S06.E04: Don't Let Me Keep You

[Ohiopirate02]

36 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

You're right of course but people in the height of emotion don't always do the sensible thing. They've now had to allow pets in a lot of flood rescues because people were refusing to leave without their pets and dying because of it. I think it was Katrina where a lot of people died because they wouldn't leave their pets.

I live in a hurricane prone area, and shelters should always have allowed pets.  The aftermath of a hurricane with devastating flooding is a clusterfuck and when people have to abandon their animals the animal shelters get overrun for months afterwards.  Resources are already stretched thin and most cannot handle the extra animals.  Far easier for shelters and temporary housing to allow pets than to burden shelters needlessly.  

Getting back to the show, Jack went back in the house for more than just the dog.  He also got a few mementos.  The dog was just his excuse to go back in and be a hero.  And if he had survived that night, his heart was a ticking time bomb that would have gone off at another moment.  The fire didn't help, but he was always going to die from a heart attack.

[CountryGirl]

I am sorry for your loss, @Boo Boo.

[smartymarty]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:09 PM, chocolatine said:

My paternal grandfather died when I was six, and he was sick for several years before that, but I still cherish the time I had with him, 35 years later.

Did your grandfather live nearby? My grandmother died when I was 5, but she lived three hours away, so I only knew her from 2-3 visits. When she died, I just thought "oh, well I guess we won't be visiting anymore." Very similar to the kids here asking which grandmother died and not really being upset. Moreover, it doesn't have to be your grandparent for someone to cherish time spent with that person and to miss them when they're gone.

16 hours ago, Shermie said:

I hear it a lot, but if someone is 14, of course they’re “going on” (whatever that means) or going to be 15.

It means she was on the verge of turning 15, i.e., 14 and 10 or 11 months.
 

20 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

is there no anger that he pretty much made all the important shots in life and that she had to go along with? 

I agree. Jack's (and many others' in the show) big gestures are controlling, not romantic, as they make decisions for someone else that can't be reversed else the recipient is accused of not being grateful.

[Tabbygirl521]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:05 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Where the heck was Nicky? There wasn't even a throwaway line between Jack and Cousin Deb about how she tried to track him down to tell him THAT HIS MOTHER DIED and wasn't able to find him? Jack is lucky that Nicky didn't show up and that his mother never talked about him to Rebecca.

Hot dogs and tomato soup? Dontcha know by now these people are too quirky for grilled cheese?

I did appreciate that besides the eulogy there wasn't some heartfelt conversation between Jack and Deb or Jack and Mike about Jack's mother and instead it was all awkward talk about wrestling and attitude from Deb. Also, that Jack's father didn't show up at the funeral and cause a scene.

I was trying to figure out if this was when Nicky was in Vietnam.

i expected to see him because Griffin Dunne was listed in the credits.

ETA: never mind, I miscalculated. Thought this episode was set in the Seventies. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Tabbygirl521

[madmax]

19 hours ago, bros402 said:

So, my dad has a history of people dying near holidays. Once it hits November, he always waxes nostalgic

That's me.  One brother died on Christmas Eve; his twin, my only sister, died the day after Thanksgiving and my other brother died two weeks after Christmas.  Holidays kinda suck.

[GeorgiaRai]

I thought the correctly-sized skates might have been part of Marilyn's end-of-life planning.  Cousin Deb said she "took care of everything" so maybe she left them there, hoping for the very ending we got.

If Marilyn's close friends knew about the estrangement (and it seems they would have), I can see the entire event taking place without anyone mentioning Nicky to Jack.  And, again, if Marilyn "took care of everything", she would have asked someone besides Jack to reach Nicky.  Of course, there was no way for writers to deal with an appearance by Nicky at the funeral, but I was fine not hearing things I feel sure were discussed outside of Jack's presence.

In my mind, Camryn Manheim will always be the stage mom/manager to Selena Gomez's Mikayla on Hannah Montana!

[Dreamboat Annie]

Can anyone tell me how to quote posts from different pages without LOSING EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ALREADY TYPED?  

[madmax]

2 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Can anyone tell me how to quote posts from different pages without LOSING EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ALREADY TYPED?  

