S04.E12: A Hell of a Week: Part Two

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, Chanandler Bong said:

Excited to finally see what happened with Kate and her bad news ex-BF next week. Also, if Kate is “in trouble” as Rebecca says, do they really need to go 20 minutes out of their way to pick up Randall?? Kate’s marriage is certainly going downhill fast. I’m sorry, but are these people even trying? They’re having issues, so...it’s over??

 

Kate and Toby have never been on the same page since their first date.  They got married way too fast after his heart attack, and tried for a baby months after getting married.  Kate undergoes in vitro even though she is not a good candidate, almost dies during her procedure, and then has a premature baby.  Kate and Toby have gone through a lot in the year or so they have been married.  Then you have Toby going off of his medications without consulting Kate.  He goes into a depressive state and has to restart them.  It can take months for him to get back to where he was before.  Not to mention, him having to introduce new meds into his regimen because the other ones may have stopped working.  Then Toby decides he needs to start working out.  Another thing he decides to keep from Kate.  He starts confiding with his gym buddies one of them being a woman who has some feelings for Toby.  All of this is going on while Kate is at home with Jack.  And then to top it all off, Toby tells Kate he is having trouble connecting with their disabled son.  Toby is wallowing in his own sadness that the son he has imagined is not the son he actually has.  It's no wonder Kate and Toby are at their breaking point.

[abc123baby]

Ok. I don't know what is happening with teen Kate, but neither do any of the Pearsons. Something maybe wrong, but no one KNOWS anything is wrong. Rebecca tells Kevin something to the effect of "I feel something is wrong". does she even know where to look for Kate, pre-cell phones?  And since they don't know anything is wrong, but she fells she has to look for Kate, why is it necessary to go 20 minutes out of her way to pick up Randall? To do what? It's stupid. 

[Jillybean]

I forgot to mention, I really want to try a Fresecco. And my Kroger carries Fresca!

[3 is enough]

Did Sophie go on the trip with her mom?  They never talked about it after she walked out.  I was expecting her to say she regretted not going  or that she was so glad she did go when she was with Kevin, but ...nothing.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, JKL845 said:

But that didn't happen. The whole thing with the ring was in this episode for a reason...to keep the possibilities open. 

Right, I see that now and added to Kevin's speech about finally being ready to be a good husband to Sophie?  I agree it seems like we're going there.

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I noticed this week that the actress playing teen Sophie resembles Madison a lot at certain angles.

Yes! And in a show that has done such a phenomenal  job of casting young actors who look like their older version, I didn't think teen Sophie looked a thing like grown Sophie.  The mouth size and face shape was almost opposite.

3 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Had I been in that therapy session now, I would have pointed out that it's not the child's responsibility to give up college/life opportunities for a fully functional parent.

I've always thought Rebecca was so selfish in allowing Randall to give up his dream college for her. If she had told him that what she needed most was to get a job and get used to single life, even if she was lying, it would have ultimately been good for both of them.

I like Madison and would be interested in how she would handle pregnancy but I'm afraid that if she was to get pregnant so soon after breaking up with the other boyfriend there would be a whole  story line of Kevin thinking he was the father and then finding out he wasn't.  That's always just too sad and too soapy to me.

[ShadowFacts]

21 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes! And in a show that has done such a phenomenal  job of casting young actors who look like their older version, I didn't think teen Sophie looked a thing like grown Sophie.  The mouth size and face shape was almost opposite.

I think they've done the best with teen Kate and Beth, and Vietnam-era and older Nicky; the rest are less believable in looks but have the mannerisms down.

21 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I like Madison and would be interested in how she would handle pregnancy but I'm afraid that if she was to get pregnant so soon after breaking up with the other boyfriend there would be a whole  story line of Kevin thinking he was the father and then finding out he wasn't.  That's always just too sad and too soapy to me.

I hope not, too. Oddly, I've known of three men this happened to, and that's just the ones that became (semi) public, so maybe it does happen quite a bit.

[Quiet1]

With this show you just never know. They love their drama. For all we know at the beginning of next season Kevin could lose the baby. Rebecca lost a baby, Kate lost a baby so now maybe Kevin does. They break up and we get another whole season of who is the mother of Kevin's future son!

[MoonMountain]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes! And in a show that has done such a phenomenal  job of casting young actors who look like their older version, I didn't think teen Sophie looked a thing like grown Sophie.  The mouth size and face shape was almost opposite.

My thoughts exactly! They couldn't possibly have found a young blonde actress that resembled grown Sophie just a bit more? 

My husband was shocked to find out the actress who plays young Beth isn't grown Beth's actual daughter in real life, LOL. 

I didn't necessarily think Kevin was feeling bad or sad about the actual hookup with Madison...but he had just run to Kate's house from a few emotional days with his now-engaged ex-wife, going to the spot where he learned of his dad's passing, plus, Madison is Kate's friend and he and Kate are so close. Likely a lot of complicated feelings there that don't have to include regret about Madison specifically. 

