Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[CouchTater]

The policy I'm considering is life insurance with the long-term care rider.  It has different options for how to use the money.  It also allows for opt-out/cash-out of the money I've paid into it at some qualifying point (I forget the qualifiers).  It sounds really interesting.

Doing research on this topic this morning, I found an alternative term for this type of coverage that freaked me out:  "accelerated death benefit."  Ugh.

[Jeanne222]

5 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Thank you Jeanne!  The FP's concern for me is that if I have a some need to long-term care that wipes me financially, including my home, and I recover...now what?  I sometimes wish we knew if we were going to live to be 50, 75, 100, etc.  The FP asked about my parents' and my grandparents' longevity.  My parents died pretty young and my grandparents were pretty old, so who knows?

Man, I would hate to outlive my resources.....ugh.

Wow!  That sounds like an ordeal.  I hope I don't have to do that.  I do think I'm going to have to move forward with it.    I can fit it into my budget, but I just don't wanna do it!!!  😭

Thanks Westie.

Well now that’s something I never thought about!  Hummm.   I always related nursing homes to the end but I guess you could go in and come out!

There is something called a 5 year look back.  So with our insurance our resources could be removed during those five years. 
 

I’d probably put money in a safe deposit box tucked away for when I reappeared!  

6 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Our LTC policy covers either nursing home OR in-our-home care, so whatever we need when the time comes.

Yes we have five years nursing home or 3 years in home care. 

The rider on our policy was very important because nursing homes go up every year!

[MargeGunderson]

3 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Switching topics to share some good news from my home front:

I have been putting off meeting with financial planners for year because I was pretty sure what a planner's recommendations would be, and that I wouldn't want to follow those recommendations:  save more, spend less.

Welp, I finally broke down and signed up with a financial planning service.  We had our first deep-dive meeting yesterday with their proposals for me, and shockingly I am in great shape for retirement!  I am on track for all of my goals!!!  This new was a huge weight lifted off of me that I didn't even consciously know I had (until it lifted). I have started to have anxiety about my "golden years," as I am single and child-free.  I think I'm going to be on my own little retirement island, alone, when I'm "golden."  And eek!  It's the life I've chosen, but I'm freaking out a little as retirement gets closer.

I still have at least 11 years to go until I can retire, according to the professionals, but I'll probably work until 65 (14 more years), if I'm fortunate enough to do so. 

The only crack in my armor might be a lack of long-term care planning that Medicare won't cover.  I received some recommendations around insurance and it's expensive!  So I'm still debating what to do about that.  Have any of you purchased and/or used any kind of long-term care insurance, and would be willing to share about it?

 

Good for you for getting it done, and congratulations on being well prepared for retirement! If you don’t mind sharing, how did you find your financial planning service? I have been putting this off as well, so you’ve inspired me to get started. 

[Jeanne222]

5 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

The policy I'm considering is life insurance with the long-term care rider.  It has different options for how to use the money.  It also allows for opt-out/cash-out of the money I've paid into it at some qualifying point (I forget the qualifiers).  It sounds really interesting.

Doing research on this topic this morning, I found an alternative term for this type of coverage that freaked me out:  "accelerated death benefit."  Ugh.

It might not be a bad idea to get a second opinion with a different FP.  I don’t think there is a charge for the consultation. 

See what others have to say. 

Each person has different needs and there are so many different ways to go and new plans like you are describing. 

[CouchTater]

1 minute ago, MargeGunderson said:

Good for you for getting it done, and congratulations on being well prepared for retirement! If you don’t mind sharing, how did you find your financial planning service? I have been putting this off as well, so you’ve inspired me to get started. 

Thanks Marge.  I went with a planner that a good friend and her hubby use.  Friend and hubby are very comfortable, now retired and living it up!  LOL.  I'm trying to emulate them, as much as I can on the financial front.  I want to be like them when I grow up.

But I like @Jeanne222's idea of getting a second consultation, to gather other ideas/input.  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Switching topics to share some good news from my home front:

I have been putting off meeting with financial planners for year because I was pretty sure what a planner's recommendations would be, and that I wouldn't want to follow those recommendations:  save more, spend less.

Welp, I finally broke down and signed up with a financial planning service.  We had our first deep-dive meeting yesterday with their proposals for me, and shockingly I am in great shape for retirement!  I am on track for all of my goals!!!  This new was a huge weight lifted off of me that I didn't even consciously know I had (until it lifted). I have started to have anxiety about my "golden years," as I am single and child-free.  I think I'm going to be on my own little retirement island, alone, when I'm "golden."  And eek!  It's the life I've chosen, but I'm freaking out a little as retirement gets closer.

I still have at least 11 years to go until I can retire, according to the professionals, but I'll probably work until 65 (14 more years), if I'm fortunate enough to do so. 

The only crack in my armor might be a lack of long-term care planning that Medicare won't cover.  I received some recommendations around insurance and it's expensive!  So I'm still debating what to do about that.  Have any of you purchased and/or used any kind of long-term care insurance, and would be willing to share about it?

 

Congrats on being on track for retirement! I am single and childfree as well, and its a huge concern. We have no idea how long we will live and how much care we will need. For me, I have no idea how long my sister is going to live either.

My plan is to have so much money that I never have to touch the goose- and live off of the eggs, and when I die the goose can go where I want to go. I am interested to hear about ppl's experiences with long term care insurance.

[NotthebadVictoria]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

Um, I have never been able to afford a separate pair of prescription sunglasses and really don't know anyone who has that kind of money. I have transitions lenses, and if I still need sunglasses, I just buy oversized sunglasses off the rack and wear them over my regular glasses. 

