S31.E02: Survivor MacGyver

[Nutjob]

 

By the way.  Andrew is disappointing me more than anyone.  I watched Pearl Islands and Andrew was one of my favourite players.  Isn't that terrible?  It's hard to remember why I liked him but what's burned into my memory is this shot of Andrew and Tijuana on the beach -- in tattered work clothes -- Andrew with a toothpick in his teeth for some reason -- that I thought was so dramatic and beautiful.  That tribe was really struggling, right?  And Osten was crying and quitting every single day.  And Andrew and Tijuana were like the parents trying to hold everyone together.  Also, I thought Andrew was handed such a bad deal by the game and had become incredibly depressed towards the end of it.  He was like a Shakespearean figure to me in that season.  Osten was hilarious, Ryan was hot, but Andrew was one of my favourites.  Now he just seems so weird and I think he's been affected by Pearl Islands ever since in a bad way.

Totally agree with this. For me, the moment is when Fairplay came and "robbed" their camp, and Savage just went on that rant about how they were going to get back at them for it. Their tribe was so beaten down at that point, and he single-handedly won that next challenge for them. (I believe he called Fairplay a "pissant," which I could never be mad at.) This time around he's skeeving me out. I will say, though, that Fishbach needs to cool it with the open paranoia until he can get his alliance more established. J.T. isn't here this time.

 

I'm someone who both can't stand Abi and thinks that Shirin terribly misplayed the situation with her. If you're going to make Abi your goat and align with her, then you have to understand that you're going to need to coddle her and put up with her behavior unless you're willing to cut her loose before the finals. She is a Russell Hantz. She is a Coach. You can't upset her enough to make her flip unless you're sure you still have the numbers even if that happens. Laughing openly at her with all of her other alliance-mates was the worst possible thing Shirin could have done.

 

That said, I also love Jeff and hope he doesn't drag her along so that I have to watch her for a long time. She is so exhausting.

[RedheadZombie]

Savage wants to vote Stephen out because he wants to play with people who have morals and he has decided Fishburn is too busy looking for an idol which is apparently not moral. Hand me my rifle.

Is that why Savage was questioning his morals and ethics? There have been several veiled innuendos in this episode's posts, and I'm feeling a little dense. I got the impression that people are implying Stephen is gay, and Savage is a homophobe.

ETA. Damn autocorrect. Homophone and homophobe are not the same.

Edited October 1, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Special K]

That would be great if Savage was a homophone:  sounds like something familiar but is actually something else!  Sounds like a heartbreaking story while actually being a banal bit of self-aggrandizement!

 

I do sense some underlying innuendo regarding Stephen but I was leaning more to it being about his being Jewish.  Is he?  The spelling of his first name throws me off a bit (Stephen vs. Steven).

[Etta Place]

Spencer's speech at tribal, aside from being desperate and cringe-worthy, seems like the absolute worst possible speech anyone with a brain would want to hear. "I am good at puzzles, constantly strategize, am a young male who can possibly win challenges, and I promise I will now also be all about building genuine relationships!"

 

They should have voted him out just for that.

[jsm1125]

I wonder if it was possible, given the vote split to flush out a potential hidden immunity idol, for Shirin and Spencer to try to work with Peih-Gee and Kelley to send home whoever they please, especially if Kelly, Woo, Terry, Abi Maria, and Varner end up on the wrong side of the vote with a (presumably) 4-3-2 vote split?

 

I know that Kelley has the hidden immunity idol, but rejecting this plan could put suspicion on her as having the idol. Plus, it seemed that Peih-Gee and Kelley genuinely wanted to work with Shirin and Spencer until the challenge loss.

[Wings]

Is that why Savage was questioning his morals and ethics? There have been several veiled innuendos in this episode's posts, and I'm feeling a little dense. I got the impression that people are implying Stephen is gay, and Savage is a homophobe.

ETA. Damn autocorrect. Homophone and homophobe are not the same.

 

 

No.  I didn't get that at all.  Stephen is socially awkward and Savage, in some burst of mind fluff, thought that one should play the game with feelings and chat with tribe members and not always be focused on the game.  I guess he wanted others to share things in their life as he did about his wife.  

 

He used the word moral with some others.  Basically he was waxing poetic about them all becoming friends and having good conversation outside the game.  

Edited October 1, 2015 by wings707

[Nutjob]

That would be great if Savage was a homophone:  sounds like something familiar but is actually something else!  Sounds like a heartbreaking story while actually being a banal bit of self-aggrandizement!

 

I do sense some underlying innuendo regarding Stephen but I was leaning more to it being about his being Jewish.  Is he?  The spelling of his first name throws me off a bit (Stephen vs. Steven).

I always thought it was more that people think Savage likes to bully skinny, geeky types like Fishbach and Fairplay. Maybe I'm the one reading it wrong, though. ;)

[Special K]

I always thought it was more that people think Savage likes to bully skinny, geeky types like Fishbach and Fairplay. Maybe I'm the one reading it wrong, though. ;)

 

It's possible.  I don't remember Savage's earlier season.

[ICantDoThatDave]

I wish Abi Maria could be a member of every tribe on every season.

[Miss Scarlet]

I said it last week and I'll say it again - Savage is insufferable. 

 

How does he get through life continuously bragging about himself without anyone ever telling him he's incredibly self-indulgent and to stfu? Or maybe they do and he just doesn't listen to them? I am actually curious about this.

