S06.E11: Knots Untie

[kj4ever]

For all the shade being thrown at the Hilltoppers I think they are a few steps ahead of the AZers.  I mean seriously while they were having book club no one thought "Hey let's grow some food!"  I mean I know Deanna had plans but they all seemed so damn lazy that they were never going to get there.

 

Does anyone know what season it is supposed to be right now?  I mean they've moved out of Georgia and are around the DC area so they should be getting snow or something at this point.  Some people have coats on and some don't so I can tell what time of year it is.  That could be why you aren't seeing any buds Maggie.

 

Hat Gregory and he needs to die.  I think Rick and Co are going to regret their choice big time.  Shit's going down.

 

Poor Carl.  Being a teenager is hard enough but now he's a teenager with a big hole in his face.  I felt bad for him when it said "A kid with a messed up face woulnd't make a great first impression."  Father of the year Rick had zero fucks to give and didn't say a word.

[JackONeill]

I can maybe fanwank a scenario where in the early days of the apocalypse that the government had already dispatched FEMA trailers to various areas and they got them up there before it was inconceivable that you could get through zombie hoards or clogged up highways with dead cars. But just like Alexandria it makes no sense that they don't know how to fight, especially with Ninja Jesus amongst them. And I think Gregory's early behavior was very much a pretense, just a way to establish whose boss. Not letting them dictate terms or agenda. Calling Maggie Natalie was to keep the upper hand, making them wash, same thing. I was reminded of Tony Soprano with the horse painting, I was like they gonna kill your horse Gregory.

Not another dead horse!!!

[RustbeltWriter]

I thought stabbing Gregory was over the top and a symptom of the sloppy storytelling this season. Negan is already holding hostages so why insist on the stabbing? Isn't the play 'give me more stuff and you can have your man back?'

 

And when Maggie and Glen were out in the garden and followed the people into the house where Jesus had been held, how did they all know to then run over and storm into Rick's house?

[Pixiebomb]

I can see why "Jesus" would be at odds with a group called the "Saviors."

Oh, wait....

Edited February 29, 2016 by Pixiebomb

[Captain Asshat]

I wonder why Jesus's friends were hiding in the building with Walkers in it ?. That seems to be unlikely. It was very dark in the building & Rick could have killed someone by accident.

 

No one explained how the car tipped over & why there were Walkers in the car.

There was no explanation of the car crash, other than "hey! a car crashed, and it's my people!" It looked like they crashed after they swerved to avoid something, judging from the tire tracks on the road. I'm guessing that the walkers in the car were either Hilltop members who didn't survive the crash, or the group was set upon by walkers after the crash (the car walkers looked fairly fresh). I also assumed that they took refuge in the building, because they wanted to get out of the open where they'd be found by...I dunno...Negan's people or walkers? They did have an injured man from the crash, so maybe they assumed they would be safer holed up in a slightly walker infested building where they could hide behind formidable objects, like desks and file cabinets, than out in the open where they'd be discovered and might have to fight. Oh, hey...did Jesus mention his people aren't fighters?

Edited February 29, 2016 by Captain Asshat

[morgankobi]

I wonder why Jesus's friends were hiding in the building with Walkers in it ?. That seems to be unlikely. It was very dark in the building & Rick could have killed someone by accident.

 

No one explained how the car tipped over & why there were Walkers in the car.

There were gooey walkers stuck in the wheels, so I believe it is safe to assume they ran some over, which (whom) got stuck in the wheels and caused the accident.

[DearEvette]

I thought stabbing Gregory was over the top and a symptom of the sloppy storytelling this season. Negan is already holding hostages so why insist on the stabbing? Isn't the play 'give me more stuff and you can have your man back?'

 

And when Maggie and Glen were out in the garden and followed the people into the house where Jesus had been held, how did they all know to then run over and storm into Rick's house?

 

1) I think the stabbing of Gregory is just more theatre to bring home the point just how eeevillll... Negan is.  Although I don't get why dude was so quick to stab Gregory.  Well, I do, cuz Gregory is a jerk.  But it seemed like he had no problem with shanking his leader without a second thought.  I mean, if Beth were alive and Negan held her and threatened to kill her unless Maggie stabbed Rick, would she have just rolled on Rick and just stabbed him like that?  What does that say about their trust level in each other?  Say what you will about CDB, they aren't gonna roll like that.

 

2) I wonder if they have walkie talkies or something?  They have to have some way to communicate over distance for emergencies.  Maybe Rick gave them all a call?

 

other thoughts....

