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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

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2 hours ago, rue721 said:

Yes, I agree completely.

Also, for Jana and Anna and probably many/all of the boys, they probably pay for virtually everything by credit or debit card with the statements going to JB, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he combs through those charges to make sure they’re “appropriate.”

This is the family that claimed their adult children requested the parents use “covenant eyes” for their internet usage and insists on “accountability partners” to accompany adults to hotbeds of lechery like the grocery store. I am sure that all purchases made with JB’s money and/or by someone JB considers under his control are all subject to monitoring and inspection, based on JB’s whims.

Involuntary cackle for "hotbeds of lechery like the grocery store." 

 

Edited by Heathen
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3 hours ago, rue721 said:

Yes, I agree completely.

Also, for Jana and Anna and probably many/all of the boys, they probably pay for virtually everything by credit or debit card with the statements going to JB, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he combs through those charges to make sure they’re “appropriate.”

This is the family that claimed their adult children requested the parents use “covenant eyes” for their internet usage and insists on “accountability partners” to accompany adults to hotbeds of lechery like the grocery store. I am sure that all purchases made with JB’s money and/or by someone JB considers under his control are all subject to monitoring and inspection, based on JB’s whims.

Wow what grocery store does JB shop at? 

Edited by andromeda331
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Well, a lot of the kids start off blonde when young and then grow up to have darker hair. 

I've always felt that Joe and Jeremiah looked the most like JB, and James looks like Amy, but I cannot figure out for the life of me which kids resemble Michelle the most. Right now, I think I would have to say Jill resembles young Michelle the most.

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33 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Well, a lot of the kids start off blonde when young and then grow up to have darker hair. 

I've always felt that Joe and Jeremiah looked the most like JB, and James looks like Amy, but I cannot figure out for the life of me which kids resemble Michelle the most. Right now, I think I would have to say Jill resembles young Michelle the most.

 

30 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Josie definitely.

Yes Josie certainly looks like a young Michelle. 

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I've seen other young-Michelle pictures that definitely show the Josie resemblance. And Jinger. But this particular picture, I'm seeing Joy.

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December 30 was the last time there were posts on the family Instagram, and Facebook. Very odd in itself, but even more so since a birthday wasn’t acknowledged.

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2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

December 30 was the last time there were posts on the family Instagram, and Facebook. Very odd in itself, but even more so since a birthday wasn’t acknowledged.

COVID. Maybe.

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Yes, I too thought it quite odd that the family didn't post birthday wishes for Jana and John David..just Abbie for JD and Jill for both of them. Not a new post since 12/30 and some other birthday in the family. Do you all really think that they are sick with Covid? Since there haven't been ANY posts, I think many of them may be sick. Hopefully, no one is in the hospital on a ventilator. I don't with that on anyone.

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20 hours ago, ginger90 said:

December 30 was the last time there were posts on the family Instagram, and Facebook. Very odd in itself, but even more so since a birthday wasn’t acknowledged.

18 hours ago, JoanArc said:

COVID. Maybe.

13 hours ago, floridamom said:

Yes, I too thought it quite odd that the family didn't post birthday wishes for Jana and John David..just Abbie for JD and Jill for both of them. Not a new post since 12/30 and some other birthday in the family. Do you all really think that they are sick with Covid? Since there haven't been ANY posts, I think many of them may be sick. Hopefully, no one is in the hospital on a ventilator. I don't with that on anyone.

Its not like they've been careful. Michelle and Jordyn traveled to a hot spot in mid December, the entire Duggar crew, plus inlaw families, celebrated Christmas together and it looked like a bunch of non relatives celebrated NYE with them.

I'd be more surprised if they didn't have covid.

 

 

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On 1/16/2021 at 1:49 PM, madpsych78 said:

Well, a lot of the kids start off blonde when young and then grow up to have darker hair. 

I've always felt that Joe and Jeremiah looked the most like JB, and James looks like Amy, but I cannot figure out for the life of me which kids resemble Michelle the most. Right now, I think I would have to say Jill resembles young Michelle the most.

Jinger and Josie 

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Commenting on the post made in the Claritin thread about how Michelle wears the pants, is the one who introduced Gothard, etc., while JB just follows her wishes. While I don't disagree with that as a whole, I'm just wondering how Derick's allegations fit into all of this. It appears that Derick's frustrations are directed more at Boob rather than Michelle.

