S32.E04: Signed, Sealed, And Delivered

[Tasya]

 

I agree that it could be that her back is against the wall and she is just adapting to the situation.  But I do take issue with the fact that she went running to Jason with the immunity clue and basically gave over to him that incredible bit of power that Alecia foolishly handed to her.  That says to me that she is deferring to Jason when she doesn't have to.  Which is not about laying low and surviving, it's about choosing to actively help another player -- who happens to be an asshole.

But she had to tell Jason; she was already aware that he had spotted her with Alecia on the hill digging for a clue. At this point she's stuck in an alliance with the two guys. If she doesn't go to Jason with the clue, he's going to start plotting against her because he now thinks she's flipped and is working with Alecia. The dumb one in this situation is Alecia, She had absolutely no reason to call Cydney over and show her the clue. Just stealthily place it somewhere and read it later.  

[Special K]

But she had to tell Jason; she was already aware that he had spotted her with Alecia on the hill digging for a clue. At this point she's stuck in an alliance with the two guys. If she doesn't go to Jason with the clue, he's going to start plotting against her because he now thinks she's flipped and is working with Alecia. The dumb one in this situation is Alecia, She had absolutely no reason to call Cydney over and show her the clue. Just stealthily place it somewhere and read it later.  

 

You may be right.  Honestly in that incident, they all looked dumb.  It has a kind of keystone cops feel to it.  You know, without the humor.

[azshadowwalker]

No, Cydney didn’t have to go to Kyle. He saw them on the hill. So, what? Say you didn't find anything. If he's stupid enough to go after you, you have Alecia and at least a chance to work on Scot, telling him you will force the tie. Instead, she gives the clue to them, they get it, and now she's more dependent. And when they were talking about it protecting "us" she wasn't part of the picture. It didn't do one thing to improve her situation.

As for Kyle's wife whining on SM about the "family" being "bullied", I have to laugh. She inserted herself into the fray on the very first week, trying to protect that asshole from what they knew was coming. He knew how he would look, because he knew how he acted. He told her, and she tried to preemptively make excuses. If you don’t want people to respond, don't defend an asshole long before the viewing public even knows he is an asshole.

[TresGatos]

Caleb was creepy and inappropriate with Amber during his BB Season but even when he was coming across as scarily unhinged there was a likability underneath it all even if my spouse and I joked during the 1st episode of this season's Survivor that Caleb left Amber chained in the basement of his log cabin and we hoped he left her enough slack to reach the bucket. This made Tai's inappropriateness seem a little bit like what comes around goes around. I would still like to see Tai and Caleb on TAR, especially if they raced through Vietnam.
 

 

Otherwise, I don't understand why Caleb is referring to this challenge as an immunity challenge

 

 

Residual brain damage from the heatstroke?

[sadiegirl1999]

But the behavior at the challenge kicking sand and several other things made her look not so great

 

 

I took the "kicking sand" as, they were all so exhausted that kicking sand was a way to find the bags without expending as much energy?

Edited March 11, 2016 by sadiegirl1999

[kakiphony]

I took the "kicking sand" as, they were all so exhausted that kicking sand was a way to find the bags with expending as much energy?

 

Yes, that's exactly what she was doing, and it clearly irritated her fellow players who were all digging. And then she proceeded to attempt to get them all to follow suit saying it was easier, which got her some pained looks. It was pretty clear that the bags were buried more deeply than her method was uncovering, and she was pretty clueless that it appeared to her teammates that she was being unhelpful at best and annoying at worst.

 

Again, her fellow players behaved and are continuing to behave like brats. I'm just pointing out that she contributed to the dynamic, not that she deserved that level of bad treatment.

[Alapaki]

But for the love of the game, make Debbie Know-it-All shut the heck up!!!!!  Please vote her out!  I realize she know everything and her daughters adore her, but I am guessing her fellow employees are SO happy that she went away for a month or more.  She never ever seems to shut up!  Go drink some more tainted water.

 

 

Debbie calling herself a "mastermind" (or whatever she said about the last TC) is the epitome of the Rooster taking credit for the Sunrise.  But the funny thing is that most players who are swing-votes realize they're swing votes.  They just mistakenly fail to realize that also means that they're on the bottom of two different alliances.  Debbie apparently doesn't even realize she was a swing vote.  She thinks she's running the show.  

 

If there's a Survivor God, after he gives Debbie the shits from the tainted water, she'll end up confined in solitary with Jason and Kyle.

 

I'm sure all of the vilification of those two has already been shared upthread, so I won't reinvent the hate-wheel.

 

But I do want to comment on Peachy's subtle misogyny last night.  I'll be happy to stand corrected, but I can't recall a time when a strong male player was facing apparently certain elimination at TC and Jeff said (unprompted by any of the players) "screw it, why don't we just go to TC now and get it over with?".

 

And, to dust off my tinfoil hat . . . a medical evacuation would've been the perfect opportunity to forego a TC, allowing a clearly dead-(wo)man-walking player to get a second chance with the impending apparent tribal swap.  It would be irresponsible not to speculate whether that luxury would've been afforded to one of TPTB"s favorites had they found themselves in Alecia's position.  

[Rick Kitchen]

 

But I do want to comment on Peachy's subtle misogyny last night.  I'll be happy to stand corrected, but I can't recall a time when a strong male player was facing apparently certain elimination at TC and Jeff said (unprompted by any of the players) "screw it, why don't we just go to TC now and get it over with?".

