S09.E14: The Forever Decision

[Lindz]

7 minutes ago, Auntie said:

A whole 1.5 points. Stellar!

Yeah.....he's a 1.5 out of a TRILLION!! 😂😂

[Hangin Out]

6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Yes, I'd like to know what Iris had in mind when she said that about Keith's needing improvement! He doesn't respond to "Heel" and "Beg"?

IMO, Keith was the classiest guy I ever saw on this show.  I can’t think of one thing he did wrong.  Iris, on the other hand, is still very immature in more ways than one.  She sort of reminds me of another era the way she thinks, like a child sometimes.  Why didn’t the experts catch that?  She may look sophisticated  and up to date, but her rapid speaking and some things she says are babyish.  For instance .. she was embarrassed when they played the game that suggested she do some things with Keith, but admitted to oral sex on t.v.  That right there struck me as very weird.  What Virgin would admit to that?  Only an immature child.

[DrewPaul2010]

Matt and Amber

From what I've heard they (producers, experts whoever) go through thousands of applications to screen out the vast majority of them. How did this guy (Matt) not get caught in the net? How did he swim through? There are some people you meet in life who have very awkward body language but also a strange affectation and see reality differently than most people do. Like mostly everyone in this forum I pegged him for being bizarre, cranky, curious, eccentric, erratic, freakish. There wasn't a genuine or sincere bone in his body. I'd love to know who argued and pleaded for this misfit to have a chance? 

I thought initially Amber was willing to stay married...I thought Matt might agree to stay married just so he could split later and try to salvage something.

Iris and Keith

I was surprised, felt it could have gone either way. Keith is a private man who I believe kept his real feelings to himself. Then again its not surprising. There relationship had become a threesome, Iris, Keith and Virginity. Evidently she wasn't a virgin to preserve it for that special man who she would wed. She was a virgin because she thinks sex is disgusting. He never should have said he likes 'doggy style'. That's the worst impression you can give someone who thinks sex is nasty, dirty and disgusting. I lay the lions share of blame on Iris. Its not being married at first sight...It's being a husband and wife at first sight. Under these circumstances the first night maybe too much. When it came down to it in this threesome she choose Virginity over marriage and over being a wife. In case she doesn't know it sex is a loving bonding experience in which a couple share the greatest intimacy. Its the strongest way to communicate love when words no longer suffice.

If it was an issue with Keith (hard to believe it wasn't a factor) he should have made this a drop dead issue by the second maybe third week. How can he decide if he hasn't experienced his wife in the complete marriage package. He should have stopped pretending it wasn't an issue an told his wife he can't stay in a threesome relationship.

She probably feels self-righteous now for withholding. See he wasn't sincere. If he was sincere we'd never have sex and he'd be perfectly content wanking in the shower. He should have hopped in bed with a raging erection and said if you don't do something about this I will.

She blew it (not that...the marriage). I hope she grows up...

Jamie and Elizabeth

NFL

Deonna and Gregory.

We might see more of them in the future.

12 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

IMO, Keith was the classiest guy I ever saw on this show.  I can’t think of one thing he did wrong.  Iris, on the other hand, is still very immature in more ways than one.  She sort of reminds me of another era the way she thinks, like a child sometimes.  Why didn’t the experts catch that?  She may look sophisticated  and up to date, but her rapid speaking and some things she says are babyish.  For instance .. she was embarrassed when they played the game that suggested she do some things with Keith, but admitted to oral sex on t.v.  That right there struck me as very weird.  What Virgin would admit to that?  Only an immature child.

That was the elephant in the room, his only fault was not addressing that issue head on while the show and counselors will still there.

[DrewPaul2010]

3 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

Jamie always uses the roller coaster analogy mentioning the high highs and the very low lows.  But the editing from my perspective was mostly of the lows.  I did not predict Jamie would say yes, because I had seen too many table flippings and threats.

But perhaps they both know how bad they are and thought that maybe if the other person could accept them, then well...a yes could turn things around.

But, if the volcanic stuff continues, then 80%+ chance they are divorced within two years.  Good luck.

Some couples seem to thrive on the ups and downs...so you never know

[karenbrady]

16 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I totally agree. I was so annoyed at Pastor Cal and then his coddling of Iris. I am sorry she was hurt but she really could not read the room. The experts should never have paired these two. If her virginity was the only issue, I believe Keith would have been patient and worked on the marriage. However, it was her lack of emotional maturity and relationship experience that proved insurmountable for Keith. 

Thank you and now I agree with you in return for agreeing with me, lol. You nailed it. It's her childlike approach to the whole sex thing. He knew that that is not going to change anytime soon and that she would likely dangle her 'gift' in front of him for quite some time to come. He really kept it together during that ridic sex game. The patience of Jobe that man has.

[Ohwell]

50 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't like that either. "You've permanently fucked her up!" I mean, first of all, let's be real: Amber was already bringing issues into her relationships. She's really needy and is afraid of being abandoned. Matt didn't do that, though he certainly didn't help.

Second, Amber is perfectly capable of shaking this off and going on to have a healthy relationship in which she is pursued and desired. She may need some therapy to get there, but hell, we all need (or at least could benefit from) therapy. Iris was acting like Amber was permanently ruined for future relationships, and that doesn't have to be true.

