S04.E05: Chapter Five: The Nina Project

[paulvdb]

Quote

Owens takes El to Nevada, where she's forced to confront her past, while the Hawkins kids comb a crumbling house for clues. Vecna claims another victim.

[Spartan Girl]

El’s got her powers back (almost)! I hate that they shaved her head again though. And I really hate that she’s forced to work with Brenner again and call him “Papa.” Blech. Creep. He better be dead for real when the show is over.

Are they going to get Steve and Nancy back together? Don’t know how I feel about that. God knows they’re different people then they were back in season 2, but still…

The Nazi jocks need to just go away. That being said, the one’s murder was just gruesome. This season is not holding back.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[bettername2come]

Eleven waking up in a cell was so sad. I'm so mad at Dr. Owens. I still kind of trust him. but we'll see how long that lasts. Little Eleven looks so much more realistic this ep compared to the opening ep. I'm glad El hit Brenner, but seriously, she did more damage to Angela.

Yes, I paused the episode to try Agent Hero Guy's pen phone number. 

I'm glad Mike gave Suzie credit for saving the world last year. I was a little annoyed they didn't when he and Dustin were all "my girlfriend's better than your girlfriend" in the first ep. 

I loved Lucas declaring himself a Kate Bush fan since she saved Max's life.

So I guess Jason's not going to still think Eddie's a murderer anymore.

Oh my god, the next episode is playing!?! I thought it was just the first 5? Ah!

Edited May 28, 2022 by bettername2come

[overtherainbow]

Suspicions confirmed, I had a feeling from the trailer alone Dr Owens was working with Brenner. Ugh, not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, El needs to get her powers back. On the other, is being forced to relive her traumatic childhood as a lab rat with the creepy scientist who abused her really the way to do that?

[Blue Plastic]

Is Dr. Owens evil, too?  This is awful.

Even more awful is this cursed "Hopper in Russia" plot.  It's going on WAY too long and is way too brutal to be entertaining or satisfying in any way.  I mean, I can take some violence in shows and movies, especially if the evildoers get their comeuppance and you don't have to see every moment of the violence.  This is just, like, violence for the sake of violence at this point.  Why didn't they just make all the episodes vlog style from Hopper's point of view?  My Day in the Gulag, What I Eat in a Day in the Gulag, etc.

[Harvey]

I love that Murray was actually great at Karate, that was really cool. But the scene where he was giving his intimidating speech to the russioa guy and Joyce was just laying there, watching them was so frustrating. She had the perfect opportunity to attack the enemy from behind and she didn't do it!

[SeanC]

Brenner makes his long-anticipated return, though I'm disappointed that my longstanding speculation that he'd be gruesomely maimed by the Demogorgon turns out not to have been true.

[Lady Calypso]

I really dislike Brenner being back, and manipulating El one more. I understand she needs her powers back to help. But is it worth the cost of her sanity from this dude? He is also just as sketchy and unwilling to tell her anything useful for his own selfish gains. I don't think Owens is evil (I do believe he cares for El), but he definitely picked the wrong side with Brenner and chose not to fill her in. I wish El hit Brenner harder.

We haven't gotten the whole backstory for that opening scene, which means there's still a chance she's not the one who brutally murdered those other victims and employees. Maybe she brought the monster who did that?

 So, Will/Mike have a nice little heart to heart, but it definitely seems like Will's secret is his sexuality. 

So, are Nancy/Steve getting back together after Nancy/Jonathan break up? I wish they didn't. Not only because I think Steve and Nancy have too much of a rough history to give it another goaround, but I fear that once they do get back together, Steve's fate may be sealed. 

I was just screaming at Joyce and Murray fighting Yuri the whole time. What did they expect to happen when fighting him in a small plane? 

Well, the jocks finally catch up to Eddie, but I'm gonna just hope Chrissy's boyfriend realizes that Eddie didn't do this with his friend's brutal death. We don't really have the time to waste on these two fighting for another episode.

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really dislike Brenner being back, and manipulating El one more. I understand she needs her powers back to help. But is it worth the cost of her sanity from this dude?

