S03.E13: Our Little Island Girl

[CapnDonkey]

After they showed the 1998 college prep book, my wife asked me if the props department got luka from 1998 "ER" as well for this ep.   The man didn't age.  

Edited February 21, 2019 by CapnDonkey

[OpalNightstream]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

And then she would not have gone to college and met Randall.  If she had beaten the odds and become a professional, at this stage of her life she would probably be done dancing.  And no Randall, no children.  I think she got something invaluable, and long-lasting, in the trade-off. 

Yes this is all true. It still has to sting to give up on a dream. I’m sure we all had dreams at some time that we never fulfilled. We chose a different path that led us to the lives we are (hopefully) happy to have but I’m sure we all have some “what if’s”.

[topanga]

Chiming to add that I loved this episode. Beth is my favorite character, and I'm glad we're able to learn more about her backstory.

In 2 1/2 seasons, this show has moved me emotionally, but I was never brought to tears until adult Beth and her mother's scene at the table. It gave me all of the feels—thinking about what it means when we give up on our dreams, or what it means to be a mother, whose job it is to support her children’s dreams while also preparing them for the harsh realities of the world.

14 hours ago, preeya said:

I got the distinct impression she (Rashad) was doing an impersonation of the Debbie Allen character from Grey's Anatomy.

Debbie Allen, dancer/choreographer/director/actress is Phylicia's sister. Whenever one of them is doing a tough-love, no-nonsense acting scene, their Houston accents become stronger, and they sound exactly alike. 

And speaking of Grey’s, in the Pilot episode, when Dr. Bailey was introduced and immediately started laying into the residents, telling them they’d better make her feel like ‘friggin Pocahontas,’ I thought, ‘Man, she sounds just like my aunts from Houston.’ That’s when I found out Chandra Wilson is from Houston, too.

19 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

One thing I was wondering that I didn't see and may have missed in this episode: Beth has said she grew up with 14 other people in her home. Her parents, her, Zoe and her three siblings only make seven. Who and where were the rest?

I'd forgotten about that. But yeah, you're right. I suppose we're just going to have to fan-wank some things. The writers certainly don't keep up with those little details. Although you would think the person who wrote the line would say, "Hey, wait a minute..."

Edited February 21, 2019 by topanga

[Sharyn]

7 hours ago, Zero260 said:

Look quickly and closely at teen Bethany’s left eyeball. They somehow were able to duplicate Susan Kelechi Watson’s iris ‘spot’. I’m impressed. That young actress nailed her performance as well. 

I noticed that too!  Amazing!!!

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, topanga said:

I'd forgotten about that. But yeah, you're right. I suppose we're just going to have to fan-wank some things. The writers certainly don't keep up with those little details. Although you would think the person who wrote the line would say, "Hey, wait a minute..."

It looks like it was down to her mother and Zoe by the time her father died, but maybe over the years there were grandparents, and temporary stays by aunts, uncles, cousins that at one time reached a high number.  Both parents seem like the kind who would take in relatives in need -- they took in Zoe long-term.  I think if the writers remembered that old mention, they probably didn't want to deal with a lot of people bouncing around the house while serious discussions were going on. 

[Crs97]

So we have yet another storyline of a child with a saint like father and terrible mother who screws up their childhood and wrecks all their dreams and is the source of every problem they’ve ever had in the world. Gosh, how lucky these kids would’ve been if their moms had died first instead of their perfect fathers. I’m out.

[WendyM]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:07 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

As another poster has already mentioned, many trained dancers become teachers as adults.  Beth trained very rigorously for years at what appears to be a serious ballet school.  She was not learning at the local dance studio who takes any student that can pay.  The moves have not changed and she can still probably do them in her sleep.   

And maybe...just maybe...Goran shows up again when she's learning to teach!

