S02.E18: Pilot Lights and Sister Fights

[Pallas]

Too late or not too late? -- Dan and Louise; Darlene and a new child.

Good news/bad news -- Ben helps Becky.

 

[Keywestclubkid]

They really have made Becky much funnier... 

[Keywestclubkid]

that was a much better episode then last weeks. The writing on this show is so uneven... 

[Balboa]

Darlene wanting to bring a baby into this world in her current situation, is completely irresponsible.

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

They really have made Becky much funnier... 

I loved her "I'm gonna eat the baby!" rant :D. Also liked Ben's reaction to the idea of having sex with Emilio. 

Still agree with the general sentiment that Darlene does not need to have a baby right now (if ever), for a whole host of reasons. If Ben really wants a family with her, he's got a ready-made one in Darlene, Harris, and Mark. 

Yay for Dan and Louise moving forward :)! I feel for him with his struggle to take off his ring, though...that would be tough, for sure. 

[ams1001]

Darlene has no business trying to have a kid while she's living with her dad (and her kids, who have to share a room already, and her sister, and her baby...and does Ben live there, too, now?) If they're going to try to have a family together, they should have their own place. And, you know, be able to actually support themselves and the kids they already have.

I did laugh at the conversation at the end about how Ben might have to go to Mexico and sleep with Emilio. "He's smokin' hot, I'll go pack my bags right now!"

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I hope Ben and Darlene get over their baby fever and end up not having/not being able to have a baby. I feel bad for Mark too since we saw last episode that he can be overlooked. A baby will not help with that. I did like this exchange though:

Ben: "We have to stay positive."

Darlene: "Great, I just have to change my entire personality."

I don't know why it was so funny but I really laughed when Darlene told Becky that she was "brushing her hair like a mermaid" in front of Ben.

I also liked "I didn't try to kill you, I just called you a whore. You can get your own whipped cream."

And Dan telling Louise that he loved her and Louise saying well, it's no good if I tell you to say it. Ha!

Woo, that kiss!

 

[Keywestclubkid]

7 minutes ago, Balboa said:

Darlene wanting to bring a baby into this world in her current situation, is completely irresponsible.

Can you imagine?  Poor mark would be even more invisible to his mother then he already is. 

[Browncoat]

This show has enough babies already.

 

[UYI]

OH MY FUCK ENOUGH WITH THE BABY SHIT, DARLENE.
 

*ahem*

Ben can coo and cuddle with baby Bev, that's enough.

Darlene had some funny lines, but overall I kind of want Becky to kill her right now. She is awful and when she isn't saying one of her one-liners I just want her GONE. I have never hoped for infertility more in my life. (I'm totally onboard with Ben and Becky as BFFs, though.) 

Seeing Jackie and Dan talk about him finally removing his wedding ring was truly the highlight of the show for me (besides Becky in general that is). THIS is the Jackie I know and love.

After how Louise told Dan off about dragging his feet for so long, I'm curious whether him kissing her is going to be enough for her to change her mind. It sounds like whatever she had with that other guy isn't at all serious, but she was right to be annoyed with Dan in the beginning. 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by UYI

[opus]

Didn’t Ben just shave recently?

[Bronzedog]

Ben with Becky is more believable than Ben and Darlene.  Ben and Darlene have zero chemistry.

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

 Harris dropping some funny lines this ep, and some advice to her mother, “adopt one,don’t drop one”

I liked that line, too, but I can't imagine any adoption agency giving Darlene a kid in her current situation.

[Bastet]

I don't know, I've hung in there with a lot of stupid decisions from these characters because I understood why - between institutional barriers, limited personal experience, and human fallibility - they were making them, but if Darlene's attempt to have another fucking kid against every iota of logic and responsibility on this and any other planet succeeds, I think I'm out.

This is ridiculous!  "What the hell, woman?" indeed.  If they stay together, Ben can be stepfather and uncle to the umpteen children that already exist in this family.  You know, the ones this whole damn village can barely provide for as it is.

I am so enraged by the utter stupidity of this, I can't properly appreciate the rest of the episode. 

