S01.E09: Harvey Dent

[Tara Ariano]

Selina leads a new friend on a dangerous journey through Gotham to evade assassins on her trail. Meanwhile, Gordon is reassigned to duty at Arkham Asylum.

[Danielg342]

No Bullock? *sad panda*

[Syndicate]

Is the camera showing Harvey Dent's face being part light and part dark supposed to be obviously suggestive?  I think so!  I don't know that I like the teen impending lovefest/fuckfest of Bruce and Catgal.  Just not interested when the show has so much adult-fare it can drive story with.  What's up with the lilacs mentioning?  Is it supposed to be a Louie the Lilac reference?

Edited November 18, 2014 by Syndicate

[Syndicate]

Barbara and Renee you naughty bitches.  LOL!

[opus]

Catwoman + Wayne Manor = Gold

[nilyank]

I have shipped shipped Bruce/Batman and Selina/Catwoman since I first saw them on the original tv show. Today's episode made me smile so hard, my face hurt but I don't care. I loved every scene between the kids.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Lesbian sex!  Barbara disappeared for an entire episode only to reappear in bed with Renee.  I don't think I have ever found her more interesting,

 

Bruce and Selina were made of win.  I enjoyed all their scenes together.  Part awkward romance part brother/sister shenanigans. 

 

Why am I not surprised that Ed Nygma played video games?  My only question is what kind of video games:  RPG,  Shootem up?  Super Mario Brothers, Pong?  And seriously he should go on Jeapardy and screw becoming a super villain.

 

Harvy Dent!

 

Arkham is open for business!  Bring on the super freaks!

Edited November 18, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[SimoneS]

I love Alfred and Bruce's dysfunctional relationship. It was funny and sweet when Alfred and Bruce were boxing, then Alfred said that he did not know that Bruce fancied Selina. Also, the expression on Alfred's face as he watched Bruce act like a kid, playing with Selina was heartbreaking. He loves Bruce so much, but does not know how to help him. Next week, looks damn good with Alfred in badass mode.

 

Well, it did not take Barbara long to go back to Montoya. Does this mean that Jim and Sarah Essen will be having their own little assignations?

 

Fish keeps playing with fire. Now Oswald is onto her, it will not end well for her, Butch or that young girl.

 

Harvey Dent was okay. I am waiting to see what they do with him.

Edited November 18, 2014 by SimoneS

[Raachel2008]

It is official, Erin Richards sucks the soul out of all her scenes. Very little chemistry with Ben McKenzie and even less with Victoria Cartagena (who is so bad it hurts), because that last scene was one of the flattest kiss/sex scenes I've ever seen. Morena Baccarin can't join this show soon enough for me.

 

I'm on the fence on the whole Bruce/Selina thing. I'm not looking forward for teenage love drama, and in this case I really wish they would stay as good friends. Both can use one, and Bruce/Selena/Arthur has some much gold potential.

 

Where is Bullock! 

 

Eh, this is Harvey? Okaaay, then.

 

Arkhaaaaaam. Oh, yes.

[SoSueMe]

I'm no Batman expert but I am loving this show. Learning as I go. And it is so beautifully filmed, even though it's got to be computer generated, it's gorgeous!

[janeta]

-scratching head- I can understand Bruce trying to learn to hold his breath, but did he have to do it fully dressed? (Did i miss something? I was channel hopping...)

[Atony]

The writing for Barbara is terrible.  I can't handle this and I need space...so I am going to run into bed with someone who does the same job and who is fighting against the exact same enemies.

 

WTF are the writers doing with this character?

Edited November 18, 2014 by Atony

[Lantern7]

Putting up Selina at Stately Wayne Manor . . . bad idea, or the worst idea? I'm thinking "bad idea," since this is Gotham City, home of the judgmental lapse. What saves it is the rapport between the actors playing Bruce and Selina, with Sean Pertwee thrown in for good measure. Makes up for Bruce being a little too weird (not intense, not yet) about his future. And I wasn't titillated by Selina's flirting, because these are kids we're talking about. Now . .  Barbara back in bed with Renee? I cheered. As a guy, I must be a very cheap date.

