S03.E17: R&B

[Chewy101]

6 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I absolutely support Miguel and Rebecca living wherever they want and them being their for Kate and Toby especially since baby Jack is going to need a little extra support right now.  However, if I was Randall I think I'd be feeling like my mom was moving away from my children the very second that her first biological grandchild was born. 

I don't think Rebecca has any preference over biological vs adopted. If anything, Randall is her favorite and Kate was her most complicated. New first baby is a pain and they will need help, so Rebecca should go if she wants to be free daycare. If Randall and Beth let their kids act their age, they wouldn't need any help at all. 

Kate didn't even ask for her mom's help, did she? But there is Randall, acting like it would be the honor of a lifetime for Rebecca to chauffeur his spoiled kids around.

[ECM1231]

16 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

The show has already revealed to us that Randall and Beth get divorced, so rooting for this couple is moot. Randall is exhausting. They are both human, which means they are going to suck at times, but it's obvious nothing makes him happy. He always needs more, more. And if he expects Beth to pick up the slack for his idealistic dreams, he picked the wrong girl. His endless speeches and demands on her were ridiculous. I see a man who thinks he is doing good, but doesn't realize how manipulative he actually is. But both of these people are insane to think they can be disgusting helicopter parents and still have so much else going on. You don't get to have it all. They don't seem to get that. They would have been great parents in my generation, where we happily hopped off the school bus, let ourselves into the house, made a snack, watched tv, and did our homework. We didn't need a cheerleader rooting us on to get stuff done. And it never occurred to us that our parents had to obsess over every little thing we did. Between foster kid and two very needy parents, the amount of attention needed by these people is impossible.

Anyway, since we know they don't make it, the whole episode was basically just explaining their demise, not a battle to root for. 

*scratches head...Um, I must have missed that. Care to elaborate?

[Chewy101]

11 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

*scratches head...Um, I must have missed that. Care to elaborate?

I believe it was a flash forward over one of their many fights about his stupid decision to run for council. I wish I still had them recorded so I could clarify better. Maybe someone out there has a clip? Heck, if I'm remembering wrong, that would be good to know.

[Katy M]

57 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

That's the only issue I have with that. I think it's fine if Rebecca spends Sundays with Beth and Randall but EVERY Sunday and not once did she think Beth and Randall should spend a Sunday alone? I understand she was lonely especially since Kate and Kevin limit their time with Rebecca but even Rebecca should understand young couples need time alone once in a while. 

My maternal grandparents came over every Sunday afternoon except when we were on vacation, so I don't find that odd at all.  It's nice.

53 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

Team neither one. The best thing is to divorce and each of them find someone they are more suited for and passionate about. They are equally exhausting. I loved Beth and Randall the first season. This episode clearly showed they never should have married.

They have been more or less successfully married for years now with kids.  there's no reason to throw their promises out the window because they're going through a rough patch.  Vows either mean something or we should just toss marriage in general out the window.

[ShadowFacts]

43 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

Team neither one. The best thing is to divorce and each of them find someone they are more suited for and passionate about. They are equally exhausting. I loved Beth and Randall the first season. This episode clearly showed they never should have married. There was zero passion between them when they were dating. We saw no love at all. Young Beth was terrible to Randall. Seems like he only pursued her was because of the challenge not for any real affection for her. Only showed a very shallow relationship last night. For her to turn down numerous proposals tells you this is not a good relationship. If she loved him and was passionate about him, she would have happily said yes and then discuss the right time to actually set the date. Maybe after she/they accomplished some goals. But she just came across as cold and indifferent to him. At this point I like the little kids and the teenagers but none of the adult children. Too bad because I used to love this show.

It's important to remember that at the time of engagement they had already been together for 7 years. The bloom is off the rose a little, they have settled in and don't need to be all over each other. Maybe she didn't like the idea of a long engagement, some people don't, but the repeated proposals thing was a little much. Also remember that several times in the past two plus seasons they have been pretty hot for each other. In fact I don't think they've shown instances where one or the other showed aversion to a little action (my memory might be failing). Yes, I realize Beth showed him the couch once before. I think they love each other, have gotten through some trying times without coming apart at the seams, and can still salvage this. 

[Crs97]

6 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

I have no problem with Rebecca moving to help Kate either. What is ironic to me is Randall stayed because Rebecca "needed" him. Now that Randall "needs" Rebecca, she's hightailing it outta there.

Of course she going to help Kate, though I'm not sure why there is a need to move instead of making it an extended visit, but the irony for me is still there.

Little Jack’s needs will go way beyond an extended visit.  If Toby and Kate want them to help, then I hope they move.   If Randall looks at his tiny nephew and decides the issue is adopted v biological grandchildren, I hope Miguel does more than “dad voice” him.