I honestly thought he was killed in a prior season....

[peridot]

It's interesting they added to the backstory of Hopper.  I knew his daughter died of cancer, but the whole Agent Orange thing is new.  I wasn't aware of the side effects of that stuff.  They just keep adding to the tragedy of Hopper.

The Joyce and Murray scenes felt like slapstick to me.  I wanted to fast forward through their scenes.

I wasn't expecting that from Dr. Owens, that was a huge breach of trust.  He even buttered her up beforehand, saying that all the doctors believed in her.  They were sure as hell quick to detain and drug her.  I hope Hopper or Eleven takes all of them down.

Dustin really let Eddie down.  Did he just magically forget that the guy was depending on them for help?

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, Redrum said:

I honestly thought he was killed in a prior season....

Me, too. I thought Bremmer was dead.

[backhometome]

The Wheelers still remain the worst parents. A series of murders are happening in town and still let their kids run around doing god knows what/where. 

[Harvey]

2 hours ago, backhometome said:

The Wheelers still remain the worst parents. A series of murders are happening in town and still let their kids run around doing god knows what/where. 

Isn't Nancy 17? It would be weird to give her a curfew, she is almost an adult. And Mike is in California, away from the danger.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Harvey

[silverstream]

18 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, the jocks finally catch up to Eddie, but I'm gonna just hope Chrissy's boyfriend realizes that Eddie didn't do this with his friend's brutal death. We don't really have the time to waste on these two fighting for another episode.

While I'm also not a fan of this storyline, I think chances are greater that he'll just ramp it up to "they're using actual magic to murder"

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Isn't Nancy 17? It would be weird to give her a curfew, she is almost an adult. And Mike is in California, away from the danger.

Re: Nancy - under normal circumstances I'd agree, but not when two of her agemates (now three) have been brutally murdered, one of them having been a friend/close colleague of Nancy's at the school paper. Especially at a time where nobody had cellphones to check in or call for help if something happened.

[DearEvette]

I dunno I wasn't feeling this episode.  Overall I just felt impatient wanting stuff to just happen.

The California Crew plot was interesting though.  Mike, Argyle and Will finding the phone number and deciding to to road trip to Suzie was good.

The Hawkins stuff was also interesting.  I still hate the vigilante jocks who at this point just don't read as realistic.  The relentlessness of them pursuing Eddie is just over the top at this point. But our intrepid crew doing their thing in the spooky house was fun.

I am a little annoyed that Mike won't call them to let them know that Owens has El or that they don't call Mike to let him know that the upside down is happening again.  You'd think Nancy would call her brother to give him a heads up or that they'd wonder if maybe possibly El got her powers back and could help.

As for El, yeah I was 100% not feeling her stuff.  It feels almost like a mirror of what Hopper is going through, except not as cold.

While I generally enjoyed Joyce and Maury them going into full fight mode complete with firing a gun, on a plane while it is flight was a bit much.  And of course they'll both survive a friggin' plane crash without much of a scratch I am sure.

So yeah, I totally found my attention drifting a lot during this one.

[mledawn]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:13 PM, peridot said:

The Joyce and Murray scenes felt like slapstick to me.  I wanted to fast forward through their scenes.

Yeah, they seemed out of place - a sharp contrast to what was happening back in America

[Racj82]

I'm kind of getting tired of Dustin being a smartass to Steve. He can answer or address Steve without being a dick. 

[thuganomics85]

Looks like the monster already brushed off his loss and has claimed another victim already.  Sucks that the jock got brutally offed like that, but hopefully it will at least lead to Jason pulling his head out of his ass and realizing that Eddie wasn't the one that killed Chrissy.  Unless he actually does think Eddie has magical powers...

Had a feeling Dr. Bremmer was going to make his return with the whole "Eleven gets her powers back" storyline.  Pretty low for Owens to lie like he did, but I still get the sense that he does care about her (being the one to question Bremmer and try and stop him from taking it too far), so I guess it was a case of him feeling like Bremmer was a "necessary evil" to help El.  But I have to imagine this betrayal of trust will be addressed at some point.

