S06.E16: Family Meeting

[hoosiergirl]

8 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm not following the thinking that Kate let Kevin take over and make the decision. I didn't see it that way at all.

Rebecca wanted to stay in Jack's dream house that Kevin built and wanted to be near family but not at the expense of her kids' lives.

They did look to Kate for her approval and she did give it as Rebecca’s “guardian”. Of course she was going to agree. But Rebecca really left them in an impossible spot with her “don’t make your lives smaller because of my disease” speech. She wanted Kevin to build her a beautiful house to live in, that’s halfway across the country from her 2/3 of her kids, and she has a degenerative disease. It’s like a rock and hard place situation for the kids. They want to honor her wishes but they don’t have a lot of good choices. I don’t fault Rebecca for not being able to foresee everything that would happen but the choices were all not great. Kate’s plan to move Rebecca back to California was fine. I don’t think she had another option, really, until Kevin suggested that he and Sophie would live in the house. 

[bonniejmac]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

 

Because she's their mother. They all went thru traumatic events, and Rebecca was there to support and help. One can say, "Yeah well mothers are supposed to do that," but this is what they experienced. In their eyes she's magical.

Honestly, I think that’s a large part of the show’s point - there is magic in the mundane, in the ordinary, everyday moments of life. I think it’s why so many people find something to connect to in it. 

[CountryGirl]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:13 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

Okay, Show, I give up. You win.

Up to last night I kept thinking of the many ways that the show is unrealistic. The successful careers, the good relationships with exes, the perfect children, recovery from trauma/addiction, even distance between places are things I have often criticized as being a fairy tale and not real life. But last night I realized I want a fairy tale. I want good people having good things happen to them. Realism is full of COVID, inflation, war in Europe, lost jobs, messy divorces, and damaged children. So I'm good with forgetting realism. Give me a happy ending, Show (with just a little bit of snark). I want it. I NEED it.

I could not have said it better myself.

The show has just enough painfully realistic moments for me to keep it from going into fantasy-land. I want to see the Big 3 get their happy ending, too.

And I really, really want to see Rebecca reunited in the afterlife with Jack, Miguel, and, most of all, Kyle (as played by JH). 

[Eliot]

4 hours ago, mishap said:

I was bothered by Kevin and Randall when they were saying 'that is not our mother' and something about taking care of what is left of her.  

I do not know how many years since she had been diagnosed but it had been several.    I don't understand how they could say things like that, when they have been watching her decline for years.  

Maybe others  don't see it like that but someone suffering from dementia, is still that person. They are sick.  It is hard and heart breaking to watch but  to me they sounded so cold. 'That is not our mother'.  Yes it is.   

 Typical Pearsons, they are thinking of how it is for them . But Rebecca is who she is, and  yes, the disease robs her of so much and them too. But any illness takes things away.   

I don't really know if i can put it into words but  I feel like , as adults who have watched the progression for years, that by this point they should know and be more accepting that this is  Mom now , and you care for her and love her for who and want she is now, just as you would any one who was ill.   You can hate the disease and wish things were different but it is their reality. 

Thank you for this. It bothered me tremendously to hear that line and you articulated my feelings perfectly.

ETA, the more I think about it, the angrier I feel about this overly sanitized portrayal of what this disease truly does to people and their families. I just read an interview with the show creators about how committed they were to representing it “authentically,” and all I can say is, if this is their idea of “authentic,” they have failed miserably.

They had an opportunity to do something really important and true to life, and they blew it.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Eliot
Rage

[CountryGirl]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:11 AM, ams1001 said:

I have mixed feelings on that. I get where they're coming from (and the scene was fun) and the Pearsons are, indeed, a lot, but they're also dealing with some big things and I don't blame Philip for being a little put off by their attitude. I was leaning more toward his side than theirs.

I have mixed feelings as well and can empathize but I didn't care for Beth with a bit of assist from Sophie being somewhat "know your place." I doubt they would have done that to Toby if he had spoken up (although Toby is more a fan of dark humor) and Phillip has been with Kate for several years more with Kate at this point than Toby. At what point is Phillip allowed to have an opinion about his own family? Beth and Sophie knowing the Pearsons longer does not give them the right to all but tell Phillip to sit down and shut up. 

[Maximona]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:55 AM, Janie430 said:

Randall's come through all his with his life approach and sense of self completely intact.

I seem to recall that Randall was affected by debilitating anxiety attacks the first couple of seasons, no?  It was a definite plot point.

[ams1001]

23 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I have many, many friends and acquaintances who have done the same (getting a degree while caring for young kids, some SAH parents, some with a part-time or full-time job, some with, some without a spouse). Kate is not a unicorn here but I can agree that if one dislikes Kate, then they are going to view this differently, despite that the degree and the current job is several years in the making and completely in the realm of possibility.

I think part of it is just that we've seen little or nothing of Kate's path to her career or her end-game relationship. I don't doubt she could have gotten her masters in the intervening years. I feel like we've been "told" more of Kate's story while we've "seen" much more of Kevin's and (especially) Randall's.

[CountryGirl]

16 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

Agree. Not sure why she would be considered "magical." 

