S06.E11: Saturday in the Park

[Crs97]

35 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

The needs assessment consultant also came by within a few days of them bringing home Jack from the hospital, and all of those scary, exciting emotions even with a full-term, no complications or special needs baby, plus a still post-partum Kate. I care far more about her actions since then,

But my point is that her words then completely shut down any discussion.  If the woman had been able to continue, there would have been dialogue.  Toby could ask questions.  Woman who has seen and done this many times would have picked up on his struggles and made suggestions.  Instead Kate shut her down with her inspirational speech that forces Toby to be silent because you can’t respond to “I’m gonna be a super mom” speech with “so when do we bolt down the furniture and I am terrified at the road ahead of us.”  I would have cut Kate some slack, but she is now determined to judge and punish Toby for not processing as quickly as she did.
 

Now it is realistic to see their marriage ending, as the divorce rate for parents of children with special needs is pretty high.  I’m grateful MrCRS and I have always been on the same page with our kiddos and feel safe communicating all our emotions.

[marceline]

For people asking why Jack remembers the smell of the grill, childhood smell memory is pretty powerful.

The smell of Juicy Fruit gum always makes me remember my childhood. The same with the smell of the Jergens lotion my mom used to slather me with after getting out of the bath. Jack doesn't have visual memories so I'm guessing the memories from his other senses can be pretty powerful. Just like his love of splashing in the puddles probably includes the squishy sound of his adorable red boots in the mud.

Edited April 6, 2022 by marceline

[CountryGirl]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

We discover that the real villain all along wasn't the meat smoker, it was the front door all along. I have tried to be fair to both Kate and Toby, but as many mistakes as Toby has made, I was totally Team Toby this time. Kate has no concept of taking responsibility, blaming Toby for the plumbing leaking even though she could have called a plumber at any time, being the person who lives there, and blamed Toby for Jack getting out, even though she was the one who left the door unlocked and taught him to open it up in the first place. I have no idea how Kate could possibly blame Toby for this, and I think this has some pretty bad implications for Kate in the future. Did Kate let Jack think that Toby was at fault for him getting hurt for his whole life? Was that never cleared up? I can see why Jack would only have a sort of blurred memory of that day, being both blind and a little kid, so he might just associate the smells of the smoker with what ended his parents marriage, which is what I hope it is. He knows that it wasn't really his dads fault its just what he think, or else Kate let him think his dad and his evil meat machine hurt him for his whole life.

I know I'm supposed to see the flashbacks and the end as "Kate's family always has her back" but all I saw was "Kate's family has coddled her to the point where she cant take responsibility for her actions and blames other people for everything that goes wrong. 

I am so glad that Rebecca saved baby Jack, especially after she had felt so useless before. Mandy is just nailing every second of this season, both as older cool Rebecca and young drunk Rebecca. And baby Jack is ridiculously adorable. 

To the bolded:

WRT the plumbing, how in the world was Kate supposed to know that the plumber needed called in the first place? There wasn't a leak...until there was, that Saturday. Toby insisted on fixing the original leak himself, enlisting his father to help him. His father warned him that he needed to have an actual plumber come to the house to check everything, including other issues. Toby told Kate he fixed the issue and she came home to a house with a kitchen ceiling that looked brand-new. He did not tell her to call a plumber after that, that it was a temporary fix, etc., and that there could be more issues. I guess Kate should have ESP or Xray vision to know there was still a problem despite the physical appearance of her kitchen ceiling, no other leaks/issues until that day, or not trusted that Toby was telling the truth or didn't know what he was talking about when he said it was fixed. There have been zero mentions of the leak/plumbing issues between the episode with Toby's dad til now, so how, exactly, is it Kate's fault?

They are equally to blame for Jack getting out of the house IMO. Kate seeming to put all the blame on Toby was in the heat of emotions after surviving every parent's worst fears just as Toby bashing her job and her teaching Jack was while he was in an emotional state. They were both angry and yelling and one is no more culpable than the other for that. It is a natural tendency when scared to get angry and to irrationally lash out at the person standing in front of you if for no other reason than they are the only one there. They were both angry, yelling, and saying mean things that they probably would not have in calmer circumstances. And I think they should have been allowed to vent their spleens - it's high time they got it all out on the table so they can decide where they go from there. 

I think Jack associated the BGE with the demise of his parents is because of the smoker smell as there was a concerted effort/scene to show Jack being held by Toby near the smoker and Jack had his cute line about the food smelling like "apples and pants." Or was it "apples and pancakes?" Either way, adorable. I don't understand the leap to the assumption that Kate planted some BGE lies in his head when we haven't seen anything to suggest this. 

Yes and YES!!! to the points about Mandy/Rebecca and Baby Jack. 

