S01.E06: Departures

[Samsnee]

3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

The suite/sleeping arrangements are clearly a plot device in order to create conflict between Quinn and Olivia in order to get Quinn out of the room and onto the beach where he loses his phone, meets the paddlers and has his 'revelation."  The "handwave" i did was that they made this trip decision last minute (because Nicole's work keeps her "so busy" she can't get away) and that was the only suite left.  

I questioned it as well that they would all be in one suite but assuming at least 10k a night, even two rooms at that rate can be high for people who are good their  money. 

[edhopper]

I figured it out. They were never on Maui. No one goes to Maui and just stays an eats all their meals at a resort. No trips to Lahania, no sunrise on Haleakala, no road to Hana, no whale watching. It wasn't just the family, it was all the quest.

And a guest kills a staff member, another is violently robbed, yet no police.

The only solution that makes sense...it's  Westworld.

[MartyQui]

So the suite they had at the FourSeasons Hawaii would be about $2500 a night in February.  Expensive, but not really rich people.  

[candall]

I was obsessed with the wallpaper design that was scanned during the opening credits.   Loved it.

So it's strange I didn't notice until the last episode that Steve Zahn's name was presented next to a large pink hanging pair of testicular-looking fruits.  : )

[CarpeFelis]

3 hours ago, edhopper said:

I figured it out. They were never on Maui. No one goes to Maui and just stays an eats all their meals at a resort. No trips to Lahania, no sunrise on Haleakala, no road to Hana, no whale watching. It wasn't just the family, it was all the quest.

And a guest kills a staff member, another is violently robbed, yet no police.

The only solution that makes sense...it's  Westworld.

They filmed on Maui but the White Lotus was supposed to be on a smaller island, which was why they were ferried to and from it by boat.

[pennben]

My goodness, this is a scorpio/frog story and, interestingly enough now, it's not just that the frog made a mistake, but the frog is actually being perceived as the bad guy here.  Hmmm.

[chocolatine]

43 minutes ago, pennben said:

My goodness, this is a scorpio/frog story and, interestingly enough now, it's not just that the frog made a mistake, but the frog is actually being perceived as the bad guy here.  Hmmm.

In the scorpio/frog story they both die. I'm not sure who you think are the frog and scorpio on this show.

[lokison]

By the time we got to the last episode, I was expecting the death to be either Armond or Quinn, because I think Quinn is the only person who grew and became a better person. 

How entitled is Shane going to be now that he's gotten away with killing someone he clearly wanted to destroy? 

[CarpeFelis]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

In the scorpio/frog story they both die. I'm not sure who you think are the frog and scorpio on this show.

I’m wondering that too. Which one is the scorpioN and which is the frog?

[edhopper]

14 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

They filmed on Maui but the White Lotus was supposed to be on a smaller island, which was why they were ferried to and from it by boat.

Exclusive Lanai resort. Got it, that makes more sense.

[Lois Sandborne]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:36 AM, bobbyjoe said:

I might have been more primed for the kind of ending we got because I’ve seen a lot of Mike White’s other works which— to say the least—  usually don’t end with clean and tidy happy endings.

I've seen this implication everywhere, that people who dislike this show didn't "get" it or what it's trying to do. Trust me, I got it. I didn't need a neat and tidy happy ending. I needed this show not to be a plodding, superficial, six-week meditation on an old theme, with underwritten archetypes for characters and nothing new to say except "check out this mournful version of 'Aloha Oe'." If this inspired new reflections about wealth or privilege for you (the general 'You'), truly, congratulations.

I really enjoyed Enlightened. I hated this show so much I'm scared to ever go back and watch it again.

[KnoxForPres]

On 8/18/2021 at 10:07 PM, candall said:

I was obsessed with the wallpaper design that was scanned during the opening credits.   Loved it.