But I do love sleep-deprived Becky.  And she has a nice dynamic with Ben (that Darlene irrationally cannot handle because she's an absolutely horrible person in recent episodes), and Drunk!Dan with the bandmate was a nice scene. 

Jackie and Dan were terrific; for her to be the one to encourage him to take off his wedding ring is really something. 

The Becky/Darlene dynamic is always a plus.  And Ben's response to the suggestion he head off to Mexico to have sex with Emilio makes it hard for me to remember I used to not like him.

But I spent way too much time tonight thinking "I can't with this shit" because of this stupid-ass "I want a baby" (for, reasons?) storyline.

Why is Ben always at the Conner house?  Doesn't he still have his own crappy place to hang out in?  Why is he always spending the night at Darlene's, who lives with a million people, rather than her staying with him?  If he's yet another loser living under Dan's mortgaged roof rent-free, that's a pretty big thing not to mention.

Louise was out of line saying Dan was stringing her along; he's been honest from jump about not being ready.  He was never obligated to go at her pace; his obligation was to be honest, and then she decides whether to wait or move on; no one is wrong either way.  Let's not rewrite history to create drama.

But I liked her telling him this sending a message through someone else is high school bullshit and him saying, "the last time I did anything like this, I was in high school!"  And "that must have been hard" being her first reaction to him taking his ring off went a ways toward bringing her back to the Louise I liked so much before she offered to skip the tour for him and launched into this revisionist history of their relationship (to be fair to her, the writers have imposed that last one on a whole bunch of characters).

So if Darlene - please, TV gods - doesn't get pregnant (and realizes that's for the best as a bonus), and I re-watch this one secure in that knowledge, I'll probably like it; it was a good episode otherwise.

But until then, holy hell, this:

2 hours ago, UYI said:

OH MY FUCK ENOUGH WITH THE BABY SHIT, DARLENE.

 

[Linderhill]

20 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Louise was out of line saying Dan was stringing her along; he's been honest from jump about not being ready.  He was never obligated to go at her pace; his obligation was to be honest, and then she decides whether to wait or move on; no one is wrong either way.  Let's not rewrite history to create drama.

But I liked her telling him this sending a message through someone else is high school bullshit and him saying, "the last time I did anything like this, I was in high school!"  And "that must have been hard" being her first reaction to him taking his ring off went a ways toward bringing her back to the Louise I liked so much before she offered to skip the tour for him and launched into this revisionist history of their relationship (to be fair to her, the writers have imposed that last one on a whole bunch of characters).

This exactly.  Why should Dan be instantly ready for a new relationship after his wife of 30 plus years suddenly dies?  yes, he hung around with her a lot but that in no way is a promise of a relationship.  My sister was widowed after 25+ years and she still wears her wedding ring and has no interest in a new relationship.  On the other hand, a friend's father whose wife died after 50+ years of marriage was dating within a year.  

As for the Darlene and Ben and that stupid baby storyline, as much as I dislike it, there always has to be some ridiculous, impractical storyline on this show. (i.e., Becky wanting to be a surrogate mother, Becky having a baby with a one night stand, Becky and Jackie starting a restaurant with no money, etc.)

[Bastet]

27 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

My sister was widowed after 25+ years and she still wears her wedding ring and has no interest in a new relationship.  On the other hand, a friend's father whose wife died after 50+ years of marriage was dating within a year.  

And that gender disparity is very common; widowed men are significantly more likely to move into another serious relationship, and quickly, than widowed women.  Dan - a) having lost the woman he'd been with since he was sixteen years old (and b, unexpectedly which is also a natural and thus statistical factor), c) to whom he was contentedly married, not just still with out of inertia, and d) surrounded daily by his extended family rather than living alone - was the perfect candidate to be one of the exceptions who took longer to be ready. 

I've greatly appreciated seeing that time frame play out, and I resent this "he lead her on/they broke up/oh, that timid scoundrel Dan finally manning up" retcon.  And I don't understand the trepidation behind it -- I don't think the writers need to falsely prop up Louise to get the audience on board with Dan dating; I think most are open to this relationship progressing into romance, precisely because of its natural trajectory.