I am having a hard time believing this is the first time Randall has “needed” Rebecca.  As Kevin said in the waiting room, Randall doesn’t get a lifetime exclusive.  

[ZeroDiscipline]

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

how the hell can they still afford this mansion?!

They don't have a mortgage- Randall has said before that he paid for the house in cash. When he and Beth were 25. I guess they both landed huge paying jobs straight from grad school. Which makes all of their fighting so much more dumb and selfish on behalf of both of them. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I absolutely support Miguel and Rebecca living wherever they want and them being their for Kate and Toby especially since baby Jack is going to need a little extra support right now.  However, if I was Randall I think I'd be feeling like my mom was moving away from my children the very second that her first biological grandchild was born.  

I have to think Randall is well past that kind of thinking by this point.  While I do think it's odd that Rebecca made it sound like she was permanently moving to California to help with what will likely be a temporary situation (i.e. there will be a point where Kate and Toby won't need all the help), it's not like Rebecca has treated Randall's children as less than. 

46 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

I believe it was a flash forward over one of their many fights about his stupid decision to run for council. I wish I still had them recorded so I could clarify better. Maybe someone out there has a clip? Heck, if I'm remembering wrong, that would be good to know.

I think there have been flash forwards that have suggested Beth and Randall are no longer together.  I don't know that it was confirmed one way or the other. 

[MJS]

22 hours ago, shouldbedancing said:

I love teenage Randall but he is... a lot. The way he was all smiling and like "I'm gonna marry her" after Beth said she never wanted to see him again was creepy. And there was a major fail on the part of the writers. Why was Beth obsessed with nachos and Ginger Beer? Give her a Pittsburgh food obsession. Maybe she likes a greasy burger from the O or Primanti brothers sandwich or something more local and right down the street from Carnegie Melon.

She’s not from Pittsburgh, right? So maybe she doesn’t have any Pgh favorites yet. I did shout at the TV that the date should’ve been for O fries, though!

Edited March 28, 2019 by MJS

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, Chewy101 said:

Truth. Their kids don't do squat around the house. And far as I can tell, they get to do any and every activity under the sun, if they want to. When I was growing up, we could not have done that. Based on the cost and the driving, we had to think of others as much as ourselves.

But in defense of the girls, I don't think they've been asked to do chores either.  I'm not remembering any scenes where they flat out refused to do chores.  Maybe they complained, but what kid doesn't complain at some point when doing chores?  i think both Randall and Beth are both unfairly making the girls a problem without them actually being a problem...or at least a consistent problem.  Randall and Beth haven't established a consistent routine for the girls to follow, nevermind complain about.  That's on both of them.  Very few kids that I know of are going to say, "Hey, you know what?  I need some chores to make everyone's life easier."

On a separate but related note, I think Randall and Beth are both being tone deaf arguing about being a councilman or teaching ballet when one of their children (foster she may be) actually spent time living in a car.  Seriously, first-world problems.

[3 is enough]

10 minutes ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

They don't have a mortgage- Randall has said before that he paid for the house in cash. When he and Beth were 25

I thought he paid for his Mercedes in cash.  Not the house.  But I may be wrong.

[preeya]

IMO, the best thing about this was the casting of young Beth. She was a perfect as teen Beth Clarke.

[memememe76]

They also held their wedding at the house. Those savings in a less fancy wedding could go towards a very decent down payment.

[Eaglemama]

22 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Loved the episode. While I can understand the frustration that nothing was really resolved, I loved knowing more about how the two met, what shows they like, etc. 

I guess I saw very little wrong with how young Randall behaved. And I think it is very nice that Randall saw his mom every Sunday. I will take that over all of the other shows where teens are constantly insulting their parents.

Anyone know anything about the school they attended? The name does not ring a bell to this Canadian. 

It looked like Carnegie Mellon, which is a good university in Pittsburgh.

[tennisgurl]

28 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Randall and Beth haven't established a consistent routine for the girls to follow, nevermind complain about. 

Like so many problems, everything would be solved with the use of a chore wheel 😉 

[Marci]

Who would have thought younger Beth would be even more annoying than older Beth?

[ams1001]

15 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Randall: “l’m going to find my birth father, and it will consume my entire life.”  Beth: “l’m with you baby.”

Randall: “I found my birth father and he’s an almost homeless guy with cancer. I’m going to move him in with us and have him sleep in one of the girls’ rooms.”  Beth: “I’m with you baby.”

Randall: “I’m not the favorite at work anymore, so I’m going to quit my million dollar job with no other prospect for income.”  Beth: “l’m with you baby.”

Randall: “Because of my feelings of guilt at the fact that I had a nice upbringing, I’m going to foster a child from the streets who has a multitude of problems.”  Beth: “I’m with you baby.”

