S09.E16: The Storm

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.03.31

Quote

In the aftermath of an overwhelming loss, the communities brave a ferocious blizzard.  As one group deals with an enemy from within, another is forced to make a life or death decision.

MOD REMINDER:

This thread is for discussion of the episode.  Not spoilers from elsewhere, what happened in the comics, or news of cast comings and goings that HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET.  If you didn't see it happen in the episode onscreen, it doesn't belong here and will be removed.

[tiredofwork]

The absolute worse season ender in the 9 yrs this has been on the air.

[xaxat]

Good to know that a zombie apocalypse is the answer to global climate change. 

[Pixiebomb]

That was a really boring season finale. More like a mid season filler. They should have ended it last week. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Quite the magical winter storm, perfectly serviced the plot.

[nodorothyparker]

The season six cliffhanger will always go down as the worst for me, but let's face it that this show doesn't have the best track record for sticking the landing.  People were pretty upset last year at the kumbaya never mind the million times I threatened to kill you ending to the great Savior war too.

Sure, the Worst Blizzard Ever was goofy as all get out but it did make for some different visuals that we haven't already seen a million times.  Bonus for throwing us an icicle walker kill.

[mxc90]

That was a season finale?

After Alpha is finished getting whipped, the writers should be next line to get theirs, and I'm last to be punished (with both arms extended proudly)for watching this lousy mess.

Chris will have to go the extra mile to sell this one on "Talking Dead" .

Edited April 1, 2019 by mxc90

[Yodabeesh]

A very anti-climactic ending. I hoped for a continuation of the previous episode, but the ball was dropped on that one. Instead they went with Washington’s Crossing/Game of Thrones themed show which could have been a random mid-season episode. See you in October, TWD!

[FawnLeibowitz]

THAT was the finale?! How was that episode any different than any other? I don't think I can watch another season of this.

[AngelaHunter]

So, that was amazingly boring and dreary. A huge, Arctic blizzard (even though there was no vapour from anyone's breath) yet most of them couldn't be bothered even buttoning their coats or pulling their hoods up. Lydia, oh, Lydia, has anyone seen Lydia?

They couldn't leave Negan to freeze in his cell, in case Michonne found out and pitched a hissy fit. Can't harm Negan, but I guess it worked out since it seemed he was the only one who gave enough of a shit to go after The Brat. 

Eugene rattles off jargon, everyone talks and talks and talks, mainly in parables, Carol weeps and mourns Prince Henry, the Late Unlamented Heir to the Throne and giant PITA (although I must say the drawing of him was super duper!) Lydia wants to die but can't. Asks Carol to kill her. Carol can't? As if. She had no problem shooting a little girl in the back of the head, but whatever.

It snows some mores. It's cold enough to freeze a pond all the through, but still not cold enough for vapour breath. Negan hurts his leg somehow rescuing Judith, pulls his coat off in the raging storm - who does he think he is, Sylvester Stallone in "Cliffhanger"?

Everyone walks and walks. How tedious, but I finally get my wish with the frozen, statue-zombies. Amazing how their skulls just shattered like candy glass. Oh, well. 

Zeke: "The last few months have been difficult for Carol and I."  I'd really expect royalty to have better grammar. Tsk, Zeke.

Cozy scene in the bedroom with the rapist and Michonne. Seems all is forgiven and now he's a  good guy. Michonne says so. 

The end.

[Yakima]

I've watched this show from the beginning but this episode did it for me;  I'm done.  What in the hell are the writers thinking?

[mightysparrow]

I hope Ms. Kang didn't purchase a house in Atlanta.

Won't it be wonderful if Maggie comes back and she discovers that her husband's murderer is a hero, that everyone has to take a minute to sit and chat?  Maybe she's pull up a chair and talk about being a single mother with the man who made her one.

Zeke's better off.  Carol is worse than sickle cell anemia to a Black man on TWD.  Michonne's single and maybe between the two of them, they can find someone who knows something about Black hair.

Carol and Lydia deserve each other.  If Daryl has any sense at all, he'll run back into the woods.  Or go find Connie.

[shanndee]

Well, that was...an episode. 

The only bright spots for Hubby and I were the Carol/Daryl scenes. I know that ship will never sail, but that doesn't mean that I can't want it! 🙂

I also came around on Lydia a little. At least she has a tiny bit of depth (and the actress can sell a scene).

