S30.E11: Survivor Russian Roulette

[Dobian]

I honestly don't get why people dislike Caroline.   I don't understand the basis for calling her "smug."  I know she found the idol back on White Collar and I know she flipped on White Collar and/or the Women's Alliance, but that doesn't seem enough to garner so much dislike. I don't hate her, I don't like her, I have no real feelings about her at all - I don't know her. She seems like such a non-entity to me.   I thought last night's episode was the first time she spoke on camera since the merge.  But there seems to be an almost universal dislike of her by the viewers.  What have I forgotten or blocked from my mind? 

 

I liked Carolyn in the beginning and was rooting for her, and even predicting that she would win (and she still could).  But she does give off that "smug" vibe like she's superior and all the others are just pawns in her game.  Maybe she can afford to be that way since she has a HII, and she knows she won't have to use it until it gets down to just her alliance remaining

[BigRedCheese]

All they ever show us of Carolyn, is the smug looks, but I do think there's probably more to her. I thought I saw her give Shirin a sympathetic look when they were talking about all the stuff Will did to her. I hope I read that right, it would be nice to think that somebody like her that doesn't even like Shirin could still see her as a human being and be concerned for her as a human being.

[Way Wes Jr]

Man, Mike’s play is so yo-yo-esque.  The reward challenge was a mess, I’m guessing because he wasn’t willing to switch strategies once he started getting gassed.  But then, he follows it up by playing the bluff about as well as possible during tribal council.

 

The 4+2 alliance, (4+1+1? Is it really fair to link Sierra and Dan together as a pair?,) as a whole responded perfectly to Mike’s bluff - by sticking to the plan.  I can (kind of?) understand why Tyler threw a vote Dan’s way, [if Mike is telling the truth, the Shirin votes are null, there’s one vote for Tyler (Shirin,) on vote for Dan (Tyler’s,) and one vote for either Rodney, Will, Sierra, or Dan.  If Mike votes for Dan, Dan is gone, otherwise there’s a three way vote off.  Maybe he thinks Carolyn will play her HII on him if Mike isn’t bluffing, sending Dan home.?] but I have no clue as why Will voted for Dan.  There are so many questions I hope Rob C. asks Shirin on the exit interview...

 

Sierra, Tyler, and Carolyn all had game-play related confessionals this episode.  If Mike doesn’t make FTC, one of them has to look like they have a strategy, right?

Mike won immunity, so the Pagonging target fell on Shirin.  Really no reason to change the rankings this week.

 

Merica (purple)

 

1. Tyler (1) It’s a little late for you to be shown doing something other than tattlin’, but better than nothing, I guess.

2. Rodney (2) People are starting to make the case that Tyler is a threat, and not you; so that’s a plus.

 

3. Carolyn (3)
4. Will (4)
5. Sierra (5) 

 

6.. Dan (6)  So, while Mike wasn’t able to convince you that you were on the bottom of the Final Six, his TC-play showed you that you were.  [Credit to either Stephen Fishbach or Rob Cesternino.]

 

7. Mike (8)  You won immunity, staving off elimination.  Will you be able to avoid playing your (not anymore) HII next week?

 

OUT Shirin (7)  Mike won immunity, and you couldn’t convince Dan and Sierra that you were a better goat than (whomever they think they have.)

[CletusMusashi]

She never smiles.  She always looks very harsh.  She has that perpetual "my shit don't stank" attitude.  She is self-righteous.  She thinks she is way smarter than she actually is.  I mean, how can you NOT notice a 3 inch long rolled up tube of paper floating in your soda bottle?  She also always act so superior to people she thinks she is above.  Her interactions with Shirin showed a lot of unnecessary disdain.

I agree with all of this, but I'm just not sure how to compare and Tyler. I mean, yeah, She missed the idol clue in the drink... which continues to baffle me. But Tyler actually got to see the clue... and instead of finding the damned thing himself, he arranged for Mike to get it. Carolyn at least did find one, and apparently has no intention of wasting it on Tyler. So betwen the unpleasant two of them, I am tentatively saying that Carolyn has played a better strategic and even physical game, but he's probably ahead of her on the social game. I don't think the jury dislike him as much. But of course if she ends up there against Will and Dan, social game becomes irrelevant. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Zuleikha]

It's because he lies about it after the fact. In Shirin's EW interview she said that Will blamed Hali's (and presumably Joe's) vote on her and claimed he was still voting with the NCs, which must be why Hali thought Shirin had flipped on them.