 

It's fine to say you don't like someone or that you don't want to work with them, but to say such extreme things like "they have no morals and no values" is just vitriolic. I feel like he was trying to say that Stephen has no morals or values because he's unmarried, meaning that he doesn't live his life the way Andrew does or hasn't made the "right" life choices? I don't even understand what Savage was actually trying to say. I really hope the main point of his whole edit this season is to show what a giant asshat he is to himself and to everyone else and get him accosted on twitter. Although if he didn't learn anything from his awful behaviour on Pearl Islands there's probably no hope for him.

 

As others have pointed out, Stephen is his new Skinny Ryan. Savage really is just like Probst, not just in age and appearance, but in personality. They cannot stand men who are "intellectuals" because they're envious and it's too threatening. They also cannot stand men who they feel are "beta" males and who do not spend every waking moment trying to become "alphas" because it reminds Probst and Savage of what they don't like about themselves and invalidates their life choices/the need for their facades of manliness. Or because they just need to put someone else down to feel good about themselves.

 

 

His hypocrisy over Fishbach's comment is typical Savage. A more self-involved tossbag you will not find. He has this impossibly narrow view of gender - men are these 3 qualities, women for the most part are irrelevant because they lack those qualities. Exist beyond those boundaries and he has nothing but contempt for you.

Yeah and it is so frightening. Of course he defines his wife only through her attractiveness. That's the only thing that matters about women to him. He is such a sexist prick.

 

Apparently there's a secret scene that got edited out with Stephen talking about how easy he finds it to live outdoors. I also noticed that in the IC he made it up to the top of the second pyramid on his first try, while Savage slid back down and had to try again. But of course the edit only presents the narrative of Stephen as a bumbling nerd. Does the show seriously not understand that it's better not to force people into archetypes and that they'd have a much more compelling product if they showed the players' multi-dimensionality? Why do they think we want to watch a show where all the "characters" are walking stereotypes? Because it's easier? Because Survivor has the same audience that Two and a Half Men did? You're killing me, show. 

Edited October 1, 2015 by wudpixie

[mojoween]

Wait, is that a thing? That Andrew's big issue in PI is that the twist screwed him over?

Well fuck that noise. Maybe if he wasn't such a dickhead he wouldn't have gotten his ass voted out, Lil or no Lil.

And if I am remembering correctly, he didn't make family time last go 'round so I sincerely hope he's bounced before it this time. I actually don't want him to make the jury because I don't want to watch his smug assholery wafting across the TC set for weeks on end.

Wow. 25 seasons on and the way I loathed him then has come screaming back and just as vehement.

[Daisy]

No, I really don't think it's the same Stephanie Savage from Gossip Girl.  THAT Stephanie is Canadian.  Andrew's wife is from the island of Mauritius.  

 

By the way.  Andrew is disappointing me more than anyone.  I watched Pearl Islands and Andrew was one of my favourite players.  Isn't that terrible?  It's hard to remember why I liked him but what's burned into my memory is this shot of Andrew and Tijuana on the beach -- in tattered work clothes -- Andrew with a toothpick in his teeth for some reason -- that I thought was so dramatic and beautiful.  That tribe was really struggling, right?  And Osten was crying and quitting every single day.  And Andrew and Tijuana were like the parents trying to hold everyone together.  Also, I thought Andrew was handed such a bad deal by the game and had become incredibly depressed towards the end of it.  He was like a Shakespearean figure to me in that season.  Osten was hilarious, Ryan was hot, but Andrew was one of my favourites.  Now he just seems so weird and I think he's been affected by Pearl Islands ever since in a bad way.  

 

Anyway, I like BOTH Spencer and Woo.  I'm really glad Spencer stayed because while I don't think I would get along with him in real life he's one of my favourite players.  Truly fascinating for so many reasons and a completely different personality type than usually does well on this show - hence why Probst thought he was a total loser who shouldn't even make the cast.  I thought him crying on the beach was hysterical?  I thought it was a bad acting job?  I read it as completely not genuine and I have no issue with it.  Good on him for even playing the audience! 

 

 

That does make me think Jeremy's a good guy though. : )  I love how much he loves his wife.  And the role reversal of his marriage (his wife seemed very emotionally strong and stoic.)  I love Jeremy.  I love that so far he's not in danger like last time.  

 

truthaboutluv, I absolutely love your Survivor posts.

 

I can't hate Joe for how the camera/editing/other players treat him.  There doesn't seem to be a negative bone in that guy's body.  Literally and figuratively.

 

 

 

First (not to this post) this is how the the Savage Wife Story went.

Savage: so, yeah, I had a client and he was with playboy and so my wife came to visit me, and i just had all these playboys on my desk, HARHARHARHAR 

Kimmie: how did you meet your wife

Savage: so my wife was a model and won a modeling competition (me: like America's Next Top Model?!) then she got to travel all over the world (oh so NOT like ANTM). so i got home one day i'm in a suit and my roommate had this hot woman there, and you could chop the sexual tension, and she left, and she came back, and we got the married BOOHOOHOOOOO.

 

and honestly, I liked Savage before (for the same reason). I didn't really see the douchey or whatever, and going by what a lot of people said about Lil, wellllllll..... but holy poop, he's making me NOT liking him now.

 

re: the joe. I think Joe was liked so much because he was one bright spot on an eww season. now people are kissing his behind it's like well eh's not that good. and not that smart. Joe should be playing possum. 

[Zuleikha]

I'm not particularly fond of talking and laughing about someone behind their back. But (to me) there's a huge difference between snickering at what Abi has said and done, and standing over someone as you call them a soulless, friendless person who will never be loved. Night and day, IMO.

