S21.E36: Head of Household #13; Nominations #13

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

Head of Household and Nominations

[Callaphera]

I would have been fine with them airing that entire Rockstar's Daughter's Birthday (Eve) fight rather than five more minutes of Jackson and Cliff being condescending assholes. 

[kellog010]

Jackson is an asshole. I don't buy his fake tears, he's so condescending. I hate the TV edits he gets. Cliff is also an idiot for thinking he could force deals so late in the game that only benefit him. 

[Eolivet]

Can somebody explain to me like I'm stupid why Holly throwing HoH was so integral to ... tricking Cliff and Nicole into believing Holly was still honoring the deal made to keep her for final 4 when there were ::checks notes:: four people left?

[HighMaintenance]

Best outcome is if Nicole can get Holly to agree to dump the 2 guys and let the chips fall where they may.  Both men are condescending jackasses who think they can manipulate the women folk.

[Growsonwalls]

Ok that was one of the best episodes in the BB franchise. A couple of thoughts:

1) the supervillain of the episode was of course Jackson but dammit if that wasn't some quick thinking on his part. This along with Dan's funeral, Danielle convincing Marcellas not to use the veto and Will convincing Janelle to evict Chicken George shows that on BB, sometimes you just have to go for the kill when the clock is ticking.

2) But the person I hated the most this episode was Cliff. He said he'd honor Nicole's wishes this week, but it was clear from the DR's that he was always going to evict Tommy. And of course he wasted no time securing a deal for himself that was incredibly naive on his part but also totally backstabbed Nicole. The way he wrapped up his betrayal of Nicole in this "I'm just looking out for the both of us" was icky.

3) Oh Holly. I have no doubt that in real life you're probably a nice person. But on the show you have become another Erika Landin. You are pathetic. You didn't even see the fact that it helped JACKSON for you to throw HoH because that meant two people vs. 1 in the final eviction of the week. Also: if she didn;t want to throw the HoH she could have stayed up there for as long as possible. No one can force you to throw a competition.

4) I felt bad for Nicole. She had the right instincts, but she it was clear Cliff was always going to drop the idea of evicting Tommy, so she never had a chance last week. She needed better allies this whole game. But you could tell that she saw her own game disappearing before her eyes when it was clear Tommy was going.

5) Tommy? Eh. When Jackson was strongarming Nicole he just sat and did nothing. This is how games are lost.

6) It's hard to believe Jackson is the youngest person in the house, because the way he manipulated everyone in that episode was the way a hardened con-man does business. I can believe he has a criminal record history. His very street mix of lying, bullying, charm, and fake remorse is ... well, it certainly makes him one of the more compelling characters in modern Big Brother. 

[PaperTree]

That was hard to watch.

Cliff is dumber than I thought buying Blockhead's bullshit.

Nicole is right, but lets him.  I wish she had stood her ground.  Told Cliff she was voting Holly out and he could do whatever he wanted.

Blockhead is moving to the top tier of my list of despised BB players.

Holly can put a sock in it.  Throwing the HoH was part of the "deal" that kept her in the house.

Nothing forced her to keep it.  At that point it didn't really matter much.  It was all going to come out anyway.

Then Cliff comes back for another steaming helping of Bullshit.  Watermelon Man would never take you (or Nicole) to F2, dumbass. 

Spare us the phony waterworks, douchebag.

[Cutty]

I'm glad my read all season that Cliff sucks is finally paying off. What an absolute buffoon. 

[PaperTree]

2 minutes ago, Cutty said:

I'm glad my read all season that Cliff sucks is finally paying off. What an absolute buffoon. 

I believe there is a whole cottage industry of Texas Aggie jokes out there, but I'm too lazy to look.

[Melina22]

I was extremely impressed with Nicole tonight, despite her possible error in agreeing to keep Holly. (It's not like keeping Tommy meant a guaranteed win for her, but we'll never know). For someone who loves unicorns and rainbows, she has a surprisingly accurate and unsentimental read on people, and a very logical mind. 

