E01.04: An Affair of Honor

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 12/25/20

Quote

Daphne receives a stunning gift from Prince Friedrich but soon courts scandal at a ball.  Eloise searches for clues to Lady Whistledown's identity. 

 

[TheOtherOne]

I was enjoying the show well enough, though it wasn't completely holding my attention, but this is the one where it got me. So much goodness. I'm all in.

- That moment when Mr. Finch came to call on Philipa might be my favorite in the whole thing thus far. It bothered me in the first episode how Berbrooke came calling and of course he had to be awkward and...not conventionally attractive to show how inappropriate he was for the beautiful people, even before he turned out to be evil. So when Finch showed up and also was not conventionally attractive, I braced myself for him to be yet another joke...but he wasn't, and he was sincere, and Philipa was genuinely happy to receive him. Sigh. I'm all about stories where somebody doesn't have to be one of the beautiful people to find love (and non-beautiful people aren't just jokes or evil).

- Penelope's heartbreak when Marina set her sights on Colin...devastating.

- The servant lady laughing in Eloise's face at the idea any servant would have time to be Lady Whistledown...perfect.

- The homoeroticism of the Benedict/Granville scenes...I haven't read the books, but I highly doubt Benedict would have been gay or bi in a series published when this one was (though I'd happily be proven wrong). So the suggestion that they might go there...yeah, I'm on board.

- Lady Featherington seemed irredeemable after the last episode, and she may well be, but I was loving the fierceness and determination in this one. And making her husband cry.

- All the big emotions in the Simon/Daphne plot...yes. To be honest, they may be my least favorite part of any of this, and were a large part of why I was losing interest the last couple episodes. The fact that I was involved and invested in their scenes says something about how well they were done here.

Edited December 26, 2020 by TheOtherOne

[Door County Cherry]

10 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

Lady Featherington seemed irredeemable after the last episode, and she may well be, but I was loving the fierceness and determination in this one. And making her husband cry.

I don't think she made her husband cry.  Her husband being found out is what made him cry.  I get Lady Featherington has done some bad things. Yet, at the same time, I have to admire the cold practicality of what she did.  The truth is, odds were pretty good that Marina's love was not coming back in time to make an "honest woman" out of her.  I'm sure we'll find out that dear George is not the jerk Lady Featherington thinks him to be but really---the odds aren't necessarily going to be in Marina's favor.  I understand why she felt she had to be a bit more cut throat to preserve the house's status.  

10 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

To be honest, they may be my least favorite part of any of this, and were a large part of why I was losing interest the last couple episodes.

I had tolerated them up until now but something about this episode just made me hate them. I don't know if it was Simon's stupid petulance.  (And I'll say more about that in later episodes, I'm sure).  Or if it was Daphne's ridiculous obsession with him that she literally couldn't take a step without seeking him out. They have some chemistry but goodness they were annoying as hell in this episode.

[bijoux]

Poor Phillipa. She and Mr Finch were having such good fun flirting about cheese. 😁 I do hope her mother manages to squeeze out some money for her dowry somewhere. 

It's hard to feel very sorry for Penelope since I'm perplexed as to what she sees in Colin. But what a bad and hilarious night Eloise had. First the housekeeper, then Penelope losing it at her. The scene with the housekeeper was chef's kiss. The way the housekeeper was having none of it, how Eloise was trying for haughty with less than zero success, just all of it. 

I am so torn about Anthony, he seems to be growing by leaps and bounds as a brother, telling Daphne he'd give the prince the chance to call on her when she was good and ready was light years away from him showing up with a batzered Berbrooke and wedding arrangements. And then there's this other fool throwing himself at Sienna that makes me want to gag. Maybe the reason Colin has no personality is that Anthony's been given two. 

[Enero]

Marina being treated like a slave on the auction block was disgusting, with the suitor who was old enough to be her grandfather asking to see her teeth, how well she dances etc.

I’m wondering if Lady Whistledown is Queen Charlotte?

That kiss, though inappropriate, was hot between Daphne and Simon. I know a duel or marriage was the only way to “solve” the “dishonor” Daphne suffered, but only she, Simon and Anthony know what happened. Couldn’t they just keep it secret? No one would ever know what happened…I take that back, apparently the unflattering Cressida saw what happened. I can appreciate Daphne attempting to take her fate into her own hands, but think this may blow up in her face. I’m extremely curious as to how this will go. 

Poor Penelope. She likes Colin, but he does not “see” her and is actually interested in Marina. What a mess the Lord Featherington has gotten his family into. Wonder how he and the Mrs will untangle the web he’s weaved.