[bamlou]

2 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

and Jackie in this ep is the Jackie I missed instead of whacky Jackie we get valuable advice Jackie.

THIS so much! The writing and acting choices Laurie Metcalf made in this scene were in such stark contrast to how Jackie has been portrayed for most of this series that I did a double take and smiled, like seeing an old friend I thought I'd never see again. It's good to know that Laurie can still pull out the old, saner, more grounded Jackie when the show lets her.

Every now and then the show does something right, which is why I keep coming back despite my grievances about it's broader tone and the inconsistent writing. This was a better week than last, hopefully next week the season ends on a high note.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't know, I've hung in there with a lot of stupid decisions from these characters because I understood why - between institutional barriers, limited personal experience, and human fallibility - they were making them, but if Darlene's attempt to have another fucking kid against every iota of logic and responsibility on this and any other planet succeeds, I think I'm out.

Even though I agree with you 10,000% I somehow don't think I'll stop watching this show anytime soon.  Even though I rarely watched the original series, I know and have liked almost all of these actors from other places and miss the other shows they were on, so for me it's a link to the past.  At this point I'm in it for that and the great one liners.  I think it will bother me more if Ben and Darlene do actually have a baby and still live in the house.  I guess I'm still hopeful that all of this will blow over in time and either Darlene won't be able to conceive or they'll come to their senses.  If not, I might change my mind.

[Aulty]

Darlene and her Blake Shelton lookalike are a cute couple, but Ben's scenes with Becky and Beverly-Rose are a lot warmer and funnier.

Can we get a few Ben/Mark/DJ scenes - they are all so different but with a similar type of humor, so it should play out well?

[mojoween]

Maybe porn guy will come through with some ad dollars and Ben and Darlene will start making actual money.

When Jackie was talking to Dan in the garage I was distracted by the shovel hanging on the wall behind her.  WHY WAS THAT SHOVEL SO BIG.

[ams1001]

Was Dan in the garage when Ben was fixing the water heater? Or was that later? If so, why didn't they get Dan to fix it, since Ben knew he had a meeting to get to? 

Ben doesn't seem all that interested in actually doing the work to get this magazine thing off the ground.

[Racj82]

I get what people keep saying about Ben already having a ready made family with Darlene but I'm sorry, it's not the same thing.

A lot of people want to raise their own child. Birth and grow their child from the beginning. 

Going from I want a baby to oh well, there are already kids around is not the same thing.

For a host of reasons, they shouldn't do this and don't need this. Darlene already had kids is not one of them. Not on Ben's side. It should be for Darlene. She has raised one kid to near adult and another teenage one. Having babies like decade or so apart always seems crazy to me but with her age at well. Just let it go.

[HeySandyStrange]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I get what people keep saying about Ben already having a ready made family with Darlene but I'm sorry, it's not the same thing.

A lot of people want to raise their own child. Birth and grow their child from the beginning. 

Going from I want a baby to oh well, there are already kids around is not the same thing.

For a host of reasons, they shouldn't do this and don't need this. Darlene already had kids is not one of them. Not on Ben's side. It should be for Darlene. She has raised one kid to near adult and another teenage one. Having babies like decade or so apart always seems crazy to me but with her age at well. Just let it go.

Yeah, I agree. If someone wants a bio kid, no amount of stepchildren, nieces and nephews, and friend's kids is going to fill that space. So I completely understand Ben wanting his own kid. But realistically, Darlene should realize she doesn't want more kids, especially at her age and with the situation she's in, and Ben and her should probably break up. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by HeySandyStrange

[mojoween]

55 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Was Dan in the garage when Ben was fixing the water heater? Or was that later? If so, why didn't they get Dan to fix it, since Ben knew he had a meeting to get to? 

Ben doesn't seem all that interested in actually doing the work to get this magazine thing off the ground.

I don’t think Dan was back from Springfield yet when Becky was trying to shower.