 

That's what they did with Brandon Hantz.

[azshadowwalker]

Yes, that's exactly what she was doing, and it clearly irritated her fellow players who were all digging. And then she proceeded to attempt to get them all to follow suit saying it was easier, which got her some pained looks. It was pretty clear that the bags were buried more deeply than her method was uncovering, and she was pretty clueless that it appeared to her teammates that she was being unhelpful at best and annoying at worst.

 

Again, her fellow players behaved and are continuing to behave like brats. I'm just pointing out that she contributed to the dynamic, not that she deserved that level of bad treatment.

By the time she employed that tactic, Scot was just sitting doing nothing. I don't think that is a terribly effective strategy frankly, so I don't know what issue he would have with what is likely a more effective method than sitting on his ass.

[peachmangosteen]

There is definitely a very distasteful dynamic at play here and it's easy to call it out as misogynistic and/or bullying, but I'm on the fence as to whether those are accurate descriptors. Part of my hesitation is my awareness that editing always IS a factor in Survivor. No, they can't make people say things or do things that they didn't say or do, but they can selectively choose what to show and how they show it. So I absolutely believe that Kyle and Scott behaved badly and made no secret at all about their dislike of Alecia and irritation with her. This is not nice and is, generally, not good game play. What I'm less clear on is the cause of their dislike and irritation, and whether their continued stubbornness about the Alecia situation is because they just refuse to back down and admit to being wrong, or because there were reasons for then to have developed such a strong antipathy toward her such that they just can't find it in them to like her even outside the game context. 

 

This feels a lot like what was used to justify Dan and Will's behavior in WA. IMO what Alecia did or didn't do doesn't matter. Scot and Jason are assholes. Plain and simple. You don't get to tear a person down for days because you think they're annoying. And, as my mom always says, you're responsible for your own behavior. It's not like we allow murders to say, "Well, that guy was really annoying me so I killed him," and let that excuse their actions.

 

It is entirely possible for someone else to be insufferable and for you ALSO to be a jerk. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

Yep.

 

However, they don't necessarily deserve the vitriol they are receiving, particularly the families (which I am thinking might be what she meant by "bullying") (also again, I'm not on SM so I'm just assuming there are mean tweets, because there usually are).  I think it is super unfair to call Jason fat or say that you feel bad for Scot's daughters, just because they are mean to someone else on TV.  I don't understand how someone can say that Jason and Scot bullied Alecia, then go on to say mean, personal things about Jason and Scot that are unfounded and not call that bullying. 

 

Saying you feel sorry for Scot's daughters isn't bullying. It's an observation based on the behavior Scot's been shown exhibiting. Bullying is more like belittling someone and trying to tear them down because you think they're weak, i.e. exactly what Scot and Jason have been shown doing to Alecia. And to top it all off, they're still doing it. Someone else mentioned how that's what really makes them assholes. It's over. Move on. 

 

By the time she employed that tactic, Scot was just sitting doing nothing. I don't think that is a terribly effective strategy frankly, so I don't know what issue he would have with what is likely a more effective method than sitting on his ass.

 

THIS! It reminded me of how they sat on their asses while Alecia got a fire started. They contributed absolutely nothing to tribe life or any challenges, which makes their disrespect toward Alecia even more galling.

Edited March 10, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[violet and green]

I really enjoyed Debbie again. I loved that bit when she got choked up talking about her daughters. So glad she wasn't the one medivac'd out as she's my favorite, along with Tai. I was worried it was going to be one of those two. Very sad it was Caleb.

 

Other than that, everything has been said, quite hotly. That was an ugly episode to watch, with a few sweet moments.

 

I got worried when they played that foreboding musical tone to underline Debbie's last comment to the ER Doc. So am very glad Brains weren't in tribal last night, and stupid Brawn tribe were - they are really so stupid for voting out Darnell instead of Alicia first off, and keeping her around to be limp in challenges and then cop their abuse. Ugly, ugly, ugly, and stupid. I will be very glad when those men go, aside from their ugly aggro comments and behavior, as I find their tatts etc really hard to watch. There's such a thing as enough tatts.

[mythoughtis]

Here's hoping the Jason/Scot team gets split up, and that they each end up on the bottom of a team, and Cyndey refuses to work with them.

 

Alecia was annoying, and not overly bright, and talkative.  That doesn't give Jason and Scot the right to treat her like they did. They say you know someone's real values by the way they treat the waitress or the janitor. etc.   Jason and Scot showed their true values, and if I were their wives/daughters, I would be very ashamed.  However, social media fans should save their hate for the two guys in question. 

 

This happened the last time it was beauty vs brawn vs brains, right?

[Rick Kitchen]

I am pretty sure that if Jason and Scot get split up, Scot will nark on Jason having the idol in a heartbeat.

[piewarmer]

 

On a shallow not, I really hate those American flag bikinis.   I know they're a thing in bodybuilding.

 

I'm going to wade right into the shallow end with you to say that I hate Debbie's bathing suit more. It seems impractical and doesn't fit well.

[piequinn35]

hi piewarmer :) 

 

Is Debbie also a spy? she likes gathering intelligence

Edited March 11, 2016 by piequinn35

[Charlesman]

I worry that one of these days they are going to go too far.  We know people have fudged their medical and mental health history before, whose to say someone wouldn't do that and wind up having a heart attack in a challenge like this?

