S10.E08: Andi Meets The Parents

[truthaboutluv]

On re watch, I really liked Nick's sister Maria and I thought she asked him one of the best questions a person has asked on this nutty show - "do you think you can truly be yourself unapologetically". And therein lies one of the biggest issues with this whole process which Sharleen also pointed out in her blog - that is, there's a significant power imbalance in the whole developing "relationship".

No matter how much they may want to, those guys can't always say exactly how they feel or what they think as she literally has the power to just send them away. And stuck in that bubble, caught up in the "competition" no matter how much they may not want to admit it, they get terrified of not getting a rose. So how true and honest can the relationship really be?

I also did like seeing Nick around his family and in Milwaukee. He really did seem almost calmer, more at ease and dare I say, even a little cheerful. And Chris Harrison pointed it out in an interview, that he really seemed less tense and just happy. I really think being around those guys those last few days/weeks was just driving Nick insane. Of course I'd feel the same too if I kept getting attacked and jumped on for every little thing.

[IslandGirl]

He must've got it from Sean's shop The Factory Girl. That place sells, or at least used to sell, some hideous furniture painted just like that. I browsed the site after his season ended and nearly clawed my eyes out.

MsPH, I had no idea Sean had The Factory Girl shop.  I'm always amazed at how much all y'all know! :-)  That coffee table is the most hideous thing I've seen in quite some time--you couldn't pay me to put that in my house.

 

He always looks blank.

 

 

YES!!  I think you've put your finger on exactly his problem.  They are sports fanatics, his brother was a nationally-known QB at a major football school, now draftee to the NFL and he couldn't make it out of the minor leagues.  It's clear that his family considers him a lesser star than his brother.  And although they kept saying how supportive Josh was of Aaron's career, and maybe he truly is, I think there's not a small amount of envy and pain there.  It almost makes me feel sorry for the guy and I haven't cared for him at all this season.

Rhondinella, like you I didn't care for him either.  But now that I've seen his sports obsessed family, my heart goes out to the poor guy. Even though I actually like sports (in moderation!), something about the family dynamic struck me as odd...

[Mrsjumbo]

Rhondinella, you brought up the point about the home visits that I was wondering about. Now granted I have only watched an episode here & there over the years, so I may be wrong, but it seems they always come from a beautiful home!

If I ever went on the show (which I wouldn't) my parents would 1. Never agree to be on camera & 2. They are lower middle class so the show would have to do some creative staging with rental furniture, creative camera angles, etc.

[cereality]

Josh's family seems like the typical relatively well-off, sports obsessed family. They seem like the types who spent a lot of money on their sons (and maybe their daughter) on sports -- private coaching; traveling to competitions all over the place; club teams etc. -- all for the chance for them to be seen by the right coaches to be drafted. They seem like nothing mattered but sports; I mean Josh comes across dumb as a door knob. For Josh it worked out to a limited extent -- a few years of AAA ball but no position in the majors. For Aaron -- there's still a chance that he will last for a while in the NFL and that family is not about to give up on that chance because of some fiancé or daughter in law. They will do what they have always done -- go from game to game, competition to competition to "support" Aaron -- though a 23 yr old NFL rookie has all kinds of coaching and does not need mommy, daddy, and big bro hovering, this is also the family's 15 min of fame.

 

Just the way they handled Andi's visit suggests how they will treat her once she is part of the family (as I think she will pick him -- she likes/is used to the jock type). I realize it was a few hours of visiting cut down into 15 min, but even in the way they were speaking, it was clear that their nuclear family was the number 1 priority and if Andi wants to be a girlfriend or fiancé or wife, that's nice. She will always be the third wheel, at least until the NFL career ends. And if she wants to pull back and decide that they aren't flying to every game all over the country, there will be fighting with Josh -- as his sister already said.

 

This is a great opportunity for Josh to start his own life. While there is a lot of editing, he really does seem wistful about baseball being over SEVEN years ago. They were his glory days and in no way does being a financial services rep compare. Instead of developing his own life that's exciting to him, he chooses to live vicariously through his brother and re-live every angle of the draft, pro day, media days, rookie camps etc. I would not be surprised if he ends up being a manager/agent for his brother -- keeps those roles all in the family, gives him an excuse to travel and be around his brother, and he can tout his finance "background." Honestly if Andi chooses him, they should go back to ATL and develop their own lives -- get to know each for real, marry, kids etc. Doesn't mean he should cut the family out, but you can support your brother and be part of the family without living vicariously through him every step of the way.

[caligirl50]

MrsJumbo, I think in the history of the show, although I haven't watched every season, only two or three contestants did not have their family on the hometown dates. Melissa Rycroft's family wouldn't appear on the show and on Jen Scheft's season, the guy she chose at the end had her meet his brother only. I don't know of any others.

Hometown dates - so awkward!

[LunaNegra]

 

On re watch, I really liked Nick's sister Maria and I thought she asked him one of the best questions a person has asked on this nutty show - "do you think you can truly be yourself unapologetically".

The thing that caught my attention was her comment/question, of "even your moods" or "even your attitudes" or something to that effect. So, yea, even Nick's family knows he's can be petulant. Red flag there.

[Servalan]

Also, Meredith's final pick, Ian, did not have her meet his parents.

[truthaboutluv]

The thing that caught my attention was her comment/question, of "even your moods" or "even your attitudes" or something to that effect. So, yea, even Nick's family knows he's can be petulant. Red flag there.

