S03.E03: Chapter Nineteen - The Convert

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

On Coruscant, former Imperials find amnesty in the New Republic.

Dropping Wednesday, March 15, 2023.

[magdalene]

First time ever I was bored for most of a Mando episode.  I just don't care to spend that much time on Pershing and Moff Gideon's hench-person.

The beginning was exciting and the ending made me perk up, but the middle section, meh.

If I don't get Din and Grogu give me someone interesting like Cobb Vanth or Bill Burr's character.  I wouldn't mind spending most of an episode with them.

I felt this killed the momentum we had built up from the first two episodes.

Sad that Bo's fortress of mopitude was destroyed.

 

[absnow54]

Bo Katan is like the popular quarterback who has to audition for the school musical to pass English class, and ends up getting the lead, and now has to hang out with all the weird theater kids. 

I didn't really care for the Pershing story either, but it's always fun to explore Coruscant, and get glimmers of the failed New Republic. These Star Wars TV shows have captured the creepy 70's sci-fi horror genre very well.

[minamurray78]

It never occurred to me they would go and consider Bo Katan redeemed as well. I wonder how long she will last. But I think she might warm up to the thing eventually. 

Oh yeah totally skipped the whole doctor part.

[Jediknight]

Operation Paperclip comes to Star Wars, and they're taking from Winter Soldier by having the Empire grow inside the New Republic.  Elia Kane set up Pershing because he was gonna share all his knowledge with the New Republic, and the remnants of the Empire to become the First Order can't have that.  Pershing legit wanted to help the New Republic, but he was played by Elia.

And that ain't no warlord who sent those Ties, I'd say it was more likely a Grand Admiral.

[Peace 47]

Is it too much to ask that the a show called The Mandalorian be about, you know, one or more Mandalorians?  I found everything about Dr. Pershing to be excruciating past the first 60 seconds of it.

I do think Bo’s flirtation with faith is interesting, but as I’m still one who wishes that Din would have an epiphany about the ways of his cult and establish a new way to be Mandalorian that doesn’t involve such coldness and rigidity, I’m a little nervous about where this goes.  But maybe he and Bo can still set out the happy medium between faithfulness and faithlessness before it’s all over.

The one highlight for me was Din and Bo saying “This is the Way” to each other and Grogu then chiming in with some baby talk that was clearly his attempt to say it, too.  The way Din looked back and stared was very cute.

I thought that the technician creature starting the mind flare with Pershing towards the end sounded remarkably like Jim Gaffigan, but I didn’t see him credited.

[absnow54]

Just now, Peace 47 said:

Is it too much to ask that the a show called The Mandalorian be about, you know, one or more Mandalorians?  I found everything about Dr. Pershing to be excruciating past the first 60 seconds of it.

It was probably to make up for the fact that The Mandalorian took up two full episodes of the Boba Fett series last year.[/sarcasm]

[magdalene]

If they had switched back and forth between the Pershing stuff and the Mandalorian story more frequently I may have found this more palatable. As it was my eyes glazed over during the main section.

[Capricasix]

The dogfight at the beginning was exciting - I particularly enjoyed R5 succumbing to gravity 😄 And Grogu standing beside Mando’s head as he regained consciousness 🥲❤️

As far as the Dr Pershing story, meh. I enjoyed the worldbuilding (while hoping to see Carson Teva 😄), and I’m hoping that the story will have greater ramifications overall. I found it interesting that some aspects of the New Republic bear uncomfortable similarities to the Empire, but perhaps this is an established fact of which I’m unaware! 😄

[MissLucas]

I found the beginning engaging enough to give them some leeway when they were pulling a Boba Fett. Loved the dogfight at the beginning and although I never liked the character much I took it as a nice shout-out to Starbuck. The turn of the Gauntlet by dropping one wing, wow! Those gravity drops (or however you call that maneuvers) were a thing of beauty. And the N1 is a nifty ship in dogfights even if it sucks as living quarters. 