 

 

 

 I seem to remember (but I could be wrong) that a contestant died during the first challenge of the first season of French survivor.

 

And I think Burnett once instructed his cameramen that, if a contestant were to stumble and fall into a fire, to keep filming rather than help.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Charlesman

[azshadowwalker]

 There's such a thing as enough tatts.

I don't think they have too many tattoos. I just think both of them have shitty tattoos. I agree that they are awful to look at, though, even for someone who likes tattoos.

Edited March 11, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[thejuicer]

Last night's episode turned me off from watching any more of this season. And I'm not referring to the heat stroke stuff.

 

As a young professional woman myself I have dealt with my fair share of Scot's and Jason's and their behavior towards Alecia made my blood boil. They deserve every bit of flack coming their way.  And shame on Cydney for not speaking up.

[piequinn35]

 I seem to remember (but I could be wrong) that a contestant died during the first challenge of the first season of French survivor.

 

And I think Burnett once instructed his cameramen that, if a contestant were to stumble and fall into a fire, to keep filming rather than help.

Yes, a contestant had heart attack on French Survivor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-Lanta= season unlucky 13 and season was cancelled

[RedheadZombie]

I don't get why Brawn decided Alecia should work on the puzzle. A few episodes ago she told them straight up that she wasn't good at puzzles, and someone barked to stop being so negative. This time she asked one of the guys if they wanted to switch out and Cydney barks to just focus. Morons.

This tweet explains a lot.

 

https://twitter.com/47PB/status/707823360038866944

 

Peter Baggenstos

‏@47PB

Hard not to step in. We can't interact with other contestsnts. Ocean water is colder than core body temperature....they couldn't hear me...

I was yelling at the TV for them to go sit in the water. Not anyone in danger of losing consciousness, of course, but even Cydney could have been supported by Neanderthal #1 while she cooled off.

[Wandering Snark]

I don't get why Brawn decided Alecia should work on the puzzle. A few episodes ago she told them straight up that she wasn't good at puzzles, and someone barked to stop being so negative. This time she asked one of the guys if they wanted to switch out and Cydney barks to just focus. Morons.

I thoroughly suspected at this point they wouldn't swap out doing the puzzle because they just wanted to lose, vote Alecia off and be done with it and sticking the one person worst suited to the job helped that matter.

[slowpoked]

I don't get why Brawn decided Alecia should work on the puzzle. A few episodes ago she told them straight up that she wasn't good at puzzles, and someone barked to stop being so negative. This time she asked one of the guys if they wanted to switch out and Cydney barks to just focus. Morons.

 

Because they intentionally threw the challenge so they could finally vote her out, so no one was interested in helping at that point. Apparently, they want to make sure she's out before any tribe changes happened so that no one would know about Fatty's idol. 

[hatchetgirl]

 

In the argument between Alecia and the guys, there was no one for me to root for.  She really doesn't do herself any favors when she talks. (Her teeth are distractingly white, though.)  It's hard to believe she spent all those hours making a fire several days earlier within the show's timeline.  But the guys were complete jerks to her.

 

I'm not a fan of her, but dang it, she was just saying "hey - I was not in the wrong to try to help the team".  I recently had to tell a man that he needed to make eye contact with me next time we meet.  He literally talked to one other person in our conversation and didn't make eye contact with me once, and this was a meeting that I'm the president for.  It's very annoying.  He's over 50, and a big brawny tough guy and it's like "I know i'm 4'9", but I'm not to be disregarded.  I have things to say and a right to say them."  So I thought she was trying to make the same point.  It's never nice to be disregarded.  

 

But - having said that - I would have voted her out as well but after the NBA guy.

[Gweilo]

What is "Ranger School?" Is it school you go to to learn how to be a forest ranger? Honestly this woman's resume is so long she must change jobs every other week.

Well her job changes every single confessional :p

  

 

My son and I were aghast at the medical emergencies. Just wow.  Jeff's hosting duties was a little jarring, (I think voice overs would have been a better choice, too), but I have no way of knowing the timelines, or how long all of this took. 

I believe it was 22 minutes between Caleb collapsing and him being put in the chopper.

[NutMeg]

Gosh, what a terrible episode... I now understand better how Jeff reacted so switfly to Joe (and then Keith) losing consciousness at the end of a challenge. Same locale, it must have brought him flashbacks of his scariest challenge yet.

Debbie calling herself a "mastermind" (or whatever she said about the last TC) is the epitome of the Rooster taking credit for the Sunrise.  But the funny thing is that most players who are swing-votes realize they're swing votes.  They just mistakenly fail to realize that also means that they're on the bottom of two different alliances.  Debbie apparently doesn't even realize she was a swing vote.  She thinks she's running the show.

I don't think Debbie is a swing vote in the meaning you imply. Because a far as I can tell she's still good with Joe, Aubry and Neal (she didn't betray them and helped them improve their situation), as well as maybe the only one Peter talks to (also, remember that he sees her as a great goat, so she's probably safe with him for a while). And it was a good move of her to check on Peter after tribal. Nobody seems to see her as a strategic mastermind, some (well, Peter, maybe others, but we don't know) see her as a lunatic, but she doesn't appear dangerous to anyone at this stage. Who knows what will happen when tribes are shuffled, but for now, in her current tribe, I'd say she was in a good position.