 

I think Gregory's insistence that they shower, the willful misuse of Maggie's name is all a petty way to assert control.  I mean he has taken over a plantation and acts like he is some pre-Civil war dandy being all benevolent to the little people. The fact that Negan is bleeding his compound dry shows how very little power he has.

 

I wonder how Negan knows exactly how much output the Hilltoppers have?  Is Jesus a spy?  i mean the man is great at intel and you have to admit his coming upon Rick and Daryl the way he did was mighty convenient.

 

And finally, I am not sure what the best solution for Rick & Co. WTR to Negan.  No matter what,  a showdown is inevitable given the glimpse we saw of Negan's people with Daryl, Abe and Sasha.  They are willing to kill indiscriminately to just take what they want.

-- Do they sit tight and shore up their defenses at Alexandria waiting for the inevitable showdown because it is a certainty that Negan will come for them?  home court advantage and all that.  Now that the Hilltoppers know where they are and their own self interest can be used as a bargaining chip, no reason to think they won't throw Rick & Co. under the bus.

-- Do they take it to Negan & Co?  Go on the offensive rather than the Defensive.  Get a better sense of what they are up against rather than waiting for the fight to come to them?

 

We all know someone we like is gonna bite it, not just nameless cannon fodder like most of the Alexandrians.  I just hope Rick & Co. are not stupid about it all.

[VLove]

I know I'm petty; however, when the Govenor - I mean, Gregory, made that little speach about always loving that painting and how he would have never guessed that it would one day be his, I was done.  My sister and I both yelled, at the same time, "IT'S NOT YOUR PAINTING."

 

There is blood on the streets and he is gloating about a painting that hangs where he lives because of a zombie apocalypse.  I needed Maggie to tell him, "shut up, you sound stupid."

 

Speaking of Maggie, I'm not a fan - I will never forgvie her for spending ALL of season four (I think) leaving messages for Glenn to meet her at Terminus without nary a message to Beth - but I still was rooting for her to kill Gregory the second time he called her Natalie.

[Enigma X]

I agree that Gregory is a bully, but I really did think that his insistence for them to bathe was to keep funk out of his home and off of surfaces within his home where it would linger.

[no10pin]

I enjoyed tonight's episode, definitely a little bit of setup, but shit is going to get real fast.

My favorite moment of the year was Rick covered in blood looking at all of the Hilltopians.

I've lost track of how many times Rick has looked around and seen new people staring at the mud/blood soaked crazy man. Usually he launches into some rambling nonsense that may or may not involve one of his own people knocking him out.

This time..."What?" Awesome.

[ghoulina]

You know, you reminded me. I, too, found that scene very odd, about why he was SO insistent that he wanted them to clean up. Yeah, they did look a little rougher (they always do) than Jesus, but he'd just walked through the same mud as did they. Maybe there's a scene on the cutting room floor where Jesus tells them, as they're walking through the mud: "Now, I have to warn you: this guy is a neat freak."

 

I did get the impression that Gregory has a clean fetish. I remember how one of the first things Rick (or Daryl) remarked after meeting Jesus was how clean he was. I imagine that Gregory lines the residents of the Hilltop up every evening, like Captain VonTrapp, and inspects them from head to toe. 

 

But you can't fight every fucking body.  At some point, you will lose.  In this case, they should have just gotten some seeds and maybe a couple chickens from the Hilltoppers, given them some guns in return (I don't know how many weapons they had on them but still...), wished them luck with Negan, and headed back to Alexandria.

 

Until Negan and his group heard about CDB/ASZ from the Hilltoppers and came sauntering their way. 

 

Not to mention, Gregory didn't seem too keen to do a simple trade. He appeared to be hinting to Maggie (Natalie) that he wanted some of their members to come live in the Hilltop community. I think his plan for sending Jesus out to find people was always to get some backup for the Negan situation. Even if they had bartered food for weapons, the Hilltoppers don't appear to be seasoned fighters. 

 

I don't know, I don't have a problem with being proactive in the ZA - against walkers, sadists, etc. 

[AwesomO4000]

I'm a little mad they didn't just steal that cow. I really wanted to see them try and get it back to the ASZ, mooing all the way.

 

Heh. You just gave me a flashback to an episode of Hill Street Blues where someone was going to illegally butcher a cow in an apartment building and the cops were trying to get the cow out through the stairway, but instead a big scene happened. They needed a helicopter to get the cow off the roof instead, because as Officer Andrew Renko so colorfully put it (in his southern accent) during the television interview (due to the spectacle) as the cow was mooing away in the background "Cows don't have down genes."

