S32.E04: Signed, Sealed, And Delivered

[LanceM]

The thing I am curious about is if any of them were allowed to drink their water during the challenge. They all definitely had their canteens when they arrived at the challenge. Though I can see some of the players not wanting to stop for even a second during the digging to even try to hydrate a little rather than giving up a chance to win.

[Big Mother]

That seems like the kind of clause that might apply to standard "back at camp" situations, but in an emergency? That's a completely ridiculous clause, if it's true. 

 

I missed the beginning of the show on Wed, so I just saw this part now as I was reading the comments so I too looked for Dr Peter and honestly, where was he? I'm not even saying "why wasn't he helping" but where was he in the group? I saw every single other person in one group shot or another but couldn't see him anywhere. Weird.

 

ETA: just saw ren's picture above with the sighting of Dr. Peter. LOL at the staging of that photo! 2 other teammates hovering over Debbie while he's reclining in the sand like he's at the beach, holding an umbrella over his OWN head and looking away. Classic.

 

 

I could never get over how much Caleb reminded me of Tobey Maguire (albeit a better-looking version). Hope he gets another shot to play. 

 

ETA:

 

My main issue with Probst's narration this time around was when he was talking to a still in-danger Caleb and kind of rubbing his nose in the fact that he was getting pulled from the game. Like, let the guy focus on trying not to die rather than the fact that his shot at a million dollars is gone. "This is as far as you're going to go..." just didn't seem necessary in that moment. 

 

 

Two things. First of all, if Caleb were indeed feeling perfectly fine by that evening, I wouldve felt bad that he was unncessarily pulled from the game. As it turns out, he was VERY sick. He was in the ICU for five and a half days. It took 3 days and 8 bags of saline for him to finally feel a little stronger. After he left the hospital and went to Ponderosa, the drs felt it was best if he flew home. There was no a/c at Ponderosa and over 100 degrees. His best friend died while he was in Cambodia so he wanted to fly home and deal with that too. Poor guy.

 

As for Probst, I'm amazed at how much criticism he's getting. The man handled the crisis PERFECTLY. A perfect mix of not-losing-himself, being helpful, narrating what was going on, and providing reassurance. he absolutely did the right thing by pausing to tell Caleb he was being pulled. otherwise Caleb wouldve never really had closure over him being pulled, AND, don't forget that Caleb's life wasn't in IMMEDIATE danger and they were able to spare sixty seconds so he could get the footage he needed . nothing wrong with that. A person can't be transferred to a stretcher until they're more stable, and he was allowed to let Caleb know. Otherwise Caleb would've been even more upset than he was when he woke up in an ambulance surrounded by a bunch of Cambodian medics who spoke no English.

I am no fan of Peter and have dogged him here but I wonder if they had to keep the tribes apart? I noticed there was no "intermingling" even when the challenge was over. Can anyone confirm if other tribes were around with screenshots?

 

Something *is* off about this challenge.

 

yes, theyre not permitted to intermingle with other contestants.

 

and I reiterate, Dr. Peter was in no shape to take care of anyone, PLUS there was plenty of help there and his presence wouldn't have helped. I'm pretty sure he was told not to help,

The thing I am curious about is if any of them were allowed to drink their water during the challenge. They all definitely had their canteens when they arrived at the challenge. Though I can see some of the players not wanting to stop for even a second during the digging to even try to hydrate a little rather than giving up a chance to win.

From what I've seen in previouis seasons, theyre not allowed to drink water during the challenge, they  have to wait until they're done. I wonder if any of them asked production if they could have water, once they started feeling weak?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Big Mother

[Eolivet]

Unfortunately it has been confirmed that it was just a reward challenge, based on the date / time stamps: it was a day after the Brains Tribal council. but it's okay. Caleb still rocks in my books :)

 

The way he handled his exit press yesterday has just raised him in my eyes. I was his smallest fan on BB. I'm impressed by how he's changed.

 

Thanks. I wouldn't have believed a date/time stamp from the show unless I saw raw camera footage, but I did go back and rewatch the introduction. You're right -- it's unfortunately a reward challenge -- no overdubbing or cutting in Probst's narration when he describes the stakes.

 

After rewatching the whole challenge, I put this down to a massive production fail that was clearly preventable. Rewatching it, there do seem to be a couple of clinicians (or at least doctor types who are capable of attending to contestants. One has a stethoscope and is listening to Cydney's heart the same time as the other, clearly lead guy is working on Caleb). I still think they needed to have more clinicians on staff, but they didn't have one and a bunch of the catering crew, as I'd initially feared.

 

But production? What in god's name were you thinking?! The challenge design with two digging elements (and no water elements) on a massively hot day was bad enough. But then when it went 45 minutes without anyone finding three bags? Three brightly colored bags buried in shallow holes?

 

Conservatively, one could've stopped the challenge there or gone into a Jeff overdub that said "First team to find one bag of balls moves on" (instead of three). But devil's advocate, say they keep playing until someone wins. So, fine -- Brains win the challenge. But when Debbie doesn't feel well and medical is called in the first time? Stop. The. Challenge. Why did they let them keep playing?! You can hear Caleb rolling balls in the background as they're attending to Debbie. Who knows if they had cut it off then, maybe Caleb wouldn't have gotten so exhausted that he almost died.

 

Frighteningly, Cydney started convulsing while Caleb was still laboring to breathe. They got very, very lucky that intensive measures were only needed for Caleb. I don't even want to know what would've happened if it was two people who needed that care. They might've had the bare minimum of personnel, but did they have enough supplies? Would we have had production assistants putting in I.V.s and managing patients?

 

I seriously hope that after production dropped to the ground and thanked their lucky stars that they didn't kill someone, they instituted safety rules for the challenges from now on. Here's an easy one: When someone needs medical, the challenge stops. Period. I'll take a slightly altered viewing experience where I know everyone is safe over seeing someone almost die on camera while maintaining the "integrity of the show."

[kakiphony]

By the time she employed that tactic, Scot was just sitting doing nothing. I don't think that is a terribly effective strategy frankly, so I don't know what issue he would have with what is likely a more effective method than sitting on his ass.

 

Obviously, I am only seeing edited versions, so not the hour plus the digging portion went on, but from what I saw it, looked like Scot, Kyle, and Cydney were all digging deep and wide whereas Alecia was digging shallowly with her feet. This probably covered more surface area, but didn't get as deep, and whether she had as much sensation/ability to feel for the bags with her feet is debatable. (I wouldn't, but my brother with monkey toes probably would have been fine using his feet.) I suspect that Scot was taking a short break. The heat was clearly brutal, and sitting in the hot sand for that long, let alone digging, would have made constant movement at a steady rate pretty hard.