8 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Actually he's her direct boss, as she is the teacher's aide under him.  This is going to be the fastest romance to marriage on TV, save for a Las Vegas drunk wedding as in real life (Britney, Kourtney Kartrashian) send-up.

Kate and her boss don't get married until five years from now. That's not exactly fast, although I know episode-wise, it will seem so.

[CountryGirl]

7 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

But my point is that her words then completely shut down any discussion.  If the woman had been able to continue, there would have been dialogue.  Toby could ask questions.  Woman who has seen and done this many times would have picked up on his struggles and made suggestions.  Instead Kate shut her down with her inspirational speech that forces Toby to be silent because you can’t respond to “I’m gonna be a super mom” speech with “so when do we bolt down the furniture and I am terrified at the road ahead of us.”  I would have cut Kate some slack, but she is now determined to judge and punish Toby for not processing as quickly as she did.
 

Now it is realistic to see their marriage ending, as the divorce rate for parents of children with special needs is pretty high.  I’m grateful MrCRS and I have always been on the same page with our kiddos and feel safe communicating all our emotions.

And my point was, that was one conversation. One incident in the almost-three years since Jack's birth and she is still being judged for it when the majority of her actions in the three years since have shown her to be a caring, conscientious mother where both of her children are concerned. I gave her grace then as I gave Toby grace when he took several months to come to terms with Jack's diagnosis and as I gave them both grace for last night's argument.

I do agree that a lot of marriages don't survive having a special needs child. I've seen similar results after the death of a child and I can only imagine how difficult those circumstances are.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, himela said:

Hold on. When Kate left the front door unlocked she was under the impression Jack was in his room with his room door locked. We have to take this also into consideration.

No we don't.  Only an idiot in LA leaves their door unlocked.  Yes, even in the day.  Even in a nice neighborhood.  As someone else said above, LA is hardcore.  Also, safety first.  Doors should always be locked to prevent little ones from opening the door and leaving.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don’t think she intentionally left the door unlocked. when she realized it was, she was shocked and upset. She wasn’t thinking “Jack is safe, I don’t have to lock the door.” She just forgot to lock it.

Or Jack had already figured out how to unlock the door and had done so earlier when he was wandering around or playing before or during the leaky roof incident.  😲

[CountryGirl]

4 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

No we don't.  Only an idiot in LA leaves their door unlocked.  Yes, even in the day.  Even in a nice neighborhood.  As someone else said above, LA is hardcore.  Also, safety first.  Doors should always be locked to prevent little ones from opening the door and leaving.

It wasn't unlocked because it was during the day or in a nice neighborhood. Everything we have seen shows the door is normally locked and Kate or Toby unlock it to leave the house. The door was unlocked in this case when Kate let the plumber in. A plumber who would presumably have to go in and out quite a bit. And she also thought Jack was safe in his room behind a latched baby gate. Should she still have locked the door? Of course, but it was chaos just as it was chaos when Toby thought he latched the baby gate but didn't.

I'm one of 6 and we all got out of the house at one point or another as toddlers. Because life happens and I'm not going to call someone an idiot for making a mistake, my mom included. 

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I thought the same thing.  Your 70 year old mother is moving a wet mattress and you are standing there hollering at your husband who is carrying your child?  It was probably realistic that Kate, at her current size, would be less help than a 70 year old, but the show seemingly glossed over that fact.

I'm close to 70, with no chronic or acute health issues (knock on wood), and I probably can lift more than Kate (or the actress). I hate when people treat me as frail. I completely understood Rebecca's frustration at not being allowed to help with anything. 

Also, I've known plenty of women who constantly bark at their husbands to take care of whatever is stressing them out at the moment. I don't know how they stay married, but they seem so entitled to me, to just be ordering their husbands around like servants, and then unhappy when they don't perform as they think they should. And expecting everyone to agree with them. It's really hard to watch.  

One example: I was explaining to a group of work friends that I had to add windshield washer fluid to the car before driving home (it was a slushy day). One woman snorted derisively and said she didn't even know where to put the fluid, and she had her husband for that. She always reminds him that he needs to "get on that" when it gets low.  👀🤔

That's why I think there is so much feedback against Kate. She seems unreasonable. And Toby is trying to figure out how he got the role of being the person making everything wrong. It's certainly why I have trouble sympathizing with her.  

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by cardigirl

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Season One Toby was brash and loved to stomp Kate's boundaries.  I still remember the episode where Kate wants to quietly watch the Steelers' game, but Toby would not take no for an answer.  He then proceeds to make it a whole thing with snacks and his friend, and he turned the game off because whatever he was saying was more important than the game she wanted to watch.  His behavior this season is the same behavior he has always exhibited.  