I lucked out with insurance where my vision insurance covered the sunglasses and the medical covered my regular glasses, so between that and my flex account they ended up not costing anything out of pocket. But I did add to my flex account knowing I would be doing the new glasses and my hearing aid this year.

[CouchTater]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Congrats on being on track for retirement! I am single and childfree as well, and its a huge concern. We have no idea how long we will live and how much care we will need. For me, I have no idea how long my sister is going to live either.

My plan is to have so much money that I never have to touch the goose- and live off of the eggs, and when I die the goose can go where I want to go. I am interested to hear about ppl's experiences with long term care insurance.

I'm not quite in your boat re:  your sister, but I have a niece with Asperger's.  Her mom (my older sister) is only 61 but not healthy.  Niece isn't really self-sufficient.  I can totally imagine having to take some responsibility for her if something were to happen to my sister.

My other dilemma is what happens to my "stuff" when I'm gone?  I have 4 nieces and 2 nephews, and now 3 little great-nieces and a great-nephew.  I used to name my 3 siblings as my beneficiaries for everything.  1 sibling is deceased now, and 2 nieces, 2 nephews and the new great-nephew all belong to him.  Do I now name each one of them as a beneficiary?  Name the oldest as beneficiary and let him know I expect him to share his siblings?  It's a real dilemma for me.

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with any of my nieces and nephews managing anything for me, while I'm alive and after I'm dead.  😆

[Westiepeach]

10 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Good for you for getting it done, and congratulations on being well prepared for retirement! If you don’t mind sharing, how did you find your financial planning service? I have been putting this off as well, so you’ve inspired me to get started. 

We got our financial planner through the bank Husband's father used when he died. We made an appointment with him because he knew FIL and was familiar with his accounts, etc. We lucked out ~ we LOVE him. Actually we work with 2 FP's ~ the "main" one and his partner. They are both awesome and totally got us on track. Best decision ever.

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

I'm not quite in your boat re:  your sister, but I have a niece with Asperger's.  Her mom (my older sister) is only 61 but not healthy.  Niece isn't really self-sufficient.  I can totally imagine having to take some responsibility for her if something were to happen to my sister.

My other dilemma is what happens to my "stuff" when I'm gone?  I have 4 nieces and 2 nephews, and now 3 little great-nieces and a great-nephew.  I used to name my 3 siblings as my beneficiaries for everything.  1 sibling is deceased now, and 2 nieces, 2 nephews and the new great-nephew all belong to him.  Do I now name each one of them as a beneficiary?  Name the oldest as beneficiary and let him know I expect him to share his siblings?  It's a real dilemma for me.

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with any of my nieces and nephews managing anything for me, while I'm alive and after I'm dead.  😆

My sister has a severe mental disability- she and my Mom live in my downstairs unit (most of the country calls them duplexes, we call them 2 Flats in Chicago), she has the mental capacity of an 18month-2yrs old, with the dexterity of an adult, and full mobility- great love of all things Disney. She requires 24/7 supervision and daily care (bathing, changing, linen, cooking etc). The caregiver bill if we are both down for the count will obviously be higher than if its just me (my sister is healthy as an ox, with no mental stress, but many people in her situation die pretty closely to their parent, the psychological grief and not being able to rationalize I guess). So I am preparing her for her out live me (financially), but I also know she may not make it a year after our Mom goes.

How I have my will set up now, out side of the building, people can take a few personal things they want, and liquidate the rest of value (or donate it) and use it to care for my sister and I have willed my pets to a friend in LA. (the state not the city)

[Scarlett45]

Random thought (I am full of them today).

 

Random- I love the graphic of Johannes Gutenberg on google for today. (yes I had to double check that I spelled his name right, and I DID)

[QuinnInND]

28 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Random thought (I am full of them today).

 

Random- I love the graphic of Johannes Gutenberg on google for today. (yes I had to double chat that I spelled his name right, and I DID)

I love it too. Very cool looking. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, CouchTater said:

I'm not quite in your boat re:  your sister, but I have a niece with Asperger's.  Her mom (my older sister) is only 61 but not healthy.  Niece isn't really self-sufficient.  I can totally imagine having to take some responsibility for her if something were to happen to my sister.

My other dilemma is what happens to my "stuff" when I'm gone?  I have 4 nieces and 2 nephews, and now 3 little great-nieces and a great-nephew.  I used to name my 3 siblings as my beneficiaries for everything.  1 sibling is deceased now, and 2 nieces, 2 nephews and the new great-nephew all belong to him.  Do I now name each one of them as a beneficiary?  Name the oldest as beneficiary and let him know I expect him to share his siblings?  It's a real dilemma for me.

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with any of my nieces and nephews managing anything for me, while I'm alive and after I'm dead.  😆

Please take the time and spell out your wishes.  If you want your stuff to go to a number of people,  put it in writing.   Naming the oldest and hoping he/she shares is a recipe for trouble. 

[Jenniferbug]

At what age is it recommended you meet with a financial planner and start really planning for retirement? 

Also I know we have some lawyers on the board- are wills fairly easy to set up? What information do we need to start one? We meant to meet with an attorney to get one set up last summer but then the pandemic happened. 

My husband and I are both under 40, but should probably start planning for the future more than we have. I have a 401k at work that I've been putting a bit of money into each paycheck and he's a teacher so will have IPERS. We did get life insurance set up last year before the pandemic. 