 

Seriously, setting up Selina isn't as bad an idea as Arkham being propped up for the "criminally insane." Or Harvey Dent's machinations. BTW, as a fan of B:TAS, I'm taking Harvey's outbursts and calling it "Big Bad Harv." Mentally, I giggle remembering the original "Two-Face" arc, because "Big Bad Harv" is such a porn-y nickname for a repressed alter ego. At least this Harvey isn't as big of a boob as his counterpart in Beware The Batman. Or are we always to forget that?

 

(ETA while I'm thinking about B:TAS: does anybody else expect to hear the wooshing sound anytime Harvey tosses his coin? Or is it me?)

 

Hi, Oswald! Way to be creepy as always. In other news, I laughed hearing "The Final Countdown" as a ringtone for the bomb. Anybody else want to promote Butch to full-time player for that alone?

 

Hi, Eddie! I know he's creepy, but I want one of the detectives to pat him on the head, just because he does a good job.

 

One more episode before hiatus? Darn. When would the show come back?

[monocles]

If you had told me two months ago that this show would have a scene that involved Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle engaging in a giggly pastry fight, I would have run away screaming, but that was shockingly not horrible and kind of cute.

[Trini]

The writing for Barbara is terrible.  I can't handle this and I need space...so I am going to run into bed with someone who does the same job and who is fighting against the exact same enemies.

Eh... she has a type?

[mtlchick]

Foooood fiiiiiiight!  I was thinking all the expensive vases getting smashed but at least for once Bruce was a kid again, which is what he needed to balance his accelerated adulthood. 

 

As for the final scene, it would have been a bit more hot if you know, those two generated some heat.  Every time they're together, they leave me cold.  That scene?  Frigid.  

 

I'm still not sure what game Fish is playing but it's not going to end well.  Oswald is a lot smarter than anyone gives him credit for. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Oh Barbara, I just can't with you girl.

[thuganomics85]

Well, this certainly is new: I don't think any version of Batman has ever had Selina stay at the Wayne Manor, during her childhood.  And getting into a food fight, while Alfred looks on with a mixture of "No, the damages!" and "Well, at least Master Bruce is acting like a normal kid, even if it's with a shifty street kid."  It was kind of silly, but I was amused.

 

Ha, wow, Barbara didn't skip town, but just hopped into Montoya's bed.  Despite the fact that Montoya is basically going after the same people Gordon is, so she's still is in danger.  They really have given up on making her likable, huh?  Also, good to know that Montoya apparently feels no guilt over falsely accusing Gordon, and is more then willing to participate in this affair (unless Barbara lied and told them they are officially over.)  I would say that Gordon deserves better, but since I already know Morena Baccarin is coming down the pipeline, I can safely say Gordon will be, in fact, getting a more deserving love interest. 

 

Young Harvey Dent has arrived.  He was... OK, I guess.  But some of his dialogue was really hokey (that scene with the kid in front of the courtroom.)

 

Cool seeing Leslie Odom Jr. as the bomber.  Still remember from Person of Interest.

 

So, Fish successfully bombs a lot of Falcone's money sky high.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that Oswald totally knows the deal with the mole, and will no doubt use this to his advantage.  And we know whose side history/ the comics are on this battle.

 

Not much Bullock for this one, but that's OK.  Nygma is still cracking me up.  Besides him getting on Bullock's nerves, I really cracked up at Gordon's "Ed!"  You could just tell Gordon was like "Boundaries, Nygma!  Boundaries!"  And, of course he's a gamer, because he has to have all the loner cliches (I swear, I play video games and I'm not anything like Nygma!)

 

Arkham Asylum!  Are we going to get a Young Hugo Strange, soon?!

[Actionmage]

Cool seeing Leslie Odom Jr. as the bomber.  Still remember from Person of Interest.

