S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[haje]

I wish they had just faded to black after the kiss (just cause we've seen Maisie grow up on-screen so it's always going to feel a little weird) but for the most part, I really liked the Gendry/Arya stuff because Arya clearly has all the power in that relationship and it was nice to see two, consenting adults who are into each other (and not related) have a nice positive sex scene together cause god knows that seems rare on this show. I also super enjoy that Arya's form of flirting is talking about weapons and showing them off and Gendry is simultaneously scared of her and also into it. 

Honestly, I thought this was one of the best episodes they've had in ages. Some really great character and relationship moments which of course will just make the heartbreak in the next eps even worse. 

[checkmeboo]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

It was a Game of Thrones bottle episode.   They played it cheap this week, padding the hour with repetitive reunions and the Winterfell version of an Irish wake so they could funnel the budget into the upcoming battle.

This show prides itself on being unpredictable and refusing to pander to formula, but letting the clock run out on this episode before the battle begins was about as formulaic as it gets.  A cheap ploy. 

Ultimately another huge disappointment, right on the heels of what was previously the most disappointing episode in the series.  

Has everyone at Winterfell forgotten the enemy has a dragon now?   I didn't hear a word about strategy to defend Winterfell from the ice dragon -- or for that matter how to prevent the other two dragons from suffering the same fate as their fallen sibling.  Jon's big lecture -- they don't tire, they don't die, etc. -- made no mention that a dragon was even part of the equation. 

They sure are milking a lot of mileage out of Jon's birthright.   Big reveal in Season 7 episode 7: We learn John is a Targaryen.  Big reveal in Season 8 Episode 1: John learns he is a Targaryen.  Big reveal in Season 8 Episode 2: Dany learns John is a Targaryen.   

For a moment I wondered if Gendry might ask Arya to put on another face before having sex with her.

Just ugh to the whole thing, even the Shireen stand-in pulling on Davos's heart strings.  About as tropey as it gets.

Amen to all of this!!!  My biggest beef so far is that no one has acknowledged the fact the Night King has a freaking undead dragon yet, is just flat out lazy story telling.  In the too quick war council scene I don’t think it was even mentioned!

[Friendly kitty]

What a good episode ... Very kind, sweet, soulful and touching. It blows so warm from him ...
I liked everything, without exception. But it could not be otherwise. The whole episode is dedicated to love, friendship and reconciliation. A breather for spectators before a terrible battle.

I was pleased by the love that flared up between Arya and Jendry. True, memories of the first season flashed through my head ... The girl is ripe!

Sansa and Theon had a very warm hug. They survived a lot, both were in Ramsay captivity, the common grief of them would make an excellent pair. It is a pity that this will not happen.

Pleased with the love triangle with Brienne. She finally became a knight! Still, I want her to be with Jaime ... But Redhead is good too!
And what gatherings around the campfire were soulful with a beautiful song ...

But the final shot hints that this will be the end of it. In the next episode there will be many deaths ...

And the Ghost showed too little! John didn't even hug him! This is unforgivable !!!
 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Friendly kitty

[Machiabelly]

So if enough of the right people die, Arya and Gendry can jointly rule as the rightful heirs to the throne. I would be OK with that. 

I would also be OK with Ayra killing Cersei while wearing Neds face somehow. 

[Andromeda]

4 hours ago, dragonsbite said:

My initial thoughts:

1. Foreshadowing in Tyrion’s statement of killing Cersei as a WW?
2. Penis measuring between a puzzled Jaime and Tormund. Awesome.
3. I actually teared up when Jaime knighted Brienne. (And I won't clap for Tinkerbell nor cry for terms of endearment.)
4. Arya playing game of faces with Gendry to find out if he’s slept with anyone before. (Well, that's just
5. What does that song about Jenny foretell?

That song was all about ghosts and the dead,  which made my thoughts go to Ghost and nooooooo!  Please don't turn him into a dead dog. 

I loved this episode.  It all feels so epic.  So glad Jon told Dany instead of running the other way.  But when they heard the horn and raced to the battlements,  they exchanged a glance,  showing they're on the same page and ready to dfo the important thing first. 

[Traveller519]

After nearly two years since the last season aired, a season that was burning plot like, well.... the analogy here would be too on the nose,  it's been rather enjoyable to sit and let the characters interact. Sure some of it's overly goofy, but it let's us fall back in love with the characters. Unfortunately that likely means we're going to lose some next week, in the most heart wrenching  way.

I would really have enjoyed hearing what Bran and Tyrion discussed. I feel like Bran could have really worked the Three-eyed Raven powers to a sound strategy, or at least got him off the sidelines.

I LOVE that Brienne has gone from the reviled daughter of a Lord who was subject to outright bullying from her male peers and unintentional bullying from her own father, to a respected member of the seven Kingdoms. Holding the utmost respect not only the like of the Stark women, but three very different men for very different reasons, only one of which is truly sexual (though his respect is of her total offering). She has the acceptance she always craved but could never admit to.

[Friendly kitty]

10 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

That song was all about ghosts and the dead,  which made my thoughts go to Ghost and nooooooo!  Please don't turn him into a dead dog. 

