S04.E08: Smash The Mirror Pt 1 / S04.E09: Smash The Mirror Pt 2

[InsertWordHere]

Never saw "General Hospital", I take it.  :)

Ew ew ew. As gross as that coupling was, at least they had the good sense to do it over the freshly laid bones of their enemy, not one of their fathers (it was just the father of one of their children, but that's a long story).

 

Ooohh. That's what y'all meant by "4B" with regard to wanting to see alt/many universes in 4B. I thought it was a Fringe reference.

Isn't everything a Fringe reference eventually?

 

I thought it was Sunday night, after Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom (at least, in the early 70s). My dad would make us peanut butter and honey sandwiches, and we'd watch that lineup while my mom had some rare quiet time with a book. I have very fond memories of those Sunday nights. I think that's why I like this show. It fills that slot in my heart.

I remember it on Sunday as well, but maybe it changed days at some point. I had a VHS recording of their airing of the animated Robin Hood forever. For years, I thought it ended like 20 minutes before it did because our tape cut off. I just loved that darn fox, what have they done? Anyway, I think they paid homage to that in "The Price of Gold" too.

[stealinghome]

Continue to love the Ingrid vs. Rumple scenes.  Ingrid really has become one of my favorite seasonal bad guys.  Elizabeth Mitchell has just been splendid in this role, and really lights up her scenes.

I've been particularly impressed with Mitchell for the last 2-3 episodes because a surprising amount of the time, the script calls for her to basically be monologuing to herself or posing dangerously alone in a room. And she's nailing those scenes alone. The creepily maternal way she was cradling Elsa's urn before Rumpel popped up, for example, was just so...creepy. Also, she gives off highly inappropriate vibes with people she's supposed to be related to. But that just works for the creep factor.

 

You see, it's stuff like Rumple's speech that makes me have no issues admitting that I don't dislike him as much as Regina.  Because Rumple knows the score.  He knows he is a selfish bastard, that cares only about himself, and will harm anyone to do so.  And, you know what?  He points the finger right as himself.  On this show, I can handle that.  He's an asshole, but he owns it.  I'll take that every day of the week, over Regina whining that the world is out to get her.

Sing it. The contrast for me tonight between Rumpel's "I'm a man who always makes the bad decisions" and Regina's endless self-pitying was incredibly stark. And it's so frustrating, because Regina could be a good--maybe even a great--character if they'd just get her over her endless self-pity and have her truly, really own her decisions and her evil deeds. But they just won't let either happen, so I'm rooting for her to be in Offscreenville 90% of the time. Whereas Rumpel is always entertaining even--perhaps especially--when he's being the world's biggest asshole.

[snarkastic]

One more thing, Ingrid arrives in the Land Without Magic in 1982. Does that mean she arrived pre-Emma, or is the show just changing the year Emma was born willy nilly? (I first bonded with Emma in season one because our birthdates were so close, so I'll be sad if it's changed.)

[Bluerang1]

It didn't seem like 2 hours was necessary for this episode but I still appreciated it. I'm glad a lot of questions were answered. But I wonder, where was this portal travelling Socerer, or at least his Apprentice when Mist Haven needed help against the Evil Queen's curse? If he's so powerful why doesn't he just eradicate the Dark One? Introducing an omnipotent Socerer just made this show even more of a Lost 2.0.

 

Can they not with the Rumple controlling Hook thing, not here for that. But I love how he needed the heart of someone who jnew him before he was the Dark One, brilliant twist, even though the person wasn't a surprise. I thought it'd be the heart of the one who hates him the most.

 

Also, two week break </3

[InsertWordHere]

One more thing, Ingrid arrives in the Land Without Magic in 1982. Does that mean she arrived pre-Emma, or is the show just changing the year Emma was born willy nilly? (I first bonded with Emma in season one because our birthdates were so close, so I'll be sad if it's changed.)

Emma hasn't been born yet, but this significantly shortens the timeline by a hell of a lot (assuming EF time runs parallel to our own), because this is all occurring before Belle meets Rumple and Charming meets Snow. It also means Roland cannot be four in season three. There's no way, because Marian did not give birth to him until Belle was with Rumple. If that all occurs in 1982, then Roland would have been at most one and ten months old (and that's really pushing it) when the curse was cast in October 1983. Then add one and a half years between when Emma came to Storybrooke and now and he would be at most three and a half. Unless there was some huge time jump between the events of Family Business and this episode, but it didn't seem that way, because Elsa is waiting for Anna so they could have dinner.

Edited November 17, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[snarkastic]

Emma hasn't been born yet, but this significantly shortens the timeline by a hell of a lot (assuming EF time runs parallel to our own), because this is all occurring before Belle meets Rumple and Charming meets Snow. It also means Roland cannot be four in season three. There's no way, because Marian did not give birth to him until Belle was with Rumple. If that all occurs in 1982, then Roland would have been at most one and ten months old when the curse was cast in October 1983. Unless there was some huge time jump between the events of Family Business and this episode, but it didn't seem that way, because Elsa is waiting for Anna so they can have dinner.

 

See, I thought the Apprentice implied that the Snow Queen would be in a stasis-like state until the third sister was born, but to her it would be like she just walked through the door without the stasis. So almost like time travel in her perspective. That's what confused me about the 82. Because if it was just a portal, like the way you're saying, Roland really effs the timeline up, doesn't he?

[MaiLuna]

I liked this episode and yes, the storyline could've fitted in one hour but who can say no to extra OUAT?

 

Things I loved:

-Emma being so happy with herself and her magic at the end. Emma being happy gives me life.

-Anna/Elsa's bond. Also, Elsa in general. Can we keep her forever? Please and thank you. Though maybe it'd be better if she leaves so they can't ruin her.

-Having Rumpel/Hook and Rumpel/Emma interaction. Rumpel is so much more entertaining as a villian.

 

Things I didn't like:

-Can Killian Jones ever catch a break? He's 300 years old, give him at least a happy WEEK in his life. But if we get people caring about him over this, then I'm all for it. If it's gonna be resolved with people getting mad at him or never even finding out, then no.

-Adultery in a crypt. Enough said. Also, Snow encouraging it. Ew.

-Snow slowing down the search for her daughter to give a pep talk to Regina. Seriously? Even though Regina lacks self-awareness (giving the Charmings dirty looks in this episode when they mention her crimes when she should be glad they even speak to her), how can she change when everytime she mentions how much evil she's done, people like Robin and Snow just give her pep talks?

 

 

Regarding the book: clearly what happened tonight shows that people choose their own fate and the book just records it, so it's Regina still gonna blame the author for her "unhappiness"? (because this was the episode she smiled the most or close to it)

Are we going to meet the Sorcerer or is the "apprentice" the sorcerer himself? Though I don't think he'd have let himself be sucked into the hat if he was.
 

[Izeinwinter]

Cross realm time isn't in sync much at all. We've seen Regina reach into the past of the enchanted realm from Storybrook, and when the party from storybrook visited the enchanted forest, I don't think the ogre's had had domain for 28 years. There is some kind of time distortion between the realms - not sure if one realm just has faster time or if it's like the weather and changes all the... erhh. time. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Why assume that everything that's going to happen is going to happen as soon as DQ gets to 1982?  She may live there for several years before things start happening.

[Souris]

Yeah, 4x05 officially severed my emotional attachment to the show. I couldn't get worked up about anything in this ep, even the awful Hook angst.