We don't have a formal will, but everyone in our family is aware of who will get our children if something happens to both of us, and my sister knows she is the beneficiary on all our life insurance policies should something happen to both of us (I told her since she gets my kids, she can either use the money to raise them or she can put it in bank accounts for them). We don't really have other assets, and I assume our families would take what they want and sell or donate the rest. But seems like we should probably have it formalized anyway! 

[ginger90]

My grandmother passed (1987)before my grandfather. They lived upstate in New York. My mother’s sister thought that was the time to help herself to things from their house. “I gave mother this.....”, “I always liked this....”, that type of shit. My grandfather was still alive and was going to be living in the house. After a few days of this crap, and after some time had passed, my grandfather asked my mother to put the house on the market. He sold it quickly and gave each grandchild some money, and moved to where my parents were living in New York, where he had grown up and raised his family, 3 hours away. My mother took him to have a will drawn up, and then referenced my grandmother’s will, to see what my grandfather, or my mother would need to do.

That was the end of our family’s relationship with my mother’s sister to this day.

This is what my grandmother’s will was written in, and followed to the letter so there’d be no more nonsense:

[xtwheeler]

24 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

At what age is it recommended you meet with a financial planner and start really planning for retirement? 

Also I know we have some lawyers on the board- are wills fairly easy to set up? What information do we need to start one? We meant to meet with an attorney to get one set up last summer but then the pandemic happened. 

My husband and I are both under 40, but should probably start planning for the future more than we have. I have a 401k at work that I've been putting a bit of money into each paycheck and he's a teacher so will have IPERS. We did get life insurance set up last year before the pandemic. 

We don't have a formal will, but everyone in our family is aware of who will get our children if something happens to both of us, and my sister knows she is the beneficiary on all our life insurance policies should something happen to both of us (I told her since she gets my kids, she can either use the money to raise them or she can put it in bank accounts for them). We don't really have other assets, and I assume our families would take what they want and sell or donate the rest. But seems like we should probably have it formalized anyway! 

You rang? This is just general, and different states obv have different rules, but the general answer is you should absolutely have a will if you have kids or any major assets (home, bank account, etc.). They're super easy to set up, and in my neck of the woods you can get one done by a lawyer for about $400. They're mostly just filling in the details with the required legal jargon.

Many people these days are choosing to put their assets in family trusts. My parents' house is held in the name of the trust, as are their bank accounts, etc. I'm not positive if you can make a trust the beneficiary of a life insurance policy, but if you want to be absolutely sure that goes to take care of the kids, it would be worth looking into. In a trust you would want your kids to be the beneficiaries, and appoint a trustee (at least one trustee should usually be a legal or financial professional.) A trust is more expensive to set up just because it requires more work and specificity, but is usually worth it.

You also want to have your kids' guardianship put in writing in the will. You should have some alternate guardians if, heaven forbid, you, your spouse, and your sister all die/are incapacitated (sorry, setting these up require awkward answers to awkward questions).

Finally, you should both have Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care. That document sets forth what you want done if you cannot make medical decisions for yourself. They cover things like specifying if you want to be kept alive if you're in a permanent vegetative state, if there is no possibility of recovery do you want all artificial measures like a ventilator, or do you want, well, have the plug pulled. Basically you set those out in the Power of Attorney and appoint a person to implement those decisions. If that person declines or won't go along with your wishes, you need to have an alternate or two named. Every state has different requirements for the Power of Attorney for Health Care, but they are easy to do -- a matter of filling in some blanks. You can look online for a form applicable to your state. (Feel free to let me know if anyone would like help finding their state's requirements.) You should then make sure that your personal physician, your local hospital system where you're most likely to be treated, and your loved ones all have copies.

Oh, the conventional wisdom is you should start retirement savings with your first job -- putting money towards retirement in your twenties provides exponentially better return than starting in your 40s. A financial planner can help you define your retirement goals, risk tolerance, etc. You should have a will at the latest when your first child is born. But it is certainly not too late to put all those things in motion! (Please know I'm saying all of the above as a 48 year old lawyer with no will and no trust. Do better than I did!)

I hope that helps! 

Now, the reason I came here was to share the below, which is an article (with references) about how the more fundie you are, the MORE likely you are to divorce. Evangelical Christians have the highest divorce rate among any religious denomination.

https://www.jampole.com/blog/new-study-shows-that-right-wing-christian-values-lead-to-higher-rates-of-divorce/#:~:text=Christian fundamentalism leads to greater,rural folk and city slickers.&text=Yes%2C less educated people get,as fanatical about their Christianity.

and

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

Edited April 14, 2021 by xtwheeler
I forget stuff

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

At what age is it recommended you meet with a financial planner and start really planning for retirement? 

Also I know we have some lawyers on the board- are wills fairly easy to set up? What information do we need to start one? We meant to meet with an attorney to get one set up last summer but then the pandemic happened. 

My husband and I are both under 40, but should probably start planning for the future more than we have. I have a 401k at work that I've been putting a bit of money into each paycheck and he's a teacher so will have IPERS. We did get life insurance set up last year before the pandemic. 

We don't have a formal will, but everyone in our family is aware of who will get our children if something happens to both of us, and my sister knows she is the beneficiary on all our life insurance policies should something happen to both of us (I told her since she gets my kids, she can either use the money to raise them or she can put it in bank accounts for them). We don't really have other assets, and I assume our families would take what they want and sell or donate the rest. But seems like we should probably have it formalized anyway! 