 

I think the poster that raised the possibility that the RC was initially a RC/IC may have it right. As a full RC challenge, the rewards offered were not "willing to kill yourself for". I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the first RC only challenge in a season offers slightly more attractive payouts, these were more consistent with the kind of bonus-for-winning-immunity that we have seen so far this season. 

[Lamb18]

Scott to Alecia : I found two balls, what have you got?  Wow. So much to encourage your team.

 

Alecia says: None, because I'm a girl.

[azshadowwalker]

I don't see any reason they would hold another IC if that was meant to be both a RC and an IC. Why would they make the winning team, who already lost a member to an evacuation, risk losing a second member? If it was a combined challenge, that would mean the producers took away their immunity and made them fight for it again. That just seems unlikely.

[Big Mother]

Caleb mustve been confused bc in all of his interviews today he implied it was an immunity challenge. he was probably confused...

[Latverian Diplomat]

Funny what you can remember. When I was a kid, I won a VHS tape of Double Dare highlights. One of the things I recall was from the first episode, where a kid was digging through balls for a flag, and he timed out. Turns out the staff forgot to bury the flag. That's what I thought of seeing the tribes almost die for crappy comfort items. I'm not expecting Probst to spilt the second place prize between Beauty and Brawn, but the flags should have been easier to find.

 

Alecia, if you're reading this . . . maybe you should come to the Reunion dressed as a Celtics Dancer. They were probably as vital to the team in 2008 as Scot was, if not more so. Sure, Scot and Jason are alpha males that Probst would slurp, but I think the host likes leading a mob more. I think they're still finding chunks of Dan in the wheels of the Survivor bus.

 

I wonder if it was designed as a sort of intelligence test to see who would figure out it wasn't worth it, or if the tribes were just much worse at digging than expected.

They try these things out don't they, and Brain tribe found theirs quickly. I wonder if the other two teams just had a very poor strategy. In particular, Brawn seemed to start in the middle and dig really deep. That could mean they were moving a lot of sand they didn't need to, and multiple times (the center sand is now covering the outer ring sand, so you've got to move it all again.).

 

I was also wondering why they didn't bring the contestants to the ocean. Maybe the water near the beach is too warm (albeit still cold-ish) and wouldn't cool down someone fast enough? The ice and icy water they used seemed to work really fast on Debbie and Cydney. 

 

 

Mrs Boiler kept saying get them all in the water!!!  It seemed like it was close enough that the other contestants could have all walked in and cooled off while they were dealing with Debbie, Caleb and Cyndney.

I'm not a doctor but two things I think are relevant on why the immersion in the ocean thing wouldn't work that well.

 

1) Heat transfer rate depends on difference in temperatures. So it's much faster to cool down with water that's really cold, as opposed to slightly below body temp.

 

2) Evaporation has significant cooling power. So drenching somebody but leaving them in air can be very useful. 

 

In extreme cases, immersion in ice water is the best treatment, but I think that's factor #1 outwaying #2. I don't think immersion is always the best thing.

 

Again, not a doctor, just guessing.

 

I think Cydney is very lucky about the shuffle. She was toast, since I think Brawn were likely losers (and I kind of wanted to see them lose without having Alecia to blame) and she is clearly the third wheel. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Latverian Diplomat

[KimberStormer]

Big Mother, on 10 Mar 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

3) I'm hoping against hope that this was initially a combined RC/IC, and the tribal council was canceled, with a new IC done a few days later when the tribed regained their strength. (Brawn lost both challenges anyway so it didn't change things.) If this is true - and it's improbably, bc a lot of dubbing would have to be done in post-production - it would make me feel a lot better about Caleb almost dying. At least if he thought it was an Immunity Challenge, that would explain why everyoen was pushing themselves so hard instead of just giving up in the middle.

 

I was actually wondering this myself during the opening of the challenge (since I knew from previews this was the Challenge of Doom) and noticed that the way it was cut we never saw Jeff on camera saying it was a reward-only challenge (meaning it could have been overdubbed), BUT at the time I assumed the challenge would be canceled in the middle due to the medical problems, not that they'd arise after each team finished.  It does seem unlikely that they'd subject teams who already won immunity to doing another challenge.  (Though I do think I remember an individual immunity win which meant absolutely nothing--I think it was Keith who won?--because there was no tribal that time...I have no recollection of the circumstances, though.)

 

Tasya, on 10 Mar 2016 - 1:14 PM, said:

But she had to tell Jason; she was already aware that he had spotted her with Alecia on the hill digging for a clue. At this point she's stuck in an alliance with the two guys. If she doesn't go to Jason with the clue, he's going to start plotting against her because he now thinks she's flipped and is working with Alecia. The dumb one in this situation is Alecia, She had absolutely no reason to call Cydney over and show her the clue. Just stealthily place it somewhere and read it later.  

 

Alecia was certainly dumb, but there is no reason for Cydney to tell Cupcake the real clue, exactly as there was no reason for Tyler to spill it to Mike.  I know it is shocking to suggest someone go on Survivor and tell lies, but if you look at the fine print, it's not against the rules.  She could have made up something.  Even something better than Judd's "That thing is, by far, on the ground."