But overall? Meh. 

[itsjustme]

I know we suspend belief with this whole show and zombies etc but this blizzard in Virginia that lasted for days and ended in maybe 3 inches was hard to swallow.

[tennisgurl]

I still cant believe that THIS was the season finale. It really felt like any old episode, and the cliffhanger was just...so what? Oh wow, a person exists on the radio! I mean, we know there are other people around, so we can assume that someone has a radio as well. Not that big of a deal, guys. Its no "They dont know who they're fucking with."

While the random winter blizzard was super random (and I love how it seemed to totally miss The Whispers) it did lead to a lot of interesting visuals, like the ice zombies freezing and coming out of the snow, and the icicle kill, and the cinematographers actually seemed to be having some fun again. At least it was something different, which is always good to see on this show. 

Lydia has grown on me. If we have to have an angsty teen, at least she can act, and her angst actually makes sense. It sucks that Henry died, but I dont miss him much as a character. The worst thing about his death, to me, is that it apparently led to Carol and Zeke breaking up. Ouch. 

So this is how we start on the Negan redemption train. Gross, fucking spare me. I feel like the show is just desperate to keep his nasty ass around, so now they just want us to forget about all of the awful things that he and his people did. Look, he has a cute kid, and a puppy! You like him now, audience! Just forget all that other stuff! How he beat Glenn and Abe to death and left their brains all over their family and friends, leaving Maggie a widow and single mom, how he forced women to be in his creepy harem, how he was the reason that Sasha died, how he and his goons have killed, tortured, and terrorized countless people. And not to mention the biggest victims...us, the audience, who were forced to listen to his god awful speeches about piss and dicks and killing people for what seemed to be literal EONS for awhile there. Well show, I do not forget. Damn it, I see four lights! THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!

[maystone]

Well. Some of the snow scenes had lovely lighting. Cassady McClincy (I had to look it up) is a good addition to the cast as Lydia; I liked her scene contemplating suicide by ice-walker, and she can hold her own with Melissa.

I thought the most positive thing about the episode was the Daryl/Carol/Zeke interactions. Carol thinks that Ezekiel is blaming Daryl for Henry's death, when he's actually jealous of Carol and Daryl's relationship. And, OK, probably also blaming Daryl for Henry's death. That look Zeke threw back at C & D walking close together - yeah, he thinks he's losing her to Daryl. I also liked that Carol didn't just automatically revert to Death Mom, and that she's searching for the best way to be this bereaved Carol. And I really love how the relationship between Carol and Daryl is deepening and maturing. I still don't see them hooking up, but I just love the way they are around each other.

As for the great Virginia blizzard - has no one in that production staff ever actually lived up north?! Daryl should have lost at least part of his ears from frostbite - just for starters. Button your damn coats! Cover your hands and heads! And stop leaving you poor horses to die!!

At least Dog made it out alive.

[Iguessnot]

8 minutes ago, maystone said:

Well. Some of the snow scenes had lovely lighting. Cassady McClincy (I had to look it up) is a good addition to the cast as Lydia; I liked her scene contemplating suicide by ice-walker, and she can hold her own with Melissa.

I thought the most positive thing about the episode was the Daryl/Carol/Zeke interactions. Carol thinks that Ezekiel is blaming Daryl for Henry's death, when he's actually jealous of Carol and Daryl's relationship. And, OK, probably also blaming Daryl for Henry's death. That look Zeke threw back at C & D walking close together - yeah, he thinks he's losing her to Daryl. I also liked that Carol didn't just automatically revert to Death Mom, and that she's searching for the best way to be this bereaved Carol. And I really love how the relationship between Carol and Daryl is deepening and maturing. I still don't see them hooking up, but I just love the way they are around each other.

As for the great Virginia blizzard - has no one in that production staff ever actually lived up north?! Daryl should have lost at least part of his ears from frostbite - just for starters. Button your damn coats! Cover your hands and heads! And stop leaving you poor horses to die!!

At least Dog made it out alive.

Carol said that Zeke is blaming Daryl but he's really afraid to blame her.

[walnutqueen]

So, I've been complaining about black screens (i,e, shot in the dark) forever.  Now I get grey screens (i.e. shot in a "blizzard").  Along with "shot in a fog" (Bye, Jesus), I am beginning to sense a trend ...

Pookie & Carol "get" each other.  