 

I wouldn't call it night and day. I think it is different because PG was being much more exasperated and much less personal than Will (will we ever know what the hell was up with that "have no soul" crap?), Shirin was known to have already dealt with being on the outs prior to Will blowing up at her, and also Abi had been stirring up crap with PG for a while. But I also think it was very much the same in that whatever the cause, both Shirin and Abi were in tears feeling unsupported. Abi and Terry were both right that just out of common humanity, Abi's alliance mates should have come to check and comfort her and say they were sorry, and it was mean to leave Abi out by herself. Also, I really believe that Abi honestly had no realization that she was stirring sh*t with PG. I believe Abi thought she was magnanimously being polite and putting in effort to build a strong relationship with PG. So while to me, the difference between what happened with Will and Shirin and what happened with Shirin, PG, and Abi was different, I don't think to Abi there felt like a difference.

 

On the other hand, Kelley tweeted that other people did go and check up on Abi, so unless we get more detail from that, it's hard to know how abandoned/isolated Abi really was. Was Abi just mad that Shirin personally didn't check on her (which Shirin may not have thought of doing if other alliance members were going)? Did Terry simply talk to her first and longest so Abi discounted the others? Was something significantly different about how other people checked up on Abi compared to Terry?

 

The one thing I think we can all agree on is that Varner is playing a hell of a game right now and really played the first 6 days as well as he could have. He's flipped on two alliances and seems to be only the stronger for it. There's a lot of game left, but at least right now, he is just playing at a completely different level from the rest of his tribe. 

 

Abi is lucky that Shirin and Spencer aren't actually good social players, though, because a better player in their shoes should have been able to flip the vote back to Abi. PG and Kelley would have gone with it in a second if they felt confident in either a split vote letting 4 votes be a majority to oust Abi or if Shirin/Spencer had been able to flip an Old Schooler (like I suspect they could have gotten Kelly Wiglesworth if they played things right and I don't rule out the possibility of getting Woo if they'd done a much better approach). I wish Kelly, Woo, and Terry had more "about the game" interviews because every time Varner talked about Shirin/Spencer being threats, all I could think of was how insulting that is to the other people he was talking to. What do Kelly and Woo think about Varner? 

[kikaha]

 

What truly disturbs me is that I think the editors (i.e., Probst) actually thought that Andrew's story was touching, even in the version that was broadcast.

 

 

The editors and Probst weren't the only ones who found Andrew's story touching.  Looked like the entire tribe was deeply moved.  Jeremy was in tears.  Tasha's eyes were welling up, as were Kass'.  Kimmi and Ciera both had lumps in their throats.  Everyone there seemed rapt with Andrew's story. 

 

Those people were not faking it.  So I think either it didn't come across well on the tube, or parts got edited. 

[Hera]

I'm glad they came out and said that the social game is still vital. I never thought I'd say this, but Woo was right. You can't talk to someone for the first time in six days and expect them to want to help you. An alliance isn't just numbers, it's a relationship.

This is what Taj said in Tocantins. If you want someone to vote with you, you have to make them feel like they have a relationship with you. Waiting until right before the vote isn't going to work. And anyway, Woo would have been dumb to flip. I don't think anyone would follow him to Spencer and Shirin's side, so his flipping would have put him on the wrong side of a 6-3 split. If Spencer and Shirin had come to him with two other votes in their pocket, then voting with them might be worth doing.

 

Shirin should thank her lucky stars that she had Dan and Will around last season. Not that I'm saying she deserved the smack down Will gave her, but thanks to that as well as the chauvinism and sexism with the men, she really got a golden edit. I really think it would have turned out much differently for her if she had been the annoying tag-along super fan. So she blew another puzzle, too. If she ever does come back hopefully they know better than to let her perform in a puzzle task again.

When she started shouting behind the puzzle-solvers, I was thinking, "Shut up! You totally blew the one puzzle you were on in your original tribe." I couldn't believe they let her sub in for someone. She may be good at puzzles in the privacy of her own home, but there is zero evidence she's good at them under pressure.

 

In general, I can't say I'm sorry to see her gone. As I and others have said, she did not deserve Will's attack last season. But even before that, I didn't rate her much as a player and as far as I'm concerned, this season has proven me right.

 

I understand wanting to keep the goats around, but this early in the game, don't teams need some brute strength? Voting out Vytas last week, and almost Spencer this week undermines the physical strength of the team. And since they've lost both immunity challenges, I thought that strategy was odd.

In general, I think "keeping the tribe strong" as a voting strategy only makes sense if you are one of the "strong" people and are making an argument for why people should keep you. Not every challenge requires brute strength (or even much athleticism) and anyway, if you've gone head-to-head with the other tribe in a largely athletic challenge and lost, then that suggests that your "strong" people can't beat their "strong" people, and you'll probably keep losing. I don't blame people for making the argument (either to keep themselves in the game or to get rid of someone who's a threat), but if you're out-matched athletically, I think it's better to try to get rid of people who are going to screw up your game or aren't allied with you.

 

Once you're in a season of returnees and have to worry about pre-game alliances and relationships, then it becomes even less about what's good for the tribe and far more about what's good for a player's alliance, which may well include people who are on a different tribe.

 

Spencer, to me, came across just as cluelessly, obviously insincere and desperate in his tribal plea...how could anyone be swayed by this speech?  "I don't just care about the game, I'm going to start caring about you as people from now on!  That's what I need to do to stay in the game, right?  Tomorrow I will start making a list of everyone's interests and hobbies, and I promise to spend 30 minutes or more a day speaking to you about them!"