[tinderbox]

On 2/19/2019 at 11:30 PM, chocolatine said:

“..I wonder whether that's one of the reasons Beth clearly doesn't like Kate. Kate broadcasts her sob story to everyone she meets and expects to be pitied, but never stops to consider that maybe other people have experienced a traumatic loss of a beloved parent as well....”

Never thought about it but you are absolutely right.

Quote

Edited February 21, 2019 by tinderbox

[MamaBird]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:27 PM, movingtargetgal said:

I think Beth's mother was acting out of her grief after losing her husband.  In that moment she was trying to figure out her and her family's new path now that they had lost Beth's father.  She saw that Beth most likely would never make it as a dancer so she set her on another path.  It was the one thing she could "fix" in that moment.  She was telling a young and grieving Beth that she had other options in life and she would help her figure it out.  Her message was not wrong but her timing and delivery really sucked. 

I thought the same thing.  I remember when my mother was widowed (in her 60s, with me grown up), she said that several people had advised her not to make any big decisions within the first year.  Beth's mom telling her to give up dance completely is one of those decisions.  As others have pointed out, there are other kinds of dance besides ballet, and if she'd minored in dance in college, she would have been exposed to other possibilities.  Her mother's message of "Okay, you're not good enough, time to forget the whole thing" was unnecessarily abrupt.... but I think it was coming from a place of shock and grief.

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

So we have yet another storyline of a child with a saint like father and terrible mother who screws up their childhood and wrecks all their dreams and is the source of every problem they’ve ever had in the world. Gosh, how lucky these kids would’ve been if their moms had died first instead of their perfect fathers.

I adore both Beth's mom and Rebecca. Beth's mom is the "bad cop" parent who lost the "good cop" far too young. I see so much humanity in both of these women, and so much strength. It's refreshing to me, although familiar. I have many strong willed aunts married to gentle kind soul uncles and I just thought the Clarke's made sense to me. On the other hand, growing up, my father was strict and my mother was gentle (they still are, I just can't get grounded anymore) but had either of them passed when I was young, I would have remembered the good times almost exclusively.

Sometimes the parent who is left behind to raise the kids is seen as the lesser parent, or the bad guy. I don't think it has much to do with their actual parenting but rather the timing when the other parent left their kids lives forever.

But seriously, I love me some Phylicia Rashad and I will always wish she and Ms Debbie Allen were my aunties. They'd fit right in. 

[Pallas]

18 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

One thing Randall & Beth may have bonded over upon meeting was the grief of the sudden losses of their fathers. I hope we see more of the two. 

And each of them owes their presence at Carnegie Mellon to the death of their father when they were a senior (Randall) or junior (Beth) in high school. Randall would otherwise have gone to Howard; Beth had long planned to go straight from graduation to New York. The episode also confirmed that Randall has only ever lived and worked in an overwhelmingly white community. 

[PRgal]

23 minutes ago, Pallas said:

And each of them owes their presence at Carnegie Mellon to the death of their father when they were a senior (Randall) or junior (Beth) in high school. Randall would otherwise have gone to Howard; Beth had long planned to go straight from graduation to New York. The episode also confirmed that Randall has only ever lived and worked in an overwhelmingly white community. 

Confused.  I think Randall and Beth both already accepted their offers at Carnegie Mellon when they met.  It was supposed to be freshmen orientation?  Like something held in the summer before school started?  

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Confused.  I think Randall and Beth both already accepted their offers at Carnegie Mellon when they met.  It was supposed to be freshmen orientation?  Like something held in the summer before school started?  

Yeah I assumed it was freshmen orientation but yeah it is interesting going back to the poster you are responding to that the deaths of both Beth and Randall’s fathers changed their college directions.

Also I was thinking about it and I’m curious if anyone else has the same thought, does anyone else think Beth kept dancing, just not at the school? I only ask because one, people are assuming that beths mom was implying no more dancing when she just said she wasn’t paying for the dance school and two adult Beth can pick up dancing like that so great and enough that the teacher tells her she’s too good for the beginner class? I mean maybe she can but something tells me she kept dancing. Hell I wouldn’t even be surprised if Luka from ER kept training her and that becomes a surprise ending in a future episode. I mean come on.. it’s Luka from ER- I doubt they would just pull him in for one episode.