I thought he was a jerk from the start when he asked her out, she said no, and he kept pursuing her. In tv land that’s supposed to be romantic, but in real life it’s a red flag. I recently rewatched the pilot, and the first thing he does is pantomime shooting himself in the head because Madison was talking. That’s not an okay way to act in a support group, even if Madison was annoying.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

It wasn't unlocked because it was during the day or in a nice neighborhood. Everything we have seen shows the door is normally locked and Kate or Toby unlock it to leave the house. The door was unlocked in this case when Kate let the plumber in. A plumber who would presumably have to go in and out quite a bit. And she also thought Jack was safe in his room behind a latched baby gate. Should she still have locked the door? Of course, but it was chaos just as it was chaos when Toby thought he latched the baby gate but didn't.

I'm one of 6 and we all got out of the house at one point or another as toddlers. Because life happens and I'm not going to call someone an idiot for making a mistake, my mom included. 

Toddler are slippery little bastards with little sense of self-preservation.   They will get themselves into dangerous situations in seconds.  Sometimes there is nothing you can do to stop them from themselves.  Even the best parents will have one story about that one time their kid did XYZ.  

I believe I told this story here about my little brother.  He was around 2, and had to find out for himself that a grill is hot.  It only took a moment for him to slip past me and run towards the grill our mother had just turned off palms forward.   I ran after him trying to prevent disaster,  but I was too late.  

[Jax7917]

3 hours ago, Leeds said:

Am I the only one who can't stand Rebecca?  (At any age.)

I sometimes like her and sometimes don't. The way they dress older Rebecca is annoying to me. They mostly put her in clothes that 85 year olds wear and It's obvious it's just to age her more but it just comes across as trying too hard. I also don't like that they make her too nice. She walks on eggshells with everyone and I wish they'd give her a little personality. As people get older, they tend to give less of a crap about what they say and lose their filter. Rebecca always seems scared around her kids.

Younger Rebecca has a baby voice that seems put on as well. I think Mandy is a great actress and really does a great job in her very diverse roles that she has to play on the show, but I like to pick at little things as a viewer so here it is lol.

My unpopular opinion is that Jack and Rebecca have no chemistry. I don't see them together and as romantic as they try to make Jack, I never see sparks flying between them. I think she has more chemistry with Miguel.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Jax7917

[Aloeonatable]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I don't see a ret-con where Toby is concerned. He's been shown to be problematic at times in the past, particularly when it comes to keeping secrets. We've seen that over a number of seasons now, going back to Jack's birth. 

I find it very interesting the premise that every single negative aspect of Kate's character is spot-on writing but yet anything untoward where Toby is concerned is ret-con or crappy writing or character assassination. That he's some long-suffering martyr at the hands of the evil Kate. 

It's the same writers and again, there is very clear history that we have been shown where neither of them are saints. They are both people I've wanted to hug at times and also wanted to throttle at times. I went back and forth on those feelings several times on that in last night's episode alone.

Even with the argument that Kate, by unlocking the door, was way more at fault than Toby because she allowed Jack to leave the house. Again, Kate was under the impression per Toby that Jack was safe in his room. Therefore, playing devil's advocate (or Kate's - same difference for some LOL) it shouldn't have mattered if every door or window was wide open because if he's safely secured in his room and cannot get out of his room, he cannot get out of the house. If Toby, who was blindsided when he walked to Jack's room and realized he had, in fact, not secured the gate and Jack was not in the room, why should Kate not have been blindsided as well? 

I hold them equally responsible here and this said from someone who is mostly Team Nobody but the Kids here. 

 

 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

We discover that the real villain all along wasn't the meat smoker, it was the front door all along. I have tried to be fair to both Kate and Toby, but as many mistakes as Toby has made, I was totally Team Toby this time. Kate has no concept of taking responsibility, blaming Toby for the plumbing leaking even though she could have called a plumber at any time, being the person who lives there, and blamed Toby for Jack getting out, even though she was the one who left the door unlocked and taught him to open it up in the first place. I have no idea how Kate could possibly blame Toby for this, and I think this has some pretty bad implications for Kate in the future. Did Kate let Jack think that Toby was at fault for him getting hurt for his whole life? Was that never cleared up? I can see why Jack would only have a sort of blurred memory of that day, being both blind and a little kid, so he might just associate the smells of the smoker with what ended his parents marriage, which is what I hope it is. He knows that it wasn't really his dads fault its just what he think, or else Kate let him think his dad and his evil meat machine hurt him for his whole life.

I know I'm supposed to see the flashbacks and the end as "Kate's family always has her back" but all I saw was "Kate's family has coddled her to the point where she cant take responsibility for her actions and blames other people for everything that goes wrong. 

I am so glad that Rebecca saved baby Jack, especially after she had felt so useless before. Mandy is just nailing every second of this season, both as older cool Rebecca and young drunk Rebecca. And baby Jack is ridiculously adorable. 

