S03.E10: Friends and Family

[Trini]

Quote

Dr. Shaun Murphy visits his father on his deathbed and the family reunion reveals unexpected results. Meanwhile, Dr. Neil Melendez, Dr. Alex Park, Dr. Morgan Reznick and Dr. Claire Browne treat an injured star NFL player with severe spinal damage; and Claire addresses her mental health.

Guest starring is Michael Trucco as Ethan Murphy and Joanna Going as Marcie Murphy.

Written by Tommy Moran and directed by Mike Listo.

Airdate: 12/ 02/2019

[tkc]

How reasonable it it to be infuriated by a fictional character?

Is there any excuse for what Shaun’s father said to him?

Edited December 3, 2019 by tkc

[Madding crowd]

This was a heartbreaking episode. I’m glad Lea was there for him, she gets Shaun. I also thought Glassman did a good job of feeling helpless to do anything for Shaun.

Good for Claire for getting help.

[Annber03]

...oh, Shaun... 

Damn. That was...intense, to say the very least. The visit to Steve's grave and the funeral flashbacks, Shaun getting a hug from his mom, his dad leaving him with those awful, awful words... Just rip my heart out, show, why don't you? 

I liked the subtleties in Glassman's words and actions this episode. In many ways I think he needed to ease up and not put so much pressure on Shaun, but when you think about his own history with his daughter, it makes his reaction all of this a lot more understandable as a result. And I am glad that he was there for Shaun throughout all of this, in ways Shaun's own dad never could. This was a nice throwback to how their relationship was at the start of the show. 

I also liked Lea being there as well, as a balance of sorts to Glassman. That ending with her coming to comfort him was touching. Though, yes, it'll be interesting to see how their interaction here plays out going forward...

Just. Wow. Yeah. That was some serious emotional overload, that storyline. I wonder if this is the last we'll see of Shaun's mom. 

As for the other stuff that happened this episode..."Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Probably someone else's." Easy there, Morgan. 

But yay at that ending, with Claire going to talk to somebody. I liked her interaction with the football player, and their talk about wanting to do right by one's mom. 

Okay. Now I need to go find something lighter to watch! Look forward to the show's return in about a month or so, then. 

[Lady Calypso]

Poor Shaun. I have so many feels for him. Both his parents suck. Obviously his dad sucks for continuing to be an abusive hated asshole right until the bitter end, but let's not pretend that Shaun's mother is any better. She's a huge enabler and she kept pushing for Shaun to be nice to his abusive dickhead dad. I don't feel any sympathy for the dead dad nor for his mother. I hope Shaun officially cuts contact with his mother and gets Glassman to do the same. 

I'm glad Glassman and Lea were there for him in different ways. Both tried their very best but in the end, it was really up to Shaun to figure out what he wanted. I'm glad he let Lea in with that comforting embrace in the end.

I'm glad Claire seems to finally be getting the help that she needs. Her case with the football player was really well done.

[Good Doctor Fan]

A very intense episode.  I’m glad to see more back story on Shaun and his parents.  There’s no excuse for how they treated Shaun and his brother, but still it’s good to put it into more context. 
 

I loved Leah with Shaun.  I’m glad they showcased their relationship and showed how Leah is good for him.  Glassman seemed jealous.  Guess we will have to wait to find out what sleeping with Leah holding him all night meant to Shaun. I gotta say it was a relief to see that happen without all the stress and frustration of Shaun’s interactions with Carly.  

[Quiet1]

Unpopular opinion I know, but I don't like Lea and I really, really don't like Lea and Shaun together. She comes across as a user to me and fair weather friend. If they keep them platonic and her not shown much I can tolerate it but nothing more please. I love Claire and her story line is always interesting to me.

[Driad]

The football player story seemed to need more time. Before the surgery, shouldn't his head have been immobilized to avoid the possibility of further injury to his neck? After the surgery, wouldn't his doctors recommend that he not play again?

[possibilities]

The main difference I see between Lea and Carly is that Lea is relaxed around Shaun and Carly seems self-conscious and guarded. I can see how Shaun might like not being treated like a delicate object, but it's hard for me because I don't like Lea and consider her flaky and annoying, where Carly is nerdy and serious, and that's more to my liking.

However, Shaun gets to decide what he likes.

