Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

[GeeGolly]

18 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

A look back.......college.

 

Someone needs to Tweet this to the adult Duggars. I would love to hear their responses.

[lookeyloo]

She looks a lot like her mother there

[Sew Sumi]

Ah, the good ole days of College Minus! The Duggars bore out just how useless it actually was. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

A look back.......college.

 

Welcome to Bullshit Central, the World Headquarters. 

[wilsie]

That video is heart-breaking and angering.  What failures as parents these two are.  And there are people who watch this show and follow these people on social media believing that all this happened, that the kids got to do what they wanted in their lives and everything is great.  Character is important, Jim Bob, but you don't have it and you haven't encouraged it in your oldest son.  

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, wilsie said:

That video is heart-breaking and angering.  What failures as parents these two are.  And there are people who watch this show and follow these people on social media believing that all this happened, that the kids got to do what they wanted in their lives and everything is great.  Character is important, Jim Bob, but you don't have it and you haven't encouraged it in your oldest son.  

This calls for a "Thousand Likes" button. 

[sixlets]

That video just angers me.  They have done the biggest disservice to all of their children.  A solid spirit (or whatever the hell he said) ain't going to pay the bills.  When asked why he wants a college education, (insert J slave here) immediately said to support a family.  Good grief, you are allowed to think about and for yourself regardless of what your idiotic parents say.  Michelle says the children can learn ANYTHING, with such emphasis.  Yep, they sure can.  As long as they stick to the narrative and keep to gender-specific roles.  As for character, great job with Josh.  If he's the pinnacle of their parenting, the rest don't stand a chance.

[Lisa418722]

Hey, JB, I'm not working in the field I got my degree in, but I did have to have a degree in order to get my paralegal certification.  In the first paralegal job I had, I had to have a Bachelor's as well as a paralegal certification. It took me eight years to get my degree and I don't regret getting it. I'm glad I went back to finish and get my degree because I enjoy learning about more than my little world.  Also, I'm a child-free, single woman, I bought a condo on my own, and I work at a job where I have to be there at 8:00 AM every day, so the Duggar family wouldn't know how to handle any of that.  Seeing JB & Michelle act like an education is not a big deal makes me so angry because I wonder what these kids would do if they were given a chance. 

[wilsie]

14 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

Hey, JB, I'm not working in the field I got my degree in, but I did have to have a degree in order to get my paralegal certification.  In the first paralegal job I had, I had to have a Bachelor's as well as a paralegal certification. It took me eight years to get my degree and I don't regret getting it. I'm glad I went back to finish and get my degree because I enjoy learning about more than my little world.  Also, I'm a child-free, single woman, I bought a condo on my own, and I work at a job where I have to be there at 8:00 AM every day, so the Duggar family wouldn't know how to handle any of that.  Seeing JB & Michelle act like an education is not a big deal makes me so angry because I wonder what these kids would do if they were given a chance. 

It's wonderful that you had the opportunity to experience college even if it took a longer time.  You had that choice.  Those kids were so hopeful and their supposedly Christian parents were and continue to be so deceitful about what they offer the Duggar kids in their futures.  

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, wilsie said:

It's wonderful that you had the opportunity to experience college even if it took a longer time.  You had that choice.  Those kids were so hopeful and their supposedly Christian parents were and continue to be so deceitful about what they offer the Duggar kids in their futures.  

Which is why what I wonder is why in the world not a single one of them has gone off and done anything on their own?

And, even more so, I wonder -- Why doesn't even one seem to be enraged by all the lies they were told and the ways they were manipulated? 

They all just keep spouting this "our godly mama and daddy are so wonderful" bullshit. And yet it's perfectly clear that godly mama and daddy lied to them at least as much as they've lied to everyone else......Can they really not see it? Or are they just lazy enough to prefer sitting in the lounge chairs in the TTH rather than actually doing anything? 

Baffles me that that out of all these people not a single one has really taken any initiative to make an individual life. 

[babyhouseman]

9 hours ago, graefin said:

The middle three are Jim Goodwin, Scott Enlow, and John Rotan, who've been working on the show for a while. Dunno who the other ones are.

Mr Jim, the older man with the headphones has been with the show the whole time I think. The Duggars call him Mr. Jim, and he's been on the show.

[farmgal4]

9 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Which is why what I wonder is why in the world not a single one of them has gone off and done anything on their own?

And, even more so, I wonder -- Why doesn't even one seem to be enraged by all the lies they were told and the ways they were manipulated? 

They all just keep spouting this "our godly mama and daddy are so wonderful" bullshit. And yet it's perfectly clear that godly mama and daddy lied to them at least as much as they've lied to everyone else......Can they really not see it? Or are they just lazy enough to prefer sitting in the lounge chairs in the TTH rather than actually doing anything? 

Baffles me that that out of all these people not a single one has really taken any initiative to make an individual life. 

This is what brainwashing looks like.

[Churchhoney]

Just now, farmgal4 said:

This is what brainwashing looks like.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It is.

