S07.E22: Reunion Part 1

[Shellbell59]

7 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Lala and James are really similar. They both have a volatile temper that leads to them hitting below the belt. They both can apologize for something and as soon as they feel threatened or that their apologies aren’t enough, they immediately revert back to their anger and say/do the very same things they had just given an apology for. The only reason why Lala seems more sincere is because she realized that to secure her spot, she needed to be in the good graces of the women and James became a liability so she dropped him like a bad habit and started lavishing the women with Randall’s money in order to buy their forgiveness. Whatever integrity they think they have, it’s not greater than their superficiality.

If Randall has a career that he has to protect that prevents him from even showing his face in the background on this show, then why doesn’t that apply to his other reality TV show appearances? Lala thinks that her life and her experiences are more important than theirs and it was very evident in the way she defended her choices at the expense of putting down the others.

I have never owned or partially invested in a business or a restaurant. If I did, I would certainly want documentation of my investment but I also realize that businesses can take at least a year to break even and despite no previous experience, I feel I would be smart enough to have a sit down with my business partners to discuss how expenses and pay-outs would be managed. I’d imagine that if you’re taking a salary and then taking any additional monies at the year-end, it will have implications on how I manage my taxes as well. I get the Tom’s being frustrated with not having their questions answered or not feeling they can approach LVP, but I also question how much work and research they’ve put into the ‘business’ aspect of this opportunity and at least some of their frustration and blowback has to do with not coming prepared and relying on other people to figure it out for them.

Jax called Raquel useless and called her a bitch….didn’t hear anyone speak up and say that wasn’t right. But don’t you dare call Katie ‘fat’ or Brittany a ‘hillbilly’. Jax kept making remarks and when James bit back, Jax would defer to Andy ‘look what he’s saying’…nobody but Sandoval called out the fact that Jax instigated everything and then got pissed when James didn’t just sit there and take it.

When Brittany said she’s proud to be a hillbilly because at least she’s not an asshole like him, I so badly wanted James to respond ‘who are you to talk when you’re marrying the biggest asshole, liar, cheat and thief sitting on this stage’. James is an absolute fuck up, but he’s surrounded by a group of people who are so disillusioned with themselves that they think they’re THAT much better.

THIS...

totally agree DJ J is an f up...but the rest of them? What’s their excuse? 

THEY ARE ALL STILL LIVING THEIR “Glory Days” as the cliquish high schoolers they truly are...

what a rut....and they ALL should thank their lucky “stars” LVP pitched the SUR restaurant employees as a reality show....no joke...

I don’t CARE if LVP is manipulative and creating her own “monarchy” in the US!!! Lol...

.they are all SOOOO effing lucky...Otherwise where would they be now?

James can grow up/mature out of this horrible behavior (with therapy regarding family triggers) he’s young and misguided.

but the rest of them? Jax and others are approaching the younger end of ‘middle age’!

seriously...in 10 years Kristen will be 45 (when I went into peri-menopause)...James will be mid 30s....

crazy how Jax..when called out on age..(what were you doing at that age?)

Jax said...”yeah....you can say that all day long”...(paraphrasing)....

it’s such a shame James lacks emotional intelligence to such a degree that he cannot think before he speaks...jus like another  post mentioned...if he just could have pressed Jax creating fake Raquel account....or followed up on age...”what were you doing nearly 20 yrs ago Jax?”

Jame will hopefully come into that maturity...through much needed counseling.

[breezy424]

I think the problem with Raquel's voice is that she's very nervous.  There's a shakyness (yeah, that's not a real word but it describes it) when she's in an uncomfortable position.  She could also be a person who is intelligent (does well in school) but not smart.  There's a difference between intelligence and being smart.  I've known many intelligent people who do fantastic in school but have no common sense.  

The Toms' were idiots with signing the restaurant deal with LVP.  LVP used them to promote a restaurant based upon VPR and the Toms'.  She used them.  And she continues to dismiss them by saying they'll talk at the end of the year.  It doesn't matter how small the investment they made was (to her but big for them), they should be able to look at the books.  It makes it seem like she's hiding something.  I wonder who is on the payroll for instance?  All around shady.

Yeah, all of them got their start on the show.  However, the show's success comes from them.  Not LVP.  And the success of the show has largely affected the success of Kenny and LVP's restaurants.  She may have started 34 restaurants but she only had one when RHBH started (correct me if I'm wrong) and has been trying to sell Villa Blanca for years. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I feel like there's a race between which will happen first, either Raquel's eyebrows become a unibrow, her hairline makes it down to her eyebrows, or her lips reach her nose.

Edited May 8, 2019 by MVFrostsMyPie

[pfk505]

38 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think the problem with Raquel's voice is that she's very nervous.  There's a shakyness (yeah, that's not a real word but it describes it) when she's in an uncomfortable position.  She could also be a person who is intelligent (does well in school) but not smart.  There's a difference between intelligence and being smart.  I've known many intelligent people who do fantastic in school but have no common sense.  

The Toms' were idiots with signing the restaurant deal with LVP.  LVP used them to promote a restaurant based upon VPR and the Toms'.  She used them.  And she continues to dismiss them by saying they'll talk at the end of the year.  It doesn't matter how small the investment they made was (to her but big for them), they should be able to look at the books.  It makes it seem like she's hiding something.  I wonder who is on the payroll for instance?  All around shady.

Yeah, all of them got their start on the show.  However, the show's success comes from them.  Not LVP.  And the success of the show has largely affected the success of Kenny and LVP's restaurants.  She may have started 34 restaurants but she only had one when RHBH started (correct me if I'm wrong) and has been trying to sell Villa Blanca for years. 

Agree with all of this. Raquel is quite clearly just nervous and she has gone on multiple times about her "social anxiety" (I wouldn't call this that, exactly, more like performance anxiety). I find her so inoffensive, one moment that made me laugh was when Stassi looked at her point blank and said "I don't even know her" .. none of them have made the slightest effort and fair enough, but the spitting hate directed towards her seemed so personal and I honestly don't get it.

James was on FIRE and absolutely destroyed every single one of them. It was glorious. Count me in for team James. He is hateable in the extreme but compared to Jax, Lala, Britney et al. he is terrific. Someone upthread pointed out James' value to the show comes with the conflict he brings, and that his insults are often hilarious and nailed on. I couldn't agree with that more. He knows EXACTLY which buttons to push and for a show like this that is gold, Jerry. Looking forward to more shoehorning in of James and Racquel next year. He's the only thing keeping the show going.

Edited May 8, 2019 by pfk505

[smores]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:25 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I think Lala did something with her lips. They grew.

She totally has fillers.  Weirdly, the left side seems slightly larger than the right and I can't stop staring at it.  Hopefully now I won't be the only one who sees it.  You're welcome.  

15 hours ago, Jel said:

The reason business owners (with investors) want to keep at least 51% is so they have control and get to make the decisions.

I don't understand what the Toms and Ariana aren't getting about this. They don't have control, they never had control, they won't have control. Not a single thing the Toms want will ever happen without the majority stakeholders agreeing. What part of 5% each are they not comprehending?

Lisa offered to give them their money back. They should take her up on it and then start their own bar. Seriously. They should do that. 

Tom and Ariana also aren't comprehending that LVP pretty much came to the table with the entire project.  They had all of the funding, they had the space, they had the contacts, the contractors, the designers, etc.  