 

I’m just glad they didn’t make it be Regina who talked Emma off the ledge. I was worried about that for awhile, because of the writers’ obsession with having Regina save the day all the damn time. So I’m fine with it being Elsa. She had been in exactly the same position, so she had the wisdom of experience.

 

 

We’d just damn well better get a wonderful Captain Swan scene with Emma saving Killian and restoring his heart by the mid-season break. I do think his heart will get crushed or frozen first, though, so he can be freed from his debt to Rumple.

 

So Arendelle is apparently in a frozen stasis, so Sven didn’t have to take over and rule with an iron hoof in the absence of the royal family. So nobody will be dead when the trio return. Good.

 

 

Snow Queen be crazy.

 

Also, Rumple can please die in a fire. Or he can get sucked into the hat and have his powers stripped from him. And then die in a fire.

 

I fast-forwarded through all the Robin scenes and 90% of the Regina scenes. I just can't with them. So icky and gross.

 

At least Charming remembers that Regina killed a whole lot of people. It's good that ONE member of that family isn't a Regina cheerleader. It's deplorable what the writers have done to the character of Snow. It's clear they don't give a rat's ass about her, except for when they can use her to prop up or cheerlead Regina. "My daughter's missing and just had a car accident? Whatevs, let's dish about your vault sex! Oh, and I was a bratty monster and totally deserved you ruining my life and stealing my kingdom!"

[Leia1979]

This episode felt like it really had enough content for 90 minutes, not two hours. Scenes went on longer than they would under normal circumstances. It wasn't bad, but we'd hit points in scenes that felt abnormally long. I used those times plus the OQ crypt scene that I will now delete from my brain to teach my husband about the OUAT drinking game. 

 

I would never have imagined myself saying this back in May, but I wish we could keep Elsa. She's a great friend for Emma. DQ is delightfully evil...a misguided, twisted, yet somewhat sympathetic evil. And yes, I did make a "Charmed" Power of Three crack tonight.

 

Storybrooke is obviously a much larger town than I previously thought, since it takes people for-freakin'-ever to get anywhere. Of course, that's partly because some people think it's better to walk (Snow) than take a perfectly fine vehicle with headlights. It even took Hook forever to get there, and he had a map (with the unknown manor clearly marked and conveniently pre-printed)!

 

I still feel like Emma's crazy powers came out of nowhere. I kept expecting DQ to take credit for causing the...er...power surge. 

 

Alas, poor Hook. I also kept expecting Belle or Gold to appear during his confessional in the shop. I think at the rate Gold has been erasing VHS tapes that Emma won't get Hook's message. I was concerned about that kiss in the manor was Gold's doing, not Hook's. I'm instead going to tell myself he was genuinely relieved Emma was okay and needed to distract her to grab the hat.

[InsertWordHere]

Why assume that everything that's going to happen is going to happen as soon as DQ gets to 1982?  She may live there for several years before things start happening.

Because we have a solid date in that the curse was cast on October 22nd, 1983 on Emma's birthday. 

 

Cross realm time isn't in sync much at all. We've seen Regina reach into the past of the enchanted realm from Storybrook, and when the party from storybrook visited the enchanted forest, I don't think the ogre's had had domain for 28 years. There is some kind of time distortion between the realms - not sure if one realm just has faster time or if it's like the weather and changes all the... erhh. time. 

I don't think this has been established. The Regina hat portal was crossing timelines no matter what, because Snow dropped that apple at least nine months before the curse. Regina's hand was going through her own personal timeline in that instance. Cora specifically states that she and Hook will have to wait 28 years, time just passed differently because of the bubble, not because timelines weren't in sync IMO. Neal was in the EF for a few days after being shot, and when he meets up with the Nevengers in Neverland, who had come from our world, their timelines are still in sync.

 

See, I thought the Apprentice implied that the Snow Queen would be in a stasis-like state until the third sister was born, but to her it would be like she just walked through the door without the stasis. So almost like time travel in her perspective. That's what confused me about the 82. Because if it was just a portal, like the way you're saying, Roland really effs the timeline up, doesn't he?

Hmm, that is a possibility that I had not thought of. Maybe The Apprentice sent Ingrid to that time for a specific reason. Maybe there's something she has to do/experience before Emma comes through in 1983.

[Jean]

I love the Snow Queen. She's rivaling my love for Rumple but whereas I root for Rumple to fall (cause he rarely does), I actually want Ingrid to get what she wants. Kind of. I so want a spin off of the 3 Blondies with an occasional visit by Rumple. Her "decorate my walls with your bones" might be the best line of the series and I couldn't stop laughing at her mocking Anna with "Surprise!" The whole Frozen cast is made of win and I rather watch them than the main cast. This show is going straight down the crapper once they leave.

 

Also the sister thing is a little strange considering she's Elsa's aunt and was Emma's foster mom and she is more like a mom to Emma than anything. That scene of her projection and Emma was pretty hilarious. It was exactly like a mom and her errant teen.

 

The whole magic thing is so contrived but I'll take it for the Elsa/Emma scene. I think my favorite part was when Emma told her she could die from taking her hand (could she? all she did was blast Henry, come on Emma don't exaggerate your powers) and Elsa said she was willing to risk it. Actually Elsa the entire episode was awesome. It's such a shame they've under utilized her so much when it's freaking ELSA. Instead of all the junk that we got, they could've spent it on developing her with Ingrid and her and Emma. It would've resonated more but as is, it's all kind of shallow and the only thing saving it are the actresses.

[Izeinwinter]

Ingrid probably needed a few years to establish herself before she could create a fake identity good enough that the foster care system bought into it. Heck, she had a whole group of foster kids, so she must have been doing it for a while. Uhm. Bloody heck, just how smart is Ingrid? Because pulling that of from starting in new york in a fancy dress with no paper work or ID... What did she do, get a lead in a broadway production? Take over the criminal underworld via freezing death? 

 

The ribbons seem like the sort of thing that should work all three ways - They are the product of sisterly love and time, not an effort to forge the one ring to bind them all in the darkness, so it would fit better if the magic lets whatever "sister" is in most need draw on the full power of all. Or for extra hilarity, they *do* compel true love. On everyone involved. I mean, the sorceror can obviously see through time, and was A-Ok with setting this whole thing up, so if the end result is that Ingrid hexes herself into being nicer by accident, that would fit. 

 

Hook is so dead. They were really just marking him down for demise the entire episode. 

 

Rumple might also end up in little frozen chunks. Because he's really crusing for a smackdown..

 

I love Elsa and Emma together? 

[Camera One]

This episode was giving me whiplash and I'm not used to experiencing it for two hours.  Three minute of enjoyment and then three minutes of wanting to take a baseball bat to every mirror in the apartment cycled 20 times was really tiring and ultimately gave me a headache.

 

The flashbacks were very engaging and good, which is saying something since we already know the outcome.  Anna is just so much better with Elsa and Kristoff in Arendelle rather than being inserted/force fed into the regular characters' flashbacks.  They were a nice mix of comedy, drama and adventure.  I'm surprised Disney let them have Anna unleash her internal anger like that.  So Anna and Kristoff are probably still frozen in Arendelle, but they didn't need Regina's Heart Removal Surgery to keep them alive?  Huh?  Because there's no way they're dead, since that would definitely be a big no-no for Disney.

 

There's magic to give yourself a sister, but "magic like that could take time".  WTH... the magic this season is just so much more preposterous and ridiculous to me.  The Snow Queen could just decide that Elsa would be her second sister?  