So it's strange I didn't notice until the last episode that Steve Zahn's name was presented next to a large pink hanging pair of testicular-looking fruits.  : )

If you haven’t yet read the interview with Mike White on Vulture. Wallpaper comes up!

This show was a weird one for me bc it’s getting so much praise and adoration in the world and I was…meh.  People who I admire and typically agree with are like “Hand all the Emmys over to Jennifer Coolidge now!”  And similar sentiments and I feel like I watched a different show. 

I never hated Shane or the Mossbacher’s like I was supposed to. I didn’t love them but mostly I didn’t care.  I felt it took an eternity for Rachel to say anything and when she finally did the long, dramatic pauses had no payoff.  Kai knowingly broke into a guests room and then assaulted an innocent.  

It takes all kinds so I get this one didn’t wow me but I’m pretty easy to please. I watch Bravo for crying out loud!

It is rare that I feel it’s cool to back something but that’s how I view The White Lotus. It’s very cool to be behind it. And maybe those people saw something I didn’t. I’ll concede if so. But I found it boring and would not recommend. 

[Chaos Theory]

I was watching “Nine Perfect  Strangers”  on Hulu and everyone kept bringing up this show so I kinda binged through it,   It was enjoyable.  I actually do like these kinds of shows that are more about the internal then the external.  Yes nothing really happened but each of the characters went through an existential crisis.  

I actually do have sympathy for all the members of the  Mossbacher family.    Maybe because I know families like them. Yes they are all rich white and privileged but they are also basically decent people.   I know teenage girls like Olivia.   They want to show their independence but also kinda like having money and privedge and also kinda resent how successful their parents are so they lash out in childish ways.   Most eventually grow out of it.   I can also see why Quinn wanted to stay.  I am guessing he didn’t have much to go home to.  He is likely to turn into a version of Shane if he went home.  Someone with no real goals but all the money in the world.

And yeah Rachel made her own bed but it is understandable why.   She is more then likely an average journalist who lucked into being a trophy wife.  It might not make her happy but she will have all the money in the world to comfort her.

 

And yeah Belinda shouldn’t have gotten emotionally invested in Tanya but it is understandable why she did. 
 

I will be surprised if Olivia And Paula remain friends for long.  

Edited August 20, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:26 AM, pennben said:

My goodness, this is a scorpio/frog story and, interestingly enough now, it's not just that the frog made a mistake, but the frog is actually being perceived as the bad guy here.  Hmmm.

Well the whole moral of the story is a scorpion will always be a scorpion.   So the you can infer that a frog will always be a frog.   The frog would always help the scorpion because that is essentially what the frog is.  

On 8/18/2021 at 8:54 PM, Samsnee said:

I questioned it as well that they would all be in one suite but assuming at least 10k a night, even two rooms at that rate can be high for people who are good their  money. 

I think they had two suites.   One for Nichole and Paul and one for the kids.  

 

 

[skotnikov]

I'm quite sure this was the inspiration for the series. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise:_Love

[Pike Ludwell]

A lot of references to rich *white* people, often said with a tone of hostility. Lots of race consciousness, and racial hostility. The writer is reflecting an anti-white tone that has been accepted in the media as well.  But the writer did a good job of bringing other ways of thinking as well - bringing different modern POVs into the dialog. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Pike Ludwell

[MartyQui]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:23 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I think they had two suites.   One for Nichole and Paul and one for the kids. 

Nope, that was a one bedroom suite, hence the girls sleeping on the pullout.

[letter8358]

A  warning  to travelers! Hawaii became a Covid hotspot! Expect delays for Season 2! The situation does not look too promising...

[Rickster]

40 minutes ago, letter8358 said:

A  warning  to travelers! Hawaii became a Covid hotspot! Expect delays for Season 2! The situation does not look too promising...

Apparently, season two is not necessarily set in Hawaii.

[letter8358]

1 minute ago, Rickster said:

Apparently, season two is not necessarily set in Hawaii.

Oh! Where will it be? Now I am curious....