But I'm still baffled at how you could manage to so thoroughly brainwash so many people. I grew up in a brainwashing situation, and while it was very effective on most of the family, it didn't work 100 percent on everyone. My mind was really warped by it underneath and all those messages will always haunt me -- but I still had the capacity to consciously know (a lot of the time, anyway) that I'd been lied to, manipulated and mistreated and that there was a life elsewhere that I could get and that would mostly likely be very very different. And I got out, at least physically. Not unscathed and unbrainwashed, by any means....But gone. 

And because I'm from that sort of situation, I now know a lot of other people who are, too. .... Lots more lone escapees. .... 

I just can't see how people as stupid as JB and M manage to have an apparent100 percent success rate! 

[Catfin]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It is.

But I'm still baffled at how you could manage to so thoroughly brainwash so many people. I grew up in a brainwashing situation, and while it was very effective on most of the family, it didn't work 100 percent on everyone. My mind was really warped by it underneath and all those messages will always haunt me -- but I still had the capacity to consciously know (a lot of the time, anyway) that I'd been lied to, manipulated and mistreated and that there was a life elsewhere that I could get and that would mostly likely be very very different. And I got out, at least physically. Not unscathed and unbrainwashed, by any means....But gone. 

And because I'm from that sort of situation, I now know a lot of other people who are, too. .... Lots more lone escapees. .... 

I just can't see how people as stupid as JB and M manage to have an apparent100 percent success rate! 

I think the television show has everything to do with no one blowing the lid off the situation. There is some sort of responsibility or concern built in for the younger, unmarrieds the prevents the older, “free” ones from doing so. A public family betrayal would mean the end of the family gravy train. No more $$$. No skills to self support in the manner to which they’ve been accustomed. It is all vulgar and gross.

[Oldernowiser]

Why don’t JimBob and Michelle just tell the truth???

 

”WE DIDN’T GO TO COLLEGE SO NONE OF OUR UNDERLINGS OFFSPRING ARE GOING EITHER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT GET....IDEAS.”

[awaken]

That video is so sad. Really infuriating to see how it’s all turned out so far. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Catfin said:

I think the television show has everything to do with no one blowing the lid off the situation. There is some sort of responsibility or concern built in for the younger, unmarrieds the prevents the older, “free” ones from doing so. A public family betrayal would mean the end of the family gravy train. No more $$$. No skills to self support in the manner to which they’ve been accustomed. It is all vulgar and gross.

Yes. The show has made life comfortable enough that those that might have the inclination to go are okay staying, combined with responsibility towards the littles and the public expectation of staying in the fold. I’d say give it a few years after the show is off the air and you’ll see more siblings leaving the fold. 

[ChiCricket]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It is.

But I'm still baffled at how you could manage to so thoroughly brainwash so many people. I grew up in a brainwashing situation, and while it was very effective on most of the family, it didn't work 100 percent on everyone. My mind was really warped by it underneath and all those messages will always haunt me -- but I still had the capacity to consciously know (a lot of the time, anyway) that I'd been lied to, manipulated and mistreated and that there was a life elsewhere that I could get and that would mostly likely be very very different. And I got out, at least physically. Not unscathed and unbrainwashed, by any means....But gone. 

And because I'm from that sort of situation, I now know a lot of other people who are, too. .... Lots more lone escapees. .... 

I just can't see how people as stupid as JB and M manage to have an apparent100 percent success rate! 

@Churchhoney, I'd understand if you'd rather not say, but I'd be curious if your family situation had corporal punishment along with the brainwashing, like the Duggars? 

Maybe that makes it so much worse (more effective.)

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, wilsie said:

It's wonderful that you had the opportunity to experience college even if it took a longer time.  You had that choice.  Those kids were so hopeful and their supposedly Christian parents were and continue to be so deceitful about what they offer the Duggar kids in their futures.  

I don't know. If you watch the video closely, Jill gives a subtle knowing glance when the "college coach" says these courses are a good foundation for nursing school. I think the college aged Duggars never once planned on going to real college, they were just biding their time until God tossed them a spouse.

[floridamom]

This video was telling. Those girls admitted that they really can't study much because of the noise and other daily obligations around the house. How is that 'doing college'? I think the Duggars were paid to promote College Plus, plain and simple. It's merely a commercial within their TV show. None of their children had any college experience. The one semester that Joe attended Crown College is useless in his professional life, if he has one. Still don't know what he does for a living...John David and Josiah also...no clue.

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, Catfin said:

I think the television show has everything to do with no one blowing the lid off the situation. There is some sort of responsibility or concern built in for the younger, unmarrieds the prevents the older, “free” ones from doing so. A public family betrayal would mean the end of the family gravy train. No more $$$. No skills to self support in the manner to which they’ve been accustomed. It is all vulgar and gross.

Yep, totally agree. I curse the show. It's destroyed lives and will go on doing that until it's off the air. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

@Churchhoney, I'd understand if you'd rather not say, but I'd be curious if your family situation had corporal punishment along with the brainwashing, like the Duggars? 