 

They looked "everywhere" and couldn't find Emma.  But Henry could find her walking around in the dark without a flashlight.  Maybe he glows like a neon sign when he uses his Heart of the Truest Belieber powers.  I was hoping Henry would recoil in disgust after Regina did magic on him without his consent.

 

Whenever it switched to Robin or Will, it just felt like a completely different show.  Why exactly did they need Will again?  They couldn't give those scenes to Little John?  Enough with the skeeziness in the crypt.  "That was the best... sleep I've had in a long time."  Did they want everyone to go running to throw up?   

 

So they spent last episode dredging up all the Snow/Emma issues and had Snow seemingly in shock that she had hurt Emma.  I was actually hopeful near the beginning of the episode, when they had Snow apologize on the phone using "I", and then they had Snow and Charming with a nice conversation about what to do about Emma.  But then, around the 45 min mark, it just all went to hell.  As usual.  They needed to have Regina make Snow and Charming come to the realization they shouldn't let Emma make a rash decision to get rid of her magic?  Seriously??!  I'm thinking this was solely to give Regina a moment of self-awareness about how she made Henry thought he was crazy.  It was good she finally voiced that aloud, but again, Snow and Charming had to be thrown under a bus for it.  I thought it couldn't get any worse, but then we had the usual 3B Snow listening to Regina's problems and giving her a pep talk.  Who cares what Snow is going through, let's talk about Regina's love life instead.  And it's like for every negative sentence they use for Regina, they had to cut down Snow quid pro quo.  "You may be sleeping with a married man but so have I."  Uh... David was your actual husband and Regina was so sick she made you *think* you were having an affair.  "You saw how selfish and shallow I was as a child."  Uh, not as selfish and shallow as your adult stepmother who fantasized about strangling you and then going through with trying to kill you for years.  "You are not all evil and I am not all good."  Let's just not even bother making these words sound natural, and just write what Adam and Eddy thinks.  It's almost like they took that extra hour and used it solely for padding out the Regina stuff.

 

Emma and Elsa's scene was excellent.  Their friendship is just so good.  I wish they could keep her on after 3A, but you just know they'd backburner her if they did keep her as a regular.

 

The scene with the fireworks was cheesy as hell.  Why write more than two lines for Emma and her parents when they could all pretend they were watching really fake CGI fireworks.  

 

It looks like The Book has identity issues and wants to become a Choose Your Own Adventures instead.  And no, I still can't take this plotline seriously after eight episodes.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Camera One

[kitticup]

I have mixed feelings about this one.

I liked all the frozen characters. They were well used. eM has done an excellent job portraying the Snow Queen. I love her interacting with rumple.

Elsa and Anna were great. I also loved Elsa and Emma. It annoyed me how they wasted Elsa in the last few episodes especially episode 5.

I wasn't paying attention for all the OQ stuff.

The thing that got me was Hook yet again getting the short end of the stick. I don't like that Rumple took his heart. I liked that he's had rumple and Cora had tried to take his heart but they never did. It made me wonder if there was reason for it - Guess not. I don't like Hook being at the mercy of the dark one. I used to wonder If A&E had a thing against good looking guys, since they Seemed to be cannon fodder. Hook seemed to break that mould but they always have him get cursed or knocked our. It is not fun for me. I actually miss capt innuendo. I want him to win sometimes. Carlyle and Colin played well together.

Edited November 17, 2014 by kitticup

[regularlyleaded]

I don’t know if I want to put my head through a wall in frustration or laugh smugly because I knew how this would end before the episode even started. After pointedly bringing up all these unresolved issues in 4x07 between Emma and Snow wrg to their strained relationship, the writers ignore pretty much everything and wrap it all up like we all knew they would — with a throwaway sentence and a hug. That's it. Uuuuugh. They even had Emma phone Snow from the get go and calling her ‘Mom’ and saying "it doesn't matter". Of. Course. Of freaking course.

 

GAH! Why? Why do I bother, guys? Whyyyyyyyyy???? I gotta say, there’s part of me that wants Grand Pabbie’s memory curse thrown my way so I can forget this infuriating show exists.

 

*le sigh*

 

In other news...I love Emma and Elsa's friendship. I'm gonna miss their magical sisterhood friendship when Elsa inevitably leaves at the end of the midseason. I'll also miss the Snow Queen. I wanna jettison Regina, Robin, Henry, the reek and offensive stupidity of Outlaw Queen and Operation Mongoose out a magical porthole into an inescapable blackhole (I would also not be opposed to Snow and the inappropriately named baby being sucked into that hole as well) and keep the Snow Queen in exchange. If I didn't know without a shadow of doubt that the writers would just mess-up the Snow Queen's character too, I'd want Elizabeth Mitchell to stay on as the Snow Queen forever. Her bizarre relationships with Emma, Elsa and Rumple are just made of win and all four actors sell the hell out of it.....just sooo much win.

[AudienceofOne]

My streaming consciousness during this episode:

 

Robin and Regina are the worst people in the Universe. I hope she unexpectedly meets another man with the same tattoo. That would be hilarious. Her "I tried to be good and the Universe didn't instantly reward me so now I'm having a massive tantie" is so fucking childish.

 

The DQ seems to have sipped from the same "history retcon" well Regina has.

 

Emma trusting Gold? That can't end well.

 

I don't believe for a second that Elsa would believe the DQ about... oh good!

 

I love Hook. I know that's a shock to everybody.

 

Rumple's being kind of awesome in this episode. Evil but awesome.

 

Yay for Michael Socha. There's literally no reason for him to be in this episode or this season but I don't even care.

 

This "book" storyline is still the. dumbest. thing. ever. As per reasons already stated.

 

Dear Snow and Charming: maybe you should be trying to have this conversation with your daughter rather than letting her make a massive life-changing decision while she's this emotional. It's not like you don't have a locating spell.

 

Yay for Elsa and the locating spell.

 

I love Hook. I know that's a shock to everybody.

 

Why didn't Rumple take the DQ's magic while she was trapped? Anybody? Bueller?

 

No, really, I love Hook. That phone conversation got me good.

 

Surprise!

 

Yep, there's that Regina "history retcon" well again. You weren't failing to "support your son when he discovered he was special". You were attempting to keep a entire kingdom of people enslaved.  Still "this may be the worst idea you've had since hiring the Wicked Witch as your Nanny" gave me LOLs.

 

"Why would a cat want a hat?"

"I've seen stranger"

LOL

 

That really was an amazing speech by Gold. Totally true and totally manipulative.

 

I love Hook. I know that's a shock to everybody. Poor Hook. I really hope he gets his day. And some quality Captain Swan time.

 

Wow the DQ really is batshit insane.

 

That Emma/Elsa scene was great.

 

Ergh, they really are going for this "Hook forced by the villain to work against Emma" thing. Again. It was tiresome the first time around.

 

Dear Regina: you're not doomed to fail, you're just making bad choices. Love, Universe.

Dear Universe: I'm going to choose to completely misunderstand you. Love, Regina.

 

Wow the DQ really is batshit insane.

 

Ok, this has become a gripe for me. If opening a portal to our realm is so impossible that it took the Dark One decades and Regina and a curse and saviour, then how come all these people can just open up magical portals at will? Why didn't Rumple just steal a magic bean or the Jolly Roger? Or wave his hands?

 

Evil mirror magic.