 

Now I've seen cows on huge hills in California - one of the weirder sights while traveling through that state, since I have no idea how they didn't tip over - but I can imagine trying to make a cow go down a big hill if it didn't want to would definitely make it moo a whole bunch. So the mental image of Darryl and company trying to covertly get a reluctant cow to go down that big hill that Hilltop was on while it mooed its head off definitely made me chuckle. Thank you.

 

Oh, by the way, the cow in that Hill Street Blues episode? Let's just say that it didn't quite complete its helicopter trip off the roof, because the harness broke (over the police cars, of course)... and it was mooing all the way down. (Conveyed only through sound effects and the reaction of Renko and the reporter.) And yes, I laughed my butt off. (I know, I'm horrible.)

[meep.meep]

But Hilltop seems to be a better spot for Rick and crew to take over ;).

 

Because they've destroyed every other place they've been?  I give them a week before Hilltop is in ruins.

[GaT]

I think Carl is more messed up about his gunshot than he is letting on.  I am scared that Michonne will be too distracted by Negan and Rick to see that Carl is hurting and he has a good poker face.  Unlike everybody else I am not really into the character, Denise, but I think since we've got another doctor now, it would be cool for Denise to play the part of the much needed shrink.  I have two characters that should be first on her appointment book, Carl, and...

I thought it was really strange how Carl was just moving on with life. He got his eye shot out of his head, that's not the kind of thing you move on from quickly. He doesn't even have a real doctor, just doctor light who sort of knows what to do. Also, losing an eye screws up your depth perception, how is Carl going to kill the zombies if he can't figure out how close they are? There is no way he's just handling this, he's got to be on the way to a major breakdown.

[Grace284]

I like Jesus a lot, but when is he going to remove that wig and beard and reveal to those pesky kids that he was the man behind the haunted fairground all along?

[blackwing]

I was thoroughly bored by this episode.

 

I'm still wondering how it is that Carl survived.  We saw him with a hole where his eye was.  Where did the bullet go?  Are we expected to believe that he turned his head at just the right moment and the bullet hit the eye sideways and kept going?  Wouldn't Carl have died from shock or loss of blood?

[Watcher0363]

George needs Jack Bauer right about now LOL

I was excited when I learned Xander Berkeley would be at Hilltop. He's a douche but I still enjoyed Gregory like I did Mason.

When does the world not need Jack Bauer.

[SevenStars]

Rick is too quick-tempered. When that guy stabbed Gregory, Rick should have just calmed down and asked questions--for all he knew, the guy could have been a dictator that the rest of the people wanted killed--instead of starting a fight and getting more people killed. So Rick attacks and kills the guy and the guy's girlfriend (rightfully) attacks Rick--and Michonne clocks her. I was actually hoping that the woman would get up and knock Michonne the fuck out. They had only been at Hilltop for like five minutes--and shit already happened.

They didn't attack the guy, Ruck and Michonne pulled him off Gregory when they realized what he was doing. The guy is the one who started fighting with him. And I was glad Michonne knocked down the gf.

[Ohwell]

Ethan stabbed Old Greg. Rick pulled Ethan away from Greg and pushed him back - not offensively, but to create space between an attacker and his victim. Rick and Ethan didn't really get into it until Ethan got back up and came back at Greg AGAIN, intent on finishing the job.

And zombie apocalypse or not - I don't see how ANYBODY could fault Rick for stabbing the guy who's holding a knife to his neck. And that includes Ethan's dumb-ass girlfriend.

But Rick should have stayed out of it.  He had no business interfering.  Let some of the other Hilltoppers handle it.  He didn't know these people, and they certainly didn't know or trust him.  He and his crew just got there literally minutes before.  But then, once again, shit goes down.  

 

Oh, and regarding the "dumb-ass girlfriend" coming to her boyfriend's defense, Michonne would have done the same thing in a similar situation.  

 

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of CDB and I seriously don't care anymore who gets killed.  In fact, I'm looking forward to it.

 

They didn't attack the guy, Ruck and Michonne pulled him off Gregory when they realized what he was doing. The guy is the one who started fighting with him.

 

See my comments above.

 

I'm down with Jesus and I hope he's on the up and up and doesn't disappoint me. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ohwell

[marcee]

They should invite the Hilltoppers to come live in Alexandria. Bring the food, bring the livestock, bring the capable hands, leave the asshole in his mansion. There are plenty of houses to go around. Nicer than those FEMA trailers, for sure. Plenty of food to start with and capable hands to help plant and raise more. Classes to train the non-fighters to fight creates more of an army to fight off Negan if he ever does find the place.

