S04.E04: Flip a Coin

[kili]

Quote

My kids weren't blind but would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around.

A lot of babies have sensitive ears and don't enjoy the cacophony of sound those kinds of classes offer. This may not be the class for Jack.

For a show titled "Flip a coin" - did we see any coins being flipped? There were a few cases where characters were told to flip a coin and they just blurted out their choice.

Kevin saved that pilot be deciding to calm the child. That showed his true charm. Kevin used to be a little annoyed when people mentioned "The Mannie", but now he fully embraces it. He's so much happier and comfortable in his skin than he once was. Kevin is used to living in one of those trailers - they use ones just like that for filming. He is a total Labrador to Nicky's old cat who just want to be left alone.

I think finding out your 14 year old daughter is dating the dad of a 6 month old would give most parents pause.  Even if Malik is the greatest kid in the world, do you want your daughter to take on a parenthood role so young? Live life a little first. And as it turns out, Malik is a dumbass that thinks dealing dope is the way to get his daughter into the best daycares, so Randall and Beth are more right to pause than even they know.

Thanks for coming Carol and raining all over opening day. Her disapproval stunk up the joint more than the dead possum. And stop ragging on your son-in-law. He's not going anywhere and he just politely offered to help you unload the car. No reason to rebuff him and make things awkward. And way to look down your nose at somebody who lost her husband, her house and everything she owned suddenly all on the same day.  That's not regal, that's cold.

Love Kate's new boyfriend. He seems intrigued by her and instantly connected. I wonder what goes wrong with him.  Kate's interactions with Toby were not healthy. She's clearly not over him losing the weight and she always makes him desperately jump through so many hoops.  He's constantly on pins and needles waiting for the next time he messes up.

[Kktjones]

6 minutes ago, kili said:

Kate's interactions with Toby were not healthy. She's clearly not over him losing the weight and she always makes him desperately jump through so many hoops.  He's constantly on pins and needles waiting for the next time he messes up.

Yeah, there is nothing healthy about where their relationship is at right now. In fact, I feel like poor Toby has been on pins and needles for like 2 full seasons hoping not to say or do the wrong thing to incur Kate's wrath. It's funny b/c I really like Kate when she's with other people, but I just don't like her and Toby AT ALL.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Kktjones

[Ohiopirate02]

I also am seeing the cracks in the Damons.  They are not on the same page when it comes to so many aspects of their lives, and I have always gotten the feeling that they have always been this way.  Season One Kate and Toby were always a moment away from breaking up, and then they got married.  For me, their divorce is a matter of when not if.  Based on what we have seen in the flash forward--Toby without a wedding ring and his reluctance to travel to Kevin's house to say goodbye to Rebecca, I foresee Kate doing something borderline unforgivable to end the marriage.  

[nexxie]

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That last bit with Kevin and the baby on The Manny was gold, as well as Kate and Rebecca dancing together. 

Loved Rebecca connecting with Beth's mom about losing their husbands.

Wow, so Teen Kevin just eloped with Sophie and just called them about it after? Sheesh.

I don't blame Beth and Randall for freaking out when they found out about Malik's baby. They still ought to give him a chance because forbidding Deja from seeing him won't turn out well.

Again, I really reeeeeally don't want Kevin and Cassidy together. What is it about Jennifer Morrison that she always plays characters that are hard to like. Anyway, I hope she works things out with her husband.

I’m hoping Cassidy will grow on me, but right now just NO.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

One thing that strikes me as odd about Malik's story is how little we know about the mother. Her parents wanted to give up the baby for adoption - but what was the girl thinking? And where is she now? I suppose she was from the neighborhood - is she still living there? Going to the same school as Malik? And what are the chances she will sooner or later re-enter the picture?

One possibility is that the young mom died, and thus there opens a door for Randall to relate to that in terms of his own mother dying.  If she is around, we'll be seeing her.  And if not, I bet we see more of Randall's mother in flashback, although I don't know how they'll work that in. 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I wasn't saying that Kevin should be expected to help, believe me.  I've seen how that can go wrong in a family.  I was referring to Kevin's genuineness about having money.  He knows he has it, and everyone else knows he has it.  (This is your Uncle Kevin.  He smells expensive.)  I like Kevin's lack of pretense about it.  His view seems to be "I've got all of this cash.  Why wouldn't I use it to help Nicky or Kate or Jack, etc.?

Posters were mentioning that Kevin attended several of Jack's appointments.  It wouldn't shock me if some of those were specialists and Kevin was the one footing those bills.  From the flash forward, we also know that Rebecca is being cared for at Kevin's house.  I'm quite certain that is not a cheap endeavor, but it jives with Kevin's view of money----as something that can be used to help make someone's life better, and not because Kevin feels that he's expected to do that.  It's something that he genuinely seems to want to do.  So I say, good for him.