 

I enjoyed that. Robin and Regina got edited out of my head.

[placate]

I don't care. I recorded the last hour while I watched The Walking Dead. Snow Queen wants magic sister witches but WTF. She picked Elsa and she has the same powers that she does, not much to draw upon there. I admit that drawing on Emma's savior magic was much better because that gave her immunity to plot lines but seriously, threaten Rumple? Rumple has been the biggest threat through all seasons because dealing with him means you owe something to him and he will always screw you over,

[Minneapple]

Emma and Elsa are the best. They are basically sisters. And I just love Elsa period. Her little look at the Captain Swan reunion was adorable. WHERE IS MY SPINOFF, ABC? Hell, bring Ingrid along, I love her too. Officially an awesome villain. Never seen Elizabeth Mitchell in anything else but I love her in this role. When she asked the apprentice at the end about her happy ending, she sounded so desperate. Like yeah, lady, you're crazy, but it's an awesome kind of crazy and I love it.

The Arendelle flashbacks were great. Lovely sets and Anna is so much better with Elsa and Kristoff than random-ass Belle trampling through the mountains. I really hope for good things for Georgina and Elizabeth after this, because I've enjoyed them so much and I'm going to miss the hell out of them.

So I see that the next step in redeeming Regina involves an adulterous affair with a man whose wife is at death's door. That's very redeemy! Oh, and did I mention the crypt sex? No? Because that puts a special touch on the Path of Redemption. A SPECIAL GROSS TOUCH. GODDAMMIT, WRITERS.

Anyhoo, yes, Mary Margaret had sex with David when he was with Katherine. Although they left out the wee detail that they were living out their past lives in which they were married, and it was a HUGE DEAL and that Mary Margaret was branded the town slut and made into an outcast. I assume a similar story is being prepared for Regina as we speak. Also, if the honorable and brave Robin Hood could try to find a cure for his wife in between having crypt sex with the Redeemed Evil Queen, that'd be great.

Regina: Do you know what I regret most?

David: The countless innocent lives you destroyed?

Hah! Cookies to the writer who penned that line.

[KAOS Agent]

I watched this episode right after reading the horrifying news that the world is running out of chocolate, so I may have gone into it a bit distressed and Elsa's chocolate buffet for Anna did not help matters. 

 

Things I liked:

 

- Elsa is made of win. I loved her so much for eavesdropping on Snow & David's discussion on Emma being "normal" and saying fuck that and taking off on her own.

 

- I cannot tell you how much I love the Snow Queen. I want her to win so bad. I loved how her little visit to the apprentice was like some little kid asking one of Santa's elves to tell him something. Dear Santa, I want a new sister to love. Please make her as magically special as I am. Love, Ingrid

 

- Hook saying yet again that maybe they should listen to Emma and leave her alone to settle down so she doesn't hurt anyone. I also appreciated that as soon as he heard her plans, he immediately owned up to everything on her voice mail and said that that even if she hated him, he'd be happy because that meant she'd still be alive.

 

- All of the Frozenbacks were very good and kept my attention. I'll be so sad when those guys are gone and 4B becomes the Regina show again.

 

Things I didn't like:

 

- Did they seriously have sex on the floor of that crypt? I said in the spoiler thread I'm going to embrace the madness that is Outlaw Queen, but the floor of a crypt? Just no. One positive, if they can get away with showing what they did for Regina & Robin, Hook & Emma ought to get something similar right? Although I'd bet Captain Swan have higher standards than crypt floor sex.

 

- I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that they completely swept all of the Snow/Emma issues away with one line and a hug. Snow wouldn't let Emma hold the baby and refused to look her in the eye. An apology does not cut it. It's not okay, Emma. Stop saying it is. 

 

- What the everloving hell was this nonsense about how Emma would be better off being normal? Snowing suck big time for that. They can play it as following Emma's wishes, but David even mentioned that it might help stop the Snow Queen if Emma didn't have magic. It was just a gross conversation and I felt like they were relieved in thinking that their daughter would be "normal". Totally proved the Snow Queen right to my mind.

 

- Snow as Regina's prop again was awful. I slept with a married man too? No, you slept with your husband who was cursed into thinking he was married to someone else. You did not sleep with a married man whose wife's life depends on him falling in love with her again. And bratty Snow made a return. Dear Show, bratty Snow got a set down from her mother. She went away before she met Regina. Also please stop pretending that being a brat means you deserve to be murdered.

 

- I took the storybook page to be a sign that if you made good choices going forward, your future isn't written. I think it was meant to show Regina that there is hope and if she'd made better choices in the past, they would have been reflected in the book. I still think this whole plotline is stupid, but maybe there's a glimmer of awareness that the book isn't her problem. She and her choices are.

[Aliasscape]

Ah, in case the show's brainwashing had begun to work on you, this ep is a reminder that Regina's scum. And Robin's scum too. But hey remember that regrets tree that's supposed to hang onto Regina and it didn't and we all screamed look Regina doesn't regret hurting people and people tried to argue oh just for that minute but really she does. But then we have this ep where Charming dares suggest she should most regret killing countless innocents and not only does her face tell you it's not her greatest regret but not something she regrets AT ALL. Like she seemed shocked by the suggestion that that's even a thing to regret.  But oh she's so on the road to redeemed, you guys. Can't you see it? She's a murderer, rapist, child killer, child abuser who goes around destroying entire worlds, but she needs a boyfriend, why must the world be so cruel that it tries to deny her having a boyfriend? She needs hope, ya'll. Hope she can keep a boyfriend! Hope she can choose to have one! Just watch her have a romantic evening at a crypt. She needs him so much. Hasn't the show shown you how much she NEEDS her boyfriend? Excuse me, I need some bleach, to bang my head into a wall, maybe a trip to the Dairy Queen to have my memory erased.

 

Oh but wait, there's more. I loathe Snow. Like I used to just be waning on her. A bit indifferent, annoyed, but now I just hate her. She's never going to love Emma even half as much as she loves Regina. Her kid wants to destroy a piece of herself. "Alright honey, you have fun. We'll have cocoa after." When it takes a woman so obsessed with her child she'll kill people, to help you figure out you should care anything about yours, you KNOW you've failed as a parent. A "Hey Mom" would have made me happy 2 seasons ago. Now I'm just like yeah you better apologize Snow and you don't deserve to be called a mother at ALL. And oh she finally realizes that Emma needs her but wait, let's stop and stand in the middle of the road and give Regina a pep talk. Because Regina needs her hope of getting a boyfriend more than you need to stop your kid from possibly DESTROYING HERSELF. Ugh, fall off a cliff Snow.

 

Like seriously, Elsa was awesome. She hears Emma's parents talking nonsense and goes to find her. She RISKS HER OWN LIFE to save Emma. And I know she had a locater potion but uh, she WALKED the entire way, in that blue gown and still reached the house faster than Charming and Snow that DROVE there halfway. (And hey remember when Regina could light up tire tracks back in season 2, so they'd glow in the dark and that's how she found the bean fields. Useful thing she could've done so they could've kept DRIVING instead of walking halfway.) 

 

(Oh and since when does Regina have healing powers? That used to be a Rumpel only skill. Remember when Henry got burned in the burning dreams room and she's like bandaging it and Rumpel healed it. Uh huh. No consistency in these powers, I swear. And she got to the library as fast as possible? Remember you can teleport Regina?)