Or is it that Michelle is more responsible for the Gothard following and Boob is more responsible for the finances?

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32 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Commenting on the post made in the Claritin thread about how Michelle wears the pants, is the one who introduced Gothard, etc., while JB just follows her wishes. While I don't disagree with that as a whole, I'm just wondering how Derick's allegations fit into all of this. It appears that Derick's frustrations are directed more at Boob rather than Michelle.

Or is it that Michelle is more responsible for the Gothard following and Boob is more responsible for the finances?

I think it is more that Derick, like others of his conservative religious beliefs, feels that the man is the ultimate head of the household even if all evidence points to Michelle being the boss.  He would never publicly attack a godly woman like Michelle verbally or in writing, this is a 'man to man' situation. It would be like hitting a girl.  Just as Derick seemingly handled the whole thing on Jill's behalf; he would approach JB to handle it even if he knew Michelle was the real boss.

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Curious about Michelle leading JB to Gothardism...admittedly I don't know much at all about Michelle's younger days but wasn't she the hot cheerleader who mowed the lawn in a bikini?  How did she get from there to joining a religion where her duty was to remain pregnant for most of her adult life?  Was it for attention?  Because she couldn't have known in the beginning that her womb was going to end up like a Motel 8 where one human vacates and another quickly moves in.  Sorry, this is probably common knowledge but I always assumed JB got Michelle into their religion, not the other way around.

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2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Commenting on the post made in the Claritin thread about how Michelle wears the pants, is the one who introduced Gothard, etc., while JB just follows her wishes. While I don't disagree with that as a whole, I'm just wondering how Derick's allegations fit into all of this. It appears that Derick's frustrations are directed more at Boob rather than Michelle.

Or is it that Michelle is more responsible for the Gothard following and Boob is more responsible for the finances?

IMO the whole Gothard scheme is about control, which Boob has absolutely with the total support of his mate.  I do believe Boob is the one with complete control, with Michelle able to speak up to advocate for her requests as she wishes and be heard.    

ETA  As far as the speculation about the estate planning that will be set up in Michelle's favor to keep her from a future as indentured laundress, my bet is that Boob is of the breed that cannot accept his own mortality and therefore will not undertake estate planning.   Would not be surprised one bit if Michelle has been led to believe Boob has everything set up and there isn't a thing in the world to concern herself with.

Their pool of beneficiaries is simply too large (and growing in size themselves) for financial pressures and plain and simple greed not to create friction.   Ironically there's only one offspring I could name right now as being very unlikely not to come with hand outstretched.   I'm uncertain about all of the others based on the personalities I know by name.  Like the example set by Michelle, there are several I would need help both naming and recalling anything specifically significant about, so I have no idea whether any of those would seek a share of the spoils.

Edited by Tikichick
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I think that Michelle took naturally to having babies (if not to, you know, actually then rearing the children the babies became), and AFAIK Gothard doesn't necessarily mandate large families, although as noted ILBP/ATI and Gothard's teachings are all about control. They were apparently of huge appeal for parents back in the 80's and 90's who feared "losing" their children to changing and strong cultural influences that clashed with the parents' own backgrounds and values. 

I'm no expert but I have read several blog posts about the Gothard and IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) world, and I believe there are lots of small families. There may be a big intersection of the Quiverfull teachings with the Gothard/IFB doctrines, but IMO they aren't necessarily 100% aligned. Michelle got a high from pregnancy and childbirth and found cover for that in the Biblical teachings in certain circles of fundamental Christianity, and Boob found justification for his control freak tendencies in Gothard/ATI/IBLP. And they all lived prosperously ever after thanks to TLC.

I have read (I think there are regulars here who know for sure) that JB's real estate and business holdings are  - mostly if not entirely - in a trust, that will ensure that if he predeceases her, Michelle will take them over, or vice versa if she goes first. I doubt that there will be any divvying up of property and cash on the death of the first Duggar parent. Assuming Michelle survives JB, she may hand control of day to to day management of those assets and the RE biz to her favorite child, Josh. Which could be interesting. Heh. Or by the time JB kicks the bucket, another of the sons may have carved out some experience in the real estate biz and that guy may manage things. Don't one or two of them have RE licenses by now?