[peach]

Poor Carl.  Being a teenager is hard enough but now he's a teenager with a big hole in his face.  I felt bad for him when it said "A kid with a messed up face woulnd't make a great first impression."  Father of the year Rick had zero fucks to give and didn't say a word.

 

Sweet Carl.  :(  But I thought Rick looked quite pained at that statement, and had no idea what to say.  And they were leaving.   Rick loves Carl beyond all reason, but he's not a real pep talk kind of guy.  I'm sure it's going to come up more in the rest of the season.

[AngelaHunter]

Rick loves Carl beyond all reason, but he's not a real pep talk kind of guy.

 

He should ask Glenn to do it. He's really good at pep talks. Pep talks and balloons. Just ask Enid.

[Timetoread]

I thought it was really strange how Carl was just moving on with life. He got his eye shot out of his head, that's not the kind of thing you move on from quickly. He doesn't even have a real doctor, just doctor light who sort of knows what to do. Also, losing an eye screws up your depth perception, how is Carl going to kill the zombies if he can't figure out how close they are? There is no way he's just handling this, he's got to be on the way to a major breakdown.

 

It broke my heart for the bullet to touch that face.  I think he's about to lose it (well deserved though it is), and seeing that is going to kill me.  It's really weird because as much as CDB claims to love each other, Michonne is the ONLY one who even speaks to Carl.  Why is that?

 

Michonne - I know you're having fun riding your new horsey, but the father must wait while you tend to the son.  Carl needs you.  Don't sleep on this.

[RedheadZombie]

I think it was incredibly stupid for the show to tell us that Gregory's knife to the gut was no big deal.  It's a big deal even when you can take the victim to surgery and dose him with antibiotics.

 

I'm nervous about Operation Negan.  Rick is just a terrible planner.  He's a great leader when plans go south, but please let cooler heads like Maggie and Glenn do the planning.

 

Sweet Carl.  :(  But I thought Rick looked quite pained at that statement, and had no idea what to say.  And they were leaving.   Rick loves Carl beyond all reason, but he's not a real pep talk kind of guy.  I'm sure it's going to come up more in the rest of the season.

 

Rick does love Carl beyond all reason.  He would be devastated to lose Judith, but we've seen him handle that when the prison fell.  It's Carl that keeps Rick sane.  I think if Rick lost Carl he'd pull a Jessie.

Edited February 29, 2016 by RedheadZombie

[catrox14]

 

r Carl.  Being a teenager is hard enough but now he's a teenager with a big hole in his face.  I felt bad for him when it said "A kid with a messed up face woulnd't make a great first impression."  Father of the year Rick had zero fucks to give and didn't say a word.

Re Carl's comment about not being something people want to look at.  I think it clearly registered on Rick's face what Carl said. He looked disturbed and saddened, but as others have mentioned he was on his way to a mission.  I am 100% sure Rick and Michonne together will talk to Carl about how he's feeling.

 

Rick is not a terrible father  and he loves Carl more than anything in the world IMO.  He'll deal with it. He couldn't quite take the time right then, and IMO Carl wasn't really keen on the discussion either. 

Rick does love Carl beyond all reason.  He would be devastated to lose Judith, but we've seen him handle that when the prison fell.  It's Carl that keeps Rick sane.  I think if Rick lost Carl he'd pull a Jessie.

 

 

That was the first thing I thought Rick was doing when he went out the door alone against the Walkers. I thought he though Carl was dead and he was done.

Edited February 29, 2016 by catrox14

[SevenStars]

But Rick should have stayed out of it. He had no business interfering. Let some of the other Hilltoppers handle it. He didn't know these people, and they certainly didn't know or trust him. He and his crew just got there literally minutes before. But then, once again, shit goes down.

Oh, and regarding the "dumb-ass girlfriend" coming to her boyfriend's defense, Michonne would have done the same thing in a similar situation.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of CDB and I seriously don't care anymore who gets killed. In fact, I'm looking forward to it.

I actually kind of agree with you that Rick should have let them handled it themselves. Which means that Ethan would have stabbed Gregory to death. Then there would be no leader, and they would have started fighting amongst themselves cause what Ethan did. While all of that is going, Rick and his group could have simply start taking whatever they wanted and keep it moving without any deals.

That would have made Rick the villain but it would have been a smart move.

[peach]

Btw. is Melissa McBride contractually obligated to disappear for a row of episodes each season? I know,  a lot of characters sit out an episode or two on this show, but it feels like every season Carol is disappearing for a large chunk of episodes.

 

She was a major focus of the first half of the season, so I guess now she's had a break.  The previews for next week showed her again.