You need to write it down, you need a will to name the guardian of your minor children. If you don't have it written down the STATE will decide who gets your children. Also without a will and other formal documents, it will be a PITA to even GET to your money in your checking/savings account, the cars, the house etc so that it can be used to care for your children. Write, it down. I have had a will since I was 19, I have revised it twice, I am now 35.

 

Okay I'm done being bossy. So sorry.

[crazycatlady58]

Well yesterday after my 2nd vaccine I felt ok so sore joints butI put that down to arthritis.  Today is another matter.  Low grade fever that Tylenol will not reduce ( which is not unusual for me I rarely have  fever but whenever I do Tylenol does nothing to reduce it) body and joint pain and where I received my shot is swollen and painful. This to shall pass and it is better than Covid. 

[Jenniferbug]

@xtwheeler that was really helpful! Thank you! I'll have to look into trusts and see if that's the best path for us. And thank you for reminding me about needing power of attorney for medical decisions too! That's another area where I've told all family to pull the plug, but having it legally binding is better.

@Scarlett45, not bossy- I asked for it! LOL I believe our state generally seeks out family and as both our sets of parents are elderly and my sister and her husband are well off and already experienced in parenting, I think they'd be the no brainer for the state. But we absolutely still need to have it legalized! 

[crazycatlady58]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

You need to write it down, you need a will to name the guardian of your minor children. If you don't have it written down the STATE will decide who gets your children. Also without a will and other formal documents, it will be a PITA to even GET to your money in your checking/savings account, the cars, the house etc so that it can be used to care for your children. Write, it down. I have had a will since I was 19, I have revised it twice, I am now 35.

 

Okay I'm done being bossy. So sorry.

When my grandmother died my aunt left the hospital immediately and withdraw all the money from her account.  It was not a money grab she needed to get the money out before the account was frozen so she would have money for the funeral. 

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

@xtwheeler that was really helpful! Thank you! I'll have to look into trusts and see if that's the best path for us. And thank you for reminding me about needing power of attorney for medical decisions too! That's another area where I've told all family to pull the plug, but having it legally binding is better.

@Scarlett45, not bossy- I asked for it! LOL I believe our state generally seeks out family and as both our sets of parents are elderly and my sister and her husband are well off and already experienced in parenting, I think they'd be the no brainer for the state. But we absolutely still need to have it legalized! 

Often the state does choose the people you would want, but would you want that extra administrative work on the people left behind and are grieving you when you are gone?

It is awful enough to lose someone you love (especially suddenly or tragically), but in the middle of your grief to have to fill out paper work, talk to judges, and deal with all of those tasks any more than necessary is a lot. 

I know I am sensitive because I just lost my godmother (who had no minor children) but she wrote everything down, and handed Cosmo to me while she was still able. I appreciate the effort she took to make things easier for us when she wouldnt be here any more-what ever other choices people happened to make.

 

Also- who will be the person to pull the plug? It might not be the person closest to you, it needs to be the person you feel has the fortitude and personality to do it. My godmother named my Mom, not just because she was an MD herself, because 1. she didnt want to put the emotional burden on her children, 2. she knew my mom couldn't be bullied, 3. she probably knew deep down inside her husband was going to go off the rails. 

3 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

When my grandmother died my aunt left the hospital immediately and withdraw all the money from her account.  It was not a money grab she needed to get the money out before the account was frozen so she would have money for the funeral. 

YUP, because without Pay on death, financial power of attorney forms, wills etc, to even get to the money in the checking account you have to wait for the death certificate and PROBATE. LAWDY. (unless you have the debit card on you and just clear it out once they are dead- which I am not recommending as a strategy fyi)

[xtwheeler]

1 minute ago, Jenniferbug said:

@xtwheeler that was really helpful! Thank you! I'll have to look into trusts and see if that's the best path for us. And thank you for reminding me about needing power of attorney for medical decisions too! That's another area where I've told all family to pull the plug, but having it legally binding is better.

@Scarlett45, not bossy- I asked for it! LOL I believe our state generally seeks out family and as both our sets of parents are elderly and my sister and her husband are well off and already experienced in parenting, I think they'd be the no brainer for the state. But we absolutely still need to have it legalized! 

I'm glad it was helpful! It is REALLY important to talk explicitly with your doctors, family, and loved ones about your desires, if nothing else, to determine if they're willing/able to carry out your wishes. Nobody wants to be blindsided in a moment of crisis and not be able to think it through, and do what they think you wanted. When I did mine, I knew my mom could be a plug-puller, but my dad absolutely could not. It is a good idea to revisit that conversation multiple times over the years, sucky as it is.

As for LTC, they all differ extraordinarily. My dad had to go to skilled nursing, and while they had LTC, I think the coverage only kicked in after 90 days in the facility, which was $60k+ up front before insurance kicked in (Medicare did at some point too). If you're not confident reading tons of legal jargon, it is a good idea to have any policy reviewed by your estate attorney. (One, an attorney has a fiduciary duty to protect your interests, a run of the mill accountant or insurance salesperson does not. A CPA will also have a fiduciary duty to protect your interests; and two, it should be factored into your retirement planning.

[CalicoKitty]

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

How was driving all these years? did you use the clip on things? Now that it is spring, I think "I should put my sunglasses on when I walk Cosmo", not having sunglasses to drive would be so uncomfortable for me. Maybe my eyes are sensitive? Or maybe its a midwest thing, because our land is so flat, the glare can be intense?

Or I am just a huge ass baby- this is very possible.

