the things she was advocating for were controversial. I've seen nothing in the series to indicate to me why Fred is a commander other than his wife being famous for advocating for a Gilead approved lifestyle before Gilead. I think it's a bigger jump in logic to assume Fred became a commander on his own merits. At 0:53 the actor that plays Fred says Serena was instrumental in the architecture of Gilead Another point is that Serena still assumed she would be able to participate in policy decisions in Gilead. To me this indicates that she had some influence beforehand. She seemed surprised that they weren't going to allow her to participate in Gilead's leadership. At a minimum Serena was aware of the plan to attack Congress and she celebrated once she heard the attack had begun. Serena was the target of assassins not Fred. Serena was the star Fred was only her manager. I don't really see how Fred would have been a commander without Serena. Also after the establishment of Gilead Serena speaks fondly of the attacks and violence used to establish Gilead. In one scene Rita reveals that her son died in the wars. Serena thanks Rita for her sacrifice assuming that her son died fighting for Gilead. But judging by Rita's face I think the audience is supposed to assume Rita son died fighting against Gilead. Serena describes Nick as a crusader for Gilead. Up until Gilead turned against her she was all for it.

I agree with this and I will go even further. Serena was out there advocating for this lifestyle. She was out there talking about a woman's place. Her book idealized Gilead's perception of women. To be child bearers, to be wives, to be submissive, to serve, etc. Her writing was probably one of the justifications of how Gilead treats women. We see in the flashback that groups opposing her went to protest her speeches. We even see that some people hated her so much that they tried to assassinate her. I honestly would have been disgusted if Serena had gotten scot-free away with what she did in Gilead and in any way got to spend time with Nicole. It would have offended me so much if her character got the baby she wanted

I agree that her influence was over after the revolution. I also subscribe to the idea that Fred's power comes largely from the fact that his wife was a famous advocate of the lifestyle Gilead prescribes. I think I've been told in the past not to bring in real life examples to this forum, so I will refrain from that. However it is possible that commanders would look upon favorably a woman that advocated every single thing they believed in. Just because a group of people discriminate against a certain demographic doesn't mean there aren't specific people of that demographic that they can support if that person behaves in exactly the way they feel is appropriate. Further if that person is willing to demonize and attack others of their demographic group they can become a valuable attack dog. I don't think Fred is a commander without Serena Joy being a famous author that wrote books idealizing the Gilead lifestyle. If Serena were Sam and Fred were Francesca, Sam would probably have been among the most powerful commanders. Basically in my opinion the only thing holding Serena back in the Gilead power structure is her gender.

Although I disagree with why she's being punished I am still glad that Serena is not going to get away with everything. Maybe my interpretation of the story is wrong but in my opinion she's more responsible for Gilead than Fred is. According to the flashbacks she wrote books that advocated for this way of life. at a minimum we know she was very influential on some of the wives of other commanders. She planted the seeds of Gilead in the minds of many of the wives of other commanders. Her own thirst for having a child doomed many women and justified a world where Gilead made up reasons to steal the existing children of women. Serena thought she would be an exception and be allowed some power. She only turned against Gilead when she realized she created a world where she was at best 2nd class. Unlike some of the other posters I have no sympathy for Serena

I mean with how bad Gilead is I have to assume every family with a daughter would try to leave Gilead. Look at real life. Look at the refugee crisis in europe, look at the US southern border. People are willing to walk tremendous distances to escape danger. The US has about 10 times the population of Canada. I had assumed that Gilead had north korean style borders and thus that was what explained Canada not being overwhelmed with refugees. But the way the American agent could just drive in and out of Gilead made the previous struggles to cross the border seem silly.

On the issue of Lawrence's wife, I can understand letting her die. 1. She almost spilled the secrets to the 2 wives. She almost told the High Commander's wife that they could take their kids to Canada. 2. She was going to go outside to try to get more kids to take to Canada. Its harsh, but she was a liability at this point. Obviously they have run out of the medication she needs. June probably assumed Lawrence would insist on getting his wife to doctors to try to save her. I get the impression he only wants to leave Gilead for her benefit. He would take her to doctors. If his wife is taken to doctors, she might accidently let it be known they were trying to take kids to Canada. I agree with you that now the reason Lawrence wanted to leave is gone, but i think I make a similar choice in that position. I would hate it if the show tried to redeem serena. But I fear it is happening. Serena advocated for this world and only turned against it when she was cut out of power. To me she is a very selfish character. I am glad Moira called her out on who she is.

I just want to complain as a Canadian, that we only get to see these episodes days after the premier in other countries. with that out of the way, something occurred to me, and i don't know if other people have mentioned it, but if the american agent managed to lead fred across the border to Canada, that means some portions of the border are undefended. Which makes sense given how long the border is, but this creates the problem of how easy the agent managed to slip into and out of Gilead. Eg. why doesnt everyone leave? second point, is Gilead has been describe as extremely militarily powerful. All of a sudden commanders can just be arrested? If we are being honest in the real world international laws are really only applied to weak nations. Powerful nations commit war crimes/crimes against humanity all the time and their officials are never arrested. Is gilead weak or strong?

