S04.E16: Hey World!

[scarynikki12]

Quote

While on a mission to find Ray, Constantine and Nora discover Neron’s evil plan.

[scarynikki12]

I like that the episode opened with Sara swatting at Tinkerbell and Mick drinking with an ogre Fredrick. 

Zari was bullied?? NOT OK ZARI’S CLASSMATES. Little Zari is so cute. And saved Sara by getting Mitra dancing. Little Zari is as heroic as Adult Zari. 

NeuRay and Tabitha were angling to become the evil King and Queen of Earth? That’s a solid villain plan. Kudos you two. 

RAY WAS MAXIMUM RAY IN HELL! PLAYING GIANT JENGA! WITH VANDAL SAVAGE! I never thought I’d be happy to see him again but here we are. And they bonded! So Ray didn’t get tortured! 

Heh Kara, Oliver, and Barry said no to making the theme park ad because Nate ignored their request for help during Elseworlds. 

I shouldn’t be so amused by the Monitor not liking the show but that was great. And then he ate popcorn while watching the dragon. Monitor brings the humor. 

I loved watching Sara fighting Tabitha. She holds her own even against magic. 

Ray’s back! 

I’m sorry Zari is heartbroken but I cheered when NeuRay killed Nate (we could have had it all). 

Of course there’s a musical number courtesy of Biff and James Taylor. 

Looks like they’re fighting Voldemort next season. 

ZARI BETTER COME BACK SHOW I DO NOT ACCEPT HER BEING GONE! 

[Lady Calypso]

Oh.....well, that was all unexpected. And the season ended on a musical number! 

I did not expect Nate to actually die. I thought, for a minute, that we'd have Ghost Nate as a new magical creature. That actually would have been cool. Alas, they just sung him back to life. 

But now, Zari is...some random guy? That's not Zari's brother, is it? I guess they'll find Zari in her new life, and I wonder how different she will be. 

Ray is back and he ended up having a great time in hell. I totally blacked out anything Vandal Savage so I didn't recognize him until I came on here. I knew that Ray wouldn't go dark in hell but the reveal was great.

The Monitor makes his appearance....enjoying the show. 

Not a bad finale. It had some great moments, minimal Mona, and lots of funny moments. 

[Jediknight]

Wixty and Spike should hang out after Crisis, and become dragon-bros who protect their families.

Glad that Nate is still alive, but son of a bitch, we lost Zari.  Hoping she's at the Time Bureau or something.

Vandal Savage was a hoot.  As was Monitor.

I'm hoping that one of the coins that Astra took was for Adrian Chase.  I don't care if it's not on Arrow, I want Prometheus back.

[jay741982]

I've been saying it's obvious Nate Is Klemmers Favorite and it showed. We lose Zari so Nate can be brought back to life SMH

[ketose]

That's a change. Gender-swapping a comic book character from female to male.

I may or may not have been cry-laughing at the Nate resurrection scene.

Vandal Savage in Hell. It could have been worse. Plus, didn't Ray kind of steal the woman Savage was stalking?

Edited May 21, 2019 by ketose

[kirinan]

OMG! I swear to you, I was totally unspoiled for tonight. I had literally (yes, literally) just finished saying to my husband, "You know, I miss the days of 'Who are you to stand up to me, Vandal Savage, destroyer of empires?' 'Leonard Snart, robber of ATMs!' When I miss Vandal Savage, something's wrong." And not a minute later...VANDAL SAVAGE! That was actually kind of delightful.

This was a better episode than the last few, IMO. Loved the little dancing dragon (and the big one), and I did get a little lump in my throat with Nate and his dad up in the rafters. 

Oh, and I don't believe for a second Zari's gone. I'm guessing that's her brother?

Edited May 21, 2019 by kirinan

[scarynikki12]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's not Zari's brother, is it?

I believe so. 

[bettername2come]

All right, we all called Ray being so friendly that he makes friends in hell. Didn't call him befriending Vandal Savage.

I wanted more Monitor clues, but I loved him being bothered by the show in some way. The power of love and song saves the day! Take that Flash/Supergirl musical episode! Ray deserves to have his best friend saved by the power of song. And I might have cheered when we got our Nate/Zari kiss after he was brought back to life. There's no way Zari's gone. At least not forever. I expected her to reappear in some Monitor related way though. 