I am sorry we did not see Carol cutting off that awful wig hair and going Terminus-ator on the Whisperers.

[diebartdie]

I'm just going to leave this here

Quote

Sanctuary had a blast furnace. Sanctuary also had a bunch of enclosed rooms with heavy, steel doors. It only makes sense to sit in the giant open area where all the broken windows are.

[FortKnox]

Ok, they've been living in that area for about 7, 8 years in show time right? So, is the first time it's snowed since they've been there?

Because, the people of Alexandria were very ill prepared to handle the snow, like this was the first time it's happened.

[maystone]

2 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Carol said that Zeke is blaming Daryl but he's really afraid to blame her.

Oh, I know she said that. I think she feels guilty about Henry and thinks that Zeke should blame her, and I think that her guilt and grief are blinding her to the fact that Zeke is really not happy about how close she is to Daryl, especially when he's grieving, too. I just think the two of them are not really hearing each other, and that's an interesting dynamic.

[mightysparrow]

1 minute ago, maystone said:

Oh, I know she said that. I think she feels guilty about Henry and thinks that Zeke should blame her, and I think that her guilt and grief are blinding her to the fact that Zeke is really not happy about how close she is to Daryl, especially when he's grieving, too. I just think the two of them are not really hearing each other, and that's an interesting dynamic.

Zeke is probably upset that she's turning to Daryl at this time when BOTH of them are grieving.  It seems like Zeke's pain and grief doesn't count as much as Carol's never-ending sorrow, but he lost a child too.

[Iguessnot]

There is no excuse for Negan's presence but there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm just going to enjoy the snarky baby daddy jokes.

I wished the show had modified Eugene's speech. I like Eugene but I dread the dialogue.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

My reaction for this hot (or I guess you could say cold) mess:

[Boofish]

The best part about this episode was seeing Daryl smile for the first time since the Season 2 finale. 

[BellyLaughter]

OMG so boring..... is it terrible that I too found Negan’s snark about the baby daddys to be the highlight.... 

what.is.happening 

[Iguessnot]

7 minutes ago, maystone said:

Oh, I know she said that. I think she feels guilty about Henry and thinks that Zeke should blame her, and I think that her guilt and grief are blinding her to the fact that Zeke is really not happy about how close she is to Daryl, especially when he's grieving, too. I just think the two of them are not really hearing each other, and that's an interesting dynamic.

She sensed something when Zeke followed Daryl and even asked Daryl about it, so she I think she recognizes an insecurity that Zeke has with Daryl 

[mightysparrow]

I don't think enough focus was put on the fall of The Kingdom.  King Ezekiel is a king without a kingdom now and it's tragic because he (and Jerry) kept that place going for such a long time.  He also managed to keep the Saviours at bay during Negan's reign of terror.  How is King Ezekiel feel, living in Alexandria with Negan given some sort of freedom.  Negan and the Saviours gunned down most of Ezekiel's warriors, which is part of the reason The Kingdom failed.

It's clear that Kang is more interested in focusing on mopey teenagers, bratty little girls and redeeming a monster but there are other stories.  Maybe the show would be a bit more interesting if they utilized some of the humongous cast, instead of shoving the same old characters down our throat over and over again.

[catrox14]

Good grief. That was boring. And fuck this Negan redemption bullsht.  Honestly, if Negan just kidnapped Judith , I would be fine with that and then they can just go be on their own show.

And it's definitely confirmed that Judith is Lori's child with her just running off like Carl did. 

I can't believe that was a season finale...it was barely an episode. 

Is this TWD's attempt to create White Walkers?  You are not Game of Thrones show.  Just stop it.

[TrininisaScorp]

Damn them.  I was lulled into a false sense of security after 3-4 nicely handled episodes.  This was not good.  It was boring,  didn't give me anything good, and the look/feel was ugly (all grey).  They should have just ended the season on Sadiq's speech.  That would have been more affecting to me.

I love JDM.  Seeing him pop back onto Supernatural for the 300th episode reminded me how much I like him.  Negan, of course, is a hard no for me.  He is beyond redemption for me, so putting him in situations that he has to be heroic literally doesn't move me at all. 

[heisenberg]

I am just 5 minutes in (I'll be back) and already I feel like this:

[Iguana]

Negan can rescue all the stupid kids and cute dogs left in the zombie apocalypse, but it won’t change who he is, what he did or justify his continued existence. But that doesn’t look like the show runner feels the same. Next season seems destined to be Negans redemption arc. Oh goody. 