I wear progressives, and I have some very nice over-the-glasses sun glasses.  They are great, and very comfortable. I have several pairs so I always have sun glasses handy and don't have to worry about putting my glasses somewhere in the car and sitting on them.  I live at altitude, and the sun can be intense.  Sun reflecting off snow is bad, too.

[crazy8s]

31 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

I'm glad it was helpful! It is REALLY important to talk explicitly with your doctors, family, and loved ones about your desires, if nothing else, to determine if they're willing/able to carry out your wishes. Nobody wants to be blindsided in a moment of crisis and not be able to think it through, and do what they think you wanted. When I did mine, I knew my mom could be a plug-puller, but my dad absolutely could not. It is a good idea to revisit that conversation multiple times over the years, sucky as it is.

this is so true. my father in law had a DNR order with his doctors and was clear about end of life plans with his family. but when the end came and he was on life support none would make the decision. even though they knew his wishes. In the end they let me decide, I think they felt safe if a DIL made the decision and they could not be held responsible for the decision to let him die.

I had made the decision before with my grandparents. had met with father in laws drs. there was no hope and I knew his wishes. no one has ever held it against me - they all knew it was the right choice, they just didn't want to be the one to decide.

 

[DangerousMinds]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

Same! My lenses are so thick that I have actually had to be told that the frames I picked would not accommodate them. The glasses people are always nice about it, but it always makes me die of shame. Now I just tell them to help me pick something because I can't see what the frames look like when I'm trying them on, anyway. 

I was legally blind (without glasses or contacts) all of my life until this past summer when I had cataracts removed and permanent lenses put in during the same surgery. Before that, my glasses always had to me specially made and cost a fortune. 

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes they do!!!!! My Mom was like you and did not believe they could give her bifocal transitions (with no line because she is vain) etc etc inexpensively but they can. They don’t have physical retail costs and additional employees to sell the glasses so it’s so much cheaper. 

I’m pretty blind too- a (-6.5). I know not every frame works with every prescription. 

Lol I was at -15 before my surgeries.

[ozziemom]

Just wanted to say I agree, the most important thing is to write it down! And make sure people know where your will etc is. In crisis situations or while grieving, it can be extremely difficult to remember what someone’s wishes were. Plus there is nothing like a death to bring out the worst in people. I’m guessing we all have heard of people fighting over grandma’s jewelry or furniture or artwork, exclaiming that they knew what grandma really wanted. And even the smallest amount of money can cause a battle.

[Bewitched]

This Friday is actually National Healthcare Decisions Day and there will quite the information push about end of life decision making and the need to have it in writing.  One of my weird thoughts as an ICU nurse is that everyone should be required to fill out a medical advanced directive when they sign up for Medicare benefits.  So many of my patients and their families have never had a conversation and then are blindsided when they have to make decisions about life sustaining treatment in the middle of a crisis.  

Also, please understand that financial and medical power of attorney privileges are completely separate.  Even if you have financial POA for someone, you do not automatically have the ability to make end of life decisions.  Every state has different laws about decision making.  In VA if there is no written directive, the spouse is first decision maker, then adult children "equally", then parents, then siblings "equally".  That means that if children or siblings disagree, all decisions are on hold.  My employer has three ethicists on staff and much of their time is spent helping us parse out situations just like this. 

I lot of my nursing horror stories center around families changing a code status or flat out lying about the existence of advanced directives/living wills.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by Bewitched

[crazy8s]

23 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Just wanted to say I agree, the most important thing is to write it down! And make sure people know where your will etc is. In crisis situations or while grieving, it can be extremely difficult to remember what someone’s wishes were. Plus there is nothing like a death to bring out the worst in people. I’m guessing we all have heard of people fighting over grandma’s jewelry or furniture or artwork, exclaiming that they knew what grandma really wanted. And even the smallest amount of money can cause a battle.

I am executor for my dad and step mom if needed, Step mom warns what her kids (all in their 50s) will fight over is the Cutco knife set. I said I will let them have that fight. but damn in their 50s?? just buy your own damn cutco knives

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

When my grandmother died my aunt left the hospital immediately and withdraw all the money from her account.  It was not a money grab she needed to get the money out before the account was frozen so she would have money for the funeral. 

Yep, that is what we did when my father died. My sister and I went straight to the bank and withdrew a butt-ton(TM)  of money so my mother could live until everything was settled.

[jcbrown]

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have insanely sensitive eyes, and wear sunglasses even when it's overcast.

I find it is easier for me to make out lane markings when I'm driving in the rain if I wear shades. I have very light eyes so the light just bounces around and that is one factor to them being light sensitive, so sayeth my optometrist.

8 hours ago, CouchTater said:

The only crack in my armor might be a lack of long-term care planning that Medicare won't cover.  I received some recommendations around insurance and it's expensive!  So I'm still debating what to do about that.  Have any of you purchased and/or used any kind of long-term care insurance, and would be willing to share about it?

My dad has longterm care insurance and it has been a godsend in his case.  We looked into it for ourselves but it does not make financial sense. He would not have had the assets to pay for his care for this long without the LTC policy but our assets should suffice. It's really about your individual situation.

7 hours ago, Zella said:

Same! My lenses are so thick that I have actually had to be told that the frames I picked would not accommodate them. The glasses people are always nice about it, but it always makes me die of shame. Now I just tell them to help me pick something because I can't see what the frames look like when I'm trying them on, anyway. 

I could not see to pick out frames until I got contacts at age 19. My prescription was -13 in both eyes, and I always had to get small frames to help manage the distortion I got with a larger lens.

