S06.E16: Family Meeting

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

but is considered qualified to actually develop an entire educational program for California students.

I'm going to assume she is part of a committee and not designing an entire arts curriculum on her own, and is not at all in charge of it. Because that would at least make a little more sense.

Edited May 11, 2022 by ams1001

[Jax7917]

Jack's character has been reduced to him sleeping throughout an entire episode . Milo is the luckiest actor for being able to stay on such a popular series and being thrown into episodes with barely any dialogue but i'm sure still making a pretty paycheck. There's also no way that saint Jack, who always needs to be everyone's savior, wouldn't wake up if Rebecca or the kids needed him. He'd be making 3am speeches.

[Good Queen Jane]

1 minute ago, Jax7917 said:

There's also no way that saint Jack, who always needs to be everyone's savior, wouldn't wake up if Rebecca or the kids needed him. He'd be making 3am speeches.

And that's how the Big 3 learned to sleep through the night. Jack would Pearson speechify them until they dropped off.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

the good relationships with exes,

Eh, I know a few people with good relationships with exes. My best friend's parents have been divorced for at least 35 years and they get along fine (probably not in the beginning but they have three kids so they had to learn to deal with each other). My aunt has been divorced for as long as I can remember, but she and her ex seem to have been better as friends than spouses. She even went with him on a business trip once to help watch his then-toddler son (who he had with his third ex-wife and is ~30 years younger than my cousin) while he was in conferences or whatever during the day (hey, she got a free trip to DC and got to do whatever she wanted in the evenings).

If you have kids it's in everyone's best interests to learn how to get along and work together, and since there wasn't really anything unforgiveable like cheating or abuse I buy that they would eventually get to a good place (which we did see evolve via montage in the Katoby episode).

[Madding crowd]

I’m happy Kate found a career she likes and I’m someone who got certified as a teacher ( had a bachelors in another field) , and a masters in my mid-forties while raising kids. It is no more crazy than Randall’s political career. I don’t think we need to see Rebecca swearing at her caregiver or need to see her diapers-we know what dementia brings. I have a cousin whose husband was diagnosed with dementia over 15 years ago and he isn’t much different besides getting easily frustrated and a little forgetful. I enjoyed the episode and the idea that the child may someday care for the parent. 

[anniebird]

19 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Okay, Show, I give up. You win.

Up to last night I kept thinking of the many ways that the show is unrealistic. The successful careers, the good relationships with exes, the perfect children, recovery from trauma/addiction, even distance between places are things I have often criticized as being a fairy tale and not real life. But last night I realized I want a fairy tale. I want good people having good things happen to them. Realism is full of COVID, inflation, war in Europe, lost jobs, messy divorces, and damaged children. So I'm good with forgetting realism. Give me a happy ending, Show (with just a little bit of snark). I want it. I NEED it.

I'm with you - I just roll with whatever the show throws at me and try not to overthink everything. I mean, I watched all 7 seasons of Gilmore Girls where every week had 3 Fridays.

 

[Maximona]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree that not many act like Rebecca.  She responds to questions, understands what is being said, co-operates with her caregivers, doesn’t resist care, walks with good balance, ……….that’s incredible. 

There are many variations.  My own (completely unsubstantiated) theory is that people regress to their childhood personalities.  Thus Rebecca has become a good little girl again.

If I'm ever magically transported to a universe where this show's characters exist as real live humans, remind me not to vote for Randall Pearson for Senator.  The idea that an elected political official would not spend five days a week in D.C. is appalling to me—however virtuous the underlying motivation.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I’m happy Kate found a career she likes and I’m someone who got certified as a teacher ( had a bachelors in another field) , and a masters in my mid-forties while raising kids. It is no more crazy than Randall’s political career.

Kate could have easily decided to go back to school knowing she had time when the kids were with Toby.  It takes diligence to plan out your weeks and do assignments early, but it can be done when you are coming home to an empty house for days at a time.  We have already seen her doing the research to better assist Jack growing up, I don't think it's a stretch for Kate to decide to go back to school in the process. 

[gonzosgirrl]

They can explain how all the stars lined up for Kate to get a Masters and ascend to designing curriculum for the most populated state in the union all they want. I still won't buy it.