[MissLucas]

I understand Ben wanting to have a (biological) kid but Darlene is in no position (economically, physically and I would add emotionally) to have another kid. Kids are the ultimate deal-breaker, you can't compromise on having kids and yet sitcoms always go there.

And just like Darlene Ben is currently without regular income yet he skips an important meeting to get that godforsaken magazine going. Also not a good look. Is this thing even a viable business option? Isn't Darlene wasting her supposed talents? Why has she not embraced new media - with her talent for quips (when the writers feel like writing her smart) she could have a podcast or run a blog. I know from experience that it's not easy to make a living from writing but a mugshot magazine really doesn't sound like much of a money-maker either. (And having read upon what the industry is actually about it seems that it's not very reputable either.)

Edited April 15, 2020 by MissLucas

[CrystalBlue]

I'm glad someone else (Aulty) thinks Ben is a Blake Shelton lookalike.  And yes, that's one fast-growing beard.

Ben and Darlene should break up.  Darlene should sue David for child support, move to Chicago and get a real job, take Harris and Mark with her after she gets her own apartment or house to rent, and leave Ben with Becky and Beverly Rose.  The show would be much better without awful, horrible Darlene.

Louise, Dan didn't string you along.  You just got tired of waiting (understandably).  Zach doesn't love you, you're just a convenient lay while the band tours.  Time to get off the road.

I loved Jackie this episode and Becky the Mermaid was the highlight!

[janie jones]

16 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't know why it was so funny but I really laughed when Darlene told Becky that she was "brushing her hair like a mermaid" in front of Ben.

That was the best part of the episode.

It's unfathomable to me that not only are Ben and Darlene planning to have kids, but actually trying to have kids given the living situation.

[rmontro]

It was nice to see Paul Hipp portraying Zach on the show.  He played Reverend Tim-Tom on The Middle.

Other than that, not much to add to what has already been said.  Agree that Ben and Darlene having a baby is a terrible idea, for both of them.  Who's next on the baby train, Dan and Louise?

[Snow Apple]

When I read the description, I thought it would be about Ben realizing a baby is too hard in their current situation and drop it, at least for now. I guess it hasn't really hit because there's a house full of people taking care of little Bev, and Dan will clean up the mess of repair screw ups. Are they expecting to live with Dan with yet another baby? What's the breaking point for Dan? 

The writers must have realized we all hated Harris because they've toned her down. It wasn't pleasant watching such a hostile and disrespectful character. I don't mind her as much in the past few episodes.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Snow Apple

[iMonrey]

Quote

OH MY FUCK ENOUGH WITH THE BABY SHIT, DARLENE.

What an enormous difference between Darlene's story, which grows increasingly awful, to Dan's story, which has become increasingly poignant. Are there two different writers for these stories? One misses the mark completely and the other one nails it.

We've discussed this before but it bears repeating, I think. Whoever writes this show doesn't really understand what it's like to be without money. The very fact that they have Darlene pursuing a pregnancy in her current economic state shows that. Nobody has any money, but everyone has their basic needs met, so why not have a baby? I can think of a thousand reasons off the top of my head, but the writers simply do not see it.

[MarthaEllisanne]

Run, Ben, run! Run far; run fast.  Dan, move in with Louise and get away from toxic Darlene's mess.  Force the kids to make a living and pay their own bills (assuming pre-COVID-19).

[rmontro]

59 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I guess it hasn't really hit because there's a house full of people taking care of little Bev, and Dan will clean up the mess of repair screw ups. Are they expecting to live with Dan with yet another baby? What's the breaking point for Dan? 

Or what if something happens to Dan?  They might inherit the house, but are they going to be able to pay the bills?  I could see Becky becoming the matriarch.

 

23 minutes ago, MarthaEllisanne said:

Run, Ben, run! Run far; run fast. 

I can't hold Ben blameless in all this.  He's the one who put this into Darlene's head, after all.  It was his idea in the first place.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Or what if something happens to Dan?  They might inherit the house, but are they going to be able to pay the bills?  I could see Becky becoming the matriarch.

Doesn't that house have like three mortgages?

