S44.E13: Absolute Banger Season

[Whimsy]

Quote

The remaining five castaways must climb their way to victory in the immunity challenge to earn a feast at the sanctuary and a spot in the final four. Also, one castaway will be crowned Sole Survivor.

Original Airdate 5/24/23

Season finale & Reunion

[Guest]

Jaime beaming at everyone from the jury and wearing her best Mary Ann cosplay at the final TC 🥰 (though I would have liked to have heard something from her and Brandon instead of Carson asking a question for the hundredth time)

Well this won't be among my favorite seasons (and Yam Yam was my last choice out of the final 3) but it was a big damn improvement from last season. I could tell what the hell was going on and there was a nice lack of malice, too.

[LadyChatts]

Yam Yam as a winner made sense, but also left me feeling meh and disappointed.  I feel like more was left out of his edit to maybe make it suspenseful.  Truthfully, none of the finalists had a great showing.  Heidi seemed like she wanted to talk too much and didn't come off as good as I expected.  I’m not surprised Carolyn got no votes, except I thought she might get one from Carson or Frannie.  Which, Carson would go for the person who played the best game for sure, but Frannie seemed like a Carolyn cheerleader.  I just feel like the editing of winners in this new era is weird.  He’s not the worst but I feel like I’ll remember him more for his petty attitude than anything else (although he did provide some good TH this season).  But Erika was invisible, Gabler had no real arc, and this final 3 was just there.

As to the finale: I knew Lauren was going at 5, because I couldn’t believe they’d give her that soapbox to stand on if she wasn’t going then.  I could believe she was trying to make the other castaways feel/look bad or create some kind of chaos where they wouldn’t vote for her, but I’m happy she made it to the final 5 and got some decent screen time post merge.  Nice girl who is likable and a decent player at the game, so I hope she returns, as I think she could come back stronger.  I wasn’t a big Carson fan, but I did feel for him that fire was his kryptonite.  He actually did better than I was expecting, so if Heidi hadn’t been as fast as she was, he might have pulled off an upset.  I’m sure he’ll get an invite back, but he might not do as well as in a season of newbies.  As to the jury, Brandon looked like he was checking for the nearest exit, I forgot Kane was there, Danny is no Joe Cool, Jamie is a basket of sunshine, Lauren and Frannie are just lovely, and Matt has a smile that I'll miss.  

Other thoughts: I don’t care what Jeff says, the sanctuary “where life is good” is just another way of saying “we can’t even get Applebee’s to sponsor us anymore”.  I hate the fire making challenge, and I hope someone ruins Probst’s infatuation with it so he scraps it.  I also miss the drama-no one needs to be a grade A a-hole, but let’s have a little bitterness.  In all, an okay season that will probably fade away after a while.  It is an upgrade from last season, so I’ll give it that.  Jamie’s reaction at finding out her idol was fake was priceless.  I hope Matt and Frannie make it.  Carolyn is my winner.  Until next season!

Edited May 25, 2023 by LadyChatts

[North of Eden]

This has got to be some kind of sick joke, right? Are you F'ing kidding me?! A baby-talking idiot, the goat, the wishy-washy coat-tail-riding fool is the winner? How can this be happening? And Carolyn, no votes and only one player respecting a gutsy (but reckless move of making fire when you didn't have to?).

Worst winner ever...no question, no contest.

I love Matt and Frannie, but Carolyn was the MVP of the season, and the only thing that made it worth watching and this is the payoff. They have to bring her back its the only way to right this.

I can't even bring myself to watch the reunion show just yet...I'm still so stunned...I just can't force myself. Maybe tomorrow.

A couple of quick notes: Did Carson build the ball challenge in his backyard? Time to retire this for many years to come. I was like, "This again?!" Find something else from the backlist or make a new one.

What's with Brandon? Not speaking at the jury? It was mostly all Carson talking.

Sorry, Jeff, but bitter juries are way more fun than Kumbya dullards.

Anyway dismal ending to a not good season. See you all in the BB Forums....in August!! :(

[Skooma]

I was fine with any of the Three Stooges winning though Carolyn was my first choice for sure.  But Yam Yam made the best presentation at the Finale which won him the game and  I understand that.  I think the viewing public got to see more of what Carolyn did then the contestants at that time of voting.

Any of those three deserved to win.  Too bad they all couldn't win a million.  All three were masters of this game!

In a couple of weeks I will still remember Carolyn and Yam Yam and that there was a sweet young token nerd guy though I don't know if the name of Carson will be retained per se. 

I definitely won't remember anybody else.  Some seasons I can't even remember the winner.  Actually most season.  But this season The Three Stooges I will remember.  They were iconic.  It was a really good and thankfully positive season without the bitterness crap most seasons are saddled with.  So thumbs up all the way around.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skooma

[Carey]

TBH, I don't think any of the Final 3 were in the spot of a clear winner, nor were the 3 a clear loser.  Carolyn getting no votes while the vote was not a sweep is the way the Final 3 has been for the most part since 2006.