[maystone]

Did Maggie take his horse painting? I find it hard to believe that Jesus would "follow" this guy, Gregory. Ninja Jesus who steals trucks and can get out of Houdini traps wouldn't sit around and let someone weak call the shots and even if he knew he couldn't defeat Negan he would always be hatching a plan or have a secret stash or something working against the Negan system. I noticed for a ninja he did absolutely jack squat when Ethan and the returning members attacked Gregory. Rick and Daryl immediately jumped to the rescue. 

 

I think that Jesus is smart enough to know that he's the man behind the curtain (to keep on with your OZ metaphor [The Wizard, not the prison show]) while Gregory is the blustering grandiose asshat who only thinks he's running the show. Jesus would be wasted sticking around Hilltop doing the petty bureaucrat thing when he could be using his ninja skills to the advantage of the whole community by gathering intel and looking for likely allies.

It seems like Alexandria went down hill fast after Deanna's death. How long was CDB in Alexandria before the Horde broke in? Just a couple weeks right? They had plenty of food. They let the ants get the cookies. They were throwing casseroles around (did porchdick throw it or drop it? And I can't remember if Deanna threw it or just left it on the front porch). But regardless, they seemed to be stocked quite nicely. Then in two months it's all gone. They went from sweater sets and book clubs to murder for hire. No forethought- no rationing. Maybe Spenser has been stealing it all.

There was rationing in place when the Ricksters first arrived at ASZ. It probably wasn't rationed properly given what we know about the Alexandrians as they were pre-CDB, and I think Aaron had mentioned that the scouts were having to go farther afield to scavenge. The arrival of our guys added 12 (11?) more mouths to feed as well. Whatever gardens were growing when we first met the ASZ crew were no doubt trampled when the herd came through. You're right that they were being awfully careless about food, but then they were careless about everything: support posts on the outside of the walls, anybody? No one on watch duty? Ever? No one armed or trained to use arms? I'm sure the vast majority of the community spent most of their ASZ lives just assuming that food would always be found when needed.

 

Sweet Carl.  :(  But I thought Rick looked quite pained at that statement, and had no idea what to say.  And they were leaving.   Rick loves Carl beyond all reason, but he's not a real pep talk kind of guy.  I'm sure it's going to come up more in the rest of the season.

 Oh, yeah. Rick looked sad and taken aback by what Carl said, but as has been pointed out - they were off on a mission. And besides, as much as I love what's left of the Grimes family (and I love them to the moon and back), I can only think back to Rick's last pep talk. The one on the farm when Carl didn't want to touch a gun ever again. I believe it went something like, "I'm gonna die. Mom is gonna die. I am way too tired to do this, Carl, so just take the gun, OK?" On the other hand it worked like a charm :)

[peach]

I think Rick also knows this isn't a 30 second conversation he needs to have with Carl.  Better to hold off til he has time.  And it's hard for a man like RIck.  He can't fix it.  He can't undo it.  He can't beat it up.  His son is permanently injured, and there's nothing he can do about it.  And I'm sure he bears guilt over it happening at all.

[Ocean Chick]

She was a major focus of the first half of the season, so I guess now she's had a break.  The previews for next week showed her again.

 

Interesting that it seemed like she was a major focus, and yet only appeared in about 2 1/2 episodes really.  She got good time in JSS and a few scenes with Morgan arguing about the wolf in 2 other episodes, where other things were also going on.  Now she's been absent for 3 episodes.  I guess they figure a little Carol goes a long way.

[peach]

Interesting that it seemed like she was a major focus, and yet only appeared in about 2 1/2 episodes really.  She got good time in JSS and a few scenes with Morgan arguing about the wolf in 2 other episodes, where other things were also going on.  Now she's been absent for 3 episodes.  I guess they figure a little Carol goes a long way.

 

LOL.  Well, her kill ratio is pretty high.

[TattleTeeny]

I was thoroughly bored by this episode.

 

I'm still wondering how it is that Carl survived.  We saw him with a hole where his eye was.  Where did the bullet go?  Are we expected to believe that he turned his head at just the right moment and the bullet hit the eye sideways and kept going?  Wouldn't Carl have died from shock or loss of blood?

Maybe Carl was a fan of watching 24 hours of A Christmas Story before hell broke loose, and just channeled Ralphie?

[riverheightsnancy]

Too bad we didn't get a gender reveal for little Beth or Hershel.

 

Do we know how far along Maggie is? Gender differentiation does not occur until after week 9 or the 3rd month. That ultrasound did not look like much. I teach infant/child development, and I have seen 8 week embryos that were more defined. But, I don't often look at ultrasound pics either other than to show what an ultrasound looks like. I usually use other types of pictures with higher definition and color. 