[mythoughtis]

It’s a ridiculous story line.   Get the $&@) out of Dans’ house and get jobs before you even think about a baby.  Darlene was never this stupid as a teenager. 
 

Louise is growing on me. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by mythoughtis

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

We've discussed this before but it bears repeating, I think. Whoever writes this show doesn't really understand what it's like to be without money. The very fact that they have Darlene pursuing a pregnancy in her current economic state shows that. Nobody has any money, but everyone has their basic needs met, so why not have a baby? I can think of a thousand reasons off the top of my head, but the writers simply do not see it.

I don't think the problem is that the writers don't understand what it is like to be without money. The whole premise of the show is a family that is always struggling. In fact Dan now has two of his three kids and their kids living in his house because they cannot afford to live on their own. The writers are showing a family who continually makes bad choices. My problem is that it is not entertaining. As a poster wrote, Darlene wasn't this stupid as a teenager. I thought Ben started off as a promising character, but he has now become just another person who makes bad decisions and appears to have little interest in making good ones. I wonder how Louise will deal with the family, given that she already told Dan that he was (to paraphrase) too easy on his kids to let them all live with him. BTW, does Dan even know of Darlene and Ben's plan? 

I might add that I know plenty of people who cannot afford to have kids, but have them anyway. And keep having them. I worked with a woman whose husband didn't work, they lived in the basement of his retired parents' home (which was in a gated seniors community) and had three children during the time they lived there. The parents finally kicked them out, at which time they split up because they were both cheating on each other. Lots of stupid people in this world making bad decision after bad decision. I just don't find it entertaining, IRL or on my TV. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The writers are showing a family who continually makes bad choices. 

Yes but they are not doing that deliberately. They are not attempting to show us the pitfalls of people who make bad economic choices in life. That is not their agenda nor their intention. The show is supposed to be about blue-collar, middle America wage earners struggling to get by. They are supposed to be struggling because of the economy. The show is supposed to be about how hard it is to get by for most Americans. 

This isn't a case where the writers sat down and said "Let's show how dumb Darlene is for trying to have a kid even though she has no money and has to live with her father along with her two children." 

This is a case where the writers are so tone-deaf they simply do not understand how irresponsible and selfish this makes Darlene look. They are coming from a place where it's just a common trope when some guy gets baby fever and women swoon over it. And that wanting a baby always supersedes rational thought because "Awwwww, babies!" It's the oldest formula in the sitcom handbook. 

It just doesn't work for this show or for this character, and the writers don't seem to get that. The only character who has expressed disapproval of this is Harris and that's only based on her concern for population control in general, not because her mother can ill afford a baby right now. That shows me with some degree of certainly the writers don't understand how the characters are coming across. Otherwise we'd have some voice of reason in the mix, and we don't. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by iMonrey

[Snow Apple]

It's ok to live with your parents/grandparents as long as you contribute to the bills and chores. I just don't see this here. Maybe Mark helps off screen but that's it.

[willowk]

I haven't seen the show much this season, so was shocked by the whole Darlene wants a baby storyline. She just hasn't been that kind of women, and she has 2 kids already. Understand why Ben wants one, of course. Darlene was my least favorite character last night. Actually I haven't connected to her much since Roseanne died, somehow Darlene seemed less cynical with Roseanne around.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The show is supposed to be about blue-collar, middle America wage earners struggling to get by. They are supposed to be struggling because of the economy. The show is supposed to be about how hard it is to get by for most Americans.

Agreed but one would hope average Americans are not this stupid.

[bobby2018]

Darlene bugs me since Roseanne era. So, I think the writers are doing a good job keep this character consistent.  

[tessaray]

The show really screwed up by showing me how cute a couple Ben and Becky could be. But then, I've never seen any chemistry between Darlene and anyone except David. (Not saying they should ever get back together though.) 

I don't believe Darlene really, really wants a baby.  It feels like she's avoiding age related issues and her perfectly valid suspicion that Ben wanting a baby could be a relationship killer.  