[Crs97]

BoogieBurns, I should have been more clear.  I love Rebecca and Carol as well.  I am just tired of the storylines that portray the dead parent as perfect while the children resent like hell some mistake the mom made.  

Jack tells Kate he is an alcoholic and she is caressing his face and telling him how brave he is; Rebecca says Kate is beautiful and Kate is pissed at her for being a smaller size.  I was ready for something different and here comes Beth, who complains how Carol sucks all the air out of the room unlike her dad, who so perfectly “got” Beth and magically knew all the right words every time.  I am sick of hearing these moms basically have to grovel for being less than.  

Frankly, there was a big part of me that was really hoping Carol‘s response would be that perhaps she made the wrong decision earlier, but Beth has had decades to get involved with dance again and if she is using that one moment as an excuse not to, that’s on Beth and not Carol. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

BoogieBurns, I should have been more clear.  I love Rebecca and Carol as well.  I am just tired of the storylines that portray the dead parent as perfect while the children resent like hell some mistake the mom made.  

Jack tells Kate he is an alcoholic and she is caressing his face and telling him how brave he is; Rebecca says Kate is beautiful and Kate is pissed at her for being a smaller size.  I was ready for something different and here comes Beth, who complains how Carol sucks all the air out of the room unlike her dad, who so perfectly “got” Beth and magically knew all the right words every time.  I am sick of hearing these moms basically have to grovel for being less than.  

Frankly, there was a big part of me that was really hoping Carol‘s response would be that perhaps she made the wrong decision earlier, but Beth has had decades to get involved with dance again and if she is using that one moment as an excuse not to, that’s on Beth and not Carol. 

This. I get that the show is trying to do one parent is more idealistic than the other but it keeps falling flat. 

I do find it interesting that beths dad was too only because she’s has complained to Toby and Miguel about “saint Jack” and how no one is allowed to talk about him. I wonder if this is why she doesn’t mention her dad? She could never compete with Randall’s dad? I mean it explains why Beth may seem closed off and as much as I like Beth, I don’t need another character needing a reason to monologue about sad situations bringing them to where they are now.

[CrystalBlue]

12 hours ago, dcubed said:

It is a requirement in 16 states that insurance pay for infertility treatment, including IVF.  

In California, group health care service plan contracts and health insurance policies are required to offer coverage for diagnosis and treatment of infertility, except in vitro fertilization.  Kate and Toby are in CA.

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah I assumed it was freshmen orientation but yeah it is interesting going back to the poster you are responding to that the deaths of both Beth and Randall’s fathers changed their college directions.

Also I was thinking about it and I’m curious if anyone else has the same thought, does anyone else think Beth kept dancing, just not at the school? I only ask because one, people are assuming that beths mom was implying no more dancing when she just said she wasn’t paying for the dance school and two adult Beth can pick up dancing like that so great and enough that the teacher tells her she’s too good for the beginner class? I mean maybe she can but something tells me she kept dancing. Hell I wouldn’t even be surprised if Luka from ER kept training her and that becomes a surprise ending in a future episode. I mean come on.. it’s Luka from ER- I doubt they would just pull him in for one episode.

Very good point!  We don't have an indication that Beth hung up her ballet slippers right after her father died.  We don't have the entirety of Beth's backstory -- yet.  And yes, keep Goran in the cast!

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

BoogieBurns, I should have been more clear.  I love Rebecca and Carol as well.  I am just tired of the storylines that portray the dead parent as perfect while the children resent like hell some mistake the mom made.  