On 12/25/2020 at 8:55 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I get Lady Featherington has done some bad things. Yet, at the same time, I have to admire the cold practicality of what she did.  The truth is, odds were pretty good that Marina's love was not coming back in time to make an "honest woman" out of her.  I'm sure we'll find out that dear George is not the jerk Lady Featherington thinks him to be but really---the odds aren't necessarily going to be in Marina's favor.  I understand why she felt she had to be a bit more cut throat to preserve the house's status.  

Agreed. What she did was horrible, but I’m not mad at her. Marina is being naive to think this guy will return before she starts showing or gives birth. So now Plan B needs to be executed to save her from ending up poor and destitute and with a baby.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Enero

[bannana]

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

[RachelKM]

1 minute ago, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

THANK YOU!  This bugged me so much. When she stormed away I was like "Lady! Grab the necklace on the way." I kept waiting for SOMEONE to notice she'd lost it.

[bannana]

I was expecting Cressida to show up wearing it!

[Mellowyellow]

7 hours ago, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

I call dibs on that necklace!!!

[Scarlett45]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:47 AM, TheOtherOne said:

- The homoeroticism of the Benedict/Granville scenes...I haven't read the books, but I highly doubt Benedict would have been gay or bi in a series published when this one was (though I'd happily be proven wrong). So the suggestion that they might go there...yeah, I'm on board.

 

I 100% thought they were going there. 

9 hours ago, RachelKM said:

THANK YOU!  This bugged me so much. When she stormed away I was like "Lady! Grab the necklace on the way." I kept waiting for SOMEONE to notice she'd lost it.

That was my Mom! “Where’s the necklace child???”

[Scarlett45]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:55 PM, Door County Cherry said:

Yet, at the same time, I have to admire the cold practicality of what she did.  The truth is, odds were pretty good that Marina's love was not coming back in time to make an "honest woman" out of her.  I'm sure we'll find out that dear George is not the jerk Lady Featherington thinks him to be but really---the odds aren't necessarily going to be in Marina's favor.  I understand why she felt she had to be a bit more cut throat to preserve the house's status.  

Yes I agree with you. If Marina’s beloved really did have honorable intentions towards her would he have left for his assignment without marrying her or at least a public betrothal?? I understand Marina is in love and young, but she needs to be practical. 

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I agree with you. If Marina’s beloved really did have honorable intentions towards her would he have left for his assignment without marrying her or at least a public betrothal?? I understand Marina is in love and young, but she needs to be practical. 

Even if he was just a dumbass who assumed they could marry when he returned, he was a soldier at war.  Best of intentions or no, he could very well have died.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Even if he was just a dumbass who assumed they could marry when he returned, he was a soldier at war.  Best of intentions or no, he could very well have died.

Yes!! He knew they had sex (likely on the regular), he would’ve wanted her to be provided for if he didn’t come back. 

[DearEvette]

It feels awfully weird and improper for this prince dude to give Daphne such a valuable gift as a necklace before they are even engaged and in front of a huge ass audience.

That scene with Marina was awful, but the subsequent scene with Simon and Lady Danbury where they explicitly talk about race and their how their role in society is because of Queen Charlotte adds some interesting subtext to it. 

Eloise's conversation with the servant was awesome. She (the servant) was great!

Simon's refusal to propose to Daphne even though he wants her and his refusal to explain why is pure romance novel.  Also it is the point in any novel where I yell at them for being stupid and for God's sake, just talk you idiot!  But I am glad he finally came through in that last scene.  That was so far the best Simon and Daphne scene since the masturbation talk scene.  Although that one was all Simon.  This was first time Daphne really worked for me.  Maybe because her stupid bangs weren't in evidence.

I loved Penelope in the books.  I am not loving her here.  There is something so very young about her that is off-putting.  She is 'out' and a little older than Eloise but the actress who plays Eloise comes off as so much more adult. Honestly Pen looks like a little girl playing dress up.

I am seeing places where in subsequent seasons the storylines might splinter off a bit from the books.  Benedict is the most obvious because the story seems to be hinting at something between him and Granville.  I would not object to that.  Ditto to possibly doing something unconventional with Eloise.  Also would not object to that.  But if they put Anthony with Sienna I'll be pissed.  Mainly because I dislike her character and how she is written and also because, dammit, his book is a good one.

I am loving Mrs. Featherington.  The actress is putting so much teeth into the character.  She is not precisely a likable person, but this is how you make an unlikable character work for the audience.

Edited December 28, 2020 by DearEvette

[Artsda]

21 hours ago, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept wondering about that too. They just left it on the wall. Nobody found it or went back for it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Artsda

[Corgi-ears]

On 12/27/2020 at 7:25 AM, bijoux said:

Poor Phillipa. She and Mr Finch were having such good fun flirting about cheese.

No one can convince me that Phillipa and Mr Finch aren't meant to be live-action Wallace and Gromit characters.

[chaifan]

I know Marina's "situation" is necessary for plot reasons, but there seem to be so many other choices on how to solve a problem like Marina.