 

 

I actually don't remember her saying that. The main thing I got from her was that she was naturally skeptical about the show's process and that she was concerned about Nick getting hurt because of his past relationships and how they ended. I don't remember her saying anything about his having any moods or attitude or really anything critical about him at all. Honestly, that sister seemed fiercely protective of Nick in my opinion, like to the point that I can see her kicking some ass if she thinks someone hurt her brother. 

 

MrsJumbo, I think in the history of the show, although I haven't watched every season, only two or three contestants did not have their family on the hometown dates. Melissa Rycroft's family wouldn't appear on the show and on Jen Scheft's season, the guy she chose at the end had her meet his brother only. I don't know of any others.

 

 

Emily's family wasn't on her HTD with Brad. He only met Ricki.

Edited July 9, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[pitchy]

He always looks blank.

 

 

YES!!  I think you've put your finger on exactly his problem.  They are sports fanatics, his brother was a nationally-known QB at a major football school, now draftee to the NFL and he couldn't make it out of the minor leagues.  It's clear that his family considers him a lesser star than his brother.  And although they kept saying how supportive Josh was of Aaron's career, and maybe he truly is, I think there's not a small amount of envy and pain there.  It almost makes me feel sorry for the guy and I haven't cared for him at all this season.

 

I don't know if there's any truth to a story I just read concerning Josh, from a day ago, but I'll post it to Spoilers though it would also fit in Media but .... it has spoiler subject matter...

[CorgiNarnia]

I think Chris might feel led on, too, but with far less reason. It's always been a fantasy of mine to live on a farm, but I don't find Chris attractive at all and his 16 arrests in his wild youth, while far in the past, would be something I would worry about. We've all done dumb things when were very young but fleeing the scene of an accident is a biggie to me. I would think Andi might have less tolerance for that sort of thing than most people because of all the petty criminals she's had to see in her work.

 

Or she might be turned on by that, as seen in one of my favorite movies, Out of Sight. I remember thinking to myself on the Juan Pablo season, that the producers are really going for a Karen Sisko/JLo tough chick vibe when they cast Andi for both shows.

 

But why wouldn't they just go to the mansion? The crew knows how to set up there very quickly and they ended up shooting there the next day anyway. I just think CH had some renovations done at his house and he can write part of it off now as a business expense.

That property is probably being rented constantly for weddings and corporate events and did not happen to be available that day.

[Padma]

Three things I don't understand about this show:

 

(1) how the b-ette can get to the end and not feel horrible to be getting ready to hurt several really nice guys (I may not think Marcus was "in love" but I do believe he felt he was and that's all that matters. Chris, Nick, Josh all seem really committed (though I still feel Josh would be disappointed but not as emotionally upset as the other two.

 

(2) how the guys don't seem to have ever seen this series before. The premise is "lead several men on but only one is chosen at the end." Only one! It might NOT be you! They see the competition. I don't get how they're so confident they're going to "win".

 

(3) How I forget (1) and (2) until this point Every. Single. Season!

***

Josh's disappointment over his failed baseball career and all the rationalizations with it would be a big red flag for me. Even more so now that his brother is succeeding where he failed. He seems supportive but has so many unresolved issues about himself as a result of being destined for the Baseball Hall of Fame (in his mind) then washing out (and still not coming to grips with it).

Plus, of all the sports I could like, well, I hate football. A whole family obsessed with it would be Hell!

****

When they were dealing with Eric, Chris (not H) was the one I would have turned to for comfort and support. (Though I commend Marcus for leaving the room and don't understand why, when Andi went to him, they had to keep the door open. He wanted privacy. Wasn't that scene all about respect and caring for those involved in the show? No? Okay then.

***

Nick seemed so sweet around his family and so into Andi. I felt bad for his little sister if he doesn't get chosen--you kind of lead the families on, too.

***

And... Chris. I love how centered he is. Very soothing, but not dull. I liked his sister's point that he's not "just a farmer", he's a very clever and hard-working businessman. (I don't think Andi got it though. She's still thinking of him as "hot farmer")

 

Not a big Andi fan, but she's been much better as TB-ette than she was on JP's season. I do like her THs and how she always praises the guys' effusively rather than making it all about her. She also has an amazing way of looking good with everyone--but best with Josh (except when you see them all together, she could really pass for his sister, lol.)

Edited July 9, 2014 by Padma

[Lamb18]

Josh and Chris can get married - Chris lives close to Dyersville where the "Field of Dreams" baseball field is.

[alexa]

Technically, as long as you lived in a town with a Walmart, you'd have "everything you need."

 

I get that you don't like Iowa, but that is a bit harsh.  The Iowa cities are far different than the small towns in Iowa that only have a Walmart.  They do actually have malls and Target as well :-)  And they even have downtown areas with restaurants and clubs and such--OMG!.  But yes, Andi would be far away from it all and she would get bored most likely.  

[JudyObscure]

I don't think Andi would have any trouble adjusting to Iowa either. We moved from Washington D.C. to England to Atlanta area in Georgia to farm country Ohio and believe me I "adjusted," with joy. Here it is mid-summer and we can actually have picnics and other outdoor activities without having to go home early because of the sweltering conditions. In Georgia I had to limit my gardening to 15 minute intervals because of the heat stroke warnings and I gave up walking my dog after she did a few lie down strikes at the end of my driveway. I can be in one of three big cities in 45 minutes and the nice part is that I'm actually covering about 60 miles in that period, not 45 minutes covering ten miles of Atlanta traffic. The people here are the friendliest I've ever met and they aren't morons just because they own farms instead of some other business. My newest friend takes me with her to the theatre and ballet in Columbus and we can drive home without too many narrow escapes with out lives.