 

Alapaki, on 10 Mar 2016 - 2:22 PM, said:

Debbie calling herself a "mastermind" (or whatever she said about the last TC) is the epitome of the Rooster taking credit for the Sunrise.  But the funny thing is that most players who are swing-votes realize they're swing votes.  They just mistakenly fail to realize that also means that they're on the bottom of two different alliances.  Debbie apparently doesn't even realize she was a swing vote.  She thinks she's running the show.  

 

And, to dust off my tinfoil hat . . . a medical evacuation would've been the perfect opportunity to forego a TC, allowing a clearly dead-(wo)man-walking player to get a second chance with the impending apparent tribal swap.  It would be irresponsible not to speculate whether that luxury would've been afforded to one of TPTB"s favorites had they found themselves in Alecia's position.  

 

Debbie is, in fact, running the show.  She's not a swing vote, has never been a swing vote, I don't get your position on that.  Peter wanted to vote out Neal, Debbie wanted to vote out Liz, Debbie won.  She was the leader of the anti-Liz coalition and never between any two alliances at all.  She's not at the bottom of anything now, certainly.  "Swing vote who doesn't know her place" is a popular punching bag for Survivor fans that I don't agree with in general, but even if I did it doesn't describe Debbie in any sense that I can see.

 

I really am baffled they had an IC and tribal at all.  Surely it would be more interesting from both a game and drama perspective to have Alecia (or Peter for that matter, who would have gone, I assume, if the Brains lost) around for the swap.  In so many ways.  Plus it would have made for an even tribal swap.  I can only figure it was some kind of logistical decision, but IMO a truly bizarre one.  I don't know if I quite agree that Alecia is the victim of Probst hate, though; I believed him when he said he was rooting for her.  His offer to take her out then and there was very strange, but I'm not sure it was malicious...I don't really know what it was.

[SlackerInc]

Just caught the episode.  Ugh.

 

We don't need a Korey Stringer in "Survivor".  The PTB need to do a lot more than just talking about the players "giving it their all" and it being a tough game, yadda yadda. They need to institute reforms like the NFL has, to make sure this kind of thing won't happen in the future.

 

I didn't think Scot was that bad before, but what a dick.

[marys1000]

I don't like Jason and NBA guy (Scott?) and if you don't like someone you can keep your mouth shut. 

That sai most of the trash talking about Alecia seemed to be between each other, secret scenes and to cameras. At the end exactly

what was Scott supposed to do with her acting like a pitball about his cheerleading comment?  How long did that go

on that we didn't see? 

I think bullying is an exaggeration.  They were rude and not very nice.  They didn't like her, she was useless and

irritating. 

I spent a about a half hour googling her and came up with - spoiled rich girl, wannabe model, thinks that saying

she is a hard working non quitter makes it so and believes it.  NOT.  Do ya'll know she got special survivialist training from...IDK

some guy whose name I didn't recognize and he taught her to make fire?  Personally I think her Dad got her on the show.

She should have been first out and I'm really glad she's gone.  Having endured some rudeness does not suddenly

mean that you are an amazing person and certainly doesn't change the reality of her being an awful Survivor player.   

Edited March 11, 2016 by marys1000

[Eolivet]

Caleb mustve been confused bc in all of his interviews today he implied it was an immunity challenge. he was probably confused...

 

I don't think he's confused. When I read that, I started thinking about what he said. I would bet you (well, I'd say there's reasonable doubt at least) that it was an immunity/reward challenge, as is usually the case early in the season. Come to think of it, have there been separate immunity and reward challenges yet? I think Caleb (god bless him and his shifts at Lowe's) is telling the truth when he says he was doing it for immunity.

 

After the evacuation and when contestants were given time to recover, the producers made the decision that they were going to have a tribal council. But they knew they'd look horrendous if they forced Cydney (who they'd just shown in convulsions) to drag herself up from the ground and get her butt to tribal immediately afterwards. So, they staged a separate "immunity challenge" that they'd show to the television audience.

 

It's weird, because I remember being surprised that the shell-shocked Beauty tribe, who looked like they were going through PTSD when Caleb left, was able to pull themselves together for a second place finish. And Brains -- which had just lost the last Immunity challenge and was coming apart at the seams, post-tribal -- finished first again? The exact order of their reward finishes? I mean, it's possible, but I think it's also reasonable to think there might've been the heavy hand of production at play here.

 

I think the show learned their lesson with Brandon Hantz, and realized you have to bury your drama. Hence, having it at the beginning, having another challenge afterwards (See? They're all fine! They totally recovered from almost dying!) and end on a Caleb confessional and somewhat upbeat note. They'd rather have a mix of viewers discussing what jerks and bullies the Brawn men are (i.e. typical Survivor discussion) than 99% WTF Survivor, you almost let someone die!!!! Two challenges and more post-evacuation show deflects from their totally egregious medical mistakes, IMO.

 

::tin-foil hat off::

Edited March 11, 2016 by Eolivet

[Big Mother]

I don't think he's confused. When I read that, I started thinking about what he said. I would bet you (well, I'd say there's reasonable doubt at least) that it was an immunity/reward challenge, as is usually the case early in the season. Come to think of it, have there been separate immunity and reward challenges yet? I think Caleb (god bless him and his shifts at Lowe's) is telling the truth when he says he was doing it for immunity.