I don't agree that we are "supposed to see that her family has her back." I think the show is showing us that she has been coddled, and dependent on her family. I really believe that we are seeing an honest depiction of the dissolution of a marriage. 

The Pearsons are far from perfect, very far. I love them because they aren't perfect. I love them because they make mistakes and yet still stick together as a family should. 

 

 

 

[himela]

The incident with Jack was a chain of events that STARTED with Toby leaving the gate open. I don't want to say he is at full fault here but he did make the first tragic mistake. A mistake he had also made a few hours earlier btw.

[TLP]

Kate's at home so it's her job to . . . .  What is this - the 50s? Toby has made it clear that HE WANTS TO FIX THE LEAK and that HE WANTS TO CALL THE PLUMBER. Oh my God. 

And the making fun of Kate's weight? Probably not as subtle as some posters think it is when they're joking abut Kate's body.  Which, again.  Really?

Good grief.

And she didn't acknowledge her part in Jack's leaving the house? She told Toby it was her fault for leaving the door unlocked. If she hadn't, he wouldn't have even known she had done that.

Whole lotta woman-hating going on here. There's plenty of responsibility on both sides in this and any marriage (unless, as someone above pointed out, there is abuse happening - not just physical abuse - ANY kind of abuse.) What is this compulsion to put down a character on a show because of her weight? And to return to the social mores of the fifties?

I'm shocked. 

No need to reply. I won't be back. I get enough woman bashing in the media in general. (And no. I'm not overweight. And also - I've been happily married for nearly 30 years - to a man who would not  dream of withholding from me that he was offered a job in the city where I live.  (We don't live in different parts of the state. That's just a for instance.)

GAK.

[nexxie]

Little Jack - such a sweet boy and good actor!

Could really relate to Rebecca being happy about her kids looking out for each other - it’s what you hope for, and count on as everyone grows older. The theme came through, though the brothers might’ve been hard on Toby.

Liked how they transitioned Kevin and Madison to a new place in their relationship - cute scene.

[CountryGirl]

8 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

 

I don't agree that we are "supposed to see that her family has her back." I think the show is showing us that she has been coddled, and dependent on her family. I really believe that we are seeing an honest depiction of the dissolution of a marriage. 

The Pearsons are far from perfect, very far. I love them because they aren't perfect. I love them because they make mistakes and yet still stick together as a family should. 

 

 

 

It really is one of the most realistic depictions I've seen. Where there isn't the obvious plots of cheating or abuse, but rather a marriage falling apart because the two partners discover they want different things out of life and that sometimes, love just isn't enough. 

I love the Pearsons for the same reasons. It reminds me of something my mom said once, "Parents die. Partners can, too, or leave. Kids grow up and have lives of their own. But the one gift you have from cradle to grave is your siblings."

[Ohiopirate02]

29 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I thought he was a jerk from the start when he asked her out, she said no, and he kept pursuing her. In tv land that’s supposed to be romantic, but in real life it’s a red flag. I recently rewatched the pilot, and the first thing he does is pantomime shooting himself in the head because Madison was talking. That’s not an okay way to act in a support group, even if Madison was annoying.

I do think Kate needs someone who is willing to call her out on her bullshit, and early seasons Toby did that.  She was stuck in a rut for years never moving forward.  Her wanting to watch the Steelers game with her dad's ashes was morbid (even if I understood.  That episode aired when the baseball team I grew up watching and going to games with my late father was in the World Series), but Toby took it too far.  He made it all about him.  It was unbalanced.  And their relationship remained unbalanced.

Philip being a jerk is not a dealbreaker for me as long as the show tempers it.  

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I remember an episode of House, where he had one of his interns listed on his phone as Cold Hearted Bitch.  Of course, that was House in a nutshell.

*Cutthroat Bitch" (Amber) 😁

[PRgal]

Is it just me or has CTV.ca not uploaded this episode online yet?  It's usually available the next day.  

 

ETA:  Looks like it's up.  Weird.

Edited April 6, 2022 by PRgal

[bichonblitz]

Nothing worse than a couple fighting and sniping at each other in front of family. Sooooo uncomfortable. These two are idiots.  

[CountryGirl]

I rewatched over lunch and one of my favorite moments of the entire series, right here, with Grandma Rebecca saving the day.

[marceline]

I've got to say that Mandy Moore continues to impress me. I genuinely have to keep reminding myself that Old Rebecca is played by a 37-year-old actress. One of the things she impressed me with most in this episode was her body language when she went running after Jack. She ran like a woman of a certain age. I was looking at her like "Careful! Don't break a hip!"

She really deserves an Emmy. I hope this is her year.

[hookedontv]

Just one important question:

Where the hell is Audio?