It was indeed desperate, but it was also better than Shirin's pitch, which was basically, "I can try to be more likeable the way you guys want me to be, but don't expect a miracle." As others have said, the vote was probably decided before they got to tribal council and the speeches had no effect, but if I were playing, I'd probably prefer to keep the person who is desperate and willing to put as much effort as he can into pleasing me than I would the person who says, "I'll chip away at it." They're both potentially dangerous players, but Spencer has shown a flexibility that I just don't think Shirin has.

 

I'd love for a shake up to put Kass and Abi on the same tribe.

There is nothing I am hoping for more than this. Both are emotional players who will wreck their own chances of winning in a heartbeat over perceived slights. In fact, I couldn't believe it when Kass claimed that she had ignored the emotional aspect of the game last time—her game was nothing but emotional, though I suppose it was all about her emotions, as opposed to anyone else's. The question is, if Abi and Kass play together, do they become fast friends, feeding each other's overreactions or do they become mortal enemies, forcing people to choose one brand of unpredictable over the other?

[JusLaugh]

He may be very self involved and manipulative in a manly-man way, but I don't care. Savage needs to stay around for a while to be my eye candy. After the personality outweighs the looks, they can cut him loose. But not 'til I say "when".

[BigRedCheese]

 

When she started shouting behind the puzzle-solvers, I was thinking, "Shut up! You totally blew the one puzzle you were on in your original tribe." I couldn't believe they let her sub in for someone. She may be good at puzzles in the privacy of her own home, but there is zero evidence she's good at them under pressure.

 

I don't know, to me it looked like they should have had her working on it from the beginning, she almost pulled it out for them in the little time remaining.

[Zuleikha]

I don't know, to me it looked like they should have had her working on it from the beginning, she almost pulled it out for them in the little time remaining.

Yeah, she and Spencer seemed to do a good job working together. Also, if they weren't shown a picture of the intended solution (which I don't think they were), I'm not sure why Ta Keo's solution wasn't considered right. Neither puzzle solution literally flowed together, so I don't see why having a repeated identical image the way Ta Keo did is less legitimate of an interpretation than the intended correct solution. I don't think immunity challenge puzzles should have any ambiguity.

[Hera]

The vines beneath the figures didn't line up. Each half of the puzzle needed to be mirrored from the way Shirin and Spencer solved it. It's very subtle and incredibly frustrating, which I'm sure is what the production team was going for when they made it.

[kikaha]

I don't know, to me it looked like they should have had her working on it from the beginning, she almost pulled it out for them in the little time remaining.

 

 

Here's what I saw:

 

1.  Shirin freaking out and panicking as she got some pieces stuck together;

 

2.  Her thinking she had solved the puzzle -- loudly proclaiming victory -- only to learn she hadn't solved it at all.  In fact, she was miles away from the solution.  She and Spence had one of the two Hindu (?) figures that made up the focus of the puzzle facing the wrong direction. 

 

3.  Meanwhile, Joe (who came in after Spencer, and with what looked like about equal progress in the puzzle), actually did come up with the solution. 

 

So I don't believe Shirin shined at all at the puzzle.  It wasn't close at all. 

[HurricaneVal]

Probst made some pretty clear hints about the puzzle with his commentary "Every piece flows into the next piece" or something along those lines. When Joe started putting it together with the two figures mirroring each other, that's what you saw. When the losing tribe started putting theirs together, they had one side reversed so the two figures were exactly the same, and you could see where things were abruptly cut off (like they would be at the edge) rather than all flowing. I think they were fumbling until Peachy made that comment, then a lightbulb went off for the one tribe that didn't go off for the other.

Joe making hammocks out of the fishing nets didn't bother me, since even after he put up that cluster of 4-5 hammocks in the palm grove, you could still see a massive pile of fishing net sitting there under a tree.

What I want to know is, next week after they split the two tribes into three (as shown in the preview, no spoiler here), what happens to all that stuff? Who gets to pack and keep what items? What about Kelley's buried HII? Will she have time to retrieve it, or will she just have to shrug it off as lost to her, unless the merge brings them to that camp again?

Survivor has always had fantastic cinematography and editing, but this season so far has been unbelievably good. Even though all the temple shots are very far away from their beaches, it still gives you a sense of place and culture. I gasped out loud at the shot of the one temple that morphed into the angry looking clouds over the water that held the same shape, it was just that gorgeous.

Edited October 2, 2015 by GenL
Previews talk

[truthaboutluv]

Here's what I saw:

 

1.  Shirin freaking out and panicking as she got some pieces stuck together;

 

2.  Her thinking she had solved the puzzle -- loudly proclaiming victory -- only to learn she hadn't solved it at all.  In fact, she was miles away from the solution.  She and Spence had one of the two Hindu (?) figures that made up the focus of the puzzle facing the wrong direction. 

 

3.  Meanwhile, Joe (who came in after Spencer, and with what looked like about equal progress in the puzzle), actually did come up with the solution. 

 

So I don't believe Shirin shined at all at the puzzle.  It wasn't close at all. 

 

How I remember it is that Spencer came in and replaced whoever was doing the puzzle with Kelley Wentworth. As soon as he came in, Shirin started yelling and screaming out instructions which he was trying to follow but the other tribe members were screaming as well and confusing him. Eventually Shirin went in to replace Kelley. A few moments into her working on it, she started getting frustrated and practically trying to force the sticks into slats. Eventually Spencer seemed to calm down and get a momentum and figure out the puzzle. They almost got it, except the flower was in the wrong position and so they lost. That's why I think Shirin and others had stopped yelling and calmed down a little, Spencer might have worked out the puzzle but she was freaking out and making him and everyone else freak out and it just became a complete mess. 

[peachmangosteen]

Are we sure that's the same Stephanie Savage?  Andrew's wife was born in Mauritius, and I can't find anything saying that the producer was born there, nor do I find anything saying the producer is married to Andrew Savage.