 

Unfortunately it has been confirmed that it was just a reward challenge, based on the date / time stamps: it was a day after the Brains Tribal council. but it's okay. Caleb still rocks in my books :)

 

The way he handled his exit press yesterday has just raised him in my eyes. I was his smallest fan on BB. I'm impressed by how he's changed.

[NutMeg]

I don't think he's confused. When I read that, I started thinking about what he said. I would bet you (well, I'd say there's reasonable doubt at least) that it was an immunity/reward challenge, as is usually the case early in the season. Come to think of it, have there been separate immunity and reward challenges yet? I think Caleb (god bless him and his shifts at Lowe's) is telling the truth when he says he was doing it for immunity.

 

After the evacuation and when contestants were given time to recover, the producers made the decision that they were going to have a tribal council. But they knew they'd look horrendous if they forced Cydney (who they'd just shown in convulsions) to drag herself up from the ground and get her butt to tribal immediately afterwards. So, they staged a separate "immunity challenge" that they'd show to the television audience.

 

It's weird, because I remember being surprised that the shell-shocked Beauty tribe, who looked like they were going through PTSD when Caleb left, was able to pull themselves together for a second place finish. And Brains -- which had just lost the last Immunity challenge and was coming apart at the seams, post-tribal -- finished first again? The exact order of their reward finishes? I mean, it's possible, but I think it's also reasonable to think there might've been the heavy hand of production at play here.

 

I think the show learned their lesson with Brandon Hantz, and realized you have to bury your drama. Hence, having it at the beginning, having another challenge afterwards (See? They're all fine! They totally recovered from almost dying!) and end on a Caleb confessional and somewhat upbeat note. They'd rather have a mix of viewers discussing what jerks and bullies the Brawn men are (i.e. typical Survivor discussion) than 99% WTF Survivor, you almost let someone die!!!! Two challenges and more post-evacuation show deflects from their totally egregious medical mistakes, IMO.

 

::tin-foil hat off::

This makes sense to me. We don't know how many days there were between the two challenges, but it was enough for everyone to recover. So my new theory is that the second challenge was initially supposed to be broadcast in the next episode, but was brought forward to this week so as to indeed reassure us that everyone was fine and had recovered.

[Boilergal]

 

 

I'm not a doctor but two things I think are relevant on why the immersion in the ocean thing wouldn't work that well.

I don't think it would have worked for the 3 that were down and receiving medical attention  - but the survivors that were mobile - give them a bottle of water, an umbrella and have them go sit in the water and cool down - the water had to be cooler than sitting in the very hot sand.

 

I think it would have helped a little physically, but also emotionally -  get them all out of the emotionally charged  area of the three that were down, especially Caleb.

 

ETA:  Not a doctor - But watched Grays, ER and other medical shows...that should count for something ;)

Edited March 11, 2016 by Boilergal

[CoyoteBlue]

I'm also giving a pass to Peter/ER doc. Who knows what production told him. Who knows if he asked if he could help and they told him no. Who knows if he too felt dehydrated and on the verge of needing treatment. They were all exhausted (I'm frankly surprised Scot didn't need medical attention as he looked in real rough shape throughout the challenge). 

 

Yeah, if I had the option between trained (probably local) medics and an heat-exhausted, dehydrated ER doc, I'll take the medic. There's no way to know that Peter was thinking clearly and quickly enough to make any life-or-death medical decision at that time.

 

It was pretty clear that the bags were buried more deeply than her method was uncovering,

I don't know about that. Usually, people keep digging way past where we ever expect the bags to be buried. Once one bag is uncovered, I'd never go below that level, assuming they're probably all at about that depth. They don't want them digging to China - it's about covering the most square footage searching, not digging the deepest.

[Archery]

denise jason ‏@denise_jason138  5m5 minutes ago

@JeffProbst hey so could you help stop the bullying against my family and I? @survivorcbs

 

. . . my family and me.  (Sorry, cannot help myself.)

 

I think Probst is in both host mode and producer mode, not in the sense of producer of the whole show, but the guy in charge on the ground.  He makes the decision to stop a challenge, discipline the players, figure out what the rules are, and consult with medical about whether someone needs to be pulled.  So, I think his ongoing narration during emergencies is both for us, the viewers, and to document and process what's happening so that he, as show-runner, can make decisions in real time.  He doesn't seem to be interfering with the medical treatment in any way, and I really the way he interacts with the downed player (stroking foreheads, holding hands, reassuring them), including addressing their concerns about being pulled from the game (which is often what they're most worried about) and explaining why.  I think he is at his best when he is reacting to an ongoing situation rather than prodding people for the camera (although he really does have the knack of pushing people's buttons).

[ljenkins782]

I went back and re-watched this scene again to satisfy myself I was right.  For God's sake, there was an ER doctor right there among them and he did nothing, not a damn thing.  He was never even seen in any of the shots of the others worried faces and anxious words.  Where the hell did he go?  I realize he is not there as a 'doctor' but as a contestant but to my mind any doctor anywhere would have jumped in to help in any way he could.  Hell, a nurses aide would have sprung into action in a crisis like they were having.  I did not like Peter before this, I have a serious hate on for him now.  Totally irresponsible in my opinion.

 

 

There is something in their contracts that they can't help a fellow castaway if they are a health care professional is what I heard

That seems like the kind of clause that might apply to standard "back at camp" situations, but in an emergency? That's a completely ridiculous clause, if it's true. 