 

This is the type of thing that's annoying about the editing. That's good game play on Will's part, and that was important good game play because it's part of what kept Jenn/Joe/Hali from knowing who to correctly target as well as why the Hali vote off (which seemed so obvious to use) was actually a surprise. But we don't see it, so it seems like Will's doing absolutely nothing active.

 

To me, it also makes his verbal attack on Shirin that much worse, though, because it emphasizes his irrationality. Will lied to Shirin and her allies before. He didn't happen to be lying in that moment, but there was no reason for Shirin, Jenn, or Mike to know that. He had no actual integrity to be upset about Shirin questioning.

[blackwing]

Damn all of you for continually talking about Sierra's eyebrows every week.  I somehow managed to never notice them before, but this week, with the extreme closeups of her face during the immunity challenge..... YEECH.   Like a blonde caterpillar trying to emerge from the tattooed brown chrysalis.

[Andromeda]

It really irks me that pawing through someone else's stuff is ok. I don't care if it is Dan whose stuff got snooped through- I think a "hands off" bag is something they need to start with.

I want something really loony for Immunity Challenges like "the idol goes to the first person who can name 3 famous Nicaraguans " or "what is the scientific name of the howler monkey?" Endurance gets boring.

They used to have lore-type competitions, a very long time ago. Maybe they discovered the cast is too dumb to learn the lore... The Dans of the world would be at a definite disadvantage (and I would laugh!). I thought it was interesting that there were both male and female immunities, I figure it's because men naturally have more upper-body strength, making the competition inherently unfair otherwise. Not that anything about Survivor is ever "fair."

 

I was really bummed we didn't get to see the schoolyard pick for the reward. No doubt Shireen was last. I wanted to know how they selected captains, and who picked who (was Mike picked early because he's strong, despite him being on the bottom of the totem pole?).

[pamplemousse]

Aside from her smugness and all the crap she talked about other people pre-merge (and how bitter and nasty she was that Shirin and Max were only strategizing with each other, when hello, it's because no one else on WC wanted anything to do with them -- including her -- but god forbid they didn't kiss her ass and beg her to grace their alliance with her presence), I really wasn't a fan of how Carolyn stormed up to Jeff at the end of the auction yelling OH HELL NO and demanded her money back because Mike changed his mind and didn't pay for his letter from home. She comes across as super-entitled to me, like oh of course she'll get her money back, it's not even a question because she's raising her voice and making a stink about it, I bet she behaves the same way towards people in the customer service sector (I can just see her losing her shit at some poor store employee until they agree to give her special snowflake ass a discount for something that went wrong that wasn't even their fault). And I think the real reason she hates Shirin is because Shirin is corporate just like her, but younger and far more successful, and she doesn't understand why Shirin probably has more earning power than she does because Shirin is so socially unaware and talks so much. So yeah, smug, very entitled, self-regarding, and bitterpants, and her only strategic gameplay so far has been to stick with Tattletale Tyler like glue, have a HII, and sit on her hands doing nothing but spouting off a bunch of crap about how smart players should wait to make a move, when really she's just Ms. Smuggy McInertia. Tthat's why I detest Carolyn.

[BigRedCheese]

Yeah, the demanding her money back thing was weird, even weirder, it seems like maybe they were going to give it back too. If people can do that, then couldn't Will have just said, "no thanks Jeff, just give me my money back and I'll bid on something else."

[ljenkins782]

She never smiles.  She always looks very harsh.  She has that perpetual "my shit don't stank" attitude.  She is self-righteous.  She thinks she is way smarter than she actually is.  I mean, how can you NOT notice a 3 inch long rolled up tube of paper floating in your soda bottle?  She also always act so superior to people she thinks she is above.  Her interactions with Shirin showed a lot of unnecessary disdain.

 

I was pulling for Carolyn at the beginning, but the above is pretty much how I feel about her now. Particularly the parts  about her being unnecessarily harsh to people she feels superior to or who have a lower position in the social hierarchy. 