I'm curious to see if they will stick with the Toby in the original flash forward who didn't think he would be welcome at vigil for Rebecca. He and Kate certainly seemed on great terms in this episode.

[Janie430]

So I get that Kevin was a prat as a teenager, but my heart felt a little bad for him.  I get that Rebecca was overloaded, but her husband was an alcoholic, she knew her father in law was an alcoholic, and her son is coping with a trauma by drinking.  I wish Rebecca had been in a place where she could have had a real talk with Kevin about it, but they've written it that she was just unable to deal with Jack's alcoholism, and therefore couldn't talk to Kevin about it.

Also, over the course of the series, we saw Kevin and Kate crack up and hit rock bottom, and see how all their coping mechanisms hurt them.  I had always felt that season 5 would have had Randall hitting rock bottom, except COVID, and George Floyd.  So I feel that they missed an opportunity.  The series essentially ends with Kate and Kevin coming to terms with their own flaws and trying to change them and their life, and Randall's come through all his with his life approach and sense of self completely intact.

I mean we have Beth telling him that he's treating his siblings like they were at the beginning of the series, but we still haven't seen Randall seeing that he didn't always see Kevin or Kate clearly even then.  He was so dismissive of Kevin's work on the Manny then, and he acted like Kevin was never kind to him or treated him like a brother, and yet we saw incidents of Kevin being supportive of Randall throughout their childhood (if not enough of them).  And he's never acknowledged the toxic mixture of comfort eating and spoiling from Jack and the complicated issues Rebecca inherited from her own mother and passed on to Kate.  

Kevin made choices based on family and cracked up because of his addiction, and he gave up being a "serious" actor - i.e. he accepted being a rich sitcom actor, but not getting serious roles or being seen as a player.  Kate made choices based on her addiction, and her issues, and in order to grow as a person and be happy, she had to walk away from her first marriage.  And Randall - the overachieving obessive with anxiety issues who does crazy things like buying a building on impulse that should crack him up somewhere - - - becoems a Senator.

 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

And Randall - the overachieving obessive with anxiety issues who does crazy things like buying a building on impulse

Does he still own that building?

[peeayebee]

12 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I wish someone would tell Beth to shut up.

I think since many people love Beth's snark, the writers are doing a lot of it, but for me it's too much. I liked Beth and Sophie doing their impressions of their respective spouses, but it was hard to watch them make their little jokes while Kate, Kevin, and Randall were trying to figure out how to care for Rebecca. I know that people often make jokes to deal with difficult situations, but still this rubbed me the wrong way.

 

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Loved the call with Toby and Kate and how supportive he was.

I loved this, too, esp when he joked about getting back together. I still don't like that the show broke them up and thought Philip was better for Kate.

Quote

The first five minutes broke my heart with Rebecca asking for Miguel and the last montage destroyed me. Between that we needed Beth and Sophie mocking the drama even if it was kind of rude in light of the situation.

I was crying from the get-go with this episode. I thought, What the hell is the rest of the ep going to do to me?

 

10 hours ago, Shermie said:

I really liked the juxtaposition of Rebecca caring for the Big Three over the years, and now it’s their turn to care for her. She can care for 3 kids pretty much by herself for 20 years, and it takes 3 of them to care for her for a few years. 

It's a cliche (yet true) that parents care for the kids then the kids care for the parents, but this was done really well.

 

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I really liked the scene with Beth explaining to Randall that he's seeing former versions of Kevin and Kate rather than who they are in the present.

I liked Beth tell him this, too. I hadn't thought about it before. 

I had no problem with Randall telling Kate that he knows how to brush hair because he has daughters. Whether the hair is the same texture or not, he knows to be gentle. And why the heck wouldn't he brush his mother's hair gently? 

It's TV land, but I couldn't help but roll my eyes at how easy it is for this extended family to move here there and everywhere to be there for Rebecca. However, it's a TV show about family and relationships and how love conquers all. It's not about struggling with the constraints of money or employment. And that's ok.

I still want that house.