We'll see...Madison could likely end up as his pregnant fiancee, but not all engagements lead to marriage. So who knows if she will ever become his wife. 

It could still be Sophie too, there was a lot of focus put on that ring. I could also see Sophie's discovery of the emerald ring as a moment of her saying goodbye to her mom AND to Kevin. 

I doubt this would happen, but what if Sophie gets pregnant with Grant's baby, but ends up engaged to Kevin? Unlikely, but not impossible, and would make for some interesting episodes.

 

On a personal note, since this was a Kevin episode, I am a bartender in LA and Justin Hartley and his (future ex-) wife sat at my bar on July 4. I was SUPER cranky that day about having to go to work, as I forgot to request the holiday off and was bummed I didn't get to spend it with my family. We were so busy, and finally in the late afternoon, we had a bit of a lull and I was thankful to have a moment to catch my breath. I went to the restroom, and when I came back I saw a couple standing at the bar, and thought, "Ugghhhh. Okay, back to work, here we go again..." Turned out to be Justin Hartley and his wife. He was LOVELY and stupid good-looking. He had me create a special cocktail for him, and bought a round of beers for the entire bar (and one for me, but I wasn't allowed to drink it until after my shift). At one point, he and his wife were fighting about something, and it was a little awkward because it was a small bar and I could pretty much hear everything. And of course we all know how that turned out. But he really made my day and I was thrilled to have met him. Funny enough, he is one of my "hall passes", but alas, I did not receive a private John Legend concert! I did enjoy my beer though 🙂

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by MoonMountain
verbiage /spelling

[ams1001]

Watching now...I did not fully appreciate from the bits we saw in Part One just how freakin' adorable toddler Kevin is.

I really hate 18yo Kevin's hair.

I have a Dunkin Donuts gift card from Christmas and this episode is going to lead me to use it on my way to work tomorrow...

I feel like teen Sophie looks almost too old for the age she's supposed to be..

Edited January 29, 2020 by ams1001

[MoonMountain]

14 minutes ago, MoonMountain said:

My thoughts exactly! They couldn't possibly have found a young blonde actress that resembled grown Sophie just a bit more? 

My husband was shocked to find out the actress who plays young Beth isn't grown Beth's actual daughter in real life, LOL. 

I didn't necessarily think Kevin was feeling bad or sad about the actual hookup with Madison...but he had just run to Kate's house from a few emotional days with his now-engaged ex-wife, going to the spot where he learned of his dad's passing, plus, Madison is Kate's friend and he and Kate are so close. Likely a lot of complicated feelings there that don't have to include regret about Madison specifically. 

We'll see...Madison could likely end up as his pregnant fiancee, but not all engagements lead to marriage. So who knows if she will ever become his wife. 

It could still be Sophie too, there was a lot of focus put on that ring. I could also see Sophie's discovery of the emerald ring as a moment of her saying goodbye to her mom AND to Kevin. 

I doubt this would happen, but what if Sophie gets pregnant with Grant's baby, but ends up engaged to Kevin? Unlikely, but not impossible, and would make for some interesting episodes.

 

On a personal note, since this was a Kevin episode, I am a bartender in LA and Justin Hartley and his (future ex-) wife sat at my bar on July 4. I was SUPER cranky that day about having to go to work, as I forgot to request the holiday off and was bummed I didn't get to spend it with my family. We were so busy, and finally in the late afternoon, we had a bit of a lull and I was thankful to have a moment to catch my breath. I went to the restroom, and when I came back I saw a couple standing at the bar, and thought, "Ugghhhh. Okay, back to work, here we go again..." Turned out to be Justin Hartley and his wife. He was LOVELY and stupid good-looking. He had me create a special cocktail for him, and bought a round of beers for the entire bar (and one for me, but I wasn't allowed to drink it until after my shift). At one point, he and his wife were fighting about something, and it was a little awkward because it was a small bar and I could pretty much hear everything. And of course we all know how that turned out. But he really made my day and I was thrilled to have met him. Funny enough, he is one of my "hall passes", but alas, I did not receive a private John Legend concert! I did enjoy my beer though 🙂

 

Oops -- Can this be deleted?? I meant to hit edit on this, but pushed the quote button instead. Sorry!

Edited January 29, 2020 by MoonMountain

[marceline]

This episode bored me senseless. I know viewers have wildly differing opinions of the characters and stories and I like that. For me, stories about Kevin's love life are an automatic snooze. I don't care whether it's Sophie or Sloane or Zoe (although I did like Kevin/Zoe in Vietnam) but "Who is Kevin Screwing Right Now?" doesn't interest me. In fact I'm tired of it. He fell into bed with Madison after being let down by Hall Pass Honey and before that there was his misadventure with Cassidy.