I couldn't see Nicky taking any money from Kevin although asking was nice. He would have to feel he earned it some way. He doesn't strike me as the type that would take gifts from a nephew he just really got to know and I hope they show some growth with that.

I realized as @Kktjones stated, Jack was missing and maybe that's why I liked it a little more than usual. Nice break from speeches and seeing the family without him.

I worry about Kate and this young man, maybe he has eyes for her and then cheats and she feels fat next to the "new girl" or whatever but I almost dread the upcoming scenes knowing how she ends up. She seems pretty okay now with moving and "another chapter". I guess that's the hard part in seeing ahead and back, you know the other parts.

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

My guess is this 90s record store dreamboat turns out to be somehow abusive and she eats to cope.

I had the same thought. I hope we're wrong... 😞 

2 hours ago, kili said:

For a show titled "Flip a coin" - did we see any coins being flipped? There were a few cases where characters were told to flip a coin and they just blurted out their choice.

No, I think it was more of a metaphorical coin. Sometimes when you decide to make a decision by flipping a coin, you figure out what you really want by realizing which side you're hoping it lands on while the coin is in the air (at least on TV, since I've similar stories before; I've never tried it). I think the idea is that the split second timing sort of bypasses the indecision part of your brain and gets you to see what you really want.

Edited October 16, 2019 by ams1001

[MissLucas]

A friend of mine did actually flip the coin when she was not sure about a decision. But she waited for the coin to decide and then paid close attention to her emotional reaction to the coin's verdict: relief or disappointment? I think that's the better method and I've also used it once or twice. I was surprised that nobody did really flip a coin and my take on Kevin's plot was that he flipped the coin (unconsciously) the moment he decided to go off-script and try something different with the baby. If he had truly not cared about his career he would have let the whole pilot and his acting career tank.

Edited October 17, 2019 by MissLucas

[ams1001]

Yeah, I've seen that method, too. But they seemed to be going more for a "what does your gut say in this split-second" sort of thing.

[SunnyBeBe]

Maybe, I'm just too pragmatic, but if my rich nephew, who is eager to help out his struggling uncle offered to help, I would have said, thank you, Kevin. That old trailer is worn out. A newer one would be nice, or what about a new roof on my old one. I really appreciate it. I find that these proud people who refuse help are tv cliches and not realistic.

Was it just me or was that dance that Beth broke into really odd? Super awkward to me. The style maybe......

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I worry about Kate and this young man, maybe he has eyes for her and then cheats and she feels fat next to the "new girl" or whatever but I almost dread the upcoming scenes knowing how she ends up.

I think the boyfriend may be part of what happens, but Kevin may be an even larger part.  Kevin and Kate are biological twins.  We've already seen that there's a bond between them.  Now, Kevin has married Sophie.  He's "bonded" to a girl that no longer is Kate.  She may end up feeling replaced, and even if she doesn't, Kevin's relationship dynamic with Kate is not going to be what it once was before his marriage.  If Kate's boyfriend does not turn out to be Grade A boyfriend material, as many already suspect, that, along with the "loss" of Kevin and the actual loss of Jack, could be more than enough to send an emotionally vulnerable teenage Kate into a spiral that leads to where adult Kate is now.

[Blakeston]

I really, really hope they don't give us a plotline where Kate is driven to morbid obesity because the new guy turns out to be a jerk.

I'd find it a lot more realistic if they dated, and she found that she just couldn't match his enthusiasm for the relationship, because at the end of the day she's still deeply depressed. Maybe she'd break things off, figuring they're doomed - or maybe he'd grow sick of her sullen attitude and leave.

It's easy to show up at a record store one day and say you'll take a job, and flirt with a cute guy. Actually holding a job and maintaining a relationship when you have severe depression is the hard part.

[Joana]

23 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Really good episode.  Favorite moment was Beth yelling across the room that the exterminator said it was just one possum.

And the timing of that was impeccable! Just when Randall had the Baby Teen Daddy bomb dropped on him! It really made me laugh.

I'm usually not really a fan of Deja and think the show would be just fine if she had never been introduced in the first place, but she was absolutely fantastic in that scene. She might be growing on me a bit.

I also don't think Randall and Beth are concerned that Malik would get Deja pregnant, but rather that she's nowhere near ready to take a stepmother role in any capacity. And they're absolutely right.

15 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Rebecca embarrassing Randall by inserting herself into Randall's budding relationship with Beth?   Another asshole move.

It was totally one of those Embarrassing Things Moms Do, but without her meddling, I don't think there'd ever be a relationship. After that disaster of a first date, I think Beth would have been happy to ignore Randall's existence for the rest of their college days and he would have been clueless as to how to approach her. This way, she was forced to pay attention to him and decided to give him a chance as a small act of rebellion against her mom, and it all went from there. At least that's how I saw it.