 

I liked the flashbacks this week. And I STILL have trouble feeling like Emma, Elsa and the Snow Queen all together and away from all the rest of these people is exactly a bad thing. Dairy Queen did some awful stuff back in Arendelle, I get it but she's still less of a villain than half the people in this show and we're supposed to hope they all get what they want. So why not her? I mean Emma wouldn't listen to the hologram version but even then realized Dairy Queen wanted her ALIVE. Can't say the same for Rumpel.

 

Also I like Emma's personal aurora borealis even better than the fireworks. 

 

Ha, no Belle and no baby in this episode. Guess they spent the entire time together.  

 

Oh and they finally built a loft set for that upstairs room. So, apparently Emma, Elsa and Henry all share that bed? Oh Snow and Charming, "Where's Elsa?" Well your apartment has almost no walls, so either she's asleep in the bathtub or she's NOT THERE.

 

It's sad I can hate this much in an episode I otherwise liked. Emma and Elsa really do just need to be their own show.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Aliasscape

[regularlyleaded]

- What the everloving hell was this nonsense about how Emma would be better off being normal? Snowing suck big time for that. They can play it as following Emma's wishes, but David even mentioned that it might help stop the Snow Queen if Emma didn't have magic. It was just a gross conversation and I felt like they were relieved in thinking that their daughter would be "normal". Totally proved the Snow Queen right to my mind.

JFC, don't remind me. I was utterly gobsmacked when Snow said something about Emma was going to lose what she was born to be, a hero, and Charming's reply was something along the lines of "Maybe giving up part of herself is the heroic thing she was meant to do because then the Snow Queen can't win! And she can't hurt anyone. *shrug*" JFC. I mean, J. F. C. Snow and Charming don't even know what Emma has to do to get rid of her magic (as far as they know it could require impaling herself with a knife), but whatever. They're as calm as can be and all "Whatever. We support our daughter's (emotionally compromised) decision and plus she can't hurt anyone this way. Would you like some hot chocolate, Regina?" Ugh! Screw you, Snowing, and screw you writers for this BS. I can't believe the writers made me want to smack Charming. And just when I'd grown to like him. Et tu, Brute?

 

- Elsa is made of win. I loved her so much for eavesdropping on Snow & David's discussion on Emma being "normal" and saying fuck that and taking off on her own.

- I cannot tell you how much I love the Snow Queen. I want her to win so bad. I loved how her little visit to the apprentice was like some little kid asking one of Santa's elves to tell him something. Dear Santa, I want a new sister to love. Please make her as magically special as I am. Love, Ingrid

THIS. So much THIS.

 

Like seriously, Elsa was awesome. She hears Emma's parents talking nonsense and goes to find her. She RISKS HER OWN LIFE to save Emma.

 

And also THIS.

 

Really, the scene with Emma and Elsa at the mansion where Elsa talks Emma off the ledge, plus the scenes shared between Emma/Rumple, Emma/Snow Queen, Rumple/Snow Queen, Rumple/Hook, and Emma/Hook saved the episode for me (Hook + Phone confessionals was quite good too) because everything else was such overwhelming crap it almost ruined it all.

 

(Honorable mention for the scene that Henry gets magically smacked and tossed on his ass. LOL! Priceless moment. That moment is worth saving as a looping gif and watching over and over.)

Edited November 17, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[KAOS Agent]

You know, it occurred to me that once again they laid all of the issues from last episode at Emma's feet. Emma's problems were not the result of her parents' actions and how they've chipped away at her confidence in their love, but because Emma didn't love herself. You know why Emma has problems loving herself? Because these people's words and actions leave her in doubt that she's lovable. So much so that she wanted to get rid of a part of herself to fix it and they were freaking okay with that. It just makes me sick. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[myril]

Wonder if this mess of a two hour episode made sense to anyone but the writers and diehard fans. Found it noticeable, that this was not planned as two hour episode from the beginning (minus advertising that is 90 minutes), and that they had no decent time come up with enough stuff to actually fill 90 minutes in a good way(that was at best good for a 60 minutes).

 

Regina admitted and regretted she gaslighted Henry: that must have slipped the Woegina censor machine. Could have been a highlight of the episode, if they hadn't butchered Snow and Charming even more to get to this moment at all, so it was more of another low among plenty. Regina comes across as voice of reason and understanding and empathy not by her own doings but because others are made dumb and ignorant. Snow and Charming are degraded to beef up Woehero and ex Evil Queen Regina, Robin Hood has become the king of douchebags, the Blue Fairy is the shady big power notably absent. What great, innovative twists of the Disney fairy tale world. /sarcasm off

 

The special OutlawQueen treat: If you like that kind of icky candy, but not my kind of camp. And I had a gothic phase once upon a time.

 

Will Scarlett figured out, that the library is probably the heart of Storybrooke. Guess some needed someone to clue them into the big, well protected secret of Storybrooke. Remember faintly people discussing in season 1, that Regina might have closed and locked  the library to keep people from getting wrong ideas by reading books about happy endings and heroes (although then she should have banned TV as well). Maybe she herself didn't know what she was doing (did she ever?), or it was just because of what was beneath the library.

The good stuff:

 

Elsa and Emma:  the power of friendship and self-acceptance. Yeah!

 

The Frozen cast: a joy to watch.

 

Snow Queen Ingrid: I love her creepy, tragic craziness. Her story has plotholes bigger than the sinkhole on the Yamal Peninsula though. Maybe it's because Elizabeth Mitchell plays her like a child in an adult's body, that I don't feel a need for a great redeemption arc for the Snow Queen to wish, she would find a happy ending.  There is an amazing sense of innocence shimmering through her coldness and evil craziness every now and then. Aside that, different from Regina, we haven't seen Ingrid gleefully kill people nor order the execution of people, of a whole village, nor willfully kill any of her family (although might have come close with Anna). Unless freezing Arendelle killed people, which given the situation Marian is in we maybe should assume could have happened, on the other hand I doubt it did. Whatever wacko magical reason,  maybe Grand Pabbie did  some quick protection counteract spell alike the good fairy did in the Sleeping Beauty tale did in some versions. Have no doubt Ingrid would kill if someone gets in her way though. I think, that I wish for some sort of a happy ending for Ingrid is mainly due to Mitchell's acting.

 

The now magical ribbons: Said it before - send in Warehouse 13 agents, maybe Myka and H.G. Wells could save the day.

Edited November 17, 2014 by katusch

[Joanh23]

The big Emma/Elsa scene was great, and I love love love the Snow Queen - I really don't want her to die at the end of this arc, but I'm not holding out much hope.  Robin continues to annoy me - he has not mentioned his son in the last couple of episodes!  I am loving evil Rumple - he really is turning into the big villain of the season.  And once again I am annoyed with Snow and Charming for how blasé they were about Emma getting rid of her magic.  I can't wait to see how the Hook angst will play out - mainly coz I know it will bring some great scenes with Emma.  And Belle has to find out soon about the dagger!

[irisheyes]

 

Rumple, you ruthless, evil but you own it, bastard. I've missed you. I'm glad he (the show) has stopped pretending he was anything other than a power hungry, manipulative but magnificent villain.

I completely agree. I think this show fires on all cylinders when they have Rumple like this, rather than the "he's really a good guy at heart who is sometimes mad for power." When he's the golden imp in the fairybacks, he's fun, but when he's full on villain in Storybrooke, he's absolutely magnificent, and no one is safe. (Poor Hook!)

