S06.E04: Don't Let Me Keep You

[30 Helens]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

When he looked at Rebecca and she looked back and nodded, I thought they were agreeing to take Cat Benatar back to Pittsburgh with them, so it was disappointing that the next scene was of the kids ice skating, even though that must have been intended as a sweet moment.

Jack doesn’t deserve Cat Benatar. The cat is the only thing the boyfriend (forgot his name already) has to remember Jack’s mom by, so it’s only right that he gets to keep her. 

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I viewed his distance from his mom more as a symptom of the abuse both he and his mother suffered at the hands of his father, than his seeking to punish his mother.     

Boo hoo. Jack felt abused. His mother felt both abused and abandoned. Jack knew she couldn’t return to his city, and if anyone could understand why it would be him. It was absolutely up to him to do the hard work of driving four. whole. hours. (sarcasm intended) and he had nobody but himself to blame for his insensitivity.

I don’t know why this episode made me so angry, but I found it both annoying and a waste of time, given that there are so few episodes left.

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Marilyn could’ve visited him more

She was traumatized and didn't want to be anywhere near Pittsburgh for fear of running into her husband.  Jack should have made more of an effort to visit her, but it's human nature to think there is plenty of time to do something in the future.  Plus being together reminded both of them of the pain, resentment, guilt.  As much as they loved each other they both needed to be apart too.  Such a sad situation.  Therapy could have helped.

The little skates under the bed is the saddest thing.

Ah, the Pearson speechifying finally has an appropriate platform.  The eulogy was nice, with Jack admitting the mistakes he made in not staying close to his mom.  He acknowledged she had created a new life with new "family" that he knew nothing about. 

I know 3 people who lost their mom (and one dad) this month, so it was hard for me to watch.

[cardigirl]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Jack definitely knew Nicky was alive, but he likely didn't know where he was. He never thought Nicky was dead, he just declared him "dead to me."  But I don't think he got the postcard about Nicky being in PA until the kids were older. 

However, did their mother not know if Nicky was alive? You would think  she would have contact info even if Jack didn't.

We don't know what Jack told anyone about Nicky. We only know that Rebecca didn't know he had a brother until after Jack died. Nicky was a total surprise to her. So if Jack knew where Nicky was when their mother died, he would have had to reveal that secret to Becs. (She had her own secret of knowing where and who Randall's bio dad was.) 

I think this episode touched me so much because I remember making those weekly phone calls. Every Sunday night (or close to that) we would hear from my mother-in-law. (The 80s and 90s) When I was in college, Sunday was the day to call home. (early 70s) It was not as easy to keep in daily touch then.  The advent of texting and cell phones and email and zoom have made a lot of that different and much easier.  

And I remember how busy my young family made me. There were Sundays when the call home was something of a burden to us, but to the mom on the other end of the phone, it was important. I'm now the mom (grandmom) waiting for the call or hoping to have a nice conversation (I'm not sitting around doing nothing, however ...) and my kids live 10 miles away.  😄  I think the show was pointing out that those little things add up and we never know how much time we have.  Jack's mom wasn't elderly, he probably thought there was time for everything still.  Isn't that something we all do?  We think we have all the time in the world to do that visit, or be closer to someone, or pay attention to someone.

One of the reviews I read had the writer talking about hoping that people would want to call their moms more after the episode. 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by cardigirl

[greekmom]

This was a filler episode and should not have been included in the final season.  This episode would have fit in seasons 2-4 at any point.

With limited amount of episodes left they really should be concentrating on cleaning up and finishing the story. 

I agree with posters above who state that Nicky was totally excluded. Wondering if there is an unspoken agreement to not talk about Nicky due to his mental health issues during the war and unknown status if he is alive or not at that point.

 

[himela]

I think some of you guessed it but I skipped this episode. :P

9 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

the only reason it was made was to give Milo some work , as he’s really not needed in the series any longer

...... for 5 seasons now.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

I thought it was a decent episode. I felt for Jack feeling remorse of not seeing his mom but it’s okay not to have a relationship with family. Nicky should have been mentioned but let’s remember Nicky was a drunk at that time and drunk people are a pain in the ass. The cousin was a bit judgmental but I get it. She lived with Jacks mom and knew her pain of not seeing her son so I couldn’t fault her. It was nice that the mom had her own circle and wasn’t completely alone like a lot of elderly people are.

Nicky was a drunk, but that's no reason to pretend that he doesn't exist, or make no effort to locate him to let him know that his mother is dead. Jack was even willing to let his horrific father know about his mother's death. If he deserved to know, then Nicky did too.

(Also, it's possible that Nicky could have gotten his drinking under control if he wasn't cruelly banished from Jack's life. He was able to get sober once Kevin showed him some kindness. Acknowledgement from Jack would probably have been even more meaningful to him.)

I think Jack's mother's reference to Nicky was the writer's way of saying, "Look, we remember that he exists, okay!" Just mentioning his name wasn't good enough, though.