 

Thank you! I knew I knew that face from somewhere!

 

 

I'm taking Harvey's outbursts and calling it "Big Bad Harv."

 

Well, he was going up against a guy that is named Lovecraft. You have to establish why Harvey breaks the way he does. I am just not trusting Dent, not because of his temper or his potential future. It's the way he thinks there aren't going to be problems with any portion of his plan. Plus, he seems to like feeling that he is getting over the criminal element. All well and good, but as per the previews, it doesn't gel with reality.

 

Speaking of the preview: it's time for the midseason break already? Aww! Can't they tell us a couple more?

[MisterGlass]

This one jumped around too much for me, and felt very much like the preamble to next week rather than its own episode.  There were some good moments, though.

 

I feel like Bullock is going to be hurt when he finds out Jim is keeping this investigation from him.  He's being so dedicated and sympathetic - in his own Harvey way.  He's even being nice (ish) to Ed.

 

It's going to get complicated with two Harveys and three faces between them.  Lantern7, I was also reminded of B:TAS with this Harvey Dent.  I can believe that with their spotty record thus far Montoya and Allen think this clearly unbalanced lawyer is trustworthy.

 

I wasn't sure about the Wayne Manor scenes, but it is an interesting dynamic.  I'm not sure how much longer Bruce is going to be able to push Alfred into following commands.  Alfred pushed back against him several times in this episode, literally and metaphorically, and he was very direct with Bruce and Selina.  I liked that he didn't pretend to be more welcoming to Selina than he was, because I doubt that she's the sort of person who responds well to false expressions of good will.

 

The scene with Gordon, Bullock, the mayor, and Essen was tense, and a suitable follow up to the secret kidnapping.

 

What is it with the creepy male characters sniffing female characters? 

[NorthstarATL]

Back when Smallville had Lois move into the Kent Farm years before she would meet him in the comics, it bugged me, but this show being less a prequel than a alternative telling of the Gotham City story, I was happy enough with selina moving into the Manor. They play well together, and, of course, the characters would engage in the same cat and mouse for decades to come.

  Interesting that Barbara should be the two-faced character in an episode featuring the debut of Harvey Dent.

[opus]

In the comics, Bruce and Harvey are about the same age ,no, so this is a slight change.

[Winnief]

Personally I wonder if one reason Barbara Kean's so awful is to make Sarah Essen look better-right down to the fact that she's being played by a much, MUCH better actress.  Barbara only *seems* like a catch because she's rich and more stereotypically "hot" by Hollywood standards.  Of course the problem is that it's impossible to see how she ever gave birth to Babs one of the most brilliant, most badass, and most beloved heroines in comic books.  I'm just hoping they'll write her out soon and explain she was already pregnant when she left Jim.

 

Fun yet sad to see Bruce being a kid just this once-and realizing that's the first time on this show I've ever seen him smile.

 

At this rate it's hard to see how Fish or Falcone could survive the season against Penguin. 

 

And Arkham is born.  God save us all.

 

Do love the burgeoning Bullock/Gordon friendship. 

[shapeshifter]

If you had told me two months ago that this show would have a scene that involved Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle engaging in a giggly pastry fight, I would have run away screaming, but that was shockingly not horrible and kind of cute.

Primarily thanks to Alfred.

I too was sure Chekhov's 500-year-old vase was going to break, until I saw Alfred smile.

Strong episode.

[Hook75]

Nygma is my favorite. Bullock is second.

 

I hope Barbara dies soon, she is so useless and anything with her is boring.

[benteen]

Very good episode.  Loved the Bruce and Alfred stuff and the Bruce and Selina stuff.  Glad it resulted in Bruce acting normal for a change.  Nice to see Leslie Odom Jr. again.

 

Yeah, Barbara going back to Montoya doesn't speak highly to her (or Montoya since she's now working with Jim) but yeah, that scene was hot.

 

As for Harvey Dent's portrayal, it would be nice if he writers would learn some subtlety.