While the crypt sex is completely skeevy, I still have a soft spot in my heart for Regina. I really liked the conversation she had with Henry when he was feeling worthless because he didn't have magic like either of his moms. (And, no show, don't go there.). I think the show just needs to kill Marian off completely and let Regina and Robin be together.

The Snow Queen may be one of the best villains this show has created. I can't wait for her final showdown with Rumple. Honestly, I'm not sure who I want to win. :)

[Randomosity]

We’d just damn well better get a wonderful Captain Swan scene with Emma saving Killian and restoring his heart by the mid-season break.

This times a million. The only way I'm even a little ok with Hook getting effed over again is of its actually a vehicle for a hella dramatic reunion, with Emma finally realizing/admitting that he's her twoo wuv.

It would be wonderfully refreshing to have CaptainSwan just BE in 4B. Snowing had their drama, and now they just ARE. They're established, it is what it is, and life goes on outside the couple. Our would be nice for Hook and Emma to achieve that - she spends her days fighting the current baddie and saving and whatnot, and then just happens to go home every night to Hook for Netflix, wine, and a snuggle.

[/rambling CS-shipping...]

[ParadoxLost]

I mean it was sort of odd that out of any book Robin could have pulled they did "the Cat in the Hat.".

Obviously a clue that the Sorcerer is Puss in Boots;)

[Autumn]

I think the magic hat is making Rumple super evil.  Someone left it in that house or him to find.  I think the sorcerer is the person who wrote the book and created the daggar.

 

Did everyone forget that Emma's magic is what saved their sorry behinds over and over again.  If it wasn't for Emma's magic none of them would have a happy ending including her parents.

 

Henry is seriously useless.  I was hoping making him Gold's apprentice would make him start to turn a bit dark, but nope he's still hyper focused on the stupid book.

 

Regina and Robin.  Clearly no one in the town gives two damns that you are cheating on Marion  so you might as well get a comfy bed someplace less dusty.  The Snow Queen must have known that all she had to do to keep Regina out of her hair was to get her laid.

 

I think Will only exists so he will admit at some point that he is in love with Marion and offer to take her away with him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Belle is the worst librarian ever if The Cat in the Hat is next to an auto repair manual.

 

I love how graceful and elegant DQ's hands are when she does magic (as opposed to Emma's hands looking like a truck driver doing the "Stop! In the Name of Love" hand gestures).

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe it's because Elizabeth Mitchell plays her like a child in an adult's body,

 

I really think that's what DQ is.  I really think time stood still for her.  She told the Apprentice that she hasn't been happy since she was out chasing a kite with her sisters and that's when that man who tried to kidnap the youngest one.  That's when her powers first manifested.  For someone who has been telling Elsa and Emma to embrace who they are and their magic, she sure as hell seems to have taken a very long time to accept her own powers.

 

Whoever said that everything, Emma's out of control magic, has been basically pinned on her and it's her fault.  I don't understand why they won't let Snow and Emma have a genuine scene about these issues.  It's sort of important and Snow is having all these scenes with Regina about hope and this and that and it's okay to fuck a married man....Also, married man, if Regina had gone into the tavern, you wouldn't have your son.  So please, take a seat an STFU.  Thanks!

[SzmuttyPratfall]

Uhm. Bloody heck, just how smart is Ingrid? Because pulling that of from starting in new york in a fancy dress with no paper work or ID... What did she do, get a lead in a broadway production? Take over the criminal underworld via freezing death? 

 

Yes! Can we get a TV show about a Mafia Ice Queen who is a literal Ice Queen?! Make it happen ABC. Its better than what you have right now.

[kili]

Being lashed to the fence by Rumple must have seemed shockingly familiar to Hook. Lots of parallels to Rumple lashing Hook to the mast so that he could watch the love of his life be killed - complete with a heart being taken.

 

Speaking of Hook, wardrobe needs to find a new jacket for Hook. He can't hide that his hook arm is too long in this one since the actor really does have a hand and the jacket is too form fitting. That was so obvious when he was lashed to the fence with a garden hose.

 

Snow....your daughter is missing and in danger. Maybe focus on that instead of cheering on a booty call between the woman who almost killed you with the husband of the woman who died trying to protect you.

 

Regina seriously whines that she gets no happy endings in the episode where she gets two "happy endings"? She gets to be loved as a Mom by the son and grandson of women whose lives she ruined, she gets to have sex with the husband of the woman she murdered, she has a fabulous house, an even more fabulous wardrobe and she gets to live? Sounds like a happy ending to me - certainly happier than many of the good people who are now lying in the ground because of her. People like her dad whose dead body she had sex under this episode. Or Graham whose now-crushed heart was kept next to where she had sex this episode. Or Marian who has done nothing wrong who lies frozen somewhere while you have sex with her husband next to her heart and a bunch of other evil things.

 

And her book logic makes no sense. She's prevented from having a happy ending because the book doesn't allow villains to have happy endings. Ignoring her own happy ending, she sent her son to go work for the devil himself because she thinks he has a happy ending (let's ignore the truth of Rumple's happy life, we are talking about what Regina believes). So, her logic is that the book allows the biggest villain to have a happy ending while preventing villains from having happy endings.

 

Nice to know that when Robin could be trying to save the life of the woman who made him who he is today, sacrificed everything for him and had his beloved son with him, he gets drunk, plays darts and distracts the person who could save her. When he hears his wife's murderers ridiculous book logic, he is inspired to force Will to stop drinking and help her on her ill-defined task. Suddenly, it is time to do some research. Maybe he could have done some research about saving Marian's life.

 

If Anna and Kristoff aren't dead (Disney aren't unlikely to allow them to have been killed off), that means Regina ripping out Marian's heart did exactly nothing to help. Anna/Kristoff were frozen with their hearts in. But, watch, frozen hearts will be different in the two worlds and heart removal will matter in our world. Maybe Hook will be accidentally saved by Rumple because his heart will be out of his body when he gets frozen.

 

Please tell me the cloud backed up Hook's voice-mail. Let modern day magic save the day. Speaking of people who never get happy endings, Hook might have a more valid complaint in that department. When he's actively trying to be good (apologize or save Emma), he gets totally screwed over - and being magically screwed over seems as close as he gets to a "happy ending".

[PepperMonkey]

I give no fucks about Regina and Robin. He is a tool and she has bought into her own revisionist history. Sadly, Junior Tool (Henry) has either bought into it with her or is stringing her along to pacify her. Either way, I hope the three of them move down into the crypt and set up housekeeping, never to emerge again.

 

Emma needs to leave her nitwit mother and whipped father behind and move in with Elsa, Anna and Kristoff.

 

If they ARE going to kill off Hook, there will be no reason to watch the show. Especially after the Frozen cast leaves.

[Randomosity]

If they ARE going to kill off Hook, there will be no reason to watch the show. Especially after the Frozen cast leaves.

Truth. I've certainly abandoned other shows when they go haywire and eff up the good couples. And other shows often do have other stuff going for them. Here? What am I supposed to stick around for? Henry? Mausoleum sex? Baby snowflake grows up? Granny's lasagna?

Methinks not.

[FurryFury]

If the show will try to play the redemption card for Rumple after THAT, I'm seriously going to flip out. This was the point of no return, the moral event horizon that should work even for the most delusional viewers.