1.  She could have been sent to a convent, either stuck there for life or at least until the child is born and put in an orphanage/adopted out.  (Most realistic solution in those times.)

2.  She could have been sent to another remote farm, kept out of sight until the child is born, put in an orphanage/adopted out.

3.  She could have been sent to any relative, or even the Featheringtons, but with the story that she was married and her husband was at war; if he returns and wants to be part of her & the child's life, great, get married in secret then; if he doesn't want anything to do with them then tell everyone he died in the war.  It's not like people could really fact check things like that back then. 

I love Benjamin & the artist, definite gay subtext going on there, not sure how it will be handled.  Maybe Benjamin can marry Marina and she can be his beard. 

Pen is sooo into Colin.  Poor girl, she's so been friend-zoned. 

[RealReality]

I was worried about this show, but changed my mind.  

Now its finally all furtive glances, brushed hands, swoons and fabulous jewels.   

Its very Jane Austen with a modern twist. 

The lead actor is so damn handsome, I can barely pay attention when he is onscreen.  

[Bill1978]

I'm currently watching the TV version of Scream on Netflix, but my god the tense scenes on that show was nothing compared to the tension and concern I felt during the duel. I was like, no one can die surely but how can the issue be solved (especially since I am viewing this show as an extended rom-com). I was on the edge of my seat and then Daphne looks like she gets shot. A fantastic piece of television. In fact this whole episode was great in terms of dropping all these threads of story. I was hooked before this episode, but this episode just solidified it. So many side plots that I am now generally attached to, which is good because while it's entertaining to watch I knew Simon and Daphne were destined to be married so a whole 8 episodes of that would get tiring. Although when they both caved and kissed one another in the garden I was did let out a woo!!!

Speaking of Simon, I watch Netflix shows with closed captions on. And I may have told the captions to show some respect when mentioning Simon, as the captions say Simon instead of Duke of Hastings. But this could have been cause by my viewing of The Madness of King George last night and it kept talking about 'Show some respect' haha.

I am a bit disappointed that Colin is showing a genuine interest in Marina, as I think him and Penelope are 'totes cute' together and I felt Pen's heartbreak. Quick question: According to protocol do Benedict and Colin have to wait for Anthony to marry before they can propose? Cause I don't really see Violet introducing potential brides to any of her sons, but Anthony.

On 12/28/2020 at 2:34 PM, DearEvette said:

Benedict is the most obvious because the story seems to be hinting at something between him and Granville.

I'm glad others are saying this because I thought maybe it was just me wanting there to be a gay brother and twisting moments to pretend there was one. The way Benedict responded in the last episode to be caught out criticising the work, felt more like embarassment for talking bad about a guy he was into then being caught out criticising the artist. He also appeared to be really not looking forward to be Lord Bridgerton if Anthony died and doing all that is required. He seemed to like the idea presented by Granville of being allowed to be your true self when you aren't the eldest. I'll be interested to see where this goes, IF it goes any where. I also find it interesting that they haven't really showed Benedict with any of the girls at the balls, like they have with Colin.

[Atlanta]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

She could have been sent to any relative, or even the Featheringtons, but with the story that she was married and her husband was at war; if he returns and wants to be part of her & the child's life, great, get married in secret then; if he doesn't want anything to do with them then tell everyone he died in the war.  It's not like people could really fact check things like that back then. 

This would have been a very logical solution rather than trap a cuckolded man. Get her a wedding ring and have the story be that they were married in the countryside or different country altogether and he died in the war.  

[iMonrey]

I kept waiting for Simon to say the reason he couldn't marry Daphne was because he was already married to someone else, no doubt some noble gesture on his part. I don't know how he would have known he couldn't father children back in 1813 unless he's impotent. I take it that isn't the reason. So does he have syphilis? 

I know this is just a dressed up soap opera, but the star-crossed lovers who aren't telling each other the real reason they can't be together and lie and pretend they don't even like each other so the other can move on with someone else is just so tedious and overdone. 

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know how he would have known he couldn't father children back in 1813 unless he's impotent. I take it that isn't the reason. So does he have syphilis? 

It's not that he can't father children, it's that he doesn't want children since he made that vow to his evil father that the Hastings line will end with him (Simon). So his statement that he can't give her children isn't that he can't physically give her children, but thaat he has no desire to have children like Daphne does.

[shapeshifter]

On 12/27/2020 at 1:02 AM, RachelKM said:

On 12/27/2020 at 12:59 AM, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

THANK YOU!  This bugged me so much. When she stormed away I was like "Lady! Grab the necklace on the way." I kept waiting for SOMEONE to notice she'd lost it.