 

 

They try these things out don't they, and Brain tribe found theirs quickly. I wonder if the other two teams just had a very poor strategy. In particular, Brawn seemed to start in the middle and dig really deep. That could mean they were moving a lot of sand they didn't need to, and mutltiple times (the center sand is now covering the outer ring sand, so you've got to move it all again.).

 

There was elapsed time of 45 minutes shown on the screen before Brains found all three of their bags. I thought the bags were buried more deeply than usual, and all three teams seemed to struggle with finding them, although Brawn clearly struggled the most -- possibly because they had fewer members. I can't tell whether Alecia's foot method was effective or not, but her hot and frustrated teammates clearly found it not to be. Should we take there word for that, or assume it was their dislike of her that caused their attitudes? I sort of suspect it was a mix of both.

 

Yeah, if I had the option between trained (probably local) medics and an heat-exhausted, dehydrated ER doc, I'll take the medic. There's no way to know that Peter was thinking clearly and quickly enough to make any life-or-death medical decision at that time.

 

I don't know about that. Usually, people keep digging way past where we ever expect the bags to be buried. Once one bag is uncovered, I'd never go below that level, assuming they're probably all at about that depth. They don't want them digging to China - it's about covering the most square footage searching, not digging the deepest.

 

Generally, I agree, but the elapsed time and level of difficulty all three teams had in recovering the bags leads me to believe these were not as easy to find as usual. Whether that was because they were buried more deeply, or because the players were so hot that they were having trouble thinking straight to strategize he best way to hunt is something I'm not entirely sure about, even after a re-watch.

Edited March 11, 2016 by kakiphony

[Eolivet]

I don't fault TPTB for putting together that challenge.  They've had plenty of other challenges in the past that involve digging in the sand to find items and they never seem to take that long.  I don't think they could have predicted that it would take two tribes that long to find the bags (and it didn't take Brains anywhere near that long).

 

As others have said, it took Brains 45 minutes to find all three balls. This is where I think production's failure was: they have no control over how contestants will respond to the challenge design, but they can absolutely control when to cut off a challenge. I've read interviews where Probst says we'll hear "First team to 3" because it was originally "First team to 5," but they all sucked at the game. They could've gone in and told the teams to start doing the ball rolling and just handed them balls from the sidelines and no viewer would've been the wiser. We'd have thought it was first team to find two bags and then just seen the teams doing the ball rolling part. Plus it was only a reward challenge.

 

And if they can't tell what a potentially dangerous situation looks like for themselves, they need to have medical personnel on the sidelines, advising them that when contestants have been digging holes in the hot sand for 45 minutes without success, they need to be hydrated or rested or something, so that they don't need medical in the first place.

[piequinn35]

Yes that RC sucked, I wonder if the dream team did the challenge at 8am or 5pm which is not that hot, and of course they were not dehydrated

while the contestants did it perhaps at noon which is extremely hot at the tropics plus they were dehydrated and exhausted.

All of this for spices, coffee, wok, etc. and not immunity

[iMonrey]

 

So maybe there is some truth to the idea that they need to cast some crazies or jerks to keep people interested.

 

That's another misconception in casting. Just because something or someone "gets people talking" doesn't mean they like what they see. And just because nobody is commenting on a particular group or contestant doesn't mean they aren't interested. It's the old "any publicity is good publicity" mentality, with which I strongly disagree. But reality show producers are resolute in their belief that drama = ratings. And they're probably right, but personally I would prefer they didn't deliberately cast people they know to be mentally unhinged or deficient just for the sake of getting people talking about all the shit that's going down.

 

 

Caleb mustve been confused bc in all of his interviews today he implied it was an immunity challenge. he was probably confused...

 

Those that watched him on Big Brother can confirm the boy is just not real bright. I say that as a somewhat fan, or at least, defender of his. You've undoubtedly read he was "stalkerish" with another houseguest, or "creepy." The fact is that his "friends" in that house deliberately encouraged him to believe the girl in question liked him back and - he's just not very bright. He seems like a nice, decent guy, but no way is he qualified to ever make the Brains tribe. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by iMonrey

[blackwing]

Obviously, I am only seeing edited versions, so not the hour plus the digging portion went on, but from what I saw it, looked like Scot, Kyle, and Cydney were all digging deep and wide whereas Alecia was digging shallowly with her feet. This probably covered more surface area, but didn't get as deep, and whether she had as much sensation/ability to feel for the bags with her feet is debatable. (I wouldn't, but my brother with monkey toes probably would have been fine using his feet.) I suspect that Scot was taking a short break. The heat was clearly brutal, and sitting in the hot sand for that long, let alone digging, would have made constant movement at a steady rate pretty hard.

 

There was elapsed time of 45 minutes shown on the screen before Brains found all three of their bags. I thought the bags were buried more deeply than usual, and all three teams seemed to struggle with finding them, although Brawn clearly struggled the most -- possibly because they had fewer members. I can't tell whether Alecia's foot method was effective or not, but her hot and frustrated teammates clearly found it not to be. Should we take there word for that, or assume it was their dislike of her that caused their attitudes? I sort of suspect it was a mix of both.

All of the teams had four members for that challenge.  Brains had to sit one member (Neal) and Beauty had to sit two.  I can't recall if she was using the "foot method" from the start.  I don't think she was.  I thought she dug right in with her hands like the rest of them.  But after 45 minutes, they were all tired.  I saw Scot and Kyle both resting on their knees.  Alecia was kicking sand with her foot.  I don't see why that was so poor.  It's better to kick the sand with your feet and hope you snag on the bag or string that someone missed, than not do anything at all.  I have a feeling that they were complaining about her not helping simply because it was her.  She could have found them the bags and they still would have complained about her and voted her out.  They simply just hated her.