Maybe that makes it so much worse (more effective.)

Oh, yeah. It had it. And so did plenty of other situations from which people have left. That's not it. 

I can think of two things -- Once the kids became teens and then adults, they've loved the tv fame and come to depend utterly on the tv money. So that's an incentive not to leave or speak up in any way -- or even think the unthinkable -- that this is all bullshit and wrong. (That's the worst thing about brainwashing. It doesn't just stop people from doing and saying. It stops them from thinking.) 

And -- I've said this before and I'll say it again -- I truly believe that JB and M have simply not given birth to anybody who is, by nature, smart or strong enough to rebel or walk away. By the luck of the draw, they've simply given birth to weak-willed idiots, in my opinion. And I don't think we've seen a milligram of evidence to the contrary either. Obviously that can happen, statistically. And I'm pretty sure it has. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Why don’t JimBob and Michelle just tell the truth???

 

”WE DIDN’T GO TO COLLEGE SO NONE OF OUR UNDERLINGS OFFSPRING ARE GOING EITHER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT GET....IDEAS.”

Did you notice that Meechelle actually went halfway there? She said something like, We don't stress college because Jim Bob and I never went to college..... 

She skipped the "because" part. But I thought it was kind of telling that she'd even go as far as she did.

I've known people who never went to high school and who badly wanted their kids to go to college. ....Probably we all have.

So she was telling us what kind of people they are when she flat-out says -- We have no interest in their doing anything other than what we did.

Only two reasons I can think of for that, and I expect both of them are at play in these two assholes: We only went to high school and we're perfect so nobody needs anything else. And the one you mention -- If they went farther, they might get smart enough to notice we're horrendous. (Oh, and a third, I guess -- We put no value on learning, so we're sure as hell not going to pay a dime for it.) 

All three at play, no doubt. And the fact that they don't actually come out and say these things suggests to me that they realize the TeeVee audience, at least, would consider them wrong. ... 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[cdp73]

14 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So she was telling us what kind of people they are when she flat-out says -- We have no interest in their doing anything other than what we did.

 

They don't even have an interest in letting their kids do the things they did do.

[Scarlett45]

36 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, yeah. It had it. And so did plenty of other situations from which people have left. That's not it. 

I can think of two things -- Once the kids became teens and then adults, they've loved the tv fame and come to depend utterly on the tv money. So that's an incentive not to leave or speak up in any way -- or even think the unthinkable -- that this is all bullshit and wrong. (That's the worst thing about brainwashing. It doesn't just stop people from doing and saying. It stops them from thinking.) 

And -- I've said this before and I'll say it again -- I truly believe that JB and M have simply not given birth to anybody who is, by nature, smart or strong enough to rebel or walk away. By the luck of the draw, they've simply given birth to weak-willed idiots, in my opinion. And I don't think we've seen a milligram of evidence to the contrary either. Obviously that can happen, statistically. And I'm pretty sure it has. 

I do appreciate your opinion and insight @Churchhoney- thank you. As someone outside looking in your analysis makes sense to me.

 

I have a friend who grew up quiverfull/fundy- she escaped, I attribute her escape to 1. Having a naturally high IQ, she’s brilliant and is an excellent lawyer- we went to law school together.  2. Being an only child (her parents indulged her free thinking more than their peers because she was their only child, and she didn’t have a bunch of littles to raise) AND 3. Being a lesbian. The idea of having to marry a man, engage in partnered sex with him and raise his children made her want to vomit so she knew she had to get out because she couldn’t live that way.

 

if she had been someone without her intellectual curiosity, kept financially comfortable, focused on caring of her younger siblings and didn’t have the heeby jeebies about a heteronormative marriage she might not have been motivated to leave. 

[Minivanessa]

8 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 IMO, Derick is attracted to the law for the same reason that he's attracted to evangelicalism and accounting - Derick likes rules. He wants to learn the rules and be "right" -- we see that ll the time in his SM posts. He's attracted to areas where he believes he can be "right" and convert people who are "wrong."

I think that the study of law will expose him to a lot of ambiguities, and I don't think he'll ever be comfortable with that. Pistol Pete was a great experience for Derick because he likes the whole idea of the wild west and good guys and bad guys. He wants to go out and "teach" to the world because he wants to believe that there are simple "right" and "wrong" answers to every question, and he knows the answers.

^^This is from the Jill/Derick topic but I think the bolded stuff applies to JB and Michelle. As young(ish) marrieds who had started a family they were, by their own description, feeling themselves drifting (the "staring at the TV" and other stuff). And IIRC after Michelle suffered a miscarriage they were convinced by their OB/GYN (a fundie and I think Gothardite) that it was because they'd committed the sin of using birth control pills. Somehow they got hooked up into that fundie/Gothard world, and it gave them the security of having rules and the belief that they were doing God's will by following all those rules and keeping themselves apart from the rest of the world that didn't follow them.