[TheFinalRose]

But why wouldn't they just go to the mansion? The crew knows how to set up there very quickly and they ended up shooting there the next day anyway. I just think CH had some renovations done at his house and he can write part of it off now as a business expense.

 

That property is probably being rented constantly for weddings and corporate events and did not happen to be available that day.

 

 

I could be wrong, and don't quote me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that they had to break the news on Easter Sunday. So it might not even have been possible to get in contact with the mansion rental firm, or whatever, last minute on a holiday. Personally, I thought it was a nice touch for Chris to have it in his home, it elevated the scene by taking it off "set." That's about the only nice thing I can say about the death reveal, however. 

 

 

[Adeejay]

I haven't watched every season, only two or three contestants did not have their family on the hometown dates. Melissa Rycroft's family wouldn't appear on the show and on Jen Scheft's season, the guy she chose at the end had her meet his brother only. I don't know of any others.

 

 

A long list of contestants took the bachelor/ette to meet friends instead of family.  Jen Schefft met Jerry’s entire family.  I remember this well, because his mother is hearing-impaired and only communicates through sign language.  They were decidedly lower middle class, and after hanging with the wealthy Firestones, Princess Jen of Cleveland, seemed uncomfortable and couldn't wait to hightail it out of there.  To this day, I honestly believe the main reason she rejected Jerry’s proposal was because of his socioeconomic status.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Adeejay

[Rhondinella]

Didn't Jef Holm's family not meet Emily either, or at least his parents didn't, because they are Mormon (I believe) and objected to the whole thing? Plus I think they were overseas on a mission trip at the time?  Or am I misremembering? Yes, I could look it up, but I don't want to. :-)

[truthaboutluv]

They didn't object. They were on a mission trip that could only be interrupted for family emergencies and the like. But Emily still met all or most of Jef's siblings. Jef had almost as many people on his HTD as Nick.

[jackjill89]

He always looks blank.

 

 

YES!!  I think you've put your finger on exactly his problem.  They are sports fanatics, his brother was a nationally-known QB at a major football school, now draftee to the NFL and he couldn't make it out of the minor leagues.  It's clear that his family considers him a lesser star than his brother.  And although they kept saying how supportive Josh was of Aaron's career, and maybe he truly is, I think there's not a small amount of envy and pain there.  It almost makes me feel sorry for the guy and I haven't cared for him at all this season.

I have an extended family situation where the younger sibling was very good at a sport and the older one wasn't athletically inclined. Since athleticism was coveted by the family, the attention, money and time was always put on the younger sibling. The older one became her biggest cheerleader and the support system. The only way to get attention was to jump on the younger sibling's bandwagon. Seeing Josh's situation reminded me of this family. They always moved in lock-step to the younger siblings events. Now that the kids are older and married, they still move in lock step to the younger siblings events -- the whole family. Andi is going to have to consider that if Josh is the one -- He's late 20s and still moves lock-step with his family. That won't be an easy habit to break. I also don't think his mother is going to let him go that easily. Josh's place in the family is the supportive older brother. I don't think he'll be willing to give that up for Andi. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

Here it is mid-summer and we can actually have picnics and other outdoor activities without having to go home early because of the sweltering conditions. In Georgia I had to limit my gardening to 15 minute intervals because of the heat stroke warnings and I gave up walking my dog after she did a few lie down strikes at the end of my driveway.  I can be in one of three big cities in 45 minutes and the nice part is that I'm actually covering about 60 miles in that period, not 45 minutes covering ten miles of Atlanta traffic. The people here are the friendliest I've ever met and they aren't morons just because they own farms instead of some other business. My newest friend takes me with her to the theatre and ballet in Columbus and we can drive home without too many narrow escapes with out lives.

 

Is Columbus one of the cities within 45 minutes?  Because the Columbus area has about 2 million people.  In Arlington, you have to travel almost an hour and a half just to get to a city with 100,000 people in it.  It's fine with me if someone wants to live in Arlington, but sometimes it's hard to grasp just how remote a place can be without personal experience. 

 

As for the weather, maybe Andi and Chris can summer in Arlington and winter in Atlanta.  Both are hell in the other season. 

[Padma]

Josh's family seems like the typical relatively well-off, sports obsessed family. They seem like the types who spent a lot of money on their sons (and maybe their daughter) on sports -- private coaching; traveling to competitions all over the place; club teams etc. -- all for the chance for them to be seen by the right coaches to be drafted. They seem like nothing mattered but sports; I mean Josh comes across dumb as a door knob.

 

He does, except that at least he values Andi's intelligence (or says he does) and that she's in a profession that uses it.

I can't remember a bachelor who's changed my impression of him so much by the end. Not that I like him better--he seems okay, but so boring. You know how he went through school--Mr. Popularity, all the girls chasing him, all the boys looking up to him because he was so talented in sports.

 

And his whole family--especially his father--living out their fantasies of being special and popular because their son was destined to be a famous baseball player ("Hall of Fame"--that definitely came from Dad.)  Now he feels bad that he disappointed them (esp. his father) because he did. And there's no way to get that back because they're not going to change and that's what's important to them.