[lexiexx]

Darlene in the first season of the reboot was a lot more reserved and had seemed more mature.  Now she’s just a nasty bitch.  Like Harris but more shriveled.  Ben and Becky are good together.   There is zero basis for the relationship between Ben and Darlene.   Why would we want to see Darlene have a kid now when she can’t even support the two she already has.  Mark didn’t get what he wanted for Christmas, almost couldn’t go to coding camp, they have no room for another baby in dans house and don’t even have their own place.   It’s inexplicable why Ben wants to tolerate darlenes nonsense in general, what planet are these writers on.   Darlene is a nut, caused that huge fight with Jackie and went up one side of Becky and down the other and all Ben says is I want tiny psychotic babies with you ?  Tf?  What happened to first season Ben?

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yes but they are not doing that deliberately. They are not attempting to show us the pitfalls of people who make bad economic choices in life. That is not their agenda nor their intention. The show is supposed to be about blue-collar, middle America wage earners struggling to get by. They are supposed to be struggling because of the economy. The show is supposed to be about how hard it is to get by for most Americans. 

This isn't a case where the writers sat down and said "Let's show how dumb Darlene is for trying to have a kid even though she has no money and has to live with her father along with her two children." 

This is a case where the writers are so tone-deaf they simply do not understand how irresponsible and selfish this makes Darlene look. They are coming from a place where it's just a common trope when some guy gets baby fever and women swoon over it. And that wanting a baby always supersedes rational thought because "Awwwww, babies!" It's the oldest formula in the sitcom handbook. 

It just doesn't work for this show or for this character, and the writers don't seem to get that. The only character who has expressed disapproval of this is Harris and that's only based on her concern for population control in general, not because her mother can ill afford a baby right now. That shows me with some degree of certainly the writers don't understand how the characters are coming across. Otherwise we'd have some voice of reason in the mix, and we don't. 

I think we are basically saying the same thing. You wrote in your first post that the writers didn't understand what not having money was like, otherwise they would not write this drivel about Darlene and Ben wanting a baby despite having no real jobs and Darlene and her kids living with Dan. I wrote that the writers show a family continually making bad decisions. Which is not entertaining in the least. 

I totally, 100 percent agree with what I have bolded of your last post. The writers are tone deaf that this storyline is not entertaining, and in fact is lazy writing. Many of us have written posts in previous episode threads that the whole storyline is insulting. The idea that women of any and all ages want a baby, no matter their circumstances, that they may already have children, their age, etc. It isn't true to real life (though there are certainly people who irresponsibly have children) and it is an insult to the viewers that the writers cannot come up with anything more original. 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by UsernameFatigue

[BeachDays]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

The show really screwed up by showing me how cute a couple Ben and Becky could be. But then, I've never seen any chemistry between Darlene and anyone except David. (Not saying they should ever get back together though.) 

I really think they messed up here-  I agree, she doesn’t seem to have chemistry with any romantic interest except David, and that’s probably due to how fond/comfortable the actors are of each other.  I know Johnny was on BBT and probably didn’t want another series, but I’m still scratching my head at what they did with these characters.  Ben is a good character and the actor is funny but there is no chemistry there at all.  Hell she has better chemistry with DJ.  

They have made Harris a more likeable character, I think they next need to work on Darlene.   I remember when the reboot first happened (with Roseanne) and I was surprised at how sweet she was, but still sharp and funny.   I miss that version of the character.  

Edited April 16, 2020 by BeachDays

[chitowngirl]

I honestly thought we’d be seeing more of David since Johnny isn’t tied down to TBBT.

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yes but they are not doing that deliberately. They are not attempting to show us the pitfalls of people who make bad economic choices in life. That is not their agenda nor their intention. The show is supposed to be about blue-collar, middle America wage earners struggling to get by. They are supposed to be struggling because of the economy. The show is supposed to be about how hard it is to get by for most Americans. 

This isn't a case where the writers sat down and said "Let's show how dumb Darlene is for trying to have a kid even though she has no money and has to live with her father along with her two children." 