As to the kids, I think the bolded statement by @Scarlett45 is very perceptive:

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

II have a friend who grew up quiverfull/fundy- she escaped, I attribute her escape to 1. Having a naturally high IQ, she’s brilliant and is an excellent lawyer- we went to law school together.  2. Being an only child (her parents indulged her free thinking more than their peers because she was their only child, and she didn’t have a bunch of littles to raise) AND 3. Being a lesbian. The idea of having to marry a man, engage in partnered sex with him and raise his children made her want to vomit so she knew she had to get out because she couldn’t live that way.

if she had been someone without her intellectual curiosity, kept financially comfortable, focused on caring of her younger siblings and didn’t have the heeby jeebies about a heteronormative marriage she might not have been motivated to leave. 

And @Churchhoney has nailed it with the observation that so far we haven't seen a single Duggarling with the smarts and strength to question authority, much less walk away. 

All of the above is why I just roll my eyes - and refrain from commenting - when I read posts which at all seriously discuss the idea of any of the Duggar litter "breaking free." IMO that's on the same level of fantasy as pigs sprouting wings. No offense intended to pigs. However, that said, I treasure @mynextmistake's hilarious excerpts from Sam's hostage journal. I heart satire!

[FizzyPuff]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Did you notice that Meechelle actually went halfway there? She said something like, We don't stress college because Jim Bob and I never went to college..... 

She skipped the "because" part. But I thought it was kind of telling that she'd even go as far as she did.

I've known people who never went to high school and who badly wanted their kids to go to college. ....Probably we all have.

So she was telling us what kind of people they are when she flat-out says -- We have no interest in their doing anything other than what we did.

Only two reasons I can think of for that, and I expect both of them are at play in these two assholes: We only went to high school and we're perfect so nobody needs anything else. And the one you mention -- If they went farther, they might get smart enough to notice we're horrendous. (Oh, and a third, I guess -- We put no value on learning, so we're sure as hell not going to pay a dime for it.) 

All three at play, no doubt. And the fact that they don't actually come out and say these things suggests to me that they realize the TeeVee audience, at least, would consider them wrong. ... 

 

I’m actually surprised they let Joseph go to college though, what’s so special about him? I really think all these kids once they were 18 should’ve had the chance to go to college just to get away from JB & M for a bit, even if they all dropped out at least they would know what it’s like to be away from their parents before they married them off. The video did annoy me though how they said they could all go to college if they wanted too LIARS! The beginning of the the video where Jill is learning Spanish and speaking It and Michelle says she hasn’t got a clue what she’s saying made me think one of those girls should’ve met someone who couldn’t speak English and had all kinds of conversation right in front of JB & M and those idiots wouldn’t have a clue lol. E.g Spanish friend : your parents are stupid, Jill: totally, M to Jill what did she/he say, Jill: you guys are so cool, Michelle: Aww isn’t that sweet. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Puffin

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, Puffin said:

I’m actually surprised they let Joseph go to college though, what’s so special about him? 

My guess? Clown gave them reduced or free tuition and they let him go, hoping he'd find a wife.

[Mollie]

54 minutes ago, Puffin said:

I’m actually surprised they let Joseph go to college though, what’s so special about him? 

When he went to Crown College, he lived with the Bates family.  I think that a possible courtship with one of the Bates daughters was in the works.  The only thing he took at that college was a Bible Study course. That only lasted one year and then he was back to Arkansas.

[LilJen]

23 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Which is why what I wonder is why in the world not a single one of them has gone off and done anything on their own?

And, even more so, I wonder -- Why doesn't even one seem to be enraged by all the lies they were told and the ways they were manipulated? 

They all just keep spouting this "our godly mama and daddy are so wonderful" bullshit. And yet it's perfectly clear that godly mama and daddy lied to them at least as much as they've lied to everyone else......Can they really not see it? Or are they just lazy enough to prefer sitting in the lounge chairs in the TTH rather than actually doing anything? 

Baffles me that that out of all these people not a single one has really taken any initiative to make an individual life. 

 

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, yeah. It had it. And so did plenty of other situations from which people have left. That's not it. 

I can think of two things -- Once the kids became teens and then adults, they've loved the tv fame and come to depend utterly on the tv money. So that's an incentive not to leave or speak up in any way -- or even think the unthinkable -- that this is all bullshit and wrong. (That's the worst thing about brainwashing. It doesn't just stop people from doing and saying. It stops them from thinking.) 

And -- I've said this before and I'll say it again -- I truly believe that JB and M have simply not given birth to anybody who is, by nature, smart or strong enough to rebel or walk away. By the luck of the draw, they've simply given birth to weak-willed idiots, in my opinion. And I don't think we've seen a milligram of evidence to the contrary either. Obviously that can happen, statistically. And I'm pretty sure it has. 

 

Three: there's some very, very strong emotional abuse going on (along with any physical abuse that has been practiced). The manipulation into a certain mindset is complete and there's an underlying message that if you step out of that mindset, if you do anything contrary to the Accepted Family Truths, well. . .  you had better watch out. SATAN will get you, and so will everyone else. (Mind you, I don't think that this is some cold, calculating, stunningly intentional manipulation: it's just how JB & Michelle operate without even really thinking about how warped it is and how awful it is for their children.)