[Rickster]

5 hours ago, letter8358 said:

Oh! Where will it be? Now I am curious....

All that has been divulged is that it will be a different cast of characters at a different resort in the White Lotus chain.

[Pike Ludwell]

Rachel and Shane were to head to Tahiti for the next leg of their honeymoon. So maybe it's set in Tahiti.

[questionfear]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:09 PM, Pike Ludwell said:

Rachel and Shane were to head to Tahiti for the next leg of their honeymoon. So maybe it's set in Tahiti.

So basically this turns into a series where Shane just murders hotel managers around the world? 

[overtherainbow]

This felt like a very one and done series. If season 2 mainly centers around Rachel and Shane I don't think I'll have it in me to watch to be honest. 

[izabella]

From what I read somewhere, it will be set at a different location of the hotel chain, with different characters.

[Milburn Stone]

10 hours ago, izabella said:

From what I read somewhere, it will be set at a different location of the hotel chain, with different characters.

Each season will be like a 6-hour episode of The Love Boat.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

Each season will be like a 6-hour episode of The Love Boat.

I don’t think White Lotus is worth ALL of the raves it’s been getting.

But it’s a world always from Love Boat or Fantasy Island in terms of script, acting, direction quality.

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

I don’t think White Lotus is worth ALL of the raves it’s been getting.

But it’s a world always from Love Boat or Fantasy Island in terms of script, acting, direction quality.

I kid because I love.

[RedInk]

On 8/20/2021 at 1:47 AM, Lois Sandborne said:

I've seen this implication everywhere, that people who dislike this show didn't "get" it or what it's trying to do. Trust me, I got it. I didn't need a neat and tidy happy ending. I needed this show not to be a plodding, superficial, six-week meditation on an old theme, with underwritten archetypes for characters and nothing new to say except "check out this mournful version of 'Aloha Oe'." If this inspired new reflections about wealth or privilege for you (the general 'You'), truly, congratulations.

I really enjoyed Enlightened. I hated this show so much I'm scared to ever go back and watch it again.

I haaated this & actually threw the remote in disgust when I finished it last night. I hated it SO much, it made me decide I don’t really ever need to visit Hawaii. Thanks, show, for ruining Hawaii. 😜

[nlkm9]

On 8/16/2021 at 3:22 AM, Traveller519 said:

I read Rachel's decision as being one out of fear as much as anything. "I can be happy" said through the most strained emotional output.

She's looking at the prospect of needing to execute a divorce from an obsessive sociopath who has just faced no consequences for killing someone she knows he had a grudge with ms she asked him to leave alone. That seems terrifying 

I was convinced from episode 1 that she was the one who died because they showed shane alone - anyone else?

[Blackie]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:23 AM, 7-Zark-7 said:

urns out the real mystery is how they got me to watch a show where nothing much happened for six episodes.

 

After the first 3 episodes I didn't think I would finish it. After the 4rd episode I decided I would finish it some day. So today was a rainy day and I watched the last 2. It was a sloooooooow build and in the end something kind of happened. All I can say is that the writing and acting were very good at depicting real people in real situations. Most shows have some bit of exaggeration at some point to make it interesting because basically real life people suck in real life, I don't know if I need to watch a show about them.

[Blackie]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:23 PM, Chaos Theory said:

On 8/18/2021 at 8:54 PM, Samsnee said:

I questioned it as well that they would all be in one suite but assuming at least 10k a night, even two rooms at that rate can be high for people who are good their  money. 

I think they had two suites.   One for Nichole and Paul and one for the kids.

 

It just dawned on me in this episode when Kitty was going on how the White Lotus was supposed to be the most "romantic"resort. So basically I think it is just for couples, so you can get a giant suite but it would only have one bedroom. That's why the kids had to sleep in the living room. And if you looked around you didn't really see other families, just couples. Kind of weird that a family would choose to go there.

[Anela]

I figured that Armand would be the one to die, but I also expected it to be because of the drugs.