I'm done watching Kevin bone every damaged woman he bumps into.

[Artsda]

Loved that episode!

[funnygirl]

I really don't want Madison to be Kev's future fiancee/baby mama. 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by funnygirl

[buckboard]

11 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Ita!  Rebecca bugs me when she overlooks Kevin.  She cant bother to watch Kevin's TV appearance but she can take care of Randall's "Undies".  No wonder Kevin was always craving attention, and he did get it from Sophie's Mom. 

While I agree that Kevin often got overlooked by his parents, I also think Rebecca gets criticized too often about that.  

She works and couldn't see the show live.  Kevin told her his lines were cut.  She assumed - wrongly as it turned out - that "my lines were cut" meant that he wasn't going to be in the show, so there was no need to tape the show.  I would have thought the same thing.  It wasn't a matter of her not being bothered to watch.

 

[hookedontv]

Kevin always has been my favorite (kinda dreading the Kate episode next week) and I really loved this episode. Like some others have said, Justin’s acting was spot on for me and very touching. My very best friend passed away suddenly a few years ago and I find myself thinking about my life in 2 parts: “Before” and “After” she passed. I think about that morning before I found her, how ordinary the day was and what I wouldn’t give to get it back and be blissfully unaware of what I was about to learn. 
 

Completely random comment: When Sophie was looking through her mom’s box at the end, did anyone else notice how giant her thumbs looked? I actually rewatched a few seconds. Maybe it was the camera angle but whoa. 

[maggiemae]

23 hours ago, reallyjustjen said:

So Kate and baby Jack went to the family retreat, while Toby stayed behind?  Yikes.

I am another who thought they were intending to show us that the Kevin and Sophie chapter is closed now.  To me, K&S finally viewing the ending of Good Will Hunting after all this time, and extinguishing of all the “possible endings” that had been floating between them for years, was the show’s way of trying to tell us that.  
 

Have we ever figured out why Jack had what appeared to be a graveside service, but was cremated?

 

[maggiemae]

My father was cremated and has a grave site at a National Cemetery. No need to be on the mantle or spread or in a Mausoleum.

[memememe76]

Sophie’s parents divorced, right? I think around the Preteen Big 3’s ages. I suspect we will still see Westfeldt during those flashbacks. I can see one big flashback when we see Kevin and Sophie’s dissolution of their marriage and the mom lashes out at Kevin.

I love the idea of Sophie as Rebecca’s nurse.

The Good Will Hunting game was well developed. You start having no clue what they were talking about, and then by the end, you totally get it. And I hated that movie. 

[Alexander Pope]

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Zoe is my favorite of Kevin's love interests. They absolutely should not be together (again: incompatible) now, but I liked their relationship when they were in it.

I was today years old when I found out that the actress who plays Madison is married to the show creator. You'd think he'd encourage the writers to write Kate so that she treats Madison with a little more respect.

Didn't Zoe dump Kevin?  or am I misremembering?

[Aloeonatable]

16 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

This episode bored the ever livin' crap out of me. 

Alexandra Breckenridge's character Sophie is tediously dull.   Breckenridge was far better in the role of Jessie on TWD.   I even felt bad when Jessie was eaten by walkers.

At the end of this episode of This is Us, if I was supposed to care about what happens to Kate, I don't.   As an adult her marriage is falling apart and at the end of this episode they flash back to younger Kate when she has some other drama going on.   I don't mean to make light of any of this, but the big three can be incredibly exhausting to watch. 

 

I was bored too, fell asleep, and I love this show! 

[chocolatine]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I've always thought Rebecca was so selfish in allowing Randall to give up his dream college for her.

Randall's original plan was to defer Howard for a year to stay close to Rebecca, and going to  college in Pittsburgh was the only way he agreed to go to college at all. Of course, Rebecca could have fought harder and insisted he go to Howard that year, but she wasn't the one who had taken him on the tour - it was Jack - so she never really understood what it would have meant to him to go to a historically black college. Randall ended up going to CMU, which is one of the highest-rated schools in the country, so she probably didn't think he would be missing out on anything.

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Howard that year, but she wasn't the one who had taken him on the tour - it was Jack - so she never really understood what it would have meant to him to go to a historically black college.

Isn't it safe to assume that they both came home from that trip talking about it, Jack would have told Rebecca about the conversation and what that school meant to Randall, and Randall would have continued to talk about it all year?   I think it would also be safe to assume that when Kevin said, "Days cut my lines, he would have gone on to say, "but at least I'll still be in it." Or that Rebecca said, "Oh no, what a disappointment!" and then he would have said his face would be in it. Even if we have to go strictly and only by what we see, then Rebecca didn't seem very upset after she found out she missed it, and as usual, didn't pick up on Kevin's hurt feelings.