Edited January 1, 2019 by LilJen

[Churchhoney]

31 minutes ago, LilJen said:

 

Three: there's some very, very strong emotional abuse going on (along with any physical abuse that has been practiced). The manipulation into a certain mindset is complete and there's an underlying message that if you step out of that mindset, if you do anything contrary to the Accepted Family Truths, well. . .  you had better watch out. SATAN will get you, and so will everyone else. (Mind you, I don't think that this is some cold, calculating, stunningly intentional manipulation: it's just how JB & Michelle operate without even really thinking about how warped it is and how awful it is for their children.)

 

Absolutely. Exactly the same thing in my family. .... They are unusual, but far from unique. ... My only point is that people do leave from such situations. And do see and speak the truth about them. So to produce a gazillion kids and have them all still singing your praises and moving in next door is at least as remarkable as the situation itself, to me! I wouldn't find it terribly striking if they had a quarter as many kids. ... It's having no defectors yet out of such a large number that I find surprising! 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

I'm a little surprised nobody has broke free yet too.

But in my experience, it often seems like the younger ones in large, dysfunctional fundie families are the first to break free.

Had some friends growing up who remind me a bit of the Duggars, except the kids actually were smart and talented. Just extremely controlled. I think I've discussed them on here some.

There were 7 of them: 6 girls and 1 boy. Most of the girls and the boy were a little older than me, with 2 of the sisters quite a bit younger. The oldest half-sister had broken free years before, but I think she was quite a bit older, so the parents still retained their hold on the others and made that daughter seem like a godless scoundrel for leaving. Nobody seemed to dispute the party line, and they didn't seem to have any real memories of her. 

The older girls I knew were very obedient to their controlling parents, but otherwise were bright and articulate and hard-working. They ran their own business (while still leaving under their parents' roof) and were really pleasant to talk to. I never understood why they (well into their 20s) let their parents boss them around the way they did.

The 2 younger ones, though, had had it a little easier, probably because they got lost in the mix, and they were definitely not as easy-going about following Mom and Dad's rules. Both of those girls rebelled in their teens, and it seemed only then that the others had the courage to follow suit. Not sure any of them are in touch with their parents now. 

So, I think it will be some of the younger Duggars who will also be the ones to cast off the shackles first, especially since I'm sure the gravy train will have well dried up by the time they come of age. I think financial incentive is a biggie with the Duggars and keeping the kids in line. It won't work if there's nothing left in the piggy bank, though. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I'm a little surprised nobody has broke free yet too.

But in my experience, it often seems like the younger ones in large, dysfunctional fundie families are the first to break free.

Had some friends growing up who remind me a bit of the Duggars, except the kids actually were smart and talented. Just extremely controlled. I think I've discussed them on here some.

There were 7 of them: 6 girls and 1 boy. Most of the girls and the boy were a little older than me, with 2 of the sisters quite a bit younger. The oldest half-sister had broken free years before, but I think she was quite a bit older, so the parents still retained their hold on the others and made that daughter seem like a godless scoundrel for leaving. Nobody seemed to dispute the party line, and they didn't seem to have any real memories of her. 

The older girls I knew were very obedient to their controlling parents, but otherwise were bright and articulate and hard-working. They ran their own business (while still leaving under their parents' roof) and were really pleasant to talk to. I never understood why they (well into their 20s) let their parents boss them around the way they did.

The 2 younger ones, though, had had it a little easier, probably because they got lost in the mix, and they were definitely not as easy-going about following Mom and Dad's rules. Both of those girls rebelled in their teens, and it seemed only then that the others had the courage to follow suit. Not sure any of them are in touch with their parents now. 

So, I think it will be some of the younger Duggars who will also be the ones to cast off the shackles first, especially since I'm sure the gravy train will have well dried up by the time they come of age. I think financial incentive is a biggie with the Duggars and keeping the kids in line. It won't work if there's nothing left in the piggy bank, though. 

Yep, definitely much easier to decide you've had enough of a poor crazy family than a well-off crazy family, no question! 

[ginger90]

[floridamom]

^^^^^Duggar parents....if you truly LOVED your daughters, you would have given them a good, quality education and opportunities to experience a good life outside of that house. (You also might have bought them proper, NEW, well-fitting footwear.

[bythelake]

On 12/31/2018 at 8:36 PM, Zella said:

I'm a little surprised nobody has broke free yet too.

But in my experience, it often seems like the younger ones in large, dysfunctional fundie families are the first to break free.

Had some friends growing up who remind me a bit of the Duggars, except the kids actually were smart and talented. Just extremely controlled. I think I've discussed them on here some.

There were 7 of them: 6 girls and 1 boy. Most of the girls and the boy were a little older than me, with 2 of the sisters quite a bit younger. The oldest half-sister had broken free years before, but I think she was quite a bit older, so the parents still retained their hold on the others and made that daughter seem like a godless scoundrel for leaving. Nobody seemed to dispute the party line, and they didn't seem to have any real memories of her. 