Chekhov's necklace, no doubt. 
Especially after this episode revealed other major Chekhovain plot points from earlier episodes, namely, that Simon did Not angrily tell his father there would be no heir for spite, but rather out of anger that his father's low sperm count had been passed down to Simon.

 

 

On 12/27/2020 at 9:34 PM, DearEvette said:

Eloise's conversation with the servant was awesome. She (the servant) was great!

Which just makes me add the servant to my list of possible Lady Whistledowns.

 

 

23 hours ago, chaifan said:

there seem to be so many other choices on how to solve a problem like Marina.

Hee. {humming "How do you solve a problem like Maria...?"}

23 hours ago, chaifan said:

Maybe Benjamin can marry Marina and she can be his beard. 

I had not considered this, but it does solve the problem of her not having "been with another man" should her lover return from war and Benedict decide to come out of the closet, er, ah, have the marriage annulled. 

 

20 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I am a bit disappointed that Colin is showing a genuine interest in Marina, as I think him and Penelope are 'totes cute' together and I felt Pen's heartbreak

Since Marina does not really care for Colin, there is hope yet for him and Penn. 
We do not yet know for sure if Lady Featherington has destroyed any letters from Marina's lover, do we? 

 

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

I'm just bugged that she was able to pull the necklace off without any hook. Was that necklace held together with velcro? Also, that's a nice necklace. I'd at least return it to the Prince before commencing with a makeout session with Simon.

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I'm just bugged that she was able to pull the necklace off without any hook. Was that necklace held together with velcro? Also, that's a nice necklace. I'd at least return it to the Prince before commencing with a makeout session with Simon.

Likely (spoiler tagging in case I'm right, but it's just a guess)

Spoiler

the jilted Cressida Cowper has it and will present it to the Prince, which will make him despise her instead of re-initiating the courtship.

And, while I'm at it:

Spoiler

Perhaps Marina will die in childbirth and then Daphne and Simon will raise the baby as their own.

 

 

Wouldn't the old guy who was courting Marina have soon died anyway, given the times? And wouldn't he also have been long past having sex, also given the pre-Viagra times?
In an Austen novel, likely Marina would have married him without much ado, he would have died, her lover would have returned, and he would have gladly married her for her new wealth --which would have left her in a loveless marriage, because Austen would not have rewarded a woman who got pregnant out of wedlock --likely because such a story would not have been published in her time.

Edited December 31, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Haleth]

On 12/30/2020 at 11:52 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wouldn't the old guy who was courting Marina have soon died anyway, given the times? And wouldn't he also have been long past having sex, also given the pre-Viagra times?

I kept yelling at Marina to marry the old guy because he’d die soon an leave her a wealthy widow who could do as she pleased. 

I found the whole duel a bit contrived.  It would have been easy for Daphne, Simon, and Anthony to deny anything happened in the garden between D & S.  Everyone knows Cressida was jealous of Daphne re the Prince's attentions; the trio could bush off her gossip as jealousy.  But I guess lying would be dishonorable so I guess a death is better than telling a lie.  Men, sheesh.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Haleth

[nodorothyparker]

That necklace was a seriously costumey looking piece of jewelry. Ignoring how wildly inappropriate it would have been for a man to publicly give that to a woman he wasn't even officially engaged to, I was fully expecting it to turn up in somebody's hands before the end as proof of something nefarious after Daphne just left it there.

I don't know yet if they're going for the second brother and the artiste ending up as a couple, but there's been some serious gay subtext in their scenes from the beginning even if Granville briefly claimed to have a wife when they first met. All that talk about the freedom of second sons to do what they want and finding themselves has to be going somewhere.

Everybody racing out to the country for the big duel was a standard romance novel cliche, but I enjoyed it anyway. Still not convinced Simon and Daphne are quite the hot couple the show wants me to believe they are, but I like that Daphne is trying to exert some control over her life by choosing what she thinks will be a childless marriage with the man she wants in a time when that would have unthinkable instead of dutifully marrying the higher ranked man because that's what everyone would expect.  We already know Daphne is unschooled enough in all matters of sexuality, so Simon's probably safe in assuming that it won't occur to her to question that can't have children doesn't necessarily mean "can't" as opposed to "doesn't want to."  You could feel her frustration with her brothers when they shut the door in her face that they were in there discussing what was to be done about her without her even being part of the conversation. 

Really liked the Simon-Lady Danbury talk about Queen Charlotte opening doors for them and his concern that they could just as easily fall out of favor. I've been wondering if or how they were going to address the color issue and this felt very natural without being exposition heavy. 

If Lord Featherington has really gambled away the girls' dowries, he's really fucked them over. 

[Avabelle]

Simon claiming he can’t give Daphne children feels like a weak roadblock unless it’s a physical condition preventing him. Otherwise I assume he’ll change his mind as soon as he allows himself to be happy with Daphne. 