I don't blame parents for mistakes and moments when they say the wrong thing, like Jack's words to Randall last week, but when it's a pattern of behavior over the child's entire life then I call a little bad parenting there.  Rebecca never seemed very interested in Kevin's career.  Throughout the decades of the show Rebecca always seems to me to have a sense of entitlement, soaking up her children's and both husbands' total devotion while never  giving back quite as much as she gets.

[Euphony]

It's really interesting how people pick up different moments as signs and metaphors and draw quite different conclusions about the shows direction. I, personally,  thought the conversation with M Night was a really on the nose pro-Sophie metaphor. Kevin argued that the original end felt like resolution but M. Night told him that it was not what the audience really wanted.

Anyway, I think Madison is a rebound fling (for both). I do not think she is right for Kevin at all and they have a long way to go if they want to sell me otherwise. She does not have a developed enough sense of self at the moment. Kevin struggles to much with his own sense of self, it would fall apart quickly if he had to prop her up long term.

[ShadowFacts]

29 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Isn't it safe to assume that they both came home from that trip talking about it, Jack would have told Rebecca about the conversation and what that school meant to Randall, and Randall would have continued to talk about it all year?   I think it would also be safe to assume that when Kevin said, "Days cut my lines, he would have gone on to say, "but at least I'll still be in it." Or that Rebecca said, "Oh no, what a disappointment!" and then he would have said his face would be in it. Even if we have to go strictly and only by what we see, then Rebecca didn't seem very upset after she found out she missed it, and as usual, didn't pick up on Kevin's hurt feelings.

I don't blame parents for mistakes and moments when they say the wrong thing, like Jack's words to Randall last week, but when it's a pattern of behavior over the child's entire life then I call a little bad parenting there.  Rebecca never seemed very interested in Kevin's career.  Throughout the decades of the show Rebecca always seems to me to have a sense of entitlement, soaking up her children's and both husbands' total devotion while never  giving back quite as much as she gets.

I think in this episode they took pains to show Rebecca's missteps to contrast with Clare's adoration of Kevin.  Rebecca is rack drying Randall's underwear but rushing off to work when Kevin wants to get her reaction to his first TV appearance.  Rebecca immediately threw out Kevin's beloved lamb mobile without thinking about if he would miss it.  (I would have kept the mobile for a little while, but I'm sentimental like that).  It would have been better if she had lamented missing the Days episode a little more, asked how she could see it later, etc. but they wanted to make the point that Kevin got more adoration from his girlfriend's mother than from his own.  A little bit anvilicious for me.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, maggiemae said:

My father was cremated and has a grave site at a National Cemetery. No need to be on the mantle or spread or in a Mausoleum.

My paternal grandparents were both cremated and they’re buried in the same plot. One on top of the other.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, maggiemae said:

My father was cremated and has a grave site at a National Cemetery. No need to be on the mantle or spread or in a Mausoleum.

 

15 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

My paternal grandparents were both cremated and they’re buried in the same plot. One on top of the other.

Yes plenty of people have graveside services who were cremated and then interred.  What I think the other poster meant to ask was why Jack had a graveside services if Kate has his ashes.  Or at least she did back in season one.  Jack has no physical grave, why have the unnecessary ceremony?  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Isn't it safe to assume that they both came home from that trip talking about it, Jack would have told Rebecca about the conversation and what that school meant to Randall, and Randall would have continued to talk about it all year?   I think it would also be safe to assume that when Kevin said, "Days cut my lines, he would have gone on to say, "but at least I'll still be in it." Or that Rebecca said, "Oh no, what a disappointment!" and then he would have said his face would be in it. Even if we have to go strictly and only by what we see, then Rebecca didn't seem very upset after she found out she missed it, and as usual, didn't pick up on Kevin's hurt feelings.

I don't blame parents for mistakes and moments when they say the wrong thing, like Jack's words to Randall last week, but when it's a pattern of behavior over the child's entire life then I call a little bad parenting there.  Rebecca never seemed very interested in Kevin's career.  Throughout the decades of the show Rebecca always seems to me to have a sense of entitlement, soaking up her children's and both husbands' total devotion while never  giving back quite as much as she gets.

Yeah, we really hold parents to impossibly high standards and I do not think the Days of Our Lives thing was intentionally cruel. 

However, the fact that your son is a big star on a popular TV show and you don't seem to give a shit is really weird. The one time she went to the taping, she was so obsessed with Kate's singing gig (which Kate totally did not want her to attend) to even stay for five minutes.

If MY SON, was a TV star, I would be sooooo proud of him. Acting is an extremely competitive field and success is very difficult, particularly if you are not well connected.

I think the dynamic probably started because Jack always thought that Rebecca was too good for him and definitely married "down" by the standard of her family. He kind of does worship her and tries to "prove" himself worthy of her. Those grand romantic gestures were signs of insecurity as well as love.