They are not speaking of Rebecca as adults, reflecting on her as a parent, but how they saw her from their perspectives of children. A very different lens.

My mom is "magical" to me for the same reasons, even if people would deem her raising me and my five siblings as ordinary, mundane, what's expected etc.

Like reading to me at night and, as I learned how, letting me read to her. Instilling in me a lifelong love of reading. If that isn't magical, I don't know what is.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I have mixed feelings as well and can empathize but I didn't care for Beth with a bit of assist from Sophie being somewhat "know your place." I doubt they would have done that to Toby if he had spoken up (although Toby is more a fan of dark humor) and Phillip has been with Kate for several years more with Kate at this point than Toby. At what point is Phillip allowed to have an opinion about his own family? Beth and Sophie knowing the Pearsons longer does not give them the right to all but tell Phillip to sit down and shut up. 

Beth did have an attitude when she was dismissing Philip.  I get that she knows her husband and Kevin and how they react, and that her coping mechanisms were on full display, but I wish she was a little more self-aware in those scenes in the cabin.  It would have gone a long way if she would have told Philip that this is how she personally copes with being married to a Pearson.  Because she was quick to tell Randall not to underestimate Kate when they were talking.  

[peeayebee]

53 minutes ago, mishap said:

I was bothered by Kevin and Randall when they were saying 'that is not our mother' and something about taking care of what is left of her.  

I do not know how many years since she had been diagnosed but it had been several.    I don't understand how they could say things like that, when they have been watching her decline for years.  

My sister and I said that about our mother. Yes of course this is the same person, so yes of course you love her and take care of her, but the disease creates a facade. It's that facade that is not the person you've always known. In our case, like in many others, our mother's personality changed. She went from sweet, funny, and kind to angry,  sometimes violent, and mean. Saying "That's not mom" helped to remind us that the ugliness was beyond her control.

As has been said, Rebecca has not shown this kind of personality change, so even I feel like that comment of theirs wasn't completely warranted. 

 

39 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Having just been all the way through this process, I can attest to the fact that it can take a really long time. My mother started having obvious cognitive decline at least 15 years before she died and she was pretty far into it for nearly a decade. 

In hindsight I wondered about the times many many years before my mother was diagnosed when she would forget things or get lost. It's not always easy to tell when the first signs appeared.

[MamaGee]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:02 AM, Jillybean said:

do think there's probably a reason Kate and her crew are the last to arrive (even Toby beat them there). I just don't know what it is.

Because they are coming from California?? But that's where Toby and Jack would be coming from. 

[TeapotDiva]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I was out of town for a few days and unable to watch until late last night and show got me again. I think some of that is just seeing my MIL in Rebecca as she has Alzheimer's and my own mother getting older and seeing her decline a bit. You're just never, ever ready for any of this.

The opening montage with Rebecca caring for the kids and showcasing that strong mother's love as she dealt with the wee hours of the morning incidents was so touching. And WTAF Jack to never getting his ass out of bed to spell his exhausted wife?

Those scenes with baby Kate and LOL to them watching Knot's Landing together and Rebecca falling asleep sitting straight up as one does when running on less than fumes is so true to life. Her waking up to Kate screaming from falling on the floor and her panic was so real as was her keeping vigil by Kate's crib that night.

That scene being tied to Kate reading to Rebecca. That age-old shift from being parented by your parents to parenting them.

Kate smiling at her mother the next morning to give her the reassurance that "I'm okay, Mommy" was sweet relief.

Later, Kate bemoaning being behind her brothers in everything, including losing teeth. Showing the origins of Kate feeling lost in her brothers' shadow, through present-day. We see further evidence of this with Kate being infantilized a little bit while Randall gets let in on the Tooth Fairy secret. But that also came with Randall feeling more of the burden of responsibility and the need to control everything while Kate and Kevin, to a lesser extent, felt inferior.

Rebecca did smooth things over a little bit by reassuring Kate she would catch up and then some and young Kate was just the cutest when she said, "Well, maybe with Kevin."

Fast-forward to the teenage years with Randall punching out a guy who was trying to take advantage of a drunk, vulnerable Kate, which I don't advocate violence, but an exception and a point for you, Randall. Kate feeling like she was a "dud" and clearly being eclipsed by her brothers. She cannot know, of course, that Rebecca takes Kevin to task for his drunken messiness and basically tells him to grow up.

The present-day scenes with Kevin and Randall having a pissing contest over what to do with Rebecca with Miguel recently passed and seeing how even though Kate was in the room, she might as well have been invisible, resonated with me. Beth and Sophie were spot-on in their imitation of their spouses. The impressions, words, tone, cadence, body language - all of it was perfection. Poor Phillip, who doesn't have the history and baggage, tries to interject and I love that the women shut him down, although nicely. Beth made me laugh so hard when she talked about having 30 years with this family and she has to hole up and blow off steam what with all the Pearson feelings and speeches and grand gestures like letting people (cough-William-cough) move in. Then she softens, saying being part of this family is both the greatest burden and the greatest blessing in her life, which Sophie seconds. It's a bonding moment for the in-laws.

Rebecca asking about Miguel and it not clicking that he is gone is absolutely true to real-life scenarios. It's just heartbreaking to watch and rather than tell her the truth - that he is dead - they say he's somewhere else. 