 

She strikes me as that type of person you encounter at work who can play the superficial social political game pretty well, but who's a total bitch if she doesn't perceive you as an important person to schmooze.

 

 ljenkins782, Mike looks hot cause Joe is gone.

 

Ha, fair point, though pretty boys are not my thing. The Mikes of the world are much more my type than the Joes.

 

If next week Will lies about having voted for Dan and tries to put it on Mike, Mike may say he voted for Tyler, and everyone else will say they voted for Shirin, still leaving one vote unaccounted for. If they think Mike is lying and really voted for Dan, then who put the second vote on Tyler? If they believe Will and think he's just mistaken about who Mike voted for, then who put the second vote on Dan? They'll know one of the six other than Tyler voted for either Tyler or Dan, but they won't necessarily know who unless Will admits it. So actually I hope Will does lie because it will make these obnoxious creeps completely paranoid and maybe make them turn on each other earlier than expected, which I would enjoy watching.

 

This should be interesting because I think the numbers are down to the point that Will can't hide anymore.

 

My fear is that thanks to Mike's detailed speech about Shirin being the one to vote Tyler while he voted for someone else, Dan is going to assume Mike was one of the Dan votes and swings even harder to the Rodney side. Given that it's Dan, who can't see past the end of his nose, I'm assuming that is exactly what he will think. 

[pamplemousse]

I wouldn't be surprised if Carolyn would've been against anyone else trying to do take-backs. IMO she comes across so special snowflake that she probably thinks exceptions should be made for her and her only.

[Guest]

I kind of doubt Jeff would've issued refunds on the letters but maybe.  It's not really the same as Will's purchase.  There was nothing new revealed or nothing gained from her holding her letter for 5 seconds.  When you buy a blind item, you get the item, period.  

 

Though since Will's purchase was actually one of the best purchases in the auction, who knows, maybe Jeff would've let him screw himself out of weeks' worth of food with a return.  I do think sometimes he bends things as he goes, based on what'll make better tv.  

[needschocolate]

Yeah, the demanding her money back thing was weird, even weirder, it seems like maybe they were going to give it back too. If people can do that, then couldn't Will have just said, "no thanks Jeff, just give me my money back and I'll bid on something else."

 

Can you imagine how mad Will would have been if he found out when they all got back to camp that he could have returned his "prize" and would have gotten to eat something tasty and/or gotten a letter from home? Of course, he would have found some way that it was Shirin's fault. 

[wonald]

 

Aside from her smugness and all the crap she talked about other people pre-merge (and how bitter and nasty she was that Shirin and Max were only strategizing with each other, when hello, it's because no one else on WC wanted anything to do with them -- including her -- but god forbid they didn't kiss her ass and beg her to grace their alliance with her presence), I really wasn't a fan of how Carolyn stormed up to Jeff at the end of the auction yelling OH HELL NO and demanded her money back because Mike changed his mind and didn't pay for his letter from home. She comes across as super-entitled to me,

 

Cherilyn IS super-entitled. No if, ands, or buts. Jenn revealed on another forum that the woman she complained about in her pregame interviews who kept EVERYBODY waiting for 45 minutes while she straightened her hair for press day photos was Cherilyn. She's an asshole in a season full of assholes. No wonder they all like her.

Edited April 30, 2015 by wonald

[Special K]

 The Mikes of the world are much more my type than the Joes.

 

 

Mike looks good because 1) he's lost weight, not that he was fat, but he was pretty stocky, and you can see his face and musculature better now; 2) he is rocking the "gone native" look -- the beard and mussed hair work for him; 3) he has a great smile. And unlike some others (ahem Carolyn, Tyler) he does smile.

 

He doesn't look anywhere near as handsome in his original CBS profile pic.  I also think he looks his age now (38), whereas in the beginning I thought he was older than that.

[Neerbeena]

 

He doesn't look anywhere near as handsome in his original CBS profile pic.  I also think he looks his age now (38), whereas in the beginning I thought he was older than that.

 

 

Wow, that doesn't even look like the same guy.  

[auchic]

ITA with others on Carolyn's smugness and sense of entitlement being why she is disliked, but what gets me the most is her "I'm waiting for the right time before making a move" attitude, which we've seen from a few players this season. 