Something I especially noticed was her demeanor during the big fight. Amid all the shouting and crying, Holly and Cliff were shifting around, agitated. Nicole was calm and motionless, completely unfazed, and never lost her ability to ask pointed questions and listen carefully to the response. She must be a great preschool aide! (Not being sarcastic.)

19 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Both men are condescending jackasses who think they can manipulate the women folk.

Actually, Jackson doesn't think he can, he's totally doing it. Cliff also achieved manipulating Nicole to vote out Tommy, but I'm pretty sure she regrets it. And now, after hearing him vow to take Jackson to F3, I don't expect Nicole to go along with him again.

I don't consider Cliff a condescending jackass. I feel he's just fighting to be included in the F3. But I believe he's going to have a lot of regret about having to do this to Nicole, after the game is over. I don't picture her carrying a grudge though.

Oh, and Jackson and Holly came off really badly, constantly repeating that Cliff and Nicole deserved every horrible thing they were planning to do to them because they were evil betrayers and everything was ALL THEIR FAULT. Yikes. Being self-righteous BlamieMcBlamersons is not an attractive look on them, especially when Cliff and Nicole have been honest and up front about everything they've done and why. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Melina22

[kellog010]

I really wish Nicole would have stood her ground against Cliff. 

[Wandering Snark]

54 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

the person I hated the most this episode was Cliff.

Agreed, we already saw him throw her under the bus but this time he's the one driving the bus while Jackson stands on the corner and laughs as Cliff runs her over, backs over her then runs her over again just to make sure.

54 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Holly can put a sock in it.  Throwing the HoH was part of the "deal" that kept her in the house.

Ya know what Holly? You were GONE if you didn't make this horrible terrible I'll throw the most pointless HoH of the year deal with Nicole and Cliff. Think of it that way instead of being pissed you had to throw it. Gah...

I reallly hated cliff coming out of this one, with him smiling all condescending "oh btw I made a final two with Jackson without telling you. Oh, well, I mean I'm telling you now though that we're keeping him..." Thanks a lot big guy!! AND he was the one making sure Tommy went home too because it was better for him. Ass.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Wandering Snark
I don't type well when pissed ;-)

[Lamb18]

I was kind of hoping Nicole would put Jackson and Cliff on the block. 

[North of Eden]

The editors seemed to be working overtime to telegraph that Jackson is really a closet psycho with those thousand mile stares.

Your average car windshield was less transparant than Jackson trying to excuse his guilt because he was trying to save/shield Holly. He's the one who should own it. 

The way he framed Tommy...can you imagine if he was ever in law enforcement and wanted to ensure someone's conviction even if they were innocent. It should give everyone watching chills.

I don't even like Tommy but I did feel sorry for him (not during the meeting) but during  that brief shot as he is sitting less than 30 minutes from eviction stoicly awaiting his fate and Cliff and Nicole walk by him coldly not even acknowledging him.

And Cliff...I've despised  him from way back when he wouldn't sack up and get out a showmance and took the easy route and evicted Bella.

Something tells me in the end after all is said and done Jackson is going to wind up like Paul...a bridesmaid...coming in second.

Edited September 16, 2019 by North of Eden

[Melina22]

Oh, I just remembered! How funny /sad was it when Jackson was crying with Holly hugging and patting him sympathetically, then he suddenly says, "I wish my Momma was here to hug me!" 

Wow. How to make your girlfriend feel like chopped liver. Take a hint, Holly!! (Spoiler: she won't.) 

[Never Again]

40 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Holly can put a sock in it.  Throwing the HoH was part of the "deal" that kept her in the house.

26 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

41 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Ya know what Holly? You were GONE if you didn't make this horrible terrible I'll throw the most pointless HoH the year deal with Nicole and Cliff. Think of it that way instead of being pissed you had to throw it. Gah...