5 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Being single with no children might change the picture a bit.  Maybe your money for your care makes more sense.  I’m not sure what Medicare wouldn’t pay if you were in a nursing home???  They would use up all your assets then they would pay.  

Medicare will not pay for assisted living/memory care, though.

[iwantcookies]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

How can that be?  Prescription sunglasses are regular lenses with a tint added.  I've never heard of a prescription for glasses that couldn't be made into sunglasses.

They couldn’t make me transition lenses either. I tried online too it’s not happening.

[BetyBee]

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

I am executor for my dad and step mom if needed, Step mom warns what her kids (all in their 50s) will fight over is the Cutco knife set. I said I will let them have that fight. but damn in their 50s?? just buy your own damn cutco knives

So her kids will be having a knife fight after she's gone? 🤣

[crazy8s]

Just now, BetyBee said:

So her kids will be having a knife fight after she's gone? 🤣

apparently yes 🤣 🤣

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

this is so true. my father in law had a DNR order with his doctors and was clear about end of life plans with his family. but when the end came and he was on life support none would make the decision. even though they knew his wishes. In the end they let me decide, I think they felt safe if a DIL made the decision and they could not be held responsible for the decision to let him die.

I had made the decision before with my grandparents. had met with father in laws drs. there was no hope and I knew his wishes. no one has ever held it against me - they all knew it was the right choice, they just didn't want to be the one to decide.

 

I'm not the kind of doctor who works a lot with people at the end of life, but I agree, a DPA (durable power of attorney) for health care is absolutely essential.  If you're married, your spouse will be the one who makes these decisions for you if you are unable.  If you haven't had a heart to heart to talk about what you want, now is the hour.  Don't just hope you're on the same page.  Write it down and be specific.  Do you want a feeding tube if you cannot eat?  A tracheostomy if you need a ventilator long term?  Make sure to be as clear as possible.  BTW, pulling the plug does not mean withdrawing all treatment.  It can mean removing a ventilator if you cannot breathe for yourself and not doing CPR if your heart stops.  It doesn't mean that no pain meds will be given or that the nurses won't provide basic hygienic care.  You also need to decide if it means you don't want antibiotics if you get an infection, don't want surgery for treatable conditions, etc.  

Anyone who is single needs a DPA even if in a relationship.  If your partner is the one you want to make decisions, get it in writing.  When I did my original DPA 20+ years ago, I specifically didn't include my dad on the list of people responsible.  I knew he'd already done it for my mom and it would be emotionally too difficult for him.  I named my oldest sister as she and I are close and I felt she knew me well and what I would want.  I recently switched to my younger sister, because, at this point in my life, she knows me best.

I was DPA for one of my aunts.  She also named one of her sons, but he lived in another state, so I was closer.  And, as it turned out, the DPA was needed when she had a postop complication and it was clear that she was never going to be living independently again.  So, I went to the hospital and talked to the doctor and arranged to have her removed from a ventilator.  I did speak to my cousin who also spoke to his brothers and we all agreed; my aunt had made her wishes pretty clear.  So, two of my sisters and my brother in law and I stayed with her and held her hand and talked to here for the 10 minutes or so that she lived after the tube was removed.  

BTW, there have been multiple studies that have shown that medical pros, doctors and nurses, when faced with life threatening illnesses are far more likely to stop treatment and let nature take its course rather than try aggressive, painful therapies for diseases that are likely to be fatal.  Just a thought.

As far as wills go, my attorney and financial planner recommended taking photos of specific pieces of jewelry, etc that you want to go to specific people so there is no mistaking which pair of gold earrings or what painting is going where.  My planner told me that he and his wife not only took pictures, but wrote brief descriptions of where and when they got something and how much it cost as well as why it was special to them or why they want someone in particular to have it.  I am doing the same; I certainly would love to have that sort of info if I was to inherit something.

Edited April 15, 2021 by doodlebug

[Nysha]

My mom was on oxygen and pain-killers when she became unresponsive in the hospital. The doctor wanted to know if we wanted to intubate her, but she would have hated that so my dad said no. When it was obvious that she was in pain and the nurse overruled the doctor's verbal promise to us that she could have whatever it took to keep her pain free, I demanded to see the doctor. This nurse was a new one who hadn't seen her alert and cracking jokes the day before, but the doctor had and he upped her meds. I'm pretty sure he would have without my dad yelling at him for 15 minutes, too. She died about 45 minutes later. My niece was complaining that she died from being over-medicated, which was probably true, but that was better than slowly suffocating. 

[iwantcookies]

2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I am executor for my dad and step mom if needed, Step mom warns what her kids (all in their 50s) will fight over is the Cutco knife set. I said I will let them have that fight. but damn in their 50s?? just buy your own damn cutco knives

I just looked them up $1000 or more 

Wow

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

As far as wills go, my attorney and financial planner recommended taking photos of specific pieces of jewelry, etc that you want to go to specific people so there is no mistaking which pair of gold earrings or what painting is going where.  My planner told me that he and his wife not only took pictures, but wrote brief descriptions of where and when they got something and how much it cost as well as why it was special to them or why they want someone in particular to have it.  I am doing the same; I certainly would love to have that sort of info if I was to inherit something.

Oh man, I'm SO wishing my late friend had done that. I'm executor of her will. Which says the personal property will be distributed according to a separate written document she's left - but she never got around to writing anything down. Although when she signed her will, the lawyer who wrote it gave her multiple blank documents she could have used to do that - but she never did. If there's no such writing (and there's not), under the will that distribution is going to be - not necessarily simple. Sigh.