Definitely feels like they're rekindling the flames of Steve/Nancy, which I'm not sure how I feel about that at the moment.

Certainly seems like they are dropping any pretense now and are going to finally reveal that Will is gay (and maybe has a crush on Mike?)

Hopper's stuff in Russia is still kind of boring.  Although, I guess him possibly having to fight that monster will come into play but if I were to make a guess, I'm thinking his Russian buddy will sacrifice himself as some form of redemption and Hopper will make it out okay.

Murray's got some fighting skills after-all!  Fighting that almost sixteen year-old worked!  Too bad neither he or Joyce know how to fly a plane though.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

The Russia stuff is taking too long. I like the character beats we are getting with Hopper and I like Enzo but this whole plot just feels like they are dragging out to have a big reunion in the final two episodes. 

I am disappointed in Owens but I also think he's backed into a corner. The rest of the government isn't being helpful and Brenner is the only one who really understand what El is.

[Sarah 103]

On 5/28/2022 at 4:40 PM, Harvey said:

I love that Murray was actually great at Karate, that was really cool. But the scene where he was giving his intimidating speech to the russioa guy and Joyce was just laying there, watching them was so frustrating. She had the perfect opportunity to attack the enemy from behind and she didn't do it!

I was thinking the exact same thing. I was so sure that's what was going to happen. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Me three. I liked that eventually she tried to reach for the gun, but Joyce's passivity in that scene was painful.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Me three. I liked that eventually she tried to reach for the gun, but Joyce's passivity in that scene was painful.

I feel like people aren't taking into account that they were on a rickety old plane with narrow space and they were actively not trying to kill the pilot. It wasn't as easy as grab the gun or grab the gun and kill him or knock him out. 

I will cut Joyce a bunch of slack. There was a lot going on.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Racj82

[Redrum]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:52 PM, LittleIggy said:

Me, too. I thought Bremmer was dead.

Just for the record, I am rewatching season one and Bremmer gets taken down by the demigorgan in the eighth episode "The Upside Down".

[festivus]

I'm heartily sick of the jocks. It's worse than Russia. I feel like we've left cool Stephen King horror for lame 80s teen horror. Eddie is still awesome though. Don't die Eddie!

Why was Papa enticing those kids with a piece of shitty taffy? At least give them a whole ass candy bar. Damn. 

[Aryanna]

It feels like they're padding out these storylines. All the obstacles in the Russia plot seemed to be there just to make it longer and give the adults something to do. And now Mike and them are taking a detour to Suzie. I just get the feeling some of these plots have unneeded fluff.

[tennisgurl]

I really thought that Bremmer's horrible self was already dead, so imagine my annoyance when he showed up. I'm disappointed in Dr. Owens, although I am sure that he thinks of Bremmer as a necessary evil to work with for the greater good and I do think he cares about El, but letting her be drugged and dumped in that sensory deprivation is not cool. I know that El needs her powers, but I wish they didn't have to dredge up her awful childhood memories, plus shave her hair. Was that really necessary? 

Argyle's comments about the existential themes of The NeverEnding Story were surprisingly profound, I am glad that the California story is picking up. I also thought that even the Russia story was a bit better this week, even if this plot makes the story stop dead in its tracks every time we cut back to it. Murray breaking out some karate was pretty great, Enzo is a pretty good scene partner for Hopper, and Hopper talking about how he wonders if he gave his daughter cancer was a really good showcase for David Harbour. I wish that we could have just had it confirmed that Hop was alive at the start of the season, then have him offscreen for awhile then dedicate an episode to his experiences with him (hopefully) escaping or being rescued at the end of his episode, giving him this plot totally separate from the rest of the story feels like one of those subplots you give a character because you want to give the actor something to do even after their character cant be involved in the current main plot for some reason.  

I thought that the fans speculating about Will being gay and into Mike were just seeing what they wanted to see in previous seasons but this season? I could totally see Will being gay and secretly in love with Mike and being unsure of how to handle it.

Hopefully this at least leads Jason to realize that Eddie isn't the killer, although he might just start thinking that Eddie has magical powers. 