Edited by Jeeves · Reason: coherence
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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Curious about Michelle leading JB to Gothardism...admittedly I don't know much at all about Michelle's younger days but wasn't she the hot cheerleader who mowed the lawn in a bikini?  How did she get from there to joining a religion where her duty was to remain pregnant for most of her adult life?  Was it for attention?  Because she couldn't have known in the beginning that her womb was going to end up like a Motel 8 where one human vacates and another quickly moves in.  Sorry, this is probably common knowledge but I always assumed JB got Michelle into their religion, not the other way around.

I think Michelle's road into Fundyism and her Motel 8 Womb (without a view) happened due to different circumstances. I believe she is very reactive and when anything didn't go quite right she dug deeper into religion. She found comfort in following rules, as well as having her husband follow rules. She found comfort in predictability amidst the chaos. She probably found comfort in leaning on Jesus.

I also think they was a lot of secondary gain, including attention, in addition to having the choice to be passive in regard to responsibility, without actually giving up control.

From watching interviews, specials, videos of JB's & Michelle's presentations and the show from the beginning, it doesn't take long to connect the dots and figure it out. It was also very obvious that Michelle was in charge, as JB often fumbled in speaking and looked to Michelle, to spout out a Bible verse or two, to fill in the blanks. Obviously, JB had a fair amount of secondary gain too. He had sex when he wanted it and had a wife who told anyone who would listen that he was in charge and closest to God, etc. But without Michelle choosing to follow Gothard and running the family, JB would have had none of that.

As I mentioned in my other posts, my opinion that JB isn't a control freak, is not a popular one. But its definitely how it played out, over the years, to me.

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The Hope we Hold instagram posted snippets of the podcast with Michelle about two weeks ago. My guess is that Michelle recorded it when she was in CA with Jordyn. Very interesting indeed that Michelle is just now getting to posting about it now.

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I think it’s interesting the first post in a while, includes the breakout stars podcast.

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2 hours ago, floridamom said:

That Jinger/Michelle post is old news. They still are on radio silence. I wonder what's up.

It’s old news yes, but it was posted 20 hours ago as of now, and is the first post since December 30.

It’s strange.

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Well, I guess that confirms that Mechelle isn't on a vent. I wonder if they'll ever fess up to a Covid outbreak in their household.

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On 1/18/2021 at 12:03 PM, Jeeves said:

I think that Michelle took naturally to having babies (if not to, you know, actually then rearing the children the babies became), and AFAIK Gothard doesn't necessarily mandate large families, although as noted ILBP/ATI and Gothard's teachings are all about control. They were apparently of huge appeal for parents back in the 80's and 90's who feared "losing" their children to changing and strong cultural influences that clashed with the parents' own backgrounds and values. 

I'm no expert but I have read several blog posts about the Gothard and IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) world, and I believe there are lots of small families. There may be a big intersection of the Quiverfull teachings with the Gothard/IFB doctrines, but IMO they aren't necessarily 100% aligned. Michelle got a high from pregnancy and childbirth and found cover for that in the Biblical teachings in certain circles of fundamental Christianity, and Boob found justification for his control freak tendencies in Gothard/ATI/IBLP. And they all lived prosperously ever after thanks to TLC.

I have read (I think there are regulars here who know for sure) that JB's real estate and business holdings are  - mostly if not entirely - in a trust, that will ensure that if he predeceases her, Michelle will take them over, or vice versa if she goes first. I doubt that there will be any divvying up of property and cash on the death of the first Duggar parent. Assuming Michelle survives JB, she may hand control of day to to day management of those assets and the RE biz to her favorite child, Josh. Which could be interesting. Heh. Or by the time JB kicks the bucket, another of the sons may have carved out some experience in the real estate biz and that guy may manage things. Don't one or two of them have RE licenses by now?

Gothard absolutely encouraged large families. He was anti-birth control. He told mothers to stop breast feeding at six months to increase the chances of a new pregnancy. He encouraged people who had had vasectomies to get them reversed.

Now depending on the parents joined IBLP, they may not have been able to have large family naturally. Even in the most intrusive cults, it's hard to force to have more kids. 

Fundamentalism is all about control. You don't become and stay fundie if you don't have desire to control others.  JB and Michelle are certainly control freaks. 

Edited by Temperance
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1 hour ago, Temperance said:

Gothard absolutely encouraged large families. He was anti-birth control. He told mothers to stop breast feeding at six months to increase the chances of a new pregnancy. He encouraged people who had had vasectomies to get them reversed.