 

I loved the hell out of it, though. I mean, this season is pretty hard on many characters (Snow's been completely assassinated on the altar of Team Regina, David has the questionable flashback, Hook had that silly and unnecessary blackmail plot, Belle had the Anna stuff and the less said about Robin and Regina, the better), but Rumple hasn't really been a part of it. His behavior has been set up in 3B and it makes a lot of sense. Bae has always been the better part of him, not just a morality pet like Belle (or Henry for Regina) but somebody he really loved and cared for, somebody who could motivate him to actually redeem himself. And without him, it's logical that Rumple would ask himself: "Was is worth it?" and say no. In his view, he did all he could to be with Bae, and he still couldn't. So now it's the same situation as Ingrid found herself in during the flashbacks after Elsa's urning (a clever, somewhat subtle parallel, by the way - kudos to the writers, I didn't expect that from them) - he's decided to turn back into a monster.  Hell, the parallels between Rumple and Ingrid are actually pretty interesting - too bad they won't get to be explored. And the scenes between RC and EM always deliver.

 

I loved his scenes with Emma, too - a relationship that has been unfortunately forgotten by the show since season 1. The respect he clearly has for her rang true, and so did the malice with which he taunted Hook - it gave me chills and made me really feel for Hook.

 

But my favorite scene (even if way too short, unfortunately) was Ingrid freezing the whole castle. It was awesome, a complete "Hell yeah!" moment. It felt earned and logical considering her character development and I admired the allusions to Frozen. I didn't even care about the CGI in the scene, that's how much I loved it. Moments like this is why I still watch the show, even if they are so rare it hurts. Her appearing on the streets of NY in 1982 was pretty cool as well (reminded me of Enchanted, although it's probably accidental).

Anyway, I just don't want to part with Ingrid, ever. She's just so fabulous and awesome and I love EM to bits. Please, don't die, Ingrid!

 

Of course, it wouldn't be Once without the cringe-worthy stuff, like Regina/Robin and Regina/Snow. The writers sure felt empowered by s4's success and even were generous enough to throw us non-Regina stans a bone or two by having David mention the countless people she'd slaughtered or Snow having a line about her other misdeeds. Of course, it didn't even matter as, you know, Snow's as bad as Regina because she used to be a brat. Oh, and apparently Regina is as delusional as her most vocal followers in our world because she still believed the universe is out there to hurt her because of the book, until the vomit-worthy ass pull with the new pages.

 

I'm used to blame the writing for most of the show's problems, but that scene with Emma and Elsa at the manor at the end felt really off mostly because of JMo's acting choices (or probably the direction of the scene). I think at this point in the story, Emma shouldn't be cowering in fear. She should have been defiant. It just doesn't jive with the Emma I got to know before. I did love Elsa's speech and the message behind it, too, and I liked that it was Elsa who get through to Emma, because it made sense narratively.
The fireworks were d'aww-worthy, too.

 

Overall, a pretty good episode, but still too much Regina with her absolutely horrible plot. I try to block it out and FF through most of it, though - it helps a little bit.

[kili]

If they ARE going to kill off Hook, there will be no reason to watch the show.

 

I'm hoping that the Snow Queen continues her lying ways. We already know she does lie (she told Elsa a pack of lies) and appeared to lie to Rumple about the hat. She claimed to have had the hat for far longer than Rumple, but this episode seems to contradict that.

 

She got the hat from Anna and while Elsa was making her chocolate buffet, the Snow Queen went to talk to the Apprentice about trading the hat (I'm going to presume that Anna told the Snow Queen where she got the hat and that is why she knew who to talk to so quickly). She returns to tell Elsa some lies and Elsa/Anna quickly team up to search the castle for the urn. Only the ice cream has time to melt before everybody gets frozen and Rumple is soon on the scene asking for the hat. She quickly trades it with the Apprentice. How does she have time to find anything about the hat? She never seems to have any interest in using it for its purpose, just as a bargaining chip.

 

She's been around Storybrooke long enough to know that the lie she made up would have Rumple attacking Hook which is conveniently one of the people she needs to get rid of to have her new sister to herself.

 

Meanwhile, I love the Snow Queen. I love how when she was trapped by the urn, she did not lash out angrily. She simply probed and probed to see what she could do and waited patiently for the magic to expire.

 

Rumple is stone cold, but he committed one of the biggest crimes of Evil Villains everywhere. Don't create a fancy way to kill somebody and then leave the house to let the hero die. That never works. If he can operate the hat to kill the Apprentice, he can stand behind the hat to kill Emma and just call her into the room.

[Primetimer]

A double episode of Once Upon A Time leaves Adam Grosswirth with more questions than answers.

Read the story

[YaddaYadda]

I'm hoping that the Snow Queen continues her lying ways.

 

She twists the truth.  I mean Anna really did urn Elsa, she told the truth, but Anna was also cursed.  And Gerda really did urn Ingrid, but she never tells them the reason for that.  This is really why no one will convince me that she didn't do something to make Emma's powers go haywire.  Her objective was for her "sisters" to fully accept who they are. She just didn't count on Rumple to hat Emma.  And she literally served him Hook on a silver plate.  I like that she somehow knows how to use Troll magic...DQ is something alright and I'm really, really getting a kick out of her.  I didn't think EM had it in her though I loved Juliet to pieces on Lost. 

As for Rumple, this can end only two ways with him, either he loses his powers and lives like a mere mortal (which means he might end up killing himself) or he dies at the end of the series.  I don't believe he is a redeemable character and I don't want him to be redeemed either.  He doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone, he clearly doesn't love his grandson enough to want to spare the mother the fate he has reserved for her.  I mean Hook appealed to his sense of humanity by bringing up Henry and nothing...Emma brought up Neal and...nothing.  Then he brings up Milah whom he gleefully murdered all the while threatening Emma.

He's too far gone!

Edited November 17, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Mari]

Isn't everything a Fringe reference eventually?

 

Shouldn't it be, though?  Eventually?  (Could care less about Lost, but I loved Fringe.  Most of the time.)

I really think that's what DQ is.  I really think time stood still for her.  She told the Apprentice that she hasn't been happy since she was out chasing a kite with her sisters and that's when that man who tried to kidnap the youngest one.  That's when her powers first manifested.   . . .Also, married man, if Regina had gone into the tavern, you wouldn't have your son.  So please, take a seat an STFU.  Thanks!

I don't read the interviews about the actors personal lives, but I am interested in the craft interviews--where they talk about the process and their character.  In a recent Snow Queen interview, Elizabeth Mitchell basically said exactly what you're talking about--that the incident with the kite kidnapper broke Ingrid, and she was never able to really mature past that age;  she's perennially stuck as that girl who in a panic killed someone.

 

As for Regina and Robin?  Well, we haven't exactly seen shining examples of concerned and loving fatherhood from Robin--maybe he's one of those fantastic men who write the child off when his relationship with the mother ends--and we were told by Regina herself (and by her most enthusiastic fans, emphatically) that Regina was unable to regret being "Evil" because it got her Henry.

 

Now, because of crypt sex, she regrets being Evil.  By Regina's own logic, doesn't that mean she regrets Henry?  (Or, more accurately, she's a sociopath who's only really capable of regretting something if it interferes with what she wants?)

[tv echo]

I'm so sick of Rumple/Gold getting the upper hand and his smug "dearies" - I just want him to die now, but he probably won't.  After liking the Snow Queen for a few episodes, I'm now over her.  I'm tired of her "poor misunderstood me, just looking for two magical 'sisters' to love me" rationale as well.  First of all, you killed one biological sister and understandably scared off the other one.  Now the two replacement 'sisters' you want are young enough to be your daughters and have their own lives to lead, so grow up, SQ! 