LVP DID try to include the guys, but they didn't successfully deliver on any of the aspects that they needed to.  They showed up to meetings late, they turned their drink list in well past the time they were told that it was supposed to be in (and after the food list had to be made), which is why Pandora got involved in the project.  They had evidently made such a poor impression on the interior designer that HE had requested that they not be present at the installation.  

It never occurred to either of the Toms to try to learn the business management side of things during the course of the build.  They spent "months and months" working on the cocktail list, but didn't really bother to learn what might make the most sense as far as the bar layout.  They also didn't bother to consider cost of ingredients, or multi-use ingredients, etc.  The consultant that LVP brought in was there to help tweak things and one of the things she specifically mentioned was the ability to use ingredients in multiple drinks and not having a bunch of super expensive ingredients that are only used in one drink.  Sandoval in particular likes to make drinks that take 35 ingredients and then use one rare machine in a super unique glass and take 46 minutes per drink and none of that is practical for what would ideally be a busy nightspot.  

The guys spent more time figuring out how they were going to arrive at the opening than they did the actual "business" end of things.  They wanted to pick the uniforms, but again, it was what would they want to wear? Not what is easily cleaned, easily replaced and affordable.  

Somehow they think they were right there and instrumental in putting the place together and should be reaping the rewards of the business and yet they basically swooped in at the end and put a few tablecloths on tables, lit a few candles and unlocked the doors and are now whining that they haven't been given enough credit for their "genius" in opening the place.  It's misguided.

12 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

LVP stole their ‘Tom-Tom brand’ they built on VPR. 

I'm pretty sure the whole Tom-Tom brand/idea was LVP's in the first place.  They might actually be NAMED Tom and Tom, but all of the rest of it was her idea.

39 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I feel like there's a race between which will happen first, either Raquel's eyebrows become a unibrow, her hairline makes it down to her eyebrows, or her lips reach her nose.

I will give her this, she basically has all of the same issues that Teresa Giudice does, but somehow looks way less simian.

[Marley]

Lol if Tom and Tom tried opening their own bar it would be a huge mess that if it did ever open would be way over cost that never made money. LVP is a sneak but they could never do it on their own. Sandoval is so extra it’s ridiculous.

Who wants a frozen shot anyways lol. It’s dumb I think.

[ivygirl]

Just watched this thing. Mostly, I feel sad. Three of the most volatile cast members are dealing with the death of family members or jacked-up family relationships (or both). Clearly, they don’t know how to deal with it well and they’re turning those feelings outward, using the pain as a weapon to inflict pain on each other. I lost my dad 10+ years ago (at about the same age as these guys) and it was just really, really hard to watch them twist the knives into one another like they did; it dredged up old feelings. Not because I acted like they did, but because they’re screaming at each other in lieu of dealing with the real issue (or at least one of the issues). I don’t care how old you are, or how good/bad that relationship is, it’s difficult to go through the loss of a parent. I wanted to jump into the tv and tell (almost) all of them to stop talking, stop slinging crap at one another, and have just a moment of empathy for one another. I’m sure that Lisa just loved walking back onstage to the dulcet sounds of everyone yelling at one another. 

Speaking of Lisa, she’s so unnecessary at the VPR reunions. I’d rather have an LVP popup Edition—or do a “Skype edition” type thing (which they do for Summer House... never seen a full episode but the last minute or so gets tacked on to my recording of VPR).

Kristen needs to step back off her James reactions. I know I’m not the first to say that, but it’s so unneeded and feeds into James’ behavior. It makes her look so juvenile. At her age she should know how to hold it in, yet she doesn’t. 

Finally, I’m not crazy about what most of them were wearing—so much cleavage!—but I do like that for the most part (cough Raquel cough) they look so much better and more appropriate than the ball gowns and whatnot that most housewives wear.  

[Dance4Life]

11 minutes ago, smores said:

She totally has fillers.  Weirdly, the left side seems slightly larger than the right and I can't stop staring at it.  Hopefully now I won't be the only one who sees it.  You're welcome.  

Tom and Ariana also aren't comprehending that LVP pretty much came to the table with the entire project.  They had all of the funding, they had the space, they had the contacts, the contractors, the designers, etc.  

LVP DID try to include the guys, but they didn't successfully deliver on any of the aspects that they needed to.  They showed up to meetings late, they turned their drink list in well past the time they were told that it was supposed to be in (and after the food list had to be made), which is why Pandora got involved in the project.  They had evidently made such a poor impression on the interior designer that HE had requested that they not be present at the installation.  

It never occurred to either of the Toms to try to learn the business management side of things during the course of the build.  They spent "months and months" working on the cocktail list, but didn't really bother to learn what might make the most sense as far as the bar layout.  They also didn't bother to consider cost of ingredients, or multi-use ingredients, etc.  The consultant that LVP brought in was there to help tweak things and one of the things she specifically mentioned was the ability to use ingredients in multiple drinks and not having a bunch of super expensive ingredients that are only used in one drink.  Sandoval in particular likes to make drinks that take 35 ingredients and then use one rare machine in a super unique glass and take 46 minutes per drink and none of that is practical for what would ideally be a busy nightspot.  

The guys spent more time figuring out how they were going to arrive at the opening than they did the actual "business" end of things.  They wanted to pick the uniforms, but again, it was what would they want to wear? Not what is easily cleaned, easily replaced and affordable.  

Somehow they think they were right there and instrumental in putting the place together and should be reaping the rewards of the business and yet they basically swooped in at the end and put a few tablecloths on tables, lit a few candles and unlocked the doors and are now whining that they haven't been given enough credit for their "genius" in opening the place.  It's misguided.

I'm pretty sure the whole Tom-Tom brand/idea was LVP's in the first place.  They might actually be NAMED Tom and Tom, but all of the rest of it was her idea.

I will give her this, she basically has all of the same issues that Teresa Giudice does, but somehow looks way less simian.

Hahaha!  Their Tom- Tom BRAND I am talking about is their name and reality star status.  Not the actual.....Tom-Tom.

If you see that restaurant and watch the show......you would automatically know what is (who are) Tom-Tom.

So, yes! Now they will forever be tied to the restaurant.......whether they want to or not. If they make $5 or $5 million.

They really screwed up this deal and basically gave her their brand.

Who knows what kind of contract they made..........and, if they have a say about any Tom-Tom merchandise......or, even get a cut.

If The Toms did not know jack shit about the restaurant business......why is LVP even involving them in that way?

Taking a massive amount of their money, too?

It is true.  All you wrote.  They do not know the restaurant business.

This is why I am suspicious about this deal......she wants to call a ‘partnership.’

She wanted their ‘brand.’

This is why she was quick to offer their money back.  It is more symbolic at this point. She never needed the money or this fake partnership ....to open the restaurant.

She took advantage of them.

The entire cast just took noticed and this season the mood has change.

Just like the mood has changed with LVP on Housewives.

Her brothers death weakened and distracted her this season.. She got sloppy with Teddi. Ariana wasn’t afraid to call her out on camera. She got called out at the reunion.

I wonder if she will show up to the BH reunion....?????

Not all those tears she is shedding are for her brother!  Some are for herself. 😢

[ivygirl]

1 minute ago, Dance4Life said:

Her brothers death weakened and distracted her this season.. She got sloppy with Teddi. Ariana wasn’t afraid to call her out on camera. She got called out at the reunion.

I wonder if she will show up to the BH reunion....?????

Not all those tears she is shedding are for her brother!  Some are for herself. 😢

I was thinking that too. To me, it seemed like Lisa’s reactions were partly borne of her brother’s death—and partly because of what she’s dealing with in the RH world. All that yelling probably made her question a decision to go on the RHOBH reunion.