Now depending on the parents joined IBLP, they may not have been able to have large family naturally. Even in the most intrusive cults, it's hard to force to have more kids. 

Fundamentalism is all about control. You don't become and stay fundie if you don't have desire to control others.  JB and Michelle are certainly control freaks. 

Fundamentalism, or Gothardism, certainly are interesting dynamics.  However, I see it more as JB & M being controlled. Parents have to parent, at least to some degree, no matter their religion and Gothard gave them a guidebook to parent by. I see the Duggar parents' rigid control of their kids as an extension of Gothard's control of them, which includes fear of consequences. 

Gothard's main selling pitch was keeping families whole and wholesome. If JB & M "protected" their children from the 'dangers' of mainstream living, the kids would grow into upstanding Christians ready to serve Jesus. The consequences of not doing this is losing your kids to sex, drugs and rock and roll and even worse, a shitty place in heaven or actually going to hell instead, and failures as parents.

There were benefits of following Gothard's parenting rules. Requiring instant obedience removed the hard, sometimes confusing and often emotional, responsibility of actually parenting. Using Jesus as a reason for every action or thought, means the parents are never the bad guys. And using the Bible and prayer to solve every problem directed the kids to parent themselves. So, for someone like Michelle, who confessed to not having a heart for children, following Gothard actually made parenting easier for her.

IMO, without Gothard controlling JB & M, they likely would not have 'achieved' even JillR's level of Fundamentalism. They would have been a non-quiverfull (sorry Howlers and Lost Girls), pants wearing, mainstream living, Christian family.

 

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From observation, and not having watched a lot of shows, I got the impression that JB guilted Michelle into their cult.  I'm sure it pissed him off that Michelle 'had a lot of baggage' from having had previous boyfriends.  

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4 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I'm sure it pissed him off that Michelle 'had a lot of baggage' from having had previous boyfriends.  

Oh for sure!  You can tell it really irriates him that he can't honestly say that they were both each other's first true loves.  I have a feeling there is a lot more to MEchelle's "baggage" story.

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On Reddit, a woman talk about her Christian boyfriend being jealous of her rapist. So I can totally see JB being jealous/annoyed that Michelle willingly kissed/hugged/held hands with other boys. I think these assholes want to be the only ones to have "touched'' their women. It's gross.

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4 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

On Reddit, a woman talk about her Christian boyfriend being jealous of her rapist. 

What the actual fuck? I hope she dropped him like a hot potato.

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

What the actual fuck? I hope she dropped him like a hot potato.

She's not with him anymore. That comment came from a thread was about a TikTok video that explains why the Duggars didn't seem to understand why people were so upset about the Josh stuff. It's only a minute long and bring some interesting points. 

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8 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

From observation, and not having watched a lot of shows, I got the impression that JB guilted Michelle into their cult.  I'm sure it pissed him off that Michelle 'had a lot of baggage' from having had previous boyfriends.  

I do think JB doesn’t like that Michelle had other boyfriends before him, but I think Michelle 100% guided him into Gothardism and they agreed to go along with it TOGETHER. I think they agreed to be quiver-full together.
 

After delivering Jana/JD post miscarriage, Michelle probably felt “justified” in following this new practice. Now Michelle had no idea that they were going to be as fertile as they were, and she’s one of those women who really enjoyed the the biochemical effects of pregnancy. Add in the attention and righteousness they kept going down the path. 
 

Now if Michelle had Jill, and commented that she was absolutely done with kids- JB would’ve accepted that. I think keeping Michelle happy is his #1, following the lifestyle is #2. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

do think JB doesn’t like that Michelle had other boyfriends before him, but I think Michelle 100% guided him into Gothardism and they agreed to go along with it TOGETHER. I think they agreed to be quiver-full together.

 They called this praying for a heart for children. 

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do think JB doesn’t like that Michelle had other boyfriends before him, but I think Michelle 100% guided him into Gothardism and they agreed to go along with it TOGETHER. I think they agreed to be quiver-full together.
 

After delivering Jana/JD post miscarriage, Michelle probably felt “justified” in following this new practice. Now Michelle had no idea that they were going to be as fertile as they were, and she’s one of those women who really enjoyed the the biochemical effects of pregnancy. Add in the attention and righteousness they kept going down the path. 
 