I can't stand Glassman because it's always all about Glassman's own issues, projecting onto Shaun. And he does pressure him a lot, and try to control him. I get he was trying to help but he's very bad at it and it's not the first time.

[JKL845]

16 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The main difference I see between Lea and Carly is that Lea is relaxed around Shaun and Carly seems self-conscious and guarded. I can see how Shaun might like not being treated like a delicate object, but it's hard for me because I don't like Lea and consider her flaky and annoying, where Carly is nerdy and serious, and that's more to my liking.

However, Shaun gets to decide what he likes.

Or the writers do anyway😊 I understand this is out of the norm and the comfort was probably welcome but if they are realistic Shaun should have his same issues with anyone. 

[PinkRibbons]

I thought this was a really interesting episode for Glassman. You could see he was seeing the situation through his relationship with Maddie, and skewing a little too hard to the father's favor. At the same time, by putting himself in Shaun's father's shoes, he probably never imagined someone acting the way he did to their own child. Glassman made mistakes but he was never ever that kind of vile abuser to Maddie, and it's really hard to see how anyone could be. If he'd been able to step back a little from the situation he might have realized how high the chances were of the whole thing turning as ugly as it did, and not tried to push so much for closure. I think he realized that in the end and didn't quite know what do with himself. If he'd been there when Shaun started falling apart I'm sure he would have been just as comforting as Lea.

[bros402]

This episode was good. I liked Glassman in this episode.

We did not get enough time with the football player plot - they should've just had the people back at the hospital do some smaller stuff like just being in the ER dealing with minor stuff. Save the football player plot for a less packed episode.

[mojito]

This episode didn't do much for me. I barely remember Shaun's past with his parents, and still don't care. I don't feel that my understanding of Shaun is any different than before, and as much as the show tried to manipulate my emotions, it felt soapy and more like a filler episode than anything else. 

Someone needs to teach Shaun to lock his motel door.

Edited December 4, 2019 by mojito

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

The main difference I see between Lea and Carly is that Lea is relaxed around Shaun and Carly seems self-conscious and guarded. I can see how Shaun might like not being treated like a delicate object, but it's hard for me because I don't like Lea and consider her flaky and annoying, where Carly is nerdy and serious, and that's more to my liking.

However, Shaun gets to decide what he likes.

I can't stand Glassman because it's always all about Glassman's own issues, projecting onto Shaun. And he does pressure him a lot, and try to control him. I get he was trying to help but he's very bad at it and it's not the first time.

I'm in the same boat. I've always said that I don't like Lea. She's been used better this season as a best friend and very minimally, but last season completely soured me on her. I didn't mind her in season 1, but hated her in season 2 because there was too much of Lea. 

There are obvious differences with Lea and Carly and how they interact with Shaun. The thing about Lea is that I do find her a solid best friend, but never thought they had romantic potential. Carly/Shaun is a potentially interesting couple and I found that last season, but this season has its issues of telling and not showing. And then they choose to only show the issues with Carly and Shaun, and not the good moments. So it does feel uneven and I'm afraid that we're heading back into a Shaun/Lea romantic storyline.

Shaun allowing Lea to embrace him shouldn't mean that Shaun loves Lea romantically to me. I think it can mean that he needs different types of comfort from different types of people. 

Agreed with the Glassman stuff. Glassman is very, very pushy. I get that Shaun needs the push. I actually appreciated both Glassman and Lea in this episode because they both did things that I agreed with, and then did things that I didn't agree with. 

For example, Lea telling Shaun that he didn't need to go in to the house when they were in the car was what I agreed with. Lea telling Shaun that he didn't need to see his father when they were at Steve's grave was something I didn't agree with (as I think Shaun would have absolutely taken her up on that offer and left). On the other hand, at some points, Glassman was pushing too hard, but I also agreed with some of the moments where he did push, as Shaun sometimes needs the push to get out of his comfort zone. 

The issue with Lea and Glassman is that they both can go way too far in their choices when it comes to Shaun and it often confuses him. I will say that I love seeing their animosity toward each other. I'm actually glad that has stayed consistent.

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, Quiet1 said:

Unpopular opinion I know, but I don't like Lea and I really, really don't like Lea and Shaun together. She comes across as a user to me and fair weather friend. If they keep them platonic and her not shown much I can tolerate it but nothing more please. I love Claire and her story line is always interesting to me.