Edited November 18, 2014 by benteen

[ban1o]

Liked the episode. Like the friendship developing between Bruce and Selina. It was well done. I like Harvey Dent but again the writers are so not subtle. 

 

And yeah at this point I don't think Barbara is supposed to be a liked character. 

[immortalfrieza]

I love Alfred and Bruce's dysfunctional relationship. It was funny and sweet when Alfred and Bruce were boxing, then Alfred said that he did not know that Bruce fancied Selina. Also, the expression on Alfred's face as he watched Bruce act like a kid, playing with Selina was heartbreaking. He loves Bruce so much, but does not know how to help him.

Heartbreaking? I get the opposite feeling. Alfred is clearly hogtied by both by his respect for the Waynes' last wishes and his own sense of duty, but here he sees that having Selina around is good for Bruce, even if she's obviously shady and disobedient. This is the first time Bruce actually acts like a kid since the pilot and Alfred recognizes this.

BTW, as a fan of B:TAS, I'm taking Harvey's outbursts and calling it "Big Bad Harv." Mentally, I giggle remembering the original "Two-Face" arc, because "Big Bad Harv" is such a porn-y nickname for a repressed alter ego. At least this Harvey isn't as big of a boob as his counterpart in Beware The Batman. Or are we always to forget that?

 

(ETA while I'm thinking about B:TAS: does anybody else expect to hear the wooshing sound anytime Harvey tosses his coin? Or is it me?)

When Harvey started shouting at that guy, I definitely started to get BTAS flashbacks. In particular:

 

Harvey: There's just one problem.

Thorne: What's that?

Big Bad Harv: You're talking to the wrong Harvey!

 

The actor definitely seems to be channeling that portrayal.

 

In other news, I laughed hearing "The Final Countdown" as a ringtone for the bomb. Anybody else want to promote Butch to full-time player for that alone?

That was incredibly fitting, I mean, what else would work better as a ringtone for a bomb?

[Latverian Diplomat]

If only there had been a batarang-esque croissant on the table, Bruce might have gotten that kiss. :-)

 

ETA: I also liked the "You've got to mean" conversation. I've always liked the idea of Bruce piecing together his preparation for and ideas about Batman from a variety of different sources and influences. Nice to have the "criminal element" pitch in with some early formative advice.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[loki567]

Bruce and Selina were cute, but everything else? Meh. The case of the week was completely forgettable (and I mean that literally. Just watched it and can't remember anything past it had something to do with bombs.) The show's still subtle as a sledgehammer when it comes to the Batman references and they already pushed Harvey way to far on the slippery slope to Two-Faceville.

 

At least Barbara might have gotten some time for retooling and suffering shock over her kidnapping could be a good way to build sympathy from the audie... and they just undercut it for a cheap girl-girl scene. Poor Erin Richards, this is the most thankless role since Laurel Lance. I think that could have been an interesting character here if the writers can could give her anything outside of Gordon's love interest. 

[Agent Dark]

-scratching head- I can understand Bruce trying to learn to hold his breath, but did he have to do it fully dressed? (Did i miss something? I was channel hopping...)

Batman doesn't fight crime in his Speedos....

[Malbec]

Oof.  Yeah, the writing for Barbara is terrible.  I actually yelled at the TV when her note said she was leaving town -- why couldn't she have had that attitude a couple of episodes ago when she stupidly came BACK into town to negotiate with Evil McMobster?  It also kind of breaks my heart how chemistry-free her relationship with Renee is, because normally I would be shipping that like it's my job.

 

Harvey Dent was interesting.  I like the idea that there was something "off" about him from the start, but they overplayed his crazy just a bit too much.  I thought the actor was actually way more effective in the "nice Harvey" scenes at suggesting there was something forced and aggressive about his charm.

 

I liked the bomber plot.  I actually felt a little bad for the guy.

[darkestboy]

Better than last week but I don't know if the episode justified being named after Dent seeing as he was only in about four scenes altogther.