Though I think Yam Yam and Carolyn went in opposite directions, so the outcome was not a surprise.

As for Heidi, too little too late.  This might have worked had she done more in the game.  Had she kept immunity and took a chance that Carson wins over Yam Yam, she still doesn't win.

Good season, but not Top Ten or Top 5

[susannot]

I'll say what I said on the live thread:  I'm happy with Yam Yam's win.  He was a ray of sunshine and a delight throughout the show.  He was entertaining.  He made the jury laugh from his very first appearance.  I agree with his final jury speech: he was not good at challenges or finding idols but he was good at talking to people.  He was, he talked to everyone, at all times.  Isn't that what Survivor is about?  Making relationships with people so they will vote for you in the end.  Bravo Yam Yam.  I think he played a great game.

[Skooma]

3 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Worst winner ever...no question, no contest.

And I think one of the best winners ever.  I think Carolyn would have been better and possibly Carson too but kudos to all three.  Yam-Yam is certainly a very good winner.

[willco]

While I'm not the biggest fan of Carolyn, the fact that she got no votes is just complete BS, imo. She certainly knew what was going on in the game and since she got no votes tells me that we really aren't seeing the right things during the game. I'll never believe that Yam Yam played a better game, so there must be something else. Which is kind of how I felt after last season- I couldn't believe who won because what the show decided was important to show didn't tell that story. I'm sure someone can say it better, but that's my beef.

[TVFan1]

Yam Yam totally deserved to win. At least I can see why most of the jury voted for him, unlike last season. He wasn't my favorite to win, but I'm glad he won with who was left. The way he talked to everybody at FTC was very well done and with him building relationships with everyone. 

Again, a great winner to me.

[violet and green]

Oh, I am bummed Carolyn not only didn't win but got no votes. Yam Yam has played a solid social game and when he took Carson under his wing and coached him for the fire-making, while acknowledging he could be tanking his own game if he was put up against Carson at fire, I melted. I would have rather Carolyn or Carson had won out of the Tika three, and really hope Sia is warming up her checkbook writing hand to fire off some money to Carolyn, and ideally both of them.

The Tika three made this season so enjoyable. I loved not having the studio audience cutaways, and just Jeff on the island introducing the finale episodes, and that was the warmest, funnest reunion in memory. A really good season. Come on Sia, make it perfect!

[Jules1]

I already like the cast for next season better than this season. This one was boring. When I can only recall the names of two people in the final 5, that’s a bad sign.

[LadyChatts]

24 minutes ago, susannot said:

I'll say what I said on the live thread:  I'm happy with Yam Yam's win.  He was a ray of sunshine and a delight throughout the show.  He was entertaining.  He made the jury laugh from his very first appearance.  I agree with his final jury speech: he was not good at challenges or finding idols but he was good at talking to people.  He was, he talked to everyone, at all times.  Isn't that what Survivor is about?  Making relationships with people so they will vote for you in the end.  Bravo Yam Yam.  I think he played a great game.

See, I hate social gamers, and maybe that's my problem with him.  I'd rather see strategic players win.  Sure, some can argue that being socially good is also strategic, but it depends on the player, too.  Some castaways are just naturally going to bond with others and be drawn to those who maybe are similar to them.  People thought Carolyn was eccentric and couldn't believe she was capable of making the moves or having the reads she was actually having.  Survivor has, for the most part, always been a popularity contest.  People lost because of bitter juries.  I believe people lost because a jury could accept losing to one finalist over another.  And with all the idols, advantages, and now fire making in this game, good old fashioned strategy doesn't really exist.  Tika ran this thing because no one took them seriously, and you had stubborn mules like Brandon and Danny that wouldn't listen to their allies about making the right moves.  The way the jury droned on, I think their minds were made up.  He's not the worst winner, but I wouldn't rank him anywhere near the top.  He's just floating in the middle for me.  

[Lantern7]

I think the real villains this season were the editors. They turned a lot of us into Carolyn addicts, she was shown carrying the season, and she didn’t get one vote. As lovably adorkable as Frannie was, voting for Yam Yam sucked on her part, since she was giving Carolyn most of her attention during FTC.

Yam Yam winning doesn’t big me. Getting seven of eight votes? That’s the real puzzler. Looks like Heidi’s play was the difference between second and third-place money. Less effective than What’s-His-Face winning S38 after sacrificing immunity on Day 38.

I feel bad for Carolyn and Carson. I figure those two needed to process the full season over time, as opposed to in the last day. Carson trained so hard on fire-making, and Heidi basically smoked him in record time. He needed a Reunion and face time with Cochran. And Carolyn deserved an audience for making this season fun to watch.

I know Matt & Frannie are still a couple, but wouldn’t it be too early to declare them as such at that time? Lovely people, probably going to wind up on TAR one day. Then maybe TAR could get a little promotion. I just got so tired of the Big Brother teasers. A guy can only take so much.