The bickering back and forth between the brothers and of, course, Randall wants Rebecca to move in with him and the family in Philadelphia and Kevin calling out, quite correctly, that with his role as senator, he's not going to be there that much for his mother (and what isn't said is that the heavy lifting will be left to Beth). Kevin is also delusional if he thinks dropping in a few times a month to the cabin is a long-term solution.

Kate wisely removes herself from that heated discussion to take her mom for a walk. The brothers comment that Rebecca is no longer the woman she once was and that was another moment for me, particularly as we see that moment juxtaposed with Kate and Rebecca having a walk outside. 

I loved the phone call/pep talk with Toby. I love seeing that they are on good terms, that he is dating Laura, and that they have a healthy co-parenting relationship. He has the perspective Phillip is only now starting to gain with respect to the steamrolling that is Randall and Kevin. He urges her not to revert to the lesser version of herself (being the background to her brothers' foreground) as Rebecca chose her for a reason. She knew Randall and Kevin would do what they often do - fight over who knows better and Kate could be trusted to be neutral. We also learn that Kate has gotten her master's degree and is helping to design an arts curriculum for California. I'm sure many eyes rolled during this scene, but mine did not. It's been several years since she got the promo and given that she persevered with final getting her undergrad degree, I don't find it that far-fetched that she would have gotten her masters' and I (at a table for one, probably) am happy to see Kate growing her education, skills, and career as a whole. 

Randall trying to get Beth on his side about his plans for Rebecca and Beth shutting him down by reminding him that Kevin is not the irresponsible chucklefuck he used to be nor Kate the passive, overwhelmed person she used to be. When she said, "you keep thinking about Kate and Kevin as who they used to be instead of who they are," I cheered.

Kate, finally ready to address her brothers on equal footing, calls them out on the fact that neither of them really looks or sees or touches their mother anymore, not wanting to face what she has, their mother is in serious decline. 

And here come the tears as she takes them into the bedroom and has Randall brush her hair (and shut up about having daughters and knowing about hair, Randall, and just listen to your sister) and has Kevin apply lotion to her hands. Rebecca enjoying the sensation, tilting her head back, closing her eyes, and smiling. It was a powerful, powerful scene.

Though she is not their mother as the "magic" she once was, she is still here, still their mom, and very much in need of them and their love.

We hear Kate's plan - to move Rebecca in with them or in a memory care facility, and for once, both brothers hear her out.

Then come more tears as Kevin shares The Manny is ending, his new adventure, Big 3 Homes is obviously based on the East Coast, and he and Sophie are going to move into the dream cabin with Rebecca. Sophie clearly has no fondness for Los Angeles and confirms she is onboard.

Kate questioning Kevin being that far away from the twins and Madison responding, "He won't." OMG, that really got me in the feels. Learning that Madison and Elijah have grown to love the area and Elijah's family will be much closer in NJ and will be moving east as well. Wow. You got me over and over again, show.

Nicky and Edie will be close by as well and offering to help - I mean, that is really the epitome of family, isn't it?

Kate's comment about the significance of she, Kevin, and Randall being a trio and it somehow being a bit fated, given where they are now, and she agrees to Kevin's proposal. That flashback to Rebecca and Jack learning she is pregnant and obviously before they knew it would be 3 vs 1 baby.

We opened with a montage, we close with a montage, and nobody does it better than this show. We hear the "To Build a Home" song that we heard when the night of the fire as well as the first flash-forward at the dream house. We see Sophie and Kevin settling in with Rebecca, Randall and Kate visiting, the extended family with Madison and Elijah. We see the passage of time and Kevin growing the beard and getting more gray. And all the while, the sand in the hourglass keeps trickling away.

Then the moment I and they have been dreading - Kevin's phone call, summoning them to the home because Rebecca is nearing the end.

I am so not ready for the final two episodes, next week's especially.

Now, off to read this thread.

Countrygirl, I wish I could like your post a hundred times.  So beautiful and perceptive.  Thank you.

[MamaGee]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:20 AM, Cristofle said:

For whatever reason, it was the scene when Rebecca was reading Goodnight Moon to Baby Randall juxtaposed with him reading to her that got me to tears. I think because my mom read that book to me so often.

Since we are all talking about how this show meets us right. where. we. are, I have to add my 2 cents. I am an almost empty-nester, who is dealing with how much my role has and will change. Due to my husband's career and our choice, I stayed home with our kids. I am so thankful for that opportunity and wouldn't change that choice for anything. 

However, as they launch from our home, my role is changing, my identity is changing, etc. And I find myself wondering if my kids will remember. And watching Rebecca do all the mommy things, from reading bedtime stories to tying shoes, etc. made me realize one of the questions I have about the changes I am going through: will they remember? Will they remember our nightly routine? Will the remember the smoothies I made everyday after school? I don't need them to remember FOR me, I just hope they will fondly look back and remember.

Off to cry now....

[CountryGirl]

@MamaGee - they will remember. ❤️

[SunnyBeBe]

I think most children remember the loving things done by parents, but I will say that it doesn’t necessarily translate to providing care to declining parents who have dementia.  We haven’t seen much of that with Rebecca, but often dementia makes people hostile, reckless, accusatory, even violent.  Adult children have difficulty navigating that.  