 

Yea, it doesn't appear to be the same person, but if you google Andrew it links to the Stephanie Savage that's a producer as his wife.

 

Savage needs to stay around for a while to be my eye candy.

 

I am so disturbed by how attractive I find him tbh. Him and Jeremy are the best looking guys this season imo. Too bad I don't like either of them.

Edited October 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[seasick]

I wonder if it was possible, given the vote split to flush out a potential hidden immunity idol, for Shirin and Spencer to try to work with Peih-Gee and Kelley to send home whoever they please, especially if Kelly, Woo, Terry, Abi Maria, and Varner end up on the wrong side of the vote with a (presumably) 4-3-2 vote split?

 

I know that Kelley has the hidden immunity idol, but rejecting this plan could put suspicion on her as having the idol. Plus, it seemed that Peih-Gee and Kelley genuinely wanted to work with Shirin and Spencer until the challenge loss.

 I think this idea had promise.  You would think they could have gotten PG at the very least to vote for Abi. and either kelly's a possible 4th.  I can even see KellyWigs wanting to get rid of Abi.  She's old Skool and probably doesn't subscribe to the "goat" idea.   But with the edits I hardly remembered she was on the tribe!

 

The editors and Probst weren't the only ones who found Andrew's story touching.  Looked like the entire tribe was deeply moved.  Jeremy was in tears.  Tasha's eyes were welling up, as were Kass'.  Kimmi and Ciera both had lumps in their throats.  Everyone there seemed rapt with Andrew's story. 

 

Those people were not faking it.  So I think either it didn't come across well on the tube, or parts got edited.

Well , someone in the editing booth doesn't like him coz he Definitely got the major "Douche" edit there. .  Probst:  Don't forget to include Savage's "truly romantic love story"   Edit guy: Yeeaaah.....no problem.

[Mreid]

I didnt hate Shirin but I just saw her play last season thats why Im not upset that she is gone I am really pulling for the old school players to go as far as possible.  Abi Maria has to be the most annoying female player in the history of Survivor  in my opinion. I find it odd how she says she felt bullied by everyone laughing at her when she is the one who interrupted Jeff, Terry, and Woo while they were talking and she is also the one who got directly into PG's face and says so what's going on PG. Like seriously Abi you already know PG doesnt like you and then you make it more arkward. PG has a lot of patience because I would have lost it.  I know a lot of people seem to dislike Andrew Savage but he doesnt bother me.  I see nothing wrong with him getting emotional over his wife, and he definitely deserved a second chance if it werent for that outcast twist he probably would have gone much further.  

[Wandering Snark]

Yeah that puzzle was tricky, especially if you were one of 53 people trying to work on it at the same time, while panicking...

 

There were two figures, A&B and A needed to be on the left and B on right. They has B on the left and A on the right.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Wandering Snark

[kikaha]

How I remember it is that Spencer came in and replaced whoever was doing the puzzle with Kelley Wentworth. As soon as he came in, Shirin started yelling and screaming out instructions which he was trying to follow but the other tribe members were screaming as well and confusing him. Eventually Shirin went in to replace Kelley. A few moments into her working on it, she started getting frustrated and practically trying to force the sticks into slats. Eventually Spencer seemed to calm down and get a momentum and figure out the puzzle. They almost got it, except the flower was in the wrong position and so they lost. That's why I think Shirin and others had stopped yelling and calmed down a little, Spencer might have worked out the puzzle but she was freaking out and making him and everyone else freak out and it just became a complete mess. 

 

I think your description is spot on, with one key exception.  Shirin's/Spencer's mistake was not merely that they put the flower in the wrong position.  They pointed the figure on the right side of the puzzle in the wrong direction.  This is a huge error.  Even if they figured out what the mistake was, it would have taken them a long time to correct it.  Or so I think.  I just watched this again, stopping the video to see the mistake. 

[princelina]

More interesting questions to me:

1) why, as a self-proclaimed student of the game, did he not see the need to relate to people before he was at risk of leaving the game?

2) is his new found "social awareness" a tool to gain three more days of does he *really* undestand that he needs to connect to people? Honestly, I'm not sure he knows how to connect. We saw him before, frustrated that he couldn't get to people. Then when he's not frustrated, what does he do? Not connect to people, apparently. At this rate, I'm beginning to think Kass does have more game than him (social game, definitely, strategic to be confirmed).

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but overall I think people who read others well and can relate to them have a better chance at this game than those who understand the game but disregard the people aspect. I'd be happy to discuss it further in a new or in one of the existing all seasons thread.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think your conclusion is faulty. If you're socially awkward - as many agree Shirin/Kass/Spencer are, it's not that simple.

 

From what I recall, last week Spencer mentioned that he knew that his original downfall was thinking of the game like a chess match and not spending enough time developing relationships, and said that was what he was going to work on this time.  And as someone else posted, he didn't seem to be doing that badly with it; just got on the wrong side of the numbers.  But even as he was working on it, as an innately socially awkward person, he won't do it as well as a "people person" could, and he still might have trouble "reading" the subtle social cues of others.  

 

I can't hate Joe for how the camera/editing/other players treat him.  There doesn't seem to be a negative bone in that guy's body.  Literally and figuratively.