I do totally agree with you that it is easy to be hard on Rebecca. This was a woman that did not want children and then was stuck raising three at once. No one is going to be perfect and she really is not a bad person.

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Yeah, we really hold parents to impossibly high standards and I do not think the Days of Our Lives thing was intentionally cruel. 

However, the fact that your son is a big star on a popular TV show and you don't seem to give a shit is really weird. The one time she went to the taping, she was so obsessed with Kate's singing gig (which Kate totally did not want her to attend) to even stay for five minutes.

If MY SON, was a TV star, I would be sooooo proud of him. Acting is an extremely competitive field and success is very difficult, particularly if you are not well connected.

I think the dynamic probably started because Jack always thought that Rebecca was too good for him and definitely married "down" by the standard of her family. He kind of does worship her and tries to "prove" himself worthy of her. Those grand romantic gestures were signs of insecurity as well as love.

I do totally agree with you that it is easy to be hard on Rebecca. This was a woman that did not want children and then was stuck raising three at once. No one is going to be perfect and she really is not a bad person.

I do wish the writers would explore why Rebecca never traveled to California to see Kevin excel in his career.  They dropped that bomb on us back in season one and then forgot about it.  I keep on waiting for a flashback to show us what happened.  I will never understand why Kevin and Kate had to always be the ones traveling to see their mother.  If it is because of Rebecca's marriage to Miguel, then show us.  

[Scout Finch]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:49 PM, KaveDweller said:

They could show Kevin sleeping with a different woman every week and not tell us who is the mother until next season.

"This Is How I Met Your Mother."

[PRgal]

28 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do wish the writers would explore why Rebecca never traveled to California to see Kevin excel in his career.  They dropped that bomb on us back in season one and then forgot about it.  I keep on waiting for a flashback to show us what happened.  I will never understand why Kevin and Kate had to always be the ones traveling to see their mother.  If it is because of Rebecca's marriage to Miguel, then show us.  

I wonder if Rebecca had some issues with Kevin becoming an actor or maybe something that goes back to the whole Days thing.  Something worth exploring.  

[TV Diva Queen]

If Joey Tribiani can figure out how to be on "Days" from the east coast, Kevin can too.

[Janie430]

So my best take on Rebecca's long-term dismissal of Kevin and his work is that it's a bit of jealousy.

Once Rebecca had to go to work in an office, she seems to have shut down her creative side for several years.  I would think that it might be that she was feeling a bit stupid for trying to have a part-time singing career for so many years, and not having done anything practical, and now she was 48 years old and being an entry-level clerk.  And she didn't even really try to go for being a performer when she was in her twenties - not seriously. She could have gone to LA, or New York, but chose not to do the work.

And here's Kevin, her least favorite kid, who's going out to live her dream of being a big performer.  He's the one who moved to New York and is trying to make it as a teen, and the one who headed out to LA to try and make it in his mid-twenties.  He's doing the work she didn't.

Also, has she even seen him act when he was in his teens?  Maybe there's a bit of singer looking down on the actor's talent.

[theatremouse]

Absolutely nothing in this episode surprised me, which is unfortunate given this is a show that basically lives and dies by how impressed it is at its own twists. You know the idea that every script/story can be shorter? There's the 2 hour version and the one hour and the half hour etc keep slicing it til you've got one sentence? Part 2 didn't need to be there. It didn't tell me anything I didn't presume from having seen Part 1. Did I know exactly what Sophie's mom said and did and meant to Kevin? Nope, but I could've guessed given stuff we already knew. Did I know exactly the Good Will Hunting story? No, but it also didn't give me any new insight into these characters. NONE of this needed to be there. Seems like Part 3 will involve something actually new with Kate, but I'm not really interested in that storyline and my main point is: the show seems impressed with itself doing the "week" from each of the 3's perspective, but it already feels drawn out. This did not need to be 3 episodes. It's like they're stalling.

[qtpye]

16 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

So my best take on Rebecca's long-term dismissal of Kevin and his work is that it's a bit of jealousy.

Once Rebecca had to go to work in an office, she seems to have shut down her creative side for several years.  I would think that it might be that she was feeling a bit stupid for trying to have a part-time singing career for so many years, and not having done anything practical, and now she was 48 years old and being an entry-level clerk.  And she didn't even really try to go for being a performer when she was in her twenties - not seriously. She could have gone to LA, or New York, but chose not to do the work.

And here's Kevin, her least favorite kid, who's going out to live her dream of being a big performer.  He's the one who moved to New York and is trying to make it as a teen, and the one who headed out to LA to try and make it in his mid-twenties.  He's doing the work she didn't.

Also, has she even seen him act when he was in his teens?  Maybe there's a bit of singer looking down on the actor's talent.