Randall: “I’m going to sink most of our money into the rundown death trap building where I found my father and I’m going to need you to help me.”  Beth: “I’m with you baby.”

Randall: “I’m going to run for City Council in Philly, despite us not living there, and it being a six hour round trip drive every day, with very little pay.”  Beth: “l’m with you baby.”

Beth:  “l would like to teach a few dance classes at night just so I have something to do that I enjoy.”  Randall: “How can you be so selfish?”

Well, when ya' put it that way..!

[ams1001]

12 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It was still odd and I think they should have allowed Beth to at least not wear sweats on their first date. I'm not saying that she needed to wear a dress, but they could have let her wear a normal top

She was wearing a school hoodie and a denim skirt; I wouldn't exactly call that "sweats" ("sweats" makes me think sweatpants and t-shirt/sweatshirt) When I was in college we practically lived in our college shirts. She was probably expecting something a lot more casual, too. I suspect Randall didn't tell her where they were going so she'd know what to wear.

[JKL845]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

They have been more or less successfully married for years now with kids.  there's no reason to throw their promises out the window because they're going through a rough patch.  Vows either mean something or we should just toss marriage in general out the window.

Just meant if they are divorced in the future, may as well go ahead and get it over with if they are making each other miserable. Last night showed the relationship wasn't very good in the beginning. Somewhere it got better because I thought 1st season they were awesome together. 

[After7Only]

20 hours ago, brokenwing29 said:

Oh, online dating was totally a thing in 1998, especially for young people. Even if they were the only two black students at the college (and it's totally weird if they felt pressured to try dating for that reason), they would have both had plenty of alternatives. 

Unfortunately, it is a completely realistic and common experience for 2 Black (or Asian or Latino) people in a large group of white people to be pressured to date each rather than other members of the group.  

14 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Randall’s personality issues can be summed up in the fact that both he and Beth lost their fathers while still in high school, but only he uses that experience as an excuse for his “poor me” selfish behavior. Beth’s loss of a very important person in her life can’t even compare to his unspeakable tragedy. This whole family should have gone to therapy twenty years ago. 

I think some of Beth’s frustrations with Randall are directly due to her fathers death.  Her mother took her dream of dance away because of her father’s death.  She went along with the plan but resented it. Now Randall is trying to take away her dream to dance, and I think her reaction is partly due to the fact that she never fully resolved her resentment towards her mother.

I’m team R & B all day.  If in 20 years the fights and conflicts they’ve shown are the worst they’ve had, I’d say it’s a fairly successful 20 year marriage. Not perfect, but what real marriage is?

Also, Randall singing and dancing to Jagged Edge, Lets Get Married was the highlight of a show with a whole lot of heavy moments.   

Are we ever going to find out who Tess and Randall we’re going to visit in the flasforward?   And do we even care anymore?

Edited March 28, 2019 by After7Only

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I have to think Randall is well past that kind of thinking by this point.  While I do think it's odd that Rebecca made it sound like she was permanently moving to California to help with what will likely be a temporary situation (i.e. there will be a point where Kate and Toby won't need all the help), it's not like Rebecca has treated Randall's children as less than. 

I think there is every indication that Randall isn't even a little bit over that sort of thing at this point.  We've seen this dichotomy pop up between the big three as adults.  Kate, "my children will be a part of dad."   Kevin not introducing Randall as his brother.  

And again I wasn't accusing Rebecca of playing favorites.  Randall is her favorite.  And I think Randall probably even knows that.  However, what you intellectually know and what you feel?  Those aren't always the same things. 

And I don't think this is a huge plot point, either.  Just saying that it might sting Randall a little that the very second Kate has a baby off Rebecca goes.   

[MsJamieDornan]

7 hours ago, WasabiGreenPeas said:

Had she not been let go at her company or blown her big job interview she would more likely have been at either one of those places.

I can be a terribly mean person when arguing, so when Beth mentioned Randall's anxiety attacks, I would have responded with "like the one you had that ended that chance for a job ?"

It's not a quality I am proud of but when someone hits below the belt, I will go there also.

[Welp]

I liked this episode and found it, in some ways, more subtle than I've come to expect from TIU. When Beth laid it all out there it made me think of a few friends with similar frustrations, and we're a decade younger than R&B. They're married to self-identified "woke", liberal guys who still 1) make career decisions without considering the impact on parenting/childcare and 2) "pitch in" to take care of the kids but rarely do so as solely their responsibility. (Some of my own family members acted surprised whenever my now-toddler was home *alone* with her father when she was a baby.) 