[Growsonwalls]

I'm really glad Daphne realizes how stupid dueling is. That is all. She might be a simpering well-bred girl but that bit of common sense wins her brownie points.

[dbell1]

I watched 4 episodes last night. Started with one to try it out and next thing I knew it was 2 am. 🤣 Was texting a coworker for hours about it, she’s on episode 3.

I loved Polly Walker in Rome, so any chance to see her on my screen is awesome. Love the colorful clothes, even if the family resembles a flock of fluorescent parrots at times. Little Penelope is my favorite. Sweet, smart, and stuck in yellow, she steals every scene for me. I want to bop Colin on the head for ignoring her, but his hair would protect him.

I hate Eloise. The hair, the hats, the clothes, the EYEBROWS, the voice of an 80 year old man. There’s no way she’s 15, I think she was replaced as an infant with a troll. I totally get the character, but the actress, hard pass.

Daphne and her tragic bangs annoy me. Was hoping she’d get shot in that duel scene. Generic Kiera Knightly. Simon, love. Lady Danbury, LOVE. She’s amazing. Badass character and actress.

The necklace getting left behind was annoying too. Guess Daph needs pockets in those ethereal frocks. 

[gutbuster]

5 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I want to bop Colin on the head for ignoring her, but his hair would protect him.

I hate Eloise. The hair, the hats, the clothes, the EYEBROWS, the voice of an 80 year old man. There’s no way she’s 15, I think she was replaced as an infant with a troll. I totally get the character, but the actress, hard pass.

dbell1 I wish I had someone like you to text with while I watched, lol!

Colin's hair is distractingly huge. I didn't have the trouble that so many others had in telling the eldest Bridgeton boys apart, but if I did, Colin would be Bobble-head hair, Benedict would be Bed-head hair, and Anthony would be Sexy-hair.

Totally agree about Eloise. I'm so glad I'm not alone. After bingeing the first five episodes, I was disheartened when I first started reading the comments to find that once again, the character everyone seemed to love was the one I could not stand the most.

 

[dbell1]

4 hours ago, gutbuster said:

dbell1 I wish I had someone like you to text with while I watched, lol!

Colin's hair is distractingly huge. I didn't have the trouble that so many others had in telling the eldest Bridgeton boys apart, but if I did, Colin would be Bobble-head hair, Benedict would be Bed-head hair, and Anthony would be Sexy-hair.

Totally agree about Eloise. I'm so glad I'm not alone. After bingeing the first five episodes, I was disheartened when I first started reading the comments to find that once again, the character everyone seemed to love was the one I could not stand the most.

 

Join me in my Eloise dislike, I’ve got snacks and snark. 😅 Someday others will join us. 

[shapeshifter]

On 12/27/2020 at 1:30 PM, Scarlett45 said:

On 12/27/2020 at 12:10 PM, RachelKM said:

Even if he was just a dumbass who assumed they could marry when he returned, he was a soldier at war.  Best of intentions or no, he could very well have died.

Yes!! He knew they had sex (likely on the regular), he would’ve wanted her to be provided for if he didn’t come back. 

Marina likely didn’t know she was pregnant when George went to fight in a war at a time when dying of any wound was common. Would he have thought she had better marital prospects as an unmarried young woman than as a widow? 
Also, sometimes men were gone to war for many years. George might have thought it unfair to leave her alone married at an age when she might make a more financially advantageous match with someone who was also going to be there to “give” her children. 
Of course, even if George had such “noble” ideas, it doesn’t mean he didn’t also not want to be tied down. 

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Marina likely didn’t know she was pregnant when George went to fight in a war at a time when dying of any wound was common. Would he have thought she had better marital prospects as an unmarried young woman than as a widow? 
Also, sometimes men were gone to war for many years. George might have thought it unfair to leave her alone married at an age when she might make a more financially advantageous match with someone who was also going to be there to “give” her children. 
Of course, even if George had such “noble” ideas, it doesn’t mean he didn’t also not want to be tied down. 

George let Marina down.  Even if she did not know she was pregnant when  he left to fight Napoleon, he knew that was a possibility.  He also was fighting in the British Army.  An army where wives did travel with them.  He would not be abandoning Marina when she could join him to an extent.  Most likely he was an officer, and officer wives were not on the front lines but nearby.  She would have been in the company of other officers' wives and George would visit when he could.  Even the wives of regular infantry travelled with the army.  They were of a lower social class and would work as laundresses and cooks for the army.  They would also tend to the sick who could not fight.  So George had options to make Marina an honest women, but he chose not to.

[iluvobx]

On 12/27/2020 at 11:03 PM, Artsda said:

I kept wondering about that too. They just left it on the wall. Nobody found it or went back for it.