[CountryGirl]

Just now, hookedontv said:

Just one important question:

Where the hell is Audio?

At the park with Hailey and Annie. 

[mojoween]

This show makes me feel like a misery vampire.  It makes me uncomfortable, and I know something even worse is coming, and yet I can’t stop watching.

[hookedontv]

5 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

At the park with Hailey and Annie. 

I'm roaring with laughter over here! Thank you! 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

I started dating my husband at the end of May, engaged in July and married in December (of the same year.) We've been married over 50 years. It can work.

I said people do that in my post because people propose quickly. Also, no one said it wouldn't work. Just that it was quick because it was

[tennisgurl]

Really, it doesn't matter that much who messed up with the door/gate. Mistakes happen, kids wander off and do dangerous things because they don't know better, it was clearly an accident during a stressful day, if things were better with Kate and Toby, this would have not been this big of a fight. But, and not diminishing the fear that everyone had when Jack wandered off, this isn't what is going to cause Toby and Kate to split up. If they were a more functional couple, this would be a scary learning experience when they realize they have to be more careful with Jack and they would move on. However, their marriage is clearly going through a huge rough patch, if not actively dissolving, the two of them are at each others throats all of the time and are always looking for things to be mad about, they have tons of issues that they aren't discussing so much as fighting about, this is just the straw that breaks the camels back. Some breaking point was going to always push them over the edge, and this was it. If it wasn't Jack wandering off, it would have been something else that caused their breakup. 

Neither Kate or Toby have ever been great at communication, and its just gotten worse now that they live so far away. Toby has a tendency to bulldoze people with his own ideas, whether its him picking the house out for them without talking to Kate to when they first got together when he was in Manic Pixie Dream Guy mode and was always insisting on making everything this huge deal even when Kate wasn't into it. Kate is often the opposite, she's doesn't say when things upset her and instead just stews on it until she blows up or tries to push the blame for anything that happens on other people. Its just a mess.

I don't love that Madison's boyfriend already want to propose after only six months. Madison just got out of a serious relationship, has twins and a complicated relationship with her baby daddy, and has a history of bad relationships and low self esteem. I worry that she will say yes not because she wants this guy but because she's excited to be with a man who really choose her. When kids are involved I feel like parents should be careful when it comes to rushing relationships. Plus I just don't like this guy, he raises a lot of red flags for me.

[Spartan Girl]

For all the talk about how Toby supposedly stomped all over Kate’s boundaries since the beginning of their relationship, and has made everything all about him, I just have to ask:

Didn’t Randall do the exact same thing to Beth? Pursue her even though she initially didn’t want a relationship, take the wheel and made all the big choices like quitting his job, adopting Deja, running for council, moving to Philadelphia despite the strain it caused between them? Or have we all decided to forget the details of that storyline in season 3?

The difference, other than the obvious “because he’s a Pearson”, is that Beth showed agency in the end. She decided she could still do her dance studio in Philadelphia (if I remember correctly) so they could both accomplish their goals. Kate had taken no such initiative, she made up her mind about SF long ago.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Rammchick]

If Rebecca is 70 and she and Miguel are celebrating their 10th anniversary, then she was 60 when they got married -- have we known all along that she and Miguel were separated for that many years (something like 15-20?) and I'm just not remembering it?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Rammchick

[CountryGirl]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, it doesn't matter that much who messed up with the door/gate. Mistakes happen, kids wander off and do dangerous things because they don't know better, it was clearly an accident during a stressful day, if things were better with Kate and Toby, this would have not been this big of a fight. But, and not diminishing the fear that everyone had when Jack wandered off, this isn't what is going to cause Toby and Kate to split up. If they were a more functional couple, this would be a scary learning experience when they realize they have to be more careful with Jack and they would move on. However, their marriage is clearly going through a huge rough patch, if not actively dissolving, the two of them are at each others throats all of the time and are always looking for things to be mad about, they have tons of issues that they aren't discussing so much as fighting about, this is just the straw that breaks the camels back. Some breaking point was going to always push them over the edge, and this was it. If it wasn't Jack wandering off, it would have been something else that caused their breakup. 

Neither Kate or Toby have ever been great at communication, and its just gotten worse now that they live so far away. Toby has a tendency to bulldoze people with his own ideas, whether its him picking the house out for them without talking to Kate to when they first got together when he was in Manic Pixie Dream Guy mode and was always insisting on making everything this huge deal even when Kate wasn't into it. Kate is often the opposite, she's doesn't say when things upset her and instead just stews on it until she blows up or tries to push the blame for anything that happens on other people. Its just a mess.