The gang in Hawkins exploring the haunted house was the highlight of the episode, great mix of spookiness, sweet character moments, and snark. Although I am really not sure how I feel about the prospect of Steve and Nancy getting back together, I feel like that ship has sailed. 

[Blue Plastic]

57 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I thought that the fans speculating about Will being gay and into Mike were just seeing what they wanted to see in previous seasons but this season? I could totally see Will being gay and secretly in love with Mike and being unsure of how to handle it

I have been going back through season 1 and have gotten through episode 4, and in just that short time it’s amazing how many times Will being gay has been mentioned. That all flew over my head when I originally watched it. Maybe because you don’t see very much of him because he’s missing, just a couple of pictures and some brief flashbacks, so those hints didn’t really land with me.

Until now, I just assumed Will was a slow bloomer who just didn’t have any particular romantic interest (in anyone) yet.  Not that I thought he couldn’t be gay, mainly just because I didn’t absorb those earlier hints. Plus, whenever a bully character says, “Ha, ha, Will’s gay,” I just took that as a standard insult that was used a lot in movies and TV of that time period.  I didn’t think oh yeah, that bully for sure knows something about Will that his close friends and family don’t.

[CarpeFelis]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:38 PM, Spartan Girl said:

El’s got her powers back (almost)! I hate that they shaved her head again though.

I kept expecting her to yell at Brenner “what the hell did you do to my hair?!”

Brenner (why is everyone calling him Bremmer?) weirds me out in general, partly because I remember what Matthew Modine actually looked like during that time period.

I was annoyed at the scenes in the house because they were so dark I could hardly see what was going on.

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Until now, I just assumed Will was a slow bloomer who just didn’t have any particular romantic interest (in anyone) yet.  Not that I thought he couldn’t be gay, mainly just because I didn’t absorb those earlier hints. Plus, whenever a bully character says, “Ha, ha, Will’s gay,” I just took that as a standard insult that was used a lot in movies and TV of that time period.  I didn’t think oh yeah, that bully for sure knows something about Will that his close friends and family don’t.

I totally agree with you. I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

[Dobian]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:47 PM, Blue Plastic said:

Even more awful is this cursed "Hopper in Russia" plot.

The frustrating part of this season is how everyone is split up all over the map.  You have half the gang still in Hawkins, the other half in LA, then roaming the southwest, Eleven in Nevada, Hopper/Joyce/Murray in Siberia and Alaska.  Hopper spending the season so far not interacting with Eleven or any of the other regulars in the cast, Jonathan moping about Nancy but who cares since they don't spend any screen time together.  It looks like some of them are about to meet Suzie for the first time, but that doesn't include Dustin.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Dobian

[Kel Varnsen]

I think the thing that annoys me about Hopper in a Russian prison is it reminds me too much of Black Widow. It's like they let David Harbour shoot all his stranger things scenes during his days off. I keep expecting Florence Pugh to show up and say something funny.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/27/2022 at 8:38 PM, Spartan Girl said:

El’s got her powers back (almost)! I hate that they shaved her head again though. And I really hate that she’s forced to work with Brenner again and call him “Papa.” Blech. Creep. He better be dead for real when the show is over.

The Nazi jocks need to just go away. That being said, the one’s murder was just gruesome. This season is not holding back.

That was horrible! It's bad enough she's in the damn gown again and drugged and forced to relive bad memories but they took away her hair as well!

And yes, go away Nazi jocks. When Jason was aggressively interrogating Erica last episode, I got really pissed off. His fucking air of entitlement...No one owes you anything, asshole.

On 5/27/2022 at 8:52 PM, bettername2come said:

I loved Lucas declaring himself a Kate Bush fan since she saved Max's life.

That was adorable. They're so sweet together.

[Ilovepie]

21 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

That was horrible! It's bad enough she's in the damn gown again and drugged and forced to relive bad memories but they took away her hair as well!

It was horrible! If she wasn't so beat down from being bullied, I wish a little of her personality she had developed in Hawkins with her friends had shown up. I would have loved for her to show a little teen attitude to Dr. Brenner like "Oh my God Dr. Brenner - I cannot believe you shaved my head again! Do you know how long it took me to grow that out?!? And you are NOT my papa - my papa's name is Jim Hopper - YOU are the monster!"

