S01.E03: Counting One More

[Kiss my mutt]

I'm still thinking about those kids at the orphanage who only get one crayon.

[BitterApple]

I'm still thinking about those kids at the orphanage who only get one crayon.

I wonder if they do that so the kids don't hide them or fight over them. Sure doesn't allow for much creativity though.

[Vaysh]

I'm still thinking about those kids at the orphanage who only get one crayon.

 

Wut? Is that on the show? Did Jill bring them one crayon each? What's the point of one crayon, what can you possibly draw with that?

[Ripley68]

The kids could use as many crayons as they wanted, but only one crayon at a time. It looks like way to keep track of the crayons and keep them from getting all over the room and being fought over.

 

That was the weirdest film birth I've ever seen.  No one was really in frame, they only had half of Jessa's face at any given time, like they were trying to avoid filming the left side of the room.

 

I think Ben did fine for a 19 year old naive kid.  I'm surprised that Jessa let all that be shown and that she went through the home birth.  She seems to ego centric for all that.

[Almost 3000]

Nope. Michelle never had a midwife. Miss Teresa was Anna's attending "midwife" for the first two deliveries. But she is not even certified as a lay midwife, only a doula. Venessa is the founder of A Mommy's Butterfly and lost her license in ar, but has since been vindicated and may be practicing in AR again.

Venessa and/or whoever can post as her entity on the Butterfly FB page trashed Miss Teresa, and either her or Jill's shack midwife made the claims of Teresa bailing on deliveries with complications.

I know Michelle never had a midwife but there was a Dr who had problems and his midwife wife that moved to Texas. Was that Teresa?

So let me get the rest straight:

1.) Anna had Miss Teresa for 1 & 2. Who was it that she drove for an hour to get to? Who did her last two?

2.) Jill trained with Miss Teresa and switched to finish with Vanessa, right? Who do we think was her midwife for Izzy? Who was the shack midwife? I thought she was the Butterfly group. Vanessa?

3.) Jessa probably had a midwife there who didn't want to be on camera or social media. Any guesses who that was?

I probably made that more complicated then it needs to be but I'm rather fascinated by all these godly battling midwives.

[Sew Sumi]

No, it was Venessa (owner of A Mommy's Butterfly) who started practicing in TX after she lost her license in AR. The Fedoskys (Miss Teresa and her husband) have never left NWA. HER husband was the doctor who lost his license after he stole and sold controlled substances. She is NOT a midwife, only a doula who did the Bradley classes that Boob/Mechelle and Smuganna attended on camera. It is she who was strongly rumored to have attended Jessa.

 

Hope this helps clear up the confusion. 

 

eta that TLC has now named this episode "Counting One More," and the updated episode description reads: "In the SERIES FINALE [all caps mine], Jessa has complications and must be rushed to the hospital. Meanwhile, Jill and Derick adjust to their new life in Central America." I guess the prior description of having dinner with adoptive parents didn't bring in the ratings that TLC wanted, so they splashed up Jessa's complications, which took up about one minute of the episode to bring in a bigger audience tonight. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Almost 3000]

Thank you, Sew Sumi. I obviously had Teresa and Vanesa and their scandals mixed up big time.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Almost 3000

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, what a tangled web they weave! LOL

[88Keys]

Congratulations !!

 

Thank you!

 

Guys...wasn't this supposed to be a special about sexual abuse?  And how to deal with it and stuff?  Did they even talk about that stuff at all?

[JoanArc]

Thank you!

 

Guys...wasn't this supposed to be a special about sexual abuse?  And how to deal with it and stuff?  Did they even talk about that stuff at all?

There was a situation. The situation, the situation happened, there was counseling for the situation. The situation. Never described exactly what happened, or the help the got. Just the situation. Situation, situation, situation.

 I think what happened was this guy molested a few of the girls:

 

[Marigold]

I'm very very crunchy and homebirths are all the rage.

I think Jessa and Jill like the idea of being crunchy.

Jill is "baby wearing" and all. Which conflicts with the Pearls "beat your infant with a rod" parenting.