Clearly no one on the show has actually been in a snow storm or dealt with actual winter weather. It takes days of freezing temperatures before a river will ice up at all, much less thick enough to walk on. If it was cold enough for  zombiesicles then exposed human skin should have been frost bitten in about 5 minutes. And the fireplace flue failure at Alexandria should never have happened.  Because these people are supposed to be the smart survivors not the idiots who would ignore  basic maintenance of their homes for the upcoming winter months. 

And if the Kingdom refugees were just going to abandon their horses and mules anyway, they actually had a whole lot more than just a days worth of food at the Sanctuary. Just saying. 

[spiderpig]

OK - I'm only halfway in watching the DVR, but this is the candidate winner for the dumbest episode evah.  I should've known when I saw Angela Kang's credit as writer.

Need more wine to get through this ep.

[Gobi]

I finally was able to understand what the voice on the radio said at the end:

Spoiler

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine!"

[sigmaforce86]

There was some good; there's always something good.  Wasn't much though, for a finale it was a pretty boring trudging episode.  I liked Judith's scolding of Neegan coming around "Your leg looks like shit"..."Language Miss Grimes".  And when Lydia asked Carol to kill her Grandma Sigma (who is usually confused and only follows half the plot) turned to us and said she can't, it's winter and there's no flowers.  And Jerry's attempt to rename Hilltop!

The writers tried to build some suspense but after the pike-head massacre of last week there's no way we were going to believe anyone from the caravan except maybe, possibly a red-shirt or two was going to die.  What was annoying and confusing was the timeline.  The Kingdom was in disrepair, the balcony where Ezekial announced the start of the fair looked to be half gone and some of the buildings looked burnt when they left so we wonder how long has it been?  Then we get that info from Zeke and Carol; Henry has been dead "a few months".  So with no background or explanation we went in 2-3 months from a fair with precious resources being used to build booths and make freaking candy apples to a crumbling burnt infrastructure?  Too bad they skipped over it because that could have been a pretty good story.   Then it seems like another time jump without explanation - Alpha and Beta are there with no snow visible but the clue is she says they've had "time away".  So again we're supposed to assume that a few months have passed and it's Spring I guess.   There are always a few viewers that don't get that plot but you know a show is doing a bad job of making things clear or even slightly obvious when a majority of the people on boards like this or discussing an episode think that instead of a time jump that they just screwed up and the Whispers camp was magically snow free (which could still be the case who knows).   

[mxc90]

April fool's arrived a day early!

[Mu Shu]

The camera and lighting were beautiful.  They stole the overhead shots from 31 days of night, though. They stole the winter storm from The Long Winter by Laura Ingalls Wilder, sans zombies.

lydia is a good addition.  And I’m glad Carol broke up with that dweeby king.  The snow fight at the end was good.

This Kang lady really can’t write for shit, or the actors she’s working with can’t act.  I’m sorry but Michonne has been awful for the past two seasons.  They need to keep her from Negan, because she can’t work a scene with him.

Now that damn Elpha, getting whipped with sticks, she’s good.  I’m not going to enjoy her demise.  

[blueiris]

8 hours ago, mxc90 said:

That was a season finale?

After Alpha is finished getting whipped, the writers should be next line to get theirs, and I'm last to be punished (with both arms extended proudly)for watching this lousy mess.

Chris will have to go the extra mile to sell this one on "Talking Dead" .

No he doesn't. I haven't watched Talking for the past two weeks. Cause when you stick another show in there I'm never going to watch, I'm passed out by 11.  Work night  for us regular people. 

[Morrigan2575]

For a talky episode i thought this was pretty entertaining.  Lots of good character moments between Carol/Lydia, Carol/Daryl and hell even Negan/Michonne.

I don't like Negan and i don't want him redeemed and part of the team but, JDM is freaking charismatic and entertaining as hell.  So i can't help but, be entertained by Negan.  The one thing they writers have done right is that even though they keep coming up with excuses to keep him alive and quite honestly after a 5 year time jump, killing him now doesn't really work for me.  However the adults don't act like he's a good guy or they like him.  They're constantly annoyed and snarky with him.