[druzy]

15 hours ago, HouseofBeck said:

I find her a fascinating being to watch, a la a different species. 

I too find Raquel to be a fascinating being to watch especially in this clip from the reunion:

Edited May 8, 2019 by druzy

[Claire Voyant]

1 hour ago, druzy said:

I too find Raquel to be a fascinating being to watch especially in this scene from the reunion:

Lala's taking a nap and is that an arm that's going across Raquel and James?  So odd... 

Nice to see a picture of Jax without a swollen Rudolf nose, even if it is photo-shopped.  All his surgeries will be for nothing if he's burned a coke hole through his septum.   

[TattleTeeny]

I think Raquel looks like a character from Home Movies or Dr. Katz or something. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

23 hours ago, Jel said:

I loved that part too, Hoodooznoodooz! Like 50 is at home, preying hands style, all OOOhh I hope Randall and Lala ask me to be an usher!!! What a great honor that would be! Crossing my fingers!

Right? The contrast of this Don’t Even Think about F- - -ing With Me guy, taking in the painstakingly-selected wedding invitations (“looks like Lala chose pearl over ecru...”), votives, organza, Calla lilies, and music (“This particular Pachelbel note always brings a tear to my eye...”) is really funny to me. 

[RHJunkie]

14 hours ago, Claire Voyant said:

What I don't understand is the double standard.  It's a-okay to call Raquel stupid, but don't you dare call Brittney a hillbilly.  Really?  

They were all screeching at the same time when Raquel tried to speak.  Can we say rude?  Inconsiderate?  What's that girl done to them to deserve such derision? 

If she wants to bed a man whore, it makes her no different than Brittney, who's bedding one of the biggest whore mongers there is. 

It's okay to say outrageous shit to James, but when he returns in kind, because he's almost always more clever and often hysterically funny with his insults, they all but have a hemorrhage when he's finished with them.  Seriously, how often do they need to piss on an electric fence in order to get a clue that it's not going to be much fun? 

1

Haha, this is brilliant!

[RHJunkie]

8 hours ago, pfk505 said:

Agree with all of this. Raquel is quite clearly just nervous and she has gone on multiple times about her "social anxiety" (I wouldn't call this that, exactly, more like performance anxiety). I find her so inoffensive, one moment that made me laugh was when Stassi looked at her point blank and said "I don't even know her" .. none of them have made the slightest effort and fair enough, but the spitting hate directed towards her seemed so personal and I honestly don't get it.

James was on FIRE and absolutely destroyed every single one of them. It was glorious. Count me in for team James. He is hateable in the extreme but compared to Jax, Lala, Britney et al. he is terrific. Someone upthread pointed out James' value to the show comes with the conflict he brings, and that his insults are often hilarious and nailed on. I couldn't agree with that more. He knows EXACTLY which buttons to push and for a show like this that is gold, Jerry. Looking forward to more shoehorning in of James and Racquel next year. He's the only thing keeping the show going.

It's funny because individually, most of us would probably agree that James has issues and he's not a great person at this stage in his life but what does it say about the rest of the cast when in comparison, it makes you want to root for him against them all?

[Jel]

Lisa made a mistake -- she should have called the bar DumDum. Then she could have rotated out the Dums once their ingratitude and delusional entitlement grew to stupid levels. Kidding, but mostly because DumDum is such a bad name. 😉

The thing is, I like the Toms and I like Ariana, but I think they are just way off on this. As Lisa said, she didn't want to partner with them for their business acumen.  I believe that's British politespeak for "please stop giving your opinions on things that you know nothing about".

But she did say she wanted their input on the cocktails though, and fair enough, they made some for her, and she liked some. But what if she didn't like them, or for all of the reasons Smores pointed out above, and while they were good, they just didn't make good sense from a business standpoint?  Is she still expected to have them on the menu, knowing they are too costly, too impractical, probably won't be big sellers? Input is one thing, and 90% ownership is the deciding factor.

Ariana seems to suggest that if they want a cocktail on the menu (no matter the cost) it should be on the menu.  There is a way to do that, and it's by being a majority owner. And, if the Toms and Ariana do open their own place, they'll see why it's just not business smart to have drinks on the menu that are too costly to make and too labor intensive.  And if they continue on, and open and close, buy and sell, build from the ground up a whole bunch more bars and restaurants, and gain a ton of experience along the way, maybe they'll also find themselves not automatically taking the advice of people who are new to the bar business.

My husband is a boss at a big company and he sometimes tells stories of the new employee, fresh out of school, who shows up and expects to be the CEO in two years. This feels like that to me. Enthusiasm is wonderful, effort is great, smarts are important, but all of those things plus knowledge and experience is the golden ticket.  Recognize that right now, at this moment, they really aren't bringing that much. That's not to say they won't in the future, but right now, it's not much.

Lisa also said she wanted them involved for their fun vibe, which is now seriously lacking.

How I would love to be one of the Toms, with 5% of that place, for as long as it stays open, for basically just showing up whenever I feel like it. 

[Jel]

37 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Right? The contrast of this Don’t Even Think about F- - -ing With Me guy, taking in the painstakingly-selected wedding invitations (“looks like Lala chose pearl over ecru...”), votives, organza, Calla lilies, and music (“This particular Pachelbel note always brings a tear to my eye...”) is really funny to me. 

Lol yes! OoOo what color are they picking for the usher tuxedos?  I hope it's grey! Oh, no, I must stop myself before I get too carried away with my excitement!  So, so, so stoked about the wedding!

Randall's delusion level is very entertaining. Gone too soon on this one, but I hope we do get to see him on VPR!

Just noticed my Freudian typo -- "preying hands"! haha!

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

Lisa made a mistake -- she should have called the bar DumDum. Then she could have rotated out the Dums once their ingratitude and delusional entitlement grew to stupid levels. Kidding, but mostly because DumDum is such a bad name. 😉

The thing is, I like the Toms and I like Ariana, but I think they are just way off on this. As Lisa said, she didn't want to partner with them for their business acumen.  I believe that's British politespeak for "please stop giving your opinions on things that you know nothing about".

But she did say she wanted their input on the cocktails though, and fair enough, they made some for her, and she liked some. But what if she didn't like them, or for all of the reasons Smores pointed out above, and while they were good, they just didn't make good sense from a business standpoint?  Is she still expected to have them on the menu, knowing they are too costly, too impractical, probably won't be big sellers? Input is one thing, and 90% ownership is the deciding factor.

Ariana seems to suggest that if they want a cocktail on the menu (no matter the cost) it should be on the menu.  There is a way to do that, and it's by being a majority owner. And, if the Toms and Ariana do open their own place, they'll see why it's just not business smart to have drinks on the menu that are too costly to make and too labor intensive.  And if they continue on, and open and close, buy and sell, build from the ground up a whole bunch more bars and restaurants, and gain a ton of experience along the way, maybe they'll also find themselves not automatically taking the advice of people who are new to the bar business.

My husband is a boss at a big company and he sometimes tells stories of the new employee, fresh out of school, who shows up and expects to be the CEO in two years. This feels like that to me. Enthusiasm is wonderful, effort is great, smarts are important, but all of those things plus knowledge and experience is the golden ticket.  Recognize that right now, at this moment, they really aren't bringing that much. That's not to say they won't in the future, but right now, it's not much.

Lisa also said she wanted them involved for their fun vibe, which is now seriously lacking.

How I would love to be one of the Toms, with 5% of that place, for as long as it stays open, for basically just showing up whenever I feel like it. 

