S16.E24: Daughters

[thewhiteowl]

Fornell pleads with Gibbs to do whatever it takes to bring down the drug dealers and suppliers when his daughter is hospitalized because of an opiate overdose. 

[Dr.OO7]

HOLY SHIT!!

[mariah23]

3 minutes ago, Camille said:

HOLY SHIT!!

I know!!

[Linderhill]

Ugh.  That has got to be the worst season finale this series has had.  First off, Diane.  She was annoying when she was alive, now she's even worse.  The kid was a brat, Fornell was annoying and then there was that ending.  Yeah, we don't need HER back stinking up the show.

This may be the straw that breaks me.  I have no desire to see the Ziva show again.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Linderhill
needed to add a thought.

[secnarf]

I have always liked Fornell, but hated him tonight.

Can't decide if I am surprised Ziva is back or not, but I thought Gibbs would/should think he is hallucinating her, since he has a history with this. We know Ziva is still alive from 'She' earlier this season, but if not for Ziva looking a bit different/older Gibbs should think he is hallucinating.

[Chaos Theory]

Really good episode. I am really glad the show went with Fornell's daughter having a drug problem instead of her getting drugged.  It is a much much better story considering her family's long standing place on the show.  Add to that she is in the sweet spot for drug addiction,  Mom is dead.  Dad's an alcholic.  She is going off to school with no overbearing parents...it isn't hard to see how it happened.  

I love how Fornell keeps calling Diana "our ex wife" when he talks to Gibbs.  Like they are some sort of sister wives or brother husbands.

I loved Diane when she was alive so I didn't mind any  of her scenes.  I think some of the best episodes involved Diane.

Not a huge Ziva fan but ZIVA!!!!!!!! anyway.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[mommalib]

2 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

Ugh.  That has got to be the worst season finale this series has had.  First off, Diane.  She was annoying when she was alive, now she's even worse.  The kid was a brat, Fornell was annoying and then there was that ending.  Yeah, we don't need her back stinking up the show.

Yeah Both Diane and the daughter are not likable and I didn't appreciate  Fornell pulling that gun out on that doctor, that was too over the top. But I have to say they legit surprised me with Ziva. But i'm a little disappointing we didn't find out who Jack has feelings for.

[Katy M]

Emily was a whiny brat.  She's too old for that crap.

I get that Fornell was understandably worried and panicked, but there was absolutely no excuse for him to pull a gun on the doctor. 

What an active hallucination Diane is.  I'm not a big fan of hallucinations.

[enoughcats]

After Diane left, Mr. Ecats said," next we'll see the Israeli come through the door."

Confidently I exclaimed" Won't happen, she's left acting and would never come back to NCIS".

Mr. Ecats is still laughing at me.

[Ohmo]

Well, that was a most unfortunate ending.  The plague has returned.

[Runningwild]

I think I’m over this show. I wasn’t interested enough to watch the season finale. And now Ziva is back? Big old pass from me. 

[headhoncho]

I loved it!  So excited to see Ziva - I just hope Gibbs isn't imagining her!

[stonehaven]

This sucked on so many levels. They have killed two great characters for the same reason..to give Gibbs angst. I recall Emily being a strong force for her Dad in the past..and she trusted Gibbs enough to go to him when things were rough...and Fornell to go all rogue on that doctor? Puleaze..He's too smart for that...He had Gibbs to be there to support him..

What in the hell did they do to these people? I know some say that people grow over time but this isn't growth ,it's regression..and Diane being a hallucination..fine...they dropped the whole Mike Franks hologram years ago..but Gibbs would have ignored any hallucination at the office...He wouldn't have allowed himself to be overheard yelling to no one...and that weird Diane as GIbbs to Fornell? I expected "Unchained Melody" to start any moment...

As for Gibbs breaking down? That also is a bunch of BS. He lived for many years with the revenge killing he did..and in the past several seasons, he made his peace with it and gently warned others not to follow in his footsteps. He hasn't been burying it like a troubled teenager. He has been dealing with it...in his own Gibbs way..To make him seem like he's lost it, is lazy writing and lazy research...