[CailynA]

I really wanted El to yell at Brenner (really why does everyone keep calling him Bremmer) anyway, when he kept calling her Eleven, I wanted her to yell "My name is Jane!"

I'm more into the CA stuff now than the Russia stuff. The teen drama stuff in the first two episodes didn't do it for me.

Does Mike even know where Suzie lives? Like specifically? or are they going to contact her via radio or call Dustin?

Yeah, I really think Jason is just going to believe Eddie really has cursed them and still blame him.

[KarenX]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:22 PM, DearEvette said:

I am a little annoyed that Mike won't call them to let them know that Owens has El or that they don't call Mike to let him know that the upside down is happening again.  You'd think Nancy would call her brother to give him a heads up or that they'd wonder if maybe possibly El got her powers back and could help.

I think Hawkins crew has been trying to call California crew but have been getting a “weird busy signal.”

I liked the junkyard scene but I am not sure how they really weren’t followed there.

[Taryn74]

46 minutes ago, KarenX said:

I liked the junkyard scene but I am not sure how they really weren’t followed there.

Yeah, they weren't even out of sight of the "men in black" car when they turned off the road. Sloppy.

[Anela]

The girl in season two, said that Eleven's "papa" was still alive, didn't she? The one who was number eight.

Lucas and Max are adorable. I don't want Steve and Nancy to get together again. 

[Mediocre Gatsby]

I hated every minute of this. 

[Hava]

This episode was such a letdown from the previous episode. The only storylines I am into at the moment are in Hawkins, especially with the addition of Eddie. I need more of him! 

Eleven has never been a favorite character of mine (blasphemy, I know!), so I don't really care about her storyline, and Russia is so out of place.

I was just singing the praises of this season before this episode, so I hope it gets back on track for the last two episodes. 

[Nashville]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:38 PM, Spartan Girl said:

El’s got her powers back (almost)! I hate that they shaved her head again though. And I really hate that she’s forced to work with Brenner again and call him “Papa.” Blech. Creep. He better be dead for real when the show is over.

It is a testament to Matthew Modine’s acting skills that I look forward with such anticipation to his character’s suitably bloody and arcane demise.  😈

On 5/28/2022 at 2:47 PM, Blue Plastic said:

Is Dr. Owens evil, too?  This is awful.

Owens is evil with a small “e”; the evil of mindless soulless bureaucracy, of cowardice for the sake of corporate convenience, of being willing to fight to the last drop of somebody else’s blood in service to his/their goals. Owens’s mouth moves and it makes all the right words, but in his heart he doesn’t truly regard El as an actual person; to him she’s a tool to be used - and expended, if necessary - in furtherance of the organizational goals.  Go back and take a look at Paul Reiser’s portrayal of Burke in Aliens; Burke and Owens are essentially the same character.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I don't agree with that, at least so far, when it comes to Owens. I think he is a guy who is keenly aware of the stakes - and he's caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to Eleven. 

He knows what she is capable of and how necessary she is to saving the world. And he knows that getting her powers back will require her reliving trauma. I think he was mostly honest in laying out the options for El, and that he genuinely wanted to give her the choice.

So I don't think of him as a hero but I don’t think he's evil, either. He's just pragmatic and trying to navigate a very difficult situation as best he can.

Now my view might change in the final two episodes. But as of right now, that's how I see it.

Edited June 17, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Cheezwiz]

I actually enjoyed this episode more than I expected. The plane situation was silly, but I thought the fight scene between Murray and Yuri (hey, they could be a vaudeville duo!) was well staged.

Eddie is definitely my new favourite - he needs to live to the end of the series! Why were the jocks all dressed like Mormon missionaries when they were hunting him down? Sadly, instead of Eddie being cleared of Chrissy's murder, top jock is now convinced he has demonic powers. Ugh.

Like everyone else, I'm bored with the Russia stuff, but David Harbour's monologue about his time in Vietnam and the fate of his little daughter was some Emmy moment stuff.