[violet and green]

2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I think the real villains this season were the editors. They turned a lot of us into Carolyn addicts, she was shown carrying the season, and she didn’t get one vote.

Spot on. I feel like I am in withdrawals from the fun of Carolyn surviving on Survivor every week. I hope some of those jurors are second guessing their votes after watching the season we all saw, where Carolyn was anything but a passenger.

[Artsda]

That was a horrible final 3. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I did feel disappointed with Yam Yam's win, but I don't think he was the worst we've seen, especially of this new era. I fully get why he won, and I had a feeling at one point that if he got to F3, he'd be able to charm the jury into believing he was the best player to win. Overall, I think his FTC was just average (though so was Carolyn and Heidi's). I think the F3 were fine, overall, they just didn't really stand out. Carolyn stood out moreso because of her personality. I think all three answered decently, but not spectacular.

But I didn't really love the season to begin with, or think that these were the greatest players ever. They were all just kind of there for me, except for Carolyn. For once, the show really got me with the edit. They really did make me love Carolyn, even though I knew her social game wasn't strong enough to win. Curse the show for editing Carolyn really well and then taking that away right at the end. And I'm not usually drawn to the players with personalities like Carolyn. I think it helped that she WAS strategic and intuitive (my favourite type of player), but people just kept overlooking her time and time again. 

The season is better edited than last season, at least. I understood why Yam Yam won, which is a major step-up from Gabler's win last season. But still, I think it was tough because they really did make Carolyn likeable and the fan favourite, knowing that she was a zero vote finalist the entire time.

I will try to pick on some positives for Yam Yam's win. At least we got another unique winner who really stands out apart from the 30s season winners. Yam Yam is the first openly LGBTQIA+ winner in years, and one of the few POC male winners. Like Carson, I like statistics and facts, and it was a very unique F3. 

I don't think any of them were bad players, just unmemorable, for the most part. Not great gameplay this season, but some unique characters. Unfortunately, only a very select few who I would like to see return (Carolyn, Frannie, and maybe Lauren?).

Good on Heidi for beating Gabler's record time for firemaking, at least. Heidi was poorly edited all season, unfortunately. Because she wasn't a character like Yam Yam or Carolyn, she faded into the background. Plus, I think her arguing during FTC didn't help matters. I get standing up for herself; but her arguments were disproven a couple of times.

It does bum me out that it seems like, once again, the decision on the winner was almost unanimously decided beforehand. Nobody seemed interested in Carolyn's answers besides Frannie, and it seemed like, with the near unanimous vote, the decision to vote for Yam Yam was already set in stone. Nobody seemed like they were legitimately being swayed. MAYBE Frannie because it seems like she was between Yam Yam and throwing a pity vote for Carolyn. Similarly to last season, when it was clear the jury had cast their votes before they had to cast their votes (I remember last season was a LOT of self-boasting from the jury; like, sit down, jurors, you've been voted out. Your games were not all that, so focus on the F3 and stop talking about yourselves and how good you were at the game and how you got voted out because you were such threats), it did seem like Yam Yam was going to win from the moment Carson was gone. 

Even with Heidi's big move, it seemed like the jurors went through the motions of asking Heidi questions in the hopes that she may be able to sway them but her answers were very pandery and felt fake. If I could feel the pandering, I bet the jury could too, and there's a difference between pandering and appealing to the jury. Heidi was spewing answers, but wasn't connecting with the jury. 

I just wish we had more uncertain votes and it wasn't basically unanimous, besides Danny throwing a friendship vote onto Heidi. And I wish they actually listened to Carolyn instead of dismissing her. It felt like they never truly gave her a shot. The only person we see address Carolyn directly for questions is Frannie and then Danny once. 

Oh well, it's a shame, but we could have had a worse winner. I'll get over my disappointment eventually, especially when I think back to last season's WTF winner, and I fully get why he won.

Onto season 45, I guess!

[dancingdreamer]

I always thought Heidi was tough, turns out she really was.
I am thrilled Yam Yam won, him teaching Carson to make fire, touched my heart.  Poor Carson,  all his insecurities  came back to haunt him. Watching  this back, I hope he knows just how smart  he is.
Caroline, love you girl! 

The comradarie  and positivity  this season, made it for me.

Season 45 in the fall.!! 

[30 Helens]

Heading to the the final TC, I was worried about Carolyn’s final pitch. Because I didn’t think she truly understood her superpower, which was camouflaging her strategic skills with a ditzy exterior. And I was right. She argued that she had been underestimated, which is true, but she didn’t do enough to show them how truly incisive and canny her moves were. Repeating the story of how she found her idol and created a diversion would have been useful here.

This isn’t the first time I wished I could make a Survival finalist’s case for them. But I can’t fault the jury for rewarding the contestant who made the actual best pitch in the moment. And this season, that was Yam-Yam. So, good for him? 