I do give the writers some credit for showing negative sides to St. Jack. But having a one-off character like Cousin Debby acknowledge his flaws isn't enough - let's hear it from one of the main characters already.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Blakeston

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

My dad had a few siblings 9 hours away. While we were kids in 80's during the spring-fall long weekends we'd pack the car up on a Friday and head to NY drive back on the Monday. Jack couldn't drive half that distance in 13 years to visit his mother? 

I used to drive 5-6 hours round trip in one day just to spend a few hours with my friends from college.

[Lady Calypso]

Count me as another who didn't really like how this episode played out. I get the idea behind it, that Jack and Marilyn were too damaged from the abuse from Daddy Pearson that it caused a rift or whatever, but the fact that Jack, the supposed Super-Dad and Super-Husband, was actually a crap son and didn't visit his mother? Even if it was also on her, he's the one that preaches all these morals and he couldn't even be bothered to make an effort to visit her. As Rebecca even said at one point, they hadn't gone to see Jack's mother since the kids were one years old. That's a five year gap! If they didn't want to drive, couldn't they have flown? 

The acting was fine and all, but the way it made Jack look took he out of the episode at times. Yes, Jack felt guilty, he should feel guilty. He only called his mother instead of making a true effort to go see her, or meet her halfway. It was on him as much as her to make an effort to see each other more. 

It's a damn shame it took her death for him to realize that, but that was a realistic touch to the entire episode for me. Sometimes, you don't know what you missed out on until it's gone.

[Ohiopirate02]

20 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I do give the writers some credit for showing negative sides to St. Jack. But having a one-off character like Cousin Debby acknowledge his flaws isn't enough - let's hear it from one of the main characters already.

This episode would have worked with Cousin Debby pointing out Jack's flaws if the writers would have remembered what those flaws actually are.  They seem to have forgotten Jack's mantra of never looking back and at this point in his life drinking his feelings away.  Jack's mom was collateral damage with the way Jack chose to deal with his past.  He struggled to talk to her or be in the same room with her because her presence reminded him of what he wanted to forget.  I don't know why the show glossed over this.  This episode should have reinforced what we had already seen, not this muddled mess.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

Boo hoo. Jack felt abused. His mother felt both abused and abandoned. Jack knew she couldn’t return to his city, and if anyone could understand why it would be him. It was absolutely up to him to do the hard work of driving four. whole. hours. (sarcasm intended) and he had nobody but himself to blame for his insensitivity.

I don't think abuse can be dismissed quite so easily. 

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

She was traumatized and didn't want to be anywhere near Pittsburgh for fear of running into her husband.  Jack should have made more of an effort to visit her, but it's human nature to think there is plenty of time to do something in the future.  Plus being together reminded both of them of the pain, resentment, guilt.  As much as they loved each other they both needed to be apart too.  Such a sad situation.  Therapy could have helped.

There were things both could have done to try and make more of an effort with one another.  It wasn't all on Jack.

[mostlylurking]

10 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

 

I found this episode boring and quite honestly , I feel like the only reason it was made was to give Milo some work , as he’s really not needed in the series any longer .

 

I feel exactly the same way. Although I liked it and related to it in many ways, it really wasn’t necessary in the context of all the current stories right now. Especially since there are only a few episodes left this one could have been left out.

I did enjoy it though as I find myself in a similar situation with my parents. They live extremely far away and made the decision to move 15 years ago when I was pretty young. Since then I’ve been able to build my own life on my own (no other siblings or close family), eventually got married and had a kid. I’ve only seen my parents a handful of times since they moved. They are retired and it’s just the two of them. I was always working as couldn’t get time off, now I have a toddler and I’m not prepared to travel halfway across the globe for visits. It is what it is. They like to blame me which is their choice. For me it’s no one’s fault. We all make the choices that are best for us and our families, and we have to live with those choices. 

Anyway yeah. Poignant episode but also pointless at the same time. 

[t7686]

At first I didn’t get the point of this episode but then by the eulogy I got it. Jack and his mom were the only “survivors” of the domestic abuse and in order to survive they had to compartmentalize the experience. The fact that both were only able to smile, be themselves etc with their new families is telling. They still loved each other but in order to be their best selves for others they had to sacrifice each other. It’s heartbreaking but makes sense and I think nicely explains just how Jack was able to be the supposed super dad whose death had such an impact on the next generation. I have a feeling Rebecca’s decline will do the same for the generation after. Great episode. 

[Aloeonatable]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

This was a filler episode and should not have been included in the final season.  This episode would have fit in seasons 2-4 at any point.

With limited amount of episodes left they really should be concentrating on cleaning up and finishing the story. 

I agree with posters above who state that Nicky was totally excluded. Wondering if there is an unspoken agreement to not talk about Nicky due to his mental health issues during the war and unknown status if he is alive or not at that point.