Thing is, when she and Anthony went by it going back into the ball, it was not there.  I looked and looked again.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, iluvobx said:

On 12/27/2020 at 10:03 PM, Artsda said:

I kept wondering about that too. They just left it on the wall. Nobody found it or went back for it.

Thing is, when she and Anthony went by it going back into the ball, it was not there.  I looked and looked again.

I'm betting Cressida has it. 😉

[Maya]

I thought the garden make out scene was hot! I was like, finally!! Simon is stubborn and annoying though. I liked Daphne better this episode. 

[quarks]

On 1/4/2021 at 4:09 AM, shapeshifter said:

Marina likely didn’t know she was pregnant when George went to fight in a war at a time when dying of any wound was common. Would he have thought she had better marital prospects as an unmarried young woman than as a widow? 
Also, sometimes men were gone to war for many years. George might have thought it unfair to leave her alone married at an age when she might make a more financially advantageous match with someone who was also going to be there to “give” her children. 
Of course, even if George had such “noble” ideas, it doesn’t mean he didn’t also not want to be tied down. 

I don't think she knew she was pregnant. But I also don't think that lets George off the hook at all. He absolutely should have married her. As others have pointed out, she could have followed him to the front (some wives did.) And as his widow, she could have claimed some of his personal property and might have had some claim to income from his estate - income she would lose after any remarriage, but still, income. (Mary Shelley couldn't take advantage of this for years because her husband had never inherited the estate, so until his father died, she and her son were kinda financially stuck - but once Shelley Sr died, Mary Shelley and her son were considerably more comfortable.) 

And widows could always remarry, and often did. I think she would have had an easier time as a respectable widow than as a single mother (or suspected single mother, if she gave the kid up for adoption or passed the kid off as a distant relative of some kind) finding a second husband.

And at the very least, George could have clued in his relatives just a little bit. Anthony goes to the effort of ensuring that Benedict knows about/will financially take of Siena shortly before the duel. Granted, my sense was that Siena had no money of her own beyond what she was earning as an opera singer and what various men were willing to give her, while Marina comes from a family that at least had enough money to lend to the Fs, so it's not quite the same, but it also doesn't speak that well of George, who I continue to regard as the main villain of this subplot. 

[Maya]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:50 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Really liked the Simon-Lady Danbury talk about Queen Charlotte opening doors for them and his concern that they could just as easily fall out of favor. I've been wondering if or how they were going to address the color issue and this felt very natural without being exposition heavy. 

This was confusing. Was she implying that racism was still a problem prior to Queen Charlotte’s marriage? That’s pretty recent as far as history goes. Even with her positive actions, is that enough time to change everyone’s world view to the point that racism is basically nonexistent now? 

[nodorothyparker]

 

3 hours ago, Maya said:

Was she implying that racism was still a problem prior to Queen Charlotte’s marriage? That’s pretty recent as far as history goes. Even with her positive actions, is that enough time to change everyone’s world view to the point that racism is basically nonexistent now? 

They really didn't give us a lot to go on, did they? Without going back and rewatching the scene to be certain, I remember taking from it that there had apparently been some sort of small black (possibly unofficial) aristocracy but it was more of a separate but equal thing that wasn't part of the court like it is now until King George met and married Charlotte. So yeah, pretty recent, which also goes some way in maybe explaining why Simon's father was so obsessed with his dukedom if it was so recently acquired and having the "perfect" heir to pass it onto. It's obviously enough so that Simon has at least considered that they could just as easily fall out of fashion and be pushed out.

As far as whether that's really enough to make racism a nonexistent thing in so short a time, in this version of events it almost seems like we're supposed to think so.

[WatchrTina]

On 12/30/2020 at 12:11 AM, RealReality said:

The lead actor is so damn handsome, I can barely pay attention when he is onscreen.  

This!  A thousand times this!  I keep saying "My GOD he's good-looking" (out loud, all alone in my socially distant living room.)  And I'm old enough to be his mother.  That said . . . damn.

So . . . did he just hint to Daphne that the reason he can't marry her is that he can't father children?  If so, how would he know?  Oh!  Is he impotent?  If so that is just TRAGIC.  But no . . . I think we saw him consorting with a prostitute, didn't we?  So I'm guessing it's something else.  Is he secretly married already?  if so that would contradict comments he's made, including the declaration to his dying father that he would never marry and their family line would end with him.  Oh wait . . . is THAT it?  He feels bound by that declaration?  He can never marry because he wants to spite his dead father and have their line die out?  Well if THAT'S why he won't marry Daphne then I say good riddance to bad rubbish because that is STUPID and I hate stupid characters.  (Hmmmm, suddenly he's a little less attractive.)

Edited January 6, 2021 by WatchrTina

[tennisgurl]

I am really glad that I wasn't the only one picking up some vibes between Benedict and his artist friend, especially the "you can be yourself here" part where his friend was touching his shoulder a bit. Its possible Benedict didnt catch it, but I am pretty sure that his friend was hitting on him, or at least feeling him out to see if he might be interested. 