I think Sterling and Susan have also spoken about helping the writers make their relationship culturally authentic, and I was wondering while watching if they were trying to convey subtext about gendered expectations specific to Black women (e.g., being "ride or die"). That plus the difference in their upbringings (the restaurant scene was just one example of Randall being raised/expected to not make waves about racism, which clearly wasn't Beth's experience) leaves a lot to explore. For a lot of reasons, I think they will stay together.

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

They don't have a mortgage- Randall has said before that he paid for the house in cash.

Help me remember. I know he paid for his car in cash, but did he pay cash for the house also? I remember him saying he remodeled the house all on his own, so I thought maybe he got a very good deal and fixed it up himself.

And it has been mentioned during the show how big the damn house is,but it never seems to have very many bedrooms.

[debraran]

Unless Jack left a huge life insurance policy to be divided up between all of them, I pause at how they could have bought a home that large with little credit and savings, cash, despite a good salary. Not saying it couldn't happen but seems unlikely.

I sometimes wonder how large that policy was (he was young so sometimes cheaper for large amount) because work always seems for the others to be spotty and I'm not sure Rebecca ever worked.

Edited March 28, 2019 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, After7Only said:

Are we ever going to find out who Tess and Randall we’re going to visit in the flasforward?   And do we even care anymore?

We know from Beth telling her assistant that the Pin the Tail on the Donkey game is for Randall's mother. 

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

On a separate but related note, I think Randall and Beth are both being tone deaf arguing about being a councilman or teaching ballet when one of their children (foster she may be) actually spent time living in a car.  Seriously, first-world problems.

Yes, first world problems, but they are only the tip of the iceberg, the symptom.  As Beth said, the problems have been going on for years.  It's about how she feels he steamrolls her, and he does not see it that way. 

[Katy M]

11 hours ago, Ohmo said:

On a separate but related note, I think Randall and Beth are both being tone deaf arguing about being a councilman or teaching ballet when one of their children (foster she may be) actually spent time living in a car.  Seriously, first-world problems.

So, because Deja lived in a car, Beth and Randall aren't allowed to have career conflicts?  Or they have to sit at home all day and smile? I'm not really seeing the connection.

[GodsBeloved]

12 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I thought he paid for his Mercedes in cash.  Not the house.  But I may be wrong.

You are right. Randall told William he paid for the car in cash and Kevin made a snarky remark about that in Kate and Toby's wedding episode.

12 hours ago, preeya said:

IMO, the best thing about this was the casting of young Beth. She was a perfect as teen Beth Clarke.

She has become my favorite teen.

[MsChicklet]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think there have been flash forwards that have suggested Beth and Randall are no longer together.  I don't know that it was confirmed one way or the other. 

It's been kept pretty ambiguous. Randall had just finished calling Toby when he asked Tess if she'd called her mother and Tess said she'd do it in the car. It may have been simply, "You call your mom and I'll call Uncle Toby" rather than a sign that they're split. Beth spoke of Rebecca as "Randall's mother" to her assistant as opposed to "the girls' grandmother," which would seem more likely if she and Randall had been divorced for more than 10 years.

And "Her" next week may not answer all of the questions from what we've seen so far.

[TAG42481]

Team Beth.  Period.

And kudos once again to the casting director for finding a perfect actress to play college Beth.  How does this show do better with casting younger counterparts than any other show?  Do they just have a better face index? 😃

[MsChicklet]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

ETA:  There is a huge difference between verbally attacking someone for their chosen profession, as compared to verbally attacking someone for a mental illness that a person has no control over.  They are both horrible.   But without question, attacking someone over something they have no control over is infinitely worse.

As much as I think Beth has justification for much of what she's feeling, I agree. Imagine if she'd said  "When would I have done that, huh? Between which of your chemo rounds?" Or dialyses treatment, or something related to a physical illness.  

[cameron]

13 hours ago, Eaglemama said:

It looked like Carnegie Mellon, which is a good university in Pittsburgh.

Thought that last year they said Randall went to Howard University  in DC.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, cameron said:

Thought that last year they said Randall went to Howard University  in DC.

He toured it, but he didn't go there because he wanted to stick closer to home.

[bybrandy]

9 minutes ago, cameron said:

Thought that last year they said Randall went to Howard University  in DC.

He deferred Howard to stay nearer and help out Rebecca after Jack died.  Looks like he ended up at Carnagie instead.

[shoovenbooty]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Beth talked crap about the woman's cheesecake behind that woman's back.  She was pissed at a grandma for being noisy with her pretzels, and talked crap behind grandma's back,  Two people minding their own business, that have done nothing to do with Beth and she has to talk shit about them.  I got news for Beth, she wasn't exactly quietly eating nachos.   That is Beth in a nut shell, an individual that has no problem going after people for no good reason.