I hope that Shane will be a better person. I felt so bad for Belinda, being everyone's sounding board, and then they leave, go back to what they're complaining about, and she is still stuck at the hotel. 

[smartymarty]

On 9/23/2021 at 5:14 PM, Blackie said:

After the first 3 episodes I didn't think I would finish it. After the 4rd episode I decided I would finish it some day. So today was a rainy day and I watched the last 2. It was a sloooooooow build and in the end something kind of happened.

This is how I felt (only 6 episodes? felt like 10) and that's with fast-forwarding every Jennifer Coolidge scene (OMG her whining voice!).

So the white privilege theme -- rich white family goes on vacation on land taken from indigenous people; one of those people steals from them to self-make reparations (because you know how non-white people are all criminals), goes to jail; rich white family goes home. Not an uplifting lesson.

[DrSpaceman73]

The first two to three episodes felt bad for Armond.  

By the end, nahh...screw him.  Too bad he and Shane couldn't both die. No idea why his wife returned to him. She'll be miserable.  

Binge watched over there days based on year end best of lists.  Not a bad show though not sure it qualifies as best of the year.  

Basically none of these people can escape the comfort of what they know and are familiar with despite them seeing the faults in it all and it making them miserable. 

Except Shane. He rows away.  

[tvfanatic13]

Really late to this show, but that was …something. Definitely didn’t live up to the hype in my opinion. Glad to see Lani (?) back at the end waiving to the incoming group though. 

[Chyromaniac]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:58 AM, nlkm9 said:

I was convinced from episode 1 that she was the one who died because they showed shane alone - anyone else?

Not exactly - I honestly spent the first 3-4 episodes thinking that Shane was planning on killing Rachel on their honeymoon.  Like, maybe he personally was in major debt, and had insurance on her or something.  It also made sense that he kept insisting on that particular suite, with that particular patio and pool, and what sounded like a more isolated view.

However, I also figured the reason he was so pissed in the prologue scene is that all the bs with Armond kept ruining his plan.  And then, someone else gets killed turning the place into a crime scene, and he’s missed his chance entirely.  But, once Kitty shows up and it’s clear that he would just rather spend time with her, I figured something else was up.  I wasn’t thinking Rachel was dead at that point, but that she had definitely left him.

I also just binge watched the show (and boy was that was a cheery evening…) based on 2021 best of/hidden gems hype.  I’m glad I watched it- but I didn’t know it I’m up for another round.  I do have some other thoughts though.  

On 8/19/2021 at 8:44 AM, CarpeFelis said:

I’m wondering that too. Which one is the scorpioN and which is the frog?

I’m not the OP, but I assume they meant Tanya and Belinda.  To be honest, I do feel like Belinda should have seen things coming - and even that she was, on some level, using Tanya.  But I don’t think she’s a bad person (otherwise she’d have been a more successful user), and I get why she’d feel used herself after Tanya’s payoff.  Is $20K (or whatever amount) a lot of money for humoring a human train wreck for a week?  Sure- but it’s not what she was “promised,” and nowhere close to what she’d need to start her business.  And it’s a stark reminder that Tanya never really saw her as an equal- just someone who required some sort of compensation for services rendered.  It’s not like Belinda wanted “money” anyway- she wanted to be her own boss, to be able to help more people- including other women like herself, etc…  Also- what’s a middle aged resort employee supposed to do with that much cash?  Even before the burglary/assault/drugs/murder weekend, her winding up with a fat envelope of unmarked bills is going to raise a bunch of flags.

As for why she walked out on Rachel- I assume she gave her her number on the assumption that Rachel was in some sort of imminent physical danger.  Belinda had seen at least some of Shane’s vendetta against Armond- it’s not a stretch that he could go off on his wife.  And honestly, Rachel was arguably being abused (psychologically)- but when she goes to Belinda, it just comes across as another privileged lady expecting someone else to sort out their emotional baggage.  It’s a shame because Rachel does need help- but, like, she also knows exactly what her problems are.  It’s just sad that she has to seek validation from some stranger, and unfortunate that Belinda is out of the train wreck business.