 

I am too old for finding Joe to be a hottie, and never went for the "man bun" type anyway, but Joe has had me since he said (last season):  "After I knew I was going to be on Survivor I googled making a fire and practiced until I could do it."  And last night, whilst making hammocks and catching fish and trying to be invaluable, he mentioned something like "I don't want to be out here and not DO stuff!"  And it was the same vibe I got from him last year - that he is thrilled to be out there and experience every second of it and every thing he can do.  I really believe that he would prefer to do all the stuff he does and not win, rather than lie around camp like a Tyson and win.  Although of course he wants to make it to family visits so his dad can come and DO it.  So I'm rooting for him to get there.  And I think that while he may not be the greatest Reality TV personality, he's probably an interesting guy to know and be friends with.  Which is more than I can say for most "interesting" Reality TV peeps.  (Yes, Kass and Abi, that means you two.  And the Hantz family)

[bagatelle]

Are we sure that's the same Stephanie Savage?  Andrew's wife was born in Mauritius, and I can't find anything saying that the producer was born there, nor do I find anything saying the producer is married to Andrew Savage.

 

You're right, it's not. The Stephanie Savage we can easily find in a Google search is Canadian, went to U of T and is not married to Andrew Savage.

 

I always thought it was more that people think Savage likes to bully skinny, geeky types like Fishbach and Fairplay. Maybe I'm the one reading it wrong, though. ;)

 

Andrew seems to instantly dislike tall, slim men who don't have large muscles. Ryan from Pearl Islands was his immediate target, which was a shame, because the kid had a lot going for him. His animosity towards Stephen seemed pretty quick and I got the Ryan vibe all over again, which reminded me why I hated Andrew so much.

[millennium]

Abi is a sociopath. I don't believe all this nonsense about her being a nice person in real life, sociopaths are good at faking.

 

This episode showed me that we're officially residing in Crazy Town (or Crazy Island). I want to say that I can't believe I have to suffer through another season of Abi's insane bullshit, but I knew this was going to happen.

 

Did you notice Abi's eyes during her one-on-one with Shirin?    They were dead eyes.   Her whole expression was scary, like Captain Howdy decided he needed an island vacation.

 

I may have said so last week, but I really don't like any of the players this season.   Not even one out of 20.  How can my personal taste be so far apart -- 100% apart -- from that of the people who voted these assholes to return?   You would think the law of averages alone would net me at least one or two players to cheer on, but there's nobody.  How can that be?

Edited October 2, 2015 by millennium

[truthaboutluv]

Did you notice Abi's eyes during her one-on-one with Shirin?    They were dead eyes.   Her whole expression was scary, like Captain Howdy decided he needed an island vacation.

 

They weren't dead to me, they were crazy "I'll stab you in your sleep" eyes.

[BigRedCheese]

 

They weren't dead to me, they were crazy "I'll stab you in your sleep" eyes.

 

I don't know if any of the players read this board, but if they do, I apologize for every vote I gave Abi to put her back in the game. I honestly thought she would be different this time, my bad.

[yamashinaryu]

Some thoughts after re-watch,

 

Spencer’s edit is similar to that of Cagayan’s. Would that mean he will be the underdog (yet again) this season? That speech and crying though.  

 

The conversation between Jeff and Abi was shown in black and white. Any thoughts about it?

 

Perhaps there’s more to Savage’s story. I am not getting why everyone’s crying.

 

I really enjoyed the Shirin, Spencer and Woo scene.  Woo being not a “dog”, in your face Spencer.

 

Too much Joe and Varner for the first two episodes.

 

Cambodia is beautiful. Are they allowed to bring a camera as luxury item?

 

PG and Kelley seem to be the darkhorses.

 

I am not sure about the new Kass.

[Gweilo]

I know it's only two episodes in, but wouldn't it be great if this turns out to be "Survivor: Greek Tragedy Edition."  Like the contestants try valiantly to change how they play, to learn and grow, but their tragic flaws are greater than their will!?

 

..with Probst lowered from a helicopter on a crane, playing the role of the deus ex machina.

[ProfCrash]

I don't know if any of the players read this board, but if they do, I apologize for every vote I gave Abi to put her back in the game. I honestly thought she would be different this time, my bad.

As someone he did not give her one vote because she was so bat shit crazy and annoying, I accept your apology.

[Trick Question]

I wonder if it was possible, given the vote split to flush out a potential hidden immunity idol, for Shirin and Spencer to try to work with Peih-Gee and Kelley to send home whoever they please, especially if Kelly, Woo, Terry, Abi Maria, and Varner end up on the wrong side of the vote with a (presumably) 4-3-2 vote split?

 

I know that Kelley has the hidden immunity idol, but rejecting this plan could put suspicion on her as having the idol. Plus, it seemed that Peih-Gee and Kelley genuinely wanted to work with Shirin and Spencer until the challenge loss.

 

I feel like doing this would've set up a clear "4v4" divide, and Kelley/PG both seemingly want to keep their games and allegiances fairly fluid at this point.  Not to mention the fact that while Kelley/PG both probably would've "preferred" to work with Shirin, they weren't too upset over getting rid of her now since she's in her own way almost as much as a needs-to-be-managed ally as Abi-Maria.  Whereas Abi can turn on you on a whim out of emotion, if Shirin's game-odds calculations ever result in your elimination being 50.1% more beneficial to her game, you'd done.

[princelina]

WRT Andrew's story:  my initial thought upon hearing it as a viewer was "OK" - I wasn't really expecting wife to end up dead or diagnosed; I did think it was a melodramatically told, long-drawn-out story designed to play upon their emotions. So when they all cried I merely rolled my eyes.  And as a previous poster said - he must be a great lawyer to get the reactions from these people that he is getting.  I would rate myself, in general, as a non-emotional person who has a decent read on others in the real world.  WRT the Survivor board - I do NOT get what is coming from "next on" scenes, can't read the "tells" based on who gets talking heads, etc.  But I did know that Johnny Fairplay's dead grandma story was a lie from the second it was told.  That's all I have :)

[KimberStormer]

That's right up there with, "He's only it for himself." Um, yeah! Mostly everyone is and the ones who aren't are worst players the game has seen.