The main reason I didn't like Iris is that she relished jutting that chin out and yapping about other people's problems/business.  She acted like some old busybody who sits on the porch watching all the goings on in the neighborhood.  Sipping lemonade, of course.

[Hangin Out]

17 hours ago, kerrieway said:

I think it was both: she wasn't his type physically or personality wise. When it comes to relationships, if it isn't a hell yeah, it's a hell no. I have no issue with him saying Iris is immature, I just don't think he ever communicated what he was looking for or gave her an opportunity to provide it (and in my opinion he either didn't do it because he saw she was never going to change/couldn't change or he didn't physically want her).

What does "maturity" mean to him anyway? Does that mean he wants her to try new things in the bedroom, be vulnerable with him about her fears? Is it something he can't even explain but something he's had before and he just knows it when he sees it/feels it? All I ever heard him say was, "maturity, maturity, maturity" just like all I ever heard her say was, "virginity, virginity, virginity." 

Also you can let someone down without being an ass. My quote in my first post is an example of that. 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, in general I like your posts Andy  I know I'm in the minority here because everyone else likes Keith. 

Why does he or anyone have to have a reason?  Just sayin.  Sometimes, a person will meet someone and know in one minute that they wouldn’t want to go further.  It may be their looks, the way they talk .. anything.  Some people just aren’t attracted to another person for no particular reason.  I could never go on a show like this.  I’d have to see the guy and maybe have a two minute conversation with him.  This show is fun, but the success rate isn’t great.  I still love it and watch, lol.  But, I’ll either bust my I pad or t.v. From frustration.

[Ohwell]

Amber actually gave Matt an out when she said "No" first.  I would've loved to have seen the expression on his face if she had said "Yes."  😅

[seacliffsal]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't like that either. "You've permanently fucked her up!" I mean, first of all, let's be real: Amber was already bringing issues into her relationships. She's really needy and is afraid of being abandoned. Matt didn't do that, though he certainly didn't help.

Second, Amber is perfectly capable of shaking this off and going on to have a healthy relationship in which she is pursued and desired. She may need some therapy to get there, but hell, we all need (or at least could benefit from) therapy. Iris was acting like Amber was permanently ruined for future relationships, and that doesn't have to be true.

Iris, once again, was acting as an expert on relationships.  She pretty consistently did so whenever the women/group was together.  This is also consistent with her view that Keith would need to make some changes before they could ever get together in the future (as if).  She seems to believe that she is an expert on most things.  How much lemonade one should drink, how to wash one's hands and face, relationships, etc.  Rather that let Amber tell Matt how he hurt her, Iris took over for her.  I think Keith was as polite as possible when stating that he wanted a divorce.  I also think that if Iris were more open to his views and perspectives things could have turned out differently; instead, we saw that she told Keith what he wanted, etc., and did not really listen to him just as she told Matt how he affected Amber rather than letting Amber decide for herself how Matt's actions impacted her life.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Hey y'all, I hope Robot Viviana can get plugged in and recharged in time for next season which is apparently already underway! (God help us!)........maybe someone will find something for her to wear besides that pink ruffled monstrosity........and will upload a thesaurus for her brain to find something else to say besides y'all when addressing the couples......

Beats the hell out of "you guys," though.  At least you can make "y'all" possessive--y'all's.  The best people can come up with as a possessive for "you guys" is "your guys's," pronounced your guyses, which makes no grammatical sense at all.

2 hours ago, OnTime said:

Oh, the grammar is terrible EVERY season.

Welcome to Married at First Sight!

It's every damn unscripted show, especially the ones with young people.

.

1 hour ago, luvly said:

In the long run, they mostly ended up with daughters who (a) became secretive and/or fantastic liars, (b) went wild to the nth degree when they went off to college, (c) had difficulty forming and sustaining adult romantic relationships or (d) some combination of all 3.  This is all speculative of course, but being a little bit older than Iris, I've seen this "virgin by any means necessary" dynamic play out amongst my peers so many times, with no thought given to the long-ranging effects, that I would not be surprised if that's what happened with her.

How does Iris's end run around technical virginity fit into this scheme?

It seems like all of my comments have to do with that, but it just bugs the shit out of me.  My only regret is that I'm all about accuracy, and she didn't specify what direction the oral sex went.  I would suspect that she was the performer, and it would be much easier to just rant, "What about BLOW JOBS, Iris?  Have you offered THAT to Keith?  If not, why not?  It's not like you were saving THAT for marriage."

[Rae Spellman]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Apparently she's had oral sex so she's not THAT inexperienced;

The thing about questions like "have you ever participated in oral sex?" is that if one has done it even once, the answer is yes. So, Iris could have answered the question truthfully while still being very, very inexperienced. 

7 hours ago, OnTime said:

Why do they call it "The Forever Decision"?

Does anyone really Greg/Deonna and Jamie/Eliz will be together forever?

The couples certainly hope so. Greg prayed for a wife. Deonna said she wouldn't have been selected if she wasn't meant to be with Greg. During one of the talks at the couple's retreat, Jaime mentioned something about being tired of dating. So, he's hoping that his crazy matches Beth's crazy enough for him to not need to be back out there. 

6 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

What did you like about him?  I'm being sincere.  I don't think he revealed much about himself. 