I think what loses me on Schwartz, Sandovol and Ariana on this whole thing is that they are airing grievances after the fact but common sense begs the question - how much control did you really think you'd have with just 5% share each? There are larger investors involved who have the collective ability to veto their decisions. $50K is not chump change for them, why didn't any of them sit down and have a serious conversation about what that 5% would entail? They readily jumped at the opportunity and are now upset that someone didn't hold their hand and explain every little detail of the process to them. 

I don't think it's fair that Lisa responded to some of their grievances by saying, 'if you wanted to be involved then you should have been around or you should have said that'. Because we did see the guys asking to be more involved and come to her with ideas. Not liking those ideas is one thing but to put it on them for not bringing those ideas forward when we saw that at least some of those ideas were raised is disingenuous on her part. Given the level of involvement that both Toms wanted, it should have been a conversation initiated by them with the rest of the investors to have a clear understanding of things so they could make a more informed decision as to whether they wanted to invest or not. While both guys seem to have an impressive resume behind the bar, I'm certain that LVP saw their involvement as an opportunity to heavily promote the bar on Vanderpump Rules and use their faces as a 'tourist' style incentive the way her other restaurants have benefitted from having the cast still making appearances at the establishments.

[b2H]

On 5/6/2019 at 9:45 PM, farmgal4 said:

I can’t believe I watch this shit.  I really need to re-examine my life.

I was going to watch it and then discovered the Bachelorette was on and will be starting its new season next week.

I'm out of the reunion.  I don't need to see any of this.

[ghoulina]

23 hours ago, kelseykixx said:

That's not really true though - he doesn't hang with them for Lala, he's always hanging around the VPR crew like an embarrassing parent who won't go away. Him and Jax have some weird bromance. I don't think Rand is above them at all - I just think Lala doesn't want him on the show because their relationship is a complete embarrassment and everyone would see him for the doofy, shlubby, annoying "fat man" he is. As long he's hidden away from the eyes of the viewer than Lala can pretend like she's living this glamorous, aspirational lifestyle with a successful movie producer fiance. 

Yea, I've seen enough of Rand in their Instastories to know that he would probably love hanging out with them during filming. Lala is just embarrassed that THAT'S the best she could gold dig for. 

[Jel]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

I think what loses me on Schwartz, Sandovol and Ariana on this whole thing is that they are airing grievances after the fact but common sense begs the question - how much control did you really think you'd have with just 5% share each? There are larger investors involved who have the collective ability to veto their decisions. $50K is not chump change for them, why didn't any of them sit down and have a serious conversation about what that 5% would entail? They readily jumped at the opportunity and are now upset that someone didn't hold their hand and explain every little detail of the process to them. 

I don't think it's fair that Lisa responded to some of their grievances by saying, 'if you wanted to be involved then you should have been around or you should have said that'. Because we did see the guys asking to be more involved and come to her with ideas. Not liking those ideas is one thing but to put it on them for not bringing those ideas forward when we saw that at least some of those ideas were raised is disingenuous on her part. Given the level of involvement that both Toms wanted, it should have been a conversation initiated by them with the rest of the investors to have a clear understanding of things so they could make a more informed decision as to whether they wanted to invest or not. While both guys seem to have an impressive resume behind the bar, I'm certain that LVP saw their involvement as an opportunity to heavily promote the bar on Vanderpump Rules and use their faces as a 'tourist' style incentive the way her other restaurants have benefitted from having the cast still making appearances at the establishments.

I agree about the Toms being a tourist-draw, and that Lisa saw that as their value in this endeavor, and I think their 5% each share is fair consideration for that, especially now that she's offered to return their money and still allow them to keep the percentage.

And, as I do like them, I hope this serves as a valuable life and business lesson: before you invest, before you agree to any partnership, do your due diligence.  If you can't force yourself be assertive enough to have your questions answered and issues addressed before hand, then you might not be ready to be in business. I don't mean that as a slam, it's just practical.  And going forward, if you have a problem, bring a solution with you when you air it; otherwise, you're just bitching.

If they had wanted to be more involved, I suspect they could have found a way to do that, via assertiveness or showing up, or something. Just a hunch. 

Even in their "airing of grievances" they have behaved more like disgruntled teens and less like adults in business. It seems they had certain expectations which became assumptions, but were not properly clarified and now have some disappointments, that have not been addressed properly (getting your girlfriend to say something-- le sigh).

Unfortunately, Ariana with what may have been only good intentions (I really don't know) now has me side-eyeing her for the way she handed this post-show. The whole "Lisa is vindictive/ we're just her minions" stuff -- if she thought that, and if the Toms agreed, then why would they go into business with someone like that? That's 100% on them. The whole "oh everyone knows how terrible LIsa is!" argument only adds further proof to their foolishness. Except I don't think they are stupid. So, I do side eye this and find it's pretty manipulative of Ariana, and I now kind of wonder what her game is.

I feel safe in saying that I bet there are thousands, no hundreds of thousands of people who would love the gift that these two were given, would take this opportunity to learn the business and in the meantime be very happy to let the bosses run things until they get some experience. 

[Stiggs]

I'd really like to get a better idea of what "hard work" means to the Toms. To Sandoval, "hard work" could be, like, folding a load of laundry. I know a lot of the scenes are just to entertain us, but it seemed like on the occasions when they needed to be actual business people they didn't really rise to the occasion. I'm sure they were doing their version of hard work, and I have no doubt that they can bust a move during a shift at SUR, but to open up an establishment of that size—I can see why LVP basically locked them out at one point. 

That said, I think LVP made a huge error when she didn't sit down with crayons, paper and some juice boxes and listed EXACTLY what was expected of the Toms, and what was none of their concern. Granted, it would have led to a bazillion questions and requests from the Toms, but hey, don't invite them to invest in a business and name it after them if you don't want to deal with their adolescent approach to literally everything. And it should have been made clear to them that it would be a while before they got a return on their small investment—or at least set up some sort of salary schedule with them, if she basically just needs them to show up and Tom it up. I feel like their involvement was just played up for the show, and they had pictures of themselves starting a freaking chain and raking in money hand over fist every night. 

The grief wars on this show are killing me (pun intended, lol). I went through a major loss and my friends and I would joke about my grace period—how long I could get away with not returning emails and phone calls or acting like an asshole? At the same time, a friend went through a similar loss and became so mean. She just said the most horrible, terrible stuff to people that never would have previously flown out of her mouth. I remember telling her the grace period didn't cover shit like that. She told me to fuck off, lol. Grief is so weird and comes out in so many different ways, but there is never an excuse to say hurtful and hateful things to people. 

WTF was LVP wearing? 

Raquel talks like she is answering questions from pageant judges.

[becauseIsaidso]

IIRC, back when LVP mentioned the inception of TomTom to the two Toms, it was something along the lines of she was planning a new bar/restaurant and wanted to name it TomTom and were they interested in being the 'TomTom' part of it....also, when they handed her the signed papers in the last episode or so, I was under the distinct impression that they had had them for some time. These are legally adult men, who, presumably, can read and understand a business contract. Why did they not ask any questions about rights to the name, basis for exclusion/inclusion of any of their cocktail recipes, etc, BEFORE they signed on the dotted line. (I was 21 and naïve when I signed my first rental lease, but I read the whole damn thing which actually came in handy down the line) Did they even bother to read it? Was it really Lisa's responsibility to school them on how to read a contract? Yes, I am a Lisa fan, but I am also dead against anyone willfully taking advantage of others. And it's not as if the two Toms had NEVER worked in the restaurant/bar industry or had any exposure as to what is entailed in managing and growing a successful business. I think Lisa may well have figured the offer would play so strongly to their egos that they would just sign & hand over the money to make things official. But, as has also been pointed out previously, they get to be the name without doing any of the heavy lifting. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by becauseIsaidso
correcting rather annoying spelling errors.