This is what had me yelling at my TV,  I was so annoyed!  Holly had a choice of being evicted or making the deal.  She made the deal.  She keeps on bitching about how she was forced into throwing it, how horrible she feels, how she should be the rightful HOH, on and on, but if she hadn’t signed up for the deal she would be gone and never even in the HoH contest.  Oh, and I firmly believe she threw it eventually not because she promised Nicole and Cliff but because Jackson kept insisting on it, and she only cares about making him happy.  Holly you idiot, your man cost you that HOH.  I’m disgusted with Cliff too and at this point , personal feelings aside, I want Jackson or Nicole to win.  Holly would be the worst winner, followed by Cliff, who at least tried, even though he messed up his ally.

2 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Oh, I just remembered! How funny /sad was it when Jackson was crying with Holly hugging and patting him sympathetically, then he suddenly says, "I wish my Momma was here to hug me!" 

Wow. How to make your girlfriend feel like chopped liver. Take a hint, Holly!! (Spoiler: she won't.) 

Frankly that was awesome, she’s trying so hard to comfort him, he doesn’t even acknowledge she’s alive, he only wants his momma.  Holly good luck in life, because you are one woman who cannot read a room or a relationship.  

Then again, Jackson is a complete sociopath and they do fool you 

[slasherboy]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

well, it certainly makes him one of the more compelling characters in modern Big Brother. 

As opposed to Ancient Big Brother of olden times?  Of course, those who watched the first few seasons know how primitive and crude the game was.  They had to wash their clothes in a bucket and have competitions for their food.  I remember those days of yore fondly.

Also, I'm just playing with you .... you had a really insightful post.

[springbarb]

I admit that I didn't mind Jackson for a lot of the season--at least, not since Jack left. His gameplay has been on point, and he's done a good job with the social side. He's quick to figure things out and plan.

But. The sanctimony tonight was off the charts. If his DRs had just been about doing what he needs to do, that would've been fine. But him going on about the betrayal by Cliff and Nicole...totally lost me.

And watching Cliff talk Nicole into voting out Tommy was just gross. I feel like he was playing up the father-figure role there and taking advantage of it--the "I know best." I wish she had been like, "Going into a Final Four with a couple, or with two individuals?" Also, that someone had pointed out to Jackson during the house meeting that he at one point said that Tommy was targeting Jackson, but also that Tommy was targeting Cliff and Nicole. Jackson's lies made no sense. Nicole picked up on it. Cliff didn't.

[coconutcookie]

I didn't see the whole episode because I recorded it and it started 20 minutes late, so the last thing I saw was Michie saying he needed to have Holly throw the HOH competition.  Was that just so she would remain virtuous? And honor her promise?  At this point everyone is lying.  Nicole and Cliff lied to her and Michie.  If Holly had won HOH she could put both Nicole and Cliff up.  How does it help Michie's game for him and Holly to go up.  I guess he's planning on winning the POV and backdooring Cliff.  But I suppose if Holly is HOH and Nicole and Cliff are on the block and one of them wins POV, then he would be backdoored.  I have no idea what the jury will do.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

So it was cliff who messed this up. Good to know when it comes to the AFP vote. I just don’t understand how he thinks he can believe anything Jackson says. I really hope Nicole can win the final HOH comp, unless holly realises her best shot at winning is against Nicole and she takes Jackson out

[BK1978]

You know I was thinking the other day, why is it we only see fights like these on Big Brother?

I do not recall any big back-and-forth arguments like this ever happening on Survivor (granted my memory is not that great).  I wonder if it is because BB is such a small environment and therefore you cannot really escape the people that you are arguing with.  While on Survivor you can just walk off to the jungle to get some distance.

I found it funny when Jackson said he was originally going to stick with Cliff and Nicole, until they started second guessing the vote to keep Holly.  Yeah Jackson I am sure you were doing that...