Some people are fairly terrible at being partners while also being interesting enough acquaintances.  Some of my favorite relatives are b.s. artists like Matt that I generally love from a distance but find nominally entertaining in small, controlled doses. I certainly found his execution of "chapter closed" and his approach to that final group gathering to be moderately entertaining.

6 hours ago, topanga said:

He and Deonna might need some couples' therapy in the future, but that's another story.  

Yes, it's probably better if they do it soon to help build a healthy foundation rather than waiting until "the future." Perhaps supplement it with some counseling from Greg's pastor so that they can get on the same page spiritually as well. 

5 hours ago, topanga said:

That might be true. So why would Keith tell Iris he was attracted to her and thought they were physically compatible? And then to tell the experts he was 100% attracted to Iris? 

That would make Keith a liar. 

Maybe he wasn't lying so much as implying that he'd be open to smashing Iris if smashing Iris was less of a big deal.

5 hours ago, sometimesjennifer said:

However, with Greg she still seemed almost shy and that's when something hit me: could the demeanor that a lot of people seem to perceive as coldness possibly just be the awkward shyness of a woman who has a "crush" on this awesome guy and is trying not to seem overly eager? Her last real relationship was with her high school boyfriend, and since then she has only had situationships that never went anywhere, possibly because she was TOO into guys who weren't interested in anything more than casual dating. So now she has this gem of a guy who is clearly into her and has already married her... she doesn't want to screw this up. She is sweet and silly and affectionate - we have seen this repeatedly. I think she wants to make sure Greg is all in before she reveals just how much she likes him. Just another way of looking at their scenario that occurred to me in that moment. 

Maybe that's what Greg came to believe, too. On decision day, when he looked at her and nodded, I read that as him reassuring her that their marriage could actually be okay and that she could stop overthinking it. When he reached for her hand, too. 

Greg sees the flaws that others see. He's also said more than once that Deonna has many characteristics he prayed for. Years ago, I was at a church service and the minister said something along the lines of "you can have what you want but you have to take everything that comes with it."  Maybe Greg decided that since God answered his prayers, he'll count his blessings instead of saying," seriously God? Surely you can do better than this."

Edited September 12, 2019 by RaeSpellman

[Ohwell]

22 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Iris, once again, was acting as an expert on relationships.  She pretty consistently did so whenever the women/group was together.  This is also consistent with her view that Keith would need to make some changes before they could ever get together in the future (as if).  She seems to believe that she is an expert on most things.  How much lemonade one should drink, how to wash one's hands and face, relationships, etc.  Rather that let Amber tell Matt how he hurt her, Iris took over for her.  I think Keith was as polite as possible when stating that he wanted a divorce.  I also think that if Iris were more open to his views and perspectives things could have turned out differently; instead, we saw that she told Keith what he wanted, etc., and did not really listen to him just as she told Matt how he affected Amber rather than letting Amber decide for herself how Matt's actions impacted her life.

Agreed.  You described Iris much more eloquently than I did. ☺️

[boobtube]

I understand Amber’s mixed feelings. I dated a guy like Matt for about 6 months. He was insanely handsome. Our first month together was incredible. Perfect first date, the best ever conversations, 3 hour phone calls, passionate sex. Then something switched off and he started treating me like garbage. I spent the next few months trying to get back to the pure bliss of our first few weeks together but it never happened. He wasn’t into it any more. It was confusing for me because I liked him so much in the beginning and he felt the same. Then a friend explained “He just wanted to get in your pants”. Oh.

[athousandclowns]

8 hours ago, answerphone said:

Matt is such an immature a$&#hole. The producers shouldn't even give him a paycheck.

Iris needs Keith to improve in so many ways? Give me a break. He's so much more mature than she is.

At that point she’s trying to save face. Fail. 

[LennieBriscoe]

7 hours ago, Lindz said:

Y'all see in the reunion preview, Iris had on her ring in her solo shot (ONLY)!! I thought that was Keith's new girlfriend, I didn't recognize her! 😂 Hate that stupid, child-like grin on his face, with his stupid braids. After the decision, he went out & used those 3 condoms. That's why he was late. 😂😂 BS liar. I knew he was gunna blindside her & hurt her... Then ask if she's ok. Bitch, you don't care! Fvck you! Fvck this! I NEVER wanna see your fvcking face again!! POS! She's too nice to him, being passive, like Amber. He's prolly the pathetic type to disappear on someone he's not into. Can't just be upfront to save his life. GTFOH

Well, THAT'S a different perspective.

[Farley]

I'm on the Keith train. Why was it up to him to do all the work?  I read a lot of folks saying she has the maturity of a 12 year old I disagree.  IMO she has the maturity level of an 8 year old. Picture yourself 12 to 16 years old, with your first boyfriend. Over a period of time, you do your 1st kiss, which then progresses to making out,  holding hands, cuddling, etc.  It's a natural thing as a relationship develops for intimacy to also develop, i.e. physical comfort and emotional comforr with your partner.  As an adult, this usually leads to sex in a natural way, a want to share that closeness and fun with your partner.  

Iris demonstrated NONE of that. Thus, I believe that is what Keith saw, and as such, checked out. I would have.  I'm a female, btw, I strongly believe being physically comfortable and sexually attracted to your spouse is very important.  I believe Keith found Iris physically attractive,  but not sexually attractive.  This is very possible, I find a lot of people physically attractive, but don't want to jump their bones.