Such drama with these boys. Running off to have stupid duels, holding onto this also stupid last Hasting vow, just ridiculousness. I am glad that Daphne at least called them out and as melodramatic as her riding through the woods to stop the duel, it was nice to see her take some control of her life back. I also loved Colin's reaction when he came home. "Good God did someone die?" 

Poor Penelope clearly has a crush on Colin, but has been put into the Regency friendzone and now has to watch her cousin try to make a move on him. Its too bad he doesent seem to see her that way, they have quite cute banter and seem to be pretty similar in personality. Really, Mariana should go for the rich guy. She can get married, have the baby without scandal, then he probably wont live a very long time after and she would be a wealthy widow who could marry someone more to her liking. Poor Philippa as well, she finally had a chance at a good match with Mr. Finch, who might not be the most dashing of men, but seems quite nice and they seemed to hit it off right away, but now its ruined because of her fathers gambling debts. The aristocratic rules of the time were just so bizarre. You cant get a job (except maybe military officer or something as a second of third son) but gambling away your families money is totally fine as long as you don't lose too much...which you often could. 

Waiting for the return of Chekov's necklace. 

[smartymarty]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:52 PM, WatchrTina said:

The lead actor is so damn handsome, I can barely pay attention when he is onscreen.  

Does he remind anyone else of Tiger Woods in his prime?

[TV Diva Queen]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:10 PM, smartymarty said:

Does he remind anyone else of Tiger Woods in his prime?

no.  LOL  

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, no. Not to looks shame or anything but Tiger Woods was never that handsome, even in his prime. 

[SoWindsor]

I know we’ve decided Daphne looks like Keira Knightly but she also looks like a combination of Sansa and Danerys from Game of Thrones.

[Umbelina]

On 12/31/2020 at 7:50 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Really liked the Simon-Lady Danbury talk about Queen Charlotte opening doors for them and his concern that they could just as easily fall out of favor. I've been wondering if or how they were going to address the color issue and this felt very natural without being exposition heavy. 

I seriously hated that they had to explain the racial situation.  I wish they'd left it out completely.

Sure, I was curious at first, but then, by this episode, I was just going with it, as an amazing world where racism and skin color judgements and discrimination had simply never existed.  Kind of a "this is how it should have been forever, so we aren't going to explain it away, since it has nothing to do with the story we are telling."

I'm not saying this well at all, but relaxing into the idea that the world had always been this way?  Was an amazing feel good treat for me.  That explanation, while completely inadequate, also spoiled the whole thing.  Obviously, just because the King said so would have not changed eons of prejudice that fast.  I preferred enjoying the idea that the idiotic idea of color of skin had EVER being important.

It was lovely.

On 12/26/2020 at 10:59 PM, bannana said:

Wait, nothing about the necklace that Daphne ripped off her neck and left on the stone wall before she went and got all almost defiled and shamed?

I kept waiting for someone to ask about it or show up with it.

That drove me just as crazy as the scene in The Crown when an important box was left behind.

WHY do writers or directors or editors DO THAT?

Edited January 15, 2021 by Umbelina
clarified

[shoetingstar]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:34 PM, DearEvette said:

It feels awfully weird and improper for this prince dude to give Daphne such a valuable gift as a necklace before they are even engaged and in front of a huge ass audience.

That scene with Marina was awful, but the subsequent scene with Simon and Lady Danbury where they explicitly talk about race and their how their role in society is because of Queen Charlotte adds some interesting subtext to it. 

Eloise's conversation with the servant was awesome. She (the servant) was great!

Simon's refusal to propose to Daphne even though he wants her and his refusal to explain why is pure romance novel.  Also it is the point in any novel where I yell at them for being stupid and for God's sake, just talk you idiot!  But I am glad he finally came through in that last scene.  That was so far the best Simon and Daphne scene since the masturbation talk scene.  Although that one was all Simon.  This was first time Daphne really worked for me.  Maybe because her stupid bangs weren't in evidence.

I loved Penelope in the books.  I am not loving her here.  There is something so very young about her that is off-putting.  She is 'out' and a little older than Eloise but the actress who plays Eloise comes off as so much more adult. Honestly Pen looks like a little girl playing dress up.

I am seeing places where in subsequent seasons the storylines might splinter off a bit from the books.  Benedict is the most obvious because the story seems to be hinting at something between him and Granville.  I would not object to that.  Ditto to possibly doing something unconventional with Eloise.  Also would not object to that.  But if they put Anthony with Sienna I'll be pissed.  Mainly because I dislike her character and how she is written and also because, dammit, his book is a good one.