 

I just don't understand why people do this.  "Oh, I'm just waiting until we're down to six (or five or three or eight), and then the game really starts!" How is this good gameplay?  The only way it is if everyone is playing this way, and we've already seen that it's not. Mike is not waiting to make moves. Shirin was not waiting to make moves.  All Carolyn's doing is keeping pace, when she should be thinking at least two moves ahead.

[verve]

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw the Survivor picture on the Previously tv homepage. Rodney looked like a scared little boy being propped up on that barrel by a women.

 

In spite of his tough talk and the tough guy image that he has been trying to project, Rodney has really shown himself to be a pathetic competitor. The contrast between image and reality is so stark with Rodney. Mike was the man of that team, the leader, the alpha male. Rodney was merely a weak follower like the other two women. Even though the team lost the reward challenge, I thought Mike put Rodney to shame. It was pathetic.

 

Of course, he later lost the immunity challenge to Mike. That didn't surprise me. He is not as tough as he looks.

[Andromeda]

The Blue Collars turned on Mike because they know he will win.

The Mike hate displayed by Rodney is because Mike out maneuvered him with the Joaquin vote. Rodney didn't like losing his Bro. It really isn't that different from Natalie last season except Natalie is not a raging angry monster so she sucked John in and made him her ally and then chopped off his head.

The Mike hate displayed by Dan is because Dan has to have some justified reason for stabbing his number one ally in the back. Mike was evil when he thought about not taking the letter. Mike ruined the moment when he announced that R,T,W,C were in an alliance during the letter reading time. Mike displayed he had a better grasp of the game the Dan. Therefore Mike is an awful human being and Dan is justified in hating Mike and stabbing him in the back.

 

Exactly. So often they figure out a reason to hate someone they previously liked, to justify it to themselves. I see it every season -- in pretty much every reality show that relies on personal relationships, too.

[Haleth]

 He doesn't look anywhere near as handsome in his original CBS profile pic.  I also think he looks his age now (38), whereas in the beginning I thought he was older than that.

Huh. From his profile it seems Mike was molested, bullied, and grew up without a father, Dan.

[meep.meep]

Mike looks good because 1) he's lost weight, not that he was fat, but he was pretty stocky, and you can see his face and musculature better now; 2) he is rocking the "gone native" look -- the beard and mussed hair work for him; 3) he has a great smile. And unlike some others (ahem Carolyn, Tyler) he does smile.

 

He doesn't look anywhere near as handsome in his original CBS profile pic.  I also think he looks his age now (38), whereas in the beginning I thought he was older than that.

 

I think he looks good now, much better than when they started.  Somehow his voice is growing on me.

 

But, from his profile:  "In my personal life, I have had to overcome being molested and bullied when I was young and not having a father."

And he sat silent while Dan prattled on about being adopted!

 

I've really liked aspects of his game play, especially the " prove your with me by voting this way" tactic.  This tribal was genius - he let them know he has an idol, and then drove a wedge of doubt straight through the remaining players.

[pamplemousse]

Huh. From his profile it seems Mike was molested, bullied, and grew up without a father, Dan.

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. So I guess according to the bully logic that seems to be dominating this season, does this mean Mike is just playing the victim like Shirin? Why would he share information like this with the public, after all he doesn't know us, I guess he's just trying to manipulate everyone to get sympathy points. Can I safely assume that drama queen Mike, similar to drama queen Shirin, will eventually have this information thrown back in his face and used against him in personal attacks? And rightly so, since he's the one putting the info out there and playing the victim? Yeah, right, I'm so sure, whatever.

Edited April 30, 2015 by pamplemousse

[needschocolate]

Huh. From his profile it seems Mike was molested, bullied, and grew up without a father, Dan.

 

Meanwhile, according to Dan's bio, Dan hero is his father.  Too bad he isn't close to his family - huh?.

 

Dan's bio is quite laughable, based on what we have seen of him on the show.  It is too much to quote here, but I especially liked this part --

 

Obviously, any challenge that involves a lot of running will not be in my “wheelhouse,” but anything involving gross food eating, strength, swimming, puzzles or balance, I’ll be in it to the end. As for the social game, I am a world class “schmooze” artist. I can charm my way out of almost anything.