..and bringing Ziva back? Yeah, that was a surprise..but last time I checked, this wasn't "Dallas", this was NCIS, a quirky light hearted CSI type show...What in the name of John Denver has happened to this once, great show?

Maybe Gary Glasberg needs to appear as a hallucination in the writers room and show them how it's really done...

Sheesh...I have to be done with this show now...no matter how many seasons they have left or else it'll be a hate-watch thing..and I've never hate-watched anything...

Glad you guys are here as every time I rant on Facebook about how much NCIS sucked in a particular episode, I have many friends who defend it as great television..(Hell, my Mom disagrees with me)...

Oh yeah, I was bored too....

[Linderhill]

26 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

This sucked on so many levels. They have killed two great characters for the same reason..to give Gibbs angst. I recall Emily being a strong force for her Dad in the past..and she trusted Gibbs enough to go to him when things were rough...and Fornell to go all rogue on that doctor? Puleaze..He's too smart for that...He had Gibbs to be there to support him..

What in the hell did they do to these people? I know some say that people grow over time but this isn't growth ,it's regression..and Diane being a hallucination..fine...they dropped the whole Mike Franks hologram years ago..but Gibbs would have ignored any hallucination at the office...He wouldn't have allowed himself to be overheard yelling to no one...and that weird Diane as GIbbs to Fornell? I expected "Unchained Melody" to start any moment...

As for Gibbs breaking down? That also is a bunch of BS. He lived for many years with the revenge killing he did..and in the past several seasons, he made his peace with it and gently warned others not to follow in his footsteps. He hasn't been burying it like a troubled teenager. He has been dealing with it...in his own Gibbs way..To make him seem like he's lost it, is lazy writing and lazy research...

..and bringing Ziva back? Yeah, that was a surprise..but last time I checked, this wasn't "Dallas", this was NCIS, a quirky light hearted CSI type show...What in the name of John Denver has happened to this once, great show?

Maybe Gary Glasberg needs to appear as a hallucination in the writers room and show them how it's really done...

Sheesh...I have to be done with this show now...no matter how many seasons they have left or else it'll be a hate-watch thing..and I've never hate-watched anything...

Glad you guys are here as every time I rant on Facebook about how much NCIS sucked in a particular episode, I have many friends who defend it as great television..(Hell, my Mom disagrees with me)...

Oh yeah, I was bored too....

Everything you said @stonehaven, times 2.  I love Mark Harmon but this may be my motivation to finally quit this show.  And I've watched since that JAG backdoor pilot.  Seriously, Ziva? why?😡😠🤬

[scorpio1031]

I've been reading all your posts since I am on the West Coast and wasn't able to watch until now.  I have made it thru 16 minutes of the show and I'm done.  Fornell is being a jerk, Emily has miraculous recovery skills and Gibbs gets a text and Bishop wonders what's wrong??Though I did like Chapsnit:)

[green]

ZIVA!!!  Best ending ever!!!!!

Couldn't stand NCIS without her and heard about a story line so came in on the second half with the hidden cottage thing.  Then back to boring episodes.  Then tonight the final payoff!

Edited May 22, 2019 by green

[Magnumfangirl]

Mostly boring episode.  I can't stand Emily.  I knew Ziva was going to walk in as soon as Diane said "all of us" plus the title of the episode gave it away.  Was that new footage of Cote de Pablo or was that recycled from an old episode?  She looked too young for it to be newly filmed.  The whole thing felt really off the rails.

[CheshireCat]

This just made my day. It wasn't so much that she was dead but that her death was pointless (it didn't add anything to the story and she wasn't even the target of an assassination) that I was never quite able to get over. But this seems to confirm what "She" suggested and it makes me happy.

[preeya]

[buckboard]

Maybe Gibbs SHOULD retire.  Do people who are well keep having conversations with dead people?  Diane, Franks......  NCIS has turned into the "Ghost Whisperer."

Then comes Ziva.  Is SHE also a hallucination or is she back from the not really dead?  So she faked her death?  Have Tony and their daughter known all this time that  Ziva was alive?  Do they know now?  I suppose she'll say she did it to protect her daughter, but it seems like a horrible thing to keep from them if they didn't know.  