Carolyn did not make a good case for herself. Heidi failed to stick the landing. Carson somehow got designated jury leader? (Seriously, what was up with that?) It was a slightly disappointing end to a pretty good season, but I don’t hate Yam-Yam, (seriously, how sweet was the Mr. Miyagi-style fire tutelage of Carson?) so I guess I’m good.

[Skooma]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I think the real villains this season were the editors.

I don't think so because I think they saw what the contestants didn't.  That Carolyn WAS playing a good game and should get the credit she deserved at least on the broadcast show.  Also she was a real personality that they knew fans would love.  So bravo to the editors from me.

The contestants didn't get to see all she did like the editors saw.  And she wasn't capable of showcasing her moves at the Final Tribal Council except the last bit to getting Danny out.  If she could have been spot on in her other responses like the one to Danny she might have had a chance but she has a hard time speaking in that way. 

Yam-Yam, on the other hand, was very good there and it won him the game or at least gave him a near shutout sweep.  (I think if Carolyn could have made a better case she might have gotten Frannie's vote at least).

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skooma

[Valerie]

Ew. Second season in a row where I’m not even watching the after show. 

[Steph Sometimes]

Last season's Final 3 was so meh. I'm not going to say I hated them (I hated 39's Final 3), but they were just so nothing to me. I still don't know how Gabler won (although I wasn't impressed by the other two either). Just meh.

This season wasn't meh for me. I liked this Final 3. I found Carolyn and Yam Yam entertaining (and enjoyed the Tika 3), and Heidi was fine. I would probably put this season as whole behind 42 in the post-40 games. Entertaining people with no one I hated.

I wish Frannie had gone further. I really enjoyed her. And I think she and Matt are adorable.

Were Carson and Frannie the only ones on the jury?

[pythonite]

Carolyn made this season watchable for me. No live audience, no fan favorite makes it a big let down. 

 

[PaperTree]

Well that was disappointing, but not surprising.  

Forward we move!

[Fretful]

4 hours ago, Artsda said:

That was a horrible final 3. 

Who would you have preferred?    I think either Carson or Lauren might  have won had they made it to the end, but I think Yam Yam beats anyone else on the jury.

[Ellee]

With all of Carson’s preparation for playing Survivor … he didn’t  practice/nail making fires???   Yeah … I don’t believe it. 
 

Also, when they do the fire competition isn’t it always the person closest to Jeff the winner?  Seems like it’s always that particular station but what do I know …

[JudyObscure]

I've never really liked how often the winner of Survivor depends on how good they are at bragging about themselves.  The jury has spent many long days and nights with these people, they should have a very good idea before the final of who they think was playing the best game.  The jury knew how clever Carolyn had been about her idol, they saw her wonderful personality, her gutsiness during challenges, her work getting out Danny and others, and her great, positive attitude through out.  Why should she lose so many votes to Yam Yam just because he told a good story about himself?  I did like how kind he was to Carson.  

Honorable mention should be made to Lauren's fabulous hair.  It went through mud, water and jungle snags, and always sprang back like a wonderful miracle.

 

 

[Nozycat]

51 minutes ago, Ellee said:

With all of Carson’s preparation for playing Survivor … he didn’t  practice/nail making fires???

He said he did practice it but he wasn't doing it right.

[awaken]

7 hours ago, North of Eden said:

This has got to be some kind of sick joke, right? Are you F'ing kidding me?! A baby-talking idiot, the goat, the wishy-washy coat-tail-riding fool is the winner? How can this be happening? And Carolyn, no votes and only one player respecting a gutsy (but reckless move of making fire when you didn't have to?).

Worst winner ever...no question, no contest.

I love Matt and Frannie, but Carolyn was the MVP of the season, and the only thing that made it worth watching and this is the payoff. They have to bring her back its the only way to right this.

I can't even bring myself to watch the reunion show just yet...I'm still so stunned...I just can't force myself. Maybe tomorrow.

A couple of quick notes: Did Carson build the ball challenge in his backyard? Time to retire this for many years to come. I was like, "This again?!" Find something else from the backlist or make a new one.

What's with Brandon? Not speaking at the jury? It was mostly all Carson talking.

Sorry, Jeff, but bitter juries are way more fun than Kumbya dullards.

Anyway dismal ending to a not good season. See you all in the BB Forums....in August!! :(

This is how I felt last season with the Gabler win. Just totally dismal and I’m still disappointed about it. However, I like YamYam so this season I’m happy 😊 

[Haleth]

Wow.  I completely forgot this was on.  And the finale at that.  Seeing that YamYam won doesn't make me want to look for it.  Good for him, I guess.  