 

So, with all his great looks, at 30 he feels like a disappointment and a failure. And no one can -still- take it in stride that he isn't a pro ball player because he just wasn't good enough. That's a sad way to be at 30, when you have so much going for you. I liked it that Andi was really looking out for him and she might be just the right woman ("a real woman" whatever that means) to bring out the best and boost him up, hopefully.

 

But Josh's parents, especially his father and talking to Andi about "you'll have to be all about sports because that's who we are as a family" (paraphrasing, that's what I got from him) made me think "Not too crazy about this guy. Poor Josh."

 

"Poor Josh" by the end. When in the beginning he looked like a guy who had it all.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Padma

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't think Andi would have any trouble adjusting to Iowa either. We moved from Washington D.C. to England to Atlanta area in Georgia to farm country Ohio and believe me I "adjusted," with joy. Here it is mid-summer and we can actually have picnics and other outdoor activities without having to go home early because of the sweltering conditions.

 

Ah yes, nothing like that Southeastern heat and humidity.  I was born in Georgia, currently live in Florida.  I went to visit my brother during the summer in the Detroit area a couple of years ago, and I didn't want to leave.  It was so nice to be able to be outside without worry of heatstroke and bugs.  It's funny, he only visits now during the holiday season or winter.  I totally understand - I'm seriously thinking of moving. I'm so over the seasons of "hot and humid," "less hot yet still humid" and the very short season of "mild with low humidity."

 

Anyway, I've never been to Iowa, but Chris could live near L.A. or Dallas or Seattle or Minneapolis or Boston...it wouldn't make much difference.  Andi's never seemed that into him, and her interest has seemingly decreased from their first date. If she doesn't choose him, I sincerely doubt his home would be the deal breaker.  Chris is likely more cosmo than the Farmer Brown background suggests, as others have mentioned.  After all, most small-town guys would have been married by now, possibly with kids - he's not.  Chris going on the show implies he's at least open to famewhorism.  Definitely not buying what the show is selling with those two. As mentioned by others, she's barely out of law school, so it's not like she would have to leave a thriving career to live in Iowa.

 

Also, she called his house "cute."  It's also how she referred to the airplane banner.  OK, Andi.  Of the F3, she's the most physically distant with him.    

 

That said, Chris did indeed look hot in his plaid shirt and vest, though I can understand why his arrest record is a turn-off, especially the alcohol-related ones. Of course, if you have less than 800 people in your town, I suppose it's inevitable to be cited multiple times for relatively insignificant infractions.  Hell, I regularly drive 10-15 miles over the speed limit, especially on highways, so I can't really hold those against him.  Heavy footers unite!

 

As a side note, he seems the only one of the final three able to string coherent sentences together and sound like an adult when talking to or about Andi.  Thank you, Chris.  He also looks like he gives great hugs, based on his interaction with his family.  Random, I know.

[leighdear]

 

Im so over the seasons of "hot and humid," "less hot yet still humid" and the very short season of "mild with low humidity."

Sorry Ribbon, but the seasons here are: Hot, Hot and Wet, Hot, Wet and Buggy, and Christmas. 

 

(I'm a 4th generation Floridian, so my snark is higher than the humidity! :)

[cereality]

I think Chris was pretty realistic when he said that if you don't like where you live, it won't matter how much you love someone. This living situation isn't the equivalent of her ending up in Toledo or Des Moines instead of Atlanta, that she could handle. This is Atlanta vs. a town with 700 people, where she won't have a career. While he said she could be an ADA or do something law related in Cedar Rapids -- on a map that looks to be 1-1.5 hours away and is impractical. Her reality will be being in that farm town 24-7 and her social circle will likely be her sisters-in-law and maybe a few friends that they introduce her to.

 

I think his mom was downplaying the location issue and overplaying the -- OMG you'll have such beautiful babies, I'll babysit for you. It's unrealistic to say that with enough gumption, it doesn't matter where you live. Gumption doesn't change the fact that the nearest law firms are 1.5 hours away and I highly doubt they're working out an arrangement for teleworking with someone who has a whole 18 months of experience. Mom may be thinking -- my son is a wealthy businessman, you can have a career -- we'll get you a spot in his business; I'm sure Chris would be willing to name her VP of Operations or some such thing for his farming company so that she can have a "career," but in the end it'll still be totally dependent on him. If she wants to be with him and still have her own career, her best bet would be to chase some kind of Hollywood career. There are plenty of B level celebrities reporting for these entertainment shows and they don't appear every day and would likely want to work out an arrangement with a former Bachelorette that would allow her to fly in when needed and work from home otherwise. Thing is, Chris and his family struck me as traditional, and while they may be ok with that for a while -- I could see them having a problem with a daughter in law who is away on business for 1-2 weeks at a time in the big city.

[Kbilly]

Honestly, he [Josh] came across as almost blank

 

He always looks blank.

 

I truly thought Josh had no idea who Eric was. Really, he was probably only with the show, what, a week, week and a half?

 

Someone above said that Chris was very calm, even-keel. I think almost too? I was dying for a little voice inflection and he barely laughed when his sisters joked that he "fought in public" on their date! ("You let one go?" sister asked) or that he only wore underwear to school for a spell. Although his even delivery made the "There's opportunity to be a homemaker" line especially hilarious.  