Jack tells Kate he is an alcoholic and she is caressing his face and telling him how brave he is; Rebecca says Kate is beautiful and Kate is pissed at her for being a smaller size.  I was ready for something different and here comes Beth, who complains how Carol sucks all the air out of the room unlike her dad, who so perfectly “got” Beth and magically knew all the right words every time.  I am sick of hearing these moms basically have to grovel for being less than.  

Frankly, there was a big part of me that was really hoping Carol‘s response would be that perhaps she made the wrong decision earlier, but Beth has had decades to get involved with dance again and if she is using that one moment as an excuse not to, that’s on Beth and not Carol. 

I think the idealization of the 'favored' parent is believable, but I get how you are tired of it, and I agree that Carol is not the villain of the piece.  When a person loses their partner and their co-parent, it's a double whammy and now that Beth is a parent herself she should be getting a clue about what her mother went through.  I also felt bad that Beth told her she had no air or whatever and that's why the other kids don't come around.  When grown kids don't make efforts to see their only remaining parent who is not abusive but has high standards, I wonder if they realize they are modeling that behavior for their own children, if they have any. If they are not perfect parents, are their kids going to do as they did?  Beth said it not as a constructive criticism but in the heat of the moment, and she does readily go to her mother when she is concerned about her (Zoe, too), so I think her bond with her mother is pretty intact, and she's just at a vulnerable time with having lost her job.  I think it's significant that Carol listened to Beth and apologized.  That doesn't always happen and old grievances just continue to fester. 

[alexvillage]

Former  dancer here. Also former ballet teacher. Some teachers do have a degree but there are many who are like me, dancers who don't make a lot of ones in small companies, and/or are not part of the very small group of dancers who can make  a living in a big company.

It is very common for dancers who are part of a corps de ballet, and who know that they will probably remain there for the rest of their careers, to start teaching young dancers. ABT corps has always have dancers who teach or have other jobs while still being in the company. Imagine how it is in the many much smaller companies. 

I really liked the episode. I think I am in love with Beth - did we know her name was Bethany? 

[bros402]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:06 AM, Lady Calypso said:

It depends on how the show handles Beth's new career path. I'm holding out some hope that she isn't just teaching in the next episode. I'm holding out some hope that they have her talking about working toward getting a certification to teach dance, at least. I don't think she'll have to go back to school to get a degree in dance, since she'll just be teaching in a studio and not in a school, where I assume she'd also need to have an education degree. However, I don't know exactly how that works. I think her years of experience of dance in a professional dance school should help a bit, but she'll still need to be certified before she goes outright into teaching. So I assume she'll still need to enroll in some sort of class. 

As long as they handle it better than Randall "I just need to knock on doors for two months and that makes me win the election!" Pearson, then I'll be fairly content.

Here in NJ, to teach dance in a public school, you need an education degree - though, she could get an alternate route certification - a district sponsors her to get a certification, and she works while taking the classes (So the school year acts as student teaching) - and for dance, she would need, let's check the NJ DoE site... a minimum of 30 credits in dance, with at least 12 at the junior/senior level - and the courses must be taken in a coherent sequence.

[debraran]

I thought Phylicia was great as their mom and dad was superb also. I agree with most that smoking weed in the house was not going unnoticed. My mom could hear a clink of cake dish upstairs and cigarette smoke on a jacket when you didn't even smoke. lol

I know parents worry and when you weren't very well off, you want to know your kids will be able to take care of themselves. I knew a mom who's son wanting to act, she said, you don't make it by 30 in a career you can support yourself without my help, you have to do something else, I'm out. That's more than most would have done, but he didn't make it well enough, but ended up with a 'real" job and doing community theater which he loves.  I feel her mom was just scared and came off harsher than she meant. Beth could have done ballet at college and kept up skills.

I've known many rich families at an old job I had, they joked their kids were all finding themselves much longer than others because "teaching snowboarding in Colorado" or taking a low paying teaching job abroad was doable when you knew you had money in your bank account and that when your parents passed, you'll have inheritance. Sounds cold but having a cushion does help. The problem with doing the sensible approach is you always wonder "what if"? Maybe I would be that person on TV saying how long I struggled and had my parents support and now I have awards. A tough call but Beth could have pursued some on her and if good enough would have gotten scholarships.