 

Disappointed that we get zero of the Alexandrians in this quest with Jesus. What about Aaron or Tobin? Because we never had an episode regarding the aftermath of the Zombie invasion, we have no idea how many people are left, who died, yada, yada. Who the hell was left to watch the Alexandria when all the strong fighters are gone? Carol, Carl, Rosita, Spenser? It would be nice to integrate a few of the Alexandrians into the mix more consistently.  I do not think that Maggie should be negotiating or along for the ride. She is pregnant and if they want the baby, they are putting her at undue risk. They barely have a doctor and historically women died in childbirth more than at any other time. Does she not remember Lori? Plus the exertion requires more calories, which they may not have. If they get in a pickle, and no water, she is at risk. I don't get it.  The ONLY reason she is there, is because she is a major character. If they want to keep the baby, she should not be out fighting or holding a hostage like Jesus who can escape everything. PLUS, (my last nitpick), if they get captured, the fact that she is pregnant makes her a liability and she is risking the baby. Michonne is MORE than able to negotiate. I don't think that anyone she be negotiating with anyone alone either. 

 

In addition, Gregory may be a clean freak, but everyone at Alexandria should not smell (other than Daryl) because they shower and have great facilities. We even saw Abe and Rosita going to shower and they looked clean. Really liking the Jesus character and the actor was engaging on TTD. 

[Ocean Chick]

Who the hell was left to watch the Alexandria when all the strong fighters are gone? Carol, Carl, Rosita, Spenser?

 

I don't think I'd include Spenser with that group - remember how he couldn't hit the broad side of a semi during the wolves' attack?  Or much of anything else either.  I think he needs a bit more time at the shooting galley before we can include him in the ranks of strong fighters.  He was even too much of a weanie to help AT ALL during the wolf attack.  He stayed behind with his mommy to protect him.  The first 3 are the only strong fighters we know who were left behind.  For whatever reason.

[diebartdie]

1. The as yet unexplained build up of walkers in the pit outside Alexandria.

What do you mean? It was explained reasonably well considering none of our heroes were actually there to see how the walker pit got started.....going with what they observed, a group of survivors set up camp down in the gravel pit (why there? Who knows, doesnt matter, they thought it was super safe) then used the semi's to block off both entrances to the pit. Then either someone in that group died and turned, got bit then turned or a random walker  tumbled in and got bitey. That small group all turned and started doing what walkers love to do more than anything (besides biting), MOANING. That noise drew other walkers who tumbled in and on and on. No mystery there, nothing nefarious either. Just one unlucky group that picked a shitty place to hunker down.

[bmoore4026]

Who else had a craving for cranberries after Rick stabbed that one guy in the neck?

[Guest]

 

This was what I was thinking when Abraham started succumbing to dude's chokehold; he was seeing his dead wife - or Sasha - or Rosita - or a shaved dolphin - a someone whose appearance in his last-gasp vision immediately clarified their importance in their life.

As to who, however, I think the jury's still out.

 

No, its not.  I distinctly heard female murmuring during that scene so I check the CC: this morning and he was hearing Sasha's voice.  I still have no idea why what Sasha said meant anything about anything but its was Sasha.

[lulee]

Do we know how far along Maggie is? Gender differentiation does not occur until after week 9 or the 3rd month. That ultrasound did not look like much. I teach infant/child development, and I have seen 8 week embryos that were more defined. But, I don't often look at ultrasound pics either other than to show what an ultrasound looks like. I usually use other types of pictures with higher definition and color. 

The show hasn't been specific, but I'm guessing she's probably meant to still be fairly early maybe 7 weeks, by which time - if they're going for some degree of authenticity - there'd be a bean-ish little blob on the ultrasound. And although sex differentiation begins to occur when you said, last I heard (my kids aren't babies anymore) it's not until more like week 14 that there's any chance - and requiring a very good view - of being able to make a good guess from an ultrasound, and it's a few more weeks after that the boy or girl guess becomes pretty reliable.

[festivus]

Sasha does deserve better storylines than she is given. She has been doing nothing all season. (But it feels like most of the characters that aren't Rick don't get a lot to do on this show.)

 

I want a storyline for her too, but I DO NOT want it with Abraham. As adorable as I find Rick and Michonne, Abe/anybody is yuck. I'd rather have some story with him and Eugene. Something else for Sasha.

[Guest]

I have been thinking about it and I don't trust Hilltop or Jesus. There are three possibilities for how we ended up with CDB deciding to confront Neegan.