[cereality]

I get the sense Josh's family spent the time and money on him for baseball, and now it's their turn with Aaron and no one is going to disrupt that -- whether it's son who is disappointed with how his career turned out or a future daughter in law. I read an article about Josh and Aaron, and Josh REALLY has appointed himself his brother's keeper -- it isn't all for show. He watched over him and his training, they lived together in Atlanta; what 28 yr old man wants to live with his college student brother for any length of time??

 

The sports thing comes with pressure in their home, it seems. Dad was a 3 sport athlete at Cornell and then ended up in the Blue Jays organization, where his career went further than Josh's. So it is possible that the parents think -- you let us down with all the time/money we put into you, I got further than you with far less parent/monetary investment. Josh's only way to stay a part of it is to support the next investment -- Aaron -- even if it makes him feel lousy about himself as it's a daily reminder of how he didn't make it or isn't doing what he wants to be doing and is stuck in an office instead. He doesn't seem super-bright, but this is a guy who would do well carving out a whole different life that his just for him and his wife -- a business, grad school, whatever; I really think with Andi supporting him and cheering him on, it's possible IF he wants it himself -- which right now he doesn't because he's content to follow his brother's dreams.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Gumption doesn't change the fact that the nearest law firms are 1.5 hours away and I highly doubt they're working out an arrangement for teleworking with someone who has a whole 18 months of experience.

 

Especially someone who quit her first job in the middle of a trial to be on The Bachelorette. 

[JenE4]

I watched this on the ABC app and the show is only an hour and 24 minutes without all of the coming up commercial bumpers (and shorter commercials).

I was distracted during the Eric reveal because I was too busy scanning Harrison's house. It looked just like the mansion but without all of the drapery and candles--graffiti art! And then the crew hugs, I was all why is Nick embracing Elan for so long--and ooh Josh completely turned away Elan's hug and just got a back pat.

As for the hometowns I'm really surprised to say that I've done a complete turnaround and have to admit that I liked Nick the most this episode! I liked how he was with his family, and his scene with Bella was so cute. He seemed very genuine the way he lit up when Bella said Andi really loved him--and then was so crestfallen and then accepting when she said I think I said liked. I was also impressed that Andi remembered everyone's names! I'd be all, there's Bella...and, uh, odds are someone might be named Mike?

I liked Chris more, too. He was pretty realistic about it not working out if she couldn't see a life there--despite their love. So I thought it was funny that his mom said the complete opposite! I started off liking his mom, but she turned way intense way fast with this Modern Day Farmer's Wife stump speech. Relax there, mom--and sisters!

I agree about the point of Josh's family that it had to have edited to show EVERYTHING uttered about baseball and football and Aaron. I also don't get though that if baseball is so hard on Josh and he hasn't picked up a bat in 7 years, why does he mention it practically every time he's with Andi? I thought it was uncanny how much Andi looks like Josh's mom; that was like looking at Andi in 25 years! The Portrait of Andi Dorfman! Andi and Josh really do make the best looking couple together. Seeing them walking near the water with their coordinated navy shirts and brightly colored shorts, they looked right out of an ad.

Oh! And I almost forgot to mention Marcus! Just like with Andi...eh, didn't really register with me. That was nice that he thanked his brother. I didn't really get where all the Andi gushing was coming from. I do remember them repelling off the casino, but I have no other clear impressions of any interactions between them. (Shrug)

[legaleagle53]

Didn't Jef Holm's family not meet Emily either, or at least his parents didn't, because they are Mormon (I believe) and objected to the whole thing? Plus I think they were overseas on a mission trip at the time?  Or am I misremembering? Yes, I could look it up, but I don't want to. :-)

 

You're not entirely misremembering.  It wasn't that Jef's family disapproved (but that did, I think play a factor with regard to one of his siblings), but that his parents were at the time engaged in a full-time mission for the Church in South Carolina (as the couple who were presiding over the mission, there was no way they could have left the mission field to meet with Jef and Emily.  That would have been seen as a dereliction of duty and not been permitted under the mission rules).

[Jillibean]

 

Although with his brother around Josh is used to not being the priority in the house so she could easily stop into that role.

 

It's certainly possible, but I personally think it's much more likely that playing second-fiddle to his brother is going to drive him to be the most important person and biggest priority in the new family he creates for himself. From everything he's told Andi, particularly some of what seem like half-truths about why he's no longer playing baseball, it seems to me like he's still really hungry for attention/respect/hero-worship and will need that from his significant other since he doesn't get enough from his family. I think Josh might be the type of guy who is fine when he feels he's being admired or respected, but who is going to freak out as soon as Andi starts criticizing or nitpicking him. I don't think his over-the-top reaction to his perception of feeling not entirely trusted during the lie detector test was at all a fluke. I think Josh has a lot of insecurities and a fragile ego that he's packaged into a kind of faux-confidence and swagger that will come apart in anger or disorganized frustration the first time Andi says something to him that bruises his self-esteem. And again just my opinion, but if he likes her as much as Nick does, he's doing a good job of hiding it. I feel like Josh is more just going with the flow as he moves along in the competition for a woman he finds attractive and likeable than genuinely infatuated or anything deeper than that. However, given the flatness of his affect, it's possible that I'm reading him wrong.

[ribboninthesky1]

I think Chris was pretty realistic when he said that if you don't like where you live, it won't matter how much you love someone. [...]