[nilyank]

I don’t have  the issue that Kate got her masters. It would have been ten years or so since Jack was born that she graduated from community college. There is enough time in that decade for Kate to finish her bachelors degree at a 4 year college in education and finish her master. Even if she went part time.

it is the whole idea that she will be writing the curriculum for all of  California that is unbelievable especially if she just only got her masters in the last couple of years. Maybe in another 5-10 years after this time frame when she is moving away from the classroom and working with students and looking for another challenge.

Once again they had originally aged up Rebecca, Kevin and Randall too much in the flash forwards. Nicky and Frannie are not older than 13 in the ff so that it is only a couple of years only. They look liked they aged more than a decade and a half since they had this family meeting and it doesn’t make sense.  The Big Three should be in their early 50s when Rebecca finally dies.

Edited May 11, 2022 by nilyank

[gonzosgirrl]

14 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I like that Beth & Sophie looked very slightly chagrined, but didn't back down on the fact that the Big Three are a lot and a little mockery is a necessity.

Quoting myself here to add - they were mocking the method and predictability of their communication, not the content, and I'm okay with that.

Edited May 11, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I think since many people love Beth's snark, the writers are doing a lot of it, but for me it's too much. I liked Beth and Sophie doing their impressions of their respective spouses, but it was hard to watch them make their little jokes while Kate, Kevin, and Randall were trying to figure out how to care for Rebecca. I know that people often make jokes to deal with difficult situations, but still this rubbed me the wrong way.

I have mixed feelings on that. I get where they're coming from (and the scene was fun) and the Pearsons are, indeed, a lot, but they're also dealing with some big things and I don't blame Philip for being a little put off by their attitude. I was leaning more toward his side than theirs.

[Cheyanne11]

11 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Sorry, but I laughed out loud at the amazing convenience of Madison and Elijah moving back east. It was the equal of Philip's wife being hit by a car.

That's his blind wife, thankyouverymuch.  But, yeah, that and the Kate-has-her-Master's were the two points last night where I rolled my eyes.  Everything else really got to me--the montage at the end was gut-wrenching--including how I'm now craving walnut shrimp.

Also, and I don't know why, but I just have never warmed to Sophie.  

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

including how I'm now craving walnut shrimp.

I don't eat either walnuts or shrimp but all the Chinese food has me kinda wanting some chicken and broccoli.

[Aloeonatable]

I too wished they would have been more realistic in the portrayal of someone with dementia. They literally skipped over the hard parts, to show Rebecca as almost comatose. 

They really showed what it was like for a stay at home mom. I didn't work outside the home for the first 15 years of my marriage. I always got up in the middle of the night with the children. Of course I didn't have 3 infants at a time, but I did have 3, aged 4, 2 and a newborn. In Jack's defense, he did go start the bath for dirty Kevin. He was also the first one up to attend to Kevin, so theres that. 

[nilyank]

19 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Also, and I don't know why, but I just have never warmed to Sophie.  

She has never really been around for the viewers to see her having any kind of relationship with the rest of the Pearsons. Sophie left Kevin when Beth and Randall were still in college and she barely interacted with them in the next few decades before she reconnected with Kevin at Kate’s wedding.

That scene would have worked with Beth and Toby (if he was there).

I don’t think they ever added Phillip to the group text for Pearson spouses. I don’t think he would understand their humor.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I didn’t like Beth going on about the Pearson process but Phillips an even bigger asshole. They threw him into the mix too late and I believe it was all for the sake of a shocking season finale last year. 

 

They just had to shove it down our throats that Kate turned out damn near perfect.  It was totally unbelievable.

For those who dislike Philip, the actor had a role in A Million Little Things last season and was fine.  I think it’s just the Philip character that’s an issue.  

[GeorgiaRai]

9 hours ago, Racj82 said:

...if Phillip is hated for his react, one already doesn't like him, so any reaction he had would of been bad somehow.

Yes, this is absolutely true for me! Nothing he does will ever be right because his very existence is so, so wrong! 

Otherwise, I loved this episode.  And I've loved this show - but the resurrection of Laurel and the marrying of Phillip were definite low points for me (with Phillip's storyline being the absolute worst because it's recurring; at least Dead Laurel disappeared after the ghost-swim.)  

[TV Diva Queen]

Funny how they allowed Kate to make her call on the care of Rebecca, they come up with a suggestion and Kate is the one on the other side of the country not able to assist as much as the other two. 