The older girls I knew were very obedient to their controlling parents, but otherwise were bright and articulate and hard-working. They ran their own business (while still leaving under their parents' roof) and were really pleasant to talk to. I never understood why they (well into their 20s) let their parents boss them around the way they did.

The 2 younger ones, though, had had it a little easier, probably because they got lost in the mix, and they were definitely not as easy-going about following Mom and Dad's rules. Both of those girls rebelled in their teens, and it seemed only then that the others had the courage to follow suit. Not sure any of them are in touch with their parents now. 

So, I think it will be some of the younger Duggars who will also be the ones to cast off the shackles first, especially since I'm sure the gravy train will have well dried up by the time they come of age. I think financial incentive is a biggie with the Duggars and keeping the kids in line. It won't work if there's nothing left in the piggy bank, though. 

As long as the show is on the air, no one will break free. JB has probably pounded into their heads that their bread and butter is the show. Keeping it alive is his goal and he works very hard at that. The show is allowing all of them to lives that none of them would have had with 9-5 jobs, and they all know it. So they all stay in line.

With SiRen and Jabby now added to the cast, and the howlers reaching courtship age, sadly, it will be around for a long time.

The Duggars have a large fan base. Remember the outcry they were cancelled the first time? 

If only JB could arrange a  marriage for Jana, the ratings would go through the roof.

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, bythelake said:

If only JB could arrange a  marriage for Jana, the ratings would go through the roof.

I think he's keeping that as his ace in the hole for when TLC seems ready to drop him or when Josh brings another big scandal down on their heads.

 

1 hour ago, bythelake said:

Keeping it alive is his goal and he works very hard at that.

We've always speculated here that the money the adult kids earn from the show goes into a general fund which JB controls and from which he doles out allowances. I don't know if that's true, but even if it isn't, I'll bet that he made all of them sign contracts that allow him to rake off a substantial fee for acting as their manager, a la Kris Kardashian.

[Nysha]

On 12/31/2018 at 7:46 AM, Jeeves said:

And @Churchhoney has nailed it with the observation that so far we haven't seen a single Duggarling with the smarts and strength to question authority, much less walk away. 

But few of the other "famous" fundy kids have broken free, either. Sarah Maxwell is a grown woman sleeping in a bunk bed, her married siblings have enough money to buy/build a house debt free, yet none of them have gone off the fundy path. The Bates adult kids are a bit more liberal and their unmarried ones have more freedom than the Duggar kids, but they're still drinking the Kool-aid and sticking with the official fundy line. 

I think they stay because they want to live that life. Yes, they're brainwashed, but the Duggars have had enough exposure to real life through TLC outings to know that the majority of the world doesn't live in their bubble. Even Sarah Maxwell has enough smarts to know that her situation is weird, or she wouldn't have a blog defending it. Josh Duggar may be unhappy with his life, but he isn't unhappy enough to give up everything and go.

I'm pretty sure that, except for Josh and Derick, if any of the adult kids approached TLC and said we want to break free and be liberal/gay/atheists/normal mainstream college students TLC would jump for joy and give them their own show in a New York minute. So money isn't even the issue, instead, they've chosen to stay with the family because their brand is more important than their personal happiness. Or, maybe they are happy and we're just projecting our own feelings of horror at what we perceive to be a boring, shallow existence.

[queenanne]

41 minutes ago, Nysha said:

But few of the other "famous" fundy kids have broken free, either. Sarah Maxwell is a grown woman sleeping in a bunk bed, her married siblings have enough money to buy/build a house debt free, yet none of them have gone off the fundy path. The Bates adult kids are a bit more liberal and their unmarried ones have more freedom than the Duggar kids, but they're still drinking the Kool-aid and sticking with the official fundy line. 

I think they stay because they want to live that life. Yes, they're brainwashed, but the Duggars have had enough exposure to real life through TLC outings to know that the majority of the world doesn't live in their bubble. Even Sarah Maxwell has enough smarts to know that her situation is weird, or she wouldn't have a blog defending it. Josh Duggar may be unhappy with his life, but he isn't unhappy enough to give up everything and go.

I'm pretty sure that, except for Josh and Derick, if any of the adult kids approached TLC and said we want to break free and be liberal/gay/atheists/normal mainstream college students TLC would jump for joy and give them their own show in a New York minute. So money isn't even the issue, instead, they've chosen to stay with the family because their brand is more important than their personal happiness. Or, maybe they are happy and we're just projecting our own feelings of horror at what we perceive to be a boring, shallow existence.

I feel like it’s important to remember that timid fearful people who have decided they think they can’t be trusted to make their own decisions without a written rule book, as well as those harboring a deep seated inferiority complex; are in turn likely to sire/eject timid fearful offspring who also cannot function without structure and ‘someone telling them what to do’.