 

As for Probst, I'm amazed at how much criticism he's getting. The man handled the crisis PERFECTLY. A perfect mix of not-losing-himself, being helpful, narrating what was going on, and providing reassurance. he absolutely did the right thing by pausing to tell Caleb he was being pulled. otherwise Caleb wouldve never really had closure over him being pulled, AND, don't forget that Caleb's life wasn't in IMMEDIATE danger and they were able to spare sixty seconds so he could get the footage he needed . nothing wrong with that. A person can't be transferred to a stretcher until they're more stable, and he was allowed to let Caleb know. Otherwise Caleb would've been even more upset than he was when he woke up in an ambulance surrounded by a bunch of Cambodian medics who spoke no English.

and I reiterate, Dr. Peter was in no shape to take care of anyone, PLUS there was plenty of help there and his presence wouldn't have helped. I'm pretty sure he was told not to help,

 

Disagree about Probst.  He was clearly still in "game show host" mode.  He was announcing things with the same tone and voice like he usually does on challenges.  "And Spencer lands face first on the platform!  That one is going to HURT!"  It was just like that.  He was flitting around from downed person to downed person.  He seemed more concerned about T3H DRAHMAZZ.  He's just the game show host.  I think it would have been better if someone from production (whoever is in charge out there) would have come out to talk with medical and deal with them rather than have Jeffy bouncing around and acting almost like he was excited that there was "excitement" for that day.  A man almost DIED for salt and pepper.

 

I still also disagree about Peter.  He might have been tired and exhausted but clearly he was in no health danger.  He still retains all of his voluminous knowledge and is still the smartest guy in the room in his mind.  When people are sick and in danger, I wouldn't care about "rules".  I would have insisted that I am an ER doctor and have seen heat stroke and heat exhaustion and in these conditions, it could be life threatening, please let me help.  At the very least, he could have given guidance.  I don't buy his "oh, uh, I told them about the ocean, but they didn't hear me".  The only reason why they didn't hear him was because he didn't make an effort to make himself be heard.  He could have told Neal, who was fully rested, to go pass on a message to the medical team.

[ljenkins782]

I think they're not allowed to interact with other tribes, though we've seen people shout things at challenges (Tasha to Varner, for one).

 

I also think that TPTB probably strongly encouraged him to not help.

I give him a pass in this context given that there were others rendering aid, he is contractually bound to CBS, and he is in a foreign country.  I know doctors traveling abroad are not licensed to practice medicine in many (most?) other countries without a special dispensation (for mission work, for instance).  I think that the "is there a doctor on the plane" type of thing usually involves indemnity covered by the airline.

 

The challenge was an egregious act against all that’s good, because some folks couldn't handle the heat. But Peter is the worst ever because, after fighting through the same heat that had people on the edge of consciousness, he didn't push aside the trained medical staff and take over. Weird.

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Peter should have taken CHARGE of the medical situation. What I personally found interesting is that while other tribemates were pouring water or at least holding the hand of/being supportive of the fallen teammate on their tribe (since each of the 3 tribes had a downed member, the "can't help other tribes" thing doesn't have to be a factor), the photo posted upthread shows Peter lounging under an umbrella with his head turned away from Debbie, who's still on the ground. 

 

And of course, one photograph isn't telling the whole story (nor is the edited show that we saw), but they showed a lot of footage of each collapse and Peter is nowhere to be found in the heat of the moment (no pun intended). Not offering water, not asking any questions, just not there when everyone else is huddled around. It struck me as weird. 

[ghoulina]

This cracked me up!  He looked so awkward in those group hugs after Caleb's chopper left.  Like, "I wonder how long I should submit to embracing these earthlings so they don't suspect my extraterrestrial origins..."

 

HA! His face remind me of Harry Burns (When Harry Met Sally) - "how long do you have hold them after? An hour? All night?" 

 

That really sucked, especially since he likely recovered by that evening and that reward wasn't worth losing his shot at the million.

 

Apparently he spent 5 days in ICU, so I guess he would not have been up for playing any time soon. It's just really jarring, because he looked like one of the fittest people out there. 

[Alapaki]

The reason I consider Deb a swing vote is that my perception of the last TC is that the Pete/Liz alliance and the Neil/Aubrey alliance were trying to target each other, using Deb and Joe as the necessary 3rd/4th votes.

Deb thought she and/or Joe would be targets, but they were actually 100% safe because the other 4 viewed Deb (at least) as a goat.

Deb thinks she turned the tables and dictated the outcome. While she did dictate the outcome by deciding which alliance (Pete/Liz vs Neil/Aubrey) would survive, it was not for the reason she thought.

I DO believe that Deb was smart to approach Pete after the TC.

[marys1000]

From an exit interview on CBS 7 things Alecia wants you to know

 

Alecia:  In the first couple of episodes, most of the stuff they said was in the interviews, but none of it was said to my face. In Episode 4 when they started being mean to my face, thats when I addressed the situation.

 

Later she goes on to say she can stick up for herself and it wasn't that bad and that she wants people to know she is and was fine.  Which, as much as I can't stand her, was nice to say.

 

Not sure if I remember this right but I think I read on reddit that  Peter who herniated a disk in his back a day or two before the game started.  Certainly can't tell so far but I wonder if that's why he was laying in the sand.  He's a Dr. but that doesn't mean he wasn't about to go down for the count himself.  Maybe he thought the best way to help was just to make sure he didn't become a problem.  And how much heat stroke do Dr.s in Minneapolis see anyway?  No particular feelings about this one way or another, just putting it out there.

Edited March 11, 2016 by marys1000

[vibeology]

And if they can't tell what a potentially dangerous situation looks like for themselves, they need to have medical personnel on the sidelines, advising them that when contestants have been digging holes in the hot sand for 45 minutes without success, they need to be hydrated or rested or something, so that they don't need medical in the first place.

 

Finding out that the contestants can't have water during the challenge is the real eye-opener for me. That's crazy. There is no benefit to the contestant to stop playing and take a drink if they feel that's necessary. It should always be an option to get some water. Always. Most people won't take advantage in most challenges since it'll cost them time, but in a challenge like this one where its dragging, I'm sure some people would. (And honestly, imagine the drama if Alecia had gone for water an hour in, for example. You'd think the show would like that.) I think its crazy not to let them have water considering the conditions they're playing in.

[Turtle]

I had mixed feelings about Caleb on BB - on one hand, he had some pretty offensive social media posts pre-show and was super creepy and clueless about Amber; on the other hand, he always seemed more child-like than malicious, had some genuinely hilarious moments, and seemed well-liked by everyone. I never really knew how I felt about him. All that to say - the one thing I know about Caleb with 100% certainty is that he tells some taaaallllll tales. A lot of them. Like, always. Not necessarily with any conscious intent to deceive, but more like a five year old telling you that there were THOUSANDS of REAL COWBOYS at his birthday party, and he rode FASTER than all of them and lassoed ALL OF THE COWS. It's possible that some of the details of Caleb's story about almost dying for immunity (and not just reward) and spending five days in ICU and his organs shitting down may not be 100% verifiable. He does tell a good story, though.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Turtle

[KimberStormer]

Alapaki, on 11 Mar 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

The reason I consider Deb a swing vote is that my perception of the last TC is that the Pete/Liz alliance and the Neil/Aubrey alliance were trying to target each other, using Deb and Joe as the necessary 3rd/4th votes.