I don't love that Madison's boyfriend already want to propose after only six months. Madison just got out of a serious relationship, has twins and a complicated relationship with her baby daddy, and has a history of bad relationships and low self esteem. I worry that she will say yes not because she wants this guy but because she's excited to be with a man who really choose her. When kids are involved I feel like parents should be careful when it comes to rushing relationships. Plus I just don't like this guy, he raises a lot of red flags for me.

This is really well-said, especially about Kate and Toby.

You made me think and question if Madison is really in love with Elijah or she's in love with him being head over heels for her, because she's never had that before. 

[CrystalBlue]

22 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

Just one important question:

Where the hell is Audio?

I think either Kate gave audio back to the pound and Toby hasn't noticed yet, or Neighbor Gregory is feeding Audio because Kate's too busy with Jack Jr and Hailey, and he's made next door his new home.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

For all the talk about how Toby supposedly stomped all over Kate’s boundaries since the beginning of their relationship, and has made everything all about him, I just have to ask:

Didn’t Randall do the exact same thing to Beth? Pursue her even though she initially didn’t want a relationship, take the wheel and made all the big choices like quitting his job, adopting Deja, running for council, moving to Philadelphia, despite the strain it caused between them? Or have we all decided to forget the details of that storyline in season 3?

The difference, other than the obvious “because he’s a Pearson”, is that Beth showed agency in the end. She decided she could still do her dance studio in Philadelphia (if I remember correctly) so they could both accomplish their goals. Kate had taken no such initiative, she made up her mind about SF long ago.

Randall did the same thing to Beth.  He learned it from Jack.  And we have collectively roasted both of them on these boards over it.  Beth's ability to find her own way in Randall's new plan was due to a combination of her and Randall.  Randall helped Beth open her dance school including removing the dead possum and defunking the facility.  Where I don't see Toby doing the same.  His plan is what he wants and Kate is supposed to get on board with it.  I really don't want to relitigate who's right and who's wrong in that fight.  They both have valid points and they both are being selfish.  Kate needs to find a place for her in Toby's new plan or separate if she cannot.  Now, Toby can help nudge Kate into seeing herself in SF.  As of now, I have not seen him try.

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

In the stroller that Toby was pushing.

Thanks! I think I was so focused on how much I hate that song that I completely missed that.

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

 [Beth] decided she could still do her dance studio in Philadelphia (if I remember correctly) so they could both accomplish their goals.

Correct. She was the one who went to Philly by herself to look at a space. I don’t think she told Randall she was going to do that; she told him after the fact. She was also the one who told Randall they should sell the house and move.

10 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

If Rebecca is 70 and she and Miguel are celebrating their 10th anniversary, then she was 60 when they got married -- have we known all along that she and Miguel were separated for that many years (something like 15-20?) and I'm just not remembering it?

Yes, but not that many years of separation. In the episode about the Big 3 being in their late 20s (I think it was set in 2008), Rebecca told Beth that her friends were encouraging her to join Facebook. Beth said she’d show her how to set it up, and they showed a message from Miguel as Rebecca was logged onto it. So they reconnected sometime that year and married three years later (I think it’s December 2021 on the show since they had Thanksgiving recently). I think they were separated from like 1999-2008 - we know he moved to Houston around 1999 because Randall was in college, Kate was at home & Kevin was in New York.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Empress1

[OlderThanDirt]

Wow! I waited to watch my recorded TIS this morning and here we are 5 pages in.

I know it would screw up the storyline but in real life it would have made sense for Rebecca to take little Jack to his room while the rest of them dealt with the bedroom leak.  Also I agree with the person here who asked why are there pipes in the ceiling of a one story house? 

And I guess everyone congratulating Rebecca about making the connection about the boots and the park happened off stage. But they just let her run off by herself?  Kate couldn't keep up with her but Miguel certainly could. Again, story purposes.

Were we supposed to think Elijah was doing drugs in Madison's bedroom? Kevin going in there looking for him was weird anyway.

I'll just sit back and let the rest of the season unspool, but reading the comments here makes me feel like I'm watching with friends.  (Of course some friends won't watch movies and shows with me...)

[Cosmocrush]

 I cracked up when Jack called after the fleeing babysitter, "Please don't tell your friends."   Teenage babysitters (at least then) had networks and word got around which families were good to work for and which were problematic, lol. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Cosmocrush

[Rootbeer]

32 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I think either Kate gave audio back to the pound and Toby hasn't noticed yet, or Neighbor Gregory is feeding Audio because Kate's too busy with Jack Jr and Hailey, and he's made next door his new home.

If I were Audio, I'd be at Gregory's back door begging him to save me from the crazy people,  that's for sure.