Not so unpopular.  I dislike Lea as anything but a roommate and platonic friend.  At the end when she is hugging him i was like "oh show do not go there".  I do not like Lea as a romantic partner for Shaun and would rather see more Carly.

Heartbreaking that Shaun's dad was a dick at the end and that his mom was such an enabler.  I would have liked to known how Shaun faired with Glassman in those early years under his care without Steve.  Maybe even some flash backs on how he did at his first run in medical school?  

[Good Doctor Fan]

It was great to see Clair moving forward with her problems.  There has not been enough interaction between Clair/Shaun in season 2 or 3 so far.  Come on writers, it’s time for that to change!  
 

[vibeology]

This episode made me angry. Shaun's parents are awful people. Both of them. I hated so much the way they tried to excuse their behavior because raising Shaun was hard. I'm sure it was but that will never excuse punching, hitting and killing animals. And Shaun was right; his dad's actions are what led to Steve's death. It was an unsafe household and leaving was the only option available to those kids. His father is garbage and I cheered when Shaun told him off. Of course going back left Shaun with awful memories. His mother, also garbage, and not just an enabler. Showing up at the restaurant with that sad face and asking for a hug when she knows Shaun isn't big on touching was some grade A manipulation.

Lea and Glassman both carry their own family baggage into the situation but they both were putting Shaun first and I think balanced each other well. I don't worry that Lea acting as a human thunder vest is going to become something romantic with Shaun. He needed that and she gets him well enough to know it. We haven't seen too much of their friendship but it's pretty clear that they've got a close relationship considering Lea took off work and everything to have his back.

I'm happy that Claire seems to be making healthy choices now. I hope it sticks. Between the gym and seeking out her therapist I have a lot of hope. I was annoyed at Park who was treating her like a child. Morgan teased her like a friend but Park was being a jerk.

[SunnyBeBe]

10 hours ago, Quiet1 said:

Unpopular opinion I know, but I don't like Lea and I really, really don't like Lea and Shaun together. She comes across as a user to me and fair weather friend. If they keep them platonic and her not shown much I can tolerate it but nothing more please. I love Claire and her story line is always interesting to me.

I agree. Lea is a very annoying person, imo. She hasn't been focused on lately, but, it's there.  She has some good traits, but, she also has a cruel and selfish streak in her. I agreed with her about not pushing Shaun to see his parents, but, she really went too far on the lake scene. First of all, why must you PUSH someone to do something that they don't want to do? Especially, if it's dangerous?  After Shaun declined to go into the water, she goes overboard insisting that he do it. (Why do some friends think they are the boss of you?)   THEN, she has the nerve to pretend to be drowned, frightening Shaun.  AND, he was right.  Swimming at night, after consuming alcohol is pretty crazy.  Plus, I recall the way she threw her love making with another guy in Shaun's face in a previous season.  NOT nice at all and she knew it bothered him.  To me, this is borderline abusive behavior and that is something that an adult who underwent abuse as a child doesn't need.  I really hope they don't go there with her and Shaun.  As immature as Shaun may be, she's more so.

Years ago, I think it was commonly believed that saying goodbye to dying loved ones, EVEN if they abused you was a good thing.  It was supposed to be therapeutic in someway.  But, it seems that that notion has been debunked and you don't need to do that. It is OKAY to cut off toxic people, even family members.  I hope we never see Shaun's mom again.  

[CoyoteBlue]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

I can't stand Glassman because it's always all about Glassman's own issues, projecting onto Shaun. And he does pressure him a lot, and try to control him. I get he was trying to help but he's very bad at it and it's not the first time.

THIS! And sorry if you have regrets as a father, Glassman, but Shaun did NOT need to go back to his abusive parents for anything. So his dad dies! So what? Good riddance! What earthly good did it do to rip that old wound open just so they could pour salt in it? There was never an indication that Shaun needed some good old Hollywood "closure", so they just dragged him into that for their own purposes.                                                                    

[preeya]

No Debbie, no Lim, no Carley.

Football guy should never play again.

Bye, bye Shawn's Papa, "burn in hell."   Hope that ends that arc.

Glassman: Shawn is not your mirror image. Don't inject your feelings on him, he's unique.