Deb thought she and/or Joe would be targets, but they were actually 100% safe because the other 4 viewed Deb (at least) as a goat.

Deb thinks she turned the tables and dictated the outcome. While she did dictate the outcome by deciding which alliance (Pete/Liz vs Neil/Aubrey) would survive, it was not for the reason she thought.

I DO believe that Deb was smart to approach Pete after the TC.

 

As far as I can remember, Neal and Aubry were not targeting Liz and Pete.  They were planning to vote Joe (Remember, Neal was all about the "get rid of the olds" mentality) until Debbie approached them with the fact that Liz and Pete wanted Neal gone.  It was Debbie all the way to get rid of Liz and Pete--Aubry and Neal were her bottom-of-the-alliance pickup votes (if you want to even think of it that way on a 6-person tribe!  Doesn't make much sense to me, 4 is pretty darn close to final 3 and there's a month left to get there in.)  I never saw any indication that Aubry and Neal wanted to use her as a goat, or were coming to her and Joe with anything.  So I think, instead of choosing between two competeing alliances (and anyway a 2-person swing block is a much different story than a 1-person swing vote) Debbie was choosing between minions on a "what's better for my game" basis.

 

I think it's unusual for the leader of one alliance to be picked as a tool/goat for the other alliance, usually things are pretty clear-cut in the beginning and revolts happen later in the merge, but that's pretty much what happened here.  It's a good example of how interesting the small-tribe Survivor is in the earliest section of a 3-tribe season.  Unfortunately we usually get one tribe sucking completely (Matsing, original Brains, current Brawn) which kind of lessens the interestingness.  But the more seasons we see the more these dynamics can reveal themselves and they're pretty great IMO.

[Turtle]

I'm pretty sure that Fishbach or others have said that they are allowed water during challenges but that we never see it because drama. Maybe that's just during stamina challenges that have built in phases or something. I also could be wrong. In this case, though, even with occasional water breaks, they needed to stop all activity and get in the damn shade for a few. But, I can also see how people watching the challenge, even the medical staff, might not have realized how bad the situation was because the digging probably looked like not too much strenuous, or at least not constant, activity, compared to some of the challenges when they're running up stairs nonstop or something. It was a disaster, though, and I think the show was irresponsible in letting it happen.

Up thread, someone reminded me of Joe and Keith collapsing last season, and seeing this episode makes that episode seem even worse. Show runners had JUST seen people have serious issues with staying out in that heat, on that same beach, and still weren't attuned to the signs that Keith and especially Joe were in trouble.

I can't hate on Peter for not acting more doctorly in the moment (although I have other reasons!). We didn't see everything that happened or if he was told to stand back, we don't know how he was feeling, we have no idea if he's a competent doctor, and I think it is possible that his employer/ insurer expressly forbade him from practicing medicine on the island. Committing malpractice on camera is a big no-no.

[cooksdelight]

Later she goes on to say she can stick up for herself and it wasn't that bad and that she wants people to know she is and was fine. Which, as much as I can't stand her, was nice to say.

That is different from what was posted earlier in this thread about her trashing the two guys on Twitter or wherever. I can never understand the motivation of these people sometimes.

[slowpoked]

Up thread, someone reminded me of Joe and Keith collapsing last season, and seeing this episode makes that episode seem even worse. Show runners had JUST seen people have serious issues with staying out in that heat, on that same beach, and still weren't attuned to the signs that Keith and especially Joe were in trouble.

 

And what's worse, according to Joe, he was suggesting to Jeffy that they move the challenge along, like add another pole or do something else, so someone could finally win and the challenge would have ended. But no, they prioritized DRAMA!

[MrsR]

On rewatch you can see that Caleb's body temp went up to 113.  Yikes!  Could that be right?  Or was that his heart rate?

 

 

[howiveaddict]

What I didn't understand, was why didn't those that were able run get into the ocean ( which was close by) to cool off, after the challenge was flinished?  That would have helped them to cool off.

I think this is the first time that I have seen the cast given bottled water to drink that was not conected to a reward.

[ByaNose]

I think Debbie got help faster because Peter the ER doc saw she was heading for trouble and alerted med team before she became critical. The other two, people were trying to help and only called for help when things got bad.

Now, getting back to the challenge. I think TPTB should institute a rule that after say 30 mins in a hot climac all contestants need to stop, hydrate, cool down and then Re-start the challenge.

I thought it was Joe who alerted Jeff and thus medical? Anyway, I was glad she recovered and made them aware she was okay and look at the other patients.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ByaNose

[innocuouspuff]

I still also disagree about Peter. He might have been tired and exhausted but clearly he was in no health danger. He still retains all of his voluminous knowledge and is still the smartest guy in the room in his mind. When people are sick and in danger, I wouldn't care about "rules". I would have insisted that I am an ER doctor and have seen heat stroke and heat exhaustion and in these conditions, it could be life threatening, please let me help.

Sorry but this sounds hella creepy to me. If Peter had started grabbing equipment and begging and ranting about how he HAS to help and is the only person on a crowded beach qualified to do so, they would have assumed they had a fourth heat stroke victim in their hands.

North American doctors are primarily diagnosticians and in some contexts surgeons. Neither skill was actually needed during this emergency. An MD doesn't make him the only one qualified to put ice under someone's armpits - is he going to lay hands like Jesus? And being aware of his non-divinity doesn't make him a terrible person.

And I don't even like him, lol.

[blackwing]

Sorry but this sounds hella creepy to me. If Peter had started grabbing equipment and begging and ranting about how he HAS to help and is the only person on a crowded beach qualified to do so, they would have assumed they had a fourth heat stroke victim in their hands.

North American doctors are primarily diagnosticians and in some contexts surgeons. Neither skill was actually needed during this emergency. An MD doesn't make him the only one qualified to put ice under someone's armpits - is he going to lay hands like Jesus? And being aware of his non-divinity doesn't make him a terrible person.

And I don't even like him, lol.