This is why I sincerely hope Iris gets counseling,  I don't think she has a clue what a relationship is.  She comes across as thinking that marriage is making dinner together, shopping together, etc., not a true emotional connection. Her look of hope when Keith said he was unsure of the future showed that she doesn't have a clue what went wrong. I'm so hoping her mother or a professional can help her. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

4 hours ago, sometimesjennifer said:

 could the demeanor that a lot of people seem to perceive as coldness possibly just be the awkward shyness of a woman who has a "crush" on this awesome guy and is trying not to seem overly eager? 

Whatever the truth is, I am thrilled they chose to stay married and have high hopes for their future.

I think this is a good theory, and Amber is the counterpoint. Her marriage was likely doomed no matter what because Matt... is... but her insatiable, giddy obsession with him from the altar on did NOT help. Maybe in his twisted ethical yoga, if she had at least played it cool he would’ve done her the honor of not cheating as much. 

5 hours ago, Spectator said:

I just don’t envision having sex once every two months, if that’s what it ends up being, will cut it in the long run. Deonna’s theory that the infrequency will make it that much more mind blowing doesn’t hold true with most people. 

This keeps getting repeated but it is NOT what Deonna said or intended in that conversation. Greg asked her what the least frequent she could put up with was, and that was her limit. She said IF it were that rare it would have to be mind-blowing to make up for the infrequency. Sometimes these forums feel like a game of Whisper Down the Lane! 

4 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

But perhaps they both know how bad they are and thought that maybe if the other person could accept them, then well...a yes could turn things around.

But, if the volcanic stuff continues, then 80%+ chance they are divorced within two years.  Good luck.

This is actually why I think they could last a long time. They both seem to accept that their relationship is going to be volatile, even if they pay lip service to the idea that it shouldn’t be. Some couples just like being miserable together and these two might be that type. As Beth said when they were toasting the decision, “he’s crazy, but he’s my kind of crazy!” She sounded kind of happy about it. I just feel bad for their pets and hope they don’t bring any small humans into that environment. Fortunately they seem to agree on being childfree which is a first on MAFS. 

[Ilovepie]

People who are giving side eye to Iris for saying Keith would need to improve some things in order for them to get back together: Look, I get it that she is high strung and difficult, but she is not wrong about this. Keith is not perfect. Iris was bewildered multiple times in watching his TH's on Unfiltered because he never addressed some of his issues directly with her. He even admitted on the retreat that he doesn't share his feelings openly in relationships. I don't think she is wrong in saying he would need to change. That doesn't mean that she wouldn't need to change as well, but I agree with her that he would need to be more forthcoming in expressing his feelings to her, and I don't think that makes her living in some fantasy land where she thinks she is perfect.

And while I am thinking about it, I dislike his hedging about the odds of them getting back together. I think it's almost as big of a line of bs as Matt's "hopeful" speech. Matt's just an ass, but I do not know why these guys who asked for a divorce start waffling after the fact (I am also thinking about Will last season). If you hadn't fully made up your mind, then you should have just said yes on D-day and saw it out. I think they do this to not come across as bad guys on TV, but this just seems cruel to the other person who wanted to stay married and is crushed.

[After7Only]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Let's say you're a 20-something year old sexually active man, and you're dating a 19-20 year old female virgin--or maybe she's 27!-- who was skittish about sex and seemed afraid of sex. You wouldn't automatically think of her as a frigid bitch who wielded her virginity like a weapon, nor would you sit back and wait for her to turn into a porn star and seduce YOU. If you liked her and were attracted to her, you'd go on dates and slow dance together, kiss a little, pet a little, grind a little, and sometimes remove some clothing--all while reassuring her that you liked her a person and that you weren't just trying to get into her pants. You'd even talk about sex sometimes--what she thought about it, how far she'd gone in the past, what your own sexual experiences were like. Eventually, when she felt comfortable, she'd learn to trust you and would spread those legs wide. 

I just didn't see Keith doing any of that. Greg did many of those things to try to get Deonna to open up to him, but Keith did not. 

We did see him do at least some of these things.   We saw them hold hands and kiss, the dutty whine dance session, the dice game, etc.  In all of those scenarios he looked a lot more comfortable and into the activity than Iris did.    What he did seem weak at was telling her that he found her attractive, found her sexy etc.  This is a similar issue that Deonna had, but Greg was really good and persistent on letting her know he needed to hear those things and encouraging her to share her feelings.   We didn't see that from Iris.  

At the end of the day, maybe it was just classic communication issues that was their downfall.    

[luvly]

29 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

How does Iris's end run around technical virginity fit into this scheme?

She's in solid (d) territory to me. The secretive/liar part is usually about maintaining the "good girl" persona they've been told is so important. It's mostly used to hide the fact that they've engaged in some sort of sexual activity, but I've also seen people do it to hide the fact that they're now deeply neurotic about sex and their lack of experience. She may actually consider the little bit of all the bases but no homerun action she's experienced to be her version of wild, hence why she buries it like it's shameful behavior. She clearly had trouble sustaining this relationship with Keith and, according to her mom, her past relationships didn't fare any better. In my opinion, Iris isn't really all that proud of her virginity; she's super insecure about it and probably struggling with natural desires vs. feeling that it's dirty. Her problem is that, rather than embracing the vulnerability that comes with addressing her particular clusterfuck of sexual issues, she chose to double down instead.