[Cristofle]

Milo really won this episode by getting paid to "sleep" for like 90% of his scenes, lol.

I thought this was a great and heartbreaking episode, showing how Rebecca raised each of the kids (she either expected or was grateful for too much from Randall, making him feel like he had the responsibility and probably the authority of the trio; she was very hard on Kevin; and she was very soft with Kate) and how that has impacted them and their relationships with each other all their lives. 

For whatever reason, it was the scene when Rebecca was reading Goodnight Moon to Baby Randall juxtaposed with him reading to her that got me to tears. I think because my mom read that book to me so often. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it was for Randall to look up at his mother and just see nothing there, no response in her eyes. 

Beth is the best, as ever. 

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

I mean who says capiche?  

Clearly not Phillip because he’s not allowed.

[BetyBee]

I find Randall to be insufferable, but at least he finally gave in regarding Rebecca and the family meeting. Everyone else is changing their lives to accommodate Rebecca's illness, but now he doesn't have to! That said, they do all love Rebecca and they all want what's best for her. That is a good thing! It was hard to see her confusion at Miguel being gone. I didn't tear up until they all agreed and held hands. Siblings go through a lot together. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Funny how they allowed Kate to make her call on the care of Rebecca, they come up with a suggestion and Kate is the one on the other side of the country not able to assist as much as the other two. 

As much as Randall wants to claim he's "allowing" Kate to make the decision, Kate is the one who Rebecca chose to be her decision maker after Miguel.  It was always going to be Kate's decision.  Deep down Randall knew this, but that was never going to stop him from persuading Kate to acquiesce to his plan.  Randall knew his only other option was taking Kate to court to get him appointed as Rebecca's POA in all areas, and that would have been a step too far for even Randall.  Also, there is no way Beth would have supported him.

Kate being on the west coast is keeping with Rebecca's wishes.  She was very adamant that she did not want any of her children to sacrifice their lives to take care of her.  And while the ultimate solution is a bit too neat, it allowed for all of the kids to abide by Rebecca's wishes and take care of her.  

[OlderThanDirt]

I just watched the opening scene again in a video clip from the Tonight show. When Rebecca wakes up calling for Miguel, the nurse comes in and calls her "Mrs. Pearson".  That surprised me because I'm close to the age of her character and most of my friends who have remarried have changed their names unless they have small children or professional careers using their name from a previous marriage. 

I think Rebecca didn't want to pressure Kate about her weight because of her own mother's obsessive behavior. 

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

I mean who says capiche?  

Italians. Often. Surprised Beth ever heard the word or knew it's meaning.

For those hating "St. Jack". Once again he is shown in not such a saintly light. Sleeping through helping out with the middle of the night wake up calls from the screaming kids. I still just don't get why so many think Jack was ever portrayed as a saint. Clearly he has been seen with warts and all. Is it because Rebecca and the kids adored him? Was that so wrong? 

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

That's his blind wife, thankyouverymuch.

His blind wife who had just left him because they couldn't get pregnant! Its tragic backstory bingo!

For all the justified snark that we throw at this show and its melodrama, they really know how to close out an episode. Damn that wistful 70s soundtrack, it gets me every single time. As I've said before, when this show is bad, its insufferable, and when its good, its great. And you often get both within the same episode. Seeing Rebecca taking care of the kids throughout the years then them taking care of her really got me.

Philip is clearly new to the Pearson plus one group chat. I can see how Beth and Madison snarking about their spouses can seem callous under the circumstances, but that's just how you cope with being around the Pearsons, especially in rough situations. They can be a whole lot even in the best of times, sometimes you just need some release. 

The flashback were really nice and illustrated a lot of how the Pearson kids were raised. Kate gets nervous dealing with Kate's angst, she's often frustrated with Kevin, Randall is her golden child, but despite those issues you can tell how much she loves her kids and has done everything she could for them. 