The show has been promoting this as a big reveal.  Maybe if there had been no mention of Ziva all year it would have been a big deal, but we all knew something was up after the episode when Bishop found all Ziva's case files.

I see a shark.....

 

[scorpio1031]

I suppose it’s too much to hope that Reeves is waiting upstairs for Ziva to get Gibbs from the basement 😕

[Lisa418722]

For a season finale, I was bored.  I understand Fornell being worried about his daughter, but pulling a gun on a doctor and yelling at him to bring every other doctor who is not on call is not the way to show you are worried.  I am glad that Emily had an opioid problem rather than being drugged because that is more realistic.   Ziva --- I had been debating whether or not to keep the show on the DVR for next season. Her reappearance made me decide it's time to take it off.   Good-bye NCIS.  I miss the show you were. 

[laredhead]

For those interested in how the final scene was kept a secret, here's a link to an article about it.  https://tvline.com/2019/05/21/ncis-cote-de-pablo-returns-ziva-season-17/

[abbey]

I am in the minority here because I loved the season finale.  Very glad they made Emily a drug user rather than a victim of someone spiking her drink.  Much more realistic.  I did not like Fornell pulling his gun on the doctor and his other over the top reactions.  I have never hated Ziva although I was glad when she left because it gave them a chance to  freshen up the show with some new people.  Cannot wait to see where exactly this new danger to Gibbs is coming from and I will be looking forward to more NCIS in the fall. 

[partofme]

9 hours ago, green said:

ZIVA!!!  Best ending ever!!!!!

Couldn't stand NCIS without her and heard about a story line so came in on the second half with the hidden cottage thing.  Then back to boring episodes.  Then tonight the final payoff!

I haven't watched regularly since she left.  Show did her dirty.  Ziva is my all time favorite female tv character.   I'm gonna have to check this out on demand.  

[Chaos Theory]

27 minutes ago, abbey said:

I am in the minority here because I loved the season finale.  Very glad they made Emily a drug user rather than a victim of someone spiking her drink.  Much more realistic.  I did not like Fornell pulling his gun on the doctor and his other over the top reactions.  I have never hated Ziva although I was glad when she left because it gave them a chance to  freshen up the show with some new people.  Cannot wait to see where exactly this new danger to Gibbs is coming from and I will be looking forward to more NCIS in the fall. 

Me too.  Honestly The Ziva reveal was the least interesting thing about the season.  I really enjoyed the Fornell storyline and thought he behaved like he always behaved which is why he gets along with Gibbs so well.  

I got bored of Ziva a long time ago and HATED all the stupid Israel plots.  I was glad to see her go.  Plus I love Bishop. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[MDL]

I liked it.  But.. to me Fornell at times looked like a crazed feral cat- out of control. (realizing that his daughter is near death).

I liked Diane, she was her typical bitchy self-but isn't that what Gibbs needs?

Emily was her usual bitchy/needy self, until she "cracked" and reverted to being the Daughter that admitted to needing help-loved that reconciliation,although it was a cliche'.

When Diane said "we" near the end, I had no clue as to who would be next, although I did recall the hints  that Ziva was alive. Was she real, or was she another Gibbsian hallucination?

And did she say"Gibbs you are in danger"??

[theredhead77]

12 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Really good episode. I am really glad the show went with Fornell's daughter having a drug problem instead of her getting drugged.  It is a much much better story considering her family's long standing place on the show.  Add to that she is in the sweet spot for drug addiction,  Mom is dead.  Dad's an alcholic.  She is going off to school with no overbearing parents...it isn't hard to see how it happened.  

I love how Fornell keeps calling Diana "our ex wife" when he talks to Gibbs.  Like they are some sort of sister wives or brother husbands.

I loved Diane when she was alive so I didn't mind any  of her scenes.  I think some of the best episodes involved Diane.

Not a huge Ziva fan but ZIVA!!!!!!!! anyway.