 

Snow, Charming, Regina, Robin, Will, Henry, Belle, even Anna and Kristof  -- also annoying.

 

Just let Elsa, Emma (despite her gullibility) and Hook have their happy endings.

 

The only things I liked about this episode?  Elsa wasn't fooled by Ingrid.  Hook's "talking phone" comment.  Emma accepted her magic.  The mysterious Sorcerer.

[Notwisconsin]

.Goddamnit, Rumple. Leave Hook and his heart alone for fucks sake.

 

Who is Fuck and why should anyone do anything for her sake?

[MelsW]

Yay:
I loved Ingrid’s “Surprise! How was that?” to Anna in the cell.

 

Everything Emma and Elsa is fantastic. I love that friendship and am bummed these Frozen characters aren’t going to be sticking around.

 

Rumple owning his evil. He is one of the few self-aware villains this show has. He is an a-hole and he knows it.

 

Nay:
Crypt sex

 

Robin in a tank top

 

Why are they trying to shoehorn Will Scarlet into this show? I couldn’t get into that cancelled OUaT he was on so I know nothing of his backstory and really don’t care about him at all. He really has been useless so far.

 

I hate that Gold has Hook’s heart.

 

They could have shaved 15 minutes off the episode if Emma would have just “shit or get off the pot” when deciding whether or not to go through the door.

 

Confused:
I was positive Belle was going to be in the back room at Gold’s shop to overhear the whole dagger switcheroo thing.

 

Why would Emma even think about trusting Gold even for a second?

 

What exactly does this shattered sight spell mean for Storybrooke?

[maryle]

Best episode so far! with major flaw in it.

The worst; everything with the sideline St Regina soap show

Really show! the Charming are just ok with Emma in trouble so St Regina can lecture them and it is not enough ! Let SNow stop searching for her distress daughter to hear all the juicy detail of the vault sex!  

ONly light is the cannon fact that St Regina gaz lighthing her son and Charming line about the countless victims.

 

The amazing part; everything Rumple

I take out my hat to you mister R. C! for his scene with DQ,Emma and Hook.

SO intense, captivating and promising...

Promising of what the show could be if they take a darker road.They never will, so I just enjoy the

little glimpse we got.

I love Hook, he grew so much on me lately; funny Selfless, heartbreak for him.

 I hope it will get better very soon for him and his swan.

[Dani-Ellie]

Why would Emma even think about trusting Gold even for a second?

 

I think the answer to this goes back to why I was so annoyed with Snow and Charming leaving Emma to make her decision on her own in the first place: Emma wasn't rational. She was hurting her loved ones and had no clue how to stop it herself. And the more worked up she got because she had no clue how to stop it herself, the more out of control she spiraled. It wasn't, "I've thought long and hard about this and I want to give up my magic for reasons X, Y, and Z." It was, "What the hell is happening to me?! Just make it stop!"

 

I think she was just desperate and willing to believe anyone and do anything at that point, as long as it just made it stop.

[Rumsy4]

"Why would Emma even think about trusting Gold even for a second?"

That's the problem isn't it? The "heroes" believe that Regina and Rumple are not "villains" anymore, because they made grand heroic gestures. With Regina, at least something seems to have stuck. With Rumple, having temporarily lost his freedom and permanently lost his son after his sacrifice, he's decided that it was pointless to do the right thing, and has gone back to being the ruthless manipulator he always was.

He was tempted by redemption, but he is just too power-hungry to give in. People like Emma, Belle, and Snow (and even Regina) think he's on his way to redemption, and his marriage to Belle only helped seal that lie. Hook was the only one who was able to see through the farce because of his cynical nature. The rest if them bought into the fairy tale.

[Joanh23]

I have to say though I can't wait for the s**t to hit the fan when Emma and co find out what Rumple is up to….

[ImogenLeFay]

I loved and hated this episode to about same ammounts.

 

Love:

- Everything Frozen. Just everything. The Anna/Elsa bond, the backstory on how Anna actually did urn Elsa, but Elsa never lost the love to her sister, Kristoff being snarky, Anna being adorkable, and Ingrid continues to be the most amazing villain. Psycho, of course, but that's okay in a villain. When she goes on about how everybody eventually sees her as a monster, we're actually allowed to think that obviously that is because she acts like one. Unlike Regina who we're all supposed to be sorry for. And I loved how she seemed truly worried about what would happen to Emma.

And Elsa and Emma? Just perfect. I really wish Elsa could stay.

 

Loved Hook's desperate phone confession, although I expected Rumpel to turn up at the end of it to taunt him. Well, he got around to that soon enough. Side note, is it my screen or does Rumpel have really, really yellow teeth? But I do like Rumpel as a villain, so I'm fine with that storyline.

 

I'm starting to wonder if the sorcerer even exists, to be honest.

 

 

 

 

The bad?

Snowing sometimes just switch their brains off, do they?

"Hook said he'll be right back and doesn't show again. ...nothing strange here."

"Elsa has disappeared into thin air from that tiny loft. ...nope, we're not noticing that."

"Our daughter has some rushed plan to take away her magic? ...ah well, if it makes her happy, definitely nothing we should talk to her about, she'll know what she's doing." (you know you're broken when Regina has to be the voice of reason)

 

Special mention to Snow:

"My daughter is in distress... let's talk about the affair my stepmother is having with the guy whose wife is currently frozen."

"My daughter had an accident, she's close by and we can reach her. This is the perfect time to slow down and have some girl talk with Regina, not like we're hurrying to get to Emma or anything."

"We might need Regina's help with whatever is going on with Emma... but Robin Hood has something to show her RIGHT NOW!!! (which - why couldn't that wait again? Did he expect it to disappear again?) Obviously this is much more important than Emma's wellbeing!"

"I was a brat as a child, obviously this means I'm kind of evil. And killing somebody who tried to become possibly the most powerful dark magical being in existance with a huge grudge against my family, that is obviously horrible too! Sure, Regina did some more evil things, but that can be forgiven too. Cause she's come so far! It's been like a week since she wanted to murder somebody!"

 

And everything Outlaw Queen ist just the worst. I do get that he moved on from Marian - but does he even like her anymore? Doesn't he care at all about his son's mother living? Because to me it seems like he only sees Marian's return as a complication of his love life, and doesn't even care about Marian's right not be be murdered by Regina, or his son having his mother in his life...

 

Don't even get me started on the whole book thing. That doesn't even pretend to make sense.

 

 

So, mixed feelings, but I think I'll stick to the positive and just ignore every scene and word of Robin, Regina, and yes, also Snow.

...I'm so already dreading what's going to happen once Frozen is over.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Are we going to meet the Sorcerer or is the "apprentice" the sorcerer himself? Though I don't think he'd have let himself be sucked into the hat if he was.

 

Yes, I think the apprentice is the sorcerer.  He could have resistance to the magic-sucking hat, thus let himself be sucked in because he's working the long game on Rumple and everybody.  He's got the ancient-gravitas-Gandalf thing going on.  I'm slightly interested in this plot, but once the icy people are gone, there's not much else to interest me.  Emma will gain control of herself, Captain Swan will prevail sooner or later, Regina will be pregnant in true soap fashion, Snow will get remedial life coaching from Regina, and so on.