 

1. It all came about exactly as presented.

2. Jesus and Hilltop were looking for a community to take on Neegan.

3. Neegan is pissed over the RGP and made a deal with Jesus/Hilltop to draw ASZ into a trap in return for eliminating/reducing their payments

 

Here is the stuff that is bugging me.

1) Jesus happens upon Daryl and Rick and steals their stuff.  Then he conveniently gets a flat tire so they catch up.  Then he decides to hitch a ride on top of the truck.

2) Jesus scopes out ASZ down to the number of people and inspection of the armory

3) Jesus brings ASZ to trade and then explains how they don't need anything ASZ has (ammo or medicine)

4) Neegan picks a time ASZ is visiting to send a message to Hilltop (the acting during which was either really bad by Hilltop or they were enacting a play...it was odd.  I'm not saying I think Gregory volunteered to get stabbed but if there was a collapsible knife and a bag of pig's blood I wouldn't be surprised because everyone was acting like CDB went off script because no one was supposed to get hurt)

5) Hilltop gave ASZ half their supplies up front after Neegan took half with no negotiation after knowing them less than a day.

 

There are somewhat plausible explanations for all of that.  Taken together, I find it implausible.  So I think the best case is that Hilltop is manipulating others to fight their battle and worse case is that they are placating Neegan in hopes that the bully will go away if they give them their lunch money and a new kid to pick on.  Jesus will come to know and love CDB and warn them at the last possible minute.

Edited March 1, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[AngelaHunter]

I still think it's kind of weird how Maggie was stressed out that her not getting enough food, fresh veggies, etc. may cause harm to the baby, but doesn't seem to think that going off to do battle with Negan and his gang may indeed prove much more harmful to a fetus.

 

Wouldn't Carl have died from shock or loss of blood?

 

Not really, since the bullet obviously didn't penetrate his head. People have suffered much more grave and gruesome injuries and survived.

[peach]

I kind of can't blame Rick for his seeming cockiness.  When the story was told that Negan tortured and killed a 15 year old boy (now we all know that in show time Carl is about 10 but we are going to have to deal with the biological reality of actor C. Riggs), that hit Rick where it hurt.  Rick knows that the last dudes who tried to get at his son had their insides removed by Daddy Rick.  Daddy Rick won't tolerate such a man looking at his son or daughter for kicks.  I guess Rick decided to skip to the chase rather than wait for this fool to come to him.  I'd do the same.

Fuckin' A!

I don't think I'd include Spenser with that group - remember how he couldn't hit the broad side of a semi during the wolves' attack?  Or much of anything else either.  I think he needs a bit more time at the shooting galley before we can include him in the ranks of strong fighters.  He was even too much of a weanie to help AT ALL during the wolf attack.  He stayed behind with his mommy to protect him.  The first 3 are the only strong fighters we know who were left behind.  For whatever reason.

 

He's probably busy hoarding the last of the food.

Edited March 1, 2016 by peach

[Ohwell]

Michonne sitting in that van and looking all googly-eyed at Rick is a bad omen for her.  

[Macbeth]

-

  Xander Berkeley (Gregory) pulls off creepy likes it an Oscar category.  Dude just exudes it every time I see him on something.

 

Love Xander.  He can play the sympathy card too. He started out as a tool on 24 but  you ended up rooting for him in the end.   Of course it took a deadly dose of radiation, but still....  I was thrilled to see him.  It was completely unexpected.  This is A+ casting for me.

[catrox14]

-

Love Xander.  He can play the sympathy card too. He started out as a tool on 24 but  you ended up rooting for him in the end.   Of course it took a deadly dose of radiation, but still....  I was thrilled to see him.  It was completely unexpected.  This is A+ casting for me.

 

 

Same. Oddly, that was the literal first episode of 24 I ever watched, and I had to go back and watch the episodes leading up to that ....man.  Quite an arc.

[mandolin]

Watching this episode again (like in the good ol' days; this is my 3rd or 4th watching!). After seeing the the Jesus actor is british on Talking Dead last night, his accent on the show is very well done.

 

Also, when Carl first sees Rick and Michonne come out of the bedroom and then again at the table in the kitchen...Chandler Riggs uses that one eye for some awesome emotion and movement. Hilarious.

 

Xander Berkeley was also on Jericho for a bit; I don't remember the details. Wonder if he and Lennie James are pals at all.

Edited March 1, 2016 by mandolin

[ShadowSixx]

I almost laughed at Rick explaining to Carl about sleeping with Michonne. Rick was talking to Carl like Carl is the adult and he needs to get Carl's approval. Carl is probably going to only care if Rick slept with someone that Carl doesn't trust or like or if Rick slept with Enid or found out if Rick slept with Maggie. So if Rick said he slept with Sasha, Rosita, or Carol, Carl will more than likely have the same reaction. 