 

I missed the beginning of the show on Wed, so I just saw this part now as I was reading the comments so I too looked for Dr Peter and honestly, where was he? I'm not even saying "why wasn't he helping" but where was he in the group? I saw every single other person in one group shot or another but couldn't see him anywhere. Weird.

 

ETA: just saw ren's picture above with the sighting of Dr. Peter. LOL at the staging of that photo! 2 other teammates hovering over Debbie while he's reclining in the sand like he's at the beach, holding an umbrella over his OWN head and looking away. Classic.

 

My opinion of Debbie, who I think is crazy with her microscopic super eye vision and a billion and one jobs, flipped several times this episode. It started with my usual dislike with her mastermind exclamations at the top of the episode. However, she actually became a little more tolerable when she was being forthright during her talking head after her heat incident. Then she turned the crazy back on again with her brainy cheers. Actually, she better count her blessings that the NBA player isn't on her tribe.

 

At this point, my overall opinion of Debbie is fairly static in the sense that she is maddeningly annoying at times, way overconfident and over the top, and yet has her moments where she seems quite intelligent and tolerable. 

 

I appreciate this type of "character" so much more than the Agent Sheppards  or Jonny Fairplays of the world because I've met "Debbies" in real life and the difficulty in dealing with someone like her is relatable. 

 

Speaking of the douche, the jerks continue to be bullies. While everyone is focusing on their similarities to Dan Foley, I'm actually thinking the NBA dick's "cheerleader" slam was almost as bad as Dan's partner in douchedom's "You have no soul." Not that I want to spend any more time on their dogging of Alecia, I have to wonder why we didn't see anything back at their camp between the Immunity Challenge and Tribal Council. Was it just more of the same? Did nothing of importance happen?

 

I guess they didn't have any material to create a red herring so they just cut straight to the chase. It did feel extremely rushed, I actually checked the clock when they rushed Alecia's final words in because I thought maybe there was some kind of twist coming up post-TC or something. 

 

I was on the fence about Scot before but this episode pretty much cemented the dislike. One thing I did notice is that he's only truly nasty when he's got his buddy Jason backing him up and/or a full audience of the other tribes + Jeff. When Alecia confronted him about the cheerleader remark, he softened his critique a bit (it was patronizing and seemed like a big lie, but it was interesting that he framed it differently when he was alone.) The exact same conversation went down when Cydney and Jason were in the shelter and he talked about it completely differently. 

 

With that said, I'm not sorry to see Alecia go. While she didn't deserve the ugly treatment that she was getting from the jerks, she definitely personified the dumb blond aspect. Like the douches, I wanted her to shut up as well. Actually, I'm glad she's gone so I don't have to hear her or see her occasionally weird facial expressions again.

 

I wasn't a fan of hers either, but I hate to see someone go out on those terms, especially when I don't like the people that are against them.

 

I did respect her for explaining that she was trying to be a part of the team and calling Scot out for the way he responded. I can understand people getting annoyed when someone is talking while they're trying to concentrate (See also: Debbie's relentless "frontal lobe" cheering, which would drive me around the bend), but he could have said that without the dismissive, sarcastic remark he made. She was right that working as a team would make them better at challenges. Though I guess Scot didn't really care because he knew he had a guaranteed boot and was in no danger either way. 

 

I just felt so bad for poor old Beast Mode. He won them that challenge and then he got pulled from the game. I know he had so much more to give, and it was sad seeing how devastated his tribe was. (Well, except for Nick. Because he has no feelings and I think it took all of his efforts to try and comfort the girls and look concerned.)

 

That really sucked, especially since he likely recovered by that evening and that reward wasn't worth losing his shot at the million. 

 

Felt really bad for the rest of the tribe, save Nick, who clearly had to tap into his pretend feelings. Hopefully they'll go to tribal before a swap and the girls + Tai can boot his ass.

 

I could never get over how much Caleb reminded me of Tobey Maguire (albeit a better-looking version). Hope he gets another shot to play. 

 

ETA:

 

I think Probst is in both host mode and producer mode, not in the sense of producer of the whole show, but the guy in charge on the ground.  He makes the decision to stop a challenge, discipline the players, figure out what the rules are, and consult with medical about whether someone needs to be pulled.  So, I think his ongoing narration during emergencies is both for us, the viewers, and to document and process what's happening so that he, as show-runner, can make decisions in real time.

 

My main issue with Probst's narration this time around was when he was talking to a still in-danger Caleb and kind of rubbing his nose in the fact that he was getting pulled from the game. Like, let the guy focus on trying not to die rather than the fact that his shot at a million dollars is gone. "This is as far as you're going to go..." just didn't seem necessary in that moment. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by ljenkins782

[Special K]

Felt really bad for the rest of the tribe, save Nick, who clearly had to tap into his pretend feelings.

 

This cracked me up!  He looked so awkward in those group hugs after Caleb's chopper left.  Like, "I wonder how long I should submit to embracing these earthlings so they don't suspect my extraterrestrial origins..."

[stillhere1900]

Good Lord! Why didn't TPTB give them a break from the sun and heat? Are you kidding me??After\\

 

After the first team won, there is no way that I would have risked heat exhaustion for for the second place reward of........

 

Salt & Pepper

[stillhere1900]

You may be correct in that but in that situation it seems a doctor who had any sense about themselves would have been f#*k the contract, this person needs help.  