Don't forget the Lemonade Kid conversation from a few episodes ago, the one Randall felt bad for and bought frozen lemonade from one winter. Beth's response was, "He was stupid, baby!" when she could have said, "That was really sweet of you to buy frozen lemonade from that little boy."

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think this is why I have never liked Beth. She's mean for no good reason, and has an air of superiority. I despise the people in my life that are like that. At best, she should have told Randall the cheesecake wasn't her favorite and asked if he wanted it (had they not been fighting, of course). At worst, just thrown it away without a word. There was no reason to insult the hostess' cooking. The hostess seemed kind and gracious, even letting Beth use a phone charger. Noisy Pretzel Grandma? Deserved maybe a side-eye, a raised eyebrow, and a smirk between Beth and Randall, not the whispered fury about how Beth wanted to go off on her about disturbing the Pearsons' "personal" waiting room.

And don't throw things at me, but I haven't liked Randall since the episode where (forgive me if I have the scene wrong) William, I think, was causing a disturbance outside the house. A few neighbors came outside to see what was going on. Randall responded something like, "Go back inside, White People. Nothing to see here." They were coming out to see what was going on because of the commotion, not because Randall and William are black. That began my disdain for adult Randall (I still like kid and teen Randall because I don't consider them the same person as adult Randall).

So between bitchy Beth and everything about adult Randall, I am Team No One.

When Beth and Randall were expressing fears over nachos late that night, Beth feared their daughter wouldn't have any rhythm. It made me wonder why, if Beth was so passionate about ballet, that neither of her girls did it? 

[Fruitypebbles]

Did anyone else catch that when Beth was complaining to Randall about the time she had to host both William and Kevin that she angrily referred to Kevin as "his white brother"?  Kevin's race had nothing whatsoever to do with the situation and it was unecessary to reference him in that way.  Beth knew when she married Randall that his family members were white.  If it was a problem for her, she willingly entered into it anyway.  Being in a mixed marriage myself, this sort of attitude coming from extended family members can potentially be quite problematic. Think if it had been reversed and Toby angrily referred to Randall as Katie's black brother? 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Fruitypebbles

[Empress1]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:25 AM, PRgal said:

They were most certainly NOT the only black students on campus!  Carnegie Mellon is mostly white (and Asian), but there HAS to be more than two black kids there - even in the late 90s.  Were they in the same dorm and happen to be the only two black students there?  

I've spent my whole educational life in predominantly white institutions. While there were few Black students (I think my undergrad alma mater, an Ivy, is around 5% Black), it wasn't as though there were NO Black students. I'm sure Beth didn't mean "we're the only two Black students" literally. HOWEVER, when you are a person of color in predominantly white spaces, that thing where white people try to put you with the only other person of color  they know is very real. "I know someone you should meet!" "Oh? What's he like?" "He's Black!" " ... And?" is a conversation I've had more than once. (My gay friends tell me straight people do the same thing to them.) If Randall is the only other Black person Beth's floor-mates (for example) saw around, I 100% believe they'd tell her "Have you met Randall? You should go out!" without knowing a single thing about him. 

Quote

Oh god, if the guy I was dating proposed on a damn Jumbotron, he would get my iciest, WASP-iest glare and a flat "no" in response.  I've always felt a proposal should be just between the two of you; if it's a public thing, then it feels like the one person is being pressured by the other person, which is not how it should be, Randall.

THIS. I would say no immediately because I would have expressed at some point that that shit is not my thing, and him doing it would mean he ignored my wishes. If the scoreboard lights up "Marry Me Empress1," I am saying no, leaving the game, and it would be a fight. AT HOME, not in front of everyone assembled.

18 hours ago, Zoe said:

It's because Beth was saying that they should do something else alone, but Randall didn't pick up on that at all and though she meant to do something different with Rebecca.

In that moment I really wanted her to open her mouth and say that.

I didn't think the "I was raised by white people" thing was TMI. I thought it came up pretty organically. Beth was like "Only white people say 'cut a rug,'" (and when Randall said it I thought "'Cut a rug?' Are you 65?") and he said, "well, actually ..." It made sense to me that he'd say so in that moment. I have an ex who is adopted and he brought it up the second time we talked, way less organically than that. I didn't think much of it. (The fight Randall mentioned seeing, I did think was TMI.)

15 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

They don't have a mortgage- Randall has said before that he paid for the house in cash. When he and Beth were 25. I guess they both landed huge paying jobs straight from grad school.

I remember him telling William (great seeing him again) that he'd paid for his $140K CAR in cash, but I don't recall him saying he'd paid for the house in cash. I thought I remember Beth saying (also to William) that the house was a fixer that they fixed up over time, which would make sense to me - good investment in Alpine, NJ. And it's been established that Randall's prior job was both very lucrative and he was excellent at it, so yeah, he did land a well-paying job.