Use multi-quote, the +"  It saves all of the posts you want to quote until you're ready to post.  It will show on the right side of the screen in a little box that says "quote X number posts."  When you're ready to post, click on that box and all the posts you quoted will be in the box for you to respond.

You don't respond until after you've picked all the quotes you want to respond to.  Unfortunately, sometimes I forget why I quoted someone.  😄

Edited February 2, 2022 by madmax

[Scarlett45]

This episode did make me shed a few tears. I have lost so many loved ones in the last year, all of my caregivers are now gone besides my Mom; and my Mom is my most favorite being in the world. The idea of having no mother is the saddest thing I could imagine so I empathized with Jack there. 
 

I wanted to echo the “thank you” to @Country girl for sharing her experience with us. I could see how the memories of the abuse and the regret, guilt, anger etc put a wedge between Jack and his Mother. It’s clear he loved her- he got her out of that house which was not his job (she was the parent and he was the child at the end of the day). I do believe they just didn’t have the tools to work through things- we have so many more resources in 2022 to discuss and process things like this, it’s much more common to talk about than it was in 1986. I am so very glad that Marilyn had some great years with her friends and didn’t die at the hands of that POS husband of hers (which likely would’ve happened if she hadn’t left).
 

I think Marilyn wanted Jack to be free from the memories of the abuse, and have a better life with the next generation. I think Jack did want his Mom to be safe and happy. Also he probably thought he would have more time “one day.” They didn’t go about strengthening their relationship the right way, but as my Mom says “Parents are just people having sex.”**

 

I thought this episode was very “real”.
 

**yes I know not all people become parents via sex. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:41 PM, shoovenbooty said:

As for hot dogs with tomato soup, that soup looked awfully thick and I wonder if Jack's mom was kind of using it as a sauce for the hot dogs?

We saw Jack crumble something, which I assume was a sleeve of crackers, into the soup while cooking it.

And there are plenty of tomato-based soups that have sliced sausage in them, so I don't know why this seems strange to so many people (except for the fact that the hotdogs and soup were separate, because not every kid likes to mix foods.)

On 1/26/2022 at 9:50 PM, Johnny Dollar said:

And keep your tears and “I don’t have a mother anymore” to yourself. I think you’ll be able to get over missing those weekly distracted three minute phone calls where you couldn’t wait to get her off the phone.

Did we see more than two phone calls?  In the 1st, Jack picked up the phone instantly and it was his mom who signed off.  In the 2nd, Rebecca was in the middle of stirring dinner and one of the babies needed attention, so they kept  passing her (?) back and forth.  Maybe the calling time should have been switched to after the kids were in bed, but since they held on to 6 pm, distractions were bound to occur with triplets.

I think that posters who are desperate for even one more minute with their deceased parents see these short phone calls in a different light than those who aren't projecting their own lives onto Jack's.  And those who understand the twinge of repulsion towards his childhood that he probably felt every time he spoke to his mother also understand why he didn't try to prolong the conversations even when he wasn't needed by the kids.

With regard to not driving the 4 hours to see his mom because the kids were young, yes, that was a justification to avoid dealing with an activity the thought of which made him feel very uncomfortable.  It is also true that his mother didn't push him to visit because she didn't wasn't to be a bother.  I feel that if she had told Jack that she wanted to see her grandchildren very badly but just didn't feel able to come to them, he would have overcome his aversion and made the trip (and probably would have enjoyed it, since she would not have been looking over her shoulder all the time), but it wasn't her style to push him.  Every time he thought about not visiting, he probably rationalized it by thinking that his mom was only in her early 60's, and there was plenty of time left to take trips to see her when the kids were a little older.

Edited February 2, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:54 AM, CarpeFelis said:

While I’m not a big fan of Jack, and agree he can be self-centered, that wasn’t my impression in this scene. It felt to me like he was overwhelmed and felt left out as it hit him that all these details of his mom’s life were completely foreign to him, like he never really knew her. Kind of like sitting with a bunch of people telling “you had to be there” stories when you were the only one who hadn’t been there.

Definitely.  He further realized that he would never get to see the happy mother that the stories and pictures reflected.  What a shame!  And what could he have contributed to the conversation?  That she had had brief moments of happiness when his father wasn't around and she made him tomato soup and hotdogs?  So he kept silent, and kept drinking.