[Matty]

Excellent season. The members of the jury played the game with the final three and they voted for Yam Yam. That can't be disputed. They respected his game, liked him and his sense of humor.  Heidi immediately chose to take Carolyn with her to the final tribal council because she knew there was a good chance she wouldn't get the votes and she was right. I knew as soon as Lauren finished her speech she was going to the jury. That was such a good speech she should have saved it for the jury vote and she would have gotten some votes. Heidi knew that and let her go. I enjoyed Carolyn. She always made me laugh. She didn't get any jury votes but she ended up in the final three and was always entertaining. Carson got taken down by fire but he played a good game and was a memorable Survivor character.

Yam Yam was not an athletic, muscle bound, challenge beast. He never found an idol, but he knows how to play the social game brilliantly. As he explained, he takes the time to listen and to read people. He can tell when people are telling the truth and when they are lying. The jury gave him the million dollars because they appreciated the game he played.

I've watched every Survivor season since the Richard Hatch days and this cast ranks right up there as one of the best group of players. The "Three Stooges" - a gay, non-athletic man, a recovered alcoholic who was considered "weird" her whole life and a self-described nerd kid. A group of misfits that played together, stayed true to themselves and to each other. Yam Yam helping Carson with making fire. Carolyn cheering for Carson and Yam Yam at challenges. I'm getting sappy. I'll stop.

[AncientNewbie]

There should be a reward challenge near the end of the season where you win dinner with an attorney to help prepare your case if you make it to the final. I am willing to go hang out in Fiji and wait for the contestants. 

I'm good with the final and the winner. I didn't think Yam Yam had it going into the final, but he really worked the jury well and presented a consistent narrative. I think that was probably Carolyn's weakness, a la Amanda Kimmel--strong play all season, inability to sell the narrative. 

[seacliffsal]

I really think the "new era" of only 26 days has really hurt the show.  The extra 13 days (2 weeks!) is where, IMO, the real hardships of the experienced developed.  This seems more like "summer camp" survivor, and watching the previews for that new summer camp reality show they are promoting just really reinforces this to me.  They're not as hungry, tired, grumpy, etc., and so there is a different dynamic to the show and to the final tribal council.  They didn't even sleep in shelters this time-every time we saw them at night they were all sleeping outside on the sand/dirt.  Yes, there are still hardships, but the shorter timeframe has altered the game considerably.  

I have read through all of the live chat and this thread and it is really apparent that I am on an island of one: I ended up really not like Carolyn.  I just can't take her screaming during every single challenge (except the underwater challenge...).  They gave her kudos for 'persevering' through the challenges, but didn't they all persevere through the challenges?  The difference was that she continually called attention to herself and how 'hard' the challenges were for her.  So, she was rewarded/acknowledged for her efforts because she continually called attention to herself whereas others just got on with it and completed the challenges.  She kept claiming being emotional, but one can still express one's emotions without continually calling all attention to oneself.

I grew to like Carson more and more throughout the season so was surprised when I was sad that he was out.  However, I laughed during the FTC as it was like he was feeding answers to both Carolyn and Yam Yam.

The whole 'give up immunity and make fire' strategy goes back to Extinction Island (or something like that) when that one guy was voted out early, won his way back into the game at the end when he gave up his immunity to make fire and won (which many of us really resented as he beat out people who suffered during the entire game [39 days!]).  I really think if one wants to emphasize their strategic ability, one would state "I won immunity and am going to the final three and there is no way I would risk that by going to fire..."

Oh well, I guess "new era Survivor" is also the "era of unpredictable winners."

[Scatterbrained]

A while back Frannie requested recommendations for Amazing Race seasons to watch.  I suspect the showmance will be hitting the road soon.  I love watching the Amazing Race, mainly because I enjoy armchair traveling the world (wish I could do t for real).  What would really love to see is the 3 Stooges on the race.  I think they would be highly entertaining as long as they didn’t loose on the first or second leg.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I grew to like Carson more and more throughout the season so was surprised when I was sad that he was out.  However, I laughed during the FTC as it was like he was feeding answers to both Carolyn and Yam Yam.

He was straight-up coaching Carolyn, making "OK" gestures, nodding deliberately when she was saying something he thought she should be saying and encouraging her to keep going with that statement. I wasn't laughing at it - I thought it was annoying and kind of condescending, tbh. Especially considering that he didn't even vote for her.

I did laugh during the aftershow when Danny was talking about Matt and Frannie, and said "some couples are cool separately but annoying together - but these two are the opposite!" I knew what he meant, but it sounded like he was saying they were annoying separately 😆

[dizzyd]

47 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

A while back Frannie requested recommendations for Amazing Race seasons to watch.  I suspect the showmance will be hitting the road soon.  I love watching the Amazing Race, mainly because I enjoy armchair traveling the world (wish I could do t for real).  What would really love to see is the 3 Stooges on the race.  I think they would be highly entertaining as long as they didn’t loose on the first or second leg.

This pairing has felt very lopsided to me with Fran being the brains and the brawn so I don’t see them being a success in TAR compared to Claire and Derek. 