The Duggars make no sense whatsoever.

The only thing that does jump out is filming in a hospital is a pain. Filming at home is much easier...you can sit on the toilet and scream, bleed out, take a nap (or a porn break) or labor for hours. Way more fun at home!!!!

Edited December 30, 2015 by Marigold

[cereality]

Caught some of the episode today was bonus scenes. Earlier I had thought that Ben had just gone out for the huge pizza with the bros in law and they had picked the kid restaurant bc it was comp-ed. So I assumed that like grown ups, they ate and left. Nope -- the bonus scenes were all about the guys playing laser tag and bowling. And these activities seemed fun to them. I feel like the last time boys want to have a laser tag birthday party is for like birthday number 11 or 12. The youngest bros seem no less than 16-17, ranging up to JD at age 25 and yet they are sheltered enough that this is fun for them? Why not be like regular guys? Sure they won't go drinking, but why not a sports bar with a million TVs or a ball game or a golf course/driving range?? They seem so stunted that they don't even get age appropriate activities.

 

And interesting that JD said they rarely get to hang with Ben bc he and Jessa are so close that he can really hang out without her. Really?? He's working no more than 10-20 hrs a week at odd jobs created by JB, any schooling (if any) is done online with Jessa snuggled on the couch next to him, and yet 2 hrs away every week would be SO heartbreaking? Do they realize that couples work 40-50 hr/wk and STILL try to maintain some of their own friendships separate from the spouse??

[Sew Sumi]

Thank you!

 

Guys...wasn't this supposed to be a special about sexual abuse?  And how to deal with it and stuff?  Did they even talk about that stuff at all?

I think you are confusing this mini-series with the one-off that TLC produced about sexual abuse. Jill, Jessa, and Mechelle were briefly shown in that mess and had a couple lame talking heads that added absolutely nothing to the conversation. They were at a lecture by some expert on abuse, yet this was when they were still portraying themselves as victims of the press, not their brother. 

 

eta because that post snuck in about the "boys'" party. I don't recall seeing anyone younger than 18 at that table. Joe was the youngest one there; the next Howlers in line are the boy twins, who were still 16 when they filmed this (their 17th is sometime around now, but I'm too lazy to look up the exact date...I just remember the end of December for them). 

 

I think this limitation was placed on the Duggars by TLC. The only minor I remember with any kind of speaking part was Jordyn's gender announcement. And she only got that due to "buddy" status with her really shitty sister mom. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Homily]

Nope -- the bonus scenes were all about the guys playing laser tag and bowling. And these activities seemed fun to them. I feel like the last time boys want to have a laser tag birthday party is for like birthday number 11 or 12. The youngest bros seem no less than 16-17, ranging up to JD at age 25 and yet they are sheltered enough that this is fun for them? Why not be like regular guys?

 

I know lots of guys who like laser tag - or am I confusing this with paint ball?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Homily

[PityFree]

I know lots of guys who like laser tag - or am I confusing this with paint ball?

I organized a laser tag party for my office when I was in my late twenties and the men in my department (20s - 40s) loved it (as did the women) so I don't think it's just a little kid thing. Of course, we had beer and pizza, also.

[Loves2Dance]

My husband is 30 and would take a lazer tag party any day of the week; he also likes bowling, beer and pizza. He isn't into sports, but if it involves shooting at things he's game. I don't really think the location was weird since they took a filming crew; do you really wanna see the Duggar boys at a sport bar on a weekend during football season? Okay, maybe, but it wouldn't make for some good wholesome TV. 

[duggarshow]

Nope -- the bonus scenes were all about the guys playing laser tag and bowling. And these activities seemed fun to them. I feel like the last time boys want to have a laser tag birthday party is for like birthday number 11 or 12. The youngest bros seem no less than 16-17, ranging up to JD at age 25 and yet they are sheltered enough that this is fun for them? Why not be like regular guys? Sure they won't go drinking, but why not a sports bar with a million TVs or a ball game or a golf course/driving range?? They seem so stunted that they don't even get age appropriate activities.