While I do think they could've held the character off until the second half of the season, Harvey has potential and there was a good rapport with him, Gordon, Renee and Crispus in this episode.

It was also nice that we got a glimmer of his dark side during his dealings with LoveCraft as well, even if they went a little overbaord with the Two Face symbolism at times.

The bomber plot was interesting but mainly because of the end result with Arkham. Personally, I don't think this episode actually needed Fish.

Oswald figuring out that Liza was working for Fish wasn't really clever but it's nice to see him continuing to gain something of an upper hand.

The Bruce and Selina scenes (with/without Alfred) were brilliant. Great rapport with the two of them.

Barbara and Renee, I knew it was coming but I thought it would be later in the season though, 8/10

[RealityGal]

 Today's episode made me smile so hard, my face hurt but I don't care. I loved every scene between the kids.

 

I did too.  I think they are too cute together.  

 

Lesbian sex!  Barbara disappeared for an entire episode only to reappear in bed with Renee.  I don't think I have ever found her more interesting,

 

Ugh, this only means that a) Barbara is coming back to Gotham instead of staying away, b) she is going to be the damsel in distress in the middle of a love triange and c) when she does something stupid there are going to be two characters devoting to saving her from herself

 

-scratching head- I can understand Bruce trying to learn to hold his breath, but did he have to do it fully dressed? (Did i miss something? I was channel hopping...)

That kid does everything in khaki's, button down shirt and maybe a sweater vest.  Its like his little uniform.  He was boxing in it, he was underwater in it.  He must have closets full of that little outfit in every color.  I think its cute, because he is so unlike a normal child.

[Syndicate]

I seem to be the only one who didn't care for the Bruce/Selina kiddie antics.  Not only did it feel out of place, but for me, it represented everything that I DO NOT want to see in this show:  Kiddie romance!  I thought they took up more airtime than they should have.  I guess the writers are making this show such an odd mix so that it caters to everyone.  We've got kiddies Bruce and Selina in one scene, and lesbian lovers Barbara and Renee in the next.

[Enigma X]

I really liked the episode. I liked Bruce and Selina and did not mind their budding friendship (whether it will eventually turn into a romance or not). I also did not think just because there are kids on the show being kids, that this show is nowhere near becoming a "kid's show." It worked for me, a lot.

[Syndicate]

I really liked the episode. I liked Bruce and Selina and did not mind their budding friendship (whether it will eventually turn into a romance or not). I also did not think just because there are kids on the show being kids, that this show is nowhere near becoming a "kid's show." It worked for me, a lot.

I still don't trust the kiddies' overwhelming presence in this show.  There's plenty of time and space to morph this show in their direction if the writers want to.  That's just my take!

[Primetimer]

What are three things that get more screen time than the character for whom this episode is named?

Read the story

[Jediknight]

I have shipped shipped Bruce/Batman and Selina/Catwoman since I first saw them on the original tv show. Today's episode made me smile so hard, my face hurt but I don't care. I loved every scene between the kids.

 

Just wait till Talia shows up.

BTW, as a fan of B:TAS, I'm taking Harvey's outbursts and calling it "Big Bad Harv." Mentally, I giggle remembering the original "Two-Face" arc, because "Big Bad Harv" is such a porn-y nickname for a repressed alter ego. At least this Harvey isn't as big of a boob as his counterpart in Beware The Batman. Or are we always to forget that?

If you're going to borrow, borrow from the best.

[tv echo]

Selina leads a new friend on a dangerous journey through Gotham to evade assassins on her trail. Meanwhile, Gordon is reassigned to duty at Arkham Asylum.

This episode description is for next week's Episode 10 ("Lovecraft").

 

This was not the best Gotham episode, but it had some nice scenes.  I liked Gordon and Bullock working together to solve the latest crime.  I liked the Bruce and Selina scenes.  And I thought Penguin was great - much better than Fish Mooney, whose scenes often seem like they belong on a different show.