I think Serena set Fred up after she saw how obsessed he was with June. I don't give her enough credit that she turned on him after the ceremony they forced on the Lawrences. I think Fred had managed to trick her into believing he loved her when they were in DC and that explains her behavior during that period. How ever after seen Fred interact with June she realized it was all a lie. That is when she set him up. I don't understand why if Canada had the courage to arrest Fred they didn't just do so the first time he entered Canada. Gilead's power is portrayed so inconsistently. One minute Canada is so scared of Gilead that they are considering an extradition treaty. The next minute they have the courage of arresting a commander. It's so inconsistent. There are tons of war criminals that walk around freely because they are backed by powerful governments. Is Gilead weak or is Gilead strong? And if Gilead is a weak Nation why has it not been toppled yet?

I think you give Serena we way too much credit. She is a villian and for some reason many viewers can't accept that. I think it's because of her physical appearance. In my interpretation she came back from DC with renewed vigor for Gilead. When she saw all of the children in commander Winslow's family she was convinced. She even says to June at the Lincoln Memorial that she will go back home (meaning the Lawrence household) and they will stay in DC. I think Fred genuinely tricked her back with his lies in dc. Then she saw how he was still obsessed with June and jealous of Lawrence to such an extent it overrode his cowardice and caused him to challenge Lawrence. This made her realize her dreams of children and a happy marriage were impossible and caused her switch. To me Serena is an intensely selfish character.

You make a great point I hadn't fully realized. Lawrence redecorating his house and having to go to meetings shows that he has lost a lot of his previous power within the Boston area. in the past he was so important that he was above a lot of the rules and could hoard art and music. The commanders would also have to go to him. I guess the implication here is Fred's connection to the high Commander has given him a huge boost in power. I disagree with another part of your post. I don't fully understand the hesitancy to risk your life for handmaids in this society. Why do they care if they get put on the wall? What part of their life is still worth living? I don't feel this way about any other member of this society, but handmaid's have had their children stolen and are ritualistically raped on a monthly basis and are forced to murder people, who are probably working towards goals they would be sympathetic towards. Eg. Why do they fear the wall? Will they miss the ceremony, participating in executions, the salvagings, the beatings, the torture, never seeing their children, having their future children born of rape and being stolen from them? Even if June is going to get them killed, at this point what's the big deal?

Can somebody explain to me why Commander Lawrence decided to help found Gilead? Based on what the high Commander (George) said Lawrence was instrumental in founding Gilead. Also before the founding of Gilead they used to be golf buddies. so far from what I've seen Lawrence is the only one of these commanders that seems to have any genuine affection for his wife. I think one of the major reasons he doesn't like the ceremony is because it hurts his wife. I just don't get Lawrence. One minute he seems like a decent person. The next minute he seems like a monster. Why has he taken part in running Gilead. Eg. Plotting the military assault on Chicago a few episodes ago. Does anyone else think Serena is trying to set up Fred? I think Fred managed to charm her back when they were in DC. However she saw how Fred was still obsessed with June and realized everything he told to her in DC was a lie. I think Serena was okay with the ceremony when she believed Fred was just doing the physical act. I think any emotions bother Serena much more. Seeing Fred so preoccupied with June made her realize that all of his words about loving her were lies.

In both the books and the show there is a class of people called econo-people. The women are referred to as Econo-wives. In the books Handmaid's wear red, wives wear blue, Martha's wear green, and Econo-women wear all three colors because they serve all three roles. Do you remember in season 2 when June was escaping? There was a black man that picked her up from the Boston Globe. That guy was an Econo person. His wife was an Econo woman. Basically Gilead forces Econo women to live the lives they lived in the pre 1940s. They are basically forced out of the paid workforce. The impression I've gotten is it would be an exaggeration to say the US is at war with Gilead. from what we've been shown of the US government in Anchorage they are more comparable to the government of Charles de Gaulle during world War II. they have been totally forced out of their country and are largely powerless. I think the resistance in US is largely independent from the government in Anchorage. They are like the French Resistance fighting the Vichy government/Nazi Germany. The few times we've seen the US government they seem to have lost all military capabilities. To me this is the only logical way Gilead could exist. If you think about it killing every person in Congress wouldn't put you in control of the northeast of the United States. In the real world the US has continuation of government plans that include passing power to governors of states. the only plausible explanation of how the sons of Jacob established control over the US after attacking Congress is that they had cooperation within the US Military. I've always believed the only plausible explanation of Gilead is that it was largely a military coup that founded it. Eg. If the sons of Jacob had destroyed Congress without Military support then the hundreds of thousands of US troops stationed overseas would have been brought back to liberate the Northeast from them. Also the resistance seems to lie entirely on guerrilla/asymmetric warfare tactics. Eg. Suicide bombings, creating improvised explosives but using former high school chemistry teachers. To me this indicates that they don't have many conventional military assets. Eg. Main battle tanks, fighter jets, bombers, artillery, etc. Also also the US government in Anchorage has never attempted to recruit a military force among the American refugees.