 

(terrible Diplomacy flashbacks)

 

I know it's only two episodes in, but wouldn't it be great if this turns out to be "Survivor: Greek Tragedy Edition."  Like the contestants try valiantly to change how they play, to learn and grow, but their tragic flaws are greater than their will!?

 

Yes this is an amazing idea...but the problem is that Probst will be gleefully pointing it out every second and we'll all get sick of it.

 

What truly disturbs me is that I think the editors (i.e., Probst) actually thought that Andrew's story was touching, even in the version that was broadcast. From Dalton Ross's interview at EW with Probst after episode 1:

 

I was expecting Joe and Monica to hook up based on that teaser (I couldn't see any other possible pairings on the two tribes). But, no! It was "I got a boner for a supermodel and we got hitched a few months later!"

 

I'm still unsure how the editors meant for us to interpret this famous scene.  They and Probst are not always in sympathy.  But the fact that Jeff mentions it as a truly romantic tale does point that way.  The fact that they didn't include a single naysayer or even phony spliced in eye-rolling reaction shot also seems to suggest that they think this story is just lovely.  And that is bizarre.  I know, kikaha, everyone there seems to have been into it...but that doesn't mean it wasn't absurd and obnoxious.  If you write it down, without the tears and the dramatic presentation, it's not even a humblebrag, just a plain ol' brag.  Add in the weird histrionics and you've got one unpleasant and mystifying monologue there.  What could they have cut out that would have made it make sense, and why would they cut it if it existed, leaving us all scratching our heads?

So far Andrew is mostly giving a Second Chance to Jonny Fairplay, in my opinion, for how can you hate a guy who so thoroughly demolished that edifice of self-importance?  I miss Erinn and Courtney and Sandra.  Take it away, Erinn, you know what I want to hear:

 

[SlackerInc]

Savage continues to be ridiculous. "Of course Jeremy was crying and needed some alone time. Anyone would cry after my touching story of my non-dead supermodel wife immediately recognizing my overwhelming sexual potency. I told it really well.

 

Bwahahahaha!  There have been a number of amusing recaps of Savage's story, but this one takes the pride for pithiness, accuracy, and hilarity.  Kudos.

 

Now, both of these next quoted bits address something I've found interesting about Survivor fandom the past few years (if this is getting too off topic, please tell me where to take it):

 

Does the show seriously not understand that it's better not to force people into archetypes and that they'd have a much more compelling product if they showed the players' multi-dimensionality? Why do they think we want to watch a show where all the "characters" are walking stereotypes? Because it's easier? Because Survivor has the same audience that Two and a Half Men did? You're killing me, show. 

 

 

How can my personal taste be so far apart -- 100% apart -- from that of the people who voted these assholes to return?   You would think the law of averages alone would net me at least one or two players to cheer on, but there's nobody.  How can that be?

 

I used to think that the people who post online about Survivor were just a more ardent or verbose sampling that was still pretty representative of the overall viewership of the show.  But in recent years I've gotten an increasing sense that this is not so.  Therefore we as "superfans" (or whatever word best describes the more analytical fan) are stuck in kind of a weird trap.  Burnett, Probst, and CBS are able to keep serving this show up to us, twice a year, because it chugs along with good ratings.  But we are not really the ones providing those ratings, beyond a decimal point rounding error.  The people who actually fuel its popularity (who are, sadly, a lot closer to the 2.5 Men crowd IMO) have a different agenda for the show than we do, and they are the ones paying the bills.  So all we can really do is sort of lash ourselves to the hull of the HMS Survivor and helplessly endure getting jerked around, as we hope and pray that it doesn't get pulled too far away from the thing we love.

Ironically, if it were less popular but just barely did well enough to stay on the air (maybe on a lesser network than CBS, which has higher standards for Nielsen ratings than anyone else), Burnett and Probst might be more solicitous of our opinion as we'd be crucial to its staying afloat.  But I think their attitude at this point is that we can all go pound sand as far as they are concerned.  You can see that coming through in some of the dismissive answers Probst gives in interviews.

[BetyBee]

Abi is a shrew and not very bright.  She keeps intruding into conversations and then saying bizarre things.  The oddest was when Spencer and Peih Gee were talking about making a chimney and Abi butted in with some off the wall challenging comment to PG.  Spencer had the funniest WTF look on his face.  I don't know why Abi detests PG so, but I don't really care.  Abi is looney and she can't be gone soon enough for me.

[cooksdelight]

Kelley so far is being smart with not saying anything about having an idol. For the life of me, I will never understand the thinking behind running to tell someone "Lookie what I found!!!" You can't share it. You can't loan it out. It's yours, secures you at least three more days if you use it.

[ghoulina]

I am too old for finding Joe to be a hottie, and never went for the "man bun" type anyway, but Joe has had me since he said (last season):  "After I knew I was going to be on Survivor I googled making a fire and practiced until I could do it."  And last night, whilst making hammocks and catching fish and trying to be invaluable, he mentioned something like "I don't want to be out here and not DO stuff!"  And it was the same vibe I got from him last year - that he is thrilled to be out there and experience every second of it and every thing he can do.

 

This is why I like Joe, even though (like you) he's not really my type. I can't recall anyone being as excited and as grateful about just BEING there in a long time. He has a great attitude about the experience in general, and it's really refreshing. Sometimes people just get right down to strategizing and working people, and forget that they're in a beautiful location and part of a once in a lifetime (okay, twice) opportunity. Joe is good at challenges, he's a hard worker, and he has a great attitude. 