[nlkm9]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show compressed 5 years into one episode, so it may look like Kate and Philip hooked up as soon as the ink was dry on her divorce papers.  Philip did take Kate out to karaoke on the day those papers were signed, but as friends.  That happened sometime in 2023.  Kate and Philip's first date was at the Mexican restaurant sometime after that.  It could have been six months later or a year later.  Kate and Philip get married sometime in 2026 before her and Kevin's birthday at the end of August. 

I still dont see Kates story as beleivable. jmo.

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I have many, many friends and acquaintances who have done the same (getting a degree while caring for young kids, some SAH parents, some with a part-time or full-time job, some with, some without a spouse). Kate is not a unicorn here but I can agree that if one dislikes Kate, then they are going to view this differently, despite that the degree and the current job is several years in the making and completely in the realm of possibility.

I actually iiked Kate as a character until they did this whole magical phillip love story--its not the characters fault but it all seemed unrealistic to me. I am glad she and Toby get along now.

[Dowel Jones]

I wanted to echo Kevin's point that Randall wouldn't be available for his mother all that much.  C'mon, Randall, did you somehow forget that your job description is United States Senator from Pennsylvania?  It's a full time, and sometimes time and a half, job.  And a long way from PA, although commuting to DC would be possible.  However, it's not the Philadelphia City Council, and you're not going to be able to Pearson your way out of a confirmation vote or a foreign policy crisis with the reason that "I have to go home to care for my Mom."

[Red Bridey]

My mother didn't have dementia or Alzheimers, but she had a four year decline after her youngest son (my younger brother) died unexpectedly, throwing her into a depression that never really eased. She started to fall for no reason, cracked her pelvis, needed rehab, and then she basically slept her life away until she passed away at 90. I remember once she was home from the hospital and complained to me that her oldest son who lived with her wouldn't look at her any more, so that line from Kate really touched me. I am not a natural caregiver, and I can't say I enjoyed being her primary caregiver, but I was determined to keep her as comfortable as possible as she slowly but peacefully passed away. I was a stronger version of Kate, because my brothers were pretty useless at helping Mom as she aged. This has been a pretty hard show to watch, I must say. Oh, and I think Kevin is yummy, with or without beard. YUM!

[Shermie]

4 hours ago, mishap said:

Maybe others  don't see it like that but someone suffering from dementia, is still that person. They are sick.  It is hard and heart breaking to watch but  to me they sounded so cold. 'That is not our mother'.  Yes it is. 

I disagree. With severe dementia, the person’s essence is gone. Only their body, a shell, remains. People with dementia often display traits and do things they’d never do in their non-dementia life - swear, racism, nudity, rudeness, poor hygiene. Because it’s not them; it’s only the disease living in their body. 

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

if Randall can be a US senator with next to no government/political experience and Kevin can be a fairly famous/successful actor not coming from NYC or LA and being reared to that career from an early age, then Kate can accomplish what she is said to have accomplished.

I have no opinion on Kate’s accomplishments, but Randall was a city councillor before becoming a senator. That’s a fairly common political career move; you start at the local level, then move to state or provincial, and sometimes federal. Isn’t that how Obama’s career went? And then there’s Trump, who went straight to the top job without a lick of political experience. 

As for Kevin’s acting career, it seems success in Hollywood is a crap shoot. It helps if someone is very attractive, which Kevin is, and has ambition. 

4 hours ago, bonniejmac said:

Honestly, I think that’s a large part of the show’s point - there is magic in the mundane, in the ordinary, everyday moments of life. I think it’s why so many people find something to connect to in it. 

I think you hit the nail on the head. This show will be remembered fondly once it’s gone.

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

And I really, really want to see Rebecca reunited in the afterlife with Jack, Miguel, and, most of all, Kyle (as played by JH). 

Aw man, are there enough Kleenex on the shelves for that?

[debraran]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think most children remember the loving things done by parents, but I will say that it doesn’t necessarily translate to providing care to declining parents who have dementia.  We haven’t seen much of that with Rebecca, but often dementia makes people hostile, reckless, accusatory, even violent.  Adult children have difficulty navigating that.  

When I took care of dementia patients at home as an aide when my kids were young, it was when most could be home but on the cusp of a facility. No children lived with them or wanted too I suppose but they would not be able to cook or take meds on their own. Some were terribly forgetful and I'd tell my husband my great joke can be reused but it was incredibly sad. One woman I grew close too and when her daughter said she would be going to a nursing home, i remember going to the elevator and just crying. I did visit her once and she was in their "chapel" and didn't remember me but was nice.

My friends mom was combative, angry a lot (but I'm not sure if ultra sweet before) and wet the bed as many do. She tried so long to keep her home but she also unfortunately had a racist attitude that came out in her disease without a filter. She couldn't hire anyone that she would abuse and agencies would not of course, just send white aides. It was unfortunate for her that the worst of her mom was brought out and made getting help harder. Most understand the disease but they don't want constant hurtful comments hurled toward them.