As I expected Din did not see the Mythosaur and Bo is keeping that to herself - for the moment. When she did not remove her helmet after Mandalore I knew where this was going. The Children hold to their dogma no matter what - she was redeemed whether she wanted it or not. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I still can't see her sticking to the old ways but it's a great character conflict they set up here. I'm also not too sure how happy Paz Vizsla is with her arrival. Even if she keeps her head down and her helmet on this could get messy fast.

Coruscant looked terrific - that Disney money showed. Was Doctor Pershing sent to the same working station as Syril Karn in Andor? If so good for them to recycle sets. Speaking of recycling - now we know how the fall of the New Republic started: failure to recycle! Also: your psych evaluation droids suck!

As for Doctor Pershing and his research. Sorry dude, but you got played from the get go. Gotta hand it to Elia Kane, never seen such a villainous use of biscuits. My guess is that she's tied to whoever sent those Interceptors (?)- and they were not after Din or Bo but Grogu. Because that's the link to Pershing. And if @Jediknight is right about a Grand Admiral sending them this might be the point where Ahsoka's show bleeds into the season.

I also appreciate the ambiguous episode title: Convert could apply to Bo, Pershing or Elia Kane.

Edited March 15, 2023 by MissLucas

[Athena]

This episode was a let down after the last one. The Dr Pershing story was way too long. The world building was okay but the whole thing reminds you that the SW universe isn't even that great with the New Republic. Rich people don't care who is in charge and there are dirty politics everywhere.

It's not going to be One Big Happy Cult Covert. Paz Vizsla did not seem keen to welcome Bo or Din back into the fold. I think the Armourer is cool in some ways but the dogmatic nature of this group should be interesting for both Mandalorians. I am glad that Bo is a regular now because her history and characterization adds something to this show. In a couple of eps, we've seen her own faith and world view be shaken especially after the Empire destroyed another one of her homes. She's been alone for awhile and to be welcomed back in by her own people probably did feel a little good. I really do hope the show challenges Din more about his own faith. I don't need him to take the helmet off all the time (which gives this show and Pascal lots of flexibility), but there is a creepiness to the group.

Din will have to to ease up on his own faith otherwise Grogu is going to have to take the oath and we don't want a regular helmet on him.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, while I get what they were going for by setting up the likely new main antagonists and showing how the First Order comes to be thanks to the New Republic not exactly being on the up and up after the Rebel Alliance is officially disbanded (realistically, that was always probably going to happen), I definitely felt myself getting bored at times and wanting to get back to Din, Grogu, and Bo-Katan.  Dr. Pershing isn't exactly a bad character and I feel like there was some potential, but I just never really cared enough to be invested by this episode.  And while I generally enjoy Omid Abtahi and Katy O'Brian (she just had a significant role in Ant-Man 3, so she's certainly in Disney's favor now!), I'm not sure if either one his quite on the level to carry this episode.  This might have been a hard sell no matter what, but I imagine I would have enjoyed this more if, say, I was following Moff and him being a prisoner in the New Republic because Giancarlo Esposito has that presence about him to carry one.  Eh, nice try.

I knew Elia was going to betray Pershing from the get-go, but I didn't predict the way she would do it, so that was interesting.  And then seeing her actually kind of enjoy hurting him at the end.  Yeah, she's pretty good at the whole "pretending to be human" kind of thing, heh.

The opening space dogfight was pretty sweet.  Too bad about Bo's temple/home though.

So, thanks to that dip in the pool, not only has Din been cleansed but Bo as well in The Armorer's eyes.  Which means both now are good to join that creepy "Helmets on!" faction!  Yeah, I don't see them lasting too long here: especially Bo.  Plus, it still looks like the bigger Mandalorian isn't a fan of either of them.

Cool that this was directed by Lee Issac Chung, who just got an Oscar nomination for directing Minari two years ago.

Can't win them all, I guess.  Hopefully the next episode will be better.

[ProudMary]

Top Gun: Mandalorian.