The strange thing was that she was totally encouraging about Kate's singing career, to the point of being annoying.

I guess it makes sense if she looks down on acting, but its still weird. Rebecca was not an opera singer.... at best she was a lounge singer hoping for a record deal.

It is also bad if you think she allowed one rejection from LA to allow her to give up, particularly since it looked like she was being financially supported by her family.

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

Absolutely nothing in this episode surprised me, which is unfortunate given this is a show that basically lives and dies by how impressed it is at its own twists. You know the idea that every script/story can be shorter? There's the 2 hour version and the one hour and the half hour etc keep slicing it til you've got one sentence? Part 2 didn't need to be there. It didn't tell me anything I didn't presume from having seen Part 1. Did I know exactly what Sophie's mom said and did and meant to Kevin? Nope, but I could've guessed given stuff we already knew. Did I know exactly the Good Will Hunting story? No, but it also didn't give me any new insight into these characters. NONE of this needed to be there. Seems like Part 3 will involve something actually new with Kate, but I'm not really interested in that storyline and my main point is: the show seems impressed with itself doing the "week" from each of the 3's perspective, but it already feels drawn out. This did not need to be 3 episodes. It's like they're stalling.

I see this episode as the writers pumping the brakes after last week and giving the viewers a moment to breath before the next episode.  I saw this episode as a quiet character study showing the viewer how Kevin has matured from that bratty teen back in 98.  I found this to be an emotional episode like last weeks and I am guessing episode 13 when that airs.  But, I always enjoy the Kevin episodes.  I see myself in Kevin so I can relate.  I am using my own experience to help color in the lines of the episode.  If you don't have that emotional connection, I can see where you would find this episode drawn out and boring.  

I also do think these 3 episodes would work better if you are binge-watching the season.  I think NBC's scheduling is throwing off the rhythm of the writers.  

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The strange thing was that she was totally encouraging about Kate's singing career, to the point of being annoying.

I guess it makes sense if she looks down on acting, but its still weird. Rebecca was not an opera singer.... at best she was a lounge singer hoping for a record deal.

It is also bad if you think she allowed one rejection from LA to allow her to give up, particularly since it looked like she was being financially supported by her family.

And that rejection Rebecca received was probably the kindest type of rejection possible.  She was pretty much told that she needed to establish herself in LA, get some gigs, and the label would revisit.  She was told she was Pittsburgh Good and that she needed to work to become LA Good.  Rebecca quit LA as soon as she was told she wasn't special enough to immediately land a record deal.  

[Blakeston]

I think the writers are willing to strain plausibility in order to drive home certain points.

For example, in order to emphasize that Kevin feels like the least favorite child, they've gone way overboard with Rebecca's total lack of interest in his career.

I can't fathom any mother caring so little about her son's career as a major Hollywood star, unless there was some extreme dysfunction involved - like she'd flat-out disowned him.

I also think they went overboard with making Jack and Rebecca clueless about race, in order to emphasize how racially disconnected Randall felt as a child.

It never occurred to Rebecca and Jack, until that day at the pool, that they should let Randall get to know some other black people? Had they never bothered to read a single book about adopting a child of a different race?

[qtpye]

10 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think the writers are willing to strain plausibility in order to drive home certain points.

For example, in order to emphasize that Kevin feels like the least favorite child, they've gone way overboard with Rebecca's total lack of interest in his career.

I can't fathom any mother caring so little about her son's career as a major Hollywood star, unless there was some extreme dysfunction involved - like she'd flat-out disowned him.

I also think they went overboard with making Jack and Rebecca clueless about race, in order to emphasize how racially disconnected Randall felt as a child.

It never occurred to Rebecca and Jack, until that day at the pool, that they should let Randall get to know some other black people? Had they never bothered to read a single book about adopting a child of a different race?

Yes, if Kevin was not ignored then he has no issues. He is an amazingly handsome and successful man who has women just throwing themselves at him. Actually, Kevin is probably a lot like Justin in real life plus the family tragedy.

I know sometimes people who have everything can feel sad, but his story gets a lot less sympathetic if Rebecca did not ignore him.

Edited January 30, 2020 by qtpye

[reallyjustjen]

13 hours ago, maggiemae said:

My father was cremated and has a grave site at a National Cemetery. No need to be on the mantle or spread or in a Mausoleum.

But haven’t we seen the urn containing Jack’s remains, with the Big 3 numerous times in earlier seasons?  So in this case, they literally are on the mantle (and the sofa, and...), so it doesn’t seem to make sense to have a graveside service, given the lack of a grave(side).  

Edited January 30, 2020 by reallyjustjen

[Alice Mudgarden]

48 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I know sometimes people who have everything can feel sad, but his story gets a lot less sympathetic if Rebecca did not ignore him.

I don't know; for me it just resonates as a different type of sympathy. I guess it's all in how you view it.