[Lantern7]

Why isn't this series given more episodes? I mean, there is a Crisis coming, but this is Legends of Tomorrow. This is the only Arrowverse show with a morality play dressed as a cheesy show. This is the only Arrowverse show that has never been afraid to go batshit crazy ever single episode. This is the only Arrowverse show where the friggin' Monitor watches and chomps down on popcorn! I mean . . . that is peak Legends.

Okay, so we may have lost Zari . . . or at least the version we've seen in the last two seasons. And I'm guessing her brother taking her place won't fill the void. But we got Ray back. Turns out he was playing Jenga with Vandal Savage the whole time. Because why the fuck not?!? And Nate's sacrifice is not only not in vain, but he gets Tinkerbell'd back to life. And we get the reunion of the Time Bros.

I know that there's been criticism about Mona, the "condition" inflicted on her, and Gary . . . just Gary. But I still love this show. Have you ever wanted Sara tarted up as Supergirl, with Nate and Gary as Green Arrow and Flash, respectively? Of course not . . . but you get it, and it is funny as hell. So is the thought of the "Trinity" giving the Legends a hard pass because the team didn't show for "Elseworlds."

"HeyWorld" actually worked. And it saved Zari's family. Okay, the whole idea that Biff Heywood dreamed it up in the first place was dumb as hell, but the execution was stellar.

Oh, and Astra (Astrid?) is going to bring back the worst of the worst to plague the team . . . which would be great if we didn't have to fucking wait for it for a few more months. Anyone else get a sinking feeling Malcolm Merlyn might return? I mean, Thrawne and Damien have been used too often, and John Barrowman is a geek treasure.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Lantern7

[Oreo2234]

I'm sad Zari is gone from the Legends. I hope they at least regain their memories of her eventually. 

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I believe so. 

Ah, so instead of Zari joining the Legends, her brother does? I could have gotten behind that if they set it up better.

Also, I know it wouldn't have worked, but if they had that moment when Zari disappeared and her brother pop in after Nate kissed her but had him reacting like they were a couple, I wouldn't have complained. I mean, how are they going to explain the stuff that Nate/Zari did now with Nate/Guy Zari? That it was just some bromantic moments? Again, I would have chuckled. 

I am sad that we wasted the entire second half of this season with Zari. Now she'll be a completely different person who's probably cheery and un-Zari and I'm not going to love it if she does show back up (I assume she will).

[shantown]

I’m sorry, we lose Zari AND are still stuck with Mona?!?! I can’t even appreciate anything good about this episode because that is all I’m gonna be stuck thinking about for the next 7+ months. 

[UNOSEZ]

Zari is gone.. But Tala Ashe will be back in some way I just read on tvline... So I guess like a Charlie situation... That was her brother dunno if his character will play a role next season

[ketose]

18 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

"HeyWorld" actually worked. And it saved Zari's family. Okay, the whole idea that Biff Heywood dreamed it up in the first place was dumb as hell, but the execution was stellar.

Actually, Nate dreamed it up. Biff just misappropriated government funds to build it.

[srpturtle80]

I laughed soooooo hard when Vandal Savage appeared. That was brilliant. 

Loved Nora finally getting to lay one on Ray and then smacking him after. I love those two. 

I may or may not have cried while the singing was happening. I love me some James Taylor. I am one of the few who doesn’t hate Nate so I didn’t want to see him go. 

I thought I read this week that this show isn’t coming back until mid season (😩😭) but that they are part of Crisis (as evidenced by Monitor’s appearance). How’s that going to work? 

Still my favorite show of the Arrowverse. I hate when the season ends.

Edited May 21, 2019 by srpturtle80

[quarks]

Ray ends up playing board games with one of the all time worst Arrowverse Big Bads, the little dragon ends up dancing instead of burning down the entire theme park, and Nate is brought back to life by a James Taylor group sing.

And Kara, Oliver, and Barry all turn out to be petty, petty people who refuse to help out in a world crisis because Team Legends gave the crossover a hard pass. (I'm surprised at you, Kara. Oliver and Barry, not so much.) Turning Gary - Gary - into Oliver Queen.

This show.

#BringZariBack2019

[Sakura12]

Maybe I'm still thinking about the GoT ending that I just could not get into this finale. I don't mind when Legends goes a little over the line to the wacky, but this season they went too far over that I couldn't enjoy it. the sing-a-long was dumb, Nate should've stayed dead so we at least had some stakes this season because their really wasn't any. 