I'm afraid this can not be avoided. John must make the dragon his faithful companion, on which he will then fly to kill KN. And for this, the Ghost will have to die. Maybe this will happen when he will save John in the next battle ....😥

Edited April 22, 2019 by Friendly kitty

[lorbeer]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Powerful moment between Sansa and Theon. Even Dany seemed struck by it.

Oh Jon. Timing is everything and you picked the wrong time. Dany is probably going to arrange for you not to survive the war.

I think she was kind of jealous that he cearly went back to fight for Sansa and not for her THE QUEEN. Just quicky 'hey there quennie good to see you' and then jump to those who really matter for him.

Yeah, I'm afraid she will do that.

5 hours ago, taurusrose said:

We saw Ghost!!!!!!!  I actually cheered.

WHEN?!! Oh gash did I miss it? 😞

[Lady S.]

Every Tormund moment is a treasure, but let's appreciate him ambushing Jon as Jon went to hug Edd and calling him "my little crow".

[mrspidey]

5 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Dany and Sansa.  Sansa wants to know what happens if they live through everything.  That's a line of demarcation that will prevent any friendship/genuine bond from ever truly developing.  Dany can subdue the North, but she doesn't want to do it that way (at this time) but Sansa wants the North Independent, henceforth and forevermore.  How does this kind of disagreement resolve?  I can't think of any way other than force. 

Assuming, they survive all of it: Dany and Jon married and as equal rulers. Jon rules the North (and the Riverlands), Dany gets the rest.  

[voiceover]

The things you pick up on a rewatch!

Gwendoline Christie's beaming, slightly timid, slightly triumphant smile after Jaime knights Brienne.

Gendry's expression after Arya groups those three dragonglass shots: there's a man who's found his mate.

Tyrion's rush to get out of his chair and watch his brother knight a woman.

Davos and the Hound: doing anything.  One was always a good man; one has had a sharper -- though less noticed -- redemption arc than Jaime Lannister.  Please let them slip through the newly discovered black hole and wind up on an 80s cop show.  I'd watch the hell outta that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The fact that so many people were uncomfortable seeing a 22 year old actress have a sex scene makes me all the more glad that they did it. Arya's not a little girl. She is an adult woman who chose to have sex. It's not icky or gross or inappropriate. Women are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. Funny how people were okay with Arya going to assassin school as a child and MURDERING PEOPLE but choosing to have sex the night before she might die is what's not cool.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

I think she was kind of jealous that he cearly went back to fight for Sansa and not for her THE QUEEN.

If I were to give the writers any credit (and I don't so I headcanon) I would say Dany seemed incredibly lonely this episode. It wasn't so apparent in last episode as it was in this one. But Grey Worm and Missandei feeling unwelcome and realizing that Westeros is not their home, never will be. They want to be where it's warm and with a beach. They are basically saying they don't intend to stick around Westeros once Dany gets the throne. Which would be a major loss for Dany. Then all these reunions between people of whom Dany doesn't know the history of because she wasn't in Westeros. Jon had plenty family reunions. All these families have recent history with each other. Theon came to Winterfell and addressed her as Queen but he didn't come to fight for her. He came for the Starks. She also saw Sansa in that scene not being the cold woman she had come to know. All these people have history and most of those people are not what they seem on first glance. But Dany is completely left out of it because she wasn't there. And then you have Jon avoiding her the whole episode and literally fleeing from her every time. She is always framed as 'alone' in those scenes by being the only one in the shot.

So I don't see it as jealousy. I see it more as 'Dany stands alone'. And it's in large part because those that are loyal to her don't really belong in Westeros and don't want to stay there. Those who are from Westeros have history with each other. History that is personal and which determines loyalties. And Dany is not really doing herself any favors by her single minded focus on the throne. Even if you don't mean it girl, learn to obfuscate, use charm or postpone topics rather than coming down with an iron hammer.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Smad

[BadAssRobinArryn]

6 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I've always had a soft spot for Theon. Why? Who knows... Sansa's reunion with him brought a tear to my eye. This character has gotten a pretty good redemptive arc and I am here for it. I hope he survives, helps Bran to survive and then heads south and kills his uncle.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but IMO Theon's redemption arc is much, much better done than Jaime's and Theon is also a more compelling character than Jaime.

That said, I loved basically everyone this episode. Great Episode. And I don't want to think about what's probably going to happen next week.

[thuganomics85]

For five seconds, Jaime Fucking Lannister actually had Dany and Sansa agreeing with each other about offing his ass.  The man knows how to bring people together!

Another episode that mainly seemed to be setting things up and allowing more character interactions before the first (?) big battle, but I didn't mind since I enjoyed seeing the character interact again.  It must be fun for a lot of these actors either getting to work with someone they haven't yet before or someone they haven't had a scene with in years.  It was great seeing the likes of Jaime/Tyrion (always one of my favorites), Jaime/Brienne, Tormund/Brienne, Tormund/Brienne/Jaime (hee!), Sansa/Theon the last of the Night's Watch together, Tyrion/Podrick, and so forth together again.  And the Bran/Jaime stuff was hilariously awkward as I hoped!  Should have known that Bran isn't even mad anymore, because that push made him... well, not be Bran anymore!  Oh, you crazy kid!