1 hour ago, MsChicklet said:

As much as I think Beth has justification for much of what she's feeling, I agree. Imagine if she'd said  "When would I have done that, huh? Between which of your chemo rounds?" Or dialyses treatment, or something related to a physical illness.  

I agree. It's unfortunate, but IMO it's one of those things where you can feel however you like (feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are) but you just can't say to a person battling an illness that requires your care or energy. Tell your journal, tell your support group, tell your best friend or your sister-cousin, but you really can't say it to the person. I can see both sides of their cumulative fight but I thought that comment from Beth was awful. Caring for a sick person is hard, but you can't tell someone "I am sick to death of caring for you." There's no benefit to telling a person that - if Randall could not have anxiety, he would. I've heard many care-givers express relief when a loved one battling a prolonged illness dies, but you'd never tell a dying person "I can't wait until you're dead."

Living Single is my favorite sitcom so I loved the references.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Empress1

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

So, because Deja lived in a car, Beth and Randall aren't allowed to have career conflicts?  Or they have to sit at home all day and smile? I'm not really seeing the connection.

It's what they're arguing about.  Beth is feeling slighted or steamrolled as some put it.  Randall doesn't see the problem, but the problem for both of them is they are so lost in themselves.  They're both so focused on what they have done or not done or how they have been slighted or not heard or respected or whatever that that's all they seem to be able to see.  How they're happy or unhappy or how they're anything.

In the grand scheme of life, they both have a lot, all of which they have earned, but none of which has been taken away due to forces beyond their control.  The house is paid off.  Their kids are healthy.  Neither one of them is dealing with a health crisis at the moment.  They both are able to have jobs and have found jobs.  Circumstances beyond Deja's control placed her in that car.  Randall and Beth have more control of their circumstances than most do, and they're still at each other because they're marriage is not exactly how each thinks it should be.  No outside force is impinging on their ability to deal with their marriage.  No disaster or illness or catastrophe has befallen them.  It strikes me as ungrateful and tone deaf, on both of their parts---that they can't seem to be adult enough to work together to figure out if they can save their marriage.  Yes, they are having difficulties, but overall, their grass has been pretty green.

[MsChicklet]

1 minute ago, Empress1 said:

I thought I remember Beth saying (also to William) that the house was a fixer that they fixed up over time, which would make sense to me - good investment in Alpine, NJ. And it's been established that Randall's prior job was both very lucrative and he was excellent at it, so yeah, he did land a well-paying job.

And if they bought after the real estate bubble burst around 2008, they could have gotten a foreclosure.

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, After7Only said:

Her mother took her dream of dance away because of her father’s death.

That is Beth's perception, but just because it's her perception doesn't make her correct.  I personally think that is a load of crap.   Her mother "taking" her dream away would have been her saying no when the instructor at the school broached the idea years earlier.  Her mother went along with Beth, her husband, and the instructor for YEARS...at great financial expense to her family.  Beth's mother 'ended" paying for dance for Beth when her father died, which I think her mother was entirely within her right to do.

[RachelKM]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

ETA:  There is a huge difference between verbally attacking someone for their chosen profession, as compared to verbally attacking someone for a mental illness that a person has no control over.  They are both horrible.   But without question, attacking someone over something they have no control over is infinitely worse.

I agree that there is a difference, but I disagree about the kind of difference.  Randall's comment was both belittling and born of spite.  He thought he wasn't getting his way and he jumped to conclusions about why Beth wasn't answering.  So he belittled a thing that was making her happy and told her  to grow up.  It was petty, spiteful, and malicious.

Beth snapped during an argument, after Randall dismissed everything she said about accommodating him and being the one to bend.  Also, as a person who has both lived with people with mental illness and suffers from a mood disorder myself, I can tell you that it isn't just the person with the diagnosis's issue.   Everyone in that household lives with Randall's diagnosis.  And as heartless as it may sound, it would be true for a cancer patient too. 

If someone had been a caring for a person with an illness off and on for over a decade and the person they cared for dismissed his or her efforts and implied the changes made to accommodate the illness, however reasonable or necessary, didn't happen,  I wouldn't begrudge the care taking partner a snap.

My mood disorder happens to be depression.   Due to the nature of depression and the fact that I am not presently living with anyone, my illness is less likely to effect others directly.  However, I can withdraw, become anxious, or short tempered at various times or even in quick succession.   I may not be able to prevent it from happening, but saying I don't mean to be an asshole or neglectful of others doesn't mean I didn't actually cause them distress or hurt.  So they get to have feelings about that. And I don't get to decide that my illness negates those feelings.  

Randall not only dismissed her perspective, he denied the facts outright.  I would have snapped too.  Was it harsh?  Yes.  But she immediately apologized and at least she was directly responding to a comment by Randall and not just digging for the meanest thing she could think of.