Ah, Kate is back to being her usual delightful self. God, I don't know how anyone can put up with her for more than 15 minutes. OTOH, it was nice to see Teen Kate be nice to her mom for a change and really bond with her. That's what I like about this season, they seem to be expanding the family dynamics a bit and showing us more variety in their everyday lives and interactions. In most families it's not ALWAYS either all sunshine and rainbows or bickering and resentment all the time. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Joana

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

Was it just me or was that dance that Beth broke into really odd? Super awkward to me. The style maybe......

I thought it was because the actress who plays Beth may not have any dance experience. I think it would have been better if TPTB just had her going through the ballet positions. 

[DesertCyclist]

Maybe it's just me, but Justin Hartley has really improved as an actor since S1.

[BuckeyeLou]

Loved this episode, the Teen actors of the Big 3 are a delight.  Totally loved Kate dancing with her Mom, one of the few times we've seen Kate be sweet and thoughtful to her Mom.  Kevin showing that he Really Is a good actor: being charming and accessible to his fans & when he calmed the baby during "The Manny".  Randall standing up to his Mother-in-law: Yay(altho he apologized for his 'tone").  The ending was a "Whoa" moment: Kevin is Married?!  Hmm, wonder if Sophie was pregnant & they felt they Had to get married(and then she lost the baby? So Kevin has an inner longing for a baby?)

[tennisgurl]

Honestly if I met Justin Hartley, I would probably respond a lot like the RV guy. "What are you doing here? Your beautiful!"

I liked quite a lot of this episode, it had a lot of nice scenes, especially with college grad Randall and Kate and Rebecca's serious level embarrassing mom energy at college, and the flashbacks to Kevin at the Manny and his bonding with the baby saving the pilot. 

Randall is the ultimate embarrassing dad, even more than Rebecca in college could ever hope to be embarrassing. You know, its probably not how they meant it to come off, but Beth and Randall came off as so defensive when Deja said she was going to hang out with friends, like they were shocked at the idea that Deja could have friends to hang out with! I dont really blame them for being nervous about Deja dating a kid two years older with a baby, but I hope that the flashback to college Randall and Beth reminds Randall that forbidding Deja to date Malik just makes him MORE appealing to her! Besides, at least he is actually taking care of the baby, and they didnt hear later that he knocked a girl up and then ditched her and the baby. 

Besides, he and Deja are clearly meant to be! I mean, doesent Randall know that he had his own segment in the new Pearson Members episode!?

Yeah of course a blind baby will freak out at a bunch of super intense sounds! Even a baby with sight would probably freak out! And then, after actually handing it pretty well at first, Kate finally gets needlessly pissy about Toby going to the gym. I guess she has just been seething about that this whole time and just took this high stress situation to finally let it out. Real nice communication there Kate.

This subplot desperately needs more timothy Omundson ASAP.

I liked Cassidy more this week, and I do feel bad for her (she just screams misery every time she is on screen) but I still dont know for sure if she and Kevin are a great choice for a couple. Both being addicts dealing with apparently self worth issues, they could feed into each others issues. Or they could help each other heal, which is probably what they will go with if they end up together. Why does Kevin so often end up dating women who are always pissed at him?! 

I really liked the bit where Kevin is telling Cassidy how much he day sucks and how sad and contemplative he feels, and then turning "on" again for the fan he met. I think she was wondering how he manages to act happy so quickly and easily when she struggles not lashing out about her own misery. Of course, Kevin hiding his problems with charm is a bit problem for him, but its a good thing for an actor. 

"I got married...to Sophie...I need some money." Oh Kevin...

[HollyGoLitely333]

On 10/15/2019 at 10:22 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

so now every time Kate’s baby cries , it’s because he’s blind and not because he’s a newborn baby who’s main job it is to cry ? I understand how hard it must be for her , but she needs to take into account that babies cry and it’s not always related to him being blind 

He's not a newborn in the scenes depicted here. He's around 6 months old. And for sure, there are developmental milestones over the first year of life that are overwhelming even for sighted and hearing children. Gaining awareness of self and the world during the first year of life is nothing less than mind blowing and shocking to a baby. To take away a major sense but still have these wild milestones - yeah, this baby is going to ry more than a typical baby with all senses. Bottom line, it's well within the chracter/scenario for this baby to react crying to things typical. babies might enjoy. 

Also, the Cassidy character is a natural looking, normal woman. Additionally, she's been in a war environment and is suffering ptsd. So, I think it's pretty in character that she's not made up. 

Not everything is commercial ready and that's what I love about this show. It's real

[HollyGoLitely333]

I loved this episode. It touched on the past over several decades, explained a few things, included some present day stuff, and helped make a few characters more likable and understood. 