[Persnickety1]

Just a couple of random thoughts viewing this episode...

I wonder if Raquel has ever undergone a lobotomy...would explain a lot.

I wonder at which arena Raquel will be performing in the Ice Capades since that's apparently what she's dressed for.

I wonder which NFL team signed Fullback Katie and when she's making her debut?  

I wonder if I'll get to see a vein explode in Jax's forehead during this reunion.

I wonder if Lala should perhaps rejoin the "real" world where when one of us "regular" people lose a beloved parent, we are given three whole days of bereavement leave, have to compartmentalize our grief and deal with it off the clock, and are expected to be our professional best immediately after those "generous" three days of bereavement leave.

I wonder if Schaena is so nasal because of vocal fry, a deviated septum, or excessive nose candy?

That's all I've got so far...but episode 2 is coming up soon!

Edited May 8, 2019 by Persnickety1

[may flowers]

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I think what loses me on Schwartz, Sandovol and Ariana on this whole thing is that they are airing grievances after the fact but common sense begs the question - how much control did you really think you'd have with just 5% share each? There are larger investors involved who have the collective ability to veto their decisions. $50K is not chump change for them, why didn't any of them sit down and have a serious conversation about what that 5% would entail? They readily jumped at the opportunity and are now upset that someone didn't hold their hand and explain every little detail of the process to them. 

I don't think it's fair that Lisa responded to some of their grievances by saying, 'if you wanted to be involved then you should have been around or you should have said that'. Because we did see the guys asking to be more involved and come to her with ideas. Not liking those ideas is one thing but to put it on them for not bringing those ideas forward when we saw that at least some of those ideas were raised is disingenuous on her part. Given the level of involvement that both Toms wanted, it should have been a conversation initiated by them with the rest of the investors to have a clear understanding of things so they could make a more informed decision as to whether they wanted to invest or not. While both guys seem to have an impressive resume behind the bar, I'm certain that LVP saw their involvement as an opportunity to heavily promote the bar on Vanderpump Rules and use their faces as a 'tourist' style incentive the way her other restaurants have benefitted from having the cast still making appearances at the establishments.

If I remember correctly, LVP and Ken did try to get Tom and Tom more involved in design when they went to Vegas to meet with the designer. I think the Toms partied and were late/didn’t show up to meetings. The Toms might have tried to make up later in that trip, but I think that it was too late. 

[Persnickety1]

4 minutes ago, may flowers said:

If I remember correctly, LVP and Ken did try to get Tom and Tom more involved in design when they went to Vegas to meet with the designer. I think the Toms partied and were late/didn’t show up to meetings. The Toms might have tried to make up later in that trip, but I think that it was too late. 

I remember that, too.  

Also IIRC, they also didn't have time to take a shower and they knew Lisa would be able to smell the stench of alcohol emanating from their pores.

Yuck.  

[smores]

15 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

Hahaha!  Their Tom- Tom BRAND I am talking about is their name and reality star status.  Not the actual.....Tom-Tom.

If you see that restaurant and watch the show......you would automatically know what is (who are) Tom-Tom.

So, yes! Now they will forever be tied to the restaurant.......whether they want to or not. If they make $5 or $5 million.

They really screwed up this deal and basically gave her their brand.

Who knows what kind of contract they made..........and, if they have a say about any Tom-Tom merchandise......or, even get a cut.

If The Toms did not know jack shit about the restaurant business......why is LVP even involving them in that way?

Taking a massive amount of their money, too?

It is true.  All you wrote.  They do not know the restaurant business.

This is why I am suspicious about this deal......she wants to call a ‘partnership.’

She wanted their ‘brand.’

LVP offered them a way to get into the restaurant/club business and start out small without having to take all the risk on themselves.  Essentially they were able to throw in a "token" amount (and I realize $50k isn't small, but, given what these kids are pulling in from the show, it's not HUGE), have someone who has successfully built restaurants and clubs before as a partner with know-how and also have the show to use to launch it and better the odds of it taking off.  And then they'd be able to buy in further along the way by re-investing profits to get a bigger stake as LVP and Ken aren't going to want to keep full ownership forever.  So all things considered, it's really not a bad deal.  And if I wanted to be able to replicate the experience in the future, I'd be all up in every step of the process, trying to learn every piece of it.  

I'm pretty sure she's mentioned that the partners in SUR have a somewhat similar deal, they started with a smaller stake and have expanded and LVP has helped them build a successful empire.  

8 hours ago, Jel said:

My husband is a boss at a big company and he sometimes tells stories of the new employee, fresh out of school, who shows up and expects to be the CEO in two years. This feels like that to me. Enthusiasm is wonderful, effort is great, smarts are important, but all of those things plus knowledge and experience is the golden ticket.  Recognize that right now, at this moment, they really aren't bringing that much. That's not to say they won't in the future, but right now, it's not much.

Lisa also said she wanted them involved for their fun vibe, which is now seriously lacking.

How I would love to be one of the Toms, with 5% of that place, for as long as it stays open, for basically just showing up whenever I feel like it. 

I work in a field where so many people just seem to think that they can do what I do with no actual training.  It's sort of like the show Kitchen Nightmares.  You have someone who is able to bake really great muffins and cookies, everyone around them LOVES their baked goods and says "You should have a bakery!" and one day they say, screw it all! I'm opening a bakery! And they do.  Then can't figure out why their business sucks, because they have no clue how to actually RUN a bakery and it turns out they aren't actually good at being a baker.  So someone like Gordon Ramsay has to come in and try to fix their shit before they lose everything.  

This is pretty much how I see the Toms. Sandoval is a bartender, he may make fantastic drinks and thinks he would be an awesome bar owner.  But, he doesn't know a damn thing about all of the rest of the business, and he's not overly interested in it.  He thinks the fact that he can tend bar, knows what you should put in a drink so obviously he could just run his own place and it would be successful.  He has no need to learn from LVP or anyone else.  He only had to focus on his entrance to the opening.

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't think it's fair that Lisa responded to some of their grievances by saying, 'if you wanted to be involved then you should have been around or you should have said that'. Because we did see the guys asking to be more involved and come to her with ideas. Not liking those ideas is one thing but to put it on them for not bringing those ideas forward when we saw that at least some of those ideas were raised is disingenuous on her part. Given the level of involvement that both Toms wanted, it should have been a conversation initiated by them with the rest of the investors to have a clear understanding of things so they could make a more informed decision as to whether they wanted to invest or not. 

The Toms claim they want the level of involvement, but they actual didn't demonstrate it.  They didn't turn the stuff in on time.  They were too drunk to make it to the meeting in Vegas on time.  They were super pissy about the consultant.  They didn't bother to work with LVP on the uniforms just "we've picked something awesome!" and it was like $200/shirt, like that was going to be realistic.  

2 hours ago, Stiggs said:

That said, I think LVP made a huge error when she didn't sit down with crayons, paper and some juice boxes and listed EXACTLY what was expected of the Toms, and what was none of their concern. Granted, it would have led to a bazillion questions and requests from the Toms, but hey, don't invite them to invest in a business and name it after them if you don't want to deal with their adolescent approach to literally everything. And it should have been made clear to them that it would be a while before they got a return on their small investment—or at least set up some sort of salary schedule with them, if she basically just needs them to show up and Tom it up. I feel like their involvement was just played up for the show, and they had pictures of themselves starting a freaking chain and raking in money hand over fist every night. 