 

I think his mom was downplaying the location issue and overplaying the -- OMG you'll have such beautiful babies, I'll babysit for you. It's unrealistic to say that with enough gumption, it doesn't matter where you live. Gumption doesn't change the fact that the nearest law firms are 1.5 hours away and I highly doubt they're working out an arrangement for teleworking with someone who has a whole 18 months of experience. Mom may be thinking -- my son is a wealthy businessman, you can have a career -- we'll get you a spot in his business; I'm sure Chris would be willing to name her VP of Operations or some such thing for his farming company so that she can have a "career," but in the end it'll still be totally dependent on him. If she wants to be with him and still have her own career, her best bet would be to chase some kind of Hollywood career. There are plenty of B level celebrities reporting for these entertainment shows and they don't appear every day and would likely want to work out an arrangement with a former Bachelorette that would allow her to fly in when needed and work from home otherwise. Thing is, Chris and his family struck me as traditional, and while they may be ok with that for a while -- I could see them having a problem with a daughter in law who is away on business for 1-2 weeks at a time in the big city.

 

If this were real life, I could totally see this point.  But these two met on the show.  If Chris really wanted someone who would be okay with living there, he wouldn't have done the show.  Apparently the farm can run without him for some length of time, so I suspect he's not as tied to his hometown as the show implies. And since Andi has barely practiced law at all, the whole "you could be a DA in Cedar Rapids" discussion was hilarious to me, mature as it was.  Because if Andi was really focused on her legal career, I doubt she would have done the Bachelorette. Chris is one of the three non-Josh guys who were most effusive, that we've seen at least, in their feelings for Andi.  I'm willing to bet that's the primary, if not sole, reason he got this far.  I sincerely believe if it was Josh in Arlington (or X small mid-western town), and Chris in Atlanta (or X major metropolis), Chris still might not have a shot at F1. 

 

Assuming he's beyond the alcohol issues, Chris on paper is totally my type, even when I was 25.  Give me attractive, seemingly boring yet kind, even-keeled, and financially stable any day.  Andi will likely never have to worry about money, so she's going with her attraction.  While I've never found Josh remotely attractive, physically or otherwise, Andi does. To me, her body language towards Chris tells the story.  I think she respects Chris, but isn't into him romantically, especially compared to Josh and Nick.

 

Sorry Ribbon, but the seasons here are: Hot, Hot and Wet, Hot, Wet and Buggy, and Christmas. 

 

(I'm a 4th generation Floridian, so my snark is higher than the humidity! :)

 

Ha! Your descriptions are even more appropriate.  I stand corrected.

[Mrsjumbo]

It's certainly possible, but I personally think it's much more likely that playing second-fiddle to his brother is going to drive him to be the most important person and biggest priority in the new family he creates for himself. From everything he's told Andi, particularly some of what seem like half-truths about why he's no longer playing baseball, it seems to me like he's still really hungry for attention/respect/hero-worship and will need that from his significant other since he doesn't get enough from his family. I think Josh might be the type of guy who is fine when he feels he's being admired or respected, but who is going to freak out as soon as Andi starts criticizing or nitpicking him. I don't think his over-the-top reaction to his perception of feeling not entirely trusted during the lie detector test was at all a fluke. I think Josh has a lot of insecurities and a fragile ego that he's packaged into a kind of faux-confidence and swagger that will come apart in anger or disorganized frustration the first time Andi says something to him that bruises his self-esteem. And again just my opinion, but if he likes her as much as Nick does, he's doing a good job of hiding it. I feel like Josh is more just going with the flow as he moves along in the competition for a woman he finds attractive and likeable than genuinely infatuated or anything deeper than that. However, given the flatness of his affect, it's possible that I'm reading him wrong.

I had to LOL st this because it sounded like you were describing Andi! Remember her over the top reaction to Eric's criticism of her ?

[Madding crowd]

Josh lives in a different state than his parents so I doubt he sees them weekly or even monthly. I thought the family did pay attention to Andi, but yes they talked about Aaron too which is probably normal. I think everyone would be supportive and interested in a family member who is in the spotlight whether it is through sports, the entertainment industry, wrote a book etc. And just because they are a sports family it doesn't make them bad people or people who would be bad to Andi.

 

I would guess that Josh would want to go to some games but would probably not be able to fly out to every game which would be expensive and time consuming. And this is a minor problem for Andi compared to the idea of potentially moving to a farm or to Chicago or dealing with whatever the deep dark Marcus family problem might be.

 

I'm still not convinced that Andi is truly in love with any of these guys, not even in a typical bachelorette way. I don't know if the guys are feeling it that much for her either. I'm guessing Andi wants some kind of entertainment job, but it won't be easy because she frowns too much and probably can't help it.

 

I still don't like the scene at Chris Harrison's house, but I can't fault the guys on how they reacted or didn't react. People react differently, they hardly knew the guy and they were probably quite surprised at being taken to Chris' house. I don't even think Andi knew him that well but I can understand her emotions regarding their last meeting.

[Armchair Critic]

I'm still not convinced that Andi is truly in love with any of these guys

 

I don't think she is either. I think she has backed herself into a corner with the guys she has left, I think to keep her pride she will accept a proposal from F1 but it will fizzle out after the show is done.

[Padma]

I still don't like the scene at Chris Harrison's house, but I can't fault the guys on how they reacted or didn't react. People react differently, they hardly knew the guy and they were probably quite surprised at being taken to Chris' house. I don't even think Andi knew him that well but I can understand her emotions regarding their last meeting

 

I don't blame the guys at all. I'm convinced they had already been told or heard it on the news already--they all looked upset (probably even more so to have to display it all for the cameras. No wonder they didn't say anything or even look surprised. I liked Marcus* for getting up to be alone. It was rude of the show to make them open the door so he could still be recorded. (*I typed "Marcos" and couldn't remember his name. Strange that he's so handsome, but so oddly completely forgettable.)