5 hours ago, sometimesjennifer said:

However, with Greg she still seemed almost shy and that's when something hit me: could the demeanor that a lot of people seem to perceive as coldness possibly just be the awkward shyness of a woman who has a "crush" on this awesome guy and is trying not to seem overly eager? 

You hit the nail right on the head for me. I find that so much of what she does makes sense when you view it through the "What if he doesn't like the real Deonna?" comment she made when Pastor Cal visited them. She plays it cool and the editing played into that, but there were times you could tell there was a real closeness and camaraderie there between her and Greg.

[Hangin Out]

34 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Well, THAT'S a different perspective.

There’s a reunion?  How many nights?  Between this show and the others, I don’t know what’s what anymore.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, luvly said:

I'm so glad you said this because it touches on something that's been rattling around in my brain for awhile re: Iris' seemingly level-headed mother. IIRC, Iris said her parents split when she was young, I want to say when she was around 4 years old. Parents generally try to keep their daughters from becoming sexually active too young, but in my experience single mothers (particularly black single mothers) place a lot of importance on making sure their daughters don't turn out "fast" and/or get knocked up as a teen. I can't tell you the number of HS friends I had whose single moms imposed all kinds of rules and regulations designed to keep them virgins: no boy/girl parties, no sleepovers if the friend has brothers, group dates only until they're 18, meeting the boy's parents before they were officially allowed to date, dating privileges revoked if their GPA fell below 3.0 (regardless of the reason), only talking to him on the landline in full view of everyone (it was the late 90s/early 00s), can't ride alone in a car with a boy, can only see PG movies together in the theater (ticket stub proof required) and leaning on religious purity culture even if they weren't necessarily all that religious themselves.

Well said.   I really agree with the part I bolded.  When I was growing up in the 70's, a lot of black mothers, and fathers too were aware of the stigma of being a single mother, plus add being black to that.  Nothing wrong with being a single mother, it's just that there was a stigma attached to young black girls that you were "fast" especially if you had a large behind (I kid you not).  

It's not just black folk who tell all kinds of stuff to their daughters.  I used to know a woman who was told that "only prostitutes and Gypsies have their ears pierced" so she never had her ears pierced.  Now, to be fair, ear piercing was probably more about hygiene, but why not just say that?  Why tell tales?

I think Deonna is more into Greg than she lets on.  She knows he's into her, but maybe she has seen (as I have) what happens when you let a man know how you feel a little too early, i.e Matt and Amber.  Also there's the issue of the camera and these folks being produced.  When Greg and Deonna were making their decision, Greg looked like he was about to start laughing and when I looked at Deonna, she too looked like something was funny.  Probably the producers told them to drag it out for the show and they felt silly doing it.  I think Deonna will stay with Greg because deep down she knows she might never find a better man than Greg.  She may not be as into him as he's into her but I think she's grown enough to realize, "damn, I'm lucky to have this man."

[sometimesjennifer]

50 minutes ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

This keeps getting repeated but it is NOT what Deonna said or intended in that conversation. Greg asked her what the least frequent she could put up with was, and that was her limit. She said IF it were that rare it would have to be mind-blowing to make up for the infrequency. Sometimes these forums feel like a game of Whisper Down the Lane! 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! Every time someone says "Deonna only wants sex once a month" I feel like I am missing something because I didn't get that impression from that conversation at all. Thank you for the confirmation that the conversation didn't actually go that way. They definitely get each other a lot more than some people here perceive. The one and only time we ever really saw them having an "argument" was that time on the couch when Greg was teasing her by talking over her, and she seemed to know he was joking but got impatient because she wasn't feeling it in that moment. Their personalities generally click really well. On Unfiltered, he was asked what his least favorite moment of the process was, and he couldn't think of one single thing!! That doesn't sound like a guy who is mistreated by or unhappy with his wife.

I think a lot of people decided they hated Deonna early on and then watch all of their scenes through that lens. I, on the other hand, absolutely adore both her and Greg, so I watch their scenes through my heart shaped glasses. 😍

[Neurochick]

Loved what she said about all of the couples, especially what she said about Amber, how she needs to seriously love herself.

Also It would be interesting if the couples had 8 weeks with cameras, 2 weeks without cameras and then make their decision.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Neurochick

[Elizzikra]

5 hours ago, Lindz said:

HOW?? Was she just supposed to wake up one day & decide it was time? All on her own? No help from him.. yeah, right. That's ridiculous! I mean, on Unfiltered, she said he never said he was attracted to her or complimented her. Physical intimacy takes TWO to build, but he left it all on her... WHAT'D he expect her to do?😒😒 He wanted her to fail, he's glad she didn't initiate sex. He couldn't handle the pressure of being her 1st.

Well... yes. It was her virginity and she made such a huge deal out of how important it was to her and how long she had waited and all the reasons she had for waiting. Clearly she wasn’t simply waiting for marriage - if that was her only reason she would have had sex on her wedding night or sometime in the two months after they married. She wasn’t even comfortable talking about sex. If I were Keith, hell yes I would be waiting for Iris to very specifically say “I am ready to have sex with you” if for no other reason that he wouldn’t want Iris to accusing him of forcing her or pressuring her or whatever. 