This is a case where the writers are so tone-deaf they simply do not understand how irresponsible and selfish this makes Darlene look. They are coming from a place where it's just a common trope when some guy gets baby fever and women swoon over it. And that wanting a baby always supersedes rational thought because "Awwwww, babies!" It's the oldest formula in the sitcom handbook. 

It just doesn't work for this show or for this character, and the writers don't seem to get that. The only character who has expressed disapproval of this is Harris and that's only based on her concern for population control in general, not because her mother can ill afford a baby right now. That shows me with some degree of certainly the writers don't understand how the characters are coming across. Otherwise we'd have some voice of reason in the mix, and we don't. 

I agree with you 100%, plus as someone who doesn't really have any long term history with these characters, I'm not buying them as struggling blue color workers let alone struggling blue color workers with no common sense.  The way the actors play their characters and the way the show writes them makes them seem like they are more sophisticated and have more common sense than to have certain aspirations or get themselves into certain predicaments.  I don't look at any of them and think, "Well, there they go again, but what do we expect?"  (Like I do with some dysfunctional friends/acquaintances in real life).  With some exceptions (like Becky to some extent) they all act like salts of the earth with seat-of-their pants common sense, not people driven by the oldest sitcom formula of irresponsibility in the book.  And that is also one big reason that baby trope isn't working for me.  I think the producer/writers want to put them up as noble working class salts of the earth that only struggle because of their circumstances, but then when they make them make such poor choices it actually looks like an insult to the real people that the show is supposed to be based upon.

[Lovecat]

19 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Agreed but one would hope average Americans are not this stupid.

One would hope...and then one would interact with average Americans and have one's hopes dashed 😉

[janie jones]

18 hours ago, tessaray said:

I don't believe Darlene really, really wants a baby.  It feels like she's avoiding age related issues and her perfectly valid suspicion that Ben wanting a baby could be a relationship killer.  

Maybe Darlene doesn't have the guts to let relationships end.  Otherwise she wouldn't have been on and off with David for decades and she wouldn't be attempting to do almost the exact same thing she ridiculed Becky for doing in the reboot.  (To be honest, I don't actually think that this attempt to hold onto Ben is meant as characterization; I think writers aren't think about that at all.)

13 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I honestly thought we’d be seeing more of David since Johnny isn’t tied down to TBBT.

I don't know what the harm would have been in having a legitimate reason for Darlene and David to be physically apart so that they could just still be together, and Johnny Galecki could have joined the cast after TBBT if they wanted, or just continued as a guest.  I got the impression that that's what the actors wanted.

[BeachDays]

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

I don't know what the harm would have been in having a legitimate reason for Darlene and David to be physically apart so that they could just still be together, and Johnny Galecki could have joined the cast after TBBT if they wanted, or just continued as a guest.  I got the impression that that's what the actors wanted.

This.   I know it would be semi far fetched to be like “David is working in a different city/state/country and sending money over” but not nearly as far fetched as “whenever David is on the show we have great chemistry and work together beautifully (remember the episode where Mark was caught kissing a boy), but otherwise he lives 5 minutes away and is a terrible neglectful parent”.  

Are they even officially divorced yet???

Darlene wanting another baby will forever be the weirdest thing to me.   No.  Just no.   

[joanne3482]

3 hours ago, BeachDays said:

This.   I know it would be semi far fetched to be like “David is working in a different city/state/country and sending money over” but not nearly as far fetched as “whenever David is on the show we have great chemistry and work together beautifully (remember the episode where Mark was caught kissing a boy), but otherwise he lives 5 minutes away and is a terrible neglectful parent”.

They do it successfully for DJ's wife. She's in the military this completely makes sense. I can't remember what David ended up as his career in the original version, but I do vaguely remember he liked art and illustrating comic books. He could be out peddling his books to get them into stores and attending comic conventions to get his books into the hands of the people.  They stay struggling because he's not been picked up by a major distributor. Darlene is supporting his art. He comes home to visit periodically. The kids love him. He draws Mark into one of his books. This is all possible. 

Should we be getting a change.org petition going? "No babies for Darlene!" 😄

Edited April 16, 2020 by joanne3482