Seeing Vandal Savage was a such a weird thing, I will say at least it wasn't Damian Darhk, he outwore his welcome. I suppose that's why they kept making Season 1 references. We even got a Kendra mention sort of. 

I don't count losing Zari has a stake since they mess with history all time with no consequences until they want one. I do hope next season we do some changes from Zari not being there, hopefully her brother didn't just fill the Zari parts and is a different character. 

I'm glad to read that they will be more grounded next season, hopefully with some more character development for the original Legends and not all the shiny new ones. I'm including Ava in that. If they are going to keep Avalance together I want Sara's views on the relationship not just Ava's. I am interested in seeing who Zari became when her family lived. 

Weren't we supposed to meet the Time Guardians or something?

Edited May 21, 2019 by Sakura12

[scarynikki12]

10 minutes ago, quarks said:

And Kara, Oliver, and Barry all turn out to be petty, petty people who refuse to help out in a world crisis because Team Legends gave the crossover a hard pass. (I'm surprised at you, Kara. Oliver and Barry, not so much.)

I like to think they hate Nate as much as I do. Also, I suspect Sara didn't actually speak to Oliver, who would help her, but left a message with Dinah who pretended to pass it along and then just refused on his behalf.

[ketose]

15 minutes ago, quarks said:

Ray ends up playing board games with one of the all time worst Arrowverse Big Bads, the little dragon ends up dancing instead of burning down the entire theme park, and Nate is brought back to life by a James Taylor group sing.

And Kara, Oliver, and Barry all turn out to be petty, petty people who refuse to help out in a world crisis because Team Legends gave the crossover a hard pass. (I'm surprised at you, Kara. Oliver and Barry, not so much.) Turning Gary - Gary - into Oliver Queen.

This show.

#BringZariBack2019

Gary was The Flash. Nate was Green Arrow.

I think the hard pass was appropriate, given that Kara really doesn't know the Legends and she almost died. Oliver had a date with the Monitor and Barry was trying to stop a villain that the Legends already had to fight.

Since "Zari" will be back in some form next season, I assume she'll be fully on the team in Season 6. It sounds like S5 will be a Vandal Savage of the week getting dropped off in time and causing trouble.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Can we have Nate's Dad Biff show up for a couple of episodes every season?  He's so great.

Echoing the love about Ray being so Ray he makes friends in Hell. With Savage, no less.

A good episode, and I'm looking forward to next season.

[BaggythePanther]

I really enjoyed this finale. It’s my favorite episode of this half season. When they revealed that Ray was playing Jenga with Vandal Savage I started laughing so hard I had to pause the video. Good callback.

I’m convinced that the writers quickly pushed Zari and Nate into a relationship just to add additional drama to his death/her disappearance. Though I would I forgive all the terrible writing if it turns out that Behrad and Nate are dating. I’m surprised so many people missed that Nate called him Behrad, and he was wearing the air totem on his wrist. 

I have so many questions, number one being how are we getting Zari back when it seems like the season 5 premiere will be the COIE episode? I’m also unhappy that they took a pretty cool character and decided to give her a new personality.

I don’t hate Nate so I didn’t want him to die. I enjoyed his conversation with Biff. I thought that was his best storyline this season. And while HeyWorld sounded like a terrible idea they somehow made it work. I guess that’s this show in a nutshell.

Ray/Nate is one of my favorite relationships on the show and one of the strongest, to the point where they basically died for each other. Maybe one day we’ll have a strong female friendship.

I loved Nora noting that the Legends held hands and stood in a circle last year. I hope she’s not stuck in that dress forever.

 Is Supergirl well known on Earth-1? She only shows up once a year during a crisis.

[tennisgurl]

You gotta love a show that looks at all these super angsty shows lately where everything sucks for the good guys and they die pointless deaths and suffer endlessly, and says "yeah, but what if instead, we had the power of music and love literally bring someone back to life?!?" Its so cheesy, but I loved it. 

I liked this ending for the season, it brought things better quite well, and I loved the return of Hank and his James Taylor love, and how all the creatures past came back to help out. I love that Ray spent his time in Hell doing the most Ray thing ever, bonding with Vandall freaking Savage of all people, and turning torture into Jenga and talking out your problems! Oh Ray, you sweet cinnamon bun of a person. And he and Nora finally get together for real! Its going to be hilarious when everyone else meets grown up Nora during Crisis, when they last saw her she was a little girl whos dad almost killed the world. 