I'm glad they showed Rebecca not as bad, the vacant looks say a lot, but I think we might see a little more next time. It depends on how Dan wants it to play out.

Edited May 12, 2022 by debraran

[Quiet1]

This episode we see Toby wearing a wedding ring, so he is already married to Laura. We saw them in the future scene where Jack is performing so we know they are still alive and together at that point. So the future scene of Toby in the hotel getting ready to go to the cabin was for shock value? He wasn't wearing a ring so that we would speculate what happened to Kate and Toby/Kate I guess. 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

I have no opinion on Kate’s accomplishments, but Randall was a city councillor before becoming a senator. That’s a fairly common political career move; you start at the local level, then move to state or provincial, and sometimes federal. Isn’t that how Obama’s career went? And then there’s Trump, who went straight to the top job without a lick of political experience. 

As for Kevin’s acting career, it seems success in Hollywood is a crap shoot. It helps if someone is very attractive, which Kevin is, and has ambition. 

Obama was a civil rights lawyer, then served as a state senator for 8 years, then ran for the U.S. Senate. That's much more normal than Randall, who had been on a city council for just a few years when he was tapped for the U.S. Senate. I've never heard of any politician having that trajectory.

Kevin's career hasn't been very believable, either. He floundered in Hollywood for nearly 15 years, and then an agent saw him being terrible in an improv show, and took note of his handsomeness, and then suddenly he was The Manny making $4 million a season.

Pretty boy actors like Kevin (or Justin Hartley) who haven't gotten anywhere in Hollywood by the time they're 30 are doomed.

[desertflower]

5 hours ago, MamaGee said:

Since we are all talking about how this show meets us right. where. we. are, I have to add my 2 cents. I am an almost empty-nester, who is dealing with how much my role has and will change. Due to my husband's career and our choice, I stayed home with our kids. I am so thankful for that opportunity and wouldn't change that choice for anything. 

However, as they launch from our home, my role is changing, my identity is changing, etc. And I find myself wondering if my kids will remember. And watching Rebecca do all the mommy things, from reading bedtime stories to tying shoes, etc. made me realize one of the questions I have about the changes I am going through: will they remember? Will they remember our nightly routine? Will the remember the smoothies I made everyday after school? I don't need them to remember FOR me, I just hope they will fondly look back and remember.

Off to cry now....

I feel you! Same boat, except I still have one at home who is 13. But I’ll be there in a few years and I often wonder if they will respect me even thought I didn’t have a career. I hope so, and hope they remember the little things (which are really big things.) 

This episode made me cry buckets and made me wonder if I can make it through the remaining ones!! 

Not sure if anyone mentioned it (I tried to read through all the comments but probably missed some) but I’m pretty sure the song they played during the montage at the end is the same one they played when the Pearson house was burning down.  😭😭

[Johnny Dollar]

Randall’s ascension from city councilman to US Senator isn’t as far fetched as people are making it seem. Neither of the senators from Georgia held any elective office before.  Many others were business people before becoming senators.  Plus, he’s a Pearson. A guarantee of success at the highest level with the minimum amount of effort, training or qualifications. 

[MamaGee]

11 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Agree. Not sure why she would be considered "magical." 

I think the magic of motherhood is in the little things, the every day. 

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Also, all the discussion about Kate and her master's degree and planning curriculum is amusing to me. In that, if Randall can be a US senator with next to no government/political experience and Kevin can be a fairly famous/successful actor not coming from NYC or LA and being reared to that career from an early age, then Kate can accomplish what she is said to have accomplished. 

I think the problem is that both her brothers are shown to be motivated from the very beginning in things that interest them.

Randall was always very smart and was a great student.

Kevin was always very popular and was a great athlete.

Kate has not shown any motivation for anything besides being a singer for 5 minutes. All of her storylines involved men who liked or loved her. She even got thrown out of fat camp because a gross guy hit on her.

Yes, it is possible to go from teacher's aid to designing curriculums for California in a relatively short amount of time but we were shown none of it. 

This is sad because it would have been a very interesting journey to see her become truly passionate about something. As other people have said, it would be cool to see someone find themselves relatively later in life.

Her last big plot point will be leaving Toby (because he did not want to get divorced and even left his job in San Francisco) and eventually marrying Phillip Mean Jerk.

Edited May 13, 2022 by qtpye

[Shermie]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Obama was a civil rights lawyer, then served as a state senator for 8 years, then ran for the U.S. Senate. That's much more normal than Randall, who had been on a city council for just a few years when he was tapped for the U.S. Senate. I've never heard of any politician having that trajectory.

Trump.

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Pretty boy actors like Kevin (or Justin Hartley) who haven't gotten anywhere in Hollywood by the time they're 30 are doomed.

Odd comparison. Justin Hartley did some soap work and guest roles on network shows, but didn’t get anything regular until he was in his 30s. He became famous for TIU in his late 30s.

[Runningwild]

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

My sister and I said that about our mother. Yes of course this is the same person, so yes of course you love her and take care of her, but the disease creates a facade. It's that facade that is not the person you've always known. In our case, like in many others, our mother's personality changed. She went from sweet, funny, and kind to angry,  sometimes violent, and mean. Saying "That's not mom" helped to remind us that the ugliness was beyond her control.