Does anyone else struggle with Teen/College Randall casting? He's the only character I can't see as older. I think for younger Randall they nailed it. For young Beth - perfection. For the younger and high/middle school Kevin and Kate - totally. 

But that actor for teen Randall...I just can't 'see it no matter how hard I squint. 

[Mars477]

22 minutes ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

He's not a newborn in the scenes depicted here. He's around 6 months old. And for sure, there are developmental milestones over the first year of life that are overwhelming even for sighted and hearing children. Gaining awareness of self and the world during the first year of life is nothing less than mind blowing and shocking to a baby. To take away a major sense but still have these wild milestones - yeah, this baby is going to ry more than a typical baby with all senses. Bottom line, it's well within the chracter/scenario for this baby to react crying to things typical. babies might enjoy. 

Also, the Cassidy character is a natural looking, normal woman. Additionally, she's been in a war environment and is suffering ptsd. So, I think it's pretty in character that she's not made up. 

Not everything is commercial ready and that's what I love about this show. It's real

Yeah, considering that the main thrust of her character is that she is a normal person suddenly and reluctantly caught in the orbit of a Hollywood star, with real person problems like PTSD from over a decade spent fighting in a forever war or weak finances, it’s pretty clear that Makeup is intentionally making Jennifer Morrison look relatively plain compared to the decade plus younger women that Kevin has been dating before.  She’s not a “methhead”, she’s just a woman in her forties ground down by decades of wear and caught in a massive transitional period with minimal preparation and so is extremely (and understandably) stressed.

Also Morrison really showed off her acting chops in this episode.

[CrystalBlue]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:23 PM, Ohmo said:

Hollywood Douchebag money.  I have to give credit to Kevin.  I know Nicky doesn't want a new trailer, but at least Kevin is self-aware enough that he knows he makes a crap ton of cash, and he knows that he has the means to help his family members.  They have the right to refuse it, but Kevin could be a real douchebag and not even offer.  Let's be real.  Money makes life easier, so good for Kevin for being willing to share his wealth, whether his family chooses to take him up on it or not.

I love this about Kevin.  He's never cheaped out on his family and has always been generous.  And when someone's chips are down, he's always ready to help.

[CrystalBlue]

18 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Random stuff, transition isn't my friend, not that I have any friends.

I hated it with a passion.  I suffer from severe migraines, I don't need to hear screaming babies.

I knew this episode was  going to suck when "Sweet Caroline" was brought up.   As a kid I loved the song, I had it on a 45 (that is a vinyl record, not a gun).   As an adult, I hate it with a passion.  Most overrated song, along with Peaches' and Herb's "Reunited" which never felt so good.  At least not from a song point of view.  It really sucked.

Kate should have known the baby couldn't handle all that noise, what a moron.  And then she has to go after Toby about his weight loss, what a bitch.

Rebecca embarrassing Randall by inserting herself into Randall's budding relationship with Beth?   Another asshole move.

She is doing nothing more than playing the same role/acting the same way as she had on "The Cosby Show",  Clair Huxtable.  Nothing to write home about.

I get that Kevin wants to help is uncle, but moving a big ass trailer next to his uncle's trailer seemed like a real dick move.

I don't like seeing people inserting themselves into other people's lives, making those people uncomfortable.    Those are intentional acts.  That was going on this entire episode, and I didn't like it one bit.

I really enjoyed this episode, but I see your points.  Especially if they were in real life, which this show is supposed to be portraying.

[CrystalBlue]

I'm glad TIU is coming together after the jarring season opener.  I see marriage counseling in Kate and Toby's future.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I love this about Kevin.  He's never cheaped out on his family and has always been generous.  And when someone's chips are down, he's always ready to help.

Yes, he a little too enthusiastic but I would be the same way. He just can't see how Nicky feels yet or maybe he could but just "wants to fix things"

I like him so much more this season than the first and enjoy his scenes. I don't feel any chemistry with Cassidy yet but it's "complicated" as they put it, so we will see where that goes.

Re Kate, we have talked about this young man effecting Kate and I hope that's not it, because all these years it was just Jack blamed for her eating even by the actress. Maybe as another post stated, it's more Kevin getting married and maybe needing her or something like that. She never got any counseling it seems over the house burning and her father's death but out of all of them, she might have needed it the most.