 

On the shallow side, with all his millions Chris' house didn't look better than mine (at least the little bit we saw). That was gratifying. Also, what was up with that table? Ug-ly. (Oh, and Andi, Chris/farm guy's house was not "cute", although I did like her honesty in saying none of her friends live in anything more impressive than an apt or townhouse. That was a lot of house--and acreage, though I didn't hear how large it was.) 

 

Andi handled Eric's death well, I thought, until she gave the scripted speech about "he was a part of us, our family"--that felt so fake.  So did Chris H et al for leaving on the cameras so we could see the producers and camera people hugging the contestants.  "Art is a lie that tells the truth."  Only sometimes it's a lie that tells a lie. That whole scene just felt so fake, even if the emotions were genuine.

 

I think Andi likes "farmer Chris", thinks Nick is very attractive and good to her (after seeing him with his family, I agree), but is completely infatuated with Josh. I think he's very reserved, but I believe his mother when she said he is "head over heels" in love with her. I feel bad for Nick (and Bella) if Andi dumps him. I think Chris can take it and won't be terribly surprised. But Josh? With his feelings of failure and rejection already?Imagine if she dumps him for someone else on national television. No wonder he's so cautious. I don't know if he has the self confidence to handle being dumped now that he has convinced himself she's "the one".

 

And, since I'm one who believes 99% of the time they sleep together in the FS (as Andi did with JP...ugh), I'm a little curious about next week. Because I think Andi already has chosen Josh in her mind (luckily for her, she doesn't hate football --and even more the "sports valued over everything else culture"--like some of us do). If she's in love with Josh already, I can't imagine her sleeping with Nick, too,--and I -really- can't imagine her sleeping with Chris. How will she get out of it (because I think she will)? Inquiring minds want to know, lol.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Padma

[lonestar]

I think Andi kept Chris because he'll be easier to dump next week than Marcos would have been.

[seacliffsal]

This has been a very interesting season to watch.  I actually think that Andi would like having an in-law who is in the NFL as I think the 'cebritiness' of it would appeal to her.  After all, she wanted to play professional tennis until she didn't, she wanted to be a DA until she didn't and now it seems like she wants to be a celebrity.  Having a connection to the NFL won't hurt.  I was a bit bewildered with her "he was a part of our family" until I realized that she's a bit like Catherine and Sean-she'll say all the right Bachelor family things in order to extend her time on the relating shows and in entertainment.  She actually seems like she wants to do something, be something and then loses interest so she'll probably grab as much attention as possible while she can and then maybe she'll lose interest.

 

It's also interesting to me to compare her rant at Juan Pablo to the direction she seems to be taking with her men.  After all, wasn't she upset that he led her on and she believed that there was more than there was?  I see that exact same scenario on her season.  She hasn't really pulled back from those she knows aren't the "one".

[ribboninthesky1]

 I'm guessing Andi wants some kind of entertainment job, but it won't be easy because she frowns too much and probably can't help it.

 

I'm not an Andi fan, but I do feel for her in this regard.  As someone who furrows their brow a lot, especially when I'm focused, and doesn't have a friendly resting face, I can relate.  If she's trying to be in entertainment, though, that'll definitely be a barrier, especially as a woman.  You know women aren't allowed to look serious or unapproachable, especially in a romantic context.

[truthaboutluv]

It's also interesting to me to compare her rant at Juan Pablo to the direction she seems to be taking with her men.  After all, wasn't she upset that he led her on and she believed that there was more than there was?  I see that exact same scenario on her season.  She hasn't really pulled back from those she knows aren't the "one".

 

 

Admittedly I checked out of Juan Pablo's season by episode 3, once I realized the utter mess it was going to be, as amusingly train-wrecky as the whole thing was. But I did check out Andi's big exit online the day after everyone was talking about it, and I don't remember her issue with Juan Pablo being that he led her on, and more that she really saw him for the self-obsessed moron he was when they finally got to spend a few uninterrupted hours alone together. She kept stressing that he basically asked her almost nothing about herself and the few times she tried to talk about something, he found a way to bring it back around to himself. And then there was the infamous "it's okay" in response to everything, that really infuriated her.

 

And I think she also mentioned his talking about the other women during their time and alluding to how Andi was lucky because she barely made it to the Final 3 which yeah, what woman wants to hear that. So I really didn't think Andi's issue with Juan Pablo was about feeling led on - that was more likely Claire. Andi, once she got to spend real time with him away from the camera just decided that he was a narcissistic tool with zero interest in knowing who she really was. And say what you will about Andi but I actually think she has genuinely made an effort to have real conversations with most of the guys and get to know who they are.

Edited July 10, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Bella]

I saw the JPablo thing the way you did, @truthaboutluv . 

[backformore]

truthaboutluv: No matter how much they may want to, those guys can't always say exactly how they feel or what they think as she literally has the power to just send them away. And stuck in that bubble, caught up in the "competition" no matter how much they may not want to admit it, they get terrified of not getting a rose. So how true and honest can the relationship really be?