He was just looking for a reason to be offended and they served him up that reason.

[willco]

Wow. I didn't care for Tommy, but jeez I don't think he deserved that ! Someone earlier in the season said something like they could see Jackson as a serial killer, and that really showed thru tonight. The coldness of his determination to cast Tommy as a liar was chilling. And then, to top it off, saying "Where's Momma when you need her ??". Dude--  the name Norman Bates ring a bell ?? 

It's getting next to impossible to root for Holly, with her starry-eyed devotion to Michie. The guy already has you doing things you don't want to do ( and know you shouldn't). RUN !!

At this point, I'm hoping Nicole can somehow pull out the win. That would redeem this season a lot for me.

[DrBriCa]

50 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

You know I was thinking the other day, why is it we only see fights like these on Big Brother?

I do not recall any big back-and-forth arguments like this ever happening on Survivor (granted my memory is not that great).  I wonder if it is because BB is such a small environment and therefore you cannot really escape the people that you are arguing with.  While on Survivor you can just walk off to the jungle to get some distance.

There have been blow-ups from time-to-time on Survivor and Amazing Race, but certainly few if any that take up a full segment between commercials. Survivor's format seems especially difficult to air a drawn out fight, given the amount of time they already allot per episode to competitions and tribal council.

Space is definitely a main factor. Even watching Jackson & Tommy's blow-up, I was thinking how awkward it would be to have so few places to escape the tension right then, especially since the backyard already looked off-limits for HOH comp set-up. 

Another factor that I think impacts other shows is fatigue.  I imagine it'd be harder to sustain a huge shouting match when physically starving like on Survivor or completely exhausted after hours of flying and doing competitions like on TAR.  In fact, one recent minor fight that did happen on the most recent season of TAR (between two Big Brother winners: Rachel & Nichole), happened while on a train, which is a calmer mode of travel and in a confined space.

[Orillia]

I loved listening to Nicole's analysis of Jackson during the fight. Some good observations. I thought that her pointing out that both Jackson and Brent used the "own it" phrase was right on the money. I really hope she wins.

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Holly has blinders on.  Once this season is over, I think she is going to get dropped by Jackson like a hot potato.  

Agreed. 

[mertensia]

Nicole is going to be the one asked back in future seasons. Also, I really hope Bella is screaming and frothing at the mouth about Nicole making Final 3. I hope it gives Bella ulcers.

Cliff came off so, so badly.

So did Jackson, who comes off exactly like a wife beater in a Lifetime movie explaining why you deserve the beating you're going to get in a calm tone of voice.

Tommy really got railroaded in that fight.

Edited September 16, 2019 by mertensia

[iMonrey]

This is the episode that will make both Cliff and Nicole feel stupid when they get around to seeing it. Cliff was duped by Jackson and Nicole was duped by Cliff.

I thought Tommy came off way better in that fight than I expected him to. He remained pretty calm in the face of Jackson's accusations and only blew up because Holly was sitting there letting him get away with his lies. I think he was really just madder at her because she claims to be playing her own game.

It would be interesting to see what parts of this they didn't show us because the episode bent over backwards trying to play up a sympathetic side to Jackson. They know the odds are that he's going to win and they have been doing everything they can to manage his edit as favorably as possible. 

Quote

Jackson pivots from victim to asshat in seconds. 

Exactly.

[Samwise979]

When Jackson was "comforting" Nicole in the bathroom and just staring off into space with no expression on his face... Omg he really has no feelings. 

Something else I noticed about him, he keeps saying he is loyal to a fault but he's only loyal until he thinks/feels like the other person has done something to betray him. Then he turns on them and holds the grudge for the rest of his life. Look at when the 6 initially broke up, he refused to get back with them, refused to accept Jack's apology and now with Cliff and Nicole, they are dead to him. 