[ChattyCathyLA]

Another boring episode.  Four in and I’m still not invested and this was my favorite show.  Disjointed scenes that were too short to really say anything.  WAY too much time spent on the smelly dance space.  I got the point, but they didn’t need to spend so much time on dead opossums to show that Beth’s mom now knows that Randall is “strong”.  OY!  Only watching at this point because there’s nothing else on in the time slot.  Praying it gets better, but not holding up much hope.  My favorite show is now ruined.  Where’s the back and forth flash forward (that I’ve grown to love) for all the new characters they spent the ENTIRE premiere episode introducing?  I wanna see how “feeling” and smelling the beach figures into little blind Jack’s life as a child.  I wanna see the future of Kevin with the war vet and his uncle.  This has turned into just an average show with things unfolding as they do on every other show on TV.  #disappointedAF

Edited October 18, 2019 by ChattyCathyLA

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Was it just me or was that dance that Beth broke into really odd? Super awkward to me. The style maybe......

8 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

I thought it was because the actress who plays Beth may not have any dance experience. I think it would have been better if TPTB just had her going through the ballet positions. 

Susan Kelechi Watson said she studied ballet, modern, tap, jazz, African, Brazilian and Caribbean dance when she was younger

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, kili said:

I think finding out your 14 year old daughter is dating the dad of a 6 month old would give most parents pause.  Even if Malik is the greatest kid in the world, do you want your daughter to take on a parenthood role so young? Live life a little first. And as it turns out, Malik is a dumbass that thinks dealing dope is the way to get his daughter into the best daycares, so Randall and Beth are more right to pause than even they know.

I totally agree with this.  My only problem with Randall and Kate was that they worded it as not wanting Deja to be with "a boy who gets girls pregnant."  Most any teen boy is ready and willing to do the deed that will get a girl pregnant. The parents of teen girls  (instead of screening for boys who don't like sex) should be ready to jump in and get their girl set up with birth control the minute they suspect she's starting to be sexually active. They should be discouraging Deja's relationship with Malik for the reasons you say, not because he got a girl pregnant, but because she is too young to be thinking about becoming a step-parent and all that's involved with that.

I have to put a word in for quiet homes for some babies.  My son was so colicky he barely seemed to sleep at all for the whole first year.  When those few blessed moments of sleep happened, I tiptoed around and made everyone else do it, too.  Baby Jack is always going to be more sensitive to sound than other babies and if they try to keep things quiet for him during his infancy that only seems  kind and right to me.

[Haleth]

Wow.  A whole lot going on in this episode.

About Kevin and his career, I don't believe he dislikes acting as much as he's going through an insecurity phase (or maybe he's always been insecure).  Isn't that the armchair psychologist's conclusion about actors?  That they tend to doubt their own worth and hide behind the false face of a character?  Young Kevin performed to get his parents' attention.  When he hoped the pilot would fail he was afraid he wasn't going to be funny enough.  His switching to charming mode with fans is to make sure they still like him.  Even his alcoholism is a mechanism to blunt the feeling that he is a failure.  The thing is that when he is himself he is a kind, caring, sensitive person that people do like.

I'm warming up to Cassidy.  Laughing at the story of her engagement surprise showed that she has some warmth underneath too.  She and Kevin are good foils for each other in that they don't let the other get away with self pity, but I don't want them to become romantically involved.

The teen versions of the Big 3 are superb.  I definitely like young Kate better than the grown up.

Someone above said Deja was in middle school.  Isn't she in 9th grade?  (Which is usually HS?)

During the scene with the dead possum in the wall I was watching a couple baby possums eating the peanuts I left for them on our deck.  RIP dead possum.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

23 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Someone above said Deja was in middle school.  Isn't she in 9th grade?  (Which is usually HS?)

Malik said he was a junior and Randall told Beth that Malik is two years older than Deja, which should put her in ninth grade. I know it's not always 100% true, but in general middle school is 6th-8th grade while junior high is 7th-9th grade. I don't remember anyone this season specifically saying that Deja is in high school, but she is taking the bus by herself to get to school so I assumed that meant she was going to high school and Tess is still in middle school (if Deja were still in middle school then she would be going to and from school with Tess).

[ams1001]

Last season they wanted to move Deja up a grade (because she was a year behind where she should be, age-wise, and the teacher felt she didn't need to be) but Deja didn't want to because she finally had some stability and didn't want to start a new school. But that was before they moved; maybe since they were all starting new schools anyway they moved her up to where she should be (but it would be nice if they had a line of dialogue that made that clear).

[Dminches]

On 10/16/2019 at 12:47 AM, JKL845 said:

This show does a remarkable job with casting. Young Beth is spot on, with her mannerisms and how much she looks like Beth, The big three at all their stages, really well done. I like all the younger kids, not so much adult Kate and Randall right now but all the rest are so good.

Not only that, but she has a dark spot on her left eye.

[kili]

3 minutes ago, Dminches said:

Not only that, but she has a dark spot on her left eye.

I was impressed by that the first time we saw young Beth, but it turns out that Rachel Wilson does not have a dark spot in her eye. She wears a special contact lens to simulate that. Now I'm even more impressed by their attention to detail. 