 

So not a filler episode in my opinion. There are 14 more episodes to tell us the story of Rebecca's mental decline; who Kevin ends up with; the dissolution of Kate's and Toby's marriage; and Randall's "star in the making." 

As for Nicky not being mentioned. As far as Jack was concerned he had no contact with him until the Big 3 were teenagers. He wouldn't know where to begin to find him. Maybe Nick didn't want to contact his mother and father. 

[Good Queen Jane]

Many survivors of child abuse blame the non-abusing parent for not protecting them. It's not rational, but emotions rarely are. Jack has the defense mechanism of pretending bad things didn't happen. Dad is abusive; he doesn't exist. Mom is safe but reminds him of the abuse; she doesn't exist. Nicky has mental issues; he doesn't exist. When things got tough in his own life, he drank so that they wouldn't exist for at least a little while. Jack would have benefiting from some good therapy. Instead, he created his own little world where all was good. It isn't sustainable and would have fallen apart when the Big 3 became adults and moved on to their own lives, but since he died before that happened, he became Saint Jack.

[Pallas]

Jack, Nicky and Marilyn after all three left the house of pain: can we blame abuse survivors when they don't hold reunions? 

[Snapdragon]

This show is cracking me up acting as if a 4 hour drive is the same as driving coast to coast.  Growing up, my dad's side of the family (four siblings and their families, plus my grandparents) were literally spread over the entire country (one sibing on the East Coast, one on the West Coast, one in the South, one in the Midwest and my grandparents in the Southwest) and we still got together every other year for a reunion, which everyone took turns hosting (and I'm about to be 40 and we still all get together every other year, save for two years ago because of the VID).  So there is no reason why Jack and Rebecca couldn't have spent one holiday each year with Jack's mom.  It wouldn't even have to be one of the major ones.  They could have penciled that poor woman in for Presidents' Day, for pity's sake!

And I think the whole "can't be around each other because of memories of past abuse" thing would have made a lot more sense if Jack's mother was still living in the house Jack grew up in, because then there would have been constant reminders and triggers of that abuse.  I could have understood Jack not wanting to go there to visit her but her cousin's house, which he has absolutely no connection to?  I can see how Jack and his mom wouldn't have had a super close relationship and that there could be this big abusive elephant in the room when they did get together, but I feel that he could have made it through one weekend a year.  

I don't know, this entire episode felt like it was written just to give Milo something to submit for the Emmys.  

[Crs97]

I also noticed that she had to call him each week, which meant she was paying the long distance charges.  Nice touch, show.

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

So not a filler episode in my opinion. There are 14 more episodes to tell us the story of Rebecca's mental decline; who Kevin ends up with; the dissolution of Kate's and Toby's marriage; and Randall's "star in the making." 

As for Nicky not being mentioned. As far as Jack was concerned he had no contact with him until the Big 3 were teenagers. He wouldn't know where to begin to find him. Maybe Nick didn't want to contact his mother and father. 

No, Nicky knew where Jack was and sent postcards to Jack's work. When those went unanswered for years, Nicky finally sent one to Jack's house.  We see this in an episode when the Big 3 were still kids.  Jack goes to Nicky's trailer and they talk.  Jack shows Nicky a picture of the kids before telling Nicky to never contact him again.  How Nicky got this information was never explained nor how long Nicky was sending them.  

[bichonblitz]

I just don't get all the St. Jack hate. There have been many episodes showing Jack with all his flaws. The series clearly shows that time and time again. Alcoholism, bad decisions, stubbornness. With all that, he was devoted to his wife and kids and they adored him, flaws and all. Milo is a good actor. I can't imagine any one else in the role. 

On to this episode...

I for sure thought when the family arrived back home and walked through the door, somebody would be carrying Cat Benatar in with them. Would have been a nice touch. 

Rebecca was lovely with Jack. She knew what to say, when to say it and sometimes just a look and a nod was enough. Driving to the funeral with the children in tow was perfect.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by bichonblitz

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I for sure thought when the family arrived back home and walked through the door, somebody would be carrying Cat Benatar in with them. Would have been a nice touch. 

I'm glad they didn't; I think Cat Benetar belongs with the boyfriend.

[bichonblitz]

12 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I'm glad they didn't; I think Cat Benetar belongs with the boyfriend.

The boyfriend said when ever he had the cat it would always escape and go back to the cousins house. The cousin didn't want the cat. 

[MissLucas]

I wasn't interested in another flashback episode for Jack but then Camryn Manheim showed up in the promo. It turned out to be one of my favorite episodes of this show. I lost my mother three years ago and it still feels raw. Someone once told me that you're never prepared to lose a parent (she was right) and a lot of what happened in the episode was reflecting that.