[satrunrose]

I think there's a lot of factors keeping the younger generation in line: a need to look out for siblings, limited exposure to the secular world and those exposures always filtered through mama, daddy and Mr Gothard, scare tactics, defensiveness, lack of education, limited employment opportunities and let's not underestimate the hellfire. And although the Duggar's are probably making the most off of their family brand, the Bates and the Maxwells (maybe even the Rodrigui) also use their fundyism as their main money maker. Sarah Maxwell may actually be the most trapped by the family media presence. The Bates and Duggars have a more mainstream audience and lo and behold, they're putting up a more mainstream front. The Maxwells are preaching to the like-minded, so I doubt you'll ever see the quiet appearance of pants, pepsi or sports. 

I think it's telling that in families that are still hard-core, but not selling their piety, like Bin's family or the Kellers, there's more variety in the youngsters.  

[awaken]

3 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I think there's a lot of factors keeping the younger generation in line: a need to look out for siblings, limited exposure to the secular world and those exposures always filtered through mama, daddy and Mr Gothard, scare tactics, defensiveness, lack of education, limited employment opportunities and let's not underestimate the hellfire. And although the Duggar's are probably making the most off of their family brand, the Bates and the Maxwells (maybe even the Rodrigui) also use their fundyism as their main money maker. Sarah Maxwell may actually be the most trapped by the family media presence. The Bates and Duggars have a more mainstream audience and lo and behold, they're putting up a more mainstream front. The Maxwells are preaching to the like-minded, so I doubt you'll ever see the quiet appearance of pants, pepsi or sports. 

I think it's telling that in families that are still hard-core, but not selling their piety, like Bin's family or the Kellers, there's more variety in the youngsters.  

 

Thats a fascinating thought!  I think that explains a lot. 

[JoanArc]

12 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I think it's telling that in families that are still hard-core, but not selling their piety, like Bin's family or the Kellers, there's more variety in the youngsters.  

Mr Keller published books and has his little prison ministry. He certainly tired to be a big wheel with Gothard. They're a (realtively) poor family though, so a few of his kids slipped through the cracks. 

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, Nysha said:

But few of the other "famous" fundy kids have broken free, either. Sarah Maxwell is a grown woman sleeping in a bunk bed, her married siblings have enough money to buy/build a house debt free, yet none of them have gone off the fundy path. The Bates adult kids are a bit more liberal and their unmarried ones have more freedom than the Duggar kids, but they're still drinking the Kool-aid and sticking with the official fundy line. 

I think they stay because they want to live that life. Yes, they're brainwashed, but the Duggars have had enough exposure to real life through TLC outings to know that the majority of the world doesn't live in their bubble. Even Sarah Maxwell has enough smarts to know that her situation is weird, or she wouldn't have a blog defending it. Josh Duggar may be unhappy with his life, but he isn't unhappy enough to give up everything and go.

I'm pretty sure that, except for Josh and Derick, if any of the adult kids approached TLC and said we want to break free and be liberal/gay/atheists/normal mainstream college students TLC would jump for joy and give them their own show in a New York minute. So money isn't even the issue, instead, they've chosen to stay with the family because their brand is more important than their personal happiness. Or, maybe they are happy and we're just projecting our own feelings of horror at what we perceive to be a boring, shallow existence.

That's how I define "stupid," actually! Choosing groupthink over being you and believing that's the most advantageous choice!

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Mr Keller published books and has his little prison ministry. He certainly tired to be a big wheel with Gothard. They're a (realtively) poor family though, so a few of his kids slipped through the cracks. 

Yeah, it's not so much that Keller wasn't selling the piety, but that he just didn't hit the jackpot like Jim Bob did. Because of TV, JB could afford a huge bus/RV (even if they didn't keep it clean) in which he could haul his brood around to appearances. Duggar kids were rolling down the highway in a big comfy air-conditioned bus, while the Keller kids probably bumped along squashed together in an old van, arguing over whether to open or close the windows for air. Not hard to predict who would be more likely to question their family lifestyle.

ETA: ^^That's metaphor. I know the Duggars had the "stinkbus," and no, I don't know for sure what vehicles Pa Keller has used to haul his family around in but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a nice big bus-sized RV like JB had. And I doubt it was fancy or late-model.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Jeeves

[JoanArc]

49 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Not hard to predict who would be more likely to question their family lifestyle.

Don't forget they essentially lived in a double-wide trailer, too. They're the Duggars without the TV show, and the real estate inroads. I think the Duggars will see some soft-exits, like Jinger, followed by hard exits once the money is truly stretched and gone through,

[Albanyguy]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Yeah, it's not so much that Keller wasn't selling the piety, but that he just didn't hit the jackpot like Jim Bob did.

Although he did manage to marry one of his daughters off to the crown prince of a famous TV family and another daughter to Bill Gothard's protégé/right hand man. Fundy social climbing at its finest.

[Vantraveller]

Just waiting for the video making Jessa's pregnancy all about THEM.  We are so blessed with grandbaby number how many is it now??