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, sometimesjennifer said:

I think a lot of people decided they hated Deonna early on and then watch all of their scenes through that lens. I, on the other hand, absolutely adore both her and Greg, so I watch their scenes through my heart shaped glasses. 😍

Yep. I feel exactly the same. But from now until forever, people will be saying she dictates how much sex they have and it’s only once a month. And then he gets a doggie treat. 🙄

[Jeanne222]

I hope I never hear the word 'virgin' again!

[Ohwell]

Sitting there on D Day, Greg did look confident that Deonna would say Yes, so I'm guessing they had probably discussed their decisions before they spent the night apart. 

Deonna seemed like a nice person when she wasn't talking about walls, but my main gripe with her was that squeaky voice that had her sounding like a six year old.   And Greg did come off as whipped at times.  But hey, I wish them luck.

[Mercolleen]

6 hours ago, pdlinda said:

OHHHH!  That canned DRAMATIC MUSIC drove me NUTS!!  I kept yelling:  ENOUGH!!

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/everylittlething?selected=GLT5037225297

[luckylou]

Poor Iris; she was trying so hard to speak correctly.   At least that’s my observation.  People who use “I” when “me” is correct are trying too hard to sound well educated. Keith  speaks generally good English, and without having to use twenty words where five would have done.  

At the beginning of the season, I think he did seem attracted to her, but as time went by, he seemed to become more and more disinterested.  Notice that he never even touched her in the later episodes.  Men seduce virgins all the time, obviously.  

They just were not a good match in terms of personality.

Edited September 13, 2019 by luckylou

[NoWhammies]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

 there was a stigma attached to young black girls that you were "fast" especially if you had a large behind (I kid you not).  

A large behind was associated with being fast? I think I sort of get this from a white Catholic schoolgirl growing up in the 70s and 80s perspective. I sprouted boobs in third grade. They continued to - er - flower. The nuns were not amused. My mom was not amused. It was assumed because I had a nice set of tatas from 8 years old onward, that I was not only gonna be a big old slut, but probably already was. My mom spent a lot of time threatening me about going too far with boys even when boys were the farthest things from my mind. The nuns spent a lot of time giving me disapproving looks.

It was a whole thing. For instance, when I was 15 or 16 (and still a virgin), I was in a department with my mom clothes shopping during a sale - so it was super crowded. Suddenly, apropos of nothing, my mom looked at me and said at the top of her lungs, "I sure hope you're on the pill!" I wanted to die I was so embarrassed. She also used to always worry I was going to "go into the bushes with boys." Yeah - because that's where I'd choose to have all of my sexual experiences - in itchy old bushes with bugs everywhere. 

And so, as I got into my teen years and started to explore physical intimacy in the way a lot of teen girls in the 70s and 80s did, I definitely had to balance out all of these messages I'd received from all of the disapproving adult females in my life. It was a struggle for a while. It's tough stuff for an 8-year-old girl not even thinking about sex to fathom, and the longer it goes on and the more influential people in your lives that feed you those messages, the more you internalize them. And certainly as a Catholic school girl, I also struggled with shame about not only my body changing, but also with my growing interest in physical intimacy. But then I had sex, realized it was awesome, and I got over it...

I suspect Iris equates virgin with "good girl". And so she wants everyone to see and know she is "good" because she is a virgin. She's still trying to live up to the social strictures under which she was raised. For some reason, she hasn't made the leap to, "I'm an adult and I can do any damn thing I please with my body" yet. 

Oh also - my mom also told me that only prostitutes and gypsies get their ears pierced. I responded by getting mine pierced about eight times, as well as getting my nose pierced. My husband tells me I am "demand resistant." 

[Adeejay]

4 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

IMO, Keith was the classiest guy I ever saw on this show.  I can’t think of one thing he did wrong.  Iris, on the other hand, is still very immature in more ways than one.  She sort of weird.  

Keith appears to be an all around decent guy and a gentleman.  What the "experts" did to him was wrong on so many different levels.  I can't believe they had the audacity to get upset when he walked.

I would really like to know why they thought Matt and Iris were viable candidates for this "experiment". 

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

No. It seems like they've done away with those talks when they did away with having them find and pay for their own housing, which is unfortunate - IMO that was the only thing that made these seem like real relationships.  They didn't do it in Philly either.

WAIT!!  Weren't Will and Jasmine in the Philly season?  If yes, wasn't the crux of the collapse of their relationship the fact that Jasmine wanted Will to support her 100% financially??? I seem to recall them talking about finances A LOT.

[Spectator]

Iris and Deonna both remind me of my friends who married their high school sweethearts then 10 years later got divorced and didn’t really know how to date when they hit the singles scene again. I think both women were jittery and insecure about their sexual experience and skills and tended to just avoid the topic and/or situation as much as possible. The difference in the outcome was at least in part a result of the way their respective spouses responded (the producers just made Iris’s sexual inexperience the main component of her storyline). Greg was the epitome of patience and acceptance but Keith eventually lost interest with the stagnant, undeveloped and immature state of their relationship.

I am actually really sad about Keith and Iris. She didn’t bug me as much as she seems to have bugged others on this site. She was quirky and weird, but her quirkiness was at least a more genuine quirkiness, unlike Big Red. Sure she was a little uptight, but I still liked her and I was really holding out hope that Keith would try marriage without the cameras. I think these 8 weeks don’t really reflect what a real marriage will be like whatsoever so I think if there’s even a hint of something there, why not try a little longer and let real life be the back drop instead of choreographed MAFS drama.