 

I didn't know this before, but, apparently, the abbreviation for "delusional" is "Dan"

[cooksdelight]

One of the many questions they get asked for their profile is to tell something that no one knows about them, to relate something that had a huge impact on their life good or bad. I am sure production picks and chooses what to put online about these people and encourages them to "open up" once they are out there. And we've seen what happens when a few do.

[Haleth]

Here is the whole quote:

Why Will You Be the Sole SURVIVOR: My life is constantly changing. At work, I must adapt to what the oil well is doing and sometimes drastic measures need to be taken. In my personal life, I have had to overcome being molested and bullied when I was young and not having a father. Learning to be influenced by the right people has been no easy chore. I have grown into my own skin - I know who I am and what I am about. My faith has made me whole, my family and friends have me strong, and my experiences have made me adapt. Let’s get it on!!!!

 

Hardly sounds like someone playing the victim or looking for sympathy.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Haleth

[RedheadZombie]

Having heard Shirin confirm on the ponderosa video that she's Persian, I really wonder if that's why Will hated her so much.  There are plenty of Americans whose knee-jerk response to middle-Easterners is hatred (even those born and raised in this country), and if Will suspected that she's Muslim (I have no idea if she is), I could see him hating her for it.

[CraftyHazel]

Is there actually a Probst interview out there stating that we will like the winner this year? Can anybody point me to it, if so? Because I truly cannot believe that ANYBODY but Mike (of the remaining players) could be considered a likable winner. Well, maybe Tyler; but I'm a little twisted that way...I actually like the sneaky snake.

If anyone had told me a few weeks ago that I'd be actively rooting for Mike, of all people, I'd have laughed in their face! But he's so much better than every other execrable person out there that I find myself cheering him on.

I'd still prefer Joe and Hali and even Jenn (shudder) over Mike, but at this point, he and (sorry) Tyler are my only remaining hope.

[Sentient Meat]

Man, so much hate based on conjecture about what people might be like without any concrete proof.  Why not stick to just disliking players based on the actual evidence?   After all, there's plenty enough to be found...

Edited April 30, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[Miss Scarlet]

I've stuck through Survivor during some pretty low points - Heidik, Colton, both Hantzes, etc. But I skipped this episode and am definitely out for the rest of the season. I thought I might jump back in if it looked like the assholes were getting voted off, but I can't. I can't stomach a whole episode of these 7 people next week. I would be too horrified throughout the whole thing. My blood is boiling just reading these posts. I watched Shirin's Ponderosa video and was disgusted to see the reaction at TC from the other players after she was voted off. And no, I don't believe they acted that way out of "relief" that their plans hadn't been ruined. They were being the bullies they've been throughout the whole season.

 

I hope Mike wins it all, but in any other season Mike would be my least favorite. I'm sorry, but he clearly has issues with women. They might not be as bad as Dan's or Rodney's but they're there. And the whole "women just want apologies and to be right" can quickly devolve into "women are inferior to men".

 

I'm glad to hear that Jeff called out Dan's bullshit at TC. What did Probst say to him? Also, was Dan's fake apology to Shirin just a play for her jury vote later on? Even that seems like too game savvy a move for Dan.

 

It seems like the rest of the season might play out with Dan getting Sierra and flipping back to Mike (which would be hilarious in light of his "flippers never win!" crap). That alliance would then have the extra vote and an idol. They could run the rest of the game. Then at final TC I expect Sierra to get no air time and be cut out of all the camera shots, Dan to get totally eviscerated by the jury as the worst person and player to ever be on the show and Mike to win unanimously. That's the only way Probst's saying the winner is "likeable" and that this is amazing season makes sense at all (though I still wouldn't agree with him on either of those

Edited April 30, 2015 by wudpixie

[ihartcoffee]

Mike looks good because 1) he's lost weight, not that he was fat, but he was pretty stocky, and you can see his face and musculature better now; 2) he is rocking the "gone native" look -- the beard and mussed hair work for him; 3) he has a great smile. And unlike some others (ahem Carolyn, Tyler) he does smile.

 

He doesn't look anywhere near as handsome in his original CBS profile pic.  I also think he looks his age now (38), whereas in the beginning I thought he was older than that.