This show has become very stale to me with the skimping of the budget, the recycling of challenges, the chaotic over abundance of idols/advantages, the overall meh casting. Why is US Survivor suffering through these challenges when Australian Survivor doesn’t? Their last season was 47 days, they change locations with seasons and they were able to keep the challenges and narrative fresh without the twists seeming annoying or boring and most of their past contestants have been memorable and I felt invested in them whereas here not many have made an impact in recent seasons and I couldn’t even put in the effort to comment on much this season. 

Of the F3, I knew YY would win bc he is good at expressing himself. I knew Carolyn wouldn't be successful in making the jury see what she did to deserve the win and we honestly didn’t see much of Heidi to know if she’d be good at FTC or even did enough to be deserving.

I was hoping 45 would be the kids of former players. When is that happening?

Edited May 25, 2023 by dizzyd

[Jeanne222]

Heidi made a big move with the fire.  Carolyn entertained me all season.  Yamyam for the win really surprised me.  Not my choice for sure!

[Whimsy]

Some posts have been removed.  There is a way to express your opinion and/or disagree with other posters in a civil manner that encourages and garners discussion without being rude or derailing discussion. Discussing alternate functions you feel the website should have to express an emotion or desired response is not on topic to this episode. 

[fishcakes]

I would have voted against Heidi just because she opted to make fire. I understand why Chris did it in the Exile Island season because he had spent almost no time in the main game and needed something on his resume, but for Heidi, it was an unnecessary risk. She was in the game the entire season and everyone knew her game; fire wasn't going to make a difference. Even so, I was pretty sure she would beat Carson at it because the one thing I knew about her came from the first episode when she made fire quickly on the first day out there. Then she became almost invisible for several weeks and every time I saw her, I'd go, "who is ... ? oh, right fire girl." So it was a dumb move by her but a nice callback by the editors.

I would have been happy with any of the Tika 3 winning, and I am happy about Yam Yam, especially after how sweet and helpful he was when Carson was losing it over trying to make fire, but I feel just the tiniest bit let down that Carolyn didn't get any votes. She was a good player, and I thought her jury performance was not great but better than Heidi's. Heidi was mostly giving a prepared speech and trying to flatter the jurors, which at least worked on Danny whose question was pretty much, "you rode my coattails to get to the end, right?" and Heidi's response was basically, "yes, I used you as a shield because you are so much more awesome than me. Thank you for your question."

The reunion show was fun. Jaime being absolutely delighted over the fake idol, Yam Yam and Carolyn finding out about Carson's connection with NASA, Brandon regaining the power of speech. You can tell this is a group of people that genuinely like each other.

[needschocolate]

5 hours ago, Ellee said:

With all of Carson’s preparation for playing Survivor … he didn’t  practice/nail making fires???   Yeah … I don’t believe it. 

I believe Carson said that he practiced at home and was able to make fire in 3 minutes, but it wasn't working on the island and he lost his confidence.

I thought it was interesting that Carson mentioned, more than once, how Heidi made her fire in the fastest time ever in a final tribal.  I felt like he was trying to make himself feel better about losing.  He wasn't far behind her and, if he had been making fire against a previous final-tribal-fire-maker, he may have won.  

[JudyObscure]

11 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

The reunion show was fun. Jaime being absolutely delighted over the fake idol,

She's such a hoot.  If she were a little bit more famous I could picture SNL doing a sketch of, "Jamie at Home," beaming over every little thing that happened and  bursting with pride over a burnt roast because she had turned it into a, "Very special treat for the dog."

Then they could do one of Carolyn at home; people standing outside her house, deciding to call 911 because they hear her screaming and swearing, only to find out she was just trying to get the fitted sheet over the mattress corners.

I can't remember a season when I laughed so much.

[iMonrey]

Quote

[Carolyn] certainly knew what was going on in the game and since she got no votes tells me that we really aren't seeing the right things during the game. I'll never believe that Yam Yam played a better game, so there must be something else. Which is kind of how I felt after last season- I couldn't believe who won because what the show decided was important to show didn't tell that story.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Carolyn was the star of the season. The audience just seemed to love her and think she was playing the best game. The very first episode opened with a random confessional by her. The show was hitting us over the head with how much they loved Carolyn and that she was the one to watch. The audience was convinced she would win given her edit.

To be fair, Yam Yam got a fair share of screen time too, but again mostly because he was a "character" rather than any particular game play. Meanwhile Heidi and Lauren were treated as also-rans despite making it all the way into the final five. I never got a sense of their game or their personalities, they were just sort of floating along.

So clearly the show is more interested in showing us what they think is the most entertaining part. The problem with that is we're not seeing the same things the jury has seen. We're watching a story the editors put together rather than what's ultimately driving the jury's decision. It's sort of a manufactured version of what's actually going on.