I'm glad Tyrion is realizing he has been fucking things up as Dany's Hand and hopefully he'll get it back together, but I really wouldn't be surprise if either Dany makes a new Hand soon, or shakes things up and makes a second hand or something to that nature that might be able to counter Tyrion's weaknesses.  I do think she was sincere though about wanting Tyrion to stay in the crypt because she didn't want to risk losing him in the battle, and not some kind of punishment.

Not surprised the Arya/Gendry hook-up ends up being the big talking point on the net.  I definitely get the weirdness as even though Maisie Williams is of age now, it just feels odd seeing her show the amount of skin that she did, but I think it makes sense for Arya wanting to have this moment with Gendry, since she might never get the chance to have sex with anyone; let alone him; again.

Brienne getting knighted was all kinds of awesome.

Love that Davos was apparently helping feed everyone during the wait.  He really is one of the truly decent characters still here.  Really hope that doesn't change in any kind of way.

Cool that they got a moment between Jorah and Lyanna Mormont as well.

I do wonder why no one brought up the fact that the Night King has his own ice dragon.

Jon already tells Dany the truth about his parentage, but of course the White Walkers show up before that talk can really begin!

Definitely think this episode was foreboding some major deaths next week (or whenever the battle happens.)  Cautiously, I think the "main" players are likely safe (the Starks, the Lannisters, Dany/Jon), but I think almost all of the secondary characters are fair game.  They certainly found the perfect set ups for a lot of them.  Missandei/Grey Worm talking about what they want to do after the war.  Theon still trying to repent for his misdeeds.  Brienne finally getting knighted.  Davos bringing up how he has been lucky to survive two big wars.  Dolorous Edd mentioning how he, Sam, and Jon are the last of the Night's Watch.  The conversation between The Hound and Beric.  And so many more.  Yeah, this is not going to end well for some!

[paigow]

18 minutes ago, Smad said:

Theon came to Winterfell and addressed her as Queen but he didn't come to fight for her. He came for the Starks.

Even though he got partial forgiveness from Jon, he has an unrepayable betrayal debt to the Starks...Dany needs to sit down with "HBO Bran" for all the previouslies so she can catch up...

[BadAssRobinArryn]

6 hours ago, steelyis said:

I fully expected Dany to deny it was true, but I did not expect her to jump three hundred miles over the incest part of her and Jon's relationship and be all about who gets the crown. What's a little incest compared to the Iron Throne, right? 

I thought it was in character and believable. Dany was probably raised with the idea, that incest within the Targaryen Family is something normal. The Targaryens practisized incest for generations. Dany was almost getting married to her brother.

[Coxfires]

There must have been an idiot chopping onions next to me when Jaime knighted Brienne...I was not expecting to be touched like that, but goddamn Gwendoline Christie killed it. Her smile at the end...That was everything.

There was so much in this episode, it was really heart-wrenching to realize so many of these people are hours away from their death. For all the complaints I can have about the writing these past seasons, I am still so so invested. I both can't wait and dread next episode. This really felt like the last goodbye.

[PWHCHCH]

Is it just me or was there a lot of ADR for this episode. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This whole calm before the storm last night before the world might end episode reminded me of the last episode of Buffy (where some of the characters slept together, some of them played D&D, some of them prepared for the next day's battle) and the last episode of Angel (Spike went to a poetry slam, Angel visited his son, Gunn went to the Teen Center, etc) where everyone was in a similar situation - they knew they would probably die the next day in battle, so it was interesting to see how each character chose to spend their last hours.

I loved Jaime knighting Brienne and I loved that most of the people in the room had seen her in action at some point and were so happy for her. I could have watched that room of people hanging out all night. I was waiting for Tormund to not so subtly suggest that Brienne celebrate her new knighthood by sleeping with him.

Sansa and Theon's reunion was so bittersweet. I agree that their shared trauma at the hands of Ramsay gives them a bond unlike any other. They understand each other in a way that no one else can. I was kind of surprised that of everyone in the Stark family, Sansa and Theon were the only two who chose to spend that evening together.

Sansa seemed a bit cold to Tyrion last week so it was nice to hear her say this week that he had been nothing but kind to her.

Lady Mormont! I hope she survives the battle just so I can hear her continuing to be salty with everyone. I'm glad that Jorah didn't press her when she insisted on fighting. Sam giving Jorah his father's sword was so sweet.

I can't blame Missandei and Grey Worm for wanting to get out of the North and back to a warm beach. No one else wants to talk to them or even acknowledge their presence, so why would they want to stay somewhere cold and snowy to be snubbed and ignored?

[Pestilentia]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This whole calm before the storm last night before the world might end episode reminded me of the last episode of Buffy

And all I could think of was The Battle of Helm's Deep.

[BooBear]

8 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I mentioned this in the other thread but I think this episode was an eye opener for Dany in that I think she thought people of the North were just naturally closed off and cold. It was a good dramatic turn for Dany to see how warm people can be with each other if they care about each other.  I think the warm reactions between Brienne/Jaime, Tyrion/Jaime, Brienne/Sansa, Sansa/Theon were just sort of surprising for Dany and gave her an insight on how much work she has to do to really be accepted into their hearts as ruler.