Nobody said anything about him grabbing equipment and "taking over" or saying he was the only person who could help. Most of the comments here have expressed surprise that he didn't even attempt to make any diligent effort to help. He sat there under an umbrella and claimed he tried to say something "but they didn't hear me".

And I would agree more with you regarding his qualifications if he was, say, a dermatologist or an obstetrician. But this man is an ER doctor. This kind of emergency is among the things he should be trained for. I would think that recognising and treating heat stroke and heat exhaustion would be among the basic things he learned during his first year of residency.

[henripootel]

North American doctors are primarily diagnosticians and in some contexts surgeons. Neither skill was actually needed during this emergency.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here - an ER doctor was exactly what they needed during this emergency.  These things don't just hit you like a thunderbolt - people start to show symptoms of heat exhaustion before they collapse.  And it's easy enough to treat in early stages - cool off, drink water.  One wonders if this is what Peter meant in his twitter quote, but rules or no rules, he's a fucking MD.  In a crisis, you do your job and worry about the consequences later.  

AND, don't forget that Caleb's life wasn't in IMMEDIATE danger and they were able to spare sixty seconds so he could get the footage he needed

I simply can't disagree more.  First, Probst didn't know if Caleb was in immediate danger or not (and it turns out he absolutely was).  Second Probst is not fucking qualified to say if anyone is in danger or not.  Third, only in la-la land does 'getting the shot' come anywhere on a list of priorities in a crisis.  If safety isn't the top priority for these assholes, it really doesn't matter what's in second place.  He has no more right to delay a contestant's treatment for even one second than you do to stop an ambulance so you can take a selfie.  He merely has the opportunity to do so, and a financial motive.  I agree with whomever said that Probst should thank god on bended knee that nobody died here.

 

Apologies for the strident tone - I've seen bad things happen because nobody seemed to take the situation seriously, so now I take these things seriously.  The most frightening thing I saw here was that everyone seemed kinda slow on the uptake that something was really wrong, not the least of indications of this - people had to start collapsing before they took much notice.  They let it get this far before doing much of anything.  That's the shocking part.

Edited March 12, 2016 by henripootel

[innocuouspuff]

And I would agree more with you regarding his qualifications if he was, say, a dermatologist or an obstetrician. But this man is an ER doctor. This kind of emergency is among the things he should be trained for. I would think that recognising and treating heat stroke and heat exhaustion would be among the basic things he learned during his first year of residency.

I'm not saying he doesn't know what a heat stroke is, but everyone *already* knew it was heat stroke and what to do. Even ER doctors mostly diagnose, in my experience. And then they say, nurse, put some ice on him, let's a try a dose of xyz, whatever. Which was already happening so I guess I don't understand what Peter was supposed to think only he, specifically, could accomplish. And insisting they had to let him help, however redundantly, would imply some kind of God complex to me.

idk, we've all got fundamentally different opinions of what a doctor even is, apparently. I would't expect Peter to start insisting anything any more than I expect Probst to grab the mic from the emcee at every wedding he goes to. Although Probst, so who knows.

Edited March 12, 2016 by innocuouspuff

[violet and green]

Well, he could have looked concerned. He could have been turned towards Debbie, for example, showing his concern, regardless of how popped* he was. He could have put a hand on her shoulder and said reasuring things, placed the shade over her in a concerned way, fanned her, or spoken reassuringly to the rest of the team, told them everything was in hand, the medics were there. Any of that sort of thing that someone with a heart, plus medical training, would have done fairly effortlessly, i would have thought.. 

 

*pooped!

Edited March 12, 2016 by violet and green

[innocuouspuff]

Well as you point out he doesn't actually need medical training for any of that. And it's definitely not something he is encouraged to do in the ER while other patients suffer in the waiting room. Sorry I guess this is one of my pet peeves but doctors are people! With all types of different personalities, just like people. My favourite doctor of the million that I see is a shy science nerd type. He would have quietly sat in the corner with his umbrella, too. Peter not demanding centre stage or being a very comforting type of person just is not too offensive to me.

Edited March 12, 2016 by innocuouspuff

[blackwing]

I'm not saying he doesn't know what a heat stroke is, but everyone *already* knew it was heat stroke and what to do. Even ER doctors mostly diagnose, in my experience. And then they say, nurse, put some ice on him, let's a try a dose of xyz, whatever. Which was already happening so I guess I don't understand what Peter was supposed to think only he, specifically, could accomplish. And insisting they had to let him help, however redundantly, would imply some kind of God complex to me.

idk, we've all got fundamentally different opinions of what a doctor even is, apparently. I would't expect Peter to start insisting anything any more than I expect Probst to grab the mic from the emcee at every wedding he goes to. Although Probst, so who knows.

I guess I'm confused. I think most people would say that "what a doctor even is" is somebody who went to medical school and works as a practising physician. He works as an ER doctor and has skills and knowledge that most people don't have.

Well as you point out he doesn't actually need medical training for any of that. And it's definitely not something he is encouraged to do in the ER while other patients suffer in the waiting room. Sorry I guess this is one of my pet peeves but doctors are people! With all types of different personalities, just like people. My favourite doctor of the million that I see is a shy science nerd type. He would have quietly sat in the corner with his umbrella, too. Peter not demanding centre stage or being a very comforting type of person just is not too offensive to me.

Yes, doctors are people. But my criticism of his inaction is based in part because the Peter we saw a few episodes ago was anything but a "shy science nerd type". Peter was going on and on about how good looking he is and how smart he is and how much he and Liz were in control of the game. He was very much a take charge person, and dictated to Joe and Debbie how they were going to vote. Because he said so. And in the first episode, he was going on about how the "old people" were liabilities. Never mind that he at 35 isn't exactly young and never mind that he looks 50.

The Peter we saw a few episodes ago was a very different Peter than the one last night who we saw sitting down and appearing seemingly indifferent to everyone else's fate but his own. It was as if he was still pissed off that people dared to go against him the previous vote, and therefore, he just couldn't bring himself to care.

I know that it could be said that he was tired and exhausted, but many others were tired and exhausted as well. Per Peter, Joe is practically knocking on death's door. And yet he did everything he could to help his friend and teammate. Kyle was shown to be exhausted as well. I'm quite confident he know very little about medicine. But he was right there comforting Cydney and holding her hand and telling her she was going to be ok.

I would have thought a doctor would have exhibited more of a basic concern for another human being. But I guess it was Debbie, and she's old and wouldn't obey him in the previous vote, so screw her, eh?