I understand the anger about Jack not making more of an effort but I've known families living way closer to their grandparents who couldn't bother to make the effort *shrugs shoulders* until one day it's too late. The portrayal of the mother-son relationship was great, they wanted to be close but the shadows of the past both haunted them. As someone mentioned above therapy could have helped. At least Jack had the consolation that his mother had found a new family and happiness - the eulogy was lovely and an excellent piece of writing. Also great - cousin Debby's poem and Camryn Manheim nailed that scene (and all others she was in but that goes without saying).

I did wonder too about Nicky but then I forgot about him because of the mystery of seeing a Pearson struggle to deliver a speech! When Debby asked Jack if he could do the eulogy because she was not good with speeches, I had to laugh. Clearly the pontificating comes from Stanley's side. Of course Jack came through in the end but for a while I was wondering if the episode was taking place in an alternative universe.

I loved tomato soup all my life.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by MissLucas

[Maximona]

1 hour ago, t7686 said:

They still loved each other but in order to be their best selves for others they had to sacrifice each other. It’s heartbreaking but makes sense and I think nicely explains just how Jack was able to be the supposed super dad whose death had such an impact on the next generation. I have a feeling Rebecca’s decline will do the same for the generation after. Great episode. 

Well said.  I agree.

There's a degree of guilt abuse survivors feel that's difficult to understand if you've never been in an abusive relationship yourself.  This is my fault, you think.  If only I had done X, Y, or Z, this would never have happened.

Confronted by deep shame like this, the easiest thing to do is to reinvent yourself as a person to whom the abuse never happened.

Both Jack and Marilyn do this.  And the reinvention process leads to (mostly) happy new lives.

But to get that happiness, they had to sacrifice their relationship.

[BC4ME]

Like many there's a lot of baggage in my family. Not like Jack's but still things to deal with emotionally that don't just go away when that person is no longer in your life.

At first I didn't see the point in this episode but then I realized it might be to show where the good in Jack came from. And for Nicky too. 

IDK about y'all but I cried my eyes out at Jack's eulogy. I'm older so a lot of the episode was very real and touching for me.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BC4ME

[Chellfairy]

Welp! I’m just pissed off
1. jack, the guy who “saves “ everyone, from their horrid lives, volunteers joining army (against medical advice) to watch over little bro, finds him, (yet seems it’s more important to him to take charge and care of others, proving to himself he definitely won’t be his father)

2. finds the “perfect “ girl, gets perfect girl, and creates his “perfect” family, because he never had one. Understandable..EXCEPT, He can’t manage to visit his mom? It’s not like she’s in another country.  I realize nobody has the perfect family, and it shows on show. I come from a dysfunctional  family, growing up in 70’s -80’s, but we loaded up the car . 4 kids, 2 cats and dogs, and saw family. Hours upon hours of fun!🙄

But it’s what you do when you want to create a family unlike the one you grew up in. 
I feel Jack was dishonest with Rebecca(secrets), but she was also selfish, needy and yep, saved from her wealthy family

3. CatBenatar!!
THE BIG 3!! All would have benefited !
Kate! Spoiled, indulged by Jack / (who got her pet dog years after),

Randall, the most smart, favorite of Rebecca’s, yet anxiety ridden to succeed.     ………and then there’s ….

Kevin, the neglected, in the background , and getting berated for his behavior towards it al! That’s what I’m most pissed off about!  Both Rebecca and Jack didn’t think of the family with that one.

Maybe I’m feeling sensitive about it. I’m a dog person, but when my mom passed 7 years ago, had took her 15 yr old cat. She’s now 22, has kidney disease, and it’s a handful, but I swear, when she looks at me, I think she’s my mom! Spooky, scary, and I worry too much that  I’ll lose my mom all over again when she leaves us.

So Jack Pearson, shame on you when CatBenatar chose you because she knows who you are!! You’re moms son!! She sees you 🙀

 I’m done rambling on and on and on.

 

[ams1001]

36 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

The boyfriend said when ever he had the cat it would always escape and go back to the cousins house. The cousin didn't want the cat. 

Better she escape from nearby than escape after they bring her back to Pittsburgh...she might settle down with Mike after a bit.

I did wonder, if she wasn't taking care of the cat, why there was still a bowl on the floor.

[mirandroid]

13 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Jack: Don't let me keep you.

Me: 😭😭😭😭

Same. I started ugly crying as soon as he said that. I composed myself for a little bit then lost it again when he said he didn't have a mother. Rough.

[gonzosgirrl]

Camryn Manheim always brings it, even if she's been somewhat typecast in the characters she plays. For two brand new characters, both she and "Mike" showed me who their characters were in just a few scenes.

I felt for Jack and his mom, both victims of their circumstances. Another instance where we, the viewers, get to see that Jack was certainly not perfect. But family, especially families sundered by abuse, are complicated. Yes, we saw Jack end a call abruptly, but they also let us know that these calls happened every Sunday, like clockwork, presumably for a period of years. So sure, there are going to be some that get interrupted, or maybe you're in a bad mood and aren't super nice, and I think it's natural for those to be the ones you dwell on when someone dies and you're feeling guilty. Human nature, IMO.