I thought this episode was an improvement from last week. It does feel like this episode and last one were part of the same thing. 

I think they fixed a lot of the problems.  How I see this is that Dany's battle this year will be with herself. Her identity for so long as been rightful heir to the crown but as she gets to know the people of the north things aren't working out for her. I see Dany's heart being changed. Not sure if that means that Dany will accept a co partnership with Jon or if she might choose to take a different role in leadership.  I saw this episode as key. It is difficult to war with good people up close. I feel like nothing has gone right for her in the North. Kind of reminds me of a valedictorian from a no name town thinking they are hot stuff heading off to Harvard and finding everyone else there so much more than them.

I think everyone was touched by Sansa because Sophie did such a great job emoting into the old Sansa that no one sees anymore.  I was a little caught off guard with Sansa wanting independence for the North. When has that ever been on the table before?  I can't see any ruler allowing it because then the North could challenge the south.  

[Sakura12]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The fact that so many people were uncomfortable seeing a 22 year old actress have a sex scene makes me all the more glad that they did it. Arya's not a little girl. She is an adult woman who chose to have sex. It's not icky or gross or inappropriate. Women are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. Funny how people were okay with Arya going to assassin school as a child and MURDERING PEOPLE but choosing to have sex the night before she might die is what's not cool.

It is telling how we are more comfortable with violence then sex.

Dany and Sansa were younger when they forced into marriages and raped. Arya's an adult and got to choose a partner she likes. She's the lucky one.

Yes her decision was because she could die, I would think most people would make the same decision if you had the knowledge that you might not live to see another day. I was surprised she was the only one. 

[DrSparkles]

4 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

...

I LOVE that Brienne has gone from the reviled daughter of a Lord who was subject to outright bullying from her male peers and unintentional bullying from her own father, to a respected member of the seven Kingdoms. Holding the utmost respect not only the like of the Stark women, but three very different men for very different reasons, only one of which is truly sexual (though his respect is of her total offering). She has the acceptance she always craved but could never admit to.

YES!!!!!!!! I cried big tears!

[GodsBeloved]

4 hours ago, Lady S. said:

Every Tormund moment is a treasure, but let's appreciate him ambushing Jon as Jon went to hug Edd and calling him "my little crow".

Next to Sansa and Theon, this was my favorite moment of the episode. And yes "my little crow" had me all smiles.

[CletusMusashi]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The fact that so many people were uncomfortable seeing a 22 year old actress have a sex scene makes me all the more glad that they did it. Arya's not a little girl. She is an adult woman who chose to have sex. It's not icky or gross or inappropriate. Women are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. Funny how people were okay with Arya going to assassin school as a child and MURDERING PEOPLE but choosing to have sex the night before she might die is what's not cool.

And if they just kissed and then faded away, the weird fan theories would overshadow the actual narrative. "That's not Gendry! Everyone knows Jaqen H'Gharr impersonated Arya so he could seduce Gendry, kill him, and steal his face!" "Arya didn't really do anything with Gendry, because Melisandre turned his penis into a frog!" "Gendry is actually a mer-man, like Varys!" We've got enough material that we're supposed to speculate about. Therefore, it was essential to the plot that Maise Williams flash her tuchis.

[GodsBeloved]

3 hours ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but IMO Theon's redemption arc is much, much better done than Jaime's and Theon is also a more compelling character than Jaime.

Not unpopular with me. I've never liked Jaime so there's that but I think Alfie Allen is one of the best actors on the show. I was pissed with Theon but I did see why he did what he did and could understand. And I always felt Theon was conflicted with what he did as opposed to Jamie.

And as I mentioned earlier, Theon finding the strength to save Sansa when he couldn't even find the strength to walk out of that cage when Yara came to get him sealed my love for Theon.

Edited April 22, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[paigow]

49 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

And all I could think of was The Battle of Helm's Deep.

Melisandre is Gandalf 2.0.......

[UNOSEZ]

I was a little miffed that of all the interactions.. None were really between the stark kids ( including Jongon)  many could die and they've been apart so long.. But now I'm hoping that what someone upthread posted is right... That they didn't have talks because this isn't goodbye from each other... I really hope that's the case.. Cuz I need Jon and Arya to talk about being a faceless man... I need ppl on the show to know who killed the Frey's... I want Jon and Bran to talk awkwardly some more... I'd like to see Dany and Arya speak... So hopefully this isn't the end... 

[lucindabelle]

I wasn’t squicked out by Arya af all. I relate to her- and I’m over 50 so itnisnt age. I do read (and write) ya, which may be a factor, but just curious if there’s a gender divide? Are men, who might feel dad-ish to her, more squicked than women? I know dads are never ever really at home with the idea of their little girls as sexual even when they are moms. It’s all lalalalala stork.

the tears in Briennes eyes and the smile that seemed to come unbidden!