Peter is a jackass.

[innocuouspuff]

I guess I'm confused. I think most people would say that "what a doctor even is" is somebody who went to medical school and works as a practising physician. He works as an ER doctor and has skills and knowledge that most people don't have.

Yes, works being the operative word there for me. Not, practices medicine every freaking where whether it's wanted or useful or not. Castaway Joe worked in the Air Force so maybe he could have insisted on using his skills other people don't have to help with the chopper, we could probably go down the list for most of the day jobs out there. Though perhaps not Alecia, bless her heart.

The folks who *were* at work managed the situation once they realised what was happening. Anyway we're probably about to start talking in circles on this but hopefully that is clearer. Doctors who think their special knowledge means everyone should listen to them always about everything are the kind to trust the least, so while it is certainly possible Peter wanted Debbie to suffer, it is also possible he has more sides to his personality than the one that gives obnoxious confessionals.

Now I've defended him a lot, ugh. Hee. The confessionals are indeed super obnoxious!

Edited March 12, 2016 by innocuouspuff

[violet and green]

Well as you point out he doesn't actually need medical training for any of that. 

 

Actually, I said 'someone with a heart, plus medical training' - my implication was Peter is somewhat lacking in the empathy dept.

 

If even horrid old Brawn man can manage to provide care in this situation, you would hope a medical professional might also.

[RedheadZombie]

I just noticed that the guy who started the IV wasn't wearing gloves. That reflects how rattled they were. They didn't protect themselves.

After the first team won, there is no way that I would have risked heat exhaustion for for the second place reward of........

 

Salt & Pepper

  

I wouldn't risk my life either. But the salt is more important than simply improving the taste of their food. The added salt to their diet will retain fluid and help with dehydration.

On rewatch you can see that Caleb's body temp went up to 113.  Yikes!  Could that be right?  Or was that his heart rate?

The numbers on the monitor represented BP, HR, MAP, and oxygen saturation. The monitor is a defibrillator, and I'm almost positive it doesn't have the capability to take temperatures. They would have been using a separate thermometer.

And to the poster who stated Cydney was having "convulsions", that's not what was happening. She never lost consciousness or ability to communicate. She was in the same shape as Debbie, just louder about it. Sort of how some people with kidney stones curl up and stay silent, while others are moaning and screaming.

[sally-can-wait]

I remember his overrated Kansas Jayhawks, supposedly the best team in the country, being dismissed by my Arizona Wildcats in 1997. He had 4 fouls and 0 points. They should have put a cheerleader in for him. Does that count? http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1997-03-21-arizona.html

While I can understand you disdain for Scot, you saying that 1997 Kansas team was overrated is ridiculous. It was one of the greatest teams the Jayhawks ever had (only losing 2 games all year) and one of the best never to go all the way. He may suck as a person but that team he played for was fantastic. Are you a Missouri fan or something?

[Nashville]

Along with not being allowed to help as per the rules. He might not be able to help because of insurance/liability issues as well. Maybe he tried too and they told him to sit back down? If Caleb died because of something he told them to do, he could possibly be held responsible, same goes for his Tribe mate. I'm sure the doctors they have are heavily insured in case something like this were to ever happen.

 

Here's the thing:  Fauxbama is not a doctor; not right now, anyway.

• Unless Pete has a license to practice medicine in Cambodia - which would surprise the everlovin' shit outta me - he's just another American tourist.
• As such, anything beyond comfort and the most basic of first aid would be considered practicing medicine without a license - the evidence for which would be captured in glorious HD.
• I'd also be fairly certain Production impressed these facts upon him rather vehemently - because if Dr. DoLittle did feel compelled to say "To hell with it" and try treating someone for something AND Production did nothing to stop him, they'd likely be liable to accessory charges.

What is "Ranger School?" Is it school you go to to learn how to be a forest ranger? Honestly this woman's resume is so long she must change jobs every other week.

Given the source, I thought maybe to help one choose between an Amana and a Westinghouse...?

 

 

I'm not a doctor but two things I think are relevant on why the immersion in the ocean thing wouldn't work that well.

 

1) Heat transfer rate depends on difference in temperatures. So it's much faster to cool down with water that's really cold, as opposed to slightly below body temp.

 

2) Evaporation has significant cooling power. So drenching somebody but leaving them in air can be very useful. 

 

In extreme cases, immersion in ice water is the best treatment, but I think that's factor #1 outwaying #2. I don't think immersion is always the best thing.

 

Again, not a doctor, just guessing.

Not a doctor either - but in terms of dunking a heatstroke victim in ice water (or very cold water, at the least), I'd suspect the risk of shock or cardiac arrest might outweigh the cooling benefits.

Also - I've had more experience with hypothermia than with heatstroke (again, practical rather than medical).  Hypothermia patients are warmed VERY slowly rather than rapidly because when subjected to cold, blood flow in the extremities shuts down first; warming them too quickly can open up the extremity blood flow prematurely and pull warm blood out of the core.  It occurs to me the converse might be true - hit the extremities with excessively cold water, and overheated blood might get driven to the victim's core and spike his/her temperature even higher, with no way to disperse it.  Again, just speculation.

[Guest]

The Brawn tribe is probably thinking that's still better than the nothing they don't have at camp. At least you can gurgle with salt water. 

 

i dunno, obviously my common sense says stop playing the challenge for mere salt and pepper. That my life is infinitely more important than salt and pepper. But these guys have endured having almost nothing for what, 11 days, that I don't fault them for still pushing hard for items that in our comfortable lives, we take for granted everyday.

I think they all agree at the outset, even contractually probably, to virtually never give up in challenges, no matter if it's a blowout or hot or anything.  That doesn't favor a watchable show.

 

Isn't there like an ocean of salt water there?  

 

I was confused why they didn't cool the people in the ocean after the challenge but honestly I think it had to do with continuity.  I think everyone had to stay sand- and sweat- and dirt-covered until they were 100% definitely done getting challenge footage.  Back at their camps they all immediately got in the water and cleaned off, I think.  

 

I would've been dying to get that sand and dirt and sweat off me.  I would suck at Survivor for a hundred reasons.   

 

The thing I am curious about is if any of them were allowed to drink their water during the challenge. They all definitely had their canteens when they arrived at the challenge. Though I can see some of the players not wanting to stop for even a second during the digging to even try to hydrate a little rather than giving up a chance to win.