As has been said, Rebecca has not shown this kind of personality change, so even I feel like that comment of theirs wasn't completely warranted. 

 

In hindsight I wondered about the times many many years before my mother was diagnosed when she would forget things or get lost. It's not always easy to tell when the first signs appeared.

I think it was more about the inability to connect with Rebecca. My mom suffered from dementia to the point where we were no longer able to have a conversation. That’s when you realize they’re not really there anymore. 

[Johnny Dollar]

When Kevin proposed that Rebecca could stay in the house and he and Sophie would take care of her, Beth’s face was “Please say yes! Please say yes! Please say yes!” while Sophie’s face was “Please say no! Please say no! Please say no!”

Capiche is a word they teach in the first day of Movie and TV Screenwriting 101. I grew up in Jersey in the 70s and the only time I heard that word is in a movie or tv show about the mafia or with stereotypical Italian characters. It’s usually accompanied by two light slaps on the cheek to insure that the person it is said to truly does “capiche”.

Predictions for the final flashforward: Randall is POTUS, Kevin is an Oscar winning actor and director, Kate wins the first Nobel Prize in Ret-Conning and Jack wins every Grammy award, even for Best Traditional Tejano Album and the ones about classical music that no one has ever heard of. 

[CountryGirl]

17 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I think part of it is just that we've seen little or nothing of Kate's path to her career or her end-game relationship. I don't doubt she could have gotten her masters in the intervening years. I feel like we've been "told" more of Kate's story while we've "seen" much more of Kevin's and (especially) Randall's.

I definitely agree that where Kate is concerned, show has done a lot more "tell" than "show." If they had time to show her being "stuck" in several episodes, they had time to show her in the process of getting "unstuck."

[cambridgeguy]

10 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Plus, he’s a Pearson. A guarantee of success at the highest level with the minimum amount of effort, training or qualifications. 

Randall probably considers himself a failure because he's just a senator and not POTUS.  That would solve some of the Rebecca issue - she could just live in the White House with 24/7 care and he'd usually be a five minute walk away.  It would also make Kate's meteoric career rise more believable - you better believe people would give the President's sister multiple opportunities above and beyond what's reasonable for a regular person.

[bonniejmac]

10 hours ago, MamaGee said:

I think the magic of motherhood is in the little things, the every day. 

Yeah, it’s like that meme that goes around Facebook every December that says something like, ‘the older I get the more I realize that the magic of Christmas was really just my mom who loved me so damn much.’

[donovan]

Quote

 I was bothered by Kevin and Randall when they were saying 'that is not our mother' and something about taking care of what is left of her.  

I do not know how many years since she had been diagnosed but it had been several.    I don't understand how they could say things like that, when they have been watching her decline for years.  

Maybe others  don't see it like that but someone suffering from dementia, is still that person. They are sick.  It is hard and heart breaking to watch but  to me they sounded so cold. 'That is not our mother'.  Yes it is.   

 

Sometimes you have to say these things to yourself to get through the moment.

In the 17 years from diagnosis to death with my dad, I had a few of those moments.

My Dad would never have tried to kick his own dog (an actual full force kick to the ribs) who was just walking up to him to get petted.  The thought would have horrified him.  He was Dr. Doolittle and loved/protected all animals.

My Dad wouldn't have tried to punch me in the face because the water got in his eyes while trying to shower him.  Thankfully I closed the sliding glass door just in time to avoid it from happening.  I can replay that moment in time perfectly from seeing the look in his eyes to the raising of his fist coming at me to the sound of his fist hitting the door. 

This person was certainly not my father.

 

 

[Good Queen Jane]

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Pretty boy actors like Kevin (or Justin Hartley) who haven't gotten anywhere in Hollywood by the time they're 30 are doomed.

May I present George Clooney, who was 33 when he started on ER. ( I have always thought of George Clooney as the model for Kevin.)

[mostlylurking]

Rebecca repeatedly asking for Miguel just broke my heart…especially thinking that she would have that same experience many, many times since she wouldn’t remember. 

I think this disease presents differently in everyone. My grandmother was very much like Rebecca. Very docile, quiet. Sometimes there would be anger or fear, but most of the time she was just very confused and just kind of sat there until someone engaged with her. She was very sweet most of the time, which was just so sad.

I think Kate made the best decision to leave her mom at the cabin. That had been her final wish. She will be able to stay in her familiar environment with the round the clock care she is used to. It also makes the most sense for Kevin and his family to move there as they have the most freedom with their jobs. In reality Kate wouldn’t have much time to make a cross country visit very often, but this is Pearson land where geography doesn’t exist so I’m sure she will visit plenty.

I don’t think it’s Philip’s place to make judgements on how the Pearson-adjacents deal with the overbearing big 3, and I’m glad Beth told him so in a nice way. I kind of side eyed Sophie saying she understood everything Beth was saying, I know emotionally she’s been tied to this family her whole life but she also spent a large chunk of her life without them.

I miss Miguel. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by mostlylurking

[Aloeonatable]

58 minutes ago, bonniejmac said:

Yeah, it’s like that meme that goes around Facebook every December that says something like, ‘the older I get the more I realize that the magic of Christmas was really just my mom who loved me so damn much.’