John killing Nate (with his permission) was a classic Constantine move, and while he has certainly come a long way, he still hasn't fully given up his morally ambiguous ways. Even if it looks like next season will basically be Brimstone, I still hope that Astra can be saved. I do like the actress though, she seems to be having a blast playing evil. 

Zari better be back, her being gone and no one remembering her is just depressing, has every other show in the Arrowverse not broken my heart enough?! I am guessing that guy in Zaris brother? So where is Zari? I hope that we can somehow get "our" Zari back, as selfish as that be, considering our Zari is a damaged person who went through all kinds of stuff, while a future Zari might be a happy perky type who had an awesome, non totalitarian life. 

The Monitor just looking annoyed, and then amused (complete with popcorn!) was the perfect way to bring the Legends into the Crisis. The guy is really rethinking his whole "wandering about the multiverse creeping on people" deal. 

They have so many freaking people on the team now, they can practically field a whole football team!

[MadyGirl1987]

Loved that finale! Thought it wrapped up the season nicely. Glad Nate and his father got a moment together.

Only this show can have the heroes save the day with the power of music and love and make it work.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But now, Zari is...some random guy? That's not Zari's brother, is it? I guess they'll find Zari in her new life, and I wonder how different she will be.

Gideon told Zari that the future was changing with HeyWorld and there was no anti-meta law passed. (Apparently Zari had been constantly running programs as they were changing the timeline.) With no anti-meta law, Zari's parents didn't die, neither did her brother and so he had the powers of the necklace and she had never joined the Legends. That is why Sara told her to stay on board, so that she would be in a time-free zone because otherwise she would have no memory of the Legends. She didn't, she rushed to save Nate and so when time change, she didn't experience all that stuff and no one remembered her.

You can see the red stone set in a bracelet on his arm when he is hugging Nate.

I hate it. Zari was one of my favourite characters.  I would gladly have traded Nate for Zari.  I would have loved to get rid of Mona to keep Zari. (whispers, I would have traded Ava and Gary for her too.)  I wouldn't have traded Sara, Ray or Rory, but anyone else, yeah.

Also, it's very dangerous to be Nate's girlfriend because you don't survive the season in your current form.

I love The Monitor just eating popcorn and watching the show. I also liked Sara saying that Oliver, Barry and Kara said "hard pass" to making the commercial, and Nate replying they should have done a crossover, reprising earlier this season when the Legends said "hard pass' on doing the crossover.

[Jediknight]

2 hours ago, ketose said:

I think the hard pass was appropriate, given that Kara really doesn't know the Legends and she almost died. Oliver had a date with the Monitor and Barry was trying to stop a villain that the Legends already had to fight.

Yeah, they all had their own pressing issues to handle first.

Forgot to mention this, but I'm not a big fan of that being the way they wrap up the ARGUS and Zari's future plot.  That was it, that's how they wrapped it up?  Granted, Arrow dropped the whole something is rotten in the state of ARGUS, and Lyla doesn't even trust ARGUS plot.  So not that surprising that it's a quick wrap-up.

[BaggythePanther]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I would gladly have traded Nate for Zari. 

A revamped Nate sounds like a fun idea. But nope, his girlfriend is the one that always has to change. 

Are we just supposed to assume that Behrad did everything the same way Zari did, except for dating Nate? (Though I’d love it if the writers had the balls to have Nate date Behrad only to realize, whoops, wrong sibling) There will have to be other changes to the timeline.

[Featherhat]

The Monitor eating popcorn sounds about right. Got to make lemonade out of his quest right? Not surprising that COIE will be the premiere given the mid season schedule and it drives them an excuse to jiggle more things.

but seriously we better have awesome Zari back right away as a regular. Unless TA wanted out they'd be insane not to. It still frustrates me that they went to the trouble of keeping Maisie for Charlie to do FA whilst there was tons of Mona. Not to mention swapping a popular female character for her brother.

[Proteus]

Well, that was disappointing. Sigh. I can't believe Zaris whole story now revolves around Nate.

Maybe I'll feel better about this in a couple of days. I don't know.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Proteus

[Maverick]

 Zari's brother being a Legend makes perfect sense.  They still would have needed the Wind totem to stop Mallus and it was held by him not Zari. 

 Best part of the episode was The Monitor shaking his head. Like, "the people are total fuck ups.  No way I'm inviting them to save the multiverse.  Pass the popcorn."