[spunky]

8 hours ago, cinsays said:

My feeling is that he just said that to be kind to her, to let her feel that he did like her,  but he would not really be interested.  At least I hope I am right.

I don’t know anymore. With this show anything can happen. I can’t wait to see the reunion show.

[Spectator]

One thing I will say about Iris, she handled being dumped on national television with more grace than many ever could (again, recall when Sam ran outside in a fit of anger when Neil said he wanted a divorce). Even after she had time to process all of it and she and Keith were packing she never got defensive or angry or even sloppy sad. She just assured Keith that she would be good. That was all class.

[Happyfatchick]

6 hours ago, topanga said:

This.

Let's say you're a 20-something year old sexually active man, and you're dating a 19-20 year old female virgin--or maybe she's 27!-- who was skittish about sex and seemed afraid of sex. You wouldn't automatically think of her as a frigid bitch who wielded her virginity like a weapon, nor would you sit back and wait for her to turn into a porn star and seduce YOU. If you liked her and were attracted to her, you'd go on dates and slow dance together, kiss a little, pet a little, grind a little, and sometimes remove some clothing--all while reassuring her that you liked her a person and that you weren't just trying to get into her pants. You'd even talk about sex sometimes--what she thought about it, how far she'd gone in the past, what your own sexual experiences were like. Eventually, when she felt comfortable, she'd learn to trust you and would spread those legs wide. 

I just didn't see Keith doing any of that. Greg did many of those things to try to get Deonna to open up to him, but Keith did not.  

Happyfatchick is bowing and clapping.  Yes, yes,yes, this, this, THIS!

Left turn:  when Deonna saw Greg’s house, she sure kept her cool.  His house was gorgeous.  Nothing over the top, she just nodded and said casually, “yeah, this is nice”.  I’m a gusher, I would have been unable to hide that in my talking heads for the whole season.  “I think we’ve grown a lot, I’m learning to love Greg.  And his house”.  “Greg is being such a trouper, eating that octopus and crunchy bugs... (eyes glazing, unfocused...)...those 2 ovens...”

[Kareem]

wrong thread. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Kareem

[Nicola]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

7 hours ago, luvly said:

I'm so glad you said this because it touches on something that's been rattling around in my brain for awhile re: Iris' seemingly level-headed mother. IIRC, Iris said her parents split when she was young, I want to say when she was around 4 years old. Parents generally try to keep their daughters from becoming sexually active too young, but in my experience single mothers (particularly black single mothers) place a lot of importance on making sure their daughters don't turn out "fast" and/or get knocked up as a teen. I can't tell you the number of HS friends I had whose single moms imposed all kinds of rules and regulations designed to keep them virgins: no boy/girl parties, no sleepovers if the friend has brothers, group dates only until they're 18, meeting the boy's parents before they were officially allowed to date, dating privileges revoked if their GPA fell below 3.0 (regardless of the reason), only talking to him on the landline in full view of everyone (it was the late 90s/early 00s), can't ride alone in a car with a boy, can only see PG movies together in the theater (ticket stub proof required) and leaning on religious purity culture even if they weren't necessarily all that religious themselves.

Read more  

Well said.   I really agree with the part I bolded.  When I was growing up in the 70's, a lot of black mothers, and fathers too were aware of the stigma of being a single mother,

I teach and it's been my experience that the "going wild" after a growing up in a single-parent household has more to do with missing daddy/mommy issues than the rules. It's not every single person, of course, but the stats show that teenagers in two-parent families have sex later and tend not to become single parents themselves. (Again, you can come from a two-parent household and screw all day, but the chances of this are higher in single-parent families.) Family environment is very powerful. 

[Adeejay]

12 minutes ago, Spectator said:

One thing I will say about Iris, she handled being dumped on national television with more grace than many ever could.

Being the gentleman that he appears to be, I have a sneaking suspicion that Keith gave Iris a heads up about what his decision would be.  He probably threw in the part about the possibility of them getting together a little later down the line. No way in hades would Iris take rejection so calmly.  No way!

[Rae Spellman]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Greg did come off as whipped at times.  But hey, I wish them luck.

On Unfiltered he pretty much said he said he was smitten from the beginning.

58 minutes ago, NoWhammies said:

A large behind was associated with being fast? 

Sometimes. In my experience, it wasn't that folks thought I was fast so much as they acknowledged that it made me a potential target for older boys and/or men who were up to no good.  

[Stella Rose]

A few observations:   

Amber will never, ever attract or keep a decent guy until she fixes herself.  In my 20s I was Amber.  Abandonment issues, clingy, over-pleaser,  the whole 9.  I attracted (chose) men who were such losers that of course they could never leave me (no jobs, no family, no money, no prospects.).  If Amber had said yes, Matt probably would have stayed (and strayed).   I refuse to waste one more keystroke on that asshat.  Yuck.  He pretty much personifies 'douchebag'.

Keith was in a no win situation.  If he "took" I-I-Iris' virginity then left, he would be the heel of the century.  If he says no, then all he cares about is sex and he's a jerk.  I think he chose the best option for his future.  I wish him well, he seems like a decent guy.  A bit immature in his own way, but decent enough.