[QQQQ]

Signs of a Sociopath

Jackson really ticks most of the sociopath boxes, and I don't think it is just BB gamesmanship. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by QQQQ

[Nashville]

Yaknow, I actually used to like Holly as a player - but now...?

I think this little bit o’ something I scavenged from Reddit sums up most eloquently my current feelings RE Holly:

[ShaNaeNae]

Jackson, shut up about the fucking confetti.

How I'd love for him to get a shoulder full of confetti, but then they announce there's not an actual $500K prize.  "You just seemed to really want the confetti, so we figured we'd do some cutbacks this year..."

[tinkerbell]

23 minutes ago, ShaNaeNae said:

Jackson, shut up about the fucking confetti.

How I'd love for him to get a shoulder full of confetti, but then they announce there's not an actual $500K prize.  "You just seemed to really want the confetti, so we figured we'd do some cutbacks this year..."

Maybe they could make the confetti out of the cash prize. 

[MMLEsq]

I was rooting for Tommy all season (not a popular opinion here, I'll admit).  Honestly, I don't want ANY of the four left to win.  But, since one must, I guess my order of preference would be:

1.  Nicole -- not that she deserves to win, but she's shown some flashes of insight and had to put up with a lot of crap along the way from Bella...

2.  Holly -- totally does not deserve to win, but there would be some satisfaction in seeing her win and then hopefully turning around and dumping Jackson...

3.  Jackson -- out of the four, he most deserves to win, but he's just so unlikable that I really don't want him to...

4.  Cliff -- ugh; in the beginning I was kind of rooting for him, being the "old guy" and all, but not anymore...

I'm having flashbacks to the final three of Andy, GinaMarie and Spencer of BB15, when there wasn't anyone to root for in the final three.

[jumper sage]

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Can somebody explain to me like I'm stupid why Holly throwing HoH was so integral to ... tricking Cliff and Nicole into believing Holly was still honoring the deal made to keep her for final 4 when there were ::checks notes:: four people left?

Not me.  I still don't get why Nicole even brought up the whole keeping Tommy thing if she wasn't going to go through with it.  Made her look weak.  The job needed a silent assassin.

16 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Agreed, we already saw him throw her under the bus but this time he's the one driving the bus while Jackson stands on the corner and laughs as Cliff runs her over, backs over her then runs her over again just to make sure.

Pretty damn vivid picture.  Completely right though.

[Melina22]

4 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

Something else I noticed about him, he keeps saying he is loyal to a fault but he's only loyal until he thinks/feels like the other person has done something to betray him. Then he turns on them and holds the grudge for the rest of his life. Look at when the 6 initially broke up, he refused to get back with them, refused to accept Jack's apology and now with Cliff and Nicole, they are dead to him. 

Ugh. I've known people like this. They tend to go through friends really fast because eventually everyone "betrays them", (i.e. makes some minor error) and are thus dead to them. They also tend to end up all alone, moaning about how disloyal everyone is, and never, ever thinking it might be them. 

[Nashville]

9 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Ugh. I've known people like this. They tend to go through friends really fast because eventually everyone "betrays them", (i.e. makes some minor error) and are thus dead to them. They also tend to end up all alone, moaning about how disloyal everyone is, and never, ever thinking it might be them. 

You left out the part about how when anybody questions them or presents any kind of alternative view on a position, then that person is being “disloyal” or “faithless”; when they do the exact same thing, however, it’s “evaluating all options” or “thinking strategically“ - something apparently no other person on the planet is entitled to do.  🙄

[HurricaneVal]

I suspect those bits of that "house meeting" that were broadcast last night were very carefully edited.  I have a feeling it got uglier than they showed, but production needed to delicately craft a narrative that didn't make Jackson out to be the total psychotic asshole he appears to be.  I was thoroughly creeped out by that wild careening between the rage demon, the cold-eyed thousand yard stare, and the man-child crying out for his mommy.