 

I didn't like Harvey Dent.  I guess they're going for the villain version rather than the good guy version.  He immediately comes off as a slick politician.  I can't believe Montoya and Allen would trust Dent - but then they've been wrong about people before.  Gordon trusts Dent only reluctantly because he feels he has no other way of making progress on the investigation into the Waynes' murders.  But you just know he's going to regret it.  Dent's sudden rage was supposed to be a foreshadowing of his Jekyll and Hyde personality (his "two faces"),  I guess.

 

Barbara's departure and her surprisingly self-aware note about how scared, weak and needy she is, and how she has to leave town in order to get herself together - many of the reasons why she's such an unpopular character - actually made me like her character for once.  Then the ending scene showing her in bed with Montoya made me despise her again for being a lying, cheating girlfriend.  Barbara is rich and could've stayed holed up in a hotel.  But apparently she can't even stay by herself for a day and has to hole up with someone who will protect her.  Gordon deserves better, and I hope he dumps her.

Edited November 18, 2014 by tv echo

[joeyjoey]

I want Barbara dead.  Jim doesn't deserve this.

[RandomWatcher]

Bruce holding his breath underwater could help him in future dealings with Aquaman?

Bruce throwing food at Selina could help him in future batarang throwing?

[swimmyfish]

In other news, I laughed hearing "The Final Countdown" as a ringtone for the bomb. Anybody else want to promote Butch to full-time player for that alone?

 

I laughed at that too. That ringtone is the type of thing that keeps me watching - the little reminders that this is a comic book show, and it doesn't have to be super-serious all the time. 

 

Also, I have to say that I really like Ed Nygma. Sure, he's a little irritating, but the actor's portrayal makes him very likable. By the end of the episode, especially after how he lit up when Bullock told him he did a good job, I was legitimately sad that this guy is going to grow up into the Riddler.

[mtlchick]

 

By the end of the episode, especially after how he lit up when Bullock told him he did a good job, I was legitimately sad that this guy is going to grow up into the Riddler.

 

While it's been a long while since I watched Batman Forever (and why would i need to now?) but that did remind me of Jim Carrey's version that both Edwards are sort of desperate in seeking approval from men they admire.  (Bruce in the movie, Gordon and Bullock here.)

[Milz]

Barbara is one of the dumbest and shallowest character ever on tv . Period. Please, please, please, kill her off.  In fact, in this Batman version, it would be best if Barbara Keane is killed off. And Jim Gordon and his new squeeze name their baby girl, Barbara, after her. 

[Lokiberry]

Barbara is one of the dumbest and shallowest character ever on tv . Period. Please, please, please, kill her off.  In fact, in this Batman version, it would be best if Barbara Keane is killed off. And Jim Gordon and his new squeeze name their baby girl, Barbara, after her. 

They could just find an orphan, ala Catween, named Barbara, and I'd be cool with that.

[RealityGal]

Bruce holding his breath underwater could help him in future dealings with Aquaman?

Bruce throwing food at Selina could help him in future batarang throwing?

I just want to know when we're getting to the story behind the Bat Dance

[EricJ]

2 things:

1) Lovecraft! is behind Arkham!? that's like a fanservice single-entendre.

2) It looks like someone told the prop guy to make a police-artist's sketch of Joe Chill, and he heard "Jonah Hill."

[Milz]

They could just find an orphan, ala Catween, named Barbara, and I'd be cool with that.

 

I'd be okay with that. As long as 50% of Batgirl's DNA doesn't come from stoopid Barbara Keane....

I just want to know when we're getting to the story behind the Bat Dance

 

Shirley you mean the "Batusi"

2 things:

1) Lovecraft! is behind Arkham!? that's like a fanservice single-entendre.

2) It looks like someone told the prop guy to make a police-artist's sketch of Joe Chill, and he heard "Jonah Hill."

 

Well, the alternative was the prop guy thought he heard "Joe Cool" and the sketch looked more like Snoopy

[AConspiracy]

At least Barbara's handwritten note had a properly formed cursive capital letter Z. Color me impressed, prop department!