For the first time I didn’t love Dany- her scene with Sansa seemed forced but maybe that’s because it was (Jorah told her to do it). She seemed to be using her “I am queen” voice too much.

 Hopefully that will change.

agree the ice dragon should have been mentioned.

[paigow]

33 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Yes her decision was because she could die, I would think most people would make the same decision if you had the knowledge that you might not live to see another day. I was surprised she was the only one. 

It was more like " I will not die a virgin" than just being horny....

[MissLucas]

I always loved the 'Blackwater' episode not because of all the battle scenes but because of all the scenes beyond the battlefield. Drunk Cersei handing out actually useful advice to Sansa was terrific. The impending doom was creating a particular vibe that made for great dialogue. No doubt this episode surpassed that several times.

Sansa sure gets the best reunion scenes. I wasn't prepared for getting THAT emotional when she was reunited with Jon and the same applies to the reunion with Theon. Sophie's a great hugger! I also liked Sansa immediately yielding to Brienne and I think that played a part in Danerys' following Ser Jorah's advice afterwards. The scene between her and Sansa was another highlight - a quick moment of bonding over height-challenged Jon - and then Sansa proving that she's a true Stark by not playing it safe and putting 'Independence for the North' to her 'to do later'-list. It also makes sense for her character to push in that direction, she's had it with the South. And kudos for whoever mentioned above that Ned would be impressed by her fierce love for the North.

Tormund's Wildling courting of Brienne was awesome and even better were Jaimie's reactions. And the knighting scene! All the feels!

As for those noticing a change in Grey Worm's physique. Jacob Anderson mentioned in an interview that he's got additional layers for his costume since they're now in the North and it's cold. (He also mentioned a discussion with the writers about Grey Worm's anatomy. He was a bit cagey but if I got it right the gist of it was that only the main wires have been cut.)

I was surprised when they cut away from the Tyrion-Bran conversation. I guess Tyrion got an update about Jon's family tree. But maybe there was more to it. It was the most intriguing thing of the episode for me.

The biggest prank they could pull on us now is that everybody survives the coming battle. But who am I kidding? My guess is that characters who still haven't reached the end of their bucket list will make it. But even that's debatable. It was also hard not to miss how many conflicts were hinted at in this episode that won't be resolved even if they manage to kill off the NK.

Add me to the list of those who think Viserion is somewhere pouting the ice-dragon equivalent of 'What am I, chopped liver???'

Edited April 22, 2019 by MissLucas

[UNOSEZ]

Melisandre has to show up next episode right..  I mean that's the reason she came back for the fight against the dead.. 

[Kanner]

9 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Didn't see that.  I don't think there is a Sansa vs Daenerys vibe in either woman's mind.

Jon is not stupid and I don't accept that.  There was no reason not to tell her.  I'm amazed that so many people prefer lies and deception to the truth.

I totally agree.  Plus it was not like he just told her out of nowhere. She brought of the Lyanna rape story and how that troubled her with the other stories she heard about her brother.  There was no way Jon was going to let her keep thinking those things.  If he waited after that conversation her reception would definitely be worse.  At the moment all we have is shock.  We will have to wait for the "processed" reaction.

[MarySNJ]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Based on how the show has been portraying the characters through 2 episodes:

- I don't feel like Jon is getting the "rightful king" edit.  If anything, he seems passive and sheepish, basically hiding out for most of the episode.  We see very little from his point of view.

- Dany seems to be getting a "ruler who needs to learn" edit.  She came in cold and distant and is trying to win people over/make people accept her.  She didn't just "OR ELSE" Sansa, as she seemed to imply that she would do in the last episode.  Instead she acted frustrated, but nothing more.  I think she will show her stuff in the battle to come and the ice will melt (pun intended) between her and the North.

- It will probably end with Jon renouncing the crown, Dany taking it, but then Dany marrying Jon so they both get to rule anyway.

I’m certainly not the only one who’s said this but, I do think the fact that Jon is the character who doesn’t aspire to a higher title is why he keeps getting higher titles thrust upon him. Jon is singularly focused on defeating the Night King and protecting his people, and then out of nowhere he has to digest the truth of this parentage. 

I completely agree that Dany is the ruler who continues to learn. Every time she goes somewhere or encounters skeptics, she is doubted and distrusted, and so far she’s managed to prove herself to those who doubted her. She’ll have to do it again during this fight. My question is, what happens after? I think Jon’s revelation was as much of a shock to her as it was to him. At the moment, the encroaching enemy gives them time to focus on the real crisis and deal with personal/dynastic problems later - assuming they survive. 

I would be happy with your solution. If there’s still a kingdom, and there is still a monarchy after all is said and done, Jon and Dany could rule together like William and Mary. I still hope that there will be a parliamentary type of government in which all the Kingdoms have nobles advising the crown. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by MarySNJ
Dropped a word

[One Tough Cookie]

Granted, I haven't read all the post but I think Sansa's reaction had to do somewhat with the act that he rescued, at his own peril, Sansa from the Boltons.

Could someone give Davos my phone number?

[Bryce Lynch]

I really liked the private talk between Dany and Sansa.  They both put their cards on the table and found a lot of common ground.  I liked how they were interrupted before Dany could fully process and respond to Sansa implying the the North should be independent.  Basically the same thing happened after Jon told Dany about his true identity.   