Show of hands, who totally saw Randall trying to take over taking care of Rebecca coming? Oh look, its literally everyone. Randall both has a very high opinion of himself and a very low opinion of his siblings, in Randall's world, he's always the heroic voice of reason trying to deal with his loser siblings, he's ridiculously arrogant and has only gotten worse over the course of the show. At least the show has become more aware of that, I like what Beth said about how he refuses to see that his siblings have grown as people, its absolutely true, he still sees them as screw up teens opposed to his diligent and hard working good son. This is exactly why Rebecca gave her care to Kate, she knew that Randall and Kevin would turn this into a pissing contest, Randall would try to take over in the most condescending way possible, Kevin would get pissed off at Randall and bring up old family drama sarcastically, she knows her kids, she knew exactly what would happen in this situation, very glad that Kate stood up for herself. 

Kate now has a masters and is creating the entire music curriculum for California? Is she also a magical fairy princess who commutes to the moon? Its not that I don't buy that she has a masters or is successful, tons of people change careers and get degrees later in life, but I can only assume that they meant she was on a committee to create the schools curriculum, not that she is doing it all on her own, that's not how curriculums work. Its like Randal and his offscreen political career, its not that I don't buy them getting these wins, it just feels like they are trying to quickly give everyone their happy endings are quickly as possible in a rush to get to the end.

Edited May 11, 2022 by tennisgurl

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Toby looked like he put a little weight back on.

Also, still no Kate in the flash forward?  Maybe she is off earning her second PhD.

 

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

I laughed so hard at that. Since let's say she started working on her Bachelors in 2023 after she divorced Toby. She had, minimum, 3 semesters (assuming she did winter and summer classes, too) to get a bachelors & teacher certification - since there's no skipping student teaching, and you typically cannot be paid to do student teaching (but since she's a Pearson, she's magic and just be able to get paid without doing her actual job). So that'd be roughly Fall 2025 that she would graduate. Let's say the wedding is sometime 2026. So she'd be working as a teacher then and let's say she can magically apply for a Curriculum PhD right away (even though you usually have to be teaching for 2-5 years to get into a lot of education masters or PhD programs) and gets into the program Fall 2026. Let's say she finishes her PhD in 2 years because Kate wrote her dissertation on The Amazingness Of A Pearson Speech and How It Improves Student Effectiveness In The Learning Environment. It's just a blank piece of paper, but she gives the Pearson Speech to end all Pearson Speeches. It's about how her son is blind and her mother has dementia. Probably also a bit about how her neighbor had a stroke, too. So, that's Spring 2028 that she graduates. Rebecca dies ~2032.

The Family Meeting was probably 2030? There is literally no way she is designing an ARTS curriculum for the state by then. If they had said for the school, sure, it's a private school - they do all kinds of hinky stuff. If they had said she was working on it - yeah, she could be part of the committee or helping out with it. Oh right, she didn't do a PhD, she did a masters... so yeah a person with a masters would never be developing a curriculum for the entire state.

Best case scenario, Kate is going for a PhD and is working with a professor who is actually designing the curriculum.

So, are the next two episodes just gonna be watching Rebecca die, or are we gonna get a whole bunch of Rebecca flashbacks? I think they might get a bit more... discordant and less connected - especially if the flashbacks are from Rebecca's POV. That would be an interesting way to handle it, IMO.

 

4 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Kate's new "baller" persona reminds me of Christina on Parenthood starting a new school despite her only credentials being having a son with autism.

I really liked the scene with Beth explaining to Randall that he's seeing former versions of Kevin and Kate rather than who they are in the present. Randall has an enormous savior complex.

From the original deathbed flash-forward, it was clear Rebecca had stayed at the house and that Kevin lived there. So, no big surprise that they ended up with that plan. But interesting how they arrived at it. 

I do think there's probably a reason Kate and her crew are the last to arrive (even Toby beat them there). I just don't know what it is.

I read an interview with the showrunners saying we'd see more of the ugly side of Rebecca's Alzheimers. So those who like a heavy dose of realism in their entertainment may be getting their wish.

 

 

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

When that was said, my first thought was, "I wonder how big a campaign contribution Kevin had to make to buy that job for her?"  Because that is way more likely than that sour Kate, who didn't even have a bachelor's degree in education just a few years earlier, now, not only has a Master's, but is considered qualified to actually develop an entire educational program for California students.  I try to imagine her sitting in a committee meeting, as all these things are done by committee and pouting and whining and complaining when the other members don't do things her way.  I guess they're right when they say public education is failing these days.  I will concede it is possible that Randall called in a favor with one of his senator friends to get her the job; he got a California rep's lazy brother in law hooked up with some political lackey job back in PA in exchange for a gig for his unqualified sister in CA.