Edited March 28, 2019 by RachelKM
Due not Do...

[Scarlett45]

I had to chuckle “I would’ve been too tired to watch a single Living Single.” 

I’m catching up nursing a cold and I coughed/sneezed/laughed at the same time. 

[kirkola]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

One of the many reasons why I say that watching people on television argue isn't entertaining and a complete waste of time, is because once viewers choose a side it is pretty much over.  No matter what happens in the future, their views rarely change.  So why continue to watch?  Confirmation bias.

I disagree.  Part of why I come to these boards is to see how other people saw/interpreted what I saw/interpreted.  This has led me to see things differently on various shows (this one definitely).  For example, having been in a version of Beth's shoes with an ex, I was naturally more inclined to see her point of view.  In fact, that particular ex was very much "Jack" in personality.  But, after reading through this board (all 5 pages!), Randall's side is much clearer to me.  Heck, these boards have made me see Kate in an entirely new light.  I never thought I'd side with Toby on anything (to be fair, I don't really like Toby), but Kate has been really over the top this season and Toby has always been the one to bend and make it work for her).

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, shoovenbooty said:

And don't throw things at me, but I haven't liked Randall since the episode where (forgive me if I have the scene wrong) William, I think, was causing a disturbance outside the house. A few neighbors came outside to see what was going on. Randall responded something like, "Go back inside, White People. Nothing to see here." They were coming out to see what was going on because of the commotion, not because Randall and William are black. That began my disdain for adult Randall (I still like kid and teen Randall because I don't consider them the same person as adult Randall).

William wasn't causing a disturbance.  I think the neighbors called the police on him because he was black/and they didn't know him.  

Just one of those "living while black" things.  Like that racist waiter asking them to pay in advance.  

[kirkola]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

That is Beth's perception, but just because it's her perception doesn't make her correct.  I personally think that is a load of crap.   Her mother "taking" her dream away would have been her saying no when the instructor at the school broached the idea years earlier.  Her mother went along with Beth, her husband, and the instructor for YEARS...at great financial expense to her family.  Beth's mother 'ended" paying for dance for Beth when her father died, which I think her mother was entirely within her right to do.

Yes and No.  I agree that alot is Beth's perception of her Mom.  But at the same time, unless what we are seeing is Beth's memories of the event, her Mom did have an attitude about dancing the entire time.  Mom bent because Dad supported Beth.  And with Dad out of the way (which is a horrible way to say he passed on), Mom pushed Beth to give up dancing entirely and pursue the educational dream Mom had for Beth.  Clearly Mom picked a good educational dream, as Beth did well financially in her job/career.  But Beth, under Mom's watchful eye, gave up dancing entirely.  And Beth didn't have to give up dancing to follow Mom's dream.  She could have found a way to do both, even if dancing didn't become her profession.

My friend did exactly that with acting.  She wanted to be an actress.  Her mother, while supporting her dream, wanted her to pursue other educational dreams.  So my friend found a way to make the two work.  She volunteers time in her local community theater.  She's directed plays, built sets, and acted.  It's just in her blood.  If ballet is in Beth's blood, she should have found a way to keep dancing...even if isn't the prima ballerina spot.

[kili]

Randall happily proclaims during mini-golf: "Babe, I took your turn, so - Mom, you're up."

Who does that? Beth is the one who wanted to play mini-golf and you take her turn? Maybe if he had let Beth play her ball, Rebecca wouldn't have spilled that he's told her about all the proposals.

Beth: "I don't want my life to be consumed by my husband's."

We've seen a lot of signs that didn't work out. Thanksgiving and Christmas always centres around his family and his traditions. He doesn't consider even warning her before bringing his bio-dad he just met to come live with them.  His brother and sister are the best man and maid of honour at their wedding.  She can't even object to him about keeping part of their lives private without him angrily insisting that the fight happen in front of his mother. Lots of warning signs there.

She's right about the chips. He just doesn't notice.

[Tikichick]

On 3/26/2019 at 11:55 PM, lucindabelle said:

It’s gotten to the point where I watch clips and read comments rather than sitting through the show. I watched the fight on twitter and thought Beth was way too harsh. “And you let me do it.” The Hell? You’re blaming HIM for your choice? And since I’m irritated that dance met nothing to Beth so far as we viewers knew until two episodes ago, I’m not convinced (she never watches it talks about it does anything else with it)...

his voicemail was angry and low. But her comment about his anxiety attacks suggested that she resents his weakness. And that’s... not just disrespecting a career choice. That’s unloving. That’s like saying you resent someone gaining weight or going bald. It’s much worse. Nobody sick would EVER want to feel a spouse was giving up life to be with them.