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not the best season finale. Next year it looks like not only is Mona still going to be around, but now we have Zari's brother instead of Zari. The only saving grace being no more Nate/Zari.

Best parts to me were Ray playing giant jenga with Vandal Savage and the triumvirate of Barry/Kara/Oliver saying "Hard Pass" when they were called to assist and Nate's little "oh the cross over", it was a good call back to the best episode of the season.

[Writing Wrongs]

God, this show is stupid. Depending on the crossover, I think I may be out for next season

[tarotx]

Legends definitely should have a different fan base than it is marketed too. It's corny and GAY in wonderful ways but it is a way different show now. Vandal Savage is proof. I'm still laughing. I read PK's interview about Ray bonding with someone unexpected but Savage did not enter my mind. But he and Ray both lost Kendra to her fated love.

I enjoyed most of 4a and I loved this 4b finale but the rest dragged. It is time to reground this show in it's history foundation and it's core cast. 

I do think the season starting out at Woodstock and ending singing love to save Nate really brought the theme of the season together. A lot of 4b was boring because I don't care about Mona and I didn't need to see Sara stuck in Ava centric love interest needs. And Nate&Zari was a big no.

It will be interesting to see how Zari is changed. 

[cambridgeguy]

The actors played it as best they could but the Nate/Zari relationship never made sense - somehow they jumped from buddies who barely interacted earlier this season to true love over a few episodes?  I wish they'd realize that Nate works well when he's bro-ing it up with Ray or geeking out about stuff, not when he's romancing a lady.  The show already has Sara/Ava and Ray/Nora for that stuff and they certainly don't have a problem with keeping other characters (Mick, Charlie) single.

It's also amazing how much this show has changed.  S1 Vandal Savage was annoying and dull but he was a hoot here.  Maybe they'll figure out a way to redeem the Hawks next season.

[johntfs]

21 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

 Is Supergirl well known on Earth-1? She only shows up once a year during a crisis. 

She showed up last year to fight interdimensional Nazis and the year before to battle an alien invasion.  Supergirl doesn't show up often but she makes something of an impression when she does put in an appearance.

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It's also amazing how much this show has changed.  S1 Vandal Savage was annoying and dull but he was a hoot here.  Maybe they'll figure out a way to redeem the Hawks next season.

Casper Crump is apparently a pretty fun, tongue-in-cheek guy.  Remember that in Season One Legends kind of started out a more serious, by-the-numbers supers show.  It was only in Season Two that the runners rebooted a bit and our shows became the wacky, fun, screw-things-up-for-the-better crazy fest we know and love today.

Meanwhile, we've had little Ray, little Zari, little Mick and little Nora on this show.  At some point next season, I kind of need a Legends Junior episode. 

Meanwhile again, Tala Ashe is an excellent, highly charismatic actress.  So, whatever version of Zari comes back (and even if she comes back as a completely different character like Maise did) Tala will do a really good job.  As for "our" Zari, she "died" doing what she desperately wanted to do - saving the people she loved.

Edited May 22, 2019 by johntfs

[darkestboy]

Not my favourite finale but crossover shout out, sing songs and that amusement park did all add to the sublime silliness we've grown to be accustomed to with this show, so there's that.

Neron and Tabitha did seem a little easily defeated but they were fun baddies to watch all season long.

Trading Zari for Behrad, I'm not overly keen on even though I'm curious to see the latter working with the Legends.

Astra getting all those evil souls to play around with seems to be a good way of keeping Constantine around for the next season, so I'm happy with that.

Other than that, it's a bit of a wait for Season 5 but I'm sure it'll be worth it, 7/10

[Sakura12]

Did they limit Nora's powers by making her the Fairy Godmother and need Gary to do anything? 

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Meanwhile, we've had little Ray, little Zari, little Mick and little Nora on this show.  At some point next season, I kind of need a Legends Junior episode 

We had little Sara and Ava too. 

[TV Anonymous]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

She showed up last year to fight interdimensional Nazis and the year before to battle an alien invasion.  Supergirl doesn't show up often but she makes something of an impression when she does put in an appearance.

That is meta, I think. We know Arrowverse and we know Supergirl, Arrow and The Flash. But Supergirl only visits Earth-1 only once a year. For people in 2019 Earth-1 (who do not watch CW), I would wager that Black Canary (whichever one she is), Vibe, Kid Flash, Elongated Man, are more well-known than Supergirl.