I don't consider it a waste of an episode at all. I will say I'm surprised there was no mention of Nicky at all. Cousin Debbie was pissed at Jack for not showing up, but never mentions that Nicky never showed either. Mike never mentioned him either. Was he estranged from his mother, too? Maybe that will still be addressed before it's over - yet another reason for his withdrawal from society.

I think most anyone who had any sort of good relationship with a parent that has passed has that moment of realization that you don't have mom (or dad) any more, no matter how old we are. That moment coming after his eulogy acknowledging how much of her life he missed (and she of his) was a gut-punch. Well done, Milo.

[Maximona]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

there was no mention of Nicky at all.

But there was a mention of Nicky.

Marilyn talks about Nicky when she's talking about fixing hotdogs and tomato soup for Jack.

[JudyObscure]

I understand Jack not really wanting to visit his mother and bring up all the painful memories he associates with her, I always felt depressed for days after visiting my parents and they weren't even abusive.

 Still, in spite of that, what  I don't think  is  right is keeping kids and grandparents apart.  I've never been a grandparent, but I'm told the love they feel for their grandchildren is a special kind of wonderful and the kids themselves often have a bond with the grandparent that fills a need the parents don't even know about.  Maybe if Jack had sucked it up for their sake he might have made new, good memories with his mother.

All that anger Randall had at his mother for not telling him his father was alive, and yet the kids and Rebecca don't seem to see anything wrong with this?

[tennisgurl]

That turned out to be even sadder then I thought it was going to be. I was frustrated by how Jack and Marilyn could seemingly never make time to see each other, even just on holidays or for long weekends, but I think the eulogy explained a lot about what was actually going on. There were logistical issues, especially after Jack and Rebecca had the kids, but the bigger problem was that it was hard for Jack and Marilyn to be around each other, they reminded each other of such terrible times that being in the same room just sent them back to this terribly traumatic time in their lives. It sucks and it would have been great if they had gotten a whole ton of therapy and really made that effort (its not like it was a long drive) to work things out and rebuild a relationship that isn't living under the shadow of Jack's dads abuse, but it didn't happen that way. Being near each other just sent them to that place again, and after they both worked so hard to put that all behind them, they didn't know how to be around each other. Like every time they were together they both kept jumping at every noise expecting Jack's dad to show up, its frustrating but I can understand it. They physically escaped that house, but it was hard for them to ever really leave it. Its great to know that Marilyn lived a full happy life, but its tragic that her and Jack never managed to rebuild a new safer relationship and that she never got to know her grandkids. 

I think its also probably relatable for people in that it can just be hard to make time for people, even without having to unpack massive amounts of trauma. I know people who live in the same city as their relatives and hardly see them, not because they don't get along or have issues, but just because they always go "hopefully we can see each other soon" but never make that effort. Life happens, people get busy, especially when you have little kids, time flies, and then one day your out of time. So I guess the moral of the story, besides how much trauma can linger even when your physically safe, is that you should make the effort with people before its too late.

While I think the show could go harder on Jack's issues, they have always felt very clear to me, his flaws and trauma have always felt consistent. He grew into this obsession with being superdad and giving his kids these amazing memories because he didn't have a great dad or childhood and he wanted better for his kids, plus he was always terrified that he could end up being like his dad. We saw in other flashbacks that Jack's dad started out as an alright guy, Jack watched his father go from gruff but decent to an abusive monster, and while they don't go too far into it I think Jack's father also said that his father was abusive, it led to Jack having this massive fear of eventually becoming like his dad and continuing the cycle, so he massively overcompensated at times in his attempts to be the best dad ever, thinking that if he wasn't perfect for even a second he would start slipping, leading to his kids trying to live up to this impossible standard that Jack set, a standard that not even Jack could live up to. I can understand why some people would see this as filler, as it doesn't move the plot along, but this has never been a super plot heavy show, its more about emotions then plot (for better or worse) and I think this exists to give Jack some closure about his childhood. I think this is actually quite relevant, so many of the Pearson's issues lie in their deification of Jack and so much of that came from Jack's own issues, even if Jack had nothing but the best of intentions, so I think now is a good time to explore those more before the show wraps up. Its a show about how multiple generations of this family affected the next generation, even people they never met, so I think its important to show more about how these wounds affected Jack and how that would go onto affect his kids, who are now also raising kids, which its also affecting. 

We can all agree that Cat Benetar was the real star of the episode, right?

Edited January 26, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I did wonder, if she wasn't taking care of the cat, why there was still a bowl on the floor.

I noticed that, too.  She reminded me of my sister who has vocally hated pets all her life, yet seemingly “gets stuck with” my nephew’s dog when he travels.  She complains the whole time she’s petting it.