[chitowngirl]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This subplot desperately needs more timothy Omundson ASAP.

More Timothy Omundson is always a good thing!

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I totally agree with this.  My only problem with Randall and Kate was that they worded it as not wanting Deja to be with "a boy who gets girls pregnant."  Most any teen boy is ready and willing to do the deed that will get a girl pregnant. The parents of teen girls  (instead of screening for boys who don't like sex) should be ready to jump in and get their girl set up with birth control the minute they suspect she's starting to be sexually active. They should be discouraging Deja's relationship with Malik for the reasons you say, not because he got a girl pregnant, but because she is too young to be thinking about becoming a step-parent and all that's involved with that.

I have to put a word in for quiet homes for some babies.  My son was so colicky he barely seemed to sleep at all for the whole first year.  When those few blessed moments of sleep happened, I tiptoed around and made everyone else do it, too.  Baby Jack is always going to be more sensitive to sound than other babies and if they try to keep things quiet for him during his infancy that only seems  kind and right to me.

I'm with you on both points.  Teenage parenthood is not ideal for anyone, and preventing it is just good for everyone.  As to babies and noise/sleeping, my son was much like yours, and when sleep is at a premium, you protect it.  My daughter was the queen of sleep and nothing stopped her.  Noise can be a real stressor for some but not for all.  It's not a one-size-fits-all world. 

[ErinV]

I have done a 180 on Toby since he first appeared.  My previous opinion was that he was incredibly controlling and smothering.  I was appalled at his Super Bowl stunt and couldn't believe Kate put up with it.
However, now he's walking on eggshells around an unhinged Kate.  I don't hate him like I used to; just feel bad for him now!

[Scout Finch]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:57 AM, icemiser69 said:

I hated it with a passion.  I suffer from severe migraines, I don't need to hear screaming babies.

I was just telling a friend at a restaurant on Saturday where there was a baby two tables away that that's one of my least favorite sounds, and that the happy ear-piercing squeals also bother my sensitive hearing. I read something about how when women hear a baby cry even when it's not their own they automatically want to comfort it. Yeah, no, I just want to get the heck away as fast as I can. Baby animals, yay! Baby humans, not so much. Having said that, even I would get pissed off from the vapid over-stimulation of the music class! I really doubt even getting there early would have made any difference once the cacophony started.

[Lady Iris]

17 hours ago, kili said:

Kevin saved that pilot be deciding to calm the child. That showed his true charm. Kevin used to be a little annoyed when people mentioned "The Mannie", but now he fully embraces it. He's so much happier and comfortable in his skin than he once was. Kevin is used to living in one of those trailers - they use ones just like that for filming. He is a total Labrador to Nicky's old cat who just want to be left alone.

Bahahahaha! I love this spot on description!

I know Nicky's not gonna make any major changes but I do hope he'll eventually come to appreciate Kevin and what he's trying to do for him. I'm enjoying the misfit fun bunch adventures between Kevin, Nicky and Cassidy.

[esco1822]

19 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Why should Beth and Randall freak out anyway?  If Malik's girlfriend either had an abortion or put the baby up for adoption, they would not have known because the baby wouldn't have been there.  But he still would have gotten a girl pregnant regardless.

They were already weary of Deja dating a boy 2 years older but now they are dealing with an older boy who is clearly sexually active and potentially not in a safe way. I think it's just a matter of having to deal with the topic of sex with her much sooner than they were prepared to do. I don't have kids but if I did, I would definitely consider it a red flag. Great, he seems responsible and enthusiastic but Deja has had so much upheaval in her life, i'm sure they just want her to ease into things slowly. Especially a relationship with a 16 year old dad and ALL of the implications that come along with it. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by esco1822
Safe Sex!

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

Susan Kelechi Watson said she studied ballet, modern, tap, jazz, African, Brazilian and Caribbean dance when she was younger

It did seem more African, Brazilian, and Caribbean in nature - which was odd because in the future didn't she appear to be a ballet mistress of a ballet school? 

[S.Batts]

Loved the episode but still disappointed in the disconnect with Randall's family and the rest of the Pearson's.   Showing the end of a call, or reading a text from a family member would have been nice.  A text from Rebecca congratulating Beth on her opening day would have worked.  It's like we are watching two separate families now.  

Not a fan of Cassidy either, I hope if she is intended for Kevin that she grows on me more.  

Not like the Deja and Malik story line at all.  Why give him a baby in grade 11?   Maybe this will have some significance later on as the story line moves along.   

I think Kate and Toby are doomed for divorce.   Kate has a lovely voice, so why she needed to bring baby Jack to that music class, I have no clue.  Sing to your baby Kate!!!