Maybe it's because Kevin's more or less always been my favorite of the three, but I just... get him? He doesn't seem affected by the fact that he's this handsome, famous actor. He acknowledges it and doesn't come across as bothered by what could be considered by some to be the more tedious aspects of it (I personally love that he's always so willing to do the Manny schtick for people. He knows it'll make them happy and doesn't resent it). At the same time, it's not what fulfills him. I think he realizes how lucky he is with regards to his career and the life it's allowed him to lead, but it's not what fulfills him. And that's the "problem".

People assume he should be happy and carefree because of his professional success, but he'd probably be a zillion times happier if he felt as though he mattered more to the people who matter to him, whether he's the good-looking Hollywood star he is or any "regular schmoe" on the street. In fact, I'd bet he'd be happier being that regular schmoe if he felt he was seen and heard by his parents from when he was little. 

I'm not gonna put it all on Rebecca - Jack also played favorites, both of them without realizing it. You couple Kevin being the fifth wheel with how he doesn't like to see people be unhappy and it's super easy to see how he'd just suck it up and keep trucking on each time they wound him. It actually makes all the sense in the world that he became a successful actor; he got used to acting as though being that fifth wheel didn't matter to him, even though it very clearly does. It helped perpetuate the problem, because Rebecca and Jack didn't realize anything was wrong.

He never got to figure out who he is, because unlike Randall and Kate, he didn't have his parents figuratively holding his hand to help him get there; now he's lost as a person. Out of the three of them, that resonates with me the most. YMMV, obviously - we're all different - but I find the most unrelatable sibling on paper to be the most relatable in execution.

[kilda]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I think the writers are willing to strain plausibility in order to drive home certain points.

It never occurred to Rebecca and Jack, until that day at the pool, that they should let Randall get to know some other black people? Had they never bothered to read a single book about adopting a child of a different race?

in fairness to them, in the 1980s the conventional wisdom was that the right way to go in transracial adoption was to "not see race."  Remember when Jack said "I don't see color, I just see my son"?  If they did read a book about it, that's exactly the attitude it would have recommended.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, kilda said:

in fairness to them, in the 1980s the conventional wisdom was that the right way to go in transracial adoption was to "not see race."  Remember when Jack said "I don't see color, I just see my son"?  If they did read a book about it, that's exactly the attitude it would have recommended.

I also highly doubt there being a lot of literature about transracial adoptions in the 80s.  What was available would have all been written by the white mothers who have adopted, with little to no input from the children in question.  Even if Rebecca or Jack could have found a local support group, it would also have been filled with white women.  

[sasha206]

18 hours ago, marceline said:

This episode bored me senseless. I know viewers have wildly differing opinions of the characters and stories and I like that. For me, stories about Kevin's love life are an automatic snooze. I don't care whether it's Sophie or Sloane or Zoe (although I did like Kevin/Zoe in Vietnam) but "Who is Kevin Screwing Right Now?" doesn't interest me. In fact I'm tired of it. He fell into bed with Madison after being let down by Hall Pass Honey and before that there was his misadventure with Cassidy.

I'm done watching Kevin bone every damaged woman he bumps into.

YES!

What I hate is in nearly every instance, they are treating it like he's found THE ONE.  I'd rather them show him having meaningless one-night stands than have the show treat nearly every woman as THE POTENTIAL ONE that he's crushed over.

Meanwhile, am I the only one that thought Sophie's mother was going to try to bed teen Kevin?  She seemed waaaaaaay too touchy feeley.  I've never had someone I date's parents be that grabby with me.  I thought her "You'll have to earn it" was going to mean, "You're going to have to sleep with me..."  I was waiting for that to be some major secret he kept from Sophie. Also, I'm not a fan of Jennifer Westfeldt's acting.  

[Guiltypleasure25]

On 1/28/2020 at 10:03 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Aw, an episode I liked from start to finish. Centered on the one character I like, plus minimal Randall and minimal Jack. Hallelujah. Plus I felt more empathy and sympathy for Sophie losing her mom than pretty much anyone else on this show to date.

I surprised myself for actively rooting for Kevin and Sophie to reunite. Alas.

I agree with everything you said! I really loved this episode and thought it was really well done.  I also was rooting for Kevin and Sophie, and loved seeing more of their teen relationship.  Kevin really screwed that one up.

i remember Kevin’s episode last year also being good.

[kili]

Quote

So my best take on Rebecca's long-term dismissal of Kevin and his work is that it's a bit of jealousy.

I wonder if there is a bit of resentment mixed in with that jealousy? During the counselling session in rehab, when Kevin was pressing her about Randall being her favourite, she snapped:

"and he didn't abandon me and move away after his father died."

Kevin not only became a success as a performer, he "abandoned" her to pursue that performing career. So, she may resent his acting. It's not reasonable and he was the child in the situation.