I'm positive they have untaped water breaks during challenges.  And notice that the doctors didn't even offer drinking water.  I guess if Caleb was dehydrated enough to soak up 7 IV bags before peeing that probably means he wasn't real smart about what to do during those water breaks.  Maybe the players are afraid to overdrink during challenges because no one's going to yell 'cut' so they can go pee?  

 

I'm glad Alecia's gone.  I don't like any of that tribe but she was a shit-stirrer and seemed to be out there for the exposure.  She's lucky she got the victim edit, if you ask me.  

[marys1000]

Pulled from Peter's twitter account

 

 

Hard not to step in. We can't interact with other contestsnts. Ocean water is colder than core body temperature....they couldn't hear me...

 

also from mar 3

Going from uber-cocky to the bottom. It's essential and needed for many reasons.

Edited March 12, 2016 by marys1000

[ozlsn]

I hope this made them rethink some of their challenges. I know Survival isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. And I know when you sign up for this show you accept that it's going to be grueling, and you can get hurt. But damn. If it were just one person, okay. But three people? That shows that you've gone too freaking far, IMO. If you're going to pick a location that is THAT hot and intense, have the challenges early in the morning, or later on towards evening.

 

Totally agree.  When Jeff said "you can feel the heat coming off the sand" both of us here said "they should do this at a different time, that's ridiculous".

 

The 105 number on the monitor reflected heart rate. A later shot showed it bouncing around the 111-114 range. His BP went from 139/83 to systolic readings of 169 to 183. Hypertensive crisis is when that number tops 180.

 

The worst part of the episode was Jiffy's almost gleeful "we're going to have an evacuation" proclamation. He is loathsome.

 

The first BP they read out I went "Oh, OK, raised but not critical."  Then it went up - having been through a similar thing with preeclampsia where my blood pressure went from ~170/100 to 220/115 in about 90 minutes (and then back down again with the aid of BP drug #3 being administered via IV - I was already on two drugs and reading 170/100 at the start of the appointment) I was sitting there going "wow, that's really not a good sign, I seriously hope they have the right drugs handy."

 

I didn't read Jeff as being gleeful, just very focused and trying to do multiple things at once - commentate, reassure Caleb, direct crew and inform the rest of the cast what was happening.

 

It seemed like they made the digging area too big and possibly too deep...I know they don't usually put the time up on the screen for how long they do that particular obstacle, but it seemed unusually long.

 

Wonder how many real days it was between the reward and immunity challenge.

 

My impression was that that was a larger area than they normally have for these things, particularly with only four members in each team.  Maybe the crew just buried the bags a bit deeper without realising, or as someone else said, the tribes kept moving dirt on top of where they hadn't searched yet and then had to move it again.

 

 I think production waited too long to do something and by the time they did, there was actual danger.

 

It likely was dehydration.  You'd be amazed what you can endure if you just have enough water.  When your fluids drop too low, your temperature shoots up and ...

 

Not an MD me but my understanding is that this is what people actually die from with 'heatstroke'.  Lots of things lead up to it, but organ failure is the end of the line.

 

Fucking rich of Jeff to admonish people to 'stay hydrated', as if they simply neglected this despite Production's every effort to make sure they did.  Not like production made them do something super-intensive in the sun and didn't allow them water breaks, no siree.

 

I really think this was a very bad miscalculation by the Production team.  Someone said earlier that they train in the Arizona sun - well, yeah, I play outdoor netball in temperatures of up to 40oC/104oF (which is when my competition pulls the plug on games), but the big differences are that I slept in my own bed the night before, ate well through the day, I have a water bottle handy that I can drink from at the end of each quarter (about 10 min quarters on hot days), I didn't have to fetch the water in my bottle from a well and then purify it, and I've usually been drinking consistently during the day before the game and am well hydrated.  Yes this is Survivor, and yes they push them - but this was an entirely predictable situation that they could have avoided by running the challenge outside of the hot part of the day, or by modifying it slightly.  Even my competition shortens the game time on hot days and encourages everyone to drink during the breaks because the last thing anyone wants is people collapsing from heatstroke.

 

I agree with whomever said that Probst should thank god on bended knee that nobody died here.

 

In total agreement.  What shocked me was that no one appeared to realise how serious it was until it was approaching critical - and that the game wasn't stopped or at least paused when the first person collapsed.  I didn't actually realise it wasn't an immunity challenge until they held the immunity challenge later in the episode - I'm still not convinced that Caleb realised it was a reward rather than immunity challenge at the time either... or anyone on the Brawn team.  That felt a lot more competitive than you would get for a fairly punishing reward challenge when you knew you'd need at least 3 of the 4 team members competing reasonably healthy for the next challenge (except Brawn who need everyone and all the help they can get apparently.)  It just felt off to me - whether it was a reward challenge and everyone just got into competition mode, or whether it was originally a combined challenge that then got modified I don't know.

[himela]

I have to admit I was crying like crazy with this whole thing. I got very emotional. I was thinking our body is si vulnerable and things can change in a moment. I am happy Caleb is ok.

Other than that, now I realize why in the previews for this season all they showed was the hard conditions and the accidents. I guess nothing strategically interesting happened. I predict Cydney will be the winner. This, like season 30, is one Jeff wants to forget. I do too and it is not even over!

I want more Second Chances! No more new people! I want to see the ones I already know!

[Guest]

I think Caleb plays physical competitions to win, period, whether it's for immunity, condiments or just the cameras.  Didn't he describe himself that way once or twice in this show?  

 

Jeff said in one of those links that this wasn't even one of their tougher challenges, it just took these people forever to find the bags and they just fought harder along the way.  Though that last bit sounds like marketing, to some extent.  I'm sure he said the same about Joe and Keith and probably Ian and Tom.  

[needschocolate]

Later she goes on to say she can stick up for herself and it wasn't that bad and that she wants people to know she is and was fine. Which, as much as I can't stand her, was nice to say.

 

 

 

 That is different from what was posted earlier in this thread about her trashing the two guys on Twitter or wherever. I can never understand the motivation of these people sometimes.

 

I suspect that she thinks she is sticking up for herself by arguing back and insulting those who insult her.  In this case, she sticks up for herself by trashing them on twitter.  They trash her, she trashes them.  We saw it on the show - she didn't go off by herself and complain that no one gave her any respect and they were mean to her, instead, she kept yelling at them for what they did.  Neither approach would keep her in the game. 