Edited December 3, 2019 by preeya

[HeShallBMySquishy]

34 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

THIS! And sorry if you have regrets as a father, Glassman, but Shaun did NOT need to go back to his abusive parents for anything. So his dad dies! So what? Good riddance! What earthly good did it do to rip that old wound open just so they could pour salt in it? There was never an indication that Shaun needed some good old Hollywood "closure", so they just dragged him into that for their own purposes.                                                                    

Exactly! And was their ever any indication over the past few years that Shaun needed that type of closure regarding his father, or his mother, for that matter? And then Glassman mentions to Lea in her motel room about ripping the wound open, so he was definitely aware of it.

[morriss]

Can pain medication actually cause an outburst like that?  Or was Shaun 's mother just covering for the father by saying that? 

[DearEvette]

Gah! I hated this episode.

Morgan slut shaming Claire was a total bitchass move.

I hate the idea that kids (or anyone really) has to have some closure or forgive a toxic parent or family member who is about to die.  If the person was a complete and total asshole abuser, then getting away from them is complete and total self care.  Death doesn't change how they treated you in life.

Also I forgot why I disliked Lea so much last season because she was so toned down this season, but it took one episode of her doing her schtick and I immediately remembered why I dislike her.

The only thing I really liked was that it looks like Claire is finally turning a corner and I liked the way Park and Melendez showed their nonjudgmental support.  And I liked the football case even though it wasn't given the time, imo, to really play out.

[rhys]

If anyone would know the way morphine will act, it will be Shaun. It was stupid of his mom to try that line. At most she could have said drug cocktail. Still, that's grasping. Dad Murphy was a dick who I can't imagine wanting to be so cruel. Why? To what purpose did that comment serve?

[rmontro]

Well, I guess Shaun's dad really was an a-hole.

I have huge doubts about Shaun's relationship with Carly, but I hope they don't stick him in a relationship with Lea now.  Because Lea has always made it very clear she has no romantic interest in Shaun, and only sees him as a friend.  It would seem disingenuous to switch that up now.

From Carly's perspective, you would think that the last thing you would have to worry about when dating a person with autism is him cheating on you, but apparently that is not the case.

[tennisgurl]

15 hours ago, tkc said:

Is there any excuse for what Shaun’s father said to him?

Oh dont worry, I am sure that Mrs. Murphy has about forty of them ready to go! 

That was such a heart breaker, poor poor Shaun. It seemed like his dad really had seen the light on his death bed, but it turns out that, nope he is still the same awful abusive hateful piece of shit that he always was, even as Shaun tries to forgive him and be the bigger person. He is just a horrible bitter creep, who still cant take responsibility for his own actions that got his son killed and horribly hurt the other one. What a horrible sack of crap, and I dont have anything good to say about his mother either. She is a enabler who picked her horrible husband over her own sons, and just keeps making excuse after excuse for his awful behavior. Oh, he just wanted a different kind of son! Oh, it was a different time and we didnt know how to deal with an autistic child (because apparently sons childhood took place in the 1300s, not the, what, early 90s?)! Oh, I didnt choose my piece of crap husband over my young sons, I just liked dealing with a drunk more than an autistic kid! Oh, its the morphine that made him say those horrible unforgivable things, even though thats not at all how that works! Even after her husbands abuse led to the death of one of her sons and the other one leaving forever, she is still making excuses for him and choosing him over her kids, over and over again, no matter how many horrible things he did. I did kind of like how things ended, even if it was horribly sad for Shaun. There was for awhile this huge push for people to reconcile and forgive abusive family members, especially if they were dying, and while it can probably give some people closure depending on the situation, in a lot of situations, it just picks at old wounds for no reason and pushes people to try and be nice to people who really dont deserve it, and from what I have read, its often not very helpful. Some people are just awful and dont deserve forgiveness, and its an interesting note to leave the episode on. 

Interesting episode for Glassman, as while he was doing everything he could to support Shaun, it was clear that he was filtering a lot of this through his own experiences with Maddie, and was putting himself into Shaun's dads shoes and pushing for Shaun to get closure with his father in a way that he never did with Maddie. I think he just never considered that Shaun's father wouldn't take that olive branch the way that Glassman would have in a heartbeat, and what a terrible person he really was. So while he did really seem to think this was in Shaun's best interest, he ended up just hurting him more and opening up old wounds.  