When I think of the word magical, it brings to mind something mystical or extraordinary. Maybe because I related to all that Rebecca did for her children when they were small, as something that all moms do for their children. I never would have thought of myself as magical. However, Rebecca's children did think of her as magical so she was magical.

10 hours ago, Runningwild said:

I think it was more about the inability to connect with Rebecca. My mom suffered from dementia to the point where we were no longer able to have a conversation. That’s when you realize they’re not really there anymore. 

My friend, who is now in the late stages of dementia, was unable to carry on a conversation within 4 years of her diagnosis. We had been close for 40 years. 

[mostlylurking]

19 hours ago, MamaGee said:

However, as they launch from our home, my role is changing, my identity is changing, etc. And I find myself wondering if my kids will remember. And watching Rebecca do all the mommy things, from reading bedtime stories to tying shoes, etc. made me realize one of the questions I have about the changes I am going through: will they remember? Will they remember our nightly routine? Will the remember the smoothies I made everyday after school? I don't need them to remember FOR me, I just hope they will fondly look back and remember.

So my daughter is only four, but I am also a stay at home mom and I so feel everything you wrote. Like she’s going to preschool in the fall for three days a week and I’m already so sad that she’s growing up, but also so happy and proud she’s growing. So bittersweet!!  I just want her to have good memories in the mundane as well, like our nightly routines, gardening, cooking together, etc. I’m telling you Rebecca really represents mom goals to me. She’s not doing anything crazy, she’s just being present with her kids. I didn’t really have that growing up and it’s like my life’s mission to not repeat that cycle. 

[mostlylurking]

On 5/11/2022 at 8:45 AM, Maximona said:

On 5/10/2022 at 10:35 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree that not many act like Rebecca.  She responds to questions, understands what is being said, co-operates with her caregivers, doesn’t resist care, walks with good balance, ……….that’s incredible. 

There are many variations.  My own (completely unsubstantiated) theory is that people regress to their childhood personalities.  Thus Rebecca has become a good little girl again.

I agree everyone presents differently with this disease. Like I said above, my grandmother was very much like Rebecca. However I also had a friend who’s father had Alzheimer’s and he could be very mean and belligerent. I don’t think they are presenting Rebecca’s disease unrealistically at all, since that’s what I experienced. 

[mostlylurking]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:02 PM, Tango64 said:

The look on Beth's face and her delivery of "Sure, we can talk...." was so good. That woman has spoken those words many times in that marriage.

Loved that. Also I loved the whole snarky convo with Beth and Sophie. It provided some much needed levity that is needed in such a heavy episode. “Thank you Randall!  Thank you for telling me our mother is our mother!”  Hee!!

On 5/11/2022 at 10:27 AM, Crs97 said:

I mean who says capiche?  

Lots of people if you live in NY/NJ area. 

[Eureka]

2 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

May I present George Clooney, who was 33 when he started on ER. ( I have always thought of George Clooney as the model for Kevin.)

Even down to the boy/girl twins!

[Lone Wolf]

21 hours ago, Maximona said:

I seem to recall that Randall was affected by debilitating anxiety attacks the first couple of seasons, no?  It was a definite plot point.

To the point that he temporarily went blind, IIRC.

4 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Predictions for the final flashforward: Randall is POTUS, Kevin is an Oscar winning actor and director, Kate wins the first Nobel Prize in Ret-Conning and Jack wins every Grammy award, even for Best Traditional Tejano Album and the ones about classical music that no one has ever heard of. 

You forgot about Kevin's Emmy for Best Comedy, which he'll get after the final season of The Manny reboot, and his Tony - he'll get bored breaking box office records and return to his first love, The Stage, where he'll receive accolades for his portrayal of Bruce Banner in "Hulk: The Musical".

I think it's pre-ordained that Randall will be POTUS.  I thought that as soon as he ran for Senator. 

It'll be a tight race, but in a desperate move that completely backfires, his opponent, Mike Prince from Billions, releases the tape of Randall dancing as he strips down to change clothes for a run and he wins by a landslide. 

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

 Also I loved the whole snarky convo with Beth and Sophie.

Came here to say exactly that.  My favorite part of this ep - they each nailed it.

 

 

[erikaelvis]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:18 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

 

The Big Three could’ve used much more alive Nicky in their lives than memories of dead Jack. 

In my opinion this is the saddest thing in the whole show.  It makes me dislike Jack immensely.

[Boo Boo]

6 minutes ago, erikaelvis said:

In my opinion this is the saddest thing in the whole show.  It makes me dislike Jack immensely.

Well, given how easily Randall forgave his mother for lying about his bio dad, I'm sure this hasn't spoiled their memory of their saintly father.

[watch2much]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:48 PM, tennisgurl said:

I just find it so bizarre how rushed so much of this season has been. Its been six seasons, the show could have kept going for another season or two at least, they knew that this was the endgame, the show chose to end now, why does it feel like the frantic scrabble you get when a show's been suddenly cancelled, especially with Kate's divorce, marriage, and career, she totally changed her life in about three episodes. 