I thought the entire episode was good, including the Dr. Pershing segment. The implications of his public address were informative about Palpatine's return down the road. Some of this ties in well with events playing out in episodes of The Bad Batch this season, even though the time frames are years apart.

Edited March 16, 2023 by ProudMary

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, Jediknight said:

And that ain't no warlord who sent those Ties, I'd say it was more likely a Grand Admiral.

Would that be the same Grand Admiral who was mentioned in last seasons Ahsoka episode?

[Sakura12]

A Visla would not be happy to have Bo-Katan in the fold. Their families have a history. Although it looks like seeing the mythasaur might have brought back her faith. I don't how long she'll want to go without removing her helmet though.

The beginning and the ending were good, the middle not so much. I get its setting up something, it's just not what I signed up for. I'm also guessing it Thrawn in control.  

[wanderingstar]

Dr. Pershing is a character that always intrigued me, so I loved this episode. I had a feeling Elia was setting him up, but I still felt bad when he was arrested. Ditto when he was being "soothed" by the Mind Flayer, especially with the way that one doctor(?) was talking about it like it was no big deal :::shudder:::

It was also cool hearing about the transition from Empire to New Republic. The Amnesty Program seems like a good idea. Not too sure about the execution of it, though

"Empire, Rebels, New Republic...I can't keep track." Must be nice to be so privileged you don't care who's at the helm.

So, Bo Katan is now part of the covert. I don't see that lasting very long. I'm waiting for Din to start questioning The Way, even as I understand why he clings to it so much.

[LJones41]

Quote

First time ever I was bored for most of a Mando episode.  I just don't care to spend that much time on Pershing and Moff Gideon's hench-person.

 

I agree.  This was bringing back bad memories of "The Book of Boba Fett" and "Andor".

[Captain Carrot]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

So, Bo Katan is now part of the covert. I don't see that lasting very long. I'm waiting for Din to start questioning The Way, even as I understand why he clings to it so much.

My guess is that Bo Katan will end up somewhere between her earlier beliefs and the beliefs of the covert. Sort of how most religions have all kinds of degrees between ultra-conservative and completely secular. Din will probably end up in the same place as her.

 

I have to wonder about Elia Kane's motivations. (Especially with that rumor from earlier in the show about Gideon being flayed). Is that rumor false and she's working for him, is she working for someone else, or is this revenge against people she dislikes from her time in the Empire? (Her comment about never getting a chance to think about what she wanted to be when she grew up makes me wonder how she ended up in the Empire and how she feels about people that chose to join getting amnesty). Also just looked up the actor that plays her and apparently she's a martial artist. So, she might be involved in some action scenes later on.

[RedBaron]

I don't understand why Elia was given so much trust by the New Republic.  She was very recently one of Moff Gideon's top henchmen. Why would they take her word over Pershing's?  His story of her setting him up made just as much sense as hers -- maybe more sense.  And why would they leave her completely alone in the room with the controls.  It just seems ridiculous and implausible that they have full faith and confidence in her suddenly.  The way the doctor was fawning over her before he left her alone seemed off.  Even if she went to them beforehand to say Pershing was planning something, it seems they would at least listen to what he had to say and consider Elia's conduct and past before just  immediately frying his brain.

[tljgator]

Was anybody else amused by Dr. Pershing telling the doctor running the mind flayer who reminded me of Admiral Ackbar (since he looked to be Mon Calamari...yes, I had to look that up, lol) that "It was a TRAP!" Just me?

[merylinkid]

15 minutes ago, tljgator said:

Was anybody else amused by Dr. Pershing telling the doctor running the mind flayer who reminded me of Admiral Ackbar (since he looked to be Mon Calamari...yes, I had to look that up, lol) that "It was a TRAP!" Just me?

Oh no I sniggered.   The only part of that whole boring middle sequence I enjoyed.   We are supposed to care about this character we only saw fleetingly before?    Then the undercover agent who befriends those in the program who she then convinces to break the law (let me see what DOES that remember me of?), who is she and why do we care?