 

Perhaps there’s more to Savage’s story. I am not getting why everyone’s crying.

 

I don't think it was the story itself that was actually moving. I think it was Savage's reaction to talking about his wife. He was just telling a pretty mundane, if not boastful, story - but when he called his wife "his world", got choked up, and took his glasses off, THAT'S when I think people were touched. Not only did it probably remind them of loved ones back home that they were playing for and missing, but it's often touching to see a guy who tends to be a bit more Alpha break down like that and show some real emotion. 

 

I am not sure about the new Kass.

 

Me either. I'm curious to see how she's going to play this season. I actually kind of liked Kass in the VERY beginning of her season. She seemed very bright. But then she went full on "Chaos Kass" and just started making moves for the sake of it, and got really ridiculous. She became pretty darn loathsome. But maybe she realized that was a stupid strategy and is going to play a totally different game this time? We shall see. 

 

Kelley so far is being smart with not saying anything about having an idol. For the life of me, I will never understand the thinking behind running to tell someone "Lookie what I found!!!" You can't share it. You can't loan it out. It's yours, secures you at least three more days if you use it.

 

I agree! I always cringe when someone finds and idol and runs and tells people about it. Even if they're in your so-called alliance. Things flip on a dime out there, why does anyone need to know? I loved Carolyn hoarding her idol to the very last second last season. I hope Kelley does the same.

[ProfCrash]

I think Kass is fine as long as things are going reasonably smoothly. As soon as the water gets stirred, Kass goes a bit nuts. Right now, her tribe is winning and everything is just fine. We are not seeing much out of Bayon and I think that is because they are not doing much. It doesn't seem like they have many of the super schemers over there.

 

Spencer and Shirin should have been on different tribes because they are too similar a player.

[halkatla]

I´ve never been so happy with a vote off this early in the game, Shirin is just the most annoying person I´ve ever seen on Survivor (or I just remember her better than others - I´m not a terribly big fan of the show after the first few seasons so I seldom watch from start to finish). I love Spencer though and hopefully he will pick less horrible people to ally with now. The blonde lady who used to be on the white collar team, joe from the no-collar (yea I did actually watch almost all of that season) and especially Kimmie the vegeterian are my personal favs, also I like some of the old guys and the two Kelly´s seem nice. I favored Kelly on the very first season. The asian guy, Woo? is his name I think, he´s so gorgeous. I can´t remember if I have seen him before, some of the faces look familiar but I don´t really remember them.

[truthaboutluv]

The asian guy, Woo? is his name I think, he´s so gorgeous. I can´t remember if I have seen him before,

 

 

Woo was on the same season as Spencer and came second. 

[Jersey Guy 87]

I may have said so last week, but I really don't like any of the players this season.   Not even one out of 20.  How can my personal taste be so far apart -- 100% apart -- from that of the people who voted these assholes to return?   You would think the law of averages alone would net me at least one or two players to cheer on, but there's nobody.  How can that be?

 

Remember, there were only 32 people to choose from and you had to pick 20 - I didn't cast any votes because there weren't 20 people I wanted to see again and I didn't want to vote for someone I objected to less than someone else.  I don't dislike all of the players this season but there are more I'm not fond of or indifferent to than ones I'm rooting for.

[laurakaye]

IMO, Savage's story wasn't necessarily what he said, but where he was when he said it - standing at the head of the shelter, while all the others were lounging inside.  They were his captive audience, and he was performing his monologue for them.  If he'd been lying in the shelter chilling with one or two others, it wouldn't have come across as smarmy as it did, it would've just been a nice story.  For the life of me, I can't remember too much about his season, but he clearly enjoys being the center of attention.

 

And I don't know if this belongs here, but supposedly there was more to Shirin's exit than we saw - she may have said or done something before getting her torch snuffed?  Can I ask what that was, if anyone knows?  The reactions of a couple of the jury members seems to not jibe with what she said to Spencer on her way out.

[peachmangosteen]

And I don't know if this belongs here, but supposedly there was more to Shirin's exit than we saw - she may have said or done something before getting her torch snuffed?  Can I ask what that was, if anyone knows?  The reactions of a couple of the jury members seems to not jibe with what she said to Spencer on her way out.

 

I believe I read that she said that Terry has the HII. I assume since it wasn't aired that it doesn't really have any affect on anything that happens.

[truthaboutluv]

Was it Rob's zombie season where everyone knew he had the idol and just left him alone the entire game because of it (and because he's Rob)?   I always wonder if someone else could pull that off.

 

 

They didn't know the whole season. He told them when it was down to five, which is the last time he could use it, as a way to stop them from getting any ideas of trying to get him out at that point. And I actually was annoyed they didn't reveal that during the season because I felt doing that fed into the idea that the players were all zombies who just blindly followed along when Ashley, at the reunion, made clear that she did entertain getting rid of Rob.

 

However, she noted that they knew Rob had the idol at that point, knew it was the last time he could use it and rightly assumed he would so it was no point trying to vote with Andrea who was suggesting they team up with her and get rid of Rob because they wouldn't win against him. Rob kept his idol to himself for most of the game.

Edited October 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[seasick]

I just realized that I've been getting the players of Brains/Beauty/Braun mixed up with WA ( the 3 'collars" )

 

I watch every ep. religiously but I don't remember Woo and have no recollection of who won BBB.  I even forgot about that whole theme/season.   People from the earlier seasons seem to stand out more than the later ones...   I