I know that this show has never nailed pacing (how much time can we spend watching Randall's bio mom sell veggies or Deja engage in awkward teen flirting) but come on, I feel like Kate's getting cliff notes. 

I agree.  there was so much that could have been mined.  the Philip/Kate romance needed to evolve, much less her academic achievements.  all of a sudden Randall is a Senator (I guess opposition research never found out about his mental breakdown)..Kevin starting the company....it's all mushed in together.  Plus, they had started story lines for the grandchildren I would have liked to see.  instead, poor Randall's kids have disappeared after we became invested in their lives.....

[RedbirdNelly]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:08 PM, Dani-Ellie said:

For me, this was fine. I am a few years older than my brother and sister and thus learned the truth about the Tooth Fairy before they even started losing their baby teeth. Knowing the truth while they still believed was kinda fun for me. It made me feel a little more grown-up that 1) I knew the truth, and 2) my parents trusted me not to ruin the magic for my siblings.

Rebecca really didn’t have a lot of options there. The very idea of the Tooth Fairy was freaking Randall out. She had to do something to ease his mind without taking the experience away from Kate and Kevin, especially since Kevin was excited. 

Agree 100%. The scene was an example of her figuring out and providing what each child needed.

Kevin's reaction to the tooth fairy reminded me of my youngest--who when told the tooth fairy would come insisted I put the TF pillow next to his bed and not put it under his pillow. His reasoning was he did not want the TF waking him up!

I was crying solid pretty much from the scene where Kevin puts lotion on his mom's hands. My last visit with my Nana involved a lot of sitting with her and rubbing lotion on her hands.  I was sobbing through the end of the episode. I thought it was really well done. I don't care about things being realistic--I was glad they came up with a good way for her to stay in the house. 

[Shermie]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

Well, given how easily Randall forgave his mother for lying about his bio dad, I'm sure this hasn't spoiled their memory of their saintly father

Again, the memory of Jack being saintly is because he died young and suddenly and tragically.

My son died suddenly last year, leaving behind 3 school-aged children. I hope they remember their father as being awesome and perfect, even if he did yell at them sometimes and get mad and exasperated, like any father. Why wouldn’t the Big Three remember their dead father as being great? He can’t undo any mistakes or apologize or fix things now. Just let them have their memories as they want them.

My mother is in Rebecca’s stage of life, but much older and not especially easy-going. I have conflicted feelings being her caregiver because it’s all just annoyance to me at this point, and I don’t have many great childhood memories to fall back on. My parents put all their stock into working hard and saving money and being well-behaved. Life was fine, but it wasn’t magical in any way, not even through a childlike memory lens. I wish I thought of my father as a saint who died too young and my mother as loving and magical, but that’s not what I got. The Big Three did, and they’re luckier for it.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

To the point that he temporarily went blind, IIRC.

You forgot about Kevin's Emmy for Best Comedy, which he'll get after the final season of The Manny reboot, and his Tony - he'll get bored breaking box office records and return to his first love, The Stage, where he'll receive accolades for his portrayal of Bruce Banner in "Hulk: The Musical".

I think it's pre-ordained that Randall will be POTUS.  I thought that as soon as he ran for Senator. 

It'll be a tight race, but in a desperate move that completely backfires, his opponent, Mike Prince from Billions, releases the tape of Randall dancing as he strips down to change clothes for a run and he wins by a landslide. 

Came here to say exactly that.  My favorite part of this ep - they each nailed it.

 

 

What about Kevin’s Emmy for that home reno reality show he and Senator Randall do?  Remember how they renovated that building a few seasons back?  They decide to do it again after the Manny reboot ended and yep….. Emmy. 
 

lol!!

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

Again, the memory of Jack being saintly is because he died young and suddenly and tragically.

My son died suddenly last year, leaving behind 3 school-aged children. I hope they remember their father as being awesome and perfect, even if he did yell at them sometimes and get mad and exasperated, like any father. Why wouldn’t the Big Three remember their dead father as being great? He can’t undo any mistakes or apologize or fix things now. Just let them have their memories as they want them.

My mother is in Rebecca’s stage of life, but much older and not especially easy-going. I have conflicted feelings being her caregiver because it’s all just annoyance to me at this point, and I don’t have many great childhood memories to fall back on. My parents put all their stock into working hard and saving money and being well-behaved. Life was fine, but it wasn’t magical in any way, not even through a childlike memory lens. I wish I thought of my father as a saint who died too young and my mother as loving and magical, but that’s not what I got. The Big Three did, and they’re luckier for it.

I'm so sorry about your son and my heart goes out to you and his young children.

I know grief as well, and so does my daughter as my husband died when she was 14.  She does not remember her father as a perfect, saintly person and I'm happy for that.    It's important for her to remember he was human, just like she is.   He was a wonderful guy, a great dad, and she remembers him for that.  But she does not hold him up to be the most incredible, perfect human that ever lived and she doesn't hold her friends, her boyfriend up to an impossible standard that no one could possibly meet.

And again, I'm so sorry about your son. I can't even begin to image how painful that is. Hope you have a great support system around you, as well as his family.  

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Patricia07]

Kevin does a documentary about Alzheimers and wins an Oscar or Emmy.