[MsNewsradio]

47 minutes ago, RedBaron said:

I don't understand why Elia was given so much trust by the New Republic.  She was very recently one of Moff Gideon's top henchmen. Why would they take her word over Pershing's?  His story of her setting him up made just as much sense as hers -- maybe more sense.  And why would they leave her completely alone in the room with the controls.  It just seems ridiculous and implausible that they have full faith and confidence in her suddenly.  The way the doctor was fawning over her before he left her alone seemed off.  Even if she went to them beforehand to say Pershing was planning something, it seems they would at least listen to what he had to say and consider Elia's conduct and past before just  immediately frying his brain.

Every single part of this. It made no sense to me and was just plot contrivance after plot contrivance. 

[dwmarch]

(Spoiler coded sections are minor spoilers for other Star Wars movies and shows, can never be too careful on who has seen what and I'd really hate to ruin that second surprise)

So I guess the New Republic has no laws around entrapment? Pershing wouldn't have gone off to do anything on his own, Elia set him up the whole way. Sure, the Empire could throw you in jail for literally no reason

Spoiler

as we saw in Andor

but you would think the New Republic would see this kind of sting as something the ISB would do. Then again, Elia was a great social engineer so it's possible she somehow talked the authorities into thinking it was their idea.

I assume she's still on team Empire though? What reward does she get out of turning Pershing's mind into soup? I thought he was destined to be part of the whole

Spoiler

"somehow, Palpatine returned"

business. Well, maybe this is intended to crush the do-gooder out of him. Which the cubicle job seemed to be doing just fine at, albeit slowly.

I like the parallels here between the mistakes we saw the Empire make in Andor with similar mistakes the New Republic is making.

Did they say Coruscant has one trillion people on it? As in one thousand billion? Even if the whole surface is covered in skyscrapers, that seems a little high.

The Mandalorians have a special living waters detector to make sure exiled Mandos can come back even though the planet was supposed to be dead and gone. That's... convenient.

I'm surprised how expressive some of them can be even with their helmets on. For example, it was easy to tell that Paz Vizsla's armor was pinching his nuts.

[paigow]

23 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Did they say Coruscant has one trillion people on it? As in one thousand billion? Even if the whole surface is covered in skyscrapers, that seems a little high.

Several million live underground in those mineshafts that are hives of scum and villainy...

 

Bo is the new Bachelorette ... This covert is mostly dudes...

[lucindabelle]

Wait so in the future there are… cubicles???

is it me or is the New Republic breathtakingly stupid??

having a droid ask such leading questions is the equivalent of the old “did anybody help you pack” questions at the airport. Like it’s obvious what they want to hear…

elia couldn’t look more like a Nazi if she tried. So no suspense at all. 
 

how did Pershing ever get through medical school being that stupid?

in a hospital TODAY they’d never leave a non-doctor alone in a room with Co trips that could maim or kill a person. You e got to be kidding me. 
 

[WritinMan]

Best episode of the season so far for me.

11 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

is it me or is the New Republic breathtakingly stupid??
 

Well, they let the First Order become a thing so they could build Death Star III, so....yeah.

Did Grogu join in with a "This is the way" at one point? That's kind of cute.

Edited March 16, 2023 by WritinMan

[Athena5217]

It drives me nuts that Dr. Pershing has glasses. They have lasers, but no LASIK to fix his eyes?

I caught a definite vibe between Mando and Bo after the dogfight.

Grogu is so smart putting up his pram shield during the fight. What a good boy! In contrast, the R5 droid was pretty sad laying on the floor because it didn’t secure itself. I think it needs to start serving drinks because it doesn’t seem up for much else.

[Guest]

I think I would have enjoyed the parts with Pershing just fine if the tone didn’t feel like a completely different show or if it felt less predictable. It got better in the end when it didn’t go exactly how I expected but it felt like a slog getting there. It felt too much like a backdoor pilot. I do think it will work better on rewatch.

Once we were back with Din and Bo-Katan the boredom was completely forgotten. Plus just watching Bo’s gauntlet in action makes this episode a win for me. 