Quote

Randall helped Beth open her dance school including removing the dead possum and defunking the facility.  Where I don't see Toby doing the same

Randall did that long after Beth found the space herself and told Randall they should move to Philadelphia.  Kate has never given Tobey the chance to help her find her way in SF.  We've not heard that she is checking out the various schools for special needs kids or looking for some sort of music education gig for kids.  How can Tobey help her when she has made it clear that she isn't moving to SF, no matter what?  She has never considered it as a possibility because, for her, it isn't.  Tobey cannot change that.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Cosmocrush said:

 I cracked up when Jack called after the fleeing babysitter, "Please don't tell your friends."   Teenage babysitters (at least then) had networks and word got around which families were good to work for and which were problematic, lol. 

I also laughed, but she was a crappy babysitter.  I used to babysit and there were some families where after one night with them I was always "busy."  It would never occur to me to speak to the kids the way she did though.  I may have wanted the kids to go to sleep so I could enjoy my time sitting around getting paid to watch TV, but I never let it show.  You can't force kids to fall asleep.  Just leave them be if they are quiet.  Joanie could have gone downstairs, drank her pop and called her friends.  The only reasons why she would want the kids to actually be asleep is if she planned on raiding the liquor cabinet or sneaking her boyfriend in or sneaking outside to smoke.  And look, anyone who has babysat for a couple of years knows the kids are always going to give you a hard time in some way the first time they have ever had a babysitter.  

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I appreciated the moment of Rebecca confiding to Kevin that she couldn't remember enough details to fill out the medical forms juxtaposed with her rescue of Jack. The irony of that, but so realistic to the disease. 

I’m sure this is what the writers intended. But after such a chaotic and traumatic day, even a mentally sharp person would probably be rattled enough to forget some details. What struck me, though, was that it didn’t seem to occur to her to use her phone as a reference for items like the name and number of Jack’s pediatrician, which she should have had stored in her contacts since she and Miguel babysit. Even on a perfectly calm and normal day, if I have to fill out a medical form I need to look up my doctor’s phone number, pharmacy’s phone number, etc., and pull out my insurance card for the insurance details. (Rebecca probably wouldn’t have a copy of Kate and Toby’s insurance card, but should have stored a picture of it on her phone in case of emergency.)

[CdrJanny]

59 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

If Rebecca is 70 and she and Miguel are celebrating their 10th anniversary, then she was 60 when they got married -- have we known all along that she and Miguel were separated for that many years (something like 15-20?) and I'm just not remembering it?

We know they were separated at least 11 years after Jack's death, because Beth showed Rebecca how to connect on Facebook when Tess was born on 2008.

[3 is enough]

Just have to say, there are only 7 episodes left, and and still nothing about Rebecca and Miguel's story. 

Judging from the previews next week's episode does not look promising on that front.

If this is not addressed I am going to be seriously pissed off.

[mojoween]

25 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

What struck me, though, was that it didn’t seem to occur to her to use her phone as a reference for items like the name and number of Jack’s pediatrician, which she should have had stored in her contacts since she and Miguel babysit.

Rebecca ran out of the house without anything.  I am guessing one of the people at the park called 911 and Rebecca rode in the ambulance to the hospital where they then called Jack’s parents (Rebecca must have been able to produce that phone number or maybe all of Jack’s clothes are stitched with his contact information).  She probably didn’t get her phone until Miguel took her back to Kate’s.

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, Leeds said:

Am I the only one who can't stand Rebecca?  (At any age.)

NOPE!!! Something about Mandy Moore annoys me for some reason I can’t quite put my finger on, and the way Rebecca is written sure doesn’t help.

[Sheggy50G]

8 hours ago, Blackie said:

 

Yes it is stressful to have young kids and live apart and couples start to bicker about everything, that is a given.

My mother had four children, under the age of 2, and my father traveled and was gone from Monday morning until Friday afternoon. She didn't resent my dad for being gone and making a living.

Kate is an absolute hag. And Kevin needed to take several seats during that fight (and Kevin is my favorite Pearson). Kate spent the entire episode doing nothing more than finding fault in EVERYTHING Toby did. She is just too much.

[debbie311]

17 hours ago, Empress1 said:

When Kate was nagging all "My 70-year-old mother is moving the mattress!" I thought, okay, but like, you can tell her not to do that and just wait a damn minute for Toby to show up. "Mom, hold on, don't do that. Toby will be here in a minute." Was Kate doing anything to move the mattress?

 

Agree.  And guess what, 70 is not 90.  Rebecca looks pretty fit and it wasn't like she was going to move the mattress by herself. Kate couldn't help?

Let's face it, Kate is done with Toby at this point and nothing he can say or do will be good enough for her. Like the leak problem. He did a patch job, so to speak, when they couldn't afford a plumber.  He said something to the effect that he was going to take care of it... Once he had a job, they could have discussed getting someone in to do the work. There is no excuse for Kate not handling that from her end in LA.  Sheesh - there was a water stain on the ceiling, you would think that would be a constant reminder to her, whereas Toby is in SF with a new job.  Guess I am on Team Toby here.