I liked Claire's talk with the football player and that it helped inspire her to finally get help. I hope that this is the start of Claire getting back to herself!

Freddie Highmore is so freaking good, he is just riveting. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone know if Highmore has won any awards for his role on this show?  He sure deserves them. Compared to other leading actors in a drama......he's really outstanding.  I can't imagine anyone better. 

[Fable]

Oh Leah, just when I was starting to come around on you, you pull that prank of trying to frighten Shaun into coming in the lake.  At least she was supportive and whether or not her ideas were sound or ill-thought-out, she was there for him, and he seems to appreciate her friendship, so she didn’t lose all my good will. 

Glassman is also a good support system for him, and while perhaps pushy and maybe projecting his own issues on Shaun, he certainly cares for him much more than his creep of a father did.  Even though he may wrongly have thought Shaun needed closure, he certainly had good intentions with Shaun’s best interest at heart.

In other news, I found it a little funny that Melendez shut down the small talk during the procedure.  These are people who are always having various discussions while operating. 

[Kuu-uurija]

3 hours ago, morriss said:

Can pain medication actually cause an outburst like that?  Or was Shaun 's mother just covering for the father by saying that? 

Pain, especially physical pain makes people to say horrible things. Even nice people say disgusting things, they just hold on a bit longer. You can just imagine what pain makes horrible people to say. Something we just saw here.

[Annber03]

50 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know if Highmore has won any awards for his role on this show?  He sure deserves them. Compared to other leading actors in a drama......he's really outstanding.  I can't imagine anyone better. 

He was nominated for a Golden Globe a couple years ago, but no, he hasn't won anything for it thus far. How the Emmys keep overlooking him all these years, I will never understand. 

[ECM1231]

Wow, what a piece of work Shaun's dad is/was!  

I started watching this show last season so I had only gleaned that Shaun's home life was not good. I don't have Hulu so I need to check if season 1 is available On Demand.

Can someone just give me the briefest synopsis of how Dr. Glassman came to be Shaun's 'guardian' ? Also, how did Shaun's younger brother die?

My heart broke for Shaun...I'm continually amazed by Freddie Highmore's acting chops!  Also, were they intimating that Shaun and Lea consummated their relationship in the hotel room?  Buh bye Carly!

[KaveDweller]

4 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Wow, what a piece of work Shaun's dad is/was!  

I started watching this show last season so I had only gleaned that Shaun's home life was not good. I don't have Hulu so I need to check if season 1 is available On Demand.

Can someone just give me the briefest synopsis of how Dr. Glassman came to be Shaun's 'guardian' ? Also, how did Shaun's younger brother die?

My heart broke for Shaun...I'm continually amazed by Freddie Highmore's acting chops!  Also, were they intimating that Shaun and Lea consummated their relationship in the hotel room?  Buh bye Carly!

If I am remembering correctly, Shaun and his brother met some other kids when they ran away. They were playing with them by an old train (or something they were climbing on), and the brother fell off and hit his head. 

I hope they were not intimating that Shaun and Lea had sex. I thought they were just showing that Lea was comforting Shaun and Shaun was able to accept it, when he couldn't accept it from Carly.

This could mean that Shaun still has feelings for Lea, or it could mean he was comfortable because Lea is just a friend and he wasn't scared of it turning into something more. But either way, I am thinking it signals the end of Shaun and Carly's relationship. Hopefully it is not also the start of a relationship between Shaun and Lea. I like them as friends, and it would be a huge turnaround to suddenly have Lea be into Shaun.  Shaun being (possibly) into her doesn't mean Lea has to return those feelings.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know if Highmore has won any awards for his role on this show?  He sure deserves them. Compared to other leading actors in a drama......he's really outstanding.  I can't imagine anyone better. 

The scenes in the motel room(s) took my mind straight to the Bates Motel.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, preeya said:

The scenes in the motel room(s) took my mind straight to the Bates Motel.

My mom was watching with me, and she even said at one point, "Don't go into a motel room with him!" :p. 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

My mom was watching with me, and she even said at one point, "Don't go into a motel room with him!" :p. 

And please, don't take a shower!

[sadie]

Dear Carly, he’s just not that into you.

That is all. 😊

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I hope they were not intimating that Shaun and Lea had sex.

I thought that intimation was pretty clear from the next episode preview.