 

On rewatch you can see that Caleb's body temp went up to 113. Yikes! Could that be right? Or was that his heart rate?

 

I saw a number go from 104 to 105 and my initial reaction was that it was his temperature.  Then I realized that they wouldn't put a temperature in whole number, they would at least show the nearest tenth.  We don't say that a normal temperature  is 99, we say 98.6,  If the 104 that I say was a temperature and it was climbing,  then I would have seen it go to 104.1 to 104.2 to 104.3 to 104.4 and so on.    

[ihartcoffee]

I'm surprised to find so much discussion on Peter not going into Dr. mode. My first guess would be he's not supposed to.

Brawn threw this challenge on purpose. I wish Jeff would have called them out and let Alecia stay since Caleb went home.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'd just like to say that I've been in the same country in (possibly) the same heat.  It's pretty much known that visiting between the months of April to October is just  silly (this coming from the natives of those countries, not meant to offend). Those are the low seasons, dead seasons for tourists.  I personally wouldn't do it.  In February it was 35 degrees Celsius/95 degrees F every day and I had tons of bottles of water and and an air-conditioned car nearby.  The heat is NUTS!  As soon as I would step out of the car , my energy would be zapped completely.  I'd constantly have to sit down to feel better.   The tour guides keep coolers full of water and face towels in their car so you can try and cool down!   And all we're doing is wandering around temples at a slow pace.   Yes, I'm a North American who is used to harsh winters but I wanted to give my two cents!  When did this season film in Cambodia?  (By the way, I prefer December -- as long as I'm near a beach the weather is just wonderful!)  

 

Thanks himela.  I personally don't think Survivor should be about surviving heatstroke.  Not entertaining in my books!  (Edited to clarify Celsius).

Edited March 12, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[himela]

I think I heard Stephen say it was April for the season we are watching now.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

In February it was 35 degrees every day and I had tons of bottles of water and and an air-conditioned car nearby.  The heat is NUTS!  

I take it this was 35 degrees Celsius?  Because otherwise......well I don't think I'd be rushing into that air-conditioned car.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yes.

[mythoughtis]

In regards to Peter - yes, he's a doctor in USA - not the country they are filming in.  He's a contestant.  There are doctors there who have been cleared to practice on the set, island, whatever you want to call it.  Further more, Dr. Joe? wasn't doing the actual IV... that's the medic or nurses job.   If they had thought they needed to drag Peter from under the umbrella that they probably had ordered him to sit under, they would have.   I am sure that there was activity occurring that we did not see, and that missed footage probably explains why people were in the spots they were in and doing wht they were doing while Caleb was being attended to.

 

 

I think these medics and doctors need to proactively stop challenges for water breaks and medical checks, not just react to someone collapsing. The minute Debbie went down, the challenge should have stopped, to be restarted after she was checked.  There should have been enforced water and shade breaks at that time. 

[wait.what]

113 was his heart rate, not temperature. Not sure if they were able to actually check his temperature at the time. It was obvious that he was hot, but how were they gonna check his temp?

Oral? No, because of the O2 mask

Axillary? Not accurate.

Skin? Never seen a skin temp attached to a monitor. And I didn't see one on his forehead which is where they are usually placed.

Rectal? Ummmm, didn't see that either.

Trust me, medics would do a better job of emergency treatment of heat stroke than an ED doctor. Really, trust me.

There are protocols of treatment for all emergency situations. Nurses and medics are much better of initiating/implementing these protocols.

[phlebas]

Doctor Joe was on the scene with a large team of medical people all over the place. These were people who knew each other and had worked together and knew where their orders were coming from. They seemed to be icing down Cydney and Debbie just fine, and Doctor Joe himself was tending to Caleb with a crowd around him.

 

Inserting Doctor Obama into this when he has no experience with this team and no task already awaiting him MIGHT cause something other than confusion, but I'm not sure what.  If the medical team needed his help, they knew where to find him, but they already had Nick holding up Caleb's feet.

 

As for not looking concerned enough about Debbie?  I think that's just begging for something to be angry with him about. He knew the situation was under control and staring at Debbie wasn't going to accomplish anything.  For all we know, he was just scanning around at the other players in case anyone else looked like they might drop.

 

I think it's fine if you don't like Peter. But this is a pretty weak reason for it.

[violet and green]

As for not looking concerned enough about Debbie?  I think that's just begging for something to be angry with him about. He knew the situation was under control and staring at Debbie wasn't going to accomplish anything.  For all we know, he was just scanning around at the other players in case anyone else looked like they might drop.

 

I think it's fine if you don't like Peter. But this is a pretty weak reason for it.

 

I'm not angry! I just thing he has shown very good indications in the last four eps of being somewhat lacking in the heart department, as many people these days are. This was just one more example - and I made a suggestion that although he may not have been allowed to act as a doctor in that situation, he could still have acted as a human being (or even just faked it). I am sure the poor fellow is not enjoying being criticised by people on social media and what not who were not there, and I agree I was not there! However from my observations he could have, just humanly, shown a little more concern, for anyone. Debbi right next to him was an obvious contender.

[Guest]

In regards to Peter - yes, he's a doctor in USA - not the country they are filming in.  He's a contestant.  There are doctors there who have been cleared to practice on the set, island, whatever you want to call it.  Further more, Dr. Joe? wasn't doing the actual IV... that's the medic or nurses job.   If they had thought they needed to drag Peter from under the umbrella that they probably had ordered him to sit under, they would have.   I am sure that there was activity occurring that we did not see, and that missed footage probably explains why people were in the spots they were in and doing wht they were doing while Caleb was being attended to.

 

 

I think these medics and doctors need to proactively stop challenges for water breaks and medical checks, not just react to someone collapsing. The minute Debbie went down, the challenge should have stopped, to be restarted after she was checked.  There should have been enforced water and shade breaks at that time. 

There's a lot that goes on out there that we aren't shown.  We've never seen the coolers full of iced water bottles for the crew.  Or the crew, really.  If they did have water/shade breaks, and I think they do when it's warranted, do you think they'd be shown in the final edit?  

[stillhere1900]

 

I can't hate on Peter for not acting more doctorly in the moment (although I have other reasons!). We didn't see everything that happened or if he was told to stand back, we don't know how he was feeling, we have no idea if he's a competent doctor, and I think it is possible that his employer/ insurer expressly forbade him from practicing medicine on the island. Committing malpractice on camera is a big no-no.

 

Wouldn't the "Good Samaritan " law apply ?  Is that just in the US ?