Jamie and Red - oi.   In some odd way I actually hope they make it.  Or at least they manage to not kill each other.  Maybe once the cameras are gone they can settle down.  Yeah, right.  ha ha.

Deonna and Greg - Happy for these two.  I actually think they have a really good chance and have built a pretty solid foundation.  They may be success couple #6 (or is it 7?)

[endure]

19 hours ago, antfitz said:

 She doesn't have to give it up. But as a married woman, she should. That's what marriage is about sharing everything including sex.  I wonder if she is asexual,  Because she didn't have any kind of feeling or wanting to have any intimacy. They didn't really kiss or make out.

I agree of course she should give it up, why make it such a big deal.  I’ve said it before we were all virgins and most just move on from that.  It wasn’t that long ago when many women married as virgins.  I too wonder if she has some doubts about her sexuality and where exactly she fits in.  I can certainly understand why Keith felt they weren’t on the same playing field.  I hope she figures it out she deserves more than she’s allowing herself.  She is not ready for marriage at this point.

[luckylou]

3 hours ago, Spectator said:

I am actually really sad about Keith and Iris. She didn’t bug me as much as she seems to have bugged others on this site. She was quirky and weird, but her quirkiness was at least a more genuine quirkiness, unlike Big Red. Sure she was a little uptight, but I still liked her and I was really holding out hope that Keith would try marriage without the cameras. I think these 8 weeks don’t really reflect what a real marriage will be like whatsoever so I think if there’s even a hint of something there, why not try a little longer and let real life be the back drop instead of choreographed MAFS drama.

I kept wondering if Iris was less uptight and quirky when the cameras weren’t there.  Surely she was...just a little...but to me, when Keith talks about her inability to be intimate, I suspect he is talking about how uptight and formal she always is.  Her biggest secret was swallowing a quarter?  Surely the intention of the “expert” was to get both of them talking about a really personal secret experience.  I wonder what Keith's was?  I don’t think this was shared with us.  Why not?

Notice that we learned absolutely nothing about either of them, really.  The only apparent conflict involved Keith’s friends drinking lemonade from the fridge, uninvited.  So it seemed they must be getting along...but maybe they were more like ships passing in the night than two people trying to get to know each other.

I feel sorry for Iris...the “experts”did her a disservice to have cast her, but they are always looking for participants likely to cause controversy or to have emotional crises.  I thought they seemed shocked when Keith began sounding as though he would ask for a divorce.  Why?  They thought he was too nice a guy and would say yes and then wait a few weeks to split, off camera.  I thought so, too, but maybe he decided just to be honest.

[Lindz]

9 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Why does he or anyone have to have a reason?  Just sayin.  Sometimes, a person will meet someone and know in one minute that they wouldn’t want to go further.  It may be their looks, the way they talk .. anything.  Some people just aren’t attracted to another person for no particular reason.  I could never go on a show like this.  I’d have to see the guy and maybe have a two minute conversation with him.  This show is fun, but the success rate isn’t great.  I still love it and watch, lol.  But, I’ll either bust my I pad or t.v. From frustration.

Because there IS A REASON & EVERYONE should be adults & just SAY THEM!!!! NOT VAGUE, CONFUSING BS so both can, PROMPTLY, move on. You see how bs lies drag it out?? Totally counter to the type that just checks out. 😂

[LennieBriscoe]

18 hours ago, OnTime said:

Why do they call it "The Forever Decision"?

Does anyone really Greg/Deonna and Jamie/Eliz will be together forever?

Given that half of American "normal" marriages end in divorce,  I'd say their odds are just as good....or bad. 

My understanding is that if participants opt for divorce on D-Day, the show arranges and pays for it. Any time afterwards, the costs are on the couple. So that's a possible motivation behind a decision not to keep hope alive. 

As for giving explicit reasons for wanting to divorce,  sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[SandyMac12]

15 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Hell NO !

I don't think Jamie & Liz will last at all, esp if she can't tame her temper!

[Hangin Out]

14 hours ago, Ohwell said:

The main reason I didn't like Iris is that she relished jutting that chin out and yapping about other people's problems/business.  She acted like some old busybody who sits on the porch watching all the goings on in the neighborhood.  Sipping lemonade, of course.

What’s the saying?  Screw loose, or chip missing?  That’s Iris.  Babyish and immature.  The “experts couldn’t catch that”?  I caught that as soon as the lemon aid scene was shown.  Right there, Keith knew he was a goner.  The lemonade was the clincher.  No adult would act that way with guests in the house.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Silver Bells

[Hangin Out]

Iris:  Two glasses per guest.

        You ain’t putting that big ugly thing in me.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Silver Bells

[SandyMac12]

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Well... yes. It was her virginity and she made such a huge deal out of how important it was to her and how long she had waited and all the reasons she had for waiting. Clearly she wasn’t simply waiting for marriage - if that was her only reason she would have had sex on her wedding night or sometime in the two months after they married. She wasn’t even comfortable talking about sex. If I were Keith, hell yes I would be waiting for Iris to very specifically say “I am ready to have sex with you” if for no other reason that he wouldn’t want Iris to accusing him of forcing her or pressuring her or whatever. 

Yeah, I think after 3-4 weeks he realized she really has some deeper issue, and just rode out his time...