[mojito]

4 hours ago, Fable said:

Oh Leah, just when I was starting to come around on you, you pull that prank of trying to frighten Shaun into coming in the lake.  At least she was supportive and whether or not her ideas were sound or ill-thought-out, she was there for him, and he seems to appreciate her friendship, so she didn’t lose all my good will. 

Glassman is also a good support system for him, and while perhaps pushy and maybe projecting his own issues on Shaun, he certainly cares for him much more than his creep of a father did.  Even though he may wrongly have thought Shaun needed closure, he certainly had good intentions with Shaun’s best interest at heart.

In other news, I found it a little funny that Melendez shut down the small talk during the procedure.  These are people who are always having various discussions while operating. 

Leah and Glassman are two people who influence Shaun's life in very different ways. Mostly, they're good for him. Sometimes, they're approach doesn't work. They aren't perfect people. 

[ECM1231]

Thanks, KaveDweller, for the info about Shaun's brother.

[KaveDweller]

35 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

I thought that intimation was pretty clear from the next episode preview.

Previews are not always an accurate portrayal of what actually happens in an episode.

[catrice2]

10 hours ago, Good Doctor Fan said:

It was great to see Clair moving forward with her problems.  There has not been enough interaction between Clair/Shaun in season 2 or 3 so far.  Come on writers, it’s time for that to change!  
 

I know...especially since they got rid of Jared who was kind of a person for both Shaun and Claire...Resnick and Park are no replacement for me.

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Previews are not always an accurate portrayal of what actually happens in an episode.

I know. I am actually hoping they surprise us and what Shaun realizes is that he has now been "held" by two women and he only feels certain feelings towards Carly.  But writers always take the easy way out.....

[catrice2]

31 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

But they are always there for him, unlike his so called parents. 

Sometimes your family is the family you choose and not the one you are born with. 

I would much rather see Jared helping Shaun navigate the dating and intimacy scene. I would also like to see how he would have reacted to Claire's drama.  I am so tired of Claire having drama.   In my perfect scenario Leah would have run off with Shaun's worthless user of a neighbor whose name I cannot remember.....

[amarante]

I don't think the "pain" or the "morphine" made the father say those things.

In vino veritas - morphine might have acted as a disinhibitor just as alcohol does so that one lets the "real" person out. However, in my experience, if one is about to die and is morphined up, one is not lucid so one is not going to make that kind of very direct angry focused speech.

What I don't understand is why the parents felt the need to reconcile with Shaun. This wasn't at all like the standard slightly dysfunctional household. But then I am not really a "fan" of death bed reconciliations as I don't think anyone solves a lifetime of true dysfunction; forgives or has closure through one conversation.

[MaryHedwig]

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I hope they were not intimating that Shaun and Lea had sex. I thought they were just showing that Lea was comforting Shaun and Shaun was able to accept it, when he couldn't accept it from Carly.

I think that the position they both in was a chaste one to signal that they would not be having sex (if I understand common TV code for those things). My hunch is they fell asleep that way both wake up somewhat surprised in the morning.

[Robert Lynch]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

He was nominated for a Golden Globe a couple years ago, but no, he hasn't won anything for it thus far. How the Emmys keep overlooking him all these years, I will never understand. 

He should have won for Bates Motel! Norman is the greatest character he ever did. Since Anne Rice is doing the VC series starting with the 2nd book, hire this guy as Nicholas de Lenfent! I know Freddie could dedicate a character like no other. He's a tragic character in the book, but Freddie would be the scene stealer. Why Freddie never won at all is something I'll never understand.

[thuganomics85]

Yep, the show made sure to go all in with the sadness and feels for this one!

I see they recasted Shaun's parents from pilot, with more recognizable faces this go around (Michael Trucco and Joanna Going), which is understandable, since they really did need more established actors for the more meaty material.  I thought they did great jobs here, even if we sadly find out that, yes, they're the worst.  Granted, in television/film, it is almost impossible to come back from killing or harming an animal, so Dad Murphy was probably always going to be horrible, but even then, it was hard watching it look like he and Shaun found peace, only to reveal his true feelings.  And, of course, mom continue to support him to the very end.  Poor Shaun. 