RIGHT.  The relationships on the show start out unbalanced, because the power is all on one side.   If you piss off the B - you're out!  She makes all the decisions.  Where you go on dates, what you'll do.   If the B decides you have to strip, jump off a building, whatever - shut up and DO IT, or you're out.   No negotiating, No second chances. If you say you're not comfortable doing something, you're portrayed as a bad sport.   So, in competing for a rose, you have to act like you do in a job interview - constantly trying to impress that you are the BEST candidate for the job.  And once you're chosen, you can always bow out if it's not a good fit.

 

In real life, if a date tries to talk you into stripping, doing a nude commercial (for charity!) or some variation of bungee-jumping, rappleing. whatever, when you do not want to - that person is being an asshole.   On the 'B' show - it's normal date behavior to push someone you just met to do something they really don't want to do. 

[violetr]

If she's trying to be in entertainment, though, that'll definitely be a barrier, especially as a woman.  You know women aren't allowed to look serious or unapproachable, especially in a romantic context.

 

Thank you so much for saying this. I've said from the beginning that I'm a fan of Andi's Grump Cat expressions, and I think this is largely because women on TV generally aren't really allowed to do anything that's not done prettily. I will take her genuine expressions over phony Emily or simpering Des any day. To me it's sort of like seeing larger women on TV. The more we see it, the more we'll get used to it.

[JudyObscure]

I agree Backformore. I think it would make the show, and the entire process, better if there was sort of an unwritten rule that if someone refuses to do an activity, or argues with the B about something -- she/he doesn't get cut at the very next rose ceremony. That person would be given a week to recover favor. It would add an element of freedom for the cast and it would make better viewing for me if more people felt able to talk back to the star.

Eric was a good example. I didn't totally agree with his criticism of Andi's "acting," but it gave us a peek at Andi's angry side and she had a chance to tell us all how exhausting the show was for her. If she hadn't been able to send him off in a huff, Eric might have eventually become one of her favorites. Who doesn't like a person who respects us enough to demand our best?

[riff-raff]

One little Andi mannerism that's been vaguely bugging me is the big, jaw-dropped, open-mouthed smile she makes when she is trying to appear extra-enthusiatic about something.  I first really noticed it on the ill-fated Cody-date, because I couldn't understand why she seemed so over-the-top giddy to be spending a day reading love letters with Cody.  Now, I think it may be a tell of when she's faking it.  

 

In a fit of boredom, I just watched the very beginning of each of her home town dates.  She greeted every guy, save one, with that big open-mouthed smile, usually accompanied by a big "hiiiiiiii."   The one guy she didn't do that with was Josh.  She was just doing a more normal ear-to-ear grin with him.

 

I hope I'm wrong, because i really think that Nick would be a more interesting pick for her, but re-watching those greetings, I'm going to be shocked if she doesn't pick Josh.   The smile is very convincing tho.  I can see why the guys have been drawn in.  

 

[jette]

Just popping in to say: the way that Andi holds the boutonnieres at the rose ceremonies irritates me to no end. I'm not sure why, maybe it's the grumpy cat expression that accompanies the pose, but I just cannot bear to watch her handing out roses. Never had this problem with any other girl / guy and it's totally ruining the cheesy goodness that is the rose ceremony.

[Stella MD]

Speaking of the Bachlerette boutonnieres: how the hell are they attached? Every boutonniere I've ever placed in my life (admittedly not many) involved some complicated, two-handed safety-pin wrangling and even then rarely looked right on the first try. Yet Andi manages to attach them perfectly in seconds with one hand. It bugs/perplexes me every week!

[ribboninthesky1]

I assumed they used something like magnets, because otherwise, half the show would be watching the bachelorette pinning those things on the men.  Stella MD, I've had similar experiences, thought I was just a clumsy oaf.

[Mrsjumbo]

Just popping in to say: the way that Andi holds the boutonnieres at the rose ceremonies irritates me to no end. I'm not sure why, maybe it's the grumpy cat expression that accompanies the pose, but I just cannot bear to watch her handing out roses. Never had this problem with any other girl / guy and it's totally ruining the cheesy goodness that is the rose ceremony.

I agree. I don't know why the way she holds the rose is so annoying, but maybe because she's not holding it naturally & at an awkward angle? Bugs me too!

I have noticed that wide open fake smile so much & I haven't even watched every episode. Besides Grumpy Cat, that seems to be one of her favorite expressions! And I only noticed it because she had her mouth wide open for so long that it looked strange.

[TheFinalRose]

Speaking of the Bachlerette boutonnieres: how the hell are they attached?

 

 

They are magnets.

 

Just popping in to say: the way that Andi holds the boutonnieres at the rose ceremonies irritates me to no end. I'm not sure why, maybe it's the grumpy cat expression that accompanies the pose, but I just cannot bear to watch her handing out roses. Never had this problem with any other girl / guy and it's totally ruining the cheesy goodness that is the rose ceremony.

 

 

I'm so glad you brought that up because it was bugging the heck out of me too. The only way I can account for it is that maybe from one camera angle the rose is too in her face, so they tell her to "stand just so and put the rose right there" but when that position is filmed from the side she looks like she is just holding the rose up in the air like an idiot. It's probably the production people who are making her pose with the rose the way she does but it looks really really stupid. 

[leighdear]

The roses have magnets.  The lead holds them with 2 hands, one grasping the rose itself and one grasping the magnet backing.  That way when the chosen one approaches, she can pull them apart,  place the rose against his lapel and side the magnet on the underside of the lapel.

 

It definitely doesn't look natural, but it keeps the lead from fumbling.