There was also some really nice suspense, I loved the scene of them crossing the frozen lake/pond whatever.  And the scenes of the walkers coming out of the snow were awesome.  I had to suspend disbelief with the whole frozen tundra/blizzard thing but, it wasn't too hard, we're in a climate crisis right now.  Seattle and AZ got more snow this winter than NJ so it's not out of the realm of possibility that VA would get hit with a blizzard.  

All in all, a good episode, not sure it makes for a great season finale but, that's happened to a few shows i've watched over the years where for whatever reason the season finale which is usually action packed ended up being a bit of a "boring" episode.  I wasn't bored with this episode though, it just wasn't the normal action/violence we've come to expect for the "big" episodes

[queenbee24]

I feel like I wasted an hour and 10 minutes of my life. Lots of buildup for nothing. Oh it's so scary we're going to go through Alpha's territory! Scary scary scary, snow snow snow the end. Frustrating. Not sure why I don't quit this show.

Was I the only one screaming "just let her go!" when stupid Lydia kept running off? Why are the under 18s on this show so stupid?

[SamBeckett]

Not to be a contrarian — and I said this beforehand on the Speculation thread — but I figured I’d like this. To me, the last handful of “Stop the Presses” season enders have been disappointing.

Look you don’t come to this show for great acting. Or great writing.  But the “effects” in last night episode were great. And I don’t just mean special effects (actually, I usually find those boring). What I mean is the atmosphere. You could feel the cold. And the snow and ice added a dimension we haven’t seen on this show. (I just hope TPTB beats it to death. Once is enough.)

The cold brought people closer. They could talk. They could plan. It wasn’t all fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants. There was . . . consideration given.

As controversial as Negan is, JDM can sell the version of the character as it is now. Frankly, I’ve long-thought this show needed someone like him.  Not just a smart ass, but a smart ass that can back up his words. (To me, he is much more than Daryl.) Yes, his history is a TRUE burden, and I’m not going to lie about that. Still ... JDM is charismatic.

Unfortunately, though the ending was intriguing, we have gone to that well before, haven’t we? Maybe I’m thinking of the other show that we aren’t supposed to reference here, but even putting that aside, it is similar to the helicopter imagery back in the garbage pail days. 

[jackjill89]

They just wanted to do an episode in snow with snow zombies. It made no sense from a show standpoint and was clearly written by people who don't do winter, says the girl from the midwest. 

So, shouldn't all the Zombies now be icicles and that horde has been frozen and isn't an issue, right? I'd think such a tremendous deep freeze would kill them, and they'd snap and break, or will they just thaw out to wreak havoc another day?

Where did they get all the winter duds? Have they been having winters all along and not shown them to us? Seriously, some ideas, no matter how "cool" (ha, ha) they may seem, are stupid from a show standpoint. This was one of them. 

[CletusMusashi]

8 hours ago, FortKnox said:

Ok, they've been living in that area for about 7, 8 years in show time right? So, is the first time it's snowed since they've been there?

Because, the people of Alexandria were very ill prepared to handle the snow, like this was the first time it's happened.

Usually they get through it with a time-jump. In the fall everyone goes to sleep in a magical plot-chamber, and in the spring they wake up with longer hair and more precocious teenagers.

[Pixiebomb]

This reminded me of a Little House on the Praire episode from when I was a child.  Where the blizzard hits but Miss Beetle let all the kids out of school early so a lot of kids are caught in it and people die -by the way that Little House episode was way better written and way more suspenseful IIRC. 

[SamBeckett]

23 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

This reminded me of a Little House on the Praire episode from when I was a child.  Where the blizzard hits but Miss Beetle let all the kids out of school early so a lot of kids are caught in it and people die -by the way that Little House episode was way better written and way more suspenseful IIRC. 

Miss Beetle could beat Alpha’s ass. 

Don’t mess with Homesteaders!!!

[diebartdie]

4 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

They just wanted to do an episode in snow with snow zombies. It made no sense from a show standpoint and was clearly written by people who don't do winter, says the girl from the midwest. 

<SNIP>

Where did they get all the winter duds? Have they been having winters all along and not shown them to us? <ADEEDOODAH>

Yes, I think we can all infer that the show hasn't ever shown us winter before, but "winter" as a season has not gone away from their world. (Perhaps the ZA happened right in time and was so utterly complete that the climate catastrophe was mitigated.) There is one very good reason for this, let me explain it for all the folks that don't live down south.

(To set the scene, please imagine bluegrass softly playing in the background. NOT DELIVERANCE MUSIC THOUGH YOU GUYS DAMN.)