While Lea definitely can be a bit much (the lake scene was overboard), I'm okay with her finally getting more material since I do think Paige Spara is a winning actress.  And I found both her and Glassman interesting here.  I think that both of them truly care about Shaun without a doubt, but I think the flaw both of them have is that they sometimes project how they actually feel or handle a situation, and don't really stop and think about how does Shaun feel about things.  Glassman clearly is someone who believe in forgiveness and closure, while Lea is someone who thinks it is better to just cut ties on those who deserve it, but neither one really seems to stop and think that maybe what is best for them, won't be best for Shaun.  Never the less, I think both really are trying and are supportive, and that's a good thing, despite their missteps.  If anything, they're Shaun's true family.

Which is why I'm a little concern if they actually try something again with Shaun/Lea.  I can see how this might bring them closer together, but I really don't think a romance between them will work, and I'm already prepared to be annoyed if it causes a love triangle between them and Carly.  To be fair, none of these relationships could end up working for him (I still suspect the long-term plan for the show is to eventually try Shaun/Claire), but I really don't want to deal with atypical romantic drama here.

Kind of wish we had more time on the case of the week, since it was kind of interesting.  I'm glad Claire is actually seeing a therapist now!  Reznick has somehow gone back to being a complete jackass, but at least Park was awesome.  Cracked up over how unimpressed he was with Claire dramatically dropping her phone in the coffee and just being like "Uh, that was dumb.  How can anyone page you, now?"  Logical Park is my favorite Park (well, either that or "Hilarious Reaction Shot Park")!

Have to wait till January now!

[Ragingviolet]

10 hours ago, rmontro said:

I have huge doubts about Shaun's relationship with Carly, but I hope they don't stick him in a relationship with Lea now.  Because Lea has always made it very clear she has no romantic interest in Shaun, and only sees him as a friend.  It would seem disingenuous to switch that up now.

I am confused why there are so many comments speculating about Lea and Shaun becoming an item because she was comforting him?  I have a male friend who we both have no romantic interests in each other, in fact I think he might be on the spectrum.  A few months ago I got some really devastating news and he came over and held me while I cried until we both fell asleep.  We got up the next morning.  Went for waffles and continued on with our friendship.  When you are single you need people around who will hold you when you need it and it wont' turn into having to worry about sex.

[Lsk02]

38 minutes ago, Ragingviolet said:

I am confused why there are so many comments speculating about Lea and Shaun becoming an item because she was comforting him?  I have a male friend who we both have no romantic interests in each other, in fact I think he might be on the spectrum.  A few months ago I got some really devastating news and he came over and held me while I cried until we both fell asleep.  We got up the next morning.  Went for waffles and continued on with our friendship.  When you are single you need people around who will hold you when you need it and it wont' turn into having to worry about sex.

I don’t want to spoil it if you didn’t see, but the preview for the next episode is what has so many speculating. I didn’t think anything of the ending until I saw that. 

[bros402]

I hope that Shaun having this wounds reopened will lead to him getting therapy. This would be the perfect time for the writers to put that into the plot - a neutral third party to help Shaun learn how to manage some feelings. They could even inject drama into it - have him have some therapists he doesn't like, maybe have him have a meltdown in the middle of a session, or maybe have a therapist yell at him (I've actually had that)!

Edited December 4, 2019 by bros402

[possibilities]

I do wish there had been more Shaun-Claire interaction this season. I would have loved to see his reaction to Claire's reaction to losing her mother. He might have had perspective for her, about letting go of people who aren't capable of loving you and not disappointing you. Shaun actually had real love from his brother, and knows the difference between people who abuse you and people who don't. Claire might not actually have as clear an idea of that as he does.

The whole closure thing always seems to come from people who aren't the ones who were abused. It's a fantasy for people who didn't really experience it, to think it wasn't that bad. In my experience, people who were horribly abused are WAY more likely to give too much slack to the abusers, and NOT set healthy boundaries to fully separate. Once you finally do cut those people off, you can start to be sane and healthy again.

I know the parents hadn't changed because they were making demands and not offering anything. If they wanted to apologize, they could have written Shaun a letter a long time ago, and not waited til dad was 10 seconds from death, and demanded Shaun appear at their sides and take all their manipulative guilt tripping and pleading for him to comfort them, with everything from hugs to forgiveness.

Reconciliation is for people who have truly changed and made amends. It's not for people who are still clueless, self-absorbed, making excuses, making demands, and just looking for a way out of their own pain.