On 1/27/2022 at 9:09 AM, CountryGirl said:

I think there was also some resentment on Jack's part, as the child, for his having to be the parent for his mother at times when he was still a kid himself. I can relate to that piece as well. He undoubtedly had anger towards his mother for not protecting them all by leaving Stanley. Of course, he knows on an intellectual level that she had little options to leave back then (even now it is no picnic), but human beings aren't always rational ones and there would be unresolved anger. There would also be guilt on Marilyn's part, no matter how much she loved him, and seeing Jack is a reminder of her trauma and her feeling like she failed her sons by not getting out much sooner.  Again, I can relate to all of that so much.

In order to console Jack in last week's episode, Rebecca said that her father had often been at work instead of at home, but that she still had loved him.  Jack responded by asking Rebecca to please not compare him to her father, and then asked how would she like it if he compared Rebecca to his mother, to which she agreed that she wouldn't.  I assume that the negative comparison would have been about Jack's mother's passiveness in the face of her and the boys' abuse, since she certainly wasn't mean or neglectful.

Edited February 2, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:27 AM, sadie said:

But what bugged most was Jack opening ONE can of tomato soup and wanting us to believe it filled bowls for FIVE people. Sorry but things like that totally take me out of a show. 

Three people, right?  He didn't make for himself or Rebecca, just as his mother hadn't made for herself.

On 1/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Shermie said:

If Jack’s father was intentionally kept in the dark about Marilyn’s whereabouts to protect her, how did he know where to go for the funeral?

I don't think he would have known, unless he searched LOTS of papers for her obituary, or had the ability to see the # Jack was calling from and trace it to a certain location.  That confused me too.

Edited February 2, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't think he would have known, unless he searched LOTS of papers for her obituary, or had the ability to see the # Jack was calling from and trace it to a certain location.  That confused me too.

Jack was drunk when he made that call, and in the 13 years Marylin had been gone, it’s likely Stanley figured out where she went. He knew she wasn’t living with Jack, so likely she was with a relative. Debbie was her cousin with whom she was close and owned a home/business so  I could think it’s reasonable for him to figure out she went there. 
 

But again it was an empty threat. Jack was angry, drunk and grieving. He wanted to lash out at his Dad (who deserved it) so he said a bunch of stuff that wasn’t the most logical to get his feelings out. 

[Aloeonatable]

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Three people, right?  He didn't make for himself or Rebecca, just as his mother hadn't made for herself.

It was the large family size can and you always add equal amount of water to the soup. 

[Dreamboat Annie]

17 hours ago, madmax said:

Use multi-quote, the +"  It saves all of the posts you want to quote until you're ready to post.  It will show on the right side of the screen in a little box that says "quote X number posts."  When you're ready to post, click on that box and all the posts you quoted will be in the box for you to respond.

You don't respond until after you've picked all the quotes you want to respond to.  Unfortunately, sometimes I forget why I quoted someone.  😄

Thank you so much, madmax!  I'd love to give it a go, but unfortunately I see nothing anywhere on my screen that remotely resembles the +", or a little box that says "quote X number posts".  It was kind of you to take the time to help me with this and I appreciate it very much.  

[madmax]

1 hour ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Thank you so much, madmax!  I'd love to give it a go, but unfortunately I see nothing anywhere on my screen that remotely resembles the +", or a little box that says "quote X number posts".  It was kind of you to take the time to help me with this and I appreciate it very much.  

Do you see this on the bottom of the post you want to quote?  The first one ( +" ") is for multi-quotes, where you quote a bunch of people in one post, or if you want to quote something from one page to another.

This will show up on the right side, once you've quoted multiple posts.  When you're ready to type your response(s), click on that and it will put everything you've quoted in one post.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Kirkydee]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Jack was drunk when he made that call, and in the 13 years Marylin had been gone, it’s likely Stanley figured out where she went. He knew she wasn’t living with Jack, so likely she was with a relative. Debbie was her cousin with whom she was close and owned a home/business so  I could think it’s reasonable for him to figure out she went there. 
 

But again it was an empty threat. Jack was angry, drunk and grieving. He wanted to lash out at his Dad (who deserved it) so he said a bunch of stuff that wasn’t the most logical to get his feelings out. 