I really love how well crafted the show has been throughout around Din’s journey. It really feels like they know exactly where they are bringing him and are introducing other Mandalorians with a purpose in mind. 

Last week we had Din on his back foot while on Mandalore while Bo-Katan was on familiar ground and now their positions have been reversed. 

17 hours ago, tljgator said:

Was anybody else amused by Dr. Pershing telling the doctor running the mind flayer who reminded me of Admiral Ackbar (since he looked to be Mon Calamari...yes, I had to look that up, lol) that "It was a TRAP!" Just me?

I was. It also made me wonder if we had gotten the “bad feeling” let yet at this show. I thinking not. 

17 hours ago, RedBaron said:

Why would they take her word over Pershing's?  His story of her setting him up made just as much sense as hers -- maybe more sense.

I guessing because she had sold him out long before they got caught. His answers to the droid and conversations with his boss would really work against him. He raised plenty of red flags so her version would have been more believable. 

On 3/15/2023 at 10:29 AM, MissLucas said:

The turn of the Gauntlet by dropping one wing, wow!

I need a gif of that. 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:50 AM, absnow54 said:

I didn't really care for the Pershing story either, but it's always fun to explore Coruscant, and get glimmers of the failed New Republic. These Star Wars TV shows have captured the creepy 70's sci-fi horror genre very well.

I felt like they wanted to capture some of the worldbuilding, intrigue, and (as you note) 70s sci-fi feel of Andor but they couldn't quite pull it off. It seemed somewhat hollow and superficial to me, especially the dialogue and acting by the Nobles after Pershing's speech. 

Points for trying, but it came up short for me.

Two sidenotes:

1) Does anyone know if any of those nobles also appeared on Coruscant in Andor? One or two looked familiar, but I haven't looked to see.

2) I think you can make a drinking game of "every time someone flies over water, they will drag one wing through it for no good reason". It seems to be a trope in just about every tv show or movie I've seen come out of Marvel recently.

22 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

It drives me nuts that Dr. Pershing has glasses. They have lasers, but no LASIK to fix his eyes?

"Unless I can have freshly cloned replacement eyes, I shall keep these antiquated eyepieces." - attributed to Dr. Pershing (though he doesn't remember saying it.)

Edited March 16, 2023 by Cthulhudrew

[revbfc]

As a a fan of the old Dark Horse comics, I loved seeing the peak of Mount Umate.  Come to think of it, I loved the entirety of the Coruscant portion because it reminded me of Andor.

[AnimeMania]

Not a fan of the episode so I will rewrite it, leaving  out the Coruscant part. The Mythosaur comes partially out of the water and Grogu does his Jedi mind tricks to kind of tame it, like in the legend. Mando and Bo grab a number of Buskar Armor Suits littering Mandalore and throw them in the back of her spaceship. They end up at the Armorer's place and the Armorer forges new armor for everybody, including Grogu. Everybody is in loves with them.

[Captain Carrot]

I have the feeling that the problem with the New Republic is that too many people thought Palpatine was an aberration and they could simply reinstate the same government as the Old Republic. (Despite the prequels and The Clone Wars showing that there were significant issues with the Old Republic. It probably would have fallen apart sooner or later even if Palpatine never showed up). They should have taken the opportunity to truly create something new.

It would also be interesting if we find out that part of the issue is that competent bureaucrats were either purged by the Empire or 'Sith-ized' by the Empire and purged by the New Republic. That would leave the New Republic with the dregs.

[bethy]

9 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Did Grogu join in with a "This is the way" at one point? That's kind of cute.

Initially, I thought he was warning them about the incoming fighters since they appeared so soon after Grogu's babbling, but I saw a clip of that scene, and it definitely sounds like he's trying to say, "This is the way." Aw!

[MissLucas]

12 hours ago, dwmarch said:

The Mandalorians have a special living waters detector to make sure exiled Mandos can come back even though the planet was supposed to be dead and gone. That's... convenient.