There's something about Yam Yam I found mostly insufferable. I know a lot of people found Carson arrogant and cocky but I saw those qualities in Yam Yam, in equal measure. I would have preferred almost anyone over him. Maybe even Danny.

I also think it's interesting that two of the final three had won only one individual immunity challenge, and the other, zero. And I think this points to how all the different twists, advantages and idols have stripped away any real strategy from the game and making it to the final three is merely a matter of stumble-fucking your way there. The game is playing the players rather than the other way around.

Production really needs to take a fresh look at this game because it has gotten really stale with the recycled challenges and endless idols.

[Nashville]

Yawn.  I’m going to ASSume the best parts of Yam^2’s game got left on the cutting room floor, because IMHO the broadcast didn’t show me anything in Yam’s game to warrant a near-unanimous Jury vote.  Not that the other two weren’t giving Yam a HUGE assist, mind you:

• Carolyn had a golden ticket printed with her name on it with her “emotional doesn’t mean NOT strategic” pitch - personally I thought it had the potential to be a historic pitch - but she totally whiffed on her delivery.
• And Heidi…?  Heidi pulled a total Helen; you simply can’t wait until ~80% of the Jury is out of line-of-sight to start playing your game.  Did get Heidi into F3, though, so I reckon it counts for something; congratulations on #2 money!

Heidi - congrats on the new fire-building record, tho; well-earned, and well-deserved.

 

11 hours ago, Jules1 said:

When I can only recall the names of two people in the final 5, that’s a bad sign.

When I can only recall the names of two people in the final 3, then that’s a REALLY bad sign.

 

5 hours ago, Ellee said:

With all of Carson’s preparation for playing Survivor … he didn’t  practice/nail making fires???   Yeah … I don’t believe it. 

Carson did practice making fire at home, and said so (last episode, at the 52:22 time mark):

It’s so weird; I could make fire in three minutes at home with a flint and machete, but here I’m struggling.

I suspect Carson simply got into his own head on the firemaking.

[Taeolas]

I think Yam-Yam's win feels like it came out of no where (at least to me) because his game style isn't really TV-friendly. He plays a very low-key social game, based on knowing people, staying on the edge of the radar but not really drawing attention to himself (positive or negative). So it isn't really something that would be visible on the TV, but to the jury, especially as he pointed it out during the Tribunal, it would be more obvious how he was the behind the scenes manipulator, knowing how votes may or may not be going and never obviously panicking along the way. 

Combine that with a bombastic personality that does tend to draw a lot of Camera attention like Carolyn, and you end up with Yam-Yam seeming to be a non-player through the game.

[meep.meep]

12 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

 The way the jury droned on, I think their minds were made up.  

You mean the way Carson droned on?  Why was he allowed to dominate the jury discussions?  A couple of people didn't ask any questions.

[Nashville]

9 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

You mean the way Carson droned on?  Why was he allowed to dominate the jury discussions?  A couple of people didn't ask any questions.

IIRC Production has historically granted extra leeway to the latest juror, simply because they are by definition also the least-informed juror; they’re having to play some serious catch-up in their transition from competitor to juror, and only have a couple of hours to do so before the vote.

[Shermie]

Jamie has such a sunshine-y personality, she was literally wearing sunflowers at one point.

I don’t get the Survivor-ishness of the ball challenge. All the other challenges have some level of survival skills incorporated - climbing, swimming, working together, knot tying/untying, digging, even puzzles after a physical part of the challenge incorporate the brainpower part of surviving.

But the ball challenge is just a giant version of a kid’s marble run. My kids had one, it’s great entertainment but its real value is the engineering to build it properly. Maybe the contestants should have to assemble the ball puzzle first, then put the balls through it. That’s an actual challenge.

When some posters mentioned Sia money, I didn’t realize they literally meant the chandelier singer. Okay, then.

I’m assuming Carolyn and Carson will be asked to come back so there’s that. I doubt I’ll watch the show again. This was my first watch in many years and it was entertaining but I think it was enough of that for another 5 years.

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I really think the "new era" of only 26 days has really hurt the show.  The extra 13 days (2 weeks!) is where, IMO, the real hardships of the experienced developed.  This seems more like "summer camp" survivor, and watching the previews for that new summer camp reality show they are promoting just really reinforces this to me.  They're not as hungry, tired, grumpy, etc., and so there is a different dynamic to the show and to the final tribal council.  They didn't even sleep in shelters this time-every time we saw them at night they were all sleeping outside on the sand/dirt.  Yes, there are still hardships, but the shorter timeframe has altered the game considerably.  