It also doesn't really appear like they asked these questions.  So much of what is going on right now, the Toms being pissy about not having been paid, etc, why did they not discuss that sort of thing ahead of time? Of course you'd have to be able to predict that you wouldn't immediately get money back when it cost over $2M to build and you put $50k in.  But they basically just wanted to slap their name on the process and are now trying to whine that they don't get actual control.

2 minutes ago, may flowers said:

If I remember correctly, LVP and Ken did try to get Tom and Tom more involved in design when they went to Vegas to meet with the designer. I think the Toms partied and were late/didn’t show up to meetings. The Toms might have tried to make up later in that trip, but I think that it was too late. 

Yep.  Totally this.  And even with the Mexico trip, it was a non-refundable trip that they booked BEFORE they talked to LVP and said they wanted to do it.  Then LVP said they should go, that it would be good for them to go and get some fun and get it out of their system since they were going to have to buckle down after.  But, it was already booked and nonrefundable.  They let that slip.  It had already been booked before the conversation with LVP, and then later Ariana wanted to whine that LVP was trying to make it look like they were irresponsible for going. 

[Jel]

12 minutes ago, smores said:

And even with the Mexico trip, it was a non-refundable trip that they booked BEFORE they talked to LVP and said they wanted to do it. 

Seriously!?

Well that changes it from,"But, Lisa you told them to go!"

to

"Well, this may be a few days before the opening of our restaurant, but it's a great deal, so let's just book it without speaking to Lisa and Ken first." And that sounds more like the "showing up late, unshowered and still half drunk to an important business meeting, PARTY FIRST" Toms that we have come to know and love.

And the fact that Lisa told them to go now before things get too hectic was really just a happy coincidence for them. If she'd said "No, you need to be here right now" and they then told her they had already bought tix for Cabo, she could have said something like "What!? You planned a vacation right before your restaurant is about to have its grand opening!?  Without even checking with us?" They would have looked pretty bad.

They want to be involved unless it interferes with their party time? Erm. 

The sketchy part is the way Ariana, who surely must have known that they bought the tickets and knowing Lisa V. didn't know that, played it. Hmm definite side eye on her now.

[breezy424]

5 hours ago, smores said:

LVP offered them a way to get into the restaurant/club business and start out small without having to take all the risk on themselves.  Essentially they were able to throw in a "token" amount (and I realize $50k isn't small, but, given what these kids are pulling in from the show, it's not HUGE), have someone who has successfully built restaurants and clubs before as a partner with know-how and also have the show to use to launch it and better the odds of it taking off.  And then they'd be able to buy in further along the way by re-investing profits to get a bigger stake as LVP and Ken aren't going to want to keep full ownership forever.  So all things considered, it's really not a bad deal.  And if I wanted to be able to replicate the experience in the future, I'd be all up in every step of the process, trying to learn every piece of it.  

I'm pretty sure she's mentioned that the partners in SUR have a somewhat similar deal, they started with a smaller stake and have expanded and LVP has helped them build a successful empire.  

I work in a field where so many people just seem to think that they can do what I do with no actual training.  It's sort of like the show Kitchen Nightmares.  You have someone who is able to bake really great muffins and cookies, everyone around them LOVES their baked goods and says "You should have a bakery!" and one day they say, screw it all! I'm opening a bakery! And they do.  Then can't figure out why their business sucks, because they have no clue how to actually RUN a bakery and it turns out they aren't actually good at being a baker.  So someone like Gordon Ramsay has to come in and try to fix their shit before they lose everything.  

This is pretty much how I see the Toms. Sandoval is a bartender, he may make fantastic drinks and thinks he would be an awesome bar owner.  But, he doesn't know a damn thing about all of the rest of the business, and he's not overly interested in it.  He thinks the fact that he can tend bar, knows what you should put in a drink so obviously he could just run his own place and it would be successful.  He has no need to learn from LVP or anyone else.  He only had to focus on his entrance to the opening.

The Toms claim they want the level of involvement, but they actual didn't demonstrate it.  They didn't turn the stuff in on time.  They were too drunk to make it to the meeting in Vegas on time.  They were super pissy about the consultant.  They didn't bother to work with LVP on the uniforms just "we've picked something awesome!" and it was like $200/shirt, like that was going to be realistic.  

It also doesn't really appear like they asked these questions.  So much of what is going on right now, the Toms being pissy about not having been paid, etc, why did they not discuss that sort of thing ahead of time? Of course you'd have to be able to predict that you wouldn't immediately get money back when it cost over $2M to build and you put $50k in.  But they basically just wanted to slap their name on the process and are now trying to whine that they don't get actual control.

Yep.  Totally this.  And even with the Mexico trip, it was a non-refundable trip that they booked BEFORE they talked to LVP and said they wanted to do it.  Then LVP said they should go, that it would be good for them to go and get some fun and get it out of their system since they were going to have to buckle down after.  But, it was already booked and nonrefundable.  They let that slip.  It had already been booked before the conversation with LVP, and then later Ariana wanted to whine that LVP was trying to make it look like they were irresponsible for going. 

It was a production trip.  LVP knew this.  Production paid and scheduled it.  And LVP and Kenny  'are' Executive Producers (along with four others IIRC).  It had nothing to do with being nonrefundable. 

LVP absolutely knew about it far in advance and 'she' was trying to make like they were being irresponsible.  She played them and I think that's why Ariana was upset. 

[smores]

10 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

It was a production trip.  LVP knew this.  Production paid and scheduled it.  And LVP and Kenny  'are' Executive Producers (along with four others IIRC).  It had nothing to do with being nonrefundable. 

LVP absolutely knew about it far in advance and 'she' was trying to make like they were being irresponsible.  She played them and I think that's why Ariana was upset. 

LVP isn't the one trying to have this both ways.  The boys are.  They're trying to play "Oh we're so totally dedicated to the business, we're working our fingers to the bone, we have all these ideas and we've given everything to it and LVP is just being awful and not telling us anything, she's not using ANY of our ideas and she is treating us like FOOLS!"  But then at the same time, they show up late to meetings, smelling like a distillery, don't turn the drinks list in on time, and knowing the open date plan a trip right before it so they have a last hurrah? It just doesn't work that way.  

You can't hold LVP responsible for giving you a chance, wanting you to participate, and then also being disappointed if you fail to follow through on participating and then not always taking your opinions into account.  I'm not saying that LVP is totally blameless, but I am saying that if it was up to the boys, TomTom would still not be open, they wouldn't have a single permit pulled and they would still be in the kitchen alternately mixing drinks and practicing lines that they'd use on customers when they were big bar owners. 

LVP got the trains running and actually got the place open.  They also saw her open Pump, and likely would have been able to notice that she didn't take a big trip right before or after it.  Something they might have considered when planning their big trip.  

[Jel]

Plus, it was a joke. It was clearly a joke.  And you are right, smores, had they shown themselves, on camera, to be serious minded and hard working business people, we'd all be saying WTF Lisa? over that. 

I recommend they get thicker skins if they are going to be working with Lisa -- she's probably not going to stop making those kinds of jokes.  

Do like the English do in the face of the jabby joke -- laugh it off, or lob one back. Then let it go, it's really not that serious.  I doubt anyone is seriously basing their opinions of the Toms on Lisa's jokes anyway -- it's based on how we have seen them behaving, and that hasn't been all negative.