Also, Kate had far more romantic chemistry with Toby in their 2 minute phone call than she has had in all of the scenes she's had with Philip put together over 2 seasons.  Explain to me again why their divorce was inevitable while Philip is her soulmate.

I actually feel a little cheated.

I would have liked to see Kate's journey from a do-nothing type of person to a "Baller".

Instead, the whole show has been about the many men who "love" her, starting with Jack. It is as if her whole value is based on who she is dating or married to, at the moment.

It would have been really inspirational.

 

[Mrs Shibbles]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

 

 

 

I actually feel a little cheated.

I would have liked to see Kate's journey from a do-nothing type of person to a "Baller".

Instead, the whole show has been about the many men who "love" her, starting with Jack. It is as if her whole value is based on who she is dating or married to, at the moment.

It would have been really inspirational.

 

absolutely

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

That's his blind wife, thankyouverymuch.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the crooked nose!

 

17 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Italians. Often. Surprised Beth ever heard the word or knew it's meaning.

I don't think I was around Italians growing up, but somehow I learned that word. Maybe it was from a movie or TV show. In fact, I'm sure it was. So it's no surprise to me that Beth, or anyone, would know it.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I actually feel a little cheated.

I would have liked to see Kate's journey from a do-nothing type of person to a "Baller".

Instead, the whole show has been about the many men who "love" her, starting with Jack. It is as if her whole value is based on who she is dating or married to, at the moment.

It would have been really inspirational.

 

In the rush to end the series, we have been told things about the characters instead of getting to see them happen.  Kate working on getting her masters, Randall going farther in politics, and Kevin's new business all make sense based on what we have previously seen, but it would have been nice for the show to devote some time to these developments.  

[RedDelicious]

Every time Philip speaks, I hear “the peanut butter box is here, the peanut butter box is here.” 

😊

[Rammchick]

2 hours ago, Janie430 said:

Also, over the course of the series, we saw Kevin and Kate crack up and hit rock bottom, and see how all their coping mechanisms hurt them.  I had always felt that season 5 would have had Randall hitting rock bottom, except COVID, and George Floyd.  So I feel that they missed an opportunity.  

Randall did hit rock bottom, when he had the panic attack and Kevin ran to his rescue.  It's what motivated Randall to quit his job and eventually go into politics.  

2 hours ago, Janie430 said:

Kevin made choices based on family and cracked up because of his addiction, and he gave up being a "serious" actor - i.e. he accepted being a rich sitcom actor, but not getting serious roles or being seen as a player.  Kate made choices based on her addiction, and her issues, and in order to grow as a person and be happy, she had to walk away from her first marriage.  And Randall - the overachieving obessive with anxiety issues who does crazy things like buying a building on impulse that should crack him up somewhere - - - becoems a Senator.

Randall's need to be everyone's savior is also a type of addiction.  If you read any of the literature on Savior Complex, it's Randall to a "t" -- a person who feels good about themselves only when helping others.  That's why that behavior becomes toxic, because they get so much validation from it that they eventually seek out these relationships, to their own detriment.  

[After7Only]

2 hours ago, Janie430 said:

Also, over the course of the series, we saw Kevin and Kate crack up and hit rock bottom, and see how all their coping mechanisms hurt them.  I had always felt that season 5 would have had Randall hitting rock bottom, except COVID, and George Floyd.  So I feel that they missed an opportunity.  The series essentially ends with Kate and Kevin coming to terms with their own flaws and trying to change them and their life, and Randall's come through all his with his life approach and sense of self completely intact.

 

Early seasons had Randall having panic attacks, and various anxiety issues.  We saw plenty of his crack ups.   Seasons 4-5 finally had Randall seeking counseling to deal with his various issues and anxiety.  Randall still has a bit of a savior complex, but through therapy he does understand the why and has made growth.   Not being in control of everything and everyone no longer results in panic attacks, complete body shutdown, and hurtful words towards his siblings.   He just like Kate and Kevin still have the same insecurities/issues from their youth, but all 3 have matured and are making better choices.   