Well for once not a lot of hand-waving required here. The living waters flooded the mines of Mandalore so there might be traces of beskar in the water. Since the Armaror still works with beskar I guess she has some sort of beskar litmus test in her kit.

[callmebetty]

Grogu was definitely trying to participate in the This is the Way cheer. Din looks at him and then Bo.

He's such a good kid.

As for Andor Pershing.  That could have been condensed to 15 minutes. I didn't trust Elia at all. I assume that Pershing now has a mush brain.

In the words of Ian Malcolm.  "Now you eventually plan on having Mandalorians on your, on your Mandalorian show, right? Hello? "

[Jediknight]

12 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I assume she's still on team Empire though? What reward does she get out of turning Pershing's mind into soup? I thought he was destined to be part of the whole

  Reveal spoiler

"somehow, Palpatine returned"

business. Well, maybe this is intended to crush the do-gooder out of him. Which the cubicle job seemed to be doing just fine at, albeit slowly.

Because Pershing legit wanted to help the New Republic and was gonna share everything with them.  She sets up Pershing and fries his mind, and he can't give the New Republic anything.  Now the only ones with Pershing's info are ones loyal to the Empire, and they also have a whole junkyard of perfectly good fighters and destroyers to raid.  That's my guess, they've been building the First Order in the background since the beginning of the show, and for the First Order to succeed they've gotta weed out anybody who isn't loyal to the Empire.

[blackwing]

I literally fell asleep during this episode.  Didn't care about the doctor and the woman at all.  Ella seemed sketchy as soon as she appeared onscreen.

I get that they are building the legend and lore of the Star Wars world, but Pershing and Ella were a complete waste of time.

More Mandalorian, more Grogu, less other stuff.

[Chyromaniac]

I thought this was great.  Yes, the show is “The Mandalorian.”  And we got good moments with Din, Bo and Grogu.  But a big part of the story of this show has been the Imperial Remnant and their interest in Grogu.  I think this episode does a great job of bringing that element back into the game.  And, it does a fantastic job of setting up Kane as a villain.  Katy O’Brian is really good in this- it’s clear that Kane is tempting Pershing, but she does such a great job of bringing him into her confidence.  And, it was interesting to watch her work, believing that she was just an imperial who slipped through the cracks- the fact that she’s actually a spy inside the rehab program makes it even better.

Otherwise, yeah- the new republic is making huge mistakes, and ignoring obvious flaws.  But, we kind of knew that was the case- see episode 7.  It’s fascinating to see some of those problems play out on a personal level with Pershing and Kane.

Oh and, they need to have those cookies right now at Galaxy’s Edge- I bet they’d sell great at the blue milk stand.

[bobby2018]

Thank you every poster to give me the chance to avoid unhappiness.

 I watched the first 4 minutes then FF 40 minutes. Finished the last 4 minutes. This is the way. 

[callmebetty]

51 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

Oh and, they need to have those cookies right now at Galaxy’s Edge- I bet they’d sell great at the blue milk stand.

Oh and the light up Popsicles they were eating. I thought of Galaxy's Edge right away.

[Capricasix]

The Star Wars Instagram account actually posted a recipe for pog soup, and dare I say it looks really tasty! Roasted peppers, onions and garlic, spices, coconut milk. I might try making it 👍🏼

[paigow]

Does Costco sell Pog meat?

Grogu:  The Way This Is

[Guest]

For me the biggest indicator of how the New Republic is doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past if how the people in the amnesty program were given numbers and forever labeled as former imperials.

The exact same type of dehumanization of the Clones that led to the Republic’s downfall. 

[tennisgurl]

This episode was a lot slower than the last few and I missed Din and company, but I did think that this was an interesting episode. I thought that Dr. Pershing was an interesting minor character when we met him so I am glad that they chose him to explore the New Republic. It was a bit on the dull side, especially when so much interesting stuff is happening with Din and Bo, but I know that this will end up leading to important things later. 