I am loving Mrs. Featherington.  The actress is putting so much teeth into the character.  She is not precisely a likable person, but this is how you make an unlikable character work for the audience.

 

On 1/5/2021 at 12:17 PM, Maya said:

This was confusing. Was she implying that racism was still a problem prior to Queen Charlotte’s marriage? That’s pretty recent as far as history goes. Even with her positive actions, is that enough time to change everyone’s world view to the point that racism is basically nonexistent now? 

 

On 1/14/2021 at 7:50 PM, Umbelina said:

I seriously hated that they had to explain the racial situation.  I wish they'd left it out completely.

Sure, I was curious at first, but then, by this episode, I was just going with it, as an amazing world where racism and skin color judgements and discrimination had simply never existed.  Kind of a "this is how it should have been forever, so we aren't going to explain it away, since it has nothing to do with the story we are telling."

I'm not saying this well at all, but relaxing into the idea that the world had always been this way?  Was an amazing feel good treat for me.  That explanation, while completely inadequate, also spoiled the whole thing.  Obviously, just because the King said so would have not changed eons of prejudice that fast.  I preferred enjoying the idea that the idiotic idea of color of skin had EVER being important.

It was lovely.

That drove me just as crazy as the scene in The Crown when an important box was left behind.

WHY do writers or directors or editors DO THAT?

I agree with @Umbelina!! I also wish they had NOT said anything about race whatsoever. It was like they congratulated themselves on their wokeness. My favorite version of Cinderella from the 90s was produced by Whitney Houston. It is the Fairy Godmother of "Color-Blind casting". It starred the charming African American singer Brandy in all her braided-hair glory. The prince was Filipino. His Parents were Whoopi Goldberg and Victor Garber. The Evil Stepmother was Bernadette Peters, the step-sister were white and black. These differences were not even discussed.. They were just allowed to BE. 

The committed viewers have been marinating in this world the creators built.  Mentioning it seems like they lack confidence in the show or that the audience would "get it".  Like, "Hey guys! We totally know black people are treated differently in the real world." I mean, if you want to get REAL and historical, the ladies would have more body hair,  the teeth would be worse, and there wouldn't be any manicures (I'm assuming?).

On 12/29/2020 at 10:40 PM, chaifan said:

I know Marina's "situation" is necessary for plot reasons, but there seem to be so many other choices on how to solve a problem like Marina.

1.  She could have been sent to a convent, either stuck there for life or at least until the child is born and put in an orphanage/adopted out.  (Most realistic solution in those times.)

2.  She could have been sent to another remote farm, kept out of sight until the child is born, put in an orphanage/adopted out.

3.  She could have been sent to any relative, or even the Featheringtons, but with the story that she was married and her husband was at war; if he returns and wants to be part of her & the child's life, great, get married in secret then; if he doesn't want anything to do with them then tell everyone he died in the war.  It's not like people could really fact check things like that back then. 

I love Benjamin & the artist, definite gay subtext going on there, not sure how it will be handled.  Maybe Benjamin can marry Marina and she can be his beard. 

Pen is sooo into Colin.  Poor girl, she's so been friend-zoned. 

GREAT point! I guess Lord Featherington was putting all his energy into keeping the lid on his secrets, his brain didn't even think of those options! lol

The lovely couple got on my nerves in the episode! Also over Brother Bridgerton and his Sad Singer. 

The Duke, when I was a child I thought like a child...You have to get over the Vow you made to your Evil dying Father. Think about what you were want and what would make you happy?! Let it go, as Elsa would say! Being happy is the best Revenge!

 

[DearEvette]

I think the Charlotte/race thing is interesting in what they attempted to do.  But I don't think it was entirely successful.  I am also in the camp that I wish the show was just colorblind.  The showrunner acknowledged that the show exists in an alternate universe very deliberately, so it would have been nice if they had really gone all the way and simply decided that that alternate universe fully embraced multi-racial society as no big thing.

Another thing I find interesting is that in my very unscientific, anecdotal observation is that almost everyone who mentions that convo seems to be unsatisfied  about it, but not for the same reasons.  Some people just wish it hadn't happened and that race was not an issue.  Others wish the show had done more and explained the society and how POC were able rise to that level. Like I said I am in the camp that wish it hadn't happened. 

31 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

They were just allowed to BE. 

Exactly.  It is just nice 'to be' and not belabor everything.  I got into a little debate with someone on twitter and I said , you know black people don't stand around all the time and talk about our black state of being amongst ourselves. 

[Umbelina]

I expect family groups to look like one another, at least a bit, so yes, I would have been thrown by say, just one of the 8 Bridgeton kids being black.  So, it's not exactly "colorblind" I wanted.  I just wanted color to never have mattered, not that I expected to have two black parents have a blue eyed blond daughter and a son who looked Japanese.  

It was the world I wanted colorblind, not the show.