Run Holly.  When that door opens, run fast and run far.  Did you see the defeated look on her face when she was comforting Jackson as he cried for mommy?  That was the look of a woman trapped in an emotionally abusive relationship.

[Melina22]

22 minutes ago, Nashville said:

You left out the part about how when anybody questions them or presents any kind of alternative view on a position, then that person is being “disloyal” or “faithless”; when they do the exact same thing, however, it’s “evaluating all options” or “thinking strategically“ - something apparently no other person on the planet is entitled to do.  🙄

You nailed it. Yuck. I'm getting flashbacks. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I have a feeling it got uglier than they showed, but production needed to delicately craft a narrative that didn't make Jackson out to be the total psychotic asshole he appears to be.  I was thoroughly creeped out by that wild careening between the rage demon, the cold-eyed thousand yard stare, and the man-child crying out for his mommy.

The thing that gets me is that Nicole clearly saw through it, and it should have been enough to give Cliff pause about sticking with Jackson, and yet in the end they still decided this is the guy they wanted to go with. I didn't even think Jackson did that good of a job, he kept repeating the same thing over and over again and it shouldn't have even mattered because at that point they were down to the final five anyway. If he's that worked up about them keeping Tommy over Holly it should have made them want to keep Tommy even more, not less.

What I'm getting at is that Nicole and Cliff are idiots.

[llongori]

18 hours ago, PaperTree said:

I believe there is a whole cottage industry of Texas Aggie jokes out there, but I'm too lazy to look.

27 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Most of those jokes were probably made by Texas Longhorn fans.

It doesn't help that through out the years, Aggies football teams more often than not act like choking dogs.   They find more ways to lose football games.

I still don't understand how so many Aggies end up on Big Brother.

Actually, Aggies are pretty proud of those jokes.  Back in the day when I attended A&M, you could buy volumes of Aggie joke books at the bookstore in the student center (and all over town).  My personal favorite (because of my years teaching science)...  Did you hear about the Aggie who thought diarrhea was hereditary because it runs in your jeans?

You can buy books of Aggie jokes online or just google Aggie jokes and you'll find enough to keep you reading for hours.

[Dewey Decimate]

You know how you can hollow out an egg by poking holes in each end and blowing out the contents? I want to do that with a watermelon, refill it with human shit, and send it to Jackson.

[Spicymustard]

I’ve always liked cliff so this was a bit painful to watch. 

[kz5]

14 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Not me.  I still don't get why Nicole even brought up the whole keeping Tommy thing if she wasn't going to go through with it.  Made her look weak.  The job needed a silent assassin.

But that is what Nicole did every week. That's why they called her wishy washy.  She would go back and forth, and then did what Cliff wanted her to do. 

[GeorgiaRai]

I think Cliff was remaining true to Jackson no matter what.  If they'd split the vote & let Jackson break the tie, Nicole would've immediately become the target of everyone left in the house (because Cliff would've been washing his hands of her faster than he could say "before the wife").  Maybe keeping Holly only gets Nicole as far as F3, but at least it got her that... & an HOH.

Given the two crappy options available to her, I don't think she was stupid to vote the way she did.

[laurakaye]

During Jackson's DR when he was Snackson-'splaining how everything that happened was Nicole and Cliff's faults, he stared straight into the camera and said, "but thanks for keeping Holly."  I am not joking, I felt a chill down my spine.  Even my husband, who only catches bits and pieces of the show, quietly said "whoa."    

[HurricaneVal]

55 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

he stared straight into the camera and said, "but thanks for keeping Holly."  I am not joking, I felt a chill down my spine.

Me too.  That was seriously creepy.  Like, "it puts the lotion in the basket" creepy....

[jumper sage]

2 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

Given the two crappy options available to her, I don't think she was stupid to vote the way she did.

I get it.  I think she should have voted how she wanted to but shut up about any thoughts running through her head.

[Hanahope]

As if Jackson would ever have taken Cliff or Nicole to F3, let alone F2.  Idiots.