On 5/31/2022 at 3:20 PM, CarpeFelis said:

Brenner (why is everyone calling him Bremmer?) weirds me out in general, partly because I remember what Matthew Modine actually looked like during that time period.

Me too - it freaks me out, because I'm old enough to remember when Modine was playing characters in 80's teen/young person movies, and now he's a silver-haired older gent who looks like he should be on the cover of AARP magazine. I feel the same whenever I see Kyle MacLaughlan as well.

I like that they've incorporated a spooky old house into this season, because I'm all about haunted houses, but I must confess, I'm really kind of bored with all of the supernatural plot elements because they don't hang together for me. What is Vecna's origin story and how is he related to Hawkins and the upside down? Does he hang with demo-gorgons in his free time? or is he in a completely different environment?  I kind of don't care. I also kind of don't care that much about Eleven. I watch mainly for Steve interacting with the younger kids, 80's nostalgia, and occasional shots of spookiness.

[janie jones]

12 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Eddie is definitely my new favourite - he needs to live to the end of the series! Why were the jocks all dressed like Mormon missionaries when they were hunting him down?

I had the same question (I think I might have said Reservoir Dogs), but my husband pointed out they had just come from the funeral.

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Eddie is definitely my new favourite - he needs to live to the end of the series! Why were the jocks all dressed like Mormon missionaries when they were hunting him down?

I thought they came straight from the funeral, which explained why they were so dressed up. Eddie is a great character, but he does not have opening credits immunity. If he goes, I pretty sure his death will result in saving the other teens and somehow clearing his name. I'm not sure how, but I'm confident our heroes will not let him die a murderer. 

[Taryn74]

48 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Eddie is a great character, but he does not have opening credits immunity.

Eddie really grew on me. I hope he makes it.

[Snow Fairy]

But why go on this forced route with El? She decided to go with Owen, she knows things are serious. If they explaned her what she needs to do, I think she would do it. And maybe it would be faster

[janie jones]

Because it wouldn't be dastardly!

[Heathrowe]

On 6/3/2022 at 10:31 AM, KarenX said:

I think Hawkins crew has been trying to call California crew but have been getting a “weird busy signal.”

I liked the junkyard scene but I am not sure how they really weren’t followed there.

They kept showing the scene through one of the abandoned car windows and I thought that meant someone was watching them, but no one popped out so I guess not? I guess that was just camera work.

I did not like this episode at all. At all. I hate the Hopper Russia stuff. Murray and Joyce and Yuri are very frustrating. I hate all of the lab/Eleven stuff, though I understand it's important to the show. I still hate it. California desert - hate it. The farther they get from Hawkins the more disjointed everything feels. I suppose this is about the halfway point in the season, and so every plot point is out there and it will all come together in the end but right now, for me, it's just too much stuff taking me away from Hawkins and the heart of the show.

All of the horror - is very scary - but it also reminds me of old RL Stine books somehow? The clock, particularly. I'm sure that's a device that has been used over and over again by horror writers but does anyone remember a Goosebumps or Fear Street with a clock on the cover?

Edited June 22, 2022 by Heathrowe

[eleanorofaquitaine]

19 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

But why go on this forced route with El? She decided to go with Owen, she knows things are serious. If they explaned her what she needs to do, I think she would do it. And maybe it would be faster

I don't think that they did force her. I mean, it's not like Owens caused her to hit Angela with a roller skate. He didn’t engineer her going into juvenile detention, as far as I know. (Or if he did, it was to protect her from the other government types, who definitely weren't going to treat her kindly, based on their treatment of Owens' guy protecting her).

His biggest sin was withholding from her that she'd be working from Brenner, and that is no small thing. But he did give her a choice and she chose to try to get her powers back. And she chose that option again with Brenner, when she could have escaped. Like it or not, Eleven is choosing to take this path, even though she knows that Brenner is exploitive and manipulative.

[Snow Fairy]

But she wanted to go when she saw Brenner. And they did get on the forcing route then.

Twice actually

I also hate the Russia plot, it drags too long