[GeeGolly]

On 1/8/2019 at 12:50 PM, Nysha said:

But few of the other "famous" fundy kids have broken free, either. Sarah Maxwell is a grown woman sleeping in a bunk bed, her married siblings have enough money to buy/build a house debt free, yet none of them have gone off the fundy path. The Bates adult kids are a bit more liberal and their unmarried ones have more freedom than the Duggar kids, but they're still drinking the Kool-aid and sticking with the official fundy line. 

I think they stay because they want to live that life. Yes, they're brainwashed, but the Duggars have had enough exposure to real life through TLC outings to know that the majority of the world doesn't live in their bubble. Even Sarah Maxwell has enough smarts to know that her situation is weird, or she wouldn't have a blog defending it. Josh Duggar may be unhappy with his life, but he isn't unhappy enough to give up everything and go.

I'm pretty sure that, except for Josh and Derick, if any of the adult kids approached TLC and said we want to break free and be liberal/gay/atheists/normal mainstream college students TLC would jump for joy and give them their own show in a New York minute. So money isn't even the issue, instead, they've chosen to stay with the family because their brand is more important than their personal happiness. Or, maybe they are happy and we're just projecting our own feelings of horror at what we perceive to be a boring, shallow existence.

Great post. I believe some stay for a variety of reasons and not all are staying for the same reasons. The last line or your post is very true as evidenced by the varying thoughts we all post. What gets some of us riled up, others are like, meh. However I think the majority of us can't imagine living a life even remotely similar to these folks lives.

I'd be interesting in knowing if anyone in any of these families have identified a mainstream line they won't cross. Whether it be something as insignificant in clothing choices and watching modern TV shows or something like dating 'without' a purpose and intentionally controlling family size. Like is Jessa on her knees praying for Ben's siblings so they won't go to hell? Scrap that, Jessa's to selfish to care. But when do their fears take over and keep them from dipping their toes farther into the non-Fundy world?

[Minivanessa]

23 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If JB was worth even 5 million, that's about $250,000.00 for each of the 19 kids. A quarter of a million is a significant amount of money to inherit, yet wouldn't last the average person 10 years if that was their sole income. And a quarter million will be worth even less in 30 or 40 years.

 

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

True, but presumably, JB's estate will grow substantially over that 30-40 years too; so there would be a lot more than $5 mill to divide.  Even so, waiting for your parents to die and leave you some cash is hardly an intelligent strategy for life, which probably means a lot of the kids are doing just that.  As someone whose parents didn't have a dime to leave, I guess I just don't understand that thinking and I think I'm better off for it.

 

5 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

It won't grow all that substantially once the show ends and he has to support most of his own offspring as well as their families because the bulk of them won't have the skills, education or drive to make decent money themselves.

Bringing this over from the Jinger/Jeremy topic.

There are so many variables and unknowns as to what kind of estate JB will leave, and to whom, when he leaves this evil earth to sit on the right hand of God. First, as noted, he's likely to live for another 30 years - and his final few years might be in a cash-draining care facility of some sort. I don't know how it works in Arkansas, but I'd bet Michelle would be considered to basically own half of all their property/cash (marital property), so all that JB could dispose of by will would be his half.  If he predeceases Michelle, she's likely to inherit it all, plus there's whatever expenses she'll incur in her final years. 

A net worth of $X million doesn't mean there's that amount of liquid assets, of course. We know JB owns several businesses, and he probably has investments in others as well as his real estate holdings. We don't know how much cash he's sitting on, or would have at his death. He could establish trusts for some assets, some assets could be held in a way that they wouldn't be part of his estate at death, and there are a zillion other possible wrinkles in terms of what JB "owns" and its disposition on his death. I can see him wanting to keep some sort of Duggar entity going after his death, as part of his plan for having founded a huge Duggar multi-generational tribe that's pleasing to Jesus and financially self-sustaining. 

So I'd be surprised if he would have a will that just simply divides his assets among his kids, as in having everything liquidated and handing them each an amount of cash from the proceeds. IOW it's likely to be a more complicated estate plan. One possibility is that he leaves each of his kids an ownership share in some sort of Duggar Enterprises type organization or trust, or maybe an ownership share in each of JB's ongoing businesses. The heirs could choose to continue the businesses, some heirs might want to cash out their ownership, or maybe all the new owners would choose to sell/liquidate the business. I just don't see JB doing estate planning that will hand any of his kids a substantial amount of cash as an inheritance. I see him as the controlling type who will want to tie things up nine ways to Sunday in an attempt to control what happens after he's gone. Just my opinion, of course.

[Sew Sumi]

Boobchelle have had a trust set up for years. It holds their main properties (I've seen the tax records). What remains unclear is how many properties stay in the trust, or whether the properties he flips go in there at all. The last time I checked Duggar tax records, the trust held about 10 properties. There's also Duggar Enterprises and Duggar Aviation, LLC. That's just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's more assets squirreled away in various companies that we don't know about. 

Bottom line, the trust is in both names, so both of them will have to shuffle off this mortal coil before the kids see a dime.