12 hours ago, headhoncho said:

I loved it!  So excited to see Ziva - I just hope Gibbs isn't imagining her!

10 hours ago, green said:

ZIVA!!!  Best ending ever!!!!!

Couldn't stand NCIS without her and heard about a story line so came in on the second half with the hidden cottage thing.  Then back to boring episodes.  Then tonight the final payoff!

1 hour ago, abbey said:

I am in the minority here because I loved the season finale.  Very glad they made Emily a drug user rather than a victim of someone spiking her drink.  Much more realistic.  I did not like Fornell pulling his gun on the doctor and his other over the top reactions.  I have never hated Ziva although I was glad when she left because it gave them a chance to  freshen up the show with some new people.  Cannot wait to see where exactly this new danger to Gibbs is coming from and I will be looking forward to more NCIS in the fall. 

1 hour ago, partofme said:

I haven't watched regularly since she left.  Show did her dirty.  Ziva is my all time favorite female tv character.   I'm gonna have to check this out on demand.  

I loved everything about this finale and hope Ziva is real. The only part about Ziva's return I'm not looking forward to is all the complaining about it.

[Dr.OO7]

8 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

I suppose it’s too much to hope that Reeves is waiting upstairs for Ziva to get Gibbs from the basement 😕

Or Kate.

Or Jenny.

That moment reminded me of an All My Children episode years ago when a character encountered someone who was Back From The Dead and sarcastically asked if another dead character was there also.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Camille

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, abbey said:

Very glad they made Emily a drug user rather than a victim of someone spiking her drink.  Much more realistic. 

I appreciated that too. A nice Untwist.

1 hour ago, abbey said:

I did not like Fornell pulling his gun on the doctor and his other over the top reactions

I'm so sick of TV cops doing things that in real life would get them fired and/or arrested.

[Ohmo]

4 minutes ago, Camille said:

I'm so sick of TV cops doing things that in real life would get them fired and/or arrested.

True, but Fornell was under a tremendous amount of stress.  I liked how Gibbs took the gun away and told Fornell what he was going to do (and not do).  It was "tough love" mixed with "I've got your back."

I did also like Gibbs' "Duck..." followed by Ducky's entrance and explanation about jurisdiction.  It was sort of a variation of "mic drop."  Plus, Ducky is awesome!

[meira.hand]

Ziva is clearly another hallucination as Diane specifically said: "We are all here for you, Inside", i.e. inside his mind. This season drew quite a lot from early story lines and characters and I suspect next season will include an ongoing "Gibbs gets in touch with his feelings" character development, with maybe more "visits". I think they tried to decrease the feeling of Gibbs going crazy by showing that both Fornell and his daughter saw her and had a conversation with her that included parts of Gibbs internal dialogue. This made it more of a fanciful fantasy element than a full fledged sign of mental breakup. Ziva looked older because IRL she is but they did their best to give her the same look to indicate it the old Ziva.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, meira.hand said:

Ziva is clearly another hallucination as Diane specifically said: "We are all here for you, Inside", i.e. inside his mind.

We already know for a fact that she's alive, so I don't think she was a hallucination.

[Rambler]

Over on NCIS: New Orleans, they had Pride spend most of the season talking to a dead CIA agent. Now with Gibbs channeling his ex-wife in this episode, I think we can reasonably assume that TPTB have all along been testing out the concept for the next chapter in the franchise - NCIS: We See Dead People.

[threebluestars]

It would be funny if she was a hallucination even though we know she's alive.

[Dr.OO7]

57 minutes ago, Rambler said:

Over on NCIS: New Orleans, they had Pride spend most of the season talking to a dead CIA agent. Now with Gibbs channeling his ex-wife in this episode, I think we can reasonably assume that TPTB have all along been testing out the concept for the next chapter in the franchise - NCIS: We See Dead People.

NCIS: Heaven?

[12catcrazy]

I used to like this show and I never watched it in it's "glory days".  I like the cast but I'm finding myself disliking how the cast is being portrayed and this new stupidity of having Gibbs talking to his dead ex-wife (and yeah, the NCIS New Orleans crap of Pride talking to some dead bimbo was too, too, much as well) is just no.  