I loved Sansa sticking up for Tyrion and reminding the Queen that Cersei had fooled her as well as Tyrion.   This was Sansa's best episode in a long time.   

[dragonsbite]

5 hours ago, checkmeboo said:

Amen to all of this!!!  My biggest beef so far is that no one has acknowledged the fact the Night King has a freaking undead dragon yet, is just flat out lazy story telling.  In the too quick war council scene I don’t think it was even mentioned!

In the "War Council" scene, they did talk about the dragons being too busy to protect Bran. And I'm pretty sure that Jon said "we" when referring to the dragons -- so I assumed that everyone knew he would be a-dragonback for the fight.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It is telling how we are more comfortable with violence then sex.

Dany and Sansa were younger when they forced into marriages and raped. Arya's an adult and got to choose a partner she likes. She's the lucky one.

Yes her decision was because she could die, I would think most people would make the same decision if you had the knowledge that you might not live to see another day. I was surprised she was the only one. 

Exactly. We saw Dany and Sansa raped and humiliated on their wedding nights. Arya got to CHOOSE to have sex for the first time and she got to decide with whom. That alone makes her sex scene much more empowering/healthy/positive than many of the sex scenes on this show, but somehow people are squeamish because she used to be a child. You know, a decade ago.

What about all of the other child actresses who were fortunate enough to have careers after they outgrew kiddie roles? Is Reese Witherspoon having a sex scene icky and gross and OMG PASS THE EYE BLEACH because she started out acting as a kid? What about Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Anna Paquin, Drew Barrymore, Nicole Eggert, Anna Chlumsky, Christina Ricci, Alyssa Milano, Hayden Panettiere, Amber Tamblyn, Kirsten Dunst, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Claire Danes, Shannen Doherty, Emmy Rossum, Elizabeth Berkeley, Eliza Dushku, and Jennifer Love Hewitt? Are all of their sex scenes gross because they were child actors? And is it just girls who were child actors who are not allowed to grow up and have sex scenes? Are you okay with Leonardo DiCaprio, Christian Bale, Ed Furlong, Shia LaBeouf, Mark-Paul Gosselaar, Neil Patrick Harris, Johnny Galecki, Seth Green, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Joshua Jackson, and Tobey Maguire doing sex scenes as adults?

[TaraS1]

Arya has always been one of my least favorite characters so I was both weirded out and completely disinterested in the sex scene.  I understood it, I just didn't care about it.

I adore Davos, and that scene with the little Shireen clone had me welling up.  The thought of all these helpless little kids and old people potentially dying in the crypts really got to me.

And as a Dany fan, I hope the show isn't going for "She's just power hungry and mad!" because I don't see that in her.  I just hope she gets her Throne in the end.

I love you, Ser Brienne!

[seacliffsal]

I was so glad that there was some humor in this episode as just knowing that there was foreshadowing/foreboding in every interaction and conversation saddened me so much.  Being able to laugh/smile a bit was a relief from the overwhelmingness of what is sure to come (no spoilers-just based on the oncoming battle with the dead).

I was also so happy to get even a flash of Ghost as I am much more a fan of the direwolves than of the dragons.  And, I hope that we see Nymeria and her wolf pack in the upcoming episodes along with more Ghost.  When we are predicting who will sit on the Iron Throne, maybe we are missing the subtle hints that the direwolves will rule all....

I just want to put this out there and expect it to be a really unpopular thought-but what if the northern girls weren't racist as much as "stranger-dangerist"?  The environment is quite tense as everyone is preparing for war, two armies that are allied with Winterfell just entered and there are dragons flying around.  All of the northerners are experiencing things they never even imagined before-and then two of the strangers (one of which is in military uniform) enter into a fairly secluded area where the two young frightened girls are hiding out.  Maybe it's more that there are unknown adults (one of whom belongs to an army other than a northern army) near to them and they are just scared of everything.  Yes, the scene reads as racist, but I would like to give the very young girls the benefit of doubt if it's at all possible.

[terrymct]

I loved this episode.  No action, but it brought us and the characters to the point that we're ready-ish for the battle.  

- Brienne.  I had tears in my eyes, too.  She's always been a knight in all but the tap on the shoulders.  Now she's one officially.   Bravo, this was perfect.  She was in a circle of people who are all accomplished in their own ways and they gave her the respect she's earned over and over again.  It was good that both of her potential "-ships" were in the room.  I loved when Tormond was outraged that women can't be knights.  I think in this scene he became more of a realistic future partner for Brienne that he's been thus far.   He's not just after giant babies who will take over the kingdom.  He respects her.   Then there's Jaime.  He and Brienne have a complex interesting relationship.  For a long time, they were the only two who "got" each other.  Jaime talked honestly to her and pretty much no one else.  Tyrion at times, but not as freely.   She was honest with him, too, and saw beyond the Kingslayer title and his family prestige.  