[CarpeFelis]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

How was Toby supposed to 'safely secure' the kid in his room when his mother had taught the kid how to open doors using the knob?  If Jack could open the front door, he could open the bedroom door, too.

That’s what the gate was for!

[CountryGirl]

25 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Just have to say, there are only 7 episodes left, and and still nothing about Rebecca and Miguel's story. 

Judging from the previews next week's episode does not look promising on that front.

If this is not addressed I am going to be seriously pissed off.

Spoiler

I read somewhere, Reddit perhaps, where episode 15 is going to be focused on Miguel.

 

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, debbie311 said:

Rebecca looks pretty fit and it wasn't like she was going to move the mattress by herself.

True.  Rebecca must have really raced to get to that park because she seemed to get there a moment or two after his fall.  I really liked Rebecca during the modern day part of the episode.  She seems to have the patience and understanding Kate lacks.  Some of that probably comes from having already raised three kids and general life experience, but some of that I think is just Rebecca. 

[peeayebee]

 

17 hours ago, Empress1 said:

 I agreed with him when he said "who teaches a sighted toddler to unlock a door?" because exactly what happened could happen. 

I'm surprised I didn't remember this when I watched the ep, but when my special-needs son was about 7, he got out the front door, which had been locked and chain-locked. And I think he had climbed up on the couch arm next to the door to reach the chain. 

 

17 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I'm of the opinion that neither Kate nor Toby really messed up with regards to Jack. Those were both honest mistakes than anybody could make when they are frazzled. It was just an unfortunate incident that ended up with Jack hurt, obviously, but really could happen to any parent any time. It's the fact that Kate and Toby hold so much resentment for each other that it blew up into them blaming each other and another big fight between them.

Yes, they were both frazzled, and they were both into pushing each others' buttons. I mean, when Toby walked in on Kate and Kevin laughing, he assumed they were laughing about him. Kate could have easily said right then, not later, that they were laughing about the Rebecca love doll. But she wasn't of the mind to respond civilly to Toby, and he was primed to be ridiculed.

I admit I've been more on Toby's side these past several eps, but he did himself no favors in this one. And honestly I completely forgot about when he "fixed" the leaky pipe in the ceiling. Also, at first I thought it was weird for Toby to say that they couldn't afford to call a plumber. He's making good money right now. So I think there were two explanations: 1) he was making a weird point about how things would be if he were to quit his current job, and mainly 2) he felt some guilt about being away from home so much and wanted to show he could take care of things.

 

12 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I also wondered why little Jack thought the meat in the Big Green Egg smelled like apples and pants! Apples I get, but pants?! Geez, how many times do the Pearsons wear their pants before washing them?

Oh man, thanks for making me LOL.

Someone here suggested it may have been an ad-lib from the little actor, which makes sense. He also may have been told what to say but misspoke. 

 

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

This was so hard to watch, even though we knew Jack would be fine.

OMGosh, yes. I was trying to imagine how I'd be feeling if we hadn't seen the FFs. 

 

5 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I had a feeling the Big Green Egg would be a Big Red Herring  

Good word play! Yes, I thought maybe Jack's memory was flawed, as many children's memories are (and adults, as well). Actually, I rewatched the FF scene from the beginning of E3 when we first see Jack with the Big Green Egg. He says to his girlfriend(?), "Every once in a while the smell hits me and takes me right back to that day." Then we see him remembering and hear Toby saying, "Don't get too close, buddy," then Jack crying, then Kate calling out "Jack!" We're led to infer that there was an accident with the BBQ when he was a child, but does Jack actually think there was? He doesn't say anything to contradict the facts that we learned from the latest ep. Is there another FF where he says more about it?

I'm going to echo everyone's reaction to little Jack. Absolutely adorable. All his little conversations and reactions were so perfect. And I LOVE hearing little children laugh like he was on the swing.

I thought everything with Rebecca getting drunk was ridiculous. First off, it was stupid for her to even want to order every different drink that the waiter listed. I know she wanted to celebrate, but to order all different kinds of liquor was just asking to vomit later. Since the plot required her to get drunk, she could have just ordered a few of one fancy drink. Second, as much as I enjoy Mandy Moore's performance in TIU, I thought she was an unconvincing drunk. 

Now, about the Pearson kids locking the babysitter in the bathroom. The worst. No, maybe the worst was how Rebecca reacted. "We're raising our children to be caring adults!" Uhhhhh. Bratty Kevin bugs me. I guess the babysitter could have handled things differently, but the kids' response was inexcusable.

I hated how Randall and Kevin came to Kate's "defense." They needed to butt out.

Randall: Well this party blew. 😂