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

For those hating "St. Jack". Once again he is shown in not such a saintly light. Sleeping through helping out with the middle of the night wake up calls from the screaming kids. I still just don't get why so many think Jack was ever portrayed as a saint. Clearly he has been seen with warts and all. Is it because Rebecca and the kids adored him? Was that so wrong? 

I have never been on board with the (derisive) St. Jack take. And while I do believe that Rebecca took on the heavier load with the day-to-day parenting, I have to say, she didn't try very hard to wake Jack up in the scenes we were shown last night. A couple of quietly repeated calls of his name? If you want me to way up, it takes a little more than that. If she really didn't want to get up for the 7th time that night, a good poke in the ribs would've done the trick. I don't see Jack rolling back over if he knew she really needed him.

[Rammchick]

9 minutes ago, After7Only said:

Early seasons had Randall having panic attacks, and various anxiety issues.  We saw plenty of his crack ups.   Seasons 4-5 finally had Randall seeking counseling to deal with his various issues and anxiety.  Randall still has a bit of a savior complex, but through therapy he does understand the why and has made growth.   Not being in control of everything and everyone no longer results in panic attacks, complete body shutdown, and hurtful words towards his siblings.   He just like Kate and Kevin still have the same insecurities/issues from their youth, but all 3 have matured and are making better choices.   

Heh -- you and I posted the same thing at almost the same moment!

[MBayGal]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

True or something similar. Was she alone? I was confused. Where were the other kids at night or Jack?  Did I miss a scene where he took the boys somewhere as babies? She said "I am alone".

she said something to the effect he was on a "site visit" in New Jersey when she was talking to baby kate

 

"Kate and her Pearsonness. Maybe she will lead California's Department of Education by the final episode. I would say governor, but it seems she is going to be education's savior."

She will be Sec'y of Education in President Randall's administration!

Edited May 11, 2022 by MBayGal

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm curious to see if they will stick with the Toby in the original flash forward who didn't think he would be welcome at vigil for Rebecca.

Toby was uncertain if he wanted to follow through and come, not if he'd be welcome. Randall then said, "She wants you there, Tobe." Not because Toby doubted that, but to remind him/pressure him. 

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I still want that house.

Talk to Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof. It's theirs.

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Talk to Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof.  It's theirs.

That's cool. This is mentioned in AH's "personal life" section on wikipedia, and I clicked the source link, which says that TIU production not only cleaned up after themselves but fixed some damage that was there previously (stuff like handprints on the wall from her kids that they took care of while touching up paint, and damaged finish on the door caused by tape from holiday decorations).

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I mean who says capiche?  

My dad used to say it all the time.  He was Irish, not Italian. Of course, he was born in 1912.....  I haven't heard anyone say that word in years. I think I will start saying it regularly now!

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by MBayGal

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

absolutely

 

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

In the rush to end the series, we have been told things about the characters instead of getting to see them happen.  Kate working on getting her masters, Randall going farther in politics, and Kevin's new business all make sense based on what we have previously seen, but it would have been nice for the show to devote some time to these developments.  

Yes.

Even a little montage at the beginning of an episode (this show is an expert on heartwarming montages) would have been appreciated.

We would have seen Kate go to class, take care of 2 small children, work at the school for the blind, deal with dating PMJ, and then deal with a new marriage. There would also be co-parenting with Toby.

It would make her ending feel much more earned.

[Pallas]

Kate's work in arts education, her mention of pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey this episode, that game's being schlepped by Beth to the new house, the chalk, Toby's being present because "she" wants him there, and Kate's imminent arrival: it's Kate who has something big planned for Rebecca's final hours. Maybe not "big" as an event, but big as in, a meaningful gesture. The kind Rebecca would appreciate, most of all. 

[MBayGal]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

We would have seen Kate go to class, take care of 2 small children, work at the school for the blind, deal with dating PMJ, and then deal with a new marriage. There would also be co-parenting with Toby.

It would make her ending feel much more earned.