counseling would help...

but back to the show- I’ll watch at some point but I just don’t love this show anymore, and wouldn’t recommend it. The writing is contrived and unsurprising. I find the acting to go for the obvious too. It used to make me cry... I think perhaps it’s run out of steam 

To be fair, we didn't know until this episode that nachos, Swedish Fish/wine/TV were things Beth likes a lot either.  As the audience dropping into these characters' lives we wouldn't be anywhere near privy to the depth of these people the way a spouse would, there's no way all the necessary minutiae could be conveyed to an audience.  Clearly Randall knew what the candy and wine meant -- otherwise he might have been wondering if she was secretly sneaking off to a hotel room for another common reason people do that.  Considering all the stuff Beth's stuffed down over the years because it didn't fit Randall's plans it's not even a little bit surprising we hadn't heard about one of the biggest things of all she's stuffed way down deep all these years until she couldn't hold it back anymore.  That she originally put away dance in the face of the economic realities in the face of her father's death definitely should not be overlooked in any way by Randall of all people.  Not only is he a card carrying member of the Pearson Family Perpetual Box of Mourning, but also the president of the Randall Pearson I Was Abandoned at a Firehouse, Adopted By an Incredibly Loving Family Who Went Way Out of Their Way For Me Always, But Ultimately Never Did it Right Because They Are White and I Actually Have Two Dead Dads So Everybody Should Always Be Mindful of My Issues.  (Of course if Randall's the president it's going to be A LOT.) 

The fact Beth immediately apologized for saying something so hurtful to Randall says to me she was just lashing out in frustration and truly wasn't meaning to inflict pain on him.  Her frustration at being repeatedly unheard and unseen when she balks at anything Randall wants is understandable -- mostly because he denies it happens/overrules her because her reasoning is less important than his EVERY TIME -- all the while telling her they're partners and he backs her up 100-percent.   Not being seen or heard and denial of your wants and needs if they don't get official approval when your partner is an endless stream of wants and needs that demand acknowledgement despite your disapproval is too much to ask of anyone.

[CarpeFelis]

On the first date scenario: I got to hear both sides of a similar story in college. A guy friend told me that my chem lab partner was a girl he’d gone on one date with the year before. He basically described her as stuck-up and unappreciative of his effort to make it a really nice date. She struck me as a very down-to-earth person, so something seemed off about that, so I asked her about it. Her side of the story? She barely knew him and was expecting a casual first date, and he showed up in a tux! She was both weirded out and mortified. It was just way over the top. I’d have felt the same. (The “Nice Guy (TM)” concept wasn’t a thing yet, but my friend fit the description. It wasn’t until much later I found out he became friends with me because he had a thing for me, which was not reciprocated.)

[GodsBeloved]

6 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall happily proclaims during mini-golf: "Babe, I took your turn, so - Mom, you're up."

Who does that? Beth is the one who wanted to play mini-golf and you take her turn? Maybe if he had let Beth play her ball, Rebecca wouldn't have spilled that he's told her about all the proposals.

Beth: "I don't want my life to be consumed by my husband's."

We've seen a lot of signs that didn't work out. Thanksgiving and Christmas always centres around his family and his traditions. He doesn't consider even warning her before bringing his bio-dad he just met to come live with them.  His brother and sister are the best man and maid of honour at their wedding.  She can't even object to him about keeping part of their lives private without him angrily insisting that the fight happen in front of his mother. Lots of warning signs there.

She's right about the chips. He just doesn't notice.

I'm still salty over that! That being Kate being Maid of Honor. And now that I think about it, why was it Kate coming to get Beth instead of Beth's sister/Zoe? Yes the exchange between Kate and Kevin was cute/funny but Kate was so out of place it's ridiculous.

[Katy M]

About the first date. Neither of them really did anything wrong.  they had two different sets of expectations.  There is no rule that says if you accept (or ask out) a first date, that you are committed to getting married and staying together forever. Usually, you have a bad first date, that's it.   Maybe you have a funny story to tell now.  Or, you both laugh about it and have a second date that may or may not go better.

I went out on a first date with this buy my freshman year (his senior year) of college.  he took me home to meet his mom and sister. That was way beyond weird to me.  I might have let that slide, but then, he made some snide comment about "I guess I have to feed you since I made you miss dinner in the café."  Well, you wouldn't have had to if you hadn't been all jerky about the whole thing.  So, we went to McDonald's and he spilled his soda on me.  He might be a really nice guy, but I wasn't going out with him again.  Because bad first dates matter.  But, other than the snide comment, he didn't really do anything wrong. He may think it's normal to take people home to meet family on a first date, and I realize the drink thing was an accident that could have happened to anything.  But, most "couples" (for lack of a better term) don't survive a bad first date.