Hey y'all, welcome to my plantation my home! Here, have some sweet iced tea, you're gonna need it. Why? Well honey, the temperature here in Georgia in the summer is usually around 90 degrees (that's over 32 degrees Celsius for those in other countries bless you hearts). Now on top of that oppressive heat, we usually carry a humidity load like you wouldnt believe. We're talking 90 percent humidity and not a damn cloud in the sky. I like to tell my northern friends, summertime down here is like being constantly smothered by a hot, wet blanket.

So imagine the actors on our show. They are down there in Georgia filming this show at the height of summer. Even in the best of times, they are usually all required to wear more clothing than is comfortable but for this episode, they're wearing coats and hats and scarves and gloves and dear lord how fucking miserable that would be? No wonder many of them didn't bother zipping or buttoning up. I mean it was very obvious much of this episode was filmed on sets built inside otherwise the fake snow blowing in the air would have just been rain or mist but even so, they had to have all been so miserable during the filming for this episode.

(Let's all quit with the bluegrass music now)

I actually enjoyed this season so much more than I have for a long time. I was giving the show this one season to prove to me I should continue on with it and it did what I needed it to do I guess. The show has ALWAYS been silly, irrational, stupid BUT when it is also heart felt, when it also has room to breathe, when it also does something different, it is one fine show.

Know what kills me though? (cue the sad, sentimental music please) How many people we lost this year! I mean...DAMN! Rick, Maggie (could the show be more desperate to remind the audience that she's not dead and thus show Lauren "hey, we really love you and want you back!"), Tara (my personal favorite inept lesbian), Enid (which is super fucking sucky because she was another healer), Jesus, and the rest. Hell, let Rosita have her kid, time jump again a few years, kill all the adults and have it just be centered on the generation that never really knew "the before".

Well anyway, as much as I completely loathe the whisperers (so much more than the saviors and I HATED them), it's interesting. The show did what it needed to do to rope me back in but I realize the writing is on the wall for this show, anybody can see it has only one or two season's left before AMC decides it is too expensive.

See y'all in October (or on another board....iZombie anyone?)

[Timetoread]

Season 9 was good overall, but that was a pretty piss poor finale.  I get it though.  The previous two episodes were a lot to swallow and we need to learn more about the Whisperers before galvanizing for a war with them.  Yes, everybody has the motivation, but they really don't know their enemy and are currently ostracizing the one person who can help them get to know the enemy.  Speaking of Lydia, I get that they are grieving, but how is it Lydia's fault that TWD boys decided to keep her and her mother retaliated?  It's not.  Nearly everybody there comes from shady, except the kids born in the aftermath.  That's kind of the point of the show - that in order to survive hell, you get in touch with the demon part of your nature, but community and love wins the day as the survivors learn how to be people again.  It's the tagline.  And every character who was breaking all ten commandments at the bequest of Negan can't say shit.  So I don't get the side eye - they were allowed to live in spite of the body count and now it's Lydia's turn.

I'm sorry, I'm all for suspension of disbelief but this episode was a bridge too far (see what I did there?).  I am born and raised in the DMV and I just can't with the ridiculous blizzard scenario.  For starters, where the fuck is Aaron's house that they needed all that drama to find it?  "Alexandria" is a suburban neighborhood, which means if you run blindfolded in any direction, you'll eventually run smack dab into somebody's house.  In the worst of storms that was unnecessary.  And wasn't Alexandria built by preppers?  I find it hard to believe that there isn't a lot of stuff to get people through winter.  That shit was ridiculous, zombies and rivers freeze solid (which doesn't happen in these parts) but Lydia and Carol are just fine with those fingerless gloves?  Nope.