One little bit on Paula- I don’t think she has much to worry about from Kai.  If the cops have a burglar dead to rights, I kind of doubt they even care about motives, or how he accessed the safe.  He could try to implicate her, but are they really going to go after a mainlander on what- an accessory charge?  Besides, she was also a “victim” in the case, and even the texts would be easy to explain away.  She needs to carefully divest herself from Olivia- but otherwise she’s in the clear.

[lidarose9]

This was a show about privilege disguised as a comedy. The guests were all solidly narcissistic, right down the line. I found it very frustrating cuz they were all as fucked up at the end of the story as they were at the beginning. If I'd known that was the deal, I would never have started watching. Which is a shame cuz it was really well done -- except for the gross part, which should never be seen by anyone, ever. 

[shapeshifter]

I just watched this over a few days.

I foresee:

• Rachel either commits suicide or kills Shane or is killed by Shane.
  If Shane does kill Rachel, he will again walk away from it.
   
• Quinn soon realizes that there is no place for him on the island as a 16-year-old, and goes home. 

The fascinating title sequence wallpaper graphics by Lezio Lopes are like some others I've seen, but I can't figure out where.
Anyone else?

We don't see Kai again because his life is essentially over.
Since a young woman vomiting on TV = pregnancy, I assume Paula has an abortion and finishes college, but I seriously doubt she goes to law school and goes back to free Kai.

I got sucked into the show because

• I read an article about Jennifer Coolidge's Emmy nom for the show. 
   
• My parents lived in Hawaii for 30 years, and when I went back to scatter Dad's ashes it was really fraught. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by shapeshifter

[MsJamieDornan]

I just binged watched the series last night. What a trainwreck.

[nb360]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:32 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Plus, they brought out Chekhov's knife.

Are you an English major, perchance?

[amarante]

This reminded me oddly of The Great Gatsby although there is no narrator. We the audience can substitute for Nick as we observe the rich going about their monied pursuits. 

I was especially reminded of this quote from the book because there was also a similar set of escalating circumstances in the book caused by rich people oblivious to anything but their immediate desires. Obviously Gatsby was and is a masterpiece and this was just a piffle

They were careless people, Tom and Daisy- they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.” 

[jeansheridan]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:28 PM, Harvey said:

Anyway, Jennifer Coolidge is trending on twtiter, as she should. She has consistently been the best part of this show. Give her an Emmy please.

She was good on the boat ride to release her mother's ashes. Otherwise dreadful. I find her unwatchable and stale. And not funny. I dislike her voice so much too. I am bummed she is in the next series.

I hated the finale. Mike White is  so effing cynical and defeatist. Zero growth for anyone but Quinn and Quinn's run for freedom won't last. 

Also maybe he should open up his writing room and let some POC writers into his space. How he can discuss racism and colonialism and sexism and be the sole writer baffles me. This show could have soared had he collaborated. 

[jeansheridan]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:27 AM, smartymarty said:

So the white privilege theme -- rich white family goes on vacation on land taken from indigenous people; one of those people steals from them to self-make reparations (because you know how non-white people are all criminals), goes to jail; rich white family goes home. Not an uplifting lesson.

Agreed. The Kai plot sucked. We barely knew him and suddenly he  is agreeing to steal based on a plan from a girl he met three days ago? 

Mike White is a clever man and he is good at observation & diaogue. He knows rich white families in his bones. He is NOT good at creating POC characters.  Any nuance was thanks to the actors. 

If he was going to bring up colonialism and reparations he needed to give it more space and thought. Heck, The Watchmen did it with more sensitivity! Gah. I am angry.

On 8/18/2021 at 6:34 PM, MartyQui said:

So the suite they had at the FourSeasons Hawaii would be about $2500 a night in February.  Expensive, but not really rich people.  