But then they might not have had time for Randall to swim naked with his ghost mom!  I have a theory that the writers broke up kate and toby thinking it would make the story more relatable. In lots of marriages that look good to outsiders , one partner is unhappy and unfulfilled. The show has dealt with many other issues families face, from addiction to widowhood to Alzheimers, so they wanted to throw in a midlife divorce and fulfilling remarriage.  K&P does not seem to have been so fulfilling for much of the audience however. 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

But then they might not have had time for Randall to swim naked with his ghost mom!  I have a theory that the writers broke up kate and toby thinking it would make the story more relatable. In lots of marriages that look good to outsiders , one partner is unhappy and unfulfilled. The show has dealt with many other issues families face, from addiction to widowhood to Alzheimers, so they wanted to throw in a midlife divorce and fulfilling remarriage.  K&P does not seem to have been so fulfilling for much of the audience however. 

I wish the writers would have shown us the fulfilling remarriage.  I can buy the relationship in theory, but wanted to see more.  I wanted to see the She's All That moment Kate talked about with Toby.  Give me Philip catching a glimpse of Kate and sincerely telling Kate she is beautiful.  

Not to mention, the show reiterated in this episode Kate is a late bloomer.  It's great that Kate finally blossomed in her 40s, but I want to see it, not be told.

[qtpye]

19 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

But then they might not have had time for Randall to swim naked with his ghost mom!  I have a theory that the writers broke up kate and toby thinking it would make the story more relatable. In lots of marriages that look good to outsiders , one partner is unhappy and unfulfilled. The show has dealt with many other issues families face, from addiction to widowhood to Alzheimers, so they wanted to throw in a midlife divorce and fulfilling remarriage.  K&P does not seem to have been so fulfilling for much of the audience however. 

Ironically, it was anything but realistic.

Kate has a man happily waiting for her the minute the ink is dry on the divorce papers.

She suffers no financial or personal setbacks from the divorce despite having very little education or job skills.

We find out later that now she has become one of the most respected educators in her state.

She gets a fairy tale happy ending but it is just with another guy that we have absolutely no connections to at all.

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wish the writers would have shown us the fulfilling remarriage.  I can buy the relationship in theory, but wanted to see more.  I wanted to see the She's All That moment Kate talked about with Toby.  Give me Philip catching a glimpse of Kate and sincerely telling Kate she is beautiful.  

Not to mention, the show reiterated in this episode Kate is a late bloomer.  It's great that Kate finally blossomed in her 40s, but I want to see it, not be told.

Exactly, they really short-changed Kate as far as storylines.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by qtpye

[Tango64]

My favorite line from Beth was not from the snarky stuff with Sophie. (Though I liked that scene and also get how Philip wouldn't understand.)

It was when she was trying to sneak away with the Chinese food and Randall saw her. He asked if they could talk. 

The look on Beth's face and her delivery of "Sure, we can talk...." was so good. That woman has spoken those words many times in that marriage.

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

My favorite line from Beth was not from the snarky stuff with Sophie. (Though I liked that scene and also get how Philip wouldn't understand.)

It was when she was trying to sneak away with the Chinese food and Randall saw her. He asked if they could talk. 

The look on Beth's face and her delivery of "Sure, we can talk...." was so good. That woman has spoken those words many times in that marriage.

Just like Jack, Randall loves to make big promises (of course only HE can take care of their mother properly)

And just like Rebecca, it's often on Beth to clean up the messes.

The woman has earned her snark and it was also one of my favorite scenes.

When you have a needy partner, your needs always get pushed to the side.

[3 is enough]

46 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

But then they might not have had time for Randall to swim naked with his ghost mom!  I have a theory that the writers broke up kate and toby thinking it would make the story more relatable. In lots of marriages that look good to outsiders , one partner is unhappy and unfulfilled. The show has dealt with many other issues families face, from addiction to widowhood to Alzheimers, so they wanted to throw in a midlife divorce and fulfilling remarriage.  K&P does not seem to have been so fulfilling for much of the audience however. 

Well, there are plenty of families where no one gets divorced.  I have 4 brothers. We are all married and there have been no divorces.  Plus Kevin was divorced, so that issue was already touched upon. I just feel the Kate/Toby breakup and her subsequent remarriage to Phillip storyline was clumsy, rushed, and not really necessary.

Edited May 11, 2022 by 3 is enough