Now if Michelle had Jill, and commented that she was absolutely done with kids- JB would’ve accepted that. I think keeping Michelle happy is his #1, following the lifestyle is #2. 

Well said!

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Michelle was a virgin when she married JB; as was he. What 'terrible baggage' could 16 year old Michelle have had? So, she was 'alone' on a date or two with a guy or two in high school, so what? I think Jim Bob is making more out of this than it is. Michelle's 'past' sounds like it was simply a normal social/dating life for a popular girl in high school...no big deal. The very fact that he asked her out on a DATE, not to court with chaperones for marriage, tells me a lot. Jim Bob had that same experience with Michelle most likely as any of the boys she dated in high school. Since they were more involved and serious with each other, they had a more affectionate dating life experience together. She married him at 17 for heavens sake. All normal, healthy adolescent experiences. She was a cheerleader and obviously from that leotard photo of her in high school, a member of a gymnastics team? I'm sure she had a ball as a kid and as a young teenager; Jim Bob was on his middle school basketball team also. THEY enjoyed their youth but denied that children any experiences outside of their house/family. How can they look back on their normal experiences and say that they were sinful now? 

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2 hours ago, floridamom said:

What 'terrible baggage' could 16 year old Michelle have had?

Exactly! She was a kid, and she married him when she was STILL a kid. By the time she was JimBob’s wife she was what, 2-4 years past puberty? There’s no “past” for her to have had. 
 

I’m sorry but I just don’t believe that a woman in this INCREDIBLY patriarchal cult secretly has all this power. Especially as her husband clutches her with a death grip in photos and dry jumps her on the golf course. She can’t even literally wear pants, let alone the pants in the family. She has probably taken refuge in religion and really does believe all kinds of crazy dreck, and I don’t doubt that she’s genuinely “religious,” but never has Michelle seemed like a happy person with agency. She seems zonked and emotionally/mentally absent. It’s sad, but their whole family life is sad.

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2 hours ago, floridamom said:

Michelle was a virgin when she married JB; as was he. What 'terrible baggage' could 16 year old Michelle have had? So, she was 'alone' on a date or two with a guy or two in high school, so what? I think Jim Bob is making more out of this than it is. Michelle's 'past' sounds like it was simply a normal social/dating life for a popular girl in high school...no big deal.

No it wasn't a big deal. Michelle went to the movies, ice cream, picnics etc and made out with other boys as a teenager. Big "Whoop" to the rest of us, but to JB he was jealous because he did NOT have the same amount of attention from girls before he met Michelle. I think JB is a teeny bit jealous (well more than a teeny bit) that Michelle had options (yet she choose him so shouldn't that make him special) and he didn't. I think it's more that than other boys kissed Michelle before him.

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Keep in mind they weren't involved in Gothard in the beginning of their marriage...not until about 5 years in or so after they miscarried J'Caleb. I'm not even sure that JB would have called it baggage when he first got together with Michelle. It was probably brain-washed into both of them by other Gothard followers several years later.

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34 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Keep in mind they weren't involved in Gothard in the beginning of their marriage...not until about 5 years in or so after they miscarried J'Caleb. I'm not even sure that JB would have called it baggage when he first got together with Michelle. It was probably brain-washed into both of them by other Gothard followers several years later.

I do think that JB's jealousy was always there even before they discovered Gothard.  Bagging the hot cheerleader is a double-edged sword--yes she chose you, but because she had options she wasn't 100% untouched.  That has got to eat at JB, and he used Gothard to give him the words to express his hang-ups in a way that places the blame on Michelle.  

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Folks join cults all the time. Both men and women. Dozens of women became involved in the NXIVM cult. Many of them much older, more independent and more successful than Michelle. Millions are Scientologists. Never mind all the other crazy smaller dangerous cults over time.

I'm guessing not one person in a cult, considered it a cult when they became interested. I also think no one knows the extent of what their getting into either.

Michelle choosing Gothard makes perfect sense to me. She wanted what he was promising. Simple as that.

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing not one person in a cult, considered it a cult when they became interested.

Agreed. And they'll often swear up and down they're not in a cult while in it. 

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So, 13 years old now.  I guess that means in 4 years he'll have a girlfriend special friend, and be married in 5 years.  Poor kid.

And a father in 6 years.  Whoa, time goes fast!

 

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