Yes.  I didn’t notice it so much the first two seasons, but last season and now this season it’s more obvious.  With this short time frame, it’s basically challenge/scramble/TC, challenge/scramble/TC, and just keep hitting repeat.  There’s no down time, little time for strategizing, idols and advantages are becoming more of an interference, there’s no time for the struggle or paranoia to really set in.  To put it into perspective, Na’Onka and Purple Kelly quit on day 28-two days after new era Survivor would have wrapped.  S16’s Kathy, who I always consider one of the poster children for production not screening contestants more throughly, quit on day 19.  That’s 7 days before filming ends in new era.  I think there are other things hurting the show (3 tribes, an abundance of idols and advantages that so far have been busts and are getting into production trying to make things happen, the shorter time frame, people losing their vote thanks to ship wheel island, the fire making F4, and I never thought I’d be saying this, but I miss themed seasons).  Also, I hate this jury format.  But from what Probst says, none of this is going away anytime soon.  Either due to budget reasons, or because he likes it.  Although I don’t really understand his logic in not being able to find a deserted location.  For COVID they were willing to shoot in the US if they had to, and other international versions don’t seem to have that problem.   

[HurricaneVal]

Oooooof, Heidi.....  She built up a fantastic end-game resume there, but I have never seen anyone totally strike out at Final Tribal Council like that.  She went into that FTC on the highest high, with momentum on her side, and totally tanked it.  She was so stiff, so corporate.  She looked like the head of HR at a mediation session.  No warmth, slightly combative with the interrupting, all starchy and austere.  I don't know if that was a choice, to seem more controlled because she knew Carolyn would be flailing all over, and she wanted to provide a measured contrast, or if she just had some sort of stage fright or performance anxiety.  I wonder if she'd been more exuberant "Hey!  Look what I did, y'all!" if she'd have received more votes?

Carolyn also totally whiffed FTC.  Maybe Carson losing at fire and leaving the game left her grieving.  Maybe with her history, she got too much into her head and thought "I'm not good enough" and kind of gave up.  The Carolyn at FTC looked kind of defeated.  She had no game.  She was never all that great at expressing herself with finessed articulation, but somehow with all the spasmodic movements and dramatic facial expressions and vocal explosions, she managed to get her point across and actually be quite insightful.  The problem was, nobody really saw past the flailing.  I warmed up to Carolyn in the mid-to-late game, I saw that she was hiding in plain sight.  Carolyn had quite the Survivor FTC resume, all it took was an inspired FTC performance to tick off everything she did under their noses, and she might have taken it.  Or at least been a little competitive with Yam Yam. 

I really have no issues with Yam Yam winning.  He never lost sight of the game.  Sure, he could be petty, but he's human.  In the past, we've all seen the huge alpha males absolutely raging back at camp for people daring--daring!--to write their name down and then go on witch hunts to find the traitors.  Getting votes certainly needled Yam Yam, and there was certainly a time during the early game and just after the merge when I thought he'd be voted out, but he always managed to turn the tide.  Yam Yam was managing his end game from the start.  He took the time to make relationships with everyone.  He was kind and a little goofy and I really do think his behind the scenes machinations and manipulations steered a lot of the game.  And where he couldn't steer, he surfed.  He and Carolyn made a great duo, and out of everyone there, I think he recognized that Carolyn had a great strategic mind under all the big personality.  That was his strength, his insight into people, which gave him a huge advantage.  His social game gave him the win. 

That said, this season was not Survivor for me.  This was "The Yam Yam and Carolyn Show" with weekly guest stars.  I did not like this at all.  I think the editors got lazy, took a break, and just let the big personalities dominate.  Good editors can make stories out of small moments from B-roll footage.  Sure, they had their moments when they showed their cleverness--that reward trip with Carolyn, Brandon, and Danny was well cut together, and gave us one of the first clues that Carolyn was not the ditz she appears, and was really quite emotionally intelligent and getting more and more frustrated by the minute.  But overall, while the editors may have shown us the path to the win, that was essentially all they showed us.  Oh, and the showmance, which.....blech.  This ain't Big Brother. 

Sigh.  I miss a bitter jury.  I need a good, heartfelt, teeth clenched, stony eyed "rat and snake" speech.

Edited May 25, 2023 by HurricaneVal
Oops, apparently I used a no-no word. Sorry!

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Nashville said:

IIRC Production has historically granted extra leeway to the latest juror, simply because they are by definition also the least-informed juror; they’re having to play some serious catch-up in their transition from competitor to juror, and only have a couple of hours to do so before the vote.

I don't remember it being noticeable before that the latest juror got extra leeway, aka more time to talk. And for most of the show's run, every juror got one question each - no extra leeway granted.

But even if the show did do it this way, this reasoning doesn't make sense to me. The latest juror isn't the least-informed - they've been there for all the tribal councils, too, as a player. Plus they were actually in the game longer than the other jurors, so they're really the most-informed juror. I could see the quick turnaround from competitor to juror being a little jarring, but how much "serious catch-up" is really needed, and why does that translate into "letting them ask more questions than anyone else"?

It's more likely that either Carson just jumped in more, given his game-long ties to Yam Yam and Carolyn (and his general Survivor-enthusiast nature), or the editors determined his questions to be more useful in showing how TC played out.

Either way, I found it annoying.