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

As for "our" Zari, she "died" doing what she desperately wanted to do - saving the people she loved.

Those last few minutes frustrated me. Nate was dead before he hit the ground, so there was no reason for Zari to leave the ship just to cry over his body. I can hand wave Zari’s response as an emotional reaction, but at that point there was nothing she could do. It wasn’t until a few moments later when Mick began singing they realized they could bring him back.

 I’m probably being more nitpicky about this because I’m not a fan of Nate/Zari so their reunion didn’t sway me. And now the Zari we know and love is gone forever. But Nate is ok and he’s even got a new time bro.

[shantown]

11 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’m convinced that the writers quickly pushed Zari and Nate into a relationship just to add additional drama to his death/her disappearance. 

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The actors played it as best they could but the Nate/Zari relationship never made sense - somehow they jumped from buddies who barely interacted earlier this season to true love over a few episodes?

This was my thought - Nate dying wasn't dramatic/emotional enough on it's own, they needed some sort of "lost love" aspect to it and so quickly rushed a romance. It really did a disservice to both Zari and Nate as characters. I think it would have been a lot more of a gut punch to get more of a reaction from others on the team - Constantine, who made that agreement to get Nate killed to save someone else. Sara, who was so adamant about not losing anyone on the team during this mission. Ray, his bro and the realization that they had sacrificed their lives for each other. 

I know Legends is the more funny/wacky show and not so much the "high stakes emotional wreckage" of the other Arrowverse shows, but I think this "death" could have been done better, and then still get the funny "singing James Taylor resurrects people" bit in there too.

[Lugal]

This had its good points and bad points.

The Good:

- Ray playing jenga in Hell with Vandal Savage.  They could do a whole episode around that.

- Constantine and Nora dealing with Astra, I like the actress and look forward to seeing what she does next year.

- the Legends actually suited up.

- the Supergirl, Green Arrow, Flash Promo (which they unfortunately spoiled in the promo months ago) Special points to Caity Lotz's perky Kara voice.

- Neron and Tabitha chewing the scenery.

- Kid Zari and her dancing dragon.

The Bad:

- We lost Zari (or we'll bring her back totally changed next season), after watching her for two years.  And we lost her in a stupid way because she had to cry over Nate's body, for a romance that came out of nowhere.

- Zari's dystopian future was wrapped up as an afterthought.

- Mona's still around.

- All the historical baddies released from Hell will ensure the Time Bureau's probably around next season.

- the Legends' stage show was making the Ember Island Players look good.

- Had "Sweet Baby James" in my head all evening.

So the back half of the season was kind of a disappointing mixed bag.  After Beebo worked last year I think they thought they were bulletproof, and it didn't work out this time.  I'm also afraid they're overstuffing the cast.  I love Constantine and Nora, but Mona and Gary need to have their screen time reduced.  Ava needs to go back to being Sara's girlfriend, as opposed to having Sara as Ava's girlfriend.  We'll see what next year brings.

I'm not sure about how they're going to play it with all the historical villains released from Hell, after PK's interview where he says: "Maybe they're started to drink their own Kool-Aid and feel that Genghis Khan was just misunderstood, because whatever he did, he didn't get a pony for his birthday."  Just a counterpoint, Genghis Khan is still a national hero in Mongolia, and another counterpoint, George Washington is known as "Town Destroyer" to some Indian Nations.  Not every historical villain is as clearcut as Hitler.

11 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Is Supergirl well known on Earth-1? She only shows up once a year during a crisis.

I also expect the COIE crossover to merge Supergirl's Earth with the main Arrowverse.  This is total speculation on my part but they've gotten nebulous/lazy as to how Supergirl fits in.

[TV Anonymous]

1 minute ago, Lugal said:

I also expect the COIE crossover to merge Supergirl's Earth with the main Arrowverse.  This is total speculation on my part but they've gotten nebulous/lazy as to how Supergirl fits in.

I suppose because Supergirl started on CBS they could not establish from the beginning that it was part of Arrowverse. As well, Supergirl dealt mostly with aliens, not meta-humans. Therefore the convoluted story of having it in separate universe with Arrow and The Flash,

[thuganomics85]

Finally got a chance to catch this!

All in all, a pretty fun season finale, with the exception of one "event" that I will no doubt complain about in a bit.  But considering how the last half of this season was kind of underwhelming, I'm happy it stuck the landing more or less.