$15,000 for a week is not rich!!! Yikes. You & I live in very different worlds. 

[izabella]

8 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Mike White is a clever man and he is good at observation & diaogue. He knows rich white families in his bones. He is NOT good at creating POC characters.  Any nuance was thanks to the actors. 

If he was going to bring up colonialism and reparations he needed to give it more space and thought.

Maybe he succeeded in showing colonialism and reparations through a rich, white lens, and that's why it felt insufficient and off.

[MartyQui]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:31 AM, jeansheridan said:

$15,000 for a week is not rich!!! Yikes. You & I live in very different worlds.

Well, millionaires, but not hundred millionaires.  Believe me, I don't spend $2500 a night on hotel rooms, haha.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

So Paula had Kai's cell phone number the entire time, but didn't text him to warn him from the boat.  This show makes me so angry for so many reasons.

I figured out it's Alec Merlino from "Survivor" playing one of the servers.

Also, not sure if anyone else noticed, the actor who played Armond played somebody who was a gay friend of Carrie's in Sex and the City for 1 episode while she was dating Aidan.  His name was Oliver.

Pretty surprised to see all of the fawning all over Rachel's character.  She was one of my least favourite.  I can't stand when people act like they're forced to get married when they 1000% are not.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:29 AM, AheadofStraight said:

So we see Paula texting Kai in this episode. Makes absolutely NO sense that she wouldn't have texted him (or even called in a panic) when the diving plans changed and Nicole went back to the room. 

Thank you.  It was so f___ing stupid.

[PurpleTentacle]

They really killed the gay guy? Seriously. When there is only one obviously gay man in the cast and he is the only one to die, I'm reminded of the unfortunate trope of kill your gays. That has gotten a lot better in recent years, but it's still a bit of a problem. Though thinking about it, maybe that was the point. That the rich white people get off scott free and the minorities get fucked yet again.

I might be a big softy, but I think if I could believe that school is really easy for him and that he could finish it online, I would have let my son stay. If I had the unlimited money these people have of course. I would have given him a talk, that he has to keep his grades up and that he can always come home if he doesn't like it anymore, that there is no shame in trying something and it not working out. He seems to be happy for the first time in a long time. So why not? Because you have to control him?

Edited December 12, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[PurpleTentacle]

On 8/16/2021 at 6:15 AM, chocolatine said:

Paula has done a lot of shitty things, but throwing the necklace into the ocean was the worst for me. One of those beautiful sea creatures is going to choke on it or get tangled up in it. Fuck her and her "wokeness." (And FWIW, I think she was throwing up because of sea sickness, not guilt.)

There is so much trash in the ocean, a bunch of shells on a fragile string is not what's going to kill those sea creatures.

On 8/16/2021 at 6:43 AM, chocolatine said:

Startup costs for a high-end spa are around $500k, much higher if it's in a prime location like Hawaii. Even if the envelope contained $100 bills, it's still a drop in the bucket. It's really just an insult, Tanya thinking that Belinda should be happy with a large tip after Tanya dangled Belinda's dream in front of her and then crushed it.

Is Hawaii even a good place for a high end spa? Sure a lot of rich people come there, but they stay in high end hotels, that have Spas on their own.

I would say to open a high end Spa you should find a place where a lot of rich people live or where they have vacation homes.

On 8/16/2021 at 2:55 PM, Empress1 said:

Both Shane and his mother are going to throw this honeymoon fight in her face whenever they get a chance, and she's going to end up throwing parties and sitting on boards that she hates, and Shane will cheat on her.

Thus is the life she has chosen.

To be honest, doesn't sound too bad in exchange for infinite money.

The only thing that sounded like crap was the prenup she talked about, that would leave her with some money, but not set for life. I hope the sum at least goes way up when he leaves her, instead of the other way around. Because he will. In 20 years at the latest.