[Boo Boo]

Why did we need this Jack-centric episode? We've seen that he had a bad childhood.  Boring episode and more speechifying.  I've never seen someone deliver a eulogy on the fly with the amount of pensiveness that we see on this show.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

14 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

I found this episode boring and quite honestly , I feel like the only reason it was made was to give Milo some work , as he’s really not needed in the series any longer . I think he’s a good actor but he was killed off early on in the series and in my opinion , every scene with him feels like filler and not something necessary or intriguing . His mom died but it had no bearing on anything because We are nearing the end of the series and Jack’s story is complete . He died . Let’s focus on the characters who are still a mystery to us . Who Kevin ends up with and his journey to get there  , Kate’s divorce and marriage to annoying guy , Randall’s career or kids etc . I like Jack but I don’t think we need an entire episode devoted to him at this point . 

Right?

And how about an episode of how Rebecca and Miguel found romance?  

I can't stand Jack's character and feel like the writers and producers think we are all enamored with the legend that is Jack.

[Snapdragon]

I feel they could have solved the whole "where's Nicky?" issue by simply adding in a line where Cousin Debbie says, "I called Nicky but he can't make it.  Claims he can't get off work, but I doubt that's the reason.  You know how he's been ever since Vietnam."  or something along those lines.  Jack lied to Rebecca and the kids about Nicky being dead because he didn't want him involved in his life but everyone else in the family (Jack's parents, extended family) knew that Nicky was still alive, he's just very different since coming back from war and doesn't interact much with people anymore.  

My problem with the whole "Saint Jack" thing is that while we the audience are shown and very aware of his flaws, everyone in present day (Rebecca, the Big Three, Miguel, Nicky) doesn't seem to be.  They always speak of Jack like he was this perfect being and it's become annoying.  In season one, Jack was presented as this amazing father/husband and everyone was all, "Cool.  What an outstanding guy."  Then in season two, they started to show his flaws and mistakes and I thought, "Man, what a neat idea for a show.  To have a character that at first is shown as the perfect husband and father and then to slowly show over several seasons how he was actually a deeply flawed individual but because of his premature death, his family has held him on that pedestal for so long and now you have them gradually come to the realization that while they loved him deeply, he wasn't the saint they've been making him out to be all these years."  But...no.  We basically had only the one scene where Kevin tries to bring up that Jack wasn't perfect in rehab therapy and Rebecca, Randall and Kate all shout him down about how Jack was amazing and how dare anyone say otherwise.  No real mention by the characters about Jack having any real flaws after that.  So yeah, I would like Jack's character a lot more if the other characters weren't still glossing over all his flaws.

[Rootbeer]

15 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I spent way too much time trying to figure out where in Ohio this episode took place.  Cleveland is 3 hours from Pittsburgh.  So is Akron.  And the drive is rather easy even back in 1986.  I grew up outside of Cleveland and spent many a weekend driving to see my great grandmothers in Pennsylvania.   They lived in a small town between Johnstown and Altoona.  My parents had no difficulty taking my older brother and I on these trips.  I don't see why Jack and Rebecca never took their kids to see their grandmother and skate on the pond.

Also from Cleveland and my mom's family was from coal mining country about an hour out of Pittsburgh, about a 4 and a half hour drive when I was a kid in the 60's, about 3.5-4 nowadays with better roads.  I also didn't understand how the kids couldn't possibly have made that drive.  My parents didn't have triplets, but they had 5 kids in 7 years and we went back to PA to visit at least twice a year and they came to see us about as often.  If my folks could wrangle their brood into the car for a road trip, so could Jack and Rebecca.

Also, they managed to go to the cabin in the Adirondacks on a regular basis, even when the kids were young.  The Adirondacks is a minimum 8-9 hour drive from Pittsburgh, more than twice as long as a trip to Grandma's.

I presume that Jack didn't visit his mother often because he didn't want Rebecca to know any details of his childhood or for his mom to spill the beans about Nicky.  Remind me again why I am supposed to think Jack is such a great guy?  

I also feel like I know more than enough about Jack and his angst and, considering we're coming down to the bitter end here, would've preferred an episode that focused on some of the people who are still alive in the present day on the show.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

I feel they could have solved the whole "where's Nicky?" issue by simply adding in a line where Cousin Debbie says, "I called Nicky but he can't make it.  Claims he can't get off work, but I doubt that's the reason.  You know how he's been ever since Vietnam."  or something along those lines.  Jack lied to Rebecca and the kids about Nicky being dead because he didn't want him involved in his life but everyone else in the family (Jack's parents, extended family) knew that Nicky was still alive, he's just very different since coming back from war and doesn't interact much with people anymore.  