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, ErinV said:

I have done a 180 on Toby since he first appeared.  My previous opinion was that he was incredibly controlling and smothering.  I was appalled at his Super Bowl stunt and couldn't believe Kate put up with it.
However, now he's walking on eggshells around an unhinged Kate.  I don't hate him like I used to; just feel bad for him now!

Toby really seemed controlling (and annoying as hell) in the beginning of the relationship. But over the years the writers have turned him into a very decent guy who's just kind of cheesy, and happens to struggle with depression.

Which raises the question - what the hell does he see in Kate? What redeeming characteristics does she have? She's a good sister to Kevin, I suppose. And she loves their baby. But neither of those are good enough reasons for staying with someone who's relentlessly negative, self-pitying, and self-centered, and resents you for losing weight after a heart attack.

[bybrandy]

40 minutes ago, S.Batts said:

 Kate has a lovely voice, so why she needed to bring baby Jack to that music class, I have no clue.  Sing to your baby Kate!!!

Because she wants to introduce Jack to things she can't give him.  Her voice isn't the only music.  She wants him to get to go out in the world and experience the same things all the other babies are experiencing.   She might not go about this the right way but moms can do all the things from mommy and me at home, too.  It is about getting your baby (and yourself) out in the world and interacting with the world.   

Kate panicked and built it up too much in her mind, but wanting her baby to have different experiences and being anxious to find the ones that his blindness won't limit him feels like a natural response.   
 

[saber5055]

16 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Was it just me or was that dance that Beth broke into really odd? Super awkward to me. The style maybe......

That dancing scene was so completely awkward, it was a hootchie dance like the Vaudeville women did back in the 30s movies to entice the men in the audience. Totally inappropriate for getting students to sign up for a dance class, totally appropriate for getting dads to come after work for a few "private lessons." Why not take a child or even a dad from the guests and teach them some ballroom or ballet moves instead of hootching all over the place, flipping your skirt up and showing your boobs.

Maybe it was just me, but it bothered me.

Other than that, I pretty much liked this episode which is astounding since I've been hate watching for a while, mostly hating Kate and Toby, and Baby Jack has only made them worse. Maybe that there was less of them made this episode better. Well, Kate was still horrid while Toby was better. Maybe Kate needs a heart attack and actually die so Toby takes over raising Baby Jack, which is why BJ turns into a good adult. Yeah, I vote for that.

WTH with Kate being late for the music class. If monkey is SO IMPORTANT that Baby Jack can't survive without it, why wasn't it with Baby Jack when they were leaving for the class. It should be with Baby Jack 24/7 if it's such a big deal. Just another reason to hate adult Kate, as if I needed more reasons. Funny there were empty seats side-by-side for them when they got there though, and was Toby the only dad there? Cool he was wearing shorts.

I didn't have a problem with taking the baby to a music class. As another poster wrote, the more noise a baby is subjected to, the more socialized they are and more able to cope with situations as they get older. Keep a child sequestered and in silence, that kid'll have problems later in the real world.

Teen Kate is so very pretty, amazingly so. I have no problem with mom calling her Bug. It's a term of endearment. When mom is mad, she'll call Kate by all three of her legal names. Kids know the difference.

So strange that the AA website hasn't been updated for decades, yet those three were the only ones coming to the meeting at the wrong time. Weren't they at the meeting last week? Or do those three just randomly show up at different meetings in different towns whenever. But I guess the show had to throw Whatshername in with Kevin for the afternoon and have Nicky tell his Sally story somehow.

So who is going to play 70-year-old Sally? I guess wait a couple weeks and we'll find out.

It's about time someone recognized The Manny. Kevin has been walking around wherever for three seasons and no one knew who he was until this week. Amazing.

All this fascination with flashbacks and new Baby Jack, yet we haven't seen Randall and Beth's two daughters being born or tiny kids. What's up with that? Maybe waiting until next season?

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

All this fascination with flashbacks and new Baby Jack, yet we haven't seen Randall and Beth's two daughters being born or tiny kids. What's up with that? Maybe waiting until next season?

We saw Tess’ birth in Season 1. Afterwards that’s when Rebecca reconnected with Miguel. 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

So strange that the AA website hasn't been updated for decades, yet those three were the only ones coming to the meeting at the wrong time. Weren't they at the meeting last week? Or do those three just randomly show up at different meetings in different towns whenever. But I guess the show had to throw Whatshername in with Kevin for the afternoon and have Nicky tell his Sally story somehow.

I got the impression from the woman at the church that this was a common occurrence with the AA meeting time.  It just happened to be those three that day.  It also looked like both Kevin and Cassidy needed an emergency meeting and consulted the out-of-date website.  They both wanted to fall off the wagon and were looking for a lifeline at that moment.  Which is why Kevin was not letting Cassidy out of his sight.  