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks he's looking better.  His voice would get tiring.  

 

This cast.... I'm having trouble finding someone worthy of rooting for. 

[escatefromny]

Is there actually a Probst interview out there stating that we will like the winner this year? Can anybody point me to it, if so? Because I truly cannot believe that ANYBODY but Mike (of the remaining players) could be considered a likable winner. Well, maybe Tyler; but I'm a little twisted that way...I actually like the sneaky snake.

 

Here is the link to one of the articles where Jeff rhapsodizes about the Season 30 winner:

 

http://parade.com/377745/joshwigler/jeff-probst-digs-deep-into-survivor-worlds-apart-the-30th-season-of-the-hit-reality-series/

 

Here is the text:

 

You listed your Top Ten Survivor Winners of All Time. Obviously, it’s way too early for you to be specific, but where do you think this season’s winner will ultimately fit in the mix? When the dust settles on Worlds Apart, what kind of conversation are we having about the winner?

 

Probst:  I think you’re right, that it’s with an asterisk — we have to see how it all plays out — but it would not surprise me if the winner of Season 30 became one of the favorite winners of all time. I do think when this season is over, the audience will feel that whoever has won has absolutely earned it, and this is a very good season of Survivor played very hard by very good players. That’s why I like this group. They play. There is no monkeying around. There won’t be anyone saying, “Well, there wasn’t really any strategy this year…” No. There’s strategy from the get go.

 

[Me:  Shut up Probst!]

[Zuleikha]

That’s why I like this group. They play. There is no monkeying around. There won’t be anyone saying, “Well, there wasn’t really any strategy this year…” No. There’s strategy from the get go.

 

That just does not match the Survivor I'm seeing. I will give Probst this in that it does seem like everyone is thinking strategically and making what they think are the best choices for them (albeit, not always reading the room correctly... DAN!). But it's making for non-telegenic play in which most people seem to be hanging back and riding their alliance.

[scowl]

Here is the whole quote:

Hardly sounds like someone playing the victim or looking for sympathy.

That may have been Dan's point. I and some others believe he was saying that bad stuff happens to lots of people but good people like him (and I guess Mike) recover and move on, while losers like Shirin just "play the victim" for the rest of their lives.

 

Probst attempted to differentiate growing up in an abusive family from being adopted but Dan didn't understand the comparison therefore he ignored it.

[peachmangosteen]

My guess is that everyone except Dan knows that Dan is the low man on that six-person totem pole. I'm hoping they show a lot of the fallout from this tribal next week because I'd like to find out why Will voted for Dan, as well as why no one else in Tyler's core alliance tried to protect him by voting for someone other than Shirin.

 

I think Will and Tyler just believed Mike's bluff and voted accordingly. Dan, Sierra, Rodney, and Carolyn decided to call Mike's bluff and voted the way they originally intended to. But it is interesting to me that Carolyn decided to call Mike's bluff there. She could've lost Tyler. It makes me wonder if Carolyn has somewhat replaced Tyler with Will/Rodney or at the very least has just stopped relying on Tyler to be her #1 ally.

 

Apparently a certain group of them (Carolyn, Dan and Mike, at the least) went into the Auction with a pre-arranged agreement to save up all their money for the "advantage prize" and then allow the random chance of the draw determines who got it (and, most importantly, depriving the remaining NC+Shirin alliance of getting it).

 

See, I didn't get that it was pre-arranged from beforehand for only those 3 to go for the advantage and for them to all just agree to bid all their money to get it, but duh that makes so much sense and makes Mike's play there even more stupid.

 

Excellent point!  For that matter, both Tyler and Mike have the clues to this as yet undiscovered idol - why on earth would they both not be looking for it? 

 

I think maybe they just assume that there was only one idol and not a leftover BC idol and a merged idol. Which they may very well be right about. There may not be another idol out there at all.

 

I agree with all of this, but I'm just not sure how to compare and Tyler. I mean, yeah, She missed the idol clue in the drink... which continues to baffle me. But Tyler actually got to see the clue... and instead of finding the damned thing himself, he arranged for Mike to get it. Carolyn at least did find one, and apparently has no intention of wasting it on Tyler. So betwen the unpleasant two of them, I am tentatively saying that Carolyn has played a better strategic and even physical game, but he's probably ahead of her on the social game. I don't think the jury dislike him as much. But of course if she ends up there against Will and Dan, social game becomes irrelevant. 