Rebecca can kind of live vicariously through Kate's singing and Kate's not really been as successful as her Mom anyway. Plus, Kate didn't leave her mother after Jack died. Rebecca had no qualms about leaving her own parents to go to LA or her own kids to do a tour, but she believes that Kevin abandoned her and carried that inside her until it popped out in the counselling session.

In the car, Kevin was expecting that he would get a million questions about his first professional acting gig and he was faced with none. Randall was on his way out, Kate was arguing with her boyfriend and Rebecca was more worried about Randall's dreams and underwear.  Most people would have asked how it was like being on a real set even if his line had been cut from the show. Most people would have asked how any first job went. Most people would have had more questions to ask their teen son they hadn't seen for several weeks. Her not taping the show because she thought his bit had been cut is one thing - her complete disinterest in the entire first job is another.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, reallyjustjen said:

But haven’t we seen the urn containing Jack’s remains, with the Big 3 numerous times in earlier seasons?  So in this case, they literally are on the mantle (and the sofa, and...), so it doesn’t seem to make sense to have a graveside service, given the lack of a grave(side).  

Yes, the urn even made an appearance at Kate's wedding I think.  The graveside didn't make much sense, the memorial could have made the same impact indoors with the urn on a table with flowers, etc.  One possibility is that even though Jack explicitly said he didn't want to be in the ground, Rebecca wasn't as sure about herself when the time came and she had a plot there.  Or something.  Mainly it didn't make sense.

48 minutes ago, kilda said:

in fairness to them, in the 1980s the conventional wisdom was that the right way to go in transracial adoption was to "not see race."  Remember when Jack said "I don't see color, I just see my son"?  If they did read a book about it, that's exactly the attitude it would have recommended.

But they dumbed them down too much. The kid was 8 years old and they hadn't noticed his skin and hair had different needs? The writers also pretty much dropped the thread of the connection they made at the pool with Yvette (?)  She became friendly with them and Randall was friends with her kids, but we didn't see it beyond once or twice, or in a picture.

To bring it back to this episode, I feel the pacing is getting a little tedious.  There are only so many more flashbacks I care to see (no matter how cute the little kids are) of the various slights committed against the Big 3.  I get it already.  They have so much ground to cover before the series ends, a little forward motion with present day would interest me more than weekly rehashing of the dynamics we already know so well.

[smartymarty]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Throughout the decades of the show Rebecca always seems to me to have a sense of entitlement, soaking up her children's and both husbands' total devotion while never  giving back quite as much as she gets.

Could it be she was subconsciously jealous of Kevin's success in entertainment, when she failed? ETA: I see others beat me to this idea.

Quote

Most people would have asked how it was like being on a real set even if his line had been cut from the show. Most people would have asked how any first job went. 

Did Sophie and Kevin arrive in the morning? Rebecca was just going to work, Randall needed to get back to school. Did S & K drive all the way from NYC to Pittsburgh overnight? Because I could see Rebecca asking about the real set that night at dinner, not at 8 a.m. on her way out the door for work.

Quote

 I think he realizes how lucky he is with regards to his career and the life it's allowed him to lead,

Like the ability to fly to a funeral last minute and then turn around and fly back to Pittsburgh because he's "had a bad week"? Besides me hating the idea idea of getting on a flight across the country just a day after flying across the country, it's got to cost a bit to buy last-minute tickets.

I'm hoping Sophie finding the emerald ring just served to remind her that Kevin never measured up. (And I agree with others that the ring story was lame. Ooh, a woman told a guy going off to war to wait to get engaged to her until/unless he came back? And that inspired him to live, as opposed to the usual reasons people prefer not to be killed?)

Edited January 30, 2020 by smartymarty
about the ring

[ams1001]

21 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Because I could see Rebecca asking about the real set that night at dinner, not at 8 a.m. on her way out the door for work.

True, but she was also still trying to get Randall to tell her about his "weird dream" when they were both trying to leave for work/school. So she has time to talk to Randall (who doesn't actually have time, either) but not Kevin?

[smartymarty]

9 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

True, but she was also still trying to get Randall to tell her about his "weird dream" when they were both trying to leave for work/school.

Geez, how many hours before they need to leave the house do these people get up??!

[Alice Mudgarden]

35 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Like the ability to fly to a funeral last minute and then turn around and fly back to Pittsburgh because he's "had a bad week"? Besides me hating the idea idea of getting on a flight across the country just a day after flying across the country, it's got to cost a bit to buy last-minute tickets.

Yeah, something like that. He doesn't seem like he thinks twice about it because he doesn't - he doesn't have to. The important thing, I think, is that if someone else said they couldn't, Kevin would get that. Hell, he'd probably offer to pay for the person to do it anyway, if it was important to them. At least, that's how I think it'd go; the writers could always prove me wrong eventually haha