Coruscant looks great, the last few urban based Star Wars shows have done a good job at making these cities look alternately pretty and overly saturated, the brightness mixed with the darkness with a shiny sci-fi look. The New Republic is already making a lot of the same mistakes that we saw the Empire make in Andor and even the mistakes the Old Republic made previously, with its massive bloated bureaucracy, overconfidence, a wealthy populace who doesn't care about the problems the rest of the galaxy is having, unethical science programs (clone soldiers, brainwashing) and being unsure of their direction now that the Empire is gone. We have the same stupid rich people who don't care about who's in charge or what's happening to other people that Mon had to deal with in the Empire, the same creepy numbering system for the former imperials that they used on the clone troopers, the more things change, the more things stay the same. 

The program that allows former imperials to reintegrate into the New Republic is a good idea, but the brainwashing and numbering are much less so. What a mess, you can already see how the First Order is going to rise up, which is where I am guessing this plot with Moff's former lackey is going. Dr. Pershing might be a brilliant scientist and his intentions really were good, but man was he oblivious to this obvious trap. Admiral Aackbar, your needed!

Not much of Din, Bo, and Grogu, but I really liked what we did get. Bo was clearly really struck by what happened on Mandalore and what she saw, this is going to be really interesting going forward. In the last episode Bo was in her element on Mandalore while now with Din's faction he is back in his element while she clearly feels weird there. Now Din is finally cleansed and is allowed back into the cave club, but surprisingly so is Bo! I cant imagine that she will become a real convert to their extreme faction, but being around them will probably be interesting. I wonder if we will get to the point where Bo and Din can find a sort of middle Mandalore, especially now that the know the planet is habitable again. respecting the old ways but getting out a bit more. 

Din and Bo exchanging a "This is the Way" while Grogu tried to join in with baby babbles was so cute. The dog fight at the start was really awesome, we didn't get much of the Din/Grogu/Bo team but what we got was great.

[Orbert]

It still bugs me that Bo Katan kept saying that Mandalore was "cursed" or "poisoned" or whatever, and Paz Vizsla was saying the same thing, when all anyone had to do was just go there and check.  I was thinking that Mandalore was some far-off planet and getting there would be a pain, and probably dangerous to get to (due to... I don't know... something or someone they'd have to pass through on the way) but Bo was hanging out sulking on a moon actually orbiting Mandalore.  How hard would it have been to just head over there and see if it's actually cursed or poisoned, instead of sitting there whining that it's cursed or poisoned?

[paigow]

She only had a Butler droid... Not an Astromech or IG to run environmental tests

[Shanna Marie]

I'm sure, based on production schedules, that this couldn't have been inspired by Andor, but there had to have been some communication between production teams to keep the look of Coruscant consistent. The Amnesty Program housing was similar to Syril Karn's Momster's apartment, and his cube wasn't quite the cubical hell of the Empire, but had a similar enough vibe, and then the annoying rich people could easily have been guests at one of Mon Mothma's parties.

8 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

I have the feeling that the problem with the New Republic is that too many people thought Palpatine was an aberration and they could simply reinstate the same government as the Old Republic. (Despite the prequels and The Clone Wars showing that there were significant issues with the Old Republic. It probably would have fallen apart sooner or later even if Palpatine never showed up). They should have taken the opportunity to truly create something new.

I recently did a rewatch of all the live-action Star Wars stuff in chronological order, and before that had finished watching Clone Wars, and that universe strikes me as very dystopian, no matter which era. It's not just the Empire. During the Republic, there was slavery and there were crime houses. Coruscant looks like my idea of a nightmare. Having a mountain peak being the only part of the planet surface that's visible is some seriously dystopian stuff and doesn't seem like the sort of thing a healthy society would do. The New Republic doesn't seem to be all that much better, and they were seriously stupid to consider that just getting rid of the Emperor would fix everything. The thing about dictatorships is that no one can get in power and stay in power without a critical mass of people in critical positions supporting them, and even if the dictator is gone, those people are still going to be there. In a government that spanned a galaxy and required a massive military and bureaucracy to keep running, there would have been hundreds of aspiring Emperors more than willing to jump into the power gap and keep things going (like the way the First Order doesn't seem to have missed a beat after Snoke). The Emperor did have Force powers and Vader helping him, but if absolutely everyone else in the galaxy hated them, they probably could have been taken out. We're seeing in modern-era Star Wars that there were a lot of people in favor of the Empire.