 

I personally think Carolyn is playing a better game than Tyler or at the very least the exact same game as him. But Tyler's a man so he gets more credit for it. They've both made huge blunders (Carolyn not noticing the clue, Tyler giving Mike the whole clue), they've both won an IC (Carolyn has actually own 2 I think, right?), and they've both been able to socially make an impression (Carolyn with Will/Rodney and Tyler with the NCs). And IMO Carolyn is the reason Tyler is even in the majority alliance now. Initially Rodney's 4 was himself, Will, Carolyn, and Kelly. Tyler wasn't in on it. But I guess when Kelly got booted Carolyn brought Tyler in. 

 

Huh. From his profile it seems Mike was molested, bullied, and grew up without a father, Dan.

 

This makes Rodney and Joaquin laughing about Mike being celibate even grosser than it was already. And it also explains why Mike and Shirin got so close and why Mike would want to help her during the Will attack.

Edited April 30, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Eggman]

Even with his HII, Mike is toast - or not.  He has 4 sympathetic jurors.  If he loses an IC, he's gone.   If he doesn't, then he wins.

 

Everyone that shared the island with Shirin said she was almost intolerably annoying in multiple talking heads.  I'm inclined to defer to their experience.

 

I'm guessing Rodney thinks he can put all the blue collars on the jury and then, at FTC, argue that they should vote for him because, blue collar!    I don't think that will work.  It'll be Rodney, Will, and the winner.

[Miss Scarlet]

I agree with everyone about Carolyn's smugness and that she just seems unnecessarily mean. I remember after the swap when the NC enjoyed that reward they won she said something like "and we even tolerated Shirin on the reward". It was just completely unnecessary and low. And after she was left out of Shirin and Max's strategy sessions she basically acted as though they were the two most vile and annoying people on the planet. It was not a proportionate response to what Max and Shirin had done.

 

I also think her closeness with Rodney and Joaquin doesn't reflect well on her and I read some of Max's interviews where he talked about how Carolyn was totally fine with Joaquin directing sexist comments towards Shirin. I don't care how much she dislikes Shirin. Supporting sexist comments is not okay. I was rooting for at the beginning of the season, but once I read those things I was off the Carolyn train. 

[Wings]

That may have been Dan's point. I and some others believe he was saying that bad stuff happens to lots of people but good people like him (and I guess Mike) recover and move on, while losers like Shirin just "play the victim" for the rest of their lives.

 

Probst attempted to differentiate growing up in an abusive family from being adopted but Dan didn't understand the comparison therefore he ignored it.

 

 

Oh Dan understood.  He did not want to ruin his passive aggressive slam on Shirin.  Jeff was derailing his ridiculous analogy and wanted none of that!

[Alapaki]

See, I didn't get that it was pre-arranged from beforehand for only those 3 to go for the advantage and for them to all just agree to bid all their money to get it, but duh that makes so much sense and makes Mike's play there even more stupid.

 

 

Yeah.  We didn't see a formal agreement made.  But at one point early on Jeff even asked if they were just holding out for the advantage-prize and they all said, pretty much, "of course we are."  None of them looked surprised or threatened by the others' response, so I think it was at least an "understanding".

 

Then, when the Letters came up and the alliance started whining that they couldn't get their letters because they were saving their money, I think it was Jenn who rolled her eyes and basically said "oh, for crying out loud, just all bid the same amount and you'll all get your letters and still be tied for the advantage clue, you dummies."

[hyukx3]

Tyler did a good job purposely losing the IC again, but there's a target on his back now. heeheehee

[lilabennet]

I haven't finished the episode or read the rest of the thread yet, but I just wanted to start by saying that I hope Dan just burned last night as he was watching the show and heard the comments about him from Tyler.

[Miss Scarlet]

From Probst's weekly Q&A over at EW:

 

 

In Will’s case, I am curious if, upon reflection he will choose to publicly apologize to Shirin at the live Reunion show. With Rodney, I hope to talk to his mom to hear her take on her son. I expect that she will help us better understand where he is coming from and then his story will probably make more sense.