 

I don't know. This doesn't seem at all stunted to me. My sons range in age from 19-25 and they love laser tag as do their contemporaries. 

[Sew Sumi]

I guess TLC decided that Ben was going to look more mature, so there could be no scenes of him really letting loose and having fun. There's no other reason that the scene wound up on the cutting room floor for the episode. I mean, seriously, how many people go to TLC - or any other channel's online outlet - and watch outtakes/"bonus" footage? For instance, I've watched Top Chef since its inception, but have yet to view a single episode of Last Chance Kitchen on Bravo. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Ina123]

I haven't met a man yet who doesn't enjoy laser tag. If it involves shooting...most men are in. Age doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

[charmed1]

I really only watched to see if Jessa would let a few swear words fly during that painful labor.

One of the boys, I forget which one, said they enjoy having Ben as a brother in law because he brings something new to the family. I'm paraphrasing, so just translate that into Duggar language. I thought that was really sad because Ben is quite dull to me, but to those kids, with his frat shag and oh so cool sideways turned baseball cap, Ben is probably the Dylan McKay to their very boring world.

[becca3891]

3.) I thought the show was boring and it was obvious Jill and Jessa are not close. They could not hold a five minute conversation with each other.  I think both Jana and Joy looked very pretty - much prettier than past shows.

 

See, I think this comes down to the awkwardness of reality TV. I am no fan of the Duggars' beliefs but we need to remember that we're not watching real life. When "conversations" start, like Jill asking Jessa if she's ready for the birth while making hot chocolate, that's all set up by producers and for all we know, we're watching the fifth take. They're terrible actors and never let me forget for a minute that they're being filmed with guidelines and suggestions. So really, I do think they're close. You couldn't spend a lifetime in a huge dorm room with someone and at least not be completely at ease making small talk.

[JenCarroll]

Ben isn't old enough to go to a bar.

[JenCarroll]

I just finally saw the episodes (found someone that recorded them) and I am pretty sure that both boy twins and also the next boy down -- Jason? Justin? (Jorge? Julio? Jean-Luc?) -- were at the pizza outing. There were way more than four people at that table; it couldn't have been just the adult sons. I'm not sure the younger ones said anything, but they were filmed.

Out of that entire crowd, I think the only one old enough to be in a bar is JD. Laser tag and bowling seemed like a perfectly reasonable choice to me.

[lookeyloo]

See, I think this comes down to the awkwardness of reality TV. I am no fan of the Duggars' beliefs but we need to remember that we're not watching real life. When "conversations" start, like Jill asking Jessa if she's ready for the birth while making hot chocolate, that's all set up by producers and for all we know, we're watching the fifth take. They're terrible actors and never let me forget for a minute that they're being filmed with guidelines and suggestions. So really, I do think they're close. You couldn't spend a lifetime in a huge dorm room with someone and at least not be completely at ease making small talk.

Totally agree with this.  I posted something similar, maybe not in this thread.  They are not just having cameras follow them around.  Each scene and talking head is set up and probably gone over a few times.  When Derrick does a talking head it seems like he is pleased he got the correct words out in the correct order.

[JenCarroll]

See, I think this comes down to the awkwardness of reality TV. I am no fan of the Duggars' beliefs but we need to remember that we're not watching real life. When "conversations" start, like Jill asking Jessa if she's ready for the birth while making hot chocolate, that's all set up by producers and for all we know, we're watching the fifth take. They're terrible actors and never let me forget for a minute that they're being filmed with guidelines and suggestions. So really, I do think they're close. You couldn't spend a lifetime in a huge dorm room with someone and at least not be completely at ease making small talk.

I'm sure they know each other well and are used to each other, but I get the feeling they don't really like each other much. Which, I can attest, is absolutely possible for two siblings that grew up sharing a bedroom.

[louannems]

OMG! They did NOT black out the newborns bum during the in-hospital diaper changing scene! But wait! They DID so as not to defraud us!