That's something that bugs me about the insertion of the scene of people dancing in the streets in Coruscant at the end of the Special Edition version of Return of the Jedi. Of all places, that's the one where they're less likely to have been dancing in the streets. The people at the upper levels of Coruscant were probably the most devoted supporters of the Empire because they're the ones who benefited from it. The people on the lower levels might have been happy to see the Emperor fall, but the people up top would have had their own security people keeping the people below out, even if the official security forces folded, which I find unlikely. All those ISB agents and Stormtroopers probably didn't just go, "Oh well, never mind."

The way they're handling this amnesty program seems worse than if they'd just done a galaxy wide Nuremburg Trials thing and condemned them all. It's harsh enough to not really change hearts and minds, so they're just going to end up with enemies on the inside.

I did keep wondering when we were going back to the actual Mandalorian, but I was intrigued by this random episode of Andor popping up to bring up all the sticky questions about this society. There's some rot from within they need to deal with before they can move forward. Maybe a galaxy-spanning government isn't the best idea.

[magdalene]

21 hours ago, LJones41 said:

 

I agree.  This was bringing back bad memories of "The Book of Boba Fett" and "Andor".

Well, I did love 3 episodes of Boba Fett.  Grins.  And I came to very much like Andor. But these two characters haven't been around enough for me to form any kind of attachment to them plus the storyline was so predictable. I guessed right away she was setting him up.

[Orbert]

Yeah, Kane (or G68 or whatever) was acting pretty shady from the start, which was kinda dumb.  If they'd seemed more sincerely rehabilitated and not telegraphed the betrayal so obviously, it would've been more interesting.

[Ottis]

On 3/15/2023 at 5:01 AM, magdalene said:

First time ever I was bored for most of a Mando episode.  I just don't care to spend that much time on Pershing and Moff Gideon's hench-person.

I loved it. The absence of Grogu alone was worth it, but the depth that little side story provided to our understanding of what sorts of things were happening to people after the Empire lost was really interesting. I didn't care much that it was Gideon's henchperson, but I liked the city (finally, it's not a desert planet!), the amnesty program and the great shots of decommissioned Empire ships (though the show missed the chance for an awesome musical cue when the grounded star destroyers first appeared and it didn't play a few notes of the Imperial March). Also, the "it's a trap!" line when the scientist was on the table? Priceless.

For me, it really slowed down when we returned to the Mandalorian and his being redeemed.

On 3/15/2023 at 5:14 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

"Empire, Rebels, New Republic...I can't keep track." Must be nice to be so privileged you don't care who's at the helm.

I don't think privilege has much to do with it. I mean, maybe for that guy, but also, serfs who have no control or input into who is in charge also don't pay attention. For them, it doesn't matter - it always sucks.

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The program that allows former imperials to reintegrate into the New Republic is a good idea, but the brainwashing and numbering are much less so.

Also, the execution seems flawed. Having robots asking questions by route with no real observation of the human misses *a lot* of clues that we saw. I don't know who Dr. Pershing is or if he is important, but as I watched his sessions with the robot it made me wonder what the Allies would have missed out on if that was how they handled Werner Von Braun.

Overall, another good episode, helped in no small part because we actually got to see more of the universe and no Grogu, at least for a bit. Did they change showrunners or writers or something? Because this season is far better than the first two so far, IMO.

2 hours ago, Orbert said:

Yeah, Kane (or G68 or whatever) was acting pretty shady from the start, which was kinda dumb.  If they'd seemed more sincerely rehabilitated and not telegraphed the betrayal so obviously, it would've been more interesting.

Yes, but the question was, why was she shady? I was wondering where this was going. Was she shady for the Republic, or the Empire, or for her own reasons? Apparently it could be all three.