[CouchTater]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Please take the time and spell out your wishes.  If you want your stuff to go to a number of people,  put it in writing.   Naming the oldest and hoping he/she shares is a recipe for trouble. 

OhioPirate02, I just wanted to let you know that your comment spurred me to action.  I was really procrastinating about who to name as beneficiaries for my life insurance and investment plans.  I  decided tonight and have reached out to everyone to gather needed info from them, and to let them know of my plans.  I also plan to send each person written documentation of all my decisions once I've made them all.  I still have other major decisions to make, but beneficiaries is a start!

I've really enjoyed and learned so much from today's discussion on long-term planning, power of attorney, etc.  This really is a unique and wonderful board full of wise, wonderful, funny and kind women.  I appreciate all of you.  Thank you much!

[SunnyBeBe]

I’d be very proactive in consulting with an attorney who specializes in Estate Planning.  They can review your assets and make recommendations that can really help.  I’d also consider potential issues like if anyone in the family might need Medicaid ( serious illness, disability, dementia).  There are income and asset limits that can disqualify you.  There are legal ways to plan for such events.  Memory Care and nursing homes can be very expensive. They can also discuss tax consequences and practical tips regarding the selection of your beneficiaries and wishes for your end of life care.  
 

I think this is a great idea.  They are providing in-home covid vaccines for those who are not mobile. 
https://abc11.com/health/homebound-durham-pharmacy-will-bring-covid-19-vaccine-to-you/10514927/

Edited April 15, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[marypat57]

12 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

“My daddy drinks bourbon.”

- one of my tiny humans this morning. 

😂😂🤣🥃

Oh, @QuinnInND, the things those tiny humans say😂😂! My favorite tiny human story came from my first year of teaching, many moons ago.  One of my cute little girls came to me one morning and said “Guess what?  My daddy and I slept over at D..’s house last night !”(D was a little boy in our class).  Of course, I had to ask “Where did everyone sleep?”  Apparently, T and her dad “slept on the couch.”  
I did not ask if her dad slept on the couch with her the whole night............

[marypat57]

I’d just like to add my two cents worth to the chat about sunglasses..

For many years, I wore just-for-reading glasses, but as I began working, I needed bifocals.  I picked the progressive lens, because I did not want to look like an old lady.  I even splurged and got prescription (non progressive)sunglasses.  
One day, as my friend and I were crossing 2nd Ave in Manhattan, one of the lenses popped out and landed in the middle of 2nd Ave, where it was promptly run over by a yellow taxi.  I was able to pick up the lens and put it back in the frame.  It was barely scratched!  
 

 

[Absolom]

Reading the stories of adult children who don't communicate, I kind of had the reverse.  My step-father could dish out anger and temper tantrums, but a little plain speaking from me convinced him I hated him.  Something like he would sit at the dining table (a la Matt Roloff) while I was cooking, listening to piano practice, and supervising homework and ask me to get him a glass of ice water.  I would look him in the eye and go I'm a bit busy right now why don't you get it yourself?  Man would sit there until my mother came in and whine to her that I refused to get him a drink.  He also hated my husband.  Long story short they cut me out of their wills and the money was to go into trust for my children when they died. They wanted to make sure my husband could never get a dime of their money.  Fair enough.

My husband pre-deceased them and they still refused to change their wills.  Fine I have enough and it was their money.  Then we get to the irony.  I'm an only child.  His daughter is either dead or cut and run when she heard he had cancer.  Her phone worked when my mother left the message and two days later was no longer in service.   A year or so later, I asked step-dad who he wanted to handle his affairs one of his sisters or one of my kids.  He said you of course.  I was are you sure?  He said yes you're the only one I know who'll make people do exactly as I want.  So I was put on all their accounts and given power of attorney and all the other paperwork.  So I guess I kind of get the last laugh as by the time step-dad died, everything they had was jointly in my name and when mom goes if there is anything left, it's automatically mine.  So the best laid plans need to be monitored and updated.  

[Absolom]

22 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm happy Costco worked out for you!  They also have a wonderful eyeglass department with designer frames.

Thanks for the reminder.  I need new glasses after I finally get myself to the opthalmologist.  That's my remaining pandemic skipped stop.  I keep forgetting I can do the glasses at Costco.

[Absolom]

13 hours ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

I got my first pair of rx sunglasses this year after being in glasses for over 25yrs, I felt privileged 😂😂. I thought it was a special thing and did not realize it was normal for some people until just now! 

I've worn glasses since I was nine and began getting prescription sunglasses at around 20 when I started paying for my own glasses.  My mother told me for over 20 years it was a ridiculous expense until she had to start wearing glasses to drive.  She converted overnight and apologized.  

[Absolom]

11 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I can’t even get prescription sunglasses my eyes are that bad 🤣🤣🤣. Blind as a bat! 

If I can get prescription sunglasses, anyone can.   They may have to be specially ground, but they'll make them and charge for the labor.  You don't want to know how much my glasses cost.  

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Most of those I know in nursing homes are Alzheimer’s patients so that’s what they’re screening for. 

I'll weigh in with in Arkansas skilled nursing care was around $4500 a month.  Medicare only covers about 60 or 90 days if you're in rehab after a hospital stay of at least 2 days.  I think it's 60 days, but my stepdad got an extension somehow?  Then it's out of pocket.  Medicaid is the one that will pay after almost all assets are gone or tied up in specific trusts.  In California the same level of care is around $8000 a month.  That's for an average type facility.  Memory care for dementia/Alzheimers is $5000 to $10000 a month in Southern California.  At least that's the charge at any of the places I would allow my mother to go.  There are some cheaper ones, but I don't think any of us want to be laying in bed in soaked Depends.  