And major eye rolling with the over-the-top Fornell and his constant wailing of "MY LITTLE GIRL".  WTF?   I'm beginning to think most of these tv writers have major Daddy issues or something.  Seems like every other show features some "father" just losing it over a daughter.    And the girl playing the 20 year old "Little girl" - ugh.   And so the White Middle Class opioid crisis finally hits NCIS. 

I don't know what to say about Ziva other than they must've made that actress an offer she couldn't refuse.  I kept reading that she was never, ever, coming back to NCIS so somebody must have dangled some big $$$ in order to get her to return.  I have no skin in the Ziva game as she was almost out of the show when I started watching, so I have no opinions about her.  

[thewhiteowl]

I really hope Ziva is not a hallucination. I had heard the actress had quit acting but maybe she feels better about coming back since Weatherly is gone. Just speculation, I never heard she had a problem with him but given what has come out I wouldn't be surprised.

[nitrofishblue]

Sorry, but I really didn't enjoy this episode. The writing and acting was way way way overdone. Even my husband commented that it was a POS show.

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 hours ago, stonehaven said:

This sucked on so many levels. They have killed two great characters for the same reason..to give Gibbs angst. I recall Emily being a strong force for her Dad in the past..and she trusted Gibbs enough to go to him when things were rough...and Fornell to go all rogue on that doctor? Puleaze..He's too smart for that...He had Gibbs to be there to support him..

What in the hell did they do to these people? I know some say that people grow over time but this isn't growth ,it's regression..and Diane being a hallucination..fine...they dropped the whole Mike Franks hologram years ago..but Gibbs would have ignored any hallucination at the office...He wouldn't have allowed himself to be overheard yelling to no one...and that weird Diane as GIbbs to Fornell? I expected "Unchained Melody" to start any moment...

As for Gibbs breaking down? That also is a bunch of BS. He lived for many years with the revenge killing he did..and in the past several seasons, he made his peace with it and gently warned others not to follow in his footsteps. He hasn't been burying it like a troubled teenager. He has been dealing with it...in his own Gibbs way..To make him seem like he's lost it, is lazy writing and lazy research...

..and bringing Ziva back? Yeah, that was a surprise..but last time I checked, this wasn't "Dallas", this was NCIS, a quirky light hearted CSI type show...What in the name of John Denver has happened to this once, great show?

Maybe Gary Glasberg needs to appear as a hallucination in the writers room and show them how it's really done...

Sheesh...I have to be done with this show now...no matter how many seasons they have left or else it'll be a hate-watch thing..and I've never hate-watched anything...

Glad you guys are here as every time I rant on Facebook about how much NCIS sucked in a particular episode, I have many friends who defend it as great television..(Hell, my Mom disagrees with me)...

Oh yeah, I was bored too....

A million gazillion trillion fazookian times THIS.

17 hours ago, Linderhill said:

Everything you said @stonehaven, times 2.  I love Mark Harmon but this may be my motivation to finally quit this show.  And I've watched since that JAG backdoor pilot.  Seriously, Ziva? why?😡😠🤬

I never thought Ziva was dead; the title was a dead giveaway.  I'm not going to bother watching this.

[enoughcats]

10 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I am glad that Emily had an opioid problem rather than being drugged because that is more realistic. 

But it wasn't just an opiod problem, it was a dropped out of going to classes, etc.  And Mr. retired FBI never saw a clue?

To the suggestions of the next NCIS franchise: please add

NCIS: Lewey Body Dementia epidemic where everybody sees dead bodies and only some of them are there.

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I really hope Ziva is not a hallucination. I had heard the actress had quit acting but maybe she feels better about coming back since Weatherly is gone. Just speculation, I never heard she had a problem with him but given what has come out I wouldn't be surprised.

Last year, it was reported that de Pablo and Weatherly were developing a cop drama together at CBS. I don't know if that's still ongoing but it doesn't sound like she had/has a problem with him specifically.

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

We already know for a fact that she's alive, so I don't think she was a hallucination.