Holy crap, it's Vandal Savage!  Bonding with Ray in Hell because even he can't resist is charms and good nature!  Loved it!  He was such a dud in S1, but he worked perfectly here.  It helped that Casper Crump seemed way better at being more goofy and earnest compared to his attempts at being menacing.  Maybe he just wasn't the right fit for the show at the time or the show just didn't quite realize his strengths at the time since they were still in the feeling out process.  Either way, I'd actually wouldn't mind seeing this version of Vandal again.

So, Heywood actually ends up being a part of the endgame.  And it all ends with them singing James Taylor to help save Nate's life.  Of course it does!  Classic Legends of Tomorrow!

I know they have their own issues to deal with, but Oliver, Barry, and Kara really are the no fun trio.  It's time-travel, you guys!  They can just put you back where they left you!  Maybe they just should have just looked elsewhere.  Ralph probably would have done it.  Or maybe Brainy or Nia!

Tabitha's exit was surprising, but I love that Jane Freaking Carr got to participate in TWO fight scenes.

Legends has a lot going for it, but it clearly doesn't have the CGI dragon budget that Game of Thrones has/had.

Of course, Mick stole the book back.  His erotic sci-fi franchise won't write itself!

Glad that they brought up how Charlie was the one that made the Legends think differently about monsters and mythical creatures.  I hope she has more to do next season.

When Nora started chewing Ray out for the whole "giving up your soul" thing, I couldn't help but wonder if Courtney Ford and Brandon Routh's spats ever are kind of like that in real life.  They really are an adorable pair.

So, next season seems to be about Astra unleashing various historical tyrants and dictators into the world.  Since we only saw half of the coins, I imagine there will be some surprises and maybe a few familiar faces.  They've already name-dropped Damien Dahrk a few episodes ago, so that could be a possibility.  I'm also guessing this is a way for Constantine to still be needed going forward.

But there is that big blemish and that is Zari's fate.  Now, I really don't believe TPTB are idiots and would ever let Tala Ashe go unless it was her call, so I'm guessing she'll be back in some form.  But I am not happy that the Zari we've known and seen grow before our eyes is apparently gone.  All of that development and moments just gone in a flash.  I know that is what happen with Amaya more or less, but it at least felt like a fitting end for her and her arc.  But Zari losing what made her who she is just because of her feelings for Nate?  Yeah, not feeling it.  I'll give it a chance and I'm sure Tala Ashe will deliver whatever she is given, but I hope "Real" Zari isn't gone for good.

All in all, this is still easily my favorite out of the D.C. shows and I'm looking forward to its return!  But I do hope they avoid the mistakes they made during this last half like the overuse of Mona and the failed attempt with the Nate/Zari romance.

[Quark]

I haven't liked the last few episodes, but the finale was a hoot and a half.

I hope Zari isn't gone for good. The character is great and the actress is excellent too. I can't say I cared particularly if Nate was actually going to die.

Looking forward to next season.

[BkWurm1]

21 hours ago, quarks said:

Ray ends up playing board games with one of the all time worst Arrowverse Big Bads, the little dragon ends up dancing instead of burning down the entire theme park, and Nate is brought back to life by a James Taylor group sing.

And Kara, Oliver, and Barry all turn out to be petty, petty people who refuse to help out in a world crisis because Team Legends gave the crossover a hard pass. (I'm surprised at you, Kara. Oliver and Barry, not so much.) Turning Gary - Gary - into Oliver Queen.

This show.

#BringZariBack2019

21 hours ago, ketose said:

Gary was The Flash. Nate was Green Arrow.

I think the hard pass was appropriate, given that Kara really doesn't know the Legends and she almost died. Oliver had a date with the Monitor and Barry was trying to stop a villain that the Legends already had to fight.

I'll give Supergirl a pass, she was clearly busy.  And Oliver would have only just recently retired and gone into hiding and wouldn't have wanted to leave his pregnant wife's side when they had bad guys looking to kill them but Barry got done with his big bad last week.  Clearly he's just holding a grudge.    

[tennisgurl]

This half of the season did a whole lot right, but a few very notable things wrong. One was the Nate/Zari thing, especially with it leading to Zari getting wiped from the show. I like Nate, and I like Zari, and I even enjoyed their friendship a lot, especially last season. Their out of nowhere romance though was so painfully forced and random, it seemed to be either the show feeling like they needed a Will They or Wont They romance (even though they already had Nora and Ray) or, more likely, they changed what they wanted to do with Nate this season and needed something else for him to do and a reason to get him back on the Waverider, so they decided to stick him with Zari. They had a few nice moments, but not enough to justify their screen time, and both characters being stuck with so much contrived romantic tropes instead of the more interesting aspects of their personalities. 