My problem with the whole "Saint Jack" thing is that while we the audience are shown and very aware of his flaws, everyone in present day (Rebecca, the Big Three, Miguel, Nicky) doesn't seem to be.  They always speak of Jack like he was this perfect being and it's become annoying.  In season one, Jack was presented as this amazing father/husband and everyone was all, "Cool.  What an outstanding guy."  Then in season two, they started to show his flaws and mistakes and I thought, "Man, what a neat idea for a show.  To have a character that at first is shown as the perfect husband and father and then to slowly show over several seasons how he was actually a deeply flawed individual but because of his premature death, his family has held him on that pedestal for so long and now you have them gradually come to the realization that while they loved him deeply, he wasn't the saint they've been making him out to be all these years."  But...no.  We basically had only the one scene where Kevin tries to bring up that Jack wasn't perfect in rehab therapy and Rebecca, Randall and Kate all shout him down about how Jack was amazing and how dare anyone say otherwise.  No real mention by the characters about Jack having any real flaws after that.  So yeah, I would like Jack's character a lot more if the other characters weren't still glossing over all his flaws.

We did get an episode where Randall saw Jack struggling to keep his past at bay by exercising.  But, the show never did anything with it.  Kid Randall saw his dad struggling, saw Jack exercise through it, and he internalized it.  Randall's running directly stems from him seeing Jack box away the pain.  I also believe Jack got Randall into running as a way for Randall to manage his anxiety (instead of taking him to see a professional because Jack). 

[Rootbeer]

31 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

I feel they could have solved the whole "where's Nicky?" issue by simply adding in a line where Cousin Debbie says, "I called Nicky but he can't make it.  Claims he can't get off work, but I doubt that's the reason.  You know how he's been ever since Vietnam."  or something along those lines.  Jack lied to Rebecca and the kids about Nicky being dead because he didn't want him involved in his life but everyone else in the family (Jack's parents, extended family) knew that Nicky was still alive, he's just very different since coming back from war and doesn't interact much with people anymore.  

For that matter, Nicky was living like a hermit much of the time and, back when Jack's mother died, there wasn't the internet or cell phones.  A simple line that Debbie tried to call Nick but the phone was disconnected and directory assistance in the area where he'd been had no listing for him would've been enough and would've been in keeping with Nicky's storyline.

[bichonblitz]

14 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I presume that Jack didn't visit his mother often because he didn't want Rebecca to know any details of his childhood or for his mom to spill the beans about Nicky.  Remind me again why I am supposed to think Jack is such a great guy?  

The episode showed Jacks mother visiting him and his family so he clearly wasn't worried about her "spilling the beans" about anything. She was unhappy while she was there. That's not on Jack. Does that make him a bad guy? Sometimes spending time with parents can be uncomfortable when you are an adult. It depends on the relationship. After my mother died I didn't like talking to my dad much for reasons I won't get in to. You can still love a parent but seeing them triggers unhappy memories. 

[ams1001]

54 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I noticed that, too.  She reminded me of my sister who has vocally hated pets all her life, yet seemingly “gets stuck with” my nephew’s dog when he travels.  She complains the whole time she’s petting it.

My dad "hates cats." Always has. Used to say if we brought home a cat he'd kick us out with it (the real reason we couldn't get a cat when I was a kid was that my brother is allergic to them). When I was in college a stray showed up in the driveway and gradually worked his way from not being allowed in the house when no one was home to not being allowed out of the house when no one was home; we had him for seven years. In 2006 we adopted two kittens (from a litter of four that my cousin rescued), one was my mom's and technically the other was mine (I lived there at the time but moved out a year or so later but she did not come with me). My dad was her favorite person in the world and she went to bed with him every night. He sleeps on his side and she would lay on his hip, facing the door like she was guarding him. He hates cats so much he let this go on for years. 😄 (She died last spring at 15; her brother died a few years ago at 12.) And for the past month and a half they were taking care of one of their pastor's three cats while they had lead paint remediation done on the parsonage.

But he hates cats. 🙄

5 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

For that matter, Nicky was living like a hermit much of the time and, back when Jack's mother died, there wasn't the internet or cell phones.  A simple line that Debbie tried to call Nick but the phone was disconnected and directory assistance in the area where he'd been had no listing for him would've been enough and would've been in keeping with Nicky's storyline.

Yeah, I can buy that Nicky couldn't be reached or would choose not to come to the funeral for a number of reasons, but you'd think they'd at least try to let him know. Just feels like something's off when they don't even have a throwaway line so the audience knows they didn't forget that she had another son.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Just feels like something's off when they don't even have a throwaway line so the audience knows they didn't forget that she had another son.

It is off, and that's why I feel we'll get some kind of explanation from Nicky's POV before it's over. I don't think this was just a filler/let's-get-Milo-an-Emmy-nod episode thrown in for no reason. I suppose there is the correlation that the Big 3 will soon enough also not 'have a mother anymore', but I don't think that's the whole reason for the episode.