 

Oh good grief. He's going to talk to Rodney's mom. Okay, so I am definitely not watching the reunion show.

 

And I don't think Jeff should be asking/asked any questions about sexism (unless it's to call him out on his own sexism). I think the show would be a lot less sexist if he wasn't the host or a producer.

Edited May 1, 2015 by wudpixie

[cooksdelight]

Maybe Probst hasn't seen the final edited versions we're seeing on TV. Seriously, the guy's nuts.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

I hate Mike so much that I'll take a Rodney win over him right now. Seriously. Oh, it's easy to think you're the man and running things once you got Joe out of the game. He was a straight 2nd place bitch when Joe was housing the individual immunities. Clown.

[Lantern7]

Late thought . . . was it just me, or was Probst too into Rodney during the immunity challenge? As bad as Dan's yammering was, Probst just kept at it, encouraging Rod to buckle down. How is Probst not embarrassed by his flagrant favoritism?

[cooksdelight]

Because he's an ass?

[Miss Scarlet]

Probst should be removed from hosting until he takes several gender studies courses and goes to therapy.

[kikaha]

Having heard Shirin confirm on the ponderosa video that she's Persian, I really wonder if that's why Will hated her so much.  There are plenty of Americans whose knee-jerk response to middle-Easterners is hatred (even those born and raised in this country), and if Will suspected that she's Muslim (I have no idea if she is), I could see him hating her for it.

 

RZ: I'm pretty sure you're right on both counts, i.e. I think Shirin is Muslim and that is the reason Will the Christian hates here and says she has no soul.  She inferred she is a Muslim on one of the interviews. 

 

Carolyn is playing real well.  Like Tyler, she's positioned herself extremely well.  She's also real good at challenges.  Yes, she's smug, but she's not the first person on Survivor to have that attitude, including Sophie.  I don't think Mama C wins this year, but she is one of the top players of the season in my book. 

[Guest]

Having heard Shirin confirm on the ponderosa video that she's Persian, I really wonder if that's why Will hated her so much.  There are plenty of Americans whose knee-jerk response to middle-Easterners is hatred (even those born and raised in this country), and if Will suspected that she's Muslim (I have no idea if she is), I could see him hating her for it.

Is it normal for Iranians to refer to themselves as Persian?  It hasn't been called Persia for 80 years.  

 

Will seemed to hate Shirin for something much more personal than her religion or ethnic heritage, though I'm sure those can weigh in a lot.  

 

 

Here is the link to one of the articles where Jeff rhapsodizes about the Season 30 winner:

 

http://parade.com/377745/joshwigler/jeff-probst-digs-deep-into-survivor-worlds-apart-the-30th-season-of-the-hit-reality-series/

 

Here is the text:

 

You listed your Top Ten Survivor Winners of All Time. Obviously, it’s way too early for you to be specific, but where do you think this season’s winner will ultimately fit in the mix? When the dust settles on Worlds Apart, what kind of conversation are we having about the winner?

 

Probst:  I think you’re right, that it’s with an asterisk — we have to see how it all plays out — but it would not surprise me if the winner of Season 30 became one of the favorite winners of all time. I do think when this season is over, the audience will feel that whoever has won has absolutely earned it, and this is a very good season of Survivor played very hard by very good players. That’s why I like this group. They play. There is no monkeying around. There won’t be anyone saying, “Well, there wasn’t really any strategy this year…” No. There’s strategy from the get go.

 

[Me:  Shut up Probst!]

Does Jeff know the winners or does he remain in the dark until it's revealed?  

 

I actually like Jeff.  I don't think he's an asshole or a bad host.  He's explained his interest in alpha male game play to my satisfaction even.  He's definitely grown on me over the years.  I know it's not fashionable to say this here, but I think he's twice the host Phil Keoghan is.  He's totally into Survivor and I think he's a part of its success.  

[Zuleikha]

Is it normal for Iranians to refer to themselves as Persian?

 

Yes, it's normal. I've never known anyone from Iran to refer to themselves as Iranian. 

[enlightenedbum]

The ethnicity is still usually Persian, in my experience.

 

And that Probst quote is ridiculous.