I wouldn't go as far as say we know it for a fact but there are strong indications that she might be alive. (Not only because of "She" but also because they never truly shut the door on that possibility in Tony's final episode).

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

I wouldn't go as far as say we know it for a fact but there are strong indications that she might be alive. (Not only because of "She" but also because they never truly shut the door on that possibility in Tony's final episode).

she wrote Ellie a note saying not to tell anyone she's alive.  Seems like fact to me.

[eel21788]

12 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

  I understand Fornell being worried about his daughter, but pulling a gun on a doctor and yelling at him to bring every other doctor who is not on call is not the way to show you are worried. 

You'd be surprised by how many people see this crap on TV and think all they have to do is yell at people in the hospital and they'll be given whatever it is that they're demanding. 

[CheshireCat]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

she wrote Ellie a note saying not to tell anyone she's alive.  Seems like fact to me.

There is a chance that someone else wrote the note. But I do believe she is alive - I think it would be a bit too much if Gibbs first saw two dead people in one episode if they intend for him to remain sane. But this is TV and you just never know (unfortunately).

[kicotan]

9 hours ago, Camille said:

That moment reminded me of an All My Children episode years ago

The whole episode reeked of soap opera drama...I fully expect Ziva to be a clone.  (Reva Shane, “Guiding Light”, 1998)

Edited May 22, 2019 by kicotan

[secnarf]

8 hours ago, Ohmo said:

True, but Fornell was under a tremendous amount of stress.  I liked how Gibbs took the gun away and told Fornell what he was going to do (and not do).  It was "tough love" mixed with "I've got your back."

NO.

There is no "but". NOTHING excuses what Fornell did and it is not remotely realistic for that character. I feel like the delusional writers did it to show how much he loves his kid or something, but all that shows is that Fornell has lost his mind and should be arrested, which is what would and should happen if someone ever pulled a gun on a staff member in a hospital. Guess what Fornell, your idiot daughter overdosed and nothing about you is so special that you get to threaten the doctor with a gun and demand the entire hospital staff is called in.

How would you feel if while you were at work, someone who knew nothing about your job came and threatened you with a gun because they didn't like the results you were getting?

Working in a NICU, this is something I sometimes worry about with some of our less stable parents. How much I worry about any given family becoming violent has *nothing* to do with how sick the baby is and everything to do with how stable the parents are.

This scene touched a nerve with me. Many things about this episode struck me the wrong way, but this scene in particular was extremely difficult to watch - even moreso because I feel like we are supposed to empathize with Fornell, there were no repercussions for him and it was basically treated as an acceptable course of action for a father in his situation. He's someone we know and like and not some crazy guy off the street that we meet for an episode and then goes to prison.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, secnarf said:

NO.

There is no "but". NOTHING excuses what Fornell did and it is not remotely realistic for that character. I feel like the delusional writers did it to show how much he loves his kid or something, but all that shows is that Fornell has lost his mind and should be arrested, which is what would and should happen if someone ever pulled a gun on a staff member in a hospital. Guess what Fornell, your idiot daughter overdosed and nothing about you is so special that you get to threaten the doctor with a gun and demand the entire hospital staff is called in.

Exactly.  Yelling is understandable, although, of course, doctors shouldn't have to be yelled at when they are not God and can't save everyone.  Asking for a second opinion is perfectly fine.  Pulling a weapon out is not.

[Driad]

1 hour ago, eel21788 said:

You'd be surprised by how many people see this crap on TV and think all they have to do is yell at people in the hospital and they'll be given whatever it is that they're demanding. 

Also Fornell, as a law enforcement officer, has probably been on the receiving end of similar tirades from relatives of crime victims.  Sure, he was upset, but he should have known he was doing more harm than good.

[Donder]

I think Gibbs has gone section 8. Before Diane, Gibbs knew that Franksghost was a subconscious projection. Now with Diane, he wasn't totally sure. Now comes in Ziva......who supposedly left Ellie "the secret", yet amazingly comes to Gibbs after Diane leaves. Talks like him and Gibbs crazy look, yes Jethro, you are in danger....