So I'm clearly disappointed with the writing of the finale - add the utter hell-to-the-naw of the Negan's nice now and he and Michonne will happily raise Judith and RJ bullshit - but I'm most disappointed with Carol.  I don't feel like arguing but for years I have actively disliked Carol.  I've tolerated her in later seasons because her utter lack of morals has worked in the favor of our group to the point of being cheerworthy.  I was willing to let bygones go when she got redomesticated with the King.  But nope, same old self-centered Carol is back.  Yes, she's lost Henry and it is very sad.  But you know who else lost Henry?  The King, who knew him before Carol entered the picture and who also lost Henry's older brother.  Yes, this is her second kid that's died, but you know who else lost two kids, one she birthed and the other she adopted - Michonne.  EVERY. SINGLE. CHARACTER in the apocalypse has lost most or all of everybody they knew and loved.  Carol did not corner the market on grief, which is why I don't give her a pass on being an asshole because of it.  The King, also grieving, told her he'd always love her.  Carol doesn't know the word love so she couldn't say it - even to comfort a good man who deserves way more than this.  Per MO, she's going to disconnect and feel sorry for herself - the rest be damned, do something totally fucked up which will save the day - though that's not really why she did it, and on we'll go.  I wanted to see some real growth in her, like maybe after being in the bed of a man who treated her an actual queen, she would have learned to love that man.  Perhaps I'm wrong about it being Michonne, perhaps we're gearing up for Carol to find true love in the arms of Negan and his redemption will be realizing that he's not as terrible as she is.  I'm just utterly disgusted right now!

Final statement - about race - was it really so hard to find a light-skinned black kid circa 5 years old who can respond to stimuli and speak actual words?  Really TWD casting?

Have a nice summer, y'all!

[Boofish]

Enid's "widow" whose name I can't remember - you were with the Saviors. Take that righteous indignation down a notch

Also was the Alpha scene from the past? There was no snow. I'm confused. Did I miss something?

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Yes, I think we can all infer that the show hasn't ever shown us winter before, but "winter" as a season has not gone away from their world. (Perhaps the ZA happened right in time and was so utterly complete that the climate catastrophe was mitigated.) There is one very good reason for this, let me explain it for all the folks that don't live down south.

(To set the scene, please imagine bluegrass softly playing in the background. NOT DELIVERANCE MUSIC THOUGH YOU GUYS DAMN.)

Hey y'all, welcome to my plantation my home! Here, have some sweet iced tea, you're gonna need it. Why? Well honey, the temperature here in Georgia in the summer is usually around 90 degrees (that's over 32 degrees Celsius for those in other countries bless you hearts). Now on top of that oppressive heat, we usually carry a humidity load like you wouldnt believe. We're talking 90 percent humidity and not a damn cloud in the sky. I like to tell my northern friends, summertime down here is like being constantly smothered by a hot, wet blanket.

So imagine the actors on our show. They are down there in Georgia filming this show at the height of summer. Even in the best of times, they are usually all required to wear more clothing than is comfortable but for this episode, they're wearing coats and hats and scarves and gloves and dear lord how fucking miserable that would be? No wonder many of them didn't bother zipping or buttoning up. I mean it was very obvious much of this episode was filmed on sets built inside otherwise the fake snow blowing in the air would have just been rain or mist but even so, they had to have all been so miserable during the filming for this episode.

(Let's all quit with the bluegrass music now)

I actually enjoyed this season so much more than I have for a long time. I was giving the show this one season to prove to me I should continue on with it and it did what I needed it to do I guess. The show has ALWAYS been silly, irrational, stupid BUT when it is also heart felt, when it also has room to breathe, when it also does something different, it is one fine show.

Know what kills me though? (cue the sad, sentimental music please) How many people we lost this year! I mean...DAMN! Rick, Maggie (could the show be more desperate to remind the audience that she's not dead and thus show Lauren "hey, we really love you and want you back!"), Tara (my personal favorite inept lesbian), Enid (which is super fucking sucky because she was another healer), Jesus, and the rest.  Hell, let Rosita have her kid, time jump again a few years, kill all the adults and have it just be centered on the generation that never really knew "the before".

Well anyway, as much as I completely loathe the whisperers (so much more than the saviors and I HATED them), it's interesting. The show did what it needed to do to rope me back in but I realize the writing is on the wall for this show, anybody can see it has only one or two season's left before AMC decides it is too expensive.

See y'all in October (or on another board....iZombie anyone?)

Oh, Hon - you really need to explore temperate climes.  It ain't easy being old and poor, but being old & poor in a place where you rarely (if ever) use a space heater or a box fan surely contributes to your quality of life.  And your tolerance for all thing TWD stoopid.  Because 95% of the time, I am watching with all windows open, and honeysuckle & jasmine wafting through my senses.  Makes me a leetle less stabby about this motherfucking shit-show.

[oakville]

I enjoyed watching the group survive a winter storm. I was confused when Judith took off looking for Dog. Weren't they still inside the walls? How far could Dog get?