- Dany.   Oh bless her heart, she's good at being a conqueror and not a ruler.  We saw that in the slaver cities, too, in various ways.   What kind of education did she get with a crazy brother who was looking to trade her for leverage?  She can read and write, of course, and has learned to lead an army by trial and error.  She knows very little about Westeros other than her family history.  She also has been incapable for the most part of getting past the single goal of sitting on the Iron Throne.  Ok, you're butts on the throne.  What does your rule look like?  What relationship do you have with each of the kingdoms?  Do you know what each of those kingdoms want and need?  Do you know about the existing relationships between the various houses and their recent history?  Cersei does in her evil way.   Jon Snow does in his emo way.  Dany does not.  She knows "bend the knee" enforced by the accident of her birth and the might she swings with her dragons.  A ruler, as opposed to a conqueror, would have talked to Sansa about the North and learned.   Nope, Dany is "my way or else....".   It's clear that she's coming to a point where what she'd sacrifice for Westeros will become important.  The writers have dropped enough big fat hints about that all over the place.  Jon would sacrifice all.  Dany doesn't know Westeros or it's people.  She just knows she should be ruling the place.  Will she sacrifice anything?

- Theon.  Man, I've disliked him since the beginning when he was an arrogant little pr$%k then his evil insecure stage then the torture then the sniveling.  He's back, redeemed himself in the eyes of both Yara and Sansa.  Volunteering to protect Bran was brave and probably foolish in that he and his men are likely to die.   Perhaps, though, he'll use some of that time warp light speed magic that allowed him to travel from Kings Landing up to Winterfell in just a few days.  Then again, Jaime apparently used the same worm hole to travel.  Bron is likely in there right now.

- Jorah.   He showed who he could have been as a leader of the Mormonts when he advised Dany had he not sold those men into slavery.   Tyrion is the better choice for the kind of landscape level advice she needs now.  Jorah was absolutely right.  He was also right that she needed to go talk to Sansa and bury the hatchet.  I'm positive that Jorah didn't tell Dany to fall back into her "you must submit now" mode without talking to Sansa about what ruling the North might or should look like.   Sam giving Jorah his family sword was wonderful.

- Sam.  I was glad Sam stood up for himself and his accomplishments when talking to his Brothers.  He HAS done a lot and has grown since we first met him.   It was sweet that he told Jorah that Jeor Mormont was like a father to him and helped him.

- Lady Mormont.  I love that character to bits and I'm glad she had an interaction with Jorah.  I loved seeing her walk proudly into the group of her Bear Island men and them turn to follow her.

- Arya.   Her new staff with the dragon glass ends makes sense.  It's a version of the pole she learned to fight with in Bravos.  Yeah, we saw Arya and Guidry coming a mile away but maybe not in exactly that way.  I'd forgotten that he knows he's Baratheon's bastard.  I suspect that Arya may share that info at a critical point.  I'm still hoping that Guidry ends up on the throne with Arya as his queen just for the sheer left-field-ness of the whole thing.  

- Jon.  He could have started his conversation with Dany by telling her that the info he's about to relay doesn't affect his allegiance to her, but he didn't.  I don't think he's processed the information to that point, but it would have saved some trouble.  Of course Dany's first thought is that Bran and Sam are lying.  That's a reasonable emotional outburst.  Now she has to move beyond that and start thinking this through.  It still hasn't seemed to dawn on either of them that they're fairly close family members now.

- Grey worm and Missandei are wonderful together.  I hope they both survive and end up in a lovely little village on a beach in her home country.

- Davos.  He's one of my favorite characters.  His scene with the little girl with the scar on her face had me tearing up again.  I also loved that he and Gilly both were helping and in ways that make sense for who they are.   

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

I thought it was in character and believable. Dany was probably raised with the idea, that incest within the Targaryen Family is something normal. The Targaryens practisized incest for generations. Dany was almost getting married to her brother.

Targaryens brothers and sisters often married (Dany's parents were brother and sister).  So an aunt/nephew relationship probably wouldn't seem that icky to her.  By Targaryen standards, it is practical a mixed marriage. 

I agree that Dany's reaction was believable.  She was understandably skeptical about Jon's story.  I think she trusted him, but didn't know if his sources were reliable.  By the end she seemed to believe it, but then the white walkers arrived.  It will be interesting to see how she reacts if her and Jon both survive the battle.  

[Drogo]

The only problem I have with Arya's sex scene is that her face afterwards was very mehh/disappointed. 

I guess due to 7 seasons of building it up in her head.

[Bali]

10 hours ago, Advance35 said:

The only character guaranteed to live past next week is Cersei Lannister.  How you like dem apples?

I hate, loathe, detest and despise them apples. I just want to see her DIE!

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Exactly. We saw Dany and Sansa raped and humiliated on their wedding nights. Arya got to CHOOSE to have sex for the first time and she got to decide with whom. That alone makes her sex scene much more empowering/healthy/positive than many of the sex scenes on this show, but somehow people are squeamish because she used to be a child. You know, a decade ago.