 

I can't imagine a Dr. esp an ER Dr just standing there and not rendering aid.  Something's not right here.

[stillhere1900]

In regards to Peter not helping, it is possible he tried to, but was told to get away and make room for the medical team.  I don't really see what Peter could have done.  Last season when Jeremy rushed over to help Joe, he only stood there about a minute before the medical team shooed him and the other Survivors away. 

 

You don "shoo" an ER Dr away from a medical emergency.   NO!

[laurakaye]

I can't imagine a Dr. esp an ER Dr just standing there and not rendering aid.  Something's not right here.

And not only not rendering aid, but reclining with an umbrella over his head.  Having said that, we don't know what kind of shape Peter was in, but I would think he'd perhaps be hovering close, waiting to see if he could at least fetch something for Dr. Joe...or, at the very least, hang out by Cydney, who was being taken care of by a non-doctor pretty much the whole time.  The fact that Peter seemed pretty much checked out was really odd.  There were three people down.

 

Although, after years of working in the medical field, I can clearly see where a nurse might rush in to help...an ER doctor, perhaps not so much.

Edited March 11, 2016 by laurakaye

[stillhere1900]

And not only not rendering aid, but reclining with an umbrella over his head.  Having said that, we don't know what kind of shape Peter was in, but I would think he'd perhaps be hovering close, waiting to see if he could at least fetch something for Dr. Joe...or, at the very least, hang out by Cydney, who was being taken care of by a non-doctor pretty much the whole time.  The fact that Peter seemed pretty much checked out was really odd.  There were three people down.

 

Although, after years of working in the medical field, I can clearly see where a nurse might rush in to help...an ER doctor, perhaps not so much.

Well, I guess according to Peter's *tweet*. he did try to offer medical aid. Apparently the editing didn't make it look he did. He said that he was telling them to get the people into the water, but "they couldn't hear him"

[slowpoked]

After the first team won, there is no way that I would have risked heat exhaustion for for the second place reward of........

 

Salt & Pepper

The Brawn tribe is probably thinking that's still better than the nothing they don't have at camp. At least you can gurgle with salt water. 

 

i dunno, obviously my common sense says stop playing the challenge for mere salt and pepper. That my life is infinitely more important than salt and pepper. But these guys have endured having almost nothing for what, 11 days, that I don't fault them for still pushing hard for items that in our comfortable lives, we take for granted everyday.

[sadiegirl1999]

And not only not rendering aid, but reclining with an umbrella over his head.  Having said that, we don't know what kind of shape Peter was in, but I would think he'd perhaps be hovering close, waiting to see if he could at least fetch something for Dr. Joe...or, at the very least, hang out by Cydney, who was being taken care of by a non-doctor pretty much the whole time.  The fact that Peter seemed pretty much checked out was really odd.  There were three people down.

 

 

I am no fan of Peter and have dogged him here but I wonder if they had to keep the tribes apart? I noticed there was no "intermingling" even when the challenge was over. Can anyone confirm if other tribes were around with screenshots?

 

Something *is* off about this challenge.

[Special K]

I think they're not allowed to interact with other tribes, though we've seen people shout things at challenges (Tasha to Varner, for one).

 

I also think that TPTB probably strongly encouraged him to not help.

I give him a pass in this context given that there were others rendering aid, he is contractually bound to CBS, and he is in a foreign country.  I know doctors traveling abroad are not licensed to practice medicine in many (most?) other countries without a special dispensation (for mission work, for instance).  I think that the "is there a doctor on the plane" type of thing usually involves indemnity covered by the airline.

[azshadowwalker]

The challenge was an egregious act against all that’s good, because some folks couldn't handle the heat. But Peter is the worst ever because, after fighting through the same heat that had people on the edge of consciousness, he didn't push aside the trained medical staff and take over. Weird.

Anyway, as someone who has watched guys play football for 3+ hours in the heat of Tucson August and September days, I am not really that upset at the challenge. Not to mention the hours of summer practice before the season starts. And, yet, the team practices and plays every year. They need to make sure people stay hydrated. But the challenge itself? Not that bad. I just don't buy into the hysteria over the show being negligent. And, if that's what the show believes, we can look forward to a lot more riveting shots of people standing in place for extended periods of time for challenges.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I don't fault TPTB for putting together that challenge.  They've had plenty of other challenges in the past that involve digging in the sand to find items and they never seem to take that long.  I don't think they could have predicted that it would take two tribes that long to find the bags (and it didn't take Brains anywhere near that long).

 

I think, also, the they handled the situation fairly well when things went south - Debbie was taken care of quickly, they assessed that she was basically overheated and took steps to cool her down.  All the other members of her team looked wiped out as well, I don't have a problem with Peter not actively helping her - trained medics were there quickly and they weren't suffering from exertion in the hot sun.

 

Caleb gave no warning signs during the challenge that he was that close to collapsing, and when he did they moved in quickly and got right to work on him.  Cyndey was helped by at least one medic as well - there was a female medic in a few shots taking vital signs and assessing her, when they figured out she wasn't in any critical danger they let Kyle pour water on her, etc.  She wasn't ignored by medical, she just wasn't in as critical condition.

 

Brawn obviously threw the immunity challenge, I think if Alecia started figuring out the puzzle Cydney would have pulled the ropes out to screw her up.  I hope they all get voted out first after the shake up.