I was wondering the same thing about Stanley knowing the whereabouts of Marilyn.  But not only did he probably deducted Marilyn lived with Debby, he would've been served some type of papers for the divorce. Unless they were estranged for 13 years.  I'm sure her address, or at least the address of the lawyer would have been on some paperwork ( I never saw divorce papers so I'm guessing)

[Kath94]

On 1/27/2022 at 6:32 PM, ams1001 said:

My dad worked for Bell Labs and one of his benefits was free long distance. When we were in college we had a code for calling home; I'd let it ring once and hang up, and they would call me back. My brother had two rings. (The downside, of course, being that my parents could never answer the phone until the third ring.)

Similar story here! My mother paid extra for a service of unlimited minutes to my area code, the next one over in California.  I'd call, ring once, and hang up.  Mom would call me back. <3

[Kath94]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:07 AM, JKL845 said:

IAlso, they always thought there would be more time. Someday. 

THIS.  If we all learn nothing else, it's DO IT NOW.  Don't wait.  There isn't always more time.♥️😢

[Dreamboat Annie]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:24 PM, madmax said:

Do you see this on the bottom of the post you want to quote?  The first one ( +" ") is for multi-quotes, where you quote a bunch of people in one post, or if you want to quote something from one page to another.

This will show up on the right side, once you've quoted multiple posts.  When you're ready to type your response(s), click on that and it will put everything you've quoted in one post.

Hope this helps a bit.

Wow, thank you again so much, madmax!  I'm looking forward to trying it out.  If I don't succeed, it has nothing to do with your clear instructions, trust me.  

May I just say once more how much I appreciate this.  You kindly went out of your way, taking the time to patiently help a fellow poster (a complete stranger really) who should already have known how to do that.  Seriously, thank you :).  

 

[Dreamboat Annie]

I finally got around to watching this episode and I don't know who I'm more mad at.  The show, for reducing me to a puddle of tears.. or myself, for allowing the show to reduce me to a puddle of tears.  That was just beautifully done.  Heart wrenching.  Milo was impeccable imo, and deserves the Emmy for this.  Unfortunately (as far as this show goes anyway), Emmy seems to value overacting above flawless, realistic and solid performances.  I don't feel this episode was filler at all but rather the show gradually wrapping up the stories they've been telling us for almost six years.  Almost like a process.  The process of elimination lol.  We won't be seeing Jack's mom/parents again.  This was closure.  

Oh, poor, poor Jack and Nicky.  No wonder they were both drunks.  Home at any age (but especially while growing up) is supposed to be your safe place.  Your personal haven from the cold and cruel world outside.  Supportive and loving, the place you know you will not be harassed, bullied, beaten etc.  There is no safe place for you when you fear going home.  Jack and Nicky grew up unable to trust anyone.  They learned at such a young age that they couldn't count on the two adults who were supposed to love and protect them the most.  One a horrible abuser and the other who failed to rescue them from him.  

I think Milo perfectly conveyed Jack's regrets about Marilyn.  And I agree with others who said that the relationship lifting should not have been solely on Jack.  Assuming not every single phone call went like the few we were shown did, Marilyn never told Jack she had a boyfriend.  It's not like she was worried Jack would hate the boyfriend out of loyalty to his dad.  I realise she didn't want to make the calls about herself, but it looks like she didn't share anything with Jack about her life there.  We have no proof Marilyn was not invited to spend major holidays.  I think Jack and Rebecca would have eagerly welcomed both her and Mike, had Marilyn expressed interest in coming.  But if she didn't I can understand that.  She had a life there, a devoted boyfriend, her beloved cousin and close friends she wouldn't want to miss celebrating the holiday with.  

It was very obvious that Marilyn loved the Big Three.  I cried even more when I saw the box with the skates in it, where she had written the children's names.  Her hand writing on the box affected me more than the skates.  That sort of thing really gets to me.  I was instantly reminded of when I accompanied my parents to clean out my grandfather's place.  My grandpa was the sweetest most gentle person I have ever known and I loved him dearly.  I came across a small, slightly worn square note of paper on which he had printed as best he could (English was not his first language), my and my siblings names and our birthdates beside.  For some reason this really got to me, and a typical, somewhat bratty 14 year old grew up a lot that day.  Our other grandparents were wealthy, but he didn't let that intimidate or deter him.  Every year, each of us received a birthday card with a dollar bill inside.  I kept the little piece of paper and my heart still breaks whenever I come across it to this day.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 1:26 PM, Boo Boo said:

 

I also get annoyed by this magical love story between Jack and Rebecca. Seems like they only had a few blips and were hopelessly in love until the end.  I don't need a fairy tale romance; I'd like to see more realism about them as a couple beyond what, an episode where he had a jealous streak b/c she wanted to tour with some band, and then the drinking where he was forced to leave to get help.