 

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You need to write it down, you need a will to name the guardian of your minor children. If you don't have it written down the STATE will decide who gets your children. Also without a will and other formal documents, it will be a PITA to even GET to your money in your checking/savings account, the cars, the house etc so that it can be used to care for your children. Write, it down. I have had a will since I was 19, I have revised it twice, I am now 35.

Please do that and put everything in the name of both spouses.  My step-father was old fashioned and well some of the people in Arkansas were less than diligent.  He died and things like the house insurance were only in his name.  There was a hail storm the week he died and I went through more BS nonsense than any person should have to know exists to get the roof on their house replaced.  There were a couple of checks issued to him also as a result of things being in one name that took great persistence to get resissued 

 

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also- who will be the person to pull the plug? It might not be the person closest to you, it needs to be the person you feel has the fortitude and personality to do it. My godmother named my Mom, not just because she was an MD herself, because 1. she didnt want to put the emotional burden on her children, 2. she knew my mom couldn't be bullied, 3. she probably knew deep down inside her husband was going to go off the rails. 

This is all very important.  I'm the person who is stuck with it in our family because I'm one of the most stubborn people around.  And I will follow the person's wishes no matter what I think.  My responses to what do you want to do go along the lines of that doesn't matter, Mr. xxxx does not want any extraordinary measures.  He wants to depart peacefully and not in pain.  

A good 30 people had to watch as the MIL of one of my kids kept her husband on life support for 3 weeks after he begged to be allowed to die.  He managed to get off the vent and told her and the doctors not to put him back on it.  Some time later that night a new doctor came on shift, called her, and she had him put back on the vent.  He had absolutely no chance of recovery and she made him linger for weeks.  It was horrifying.  

I really applaud your godmother was making all the arrangements that she did and especially for placing Cosmo herself and finding such an exceptional home for him.  

 

[Zella]

24 minutes ago, Absolom said:

A good 30 people had to watch as the MIL of one of my kids kept her husband on life support for 3 weeks after he begged to be allowed to die.  He managed to get off the vent and told her and the doctors not to put him back on it.  Some time later that night a new doctor came on shift, called her, and she had him put back on the vent.  He had absolutely no chance of recovery and she made him linger for weeks.  It was horrifying.  

Ugh that is horrible. This can happen with funerals, too, unfortunately. I've mentioned on here a couple of times a really bad wreck that killed my uncle and severely injured his wife. He laid at the funeral home for 3 goddamn weeks because his daughter and his wife could not make up their minds about what he would have wanted, and even then, he only got buried after a serious come-to-Jesus talk with them. I have no clue how long he would have remained unburied if my grandmother and I hadn't staged an intervention.

And to be fair to them, they were under extreme emotional duress and his wife was in an ICU with life-threatening injuries and there were some family estrangements and interfering family friends adding extra issues, but it became ridiculous. 10-12 family members traveled from out of state to Arkansas for a funeral that they still missed because their time off expired before a decision was made. If there had been arrangements already made, none of this would have been an issue. Or even if someone who had the power to make decisions had been more decisive.

Ultimately, he got the funeral that I think he would have wanted. He was a very proud retired Navy vet, and he got a Navy funeral. He was a very devout Catholic, and he got a funeral mass conducted by his favorite priest. I'm not mad at anyone over it because there was nobody really at fault, but I am still angry it turned into such an ordeal because it didn't have to. It should not have been as hard to arrange as it was. 

I guess my bit of advice to the board is when you are doing end of life planning, include funeral planning, and make sure people know where you have made arrangements. You can actually work with a funeral home to have your plan on file and to have everything paid for, so nobody has to try to guess what you would have wanted while they are distressed and bereaved. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Zella

[Llywela]

I don't really go here (hi, I lurk a lot) but just wanted to chip in to reiterate all the calls to get affairs in order in case of the worst. My cousin died earlier this year, leaving a wife and three young children. They had known he was dying for over a year (lung cancer) but he couldn't face up to his mortality and therefore didn't make all the arrangements he should have, with the result that after his death his wife wasn't able to access his bank accounts for several weeks and my aunt had to give her money to buy food in the interim. Where there are children involved it is especially important to plan ahead.

[ozziemom]

Also in some states you can prepay for your funeral, choosing exactly what you want. These prepaid expenses are allowed by Medicaid, which can be vital if nursing home care uses up all your other assets.

[ginger90]

When my father passed, money issues were not involved because everything was jointly owned. Funeral arrangements however, were not made in advance. We, my mother, myself, and my sister, went with my mother to the same funeral home about a month later because my mother didn’t want us to have to do it for her. When she passed, the input we had was when the services would be, the repast arrangements, and that’s about it. My sister was  executrix. While my mother was in ICU, my sister handled any bills that came in. She was joint owner of many accounts. She did a great job during that time, and after my mother passed. She had color coded files and all. Life insurance was paid out quickly, etc.. What took the longest was cleaning out the house to sell. We contacted members of the family that were in circumstances that would suggest they could use many of the household items. Everything was split 50/50 between us, with her receiving an extra percentage for having been  executrix. 
Hurricane Sandy happened while she was in ICU, basically terminal. Friends of the family lost their house. We decided to offer them my mother’s house while they regrouped and rebuilt, or bought a house. My mother would have done that if she was still living in the house, so that was one thing we felt good about at the time.