It's definitely not smart to complain about your boss in public though. 

[smores]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

Plus, it was a joke. It was clearly a joke.  And you are right, smores, had they shown themselves, on camera, to be serious minded and hard working business people, we'd all be saying WTF Lisa? over that. 

I recommend they get thicker skins if they are going to be working with Lisa -- she's probably not going to stop making those kinds of jokes.  

Do like the English do in the face of the jabby joke -- laugh it off, or lob one back. Then let it go, it's really not that serious.  I doubt anyone is seriously basing their opinions of the Toms on Lisa's jokes anyway -- it's based on how we have seen them behaving, and that hasn't been all negative.

It's definitely not smart to complain about your boss in public though. 

You know, they totally could have made a joke out of the entire thing.  If they felt like LVP was coming down on them for taking that trip and not taking things seriously after that interview, they could have easily made their point by getting some ridiculous costume necklaces, stuffed dogs and dog carrier purses.  Then show up to work the next time sort of dressed like LVP, carrying the dogs in the bags and play it off as wanting to be just like her so they make it a success.  She'd lose her shit laughing at them and it would be over. Point made, if they actually felt that way.  

It's basically how Schwartz handled the check bouncing.  That's actually another example of the situation, he KNEW he closed the account and that LVP had the check and hadn't yet cashed it.  He never bothered to come to her with a new one saying "Here, I had to close that account, please shred that other one, here is a new one to replace it"  He didn't even tell her he closed that account and he'd bring her a new one.  Nothing.  But he's supposed to be a serious business partner? Yet after LVP confronted him about the check bouncing, he made a joke out of it and showed up with the cash.  She has teased him about the cash and the James Bond thing, but not the check bouncing.  All she's said since then is that he made her laugh and it was hysterical.  

[FancyNancy]

Kristen is always giving me obsession w/ James teas. It’s because outside of trying to take him down, she has no storyline for real.

[RHJunkie]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

It was a production trip.  LVP knew this.  Production paid and scheduled it.  And LVP and Kenny  'are' Executive Producers (along with four others IIRC).  It had nothing to do with being nonrefundable. 

LVP absolutely knew about it far in advance and 'she' was trying to make like they were being irresponsible.  She played them and I think that's why Ariana was upset. 

Ariana absolutely knew that the trips were booked because of production, not because Lisa told them to go on a trip and have some fun which is why it was booked before those words even came out of her mouth yet Ariana and the Toms did use her words against her in defense of themselves. Ariana explained why she was upset. She said when out for drinks - Lisa's comments made the Toms look like idiots and because she's dating a Tom by extension, it made her look like an idiot. Ariana changed her tune after about simply defending her boyfriend but if it was truly about that, the thought of how SHE looked by extension would not have crossed her mind, or at the very least, those words would have most certainly not have passed her lips.

Not everything has to be a conspiracy or always has to be malicious. She threw a jab because that's what she does (she thinks she's 'funny') and it also served a purpose of promoting the upcoming season of the show. Unfortunately for the Toms, the jab came at their expense. The Toms should have addressed it and it didn't require them having to be Lisa's doormats. When you call someone out and tell them how you feel about something they said or did, you're putting them on notice of what you're observing. Lisa could apologize (which I don't think she did) or she could double down and continually say it was a 'joke' an they could have simply said 'okay, I'll take it at face value because I know we have a banter style relationship but that one hurt my feelings and I felt crossed a line because I am taking this seriously and I just wanted to make sure I was honest with you about it, that's all'. Lisa would have acted all flustered like she often does but at least there would be no criticism on how the situation was addressed.

[Jel]

Did it really cost the Toms anything though? Is there anyone, anywhere who thought, "Hmm, up until Lisa pointed that out I thought the Toms were just working very hard and taking their role as business owners very seriously. They themselves have never done anything that would to lead me to think otherwise."?

Their silliness is fun and entertaining, and I hope they continue to bring it. For me, with all of these shows, the underlying, but key point is keep it at least slightly mockable. Granted it can be a fine line, but when that line is crossed it gets too heavy and serious, and it loses a lot of entertainment value. Some (silly/mockable) drama is good, eye rolly behavior is good, OTT behavior is good. But saying the boss is vindictive, she's trying to screw us and most of the audience is just too stupid/too fat/too mesmerized to see that = not good.  IMO. My practical opinion.

Lisa hired the Toms for their fun vibe -- I watch for that, too. I hope that doesn't change.

[ghoulina]

14 hours ago, breezy424 said:

It was a production trip.  LVP knew this.  Production paid and scheduled it.  And LVP and Kenny  'are' Executive Producers (along with four others IIRC).  It had nothing to do with being nonrefundable. 

LVP absolutely knew about it far in advance and 'she' was trying to make like they were being irresponsible.  She played them and I think that's why Ariana was upset. 

Exactly. They do these trips every year. It's part of what make the show so "fun". LVP has a stake in this show. She knows what brings the ratings. She knows it would not be the same if the Toms didn't go on the big cast trip. Come on. 

[langford peel]

Here is the thing. This is how business works. This is what lawyers and accountants are for and the fact that the Tom's did not consult one shows that they are genius level morons. If Lisa decided to name the bar the "Zebra" bar she would not be going to the zoo to consult. Yes she is using their celebrity. That they got by being associated with her bar and her show. They can be replaced. They should be replaced. They are the most limited of limited partners. Financially. Mentally. In every which way. 

Lisa has indeed been off this season. I think the grief has really hurt her and she is off her game. She might have placated these morons a little bit more but I think she doesn't have the patience. In the meantime Ken kept his eye on the ball and trademarked everything. The way you are supposed to do if you are a businessman and not a drunken cretin like the Toms. They should look at this as a learning experience. They can go out and look for investors and open their own joint. Or sink their own money into it. Instead of buying million dollar mansions they can invest a million or two into a bar. The way Lisa did. You don't get something for nothing. 

They need to grow up and get a lawyer. Or at least an adult to sit in on their business meetings.

[HunterHunted]

23 hours ago, becauseIsaidso said:

IIRC, back when LVP mentioned the inception of TomTom to the two Toms, it was something along the lines of she was planning a new bar/restaurant and wanted to name it TomTom and were they interested in being the 'TomTom' part of it....also, when they handed her the signed papers in the last episode or so, I was under the distinct impression that they had had them for some time.

Lisa has had their investment checks that she held on to since late June or early July 2017. They usually film from mid-May until the end of August. She finally cashed the checks right before TomTom opened in August 9, 2018. Lisa has said repeatedly that she would not sign a contract with the Toms. She insisted that she had a handshake deal with Guillermo and Nathalie. What they got from Lisa was a term sheet. She gave them the term sheet right before the Daily Mail party. That party was July 12, 2018. They talked about needing time to send it to their attorneys to review before they signed. She did not give them a lot of time, especially when you consider that they've been asking for a contract or term sheet since 2017.

The meeting with Nick Alain in Vegas was early July 2017. They had turned it into a combo birthday celebration for Sandoval and TomTom meeting. Sandoval's birthday is July 7th. The Toms showed up late and stinking of booze. Sandoval in particular was free with his opinions. Lisa pulled them aside and told them to shut it. However, I suspect even if they had been sober and on time, Sandoval still would have been free with his opinion and LVP still would have told him to shut up. I'm not going to make excuses for their behavior during that meeting, but I don't think LVP had any intention of really getting the Toms' input in that meeting. 