[Cementhead]

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Was it just me or was that dance that Beth broke into really odd? Super awkward to me. The style maybe......

Yes.  One of my pet peeves is when people suddenly break into song in a tv show or movie.  After this episode, this pet peeve will also include random dancing. 

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, esco1822 said:

They were already weary of Deja dating a boy 2 years older but now they are dealing with an older boy who is clearly sexually active and potentially not in a safe way. I think it's just a matter of having to deal with the topic of sex with her much sooner than they were prepared to do. I don't have kids but if I did, I would definitely consider it a red flag. Great, he seems responsible and enthusiastic but Deja has had so much upheaval in her life, i'm sure they just want her to ease into things slowly. Especially a relationship with a 16 year old dad and ALL of the implications that come along with it. 

I said last episode that I wouldn't want my 14-year-old dating a boy with a baby because it makes things much more grown-up. And Deja in particular has had to basically raise herself AND parent her mother, so she's already had to deal with too much too soon. I wouldn't be comfortable with this either.

Deja's looks when Randall met Malik were hilarious and so 14-year-old girl. I paused it at one point when I left the room and I came back and noticed that I'd frozen her face in a perfect side-eye. And the timing of "Good news, it's just one dead possum, not a family!" was perfect.

I do think Kate and Toby end up divorced. (Also, I once left my keys in the refrigerator, so when he said "It happens!" I was like "Sure does!") I agree with whoever said Kate acts like Toby is losing weight AT him.

On 10/16/2019 at 12:17 AM, bybrandy said:

She's a recovering alcoholic with PTSD.  She's got other things going on than pretending to look happy to please other people.  I haven't warmed up to the character and never liked the characer she played on House.  So I doubt I will.  However, it isn't because she looks miserable.  Her character's whole world is falling apart.  She is miserable.  

In 2015, I was laid off, my last grandparent died, and I went through a breakup. All these things happened in the last six months of the year. I was a mess. My mother told me I looked miserable (as a reprimand) and I replied "I AM miserable." Because I was. I wore makeup sometimes; it just made me look made-up ... and I was still miserable.

I'm with you, @bybrandy - I don't like Cassidy but I can acknowledge that her life sucks. 

[kili]

Quote

It's about time someone recognized The Manny. Kevin has been walking around wherever for three seasons and no one knew who he was until this week. Amazing.

Kevin has constantly been recognized as "The Manny" throughout the seasons.  It has been one of the persistent background things that occurs In the first year, it bugged him and he kind of grimaced through the smiles (even when getting sent free appetizers when dining with Randall). When he was fixing up Randall's apartment building, the neighbours came over to watch "The Manny" work.

Quote

Yes.  One of my pet peeves is when people suddenly break into song in a tv show or movie.  After this episode, this pet peeve will also include random dancing

This is one of the rare cases where it isn't random. She's introducing a dance studio so some dancing would be expected. Her intent was to do some dancing and then teach the audience some moves to get them interested in joining.  Realistically, she'll probably need to offer a variety of classes when starting out a new studio to maximize potential clients.

I think that her dance seemed a little unpolished because it had to be a little ad hoc. She had planned for the event to occur inside on a proper dance floor and that she would have time to prepare (maybe put on a ballet outfit). But, with the dead animal problems, she had to spend time with the exterminator and then suddenly move all the stuff they had already set up outside (they were setting up as cars were arriving).  Pavement isn't the best medium to be doing ballet on and she may have had to wing it a little by doing a different style given her outfit, her shoes and the parking lot.

[ShadowFacts]

29 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

That dancing scene was so completely awkward, it was a hootchie dance like the Vaudeville women did back in the 30s movies to entice the men in the audience.

That made me laugh so hard, thanks.

30 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

So strange that the AA website hasn't been updated for decades, yet those three were the only ones coming to the meeting at the wrong time. Weren't they at the meeting last week? Or do those three just randomly show up at different meetings in different towns whenever. But I guess the show had to throw Whatshername in with Kevin for the afternoon and have Nicky tell his Sally story somehow.

Those three had been kicked out of their previous meeting for unstoppable laughing, so they hadn't been to this one before. 

[Empress1]

14 minutes ago, kili said:

Kevin has constantly been recognized as "The Manny" throughout the seasons.  It has been one of the persistent background things that occurs In the first year, it bugged him and he kind of grimaced through the smiles (even when getting sent free appetizers when dining with Randall). When he was fixing up Randall's apartment building, the neighbours came over to watch "The Manny" work.

And the Korean residents of one of the neighborhoods in Randall's district kept staring at him and Randall when Randall was campaigning, and Kevin revealed that The Manny was huge in Korea. It has always seemed to me that Kevin has "never has to work again" money given the show's success and syndication - he's probably still being paid from The Manny.

... Justin Hartley really has a great body.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Empress1