 

I also didn't like Rick asking Michonne is she ready to fight/infiltrate Negan's group. Rick, Michonne is not weak ass bitch Lori. Know full well Michonne can fight and take care of herself and she'll be more than willing to do it. I mean her not running out there to help you kill the zombies after Carl got shot didn't tell him anything I don't know what will. 

 

I don't know why Carol gets excluded from these outings, she's someone you want to take with you, because Carol gets shit done. Her cover is nice being an older female, some are not going to take her seriously which would be the opponent's greatest error. I would be taking Carol with me everywhere. 

 

I have to wonder what Morgan is going to think about them going after Negan, because Morgan doesn't want to kill. 

 

IDK if writers are trying to get us to care about Rosita/Abe because I don't care about either one of them. Rosita has been showcased so little even though we seen that she's more than capable of handling herself. There's just not been enough development between them besides sexing each other up. They really do need to put Rosita in scenes with Carol, Sasha, Michonne, Rick, Daryl, Morgan, etc.

[Bannon]

Houdini Jesus last week was the final straw for me. I DVRed this episode as normal, prepared to hate-watch it in my typical 20 minutes, and couldn't even bring myself to do that.

 

So long, live, dead, and undead, alike!!

[Pete Martell]

I almost laughed at Rick explaining to Carl about sleeping with Michonne. Rick was talking to Carl like Carl is the adult and he needs to get Carl's approval. Carl is probably going to only care if Rick slept with someone that Carl doesn't trust or like or if Rick slept with Enid or found out if Rick slept with Maggie. So if Rick said he slept with Sasha, Rosita, or Carol, Carl will more than likely have the same reaction. 

 

I also didn't like Rick asking Michonne is she ready to fight/infiltrate Negan's group. Rick, Michonne is not weak ass bitch Lori. Know full well Michonne can fight and take care of herself and she'll be more than willing to do it. I mean her not running out there to help you kill the zombies after Carl got shot didn't tell him anything I don't know what will. 

 

I don't know why Carol gets excluded from these outings, she's someone you want to take with you, because Carol gets shit done. Her cover is nice being an older female, some are not going to take her seriously which would be the opponent's greatest error. I would be taking Carol with me everywhere. 

 

Michonne is like a mother to Carl, so I think he's more protective of her than if it were Rosita or Sasha or the woman who was in charge of weapons at Alexandria, etc.

 

I think he asked Michonne if she wanted to go against Negan mostly because he sees her as an equal partner. I think that is also the reason he asked Lori what she wanted to do - but her response was more of a passive-aggressive, "You're the man, you're in charge." 

 

Didn't they say Carol was not in Alexandria at the moment?

[rogueprinzess]

1) I also didn't like Rick asking Michonne is she ready to fight/infiltrate Negan's group. Rick, Michonne is not weak ass bitch Lori. Know full well Michonne can fight and take care of herself and she'll be more than willing to do it. I mean her not running out there to help you kill the zombies after Carl got shot didn't tell him anything I don't know what will. 

 

2) I have to wonder what Morgan is going to think about them going after Negan, because Morgan doesn't want to kill. 

 

1) I didn't perceive that as Rick wondering if Michonne was capable of taking on the attack; I think Rick has shown many times that he trusts Michonne to get shit done. I believe he was looking to her for reassurance that he wasn't making an epic mistake by going through with this. Even though Rick talks a big game, he often second guesses himself and judging by his body language after his talk with Michonne, he's truly worried about how this could turn out. Michonne is someone who seems to sense when Rick is going "off the reservation" as it were (i.e. when she knocked him the hell out after his fight with Pete) and she could talk Rick out of something like this if she wanted to. I think Rick was just making sure he wasn't being a complete "Ricktator" about this.

 

2) Methinks Morgan is going to be very not on board with this.

His face during the speech Rick gives in the Church about the attack said a lot.

We've already seen how he's treated people that openly attacked innocents with premeditation. I highly doubt he's going to be okay with mounting an attack unprovoked, even if these people are ultra-violent. Methinks this group is going to be the one that ends Morgan, which saddens me greatly because Lenny James is such an amazing actor. He's pretty much been wasted since the "Here's not here" episode. I guess the other outcome could be that Negan/the Saviors cause Morgan to break his Akido pledge and get back to a-murderin' with Rick. *kanye shrug* Who knows?

Edited March 1, 2016 by rogueprinzess