What about all of the other child actresses who were fortunate enough to have careers after they outgrew kiddie roles? Is Reese Witherspoon having a sex scene icky and gross and OMG PASS THE EYE BLEACH because she started out acting as a kid? What about Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Anna Paquin, Drew Barrymore, Nicole Eggert, Anna Chlumsky, Christina Ricci, Alyssa Milano, Hayden Panettiere, Amber Tamblyn, Kirsten Dunst, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Claire Danes, Shannen Doherty, Emmy Rossum, Elizabeth Berkeley, Eliza Dushku, and Jennifer Love Hewitt? Are all of their sex scenes gross because they were child actors? And is it just girls who were child actors who are not allowed to grow up and have sex scenes? Are you okay with Leonardo DiCaprio, Christian Bale, Ed Furlong, Shia LaBeouf, Mark-Paul Gosselaar, Neil Patrick Harris, Johnny Galecki, Seth Green, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Joshua Jackson, and Tobey Maguire doing sex scenes as adults?

I think it is that a) While Williams is 22, I think the character is younger than that.  b) Since fans watched Maise Williams grow up on screen, it is sort of like watching your little sister have sex.  c) While she really isn't a child, much of the audience still perceives her that way, and normal people have a healthy aversion to children having sex.   

[Constantinople]

Quote

SANSA: You're right. We can't trust him. He attacked my father in the streets. He tried to destroy my house and my family, the same as he did yours.
JAIME: Do you want me to apologize? I won't. We were at war. Everything I did, I did for my house and my family. I'd do it all again.

I didn't expect Jaime to be executed, or even punished, but someone in the room should have pointed out that Jaime was a member of the Kingsguard when he attacked Ned in the streets of King's Landing. Any dispute between the Starks and the Lannisters was no business of his, nor should he have abandoned the Kingsguard to join the Lannister army.

And if Jaime is getting credit for saving Sansa by sending Brienne on her way, he should also get a huge debit for fathering 3 children by Cersei.  How many tens of thousands of people died because of that?

[terrymct]

I forgot to mention something I really liked in the scene where Theon arrives in front of Sansa and Dany.   He gives his speech about wanting to defend Winterfell and asks Sansa's permission.  The big hug.  Theon and Sansa get misty eyed.  I got misty eyed.

Check out Dany watching that.  Uh huh, Dragon girl.  No one in Westeros other than those you brought with you (primarily Jorah and the slaves you freed, Tyrion is more complex) feel any sort of dedication to you like you just saw there.    They don't know you.  They have no emotional investment in you.  You're an old rumor, the living extension of a story from the bad old days.   They need your army and your dragons.   Other than that, you're nothing to them.  I wish she'd realize that and start to think about how to establish herself.

[DrSpaceman]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

It was a Game of Thrones bottle episode.   They played it cheap this week, padding the hour with repetitive reunions and the Winterfell version of an Irish wake so they could funnel the budget into the upcoming battle.

This show prides itself on being unpredictable and refusing to pander to formula, but letting the clock run out on this episode before the battle begins was about as formulaic as it gets.  A cheap ploy. 

Ultimately another huge disappointment, right on the heels of what was previously the most disappointing episode in the series.  

Has everyone at Winterfell forgotten the enemy has a dragon now?   I didn't hear a word about strategy to defend Winterfell from the ice dragon -- or for that matter how to prevent the other two dragons from suffering the same fate as their fallen sibling.  Jon's big lecture -- they don't tire, they don't die, etc. -- made no mention that a dragon was even part of the equation. 

They sure are milking a lot of mileage out of Jon's birthright.   Big reveal in Season 7 episode 7: We learn John is a Targaryen.  Big reveal in Season 8 Episode 1: John learns he is a Targaryen.  Big reveal in Season 8 Episode 2: Dany learns John is a Targaryen.   

For a moment I wondered if Gendry might ask Arya to put on another face before having sex with her.

Just ugh to the whole thing, even the Shireen stand-in pulling on Davos's heart strings.  About as tropey as it gets.

pretty much mirrors what I think as well.  These last two episodes IMO have been the worst of the whole series. 

Hopefully the remaining 4 wrap this stuff up like we all anticipate and are full of the action, adventure and type of storywriting we have expected from this show.  If so these episodes are just a blip on the screen in an overall epic series. 

But if they continue with dragging this out painfully to the very end down to seeing everyone take a heartfelt last piss with each other, this could be as groan inducing as the HIMYM last season. 

And that was my thought as well, this was a GOTs bottle episode. 

Hadn't thought of Gendry telling her to put on a new face.....that's funny

Edited April 22, 2019 by DrSpaceman

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Dany's whole thing has been that she's the last Targ and the rightful heir. Not sure why Jon chose that moment to inform her that he's her competition. Let's face it, he's never been smart. Bless his heart.

Not sure why everyone thinks Theon is a goner next week. I think they are setting up a few characters to be heroes in these battles (Jamie, Brienne, Theon). Notice how no one else wanted the job of defending Bran from the Night King, or pointed out that Theon has betrayed many houses in that room in the past. Is he really the best person for the job? I guess we will all find out.

I think Theon will die protecting Bran, but who knows..  

Good point about Theon not being the best choice for such an important job.  Will he behave heroically, or have another Reek flashback and run away?  I doubt the latter will happen, but it would realistically be a strong possibility.