[Barb23]

I don't think playing laser tag is in question. It's that they were shown at Kiddie Funland with them getting an **oooh how exciting ** huge pizza. I do realize they have to keep up their wholesome image. As boring as it may be, I would have rather them being shown playing pool or darts at a sports bar type of place WITH OTHERS THEIR OWN AGE. Doing something adventurous like tossing peanuts at one another. Could you imagine them in a Hooters type restaurant? After Joshley's escapades in his own Funland, these guys will be 60 & still only allowed to go to Kiddie Funland.

[mimionthebeach]

I'm sure they know each other well and are used to each other, but I get the feeling they don't really like each other much. Which, I can attest, is absolutely possible for two siblings that grew up sharing a bedroom.

This is what I think. Jessa seems to have been a bit of a pest as a child and Jill was the tattler. There were lots of options for besties in the room so these two didn't have to like each other.

Edited December 30, 2015 by mimionthebeach

[Absolom]

Ratings are in and they did well: 2.470 M viewers and a .82 rating.

[Marigny]

Ma and Pa Duggar are doing their very best to get themselves back on camera full time. 

 

Thanks to the traumatic birth, Michelle secured a TH. You know she was geeked. 

 

ETA hey, Ben. Justin Beiber circa 2011 called. He wants his hair back.

 

 

I don't understand why the Duggars are always cooking in someone else's tiny kitchen when they have a huge commercial setup at the TTH. 

I'm really beginning to believe that half of those appliances no longer work. Even when the original show was on, I noticed they didn't do as much cooking in the last few seasons as they had done previous years. There was a whole lot of quick prep and microwaving going on. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Marigny

[JoanArc]

Ratings are in and they did well: 2.470 M viewers and a .82 rating.

Damn. They're getting a regular show.

[MarysWetBar]

This is what I think. Jessa seems to have been a bit of a pest as a child and Jill was the tattler. There were lots of options for besties in the room so these two didn't have to like each other.

Jessa likes to be HBIC.Jana, Jill and Jinger are more passive but Jill was the rat of the bunch, so Jessa wouldn't always have her way if Muffin ran to Daddy.

Damn. They're getting a regular show.

Hush.

[Absolom]

If they can get one of the kids engaged soon or Jill gets pregnant, I don't think TLC can resist if they can line up advertisers.

[JoanArc]

If they can get one of the kids engaged soon or Jill gets pregnant, I don't think TLC can resist if they can line up advertisers.

Josh is out of rehab in February. That's enough. Looks like the Cash4Gold folks are gonna be able to buy a lot of cheap ad time!

 

Oh, and Damn the president of TLC to hell.

[Barb23]

Ratings are in and they did well: 2.470 M viewers and a .82 rating.

Hoping people were just bored at the end of the Christmas weekend & needed something to watch. Or were just interested in Spurgey's birth & of course,TLC planned it to be shown at the end of the show so everyone would keep watching.

[Churchhoney]

I think Jessa and Jill like the idea of being crunchy.

Jill is "baby wearing" and all. Which conflicts with the Pearls "beat your infant with a rod" parenting.

The Duggars make no sense whatsoever.

 

 

Interesting, though not surprising, that for all the talk about "don't conform to the world; shape the world to your principles" and so on that the Duggars are in fact complete fad followers, after every Pinterest wind that blows and so on. ....

 

Such clear evidence that being taught to have no thoughts other than a list of pre-approved ones leaves people without any capacity for or interest in thinking for themselves. They're utter followers in every way and completely irrational.

 

In the name of protecting them from the bad world, their idiotic parents left them completely at the mercy of it, in the long run.

Hoping people were just bored at the end of the Christmas weekend & needed something to watch. Or were just interested in Spurgey's birth & of course,TLC planned it to be shown at the end of the show so everyone would keep watching.

 

This worries me, though. What in the world did anyone expect to find interesting in Spurge's emergence from his incredibly boring mother with his incredibly boring father by her side?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Micks Picks]

Whether we like it or not, these folks have a lot of followers.  They get very good ratings for what I considered far too boring to watch, like Jill and Jessa's courtships and so on (it seem to me to go on for years)  and they can put these shows on during times when people are just unlikely to be watching television at all, like these 3 episodes, and they receive extremely good ratings.  We here at PreviouslyTV wondered who would watch during the holidays, and now we know.  We were wrong.  Well, that's America, we have a lot of different interests, for good or ill.  