The other big issue was Mona, and the ridiculous amount of time we ended up spending on her, and just how freaking annoying she became. I liked her just fine as a minor comic relief character, and I think the actress is fine, but when they started trying to give her dramatic storylines and having her join the Legends and have her dumb choices messing things up for other people, it just got to be too much. In general, the show has WAY too many cast members now, they really need to consider trimming things up. And Mona really brings nothing to the table that no one else does, so if they make her a supporting reoccurring character who only shows up every once in awhile as support, then I can maybe grow to like her again. If she would just stop being super immature, annoying, whinny...

[BkWurm1]

There were parts of this that I really loved.  Nora and Ray just work so well as a couple.  Every scene they have is fun.  And Nora on her own is a delight.  Rory got to once again accidently help save the world by being himself aka stealing back the book a long time ago so he could continue his "romance".  I love that kind of detail, something that breaks the rules but meant they had what they needed because of course he snuck on his own and got it back, lol.  

I wasn't surprised that Ray would have charmed his torturer but to get Vandal Savage and him playing Jenga?  I was dying with laughter.  First of course it got really deep, lol.  Who knew that VS just needed a therapist?  Sigh.  Also loved Nora's brief flair of jealousy, "What girl?" lol

So with one scene I know am fond of Vandal Savage.  I never thought I'd say that.  

Mona was used right in this episode.  I never hated her like many others but I would agree that they over did her losing control of her emotions too many times.  I think it was supposed to be because of her other wolf side but it was just awkward that last time.  But now that her into is established, i have faith they will continue to use her better.  

Gary I never got tired of even if i was kind of peeved with him the last couple weeks.

I am fascinated by how Constantine remained true to his character and yet IMO fits this show wonderfully.  He comes back from hell and the Legends big plan is Hey World.  It's not a surprise that he worked out his plan B and not even a surprise that once it happened Sara didn't give him a hard time about it even if it's the last thing she wanted.  I like how they balance the team aspect and yet still give him his independence. 

I love that half the big bad was the Fairy Godmother.  And yeah, her fight scene with Sara looked great!

I gave up hating Nate a season or so ago but if he'd stayed dead, I wouldn't have been too sad, except for his poor mom, and Ray of course.  But I was surprisingly moved when it was him and his dad sitting up in the rafters.  So I found myself rooting for him to survive.  

I HATE that Zari winked out of existence but at the same time she made her dearest wish come true and found a way to undo her awful past so she doesn't have a totally unhappy ending. And by leaving the temporal zone, she got to live it. (And she's no longer stuck dating Nate).  That said, I REALLY want another Earth version of Zari, one that did have a dystopian life to show up so that we get the same personality even if we have to start relationships over.  I loved our Zari.  

If Zari being gone is a temp thing, then I like the cliffhanger and her brother appearing.  If not, then I will mope. But I'll assume the best for now.  

They really could get her back during a COIE crossover.  It even makes logical sense.  So I'll stay optimistic.  

Still, I'm really ready for Nate to be more of a supporting player this next season even if I have come to love he and Ray's time bro's thing.  (I wonder if Zari's brother is in on that?)  Really enjoyed BR getting dual roles this season at the end.  I had no trouble seeing them as different people.  

Not close to a Beebo ending but it still had some very solid moments and I'm already eager for next season.   

[jay741982]

22 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

I laughed soooooo hard when Vandal Savage appeared. That was brilliant. 

Loved Nora finally getting to lay one on Ray and then smacking him after. I love those two. 

I may or may not have cried while the singing was happening. I love me some James Taylor. I am one of the few who doesn’t hate Nate so I didn’t want to see him go. 

I thought I read this week that this show isn’t coming back until mid season (😩😭) but that they are part of Crisis (as evidenced by Monitor’s appearance). How’s that going to work? 

Still my favorite show of the Arrowverse. I hate when the season ends.

Easy. They appear during the crossover and the Crossover will be 5 episodes 3 in December and the last two in January with the Legends episode likely being one of the last two episodes 

[Alice Mudgarden]

Bringing Vandal Savage back to play Giant Jenga in hell with Ray's soul is the amazingness of this show in a nutshell.