As for the cocktails list, this is another casualty of LVP's self-serving narratives. They usually start filming mid May. They postponed the start of filming season 7 because Lisa's brother died April 30, 2018. They actually started filming June 2 or so. So those weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeks in May when LVP was busy waiting for the cocktail list was actually when she was in mourning and not communicating with anyone. As soon as they begin filming and LVP asks for the cocktails, they give them to her and let her taste test them.

I don't think the Toms are capable of opening or running a bar on their own. I just think Lisa hasn't been above board with them and she's never been clear about the business and their roles and responsibilities. Sandoval, in particular, has repeatedly communicated that he needs a little more information. I doubt that the cast would be this openly irritated with LVP had she bothered to make the Toms clear on their roles even if it happened off camera. I don't think she had or maybe didn't until the 11th hour at which point, the guys had already experienced a year of frustration.

Also you can't copyright recipes. The guys are free to take the cocktail recipes with them.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/08/tom-tom-timeline.html

[Duke2801]

I heard Ariana recently on Danny Pellegrino’s podcast. She said she was mostly upset/annoyed because it seemed like Lisa was only making snarky comments about the Toms WHILE cameras were rolling.

Off camera, she talked to - and about - them more respectfully. She felt like Lisa was using them as a punching bag simply to make good tv. That was the basis of her “confrontation” with Lisa at the finale party—but she couldn’t say that outright because it breaks the fourth wall. 

[geauxaway]

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Lisa has had their investment checks that she held on to since late June or early July 2017. They usually film from mid-May until the end of August. She finally cashed the checks right before TomTom opened in August 9, 2018. Lisa has said repeatedly that she would not sign a contract with the Toms. She insisted that she had a handshake deal with Guillermo and Nathalie. What they got from Lisa was a term sheet. She gave them the term sheet right before the Daily Mail party. That party was July 12, 2018. They talked about needing time to send it to their attorneys to review before they signed. She did not give them a lot of time, especially when you consider that they've been asking for a contract or term sheet since 2017.

The meeting with Nick Alain in Vegas was early July 2017. They had turned it into a combo birthday celebration for Sandoval and TomTom meeting. Sandoval's birthday is July 7th. The Toms showed up late and stinking of booze. Sandoval in particular was free with his opinions. Lisa pulled them aside and told them to shut it. However, I suspect even if they had been sober and on time, Sandoval still would have been free with his opinion and LVP still would have told him to shut up. I'm not going to make excuses for their behavior during that meeting, but I don't think LVP had any intention of really getting the Toms' input in that meeting. 

As for the cocktails list, this is another casualty of LVP's self-serving narratives. They usually start filming mid May. They postponed the start of filming season 7 because Lisa's brother died April 30, 2018. They actually started filming June 2 or so. So those weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeks in May when LVP was busy waiting for the cocktail list was actually when she was in mourning and not communicating with anyone. As soon as they begin filming and LVP asks for the cocktails, they give them to her and let her taste test them.

I don't think the Toms are capable of opening or running a bar on their own. I just think Lisa hasn't been above board with them and she's never been clear about the business and their roles and responsibilities. Sandoval, in particular, has repeatedly communicated that he needs a little more information. I doubt that the cast would be this openly irritated with LVP had she bothered to make the Toms clear on their roles even if it happened off camera. I don't think she had or maybe didn't until the 11th hour at which point, the guys had already experienced a year of frustration.

Also you can't copyright recipes. The guys are free to take the cocktail recipes with them.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/08/tom-tom-timeline.html

 

[chenoa333]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:10 PM, becauseIsaidso said:

Seriously, does ANYONE expect us to believe that jax has changed? That brittny is a pure & Christian (whatever the eff that means in this country at this time) country girl? That stassie has changed? that kristin is no longer crazy? 

please

All the above and add to that, NOBODY has changed. 

And WTF was Rachel (?) james girlfriend, wearing? It reminded me of something from the Ice Capades circa 1966. What a strange bunch these SUR cast members are.

[heatherchandler]

36 minutes ago, chenoa333 said:

All the above and add to that, NOBODY has changed. 

And WTF was Rachel (?) james girlfriend, wearing? It reminded me of something from the Ice Capades circa 1966. What a strange bunch these SUR cast members are.

Like Ronnie & Ben from Watch What Crappens said, she looks like a swiffer duster!

Edited May 11, 2019 by heatherchandler

[FozzyBear]

Raquel didn’t come across as dumb to me. I think she doesn’t do well under pressure and the cameras make her nervous. Also her California accent doesn’t help anything. I think she’s just not as vindictive drama queen like the rest of them. 

[FozzyBear]

James has some real class issues.  And gender issues. And issues in general.

[greyflannel]

3 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Raquel didn’t come across as dumb to me. I think she doesn’t do well under pressure and the cameras make her nervous. Also her California accent doesn’t help anything. I think she’s just not as vindictive drama queen like the rest of them. 

California accent?

[FozzyBear]

43 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

California accent?

That thing she does where everything sounds a little like a question and where she sort of talks in the back of her throat. I’ve heard it referred to as vocal fry. It’s a pretty typical Southern California accent. Every place has an accent when you get right down to it. Some we just don’t recognize as accents. 

[greyflannel]

35 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

That thing she does where everything sounds a little like a question and where she sort of talks in the back of her throat. I’ve heard it referred to as vocal fry. It’s a pretty typical Southern California accent. Every place has an accent when you get right down to it. Some we just don’t recognize as accents. 

I grew up there. Must have changed since I moved.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, FozzyBear said:

That thing she does where everything sounds a little like a question and where she sort of talks in the back of her throat. I’ve heard it referred to as vocal fry. It’s a pretty typical Southern California accent. Every place has an accent when you get right down to it. Some we just don’t recognize as accents. 

Vocal fry isn't really a hallmark of a California accent. Vocal fry is actually a generational thing. It's a sort of low register rattle gravely creaking sound. And despite people constantly complaining about young women with vocal fry, young men do it too. It's more common in young women. I've suspected that it developed as an overcorrection from young women who were constantly berated for uptalk. If you've heard Elizabeth Holmes' of Theranos fake deep voice, you can tell the constant policing of young women's voices lodged in her head and never let go.

As @FozzyBear said, every place has an accent. I've included some links that discuss linguist Penelope Eckert's work on California speech.

https://laist.com/2018/06/19/is_there_such_a_thing_as_a_southern.php

https://web.stanford.edu/dept/linguistics/VoCal/

I'm from Western Pennsylvania. I learned from some of my linguistics courses that I don't really have the very distinctive accent of Western Pennsylvania (I knew I didn't have the accent). My accent is decidedly more mid-Atlantic, but I have all of the grammar of Western PA.

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, greyflannel said:

I grew up there. Must have changed since I moved.

Nope.  It is definitely a generational trait, not confined to SoCal.

[sunshine23]

Raquel was like a lamb led to the slaughter. Her only offense is having poor judgement of character and choosing to date a loser, but then again the same can be said about the others as well. Raquel has not actually DONE anything to hurt the group. She's chosen to hurt herself by ignoring what James really is. They shouldn't attack her, attack him.

James is an asshole loser who is given carte blanche to do whatever he wants because it brings drama. His butt should have been fired a long time ago but it won't be because he stirs the pot. Reminds me of Rinna on RHoBH which I do watch. 

Lala - see James, although prettier. I wonder if anyone will mention her fiance's feud with 50 cent. He's still washing out his underwear.

Katie looks awful. If she has a stylist, the stylist should be fired.