[AzraeltheCat]

14 hours ago, buttersister said:

And we get to see that Rebecca-Miguel episode we’ve wanted. Here’s hoping it’ll be worth waiting for, and not a lesson to be careful what you ask for😉

yes, but they are also forcing Cassidy on us next week too [while I like Jennifer Morrison the actress, I am not a Cassidy fan, especially a Kevin /Cassidy fan].

[Ohiopirate02]

46 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Also from Cleveland and my mom's family was from coal mining country about an hour out of Pittsburgh, about a 4 and a half hour drive when I was a kid in the 60's, about 3.5-4 nowadays with better roads.  I also didn't understand how the kids couldn't possibly have made that drive.  My parents didn't have triplets, but they had 5 kids in 7 years and we went back to PA to visit at least twice a year and they came to see us about as often.  If my folks could wrangle their brood into the car for a road trip, so could Jack and Rebecca.

Also, they managed to go to the cabin in the Adirondacks on a regular basis, even when the kids were young.  The Adirondacks is a minimum 8-9 hour drive from Pittsburgh, more than twice as long as a trip to Grandma's.

I presume that Jack didn't visit his mother often because he didn't want Rebecca to know any details of his childhood or for his mom to spill the beans about Nicky.  Remind me again why I am supposed to think Jack is such a great guy?  

I also feel like I know more than enough about Jack and his angst and, considering we're coming down to the bitter end here, would've preferred an episode that focused on some of the people who are still alive in the present day on the show.

I'm the same age as the Big 3 and my older brother is only 19 months older than me.  I do assume that Rebecca and Jack can handle whatever my parents did.  And they did this drive a lot.  Sometimes my cousin who is the same age as my older brother came with us.  Other times, we rode with my grandparents and dad would either come later or stay at home.  I have fond memories of these trips--Pappy went one way and we stopped at one particular restaurant, my dad preferred another route that took us by my family's favorite diner (if you ever find yourself near Murrysville Pennsylvania, do yourself a favor and stop at Dick's Diner.  Best pies I have ever had.), hanging out with my great aunt and uncle on their farm, etc.  When I was younger, someone in my extended family was making monthly treks along this route.  For whatever reason, my grandparents and their siblings all bypassed Pittsburgh when moving from coal country to a city for work.  I had and still have multiple great aunts and uncles who live in the greater Cleveland area plus their children.  We were all able to manage.

[Haleth]

It wasn’t the physical distance keeping them apart. 

[PRgal]

Will we learn more about Mike the Boyfriend or is this it? And yes, hotdogs (without the bun) and tomato soup...that's weird and...kind of gross, to be honest (I've heard of hotdog and grilled cheese (as in the sausage, sliced up and placed in the sandwich).  Is it an actual thing or something thought up by the writing team?  

[watch2much]

interesting all those who relate stories of getting together with their families over distances.  was you home life abusive?  mine was.  although I did visit ( usually for Thanksgiving), I'd find I'd have a re-entry emotional turmoil after. It took a toll.   I rarely see any of my brothers and sisters.  I always said it was like when we grew up it was every man for himself. we've each had to find ways to live our lives as well as we can.  so I can understand limiting reminders of that life.  of course, it was sad they didn't get to see each other but maybe they were doing the best they could.

[izabella]

5 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

This show is cracking me up acting as if a 4 hour drive is the same as driving coast to coast. 

It's especially hilarious considering the Pearsons are known for traveling all over Pennsylvania, and coast to coast, in the blink of an eye.

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Will we learn more about Mike the Boyfriend or is this it? And yes, hotdogs (without the bun) and tomato soup...that's weird and...kind of gross, to be honest (I've heard of hotdog and grilled cheese (as in the sausage, sliced up and placed in the sandwich).  Is it an actual thing or something thought up by the writing team?  

Canned spaghetti with cut-up hotdogs is only justthismuch different than tomato soup, and it's Sheldon Cooper's comfort food. :P

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, watch2much said:

interesting all those who relate stories of getting together with their families over distances.  was you home life abusive?  mine was.  although I did visit ( usually for Thanksgiving), I'd find I'd have a re-entry emotional turmoil after. It took a toll.   I rarely see any of my brothers and sisters.  I always said it was like when we grew up it was every man for himself. we've each had to find ways to live our lives as well as we can.  so I can understand limiting reminders of that life.  of course, it was sad they didn't get to see each other but maybe they were doing the best they could.

My grandfather was an abusive drunk for most of my mother's childhood.  She was the youngest so she missed out on a lot of it.  Her older brother shielded her from the worst of it.  My grandfather changed though once my aunts and uncle got married and started having kids.  My aunts and uncle all did make the decision to allow him to see their children.  One of my aunts lived in Wyoming for years, but still made the trek back home with their kids regularly.  Some of them came every summer, others every other summer, but they all came.  

[PRgal]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Canned spaghetti with cut-up hotdogs is only justthismuch different than tomato soup, and it's Sheldon Cooper's comfort food. :P

But at least there's noodles in it.