[Gemma Violet]

The second episode had fewer viewers than the premier, so I'm thinking this latest episode garnered more viewers simply because of the birth segment.  Still, there's no doubt in my mind TLC is foaming at the mouth to produce some more episodes.  I'm afraid we'll have the Duggars back regularly.  It pains me to say it.

[Stripper Glitter]

Lots of conversations about adopting.  I'll bet both Jill and Jessa won't give birth again anytime soon, if ever.  

 

Jill will. I get Jill because we are similar in that regard (interests in pregnancy, L&D, etc. And I am starting midwifery school next week!) But Jessa? "Oh this is so painful" when you know she really wanted to let it fly lol. Princess will be happy with one or two and done IMO.

[becca3891]

I'm sure they know each other well and are used to each other, but I get the feeling they don't really like each other much. Which, I can attest, is absolutely possible for two siblings that grew up sharing a bedroom.

Fair point. What with having to keep sweet, we'll never know if they are all really as close as they claim to be. I'm probably biased in favor of believing them because I've remained very close with my two siblings and have been my whole life. But I know that isn't nearly always the case.

 

I don't think playing laser tag is in question. It's that they were shown at Kiddie Funland with them getting an **oooh how exciting ** huge pizza. I do realize they have to keep up their wholesome image. As boring as it may be, I would have rather them being shown playing pool or darts at a sports bar type of place WITH OTHERS THEIR OWN AGE. Doing something adventurous like tossing peanuts at one another. Could you imagine them in a Hooters type restaurant? After Joshley's escapades in his own Funland, these guys will be 60 & still only allowed to go to Kiddie Funland.

I can't really get behind this complaint. Lots of adults are into pizza and laser tag. There's plenty to complain about when it comes to their patriarchal and homophobic beliefs. And while I am as liberal and open-minded as they come, I still don't think that drooling over and objectifying women at Hooters is anything to be proud of. I'm not a prude and realize that sexual attraction is natural, but I don't have to like the objectification.

[kokapetl]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

I think they went to the pizza and video game arcade place because we saw Ben and Jessa take the howlers and lost girls there during the courtship, and now Ben was on the threshold of being a parent. It would've been the producer's idea in both instances.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Kokapetl

[lookeyloo]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

I think they went to the pizza and video game arcade place because we saw Ben and Jessa take the howlers and lost girls there during the courtship, and now Ben was on the threshold of being a parent. It would've been the producer's idea in both instances.

totally agree about the producer's idea - had to be arranged, staged, etc.  And maybe filmed at a low occupancy time so as not to inconvenience regular patrons.  

[Tabbygirl521]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

This comment has me rolling, especially about Ben. This looks like the caricatures you can have made at the county fair.

I would purpose to say that Jessa looks like alien Reese Witherspoon.

[BradandJanet]

Bin looks clean in the caricature. The artist failed to capture that just-rolled-out-of-bed, three-days-short-of-a-shower look about him.

[JenCarroll]

So, has JD become a lot more articulate suddenly, or is it just that he rarely spoke before and he looks like such a doofus that I made assumptions about him?

[Muffyn]

The final and most significant issue in Jessa's case is that she is an idiot and had unqualified, poorly trained (non-trained most likely) birth attendants.  

Doodlebug, thank you for your detailed and articulate post regarding birth complications.  Thank you most for the clear statement of Jessa is an idiot.  I feel like almost every conversation regarding these people needs to start with this qualifier.  Because of course Jessa is an idiot who married an idiot and is surrounded by idiots.  The real miracle is none of these idiots has won a Darwin award yet.  

 

I don't remember the exact reason for his jaw surgery....something about his palate being narrow or something.  Maybe someone else can elaborate.