 

I'm getting a vibe that Rebecca and Miguel will be revealed as a magical love story of their own, one that could rival her love story with Jack.  The way he was lovingly organising her meds and telling her he would always be there for her.  And not only because of that, but it almost seems like they've kept details of their relationship from us until the last season for a reason.  For maximum gut-punch, perhaps?  I don't trust this show not to make it sad.

This episode was remarkably well done, but so, so sad.  I get that that is to be expected as some of the stories come to an end, but if the remaining eps are mostly like this one, I don't know if I can take it!  

 

 

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I finally got around to watching this episode and I don't know who I'm more mad at.  The show, for reducing me to a puddle of tears.. or myself, for allowing the show to reduce me to a puddle of tears.  That was just beautifully done.  Heart wrenching.  Milo was impeccable imo, and deserves the Emmy for this.  Unfortunately (as far as this show goes anyway), Emmy seems to value overacting above flawless, realistic and solid performances.  I don't feel this episode was filler at all but rather the show gradually wrapping up the stories they've been telling us for almost six years.  Almost like a process.  The process of elimination lol.  We won't be seeing Jack's mom/parents again.  This was closure.  

Oh, poor, poor Jack and Nicky.  No wonder they were both drunks.  Home at any age (but especially while growing up) is supposed to be your safe place.  Your personal haven from the cold and cruel world outside.  Supportive and loving, the place you know you will not be harassed, bullied, beaten etc.  There is no safe place for you when you fear going home.  Jack and Nicky grew up unable to trust anyone.  They learned at such a young age that they couldn't count on the two adults who were supposed to love and protect them the most.  One a horrible abuser and the other who failed to rescue them from him.  

I think Milo perfectly conveyed Jack's regrets about Marilyn.  And I agree with others who said that the relationship lifting should not have been solely on Jack.  Assuming not every single phone call went like the few we were shown did, Marilyn never told Jack she had a boyfriend.  It's not like she was worried Jack would hate the boyfriend out of loyalty to his dad.  I realise she didn't want to make the calls about herself, but it looks like she didn't share anything with Jack about her life there.  We have no proof Marilyn was not invited to spend major holidays.  I think Jack and Rebecca would have eagerly welcomed both her and Mike, had Marilyn expressed interest in coming.  But if she didn't I can understand that.  She had a life there, a devoted boyfriend, her beloved cousin and close friends she wouldn't want to miss celebrating the holiday with.  

It was very obvious that Marilyn loved the Big Three.  I cried even more when I saw the box with the skates in it, where she had written the children's names.  Her hand writing on the box affected me more than the skates.  That sort of thing really gets to me.  I was instantly reminded of when I accompanied my parents to clean out my grandfather's place.  My grandpa was the sweetest most gentle person I have ever known and I loved him dearly.  I came across a small, slightly worn square note of paper on which he had printed as best he could (English was not his first language), my and my siblings names and our birthdates beside.  For some reason this really got to me, and a typical, somewhat bratty 14 year old grew up a lot that day.  Our other grandparents were wealthy, but he didn't let that intimidate or deter him.  Every year, each of us received a birthday card with a dollar bill inside.  I kept the little piece of paper and my heart still breaks whenever I come across it to this day.

 

I'm getting a vibe that Rebecca and Miguel will be revealed as a magical love story of their own, one that could rival her love story with Jack.  The way he was lovingly organising her meds and telling her he would always be there for her.  And not only because of that, but it almost seems like they've kept details of their relationship from us until the last season for a reason.  For maximum gut-punch, perhaps?  I don't trust this show not to make it sad.

This episode was remarkably well done, but so, so sad.  I get that that is to be expected as some of the stories come to an end, but if the remaining eps are mostly like this one, I don't know if I can take it!  

 

 

😢