Derrick has a marfanoid body type.  That is, he has a body type that is more commonly associated with people with Marfan's Syndrome.  He may or may not have the syndrome - I am not doing a couch diagnosis; there are many factors beyond body type.  However, with his build and jawline, it is common to have a very high palate and a jaw that is more narrow than the skull could support and is misaligned to the skull.  In extreme cases, this can cause everything from problems with the sinuses not draining properly, difficulty clearing the mouth when swallowing, teeth breakage, damage to connective tissues in the jaw, pain when chewing and talking, jaw dislocations and wearing down the TM joint to the point that the bone and/or cartilage can crack.  In surgery, they may crack the hard palate and reset it lower (this part is not always done).  The jaw is broken and widened to better align the joints.  While the jaw is healing, you are on a liquid or extreme soft diet.  Even that is difficult because swallowing and sucking are painful and put stress on the joint.  So he lost a lot of weight quite rapidly.  You then need braces to move the teeth to positions that now match the new jaw, aligning the upper and lower teeth.  It is pretty traumatic surgery; however, if a person has a really bad jaw issue it is worth it to stave off the long term issues.  (FYI - I had the palate reconstruction and had a custom appliance placed in my TM joint because of cartilage and bone cracks.  Fun times!) 

 

While it always seems a little strange when people see themselves on TV then have surgery that affects their appearance, I doubt this had to do with looks.  He is a good age to have this corrected.  

 

On to the snark!  

 

I finally watched all of the episodes.  Apparently I hate myself.  I was defrauded by Jessa’s green tiered skirt.  During the photo shoot, it looked see-through.  Nike!  And Derrick's jeans in Guatemala were also pretty dang defrauding.  There was a wear pattern that really empathized his package.   I really need brain bleach.  Vats of brain bleach.

 

I am actually surprised to see them with fresh fruit and vegetables.  Are they not going to pass on the family tradition of tater tot casserole and all canned crap?

 

Anna calling the house their “starter home” made me laugh.  About now, she’ll be lucky if Josh can get them two refrigerator boxes to live in under a freeway overpass and not just one he scrounged from a dumpster.

 

After binge watching the three episodes of Counting On (I really need to think about self care - no one deserves this level of torture) I can declare these are dull, insipid people who are not worth watching.  TLC, please stop.  Just stop.  

[Joe Jitsu913]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

I think they went to the pizza and video game arcade place because we saw Ben and Jessa take the howlers and lost girls there during the courtship, and now Ben was on the threshold of being a parent. It would've been the producer's idea in both instances.

Jessa's got a chin that would put Jay Leno to shame.

[Sew Sumi]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

I think they went to the pizza and video game arcade place because we saw Ben and Jessa take the howlers and lost girls there during the courtship, and now Ben was on the threshold of being a parent. It would've been the producer's idea in both instances.

I'm guessing Paris street art. She wore that jacket a lot on the honeymoon.

[Spencer Hastings]

So, has JD become a lot more articulate suddenly, or is it just that he rarely spoke before and he looks like such a doofus that I made assumptions about him?

Probably a little bit of both, coupled with the fact that he's had nothing worthwhile to say on camera. He doesn't seem to be interested in much of what his family does and therefore doesn't have a whole lot to comment on in his TH segments. This Josh situation gave him something to say.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Yet I think that is part of their problem, they think they can DO this birth thing. But actually your body is going to do what it is going to do, your pelvis is the size it is, the baby is as big as it is, and facing the direction that it is facing, and as Doodle mentioned your uterus is going to do what your uterus wants to do. The only true thing they can out warrior each other on is tolerating pain.

I guess since Fundy women and girls are allowed so little freedom, and women regardless of age or origin tend to be competitive with other women as a rule... the only bragging rights most of these girls have is: whose courtship was more "special", whose wedding was nicer, whose husband is more "amazing", and whose birth experience packed more drama. Face it, this is what their whole life and self worth is based on ---getting hitched and filling up their quiver...sad but that's what they believe, even tough it sounds ridiculous to anyone who's been allowed to actually have a normal life experience.