I hope they have them on again, maybe her mom comes to visit. I'd like to see that chemistry in her home.

I also laughed at the resume conversation. I found cleaning out my desk, really good thick, resume paper. I can still use it for a letter, but I'm glad for the computer filing but miss the personal touch at times that having someone really look at your paperwork meant.

Edited February 22, 2019 by debraran

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought Phylicia was great as their mom and dad was superb also. I agree with most that smoking weed in the house was not going unnoticed. My mom could hear a clink of cake dish upstairs and cigarette smoke on a jacket when you didn't even smoke. lol

I know parents worry and when you weren't very well off, you want to know your kids will be able to take care of themselves. I knew a mom who's son wanting to act, she said, you don't make it by 30 in a career you can support yourself without my help, you have to do something else, I'm out. That's more than most would have done, but he didn't make it well enough, but ended up with a 'real" job and doing community theater which he loves.  I feel her mom was just scared and came off harsher than she meant. Beth could have done ballet at college and kept up skills.

I've known many rich families at an old job I had, they joked their kids were all finding themselves much longer than others because "teaching snowboarding in Colorado" or taking a low paying teaching job abroad was doable when you knew you had money in your bank account and that when your parents passed, you'll have inheritance. Sounds cold but having a cushion does help. The problem with doing the sensible approach is you always wonder "what if"? Maybe I would be that person on TV saying how long I struggled and had my parents support and now I have awards. A tough call but Beth could have pursued some on her and if good enough would have gotten scholarships.

I hope they have them on again, maybe her mom comes to visit. I'd like to see that chemistry in her home.

I also laughed at the resume conversation. I found cleaning out my desk, really good thick, resume paper. I can still use it for a letter, but I'm glad for the computer filing but miss the personal touch at times that having someone really look at your paperwork meant.

I'd love to see ANOTHER Beth story, one on how Carol reacts to her dating Randall, a boy who was adopted by a white family.  Would she think he's not the right guy for Beth?  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

I'd love to see ANOTHER Beth story, one on how Carol reacts to her dating Randall, a boy who was adopted by a white family.  Would she think he's not the right guy for Beth?  

Yes, it would be interesting given how she recounted her own mother's evolution about her boyfriend/future husband she was not initially crazy about.  Randall will have the right credentials as far as being a Type A, hard-working, studious, serious person, so that might overcome any other objection.   Bonus:  he's devoted to his mother. 

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Beth as an adult was afraid to tell her mother that she lost her job?   She didn't want to deal with her mother giving her a hard time..

I can see Beth not telling her mother about the job because Carol would be the mother who would call every day to ask about Beth's job search.  She seems the proactive sort that would have to constantly tell Beth every tidbit she picked up about job searching.  We saw that her reaction to the news was to immediately offer to help Beth update her resume.  She would do all of this out of love, but for Beth it would be too much.  She had Randall spending all his time down in Philly for his campaign,  I can see her not wanting to open this can of worms with her mother at the time.  

[lu1535]

I appreciated seeing Beth's back story but I thought the episode was a bit dull and predictable. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by lu1535
wrong forum for my additional thoughts

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Parent's aren't the only ones that can have an affect on their child's development.

I seem to remember a kid in the third grade (me) that had a problem pronouncing words, and the elderly female teacher used to grab me by my jaw and mock and berate me because of it in front of the whole class.  She never got in trouble for it.

It only got worse when I accidentally kicked the ball over the fence and we never got it back, so that just gave her something else to rip me to shreds over.

For some reason the town I grew up in adored her. 

As a kid, I had always thought she was related to the Wicked Witch of the West.

She has long since gone toes up.  Given the direction I assume she went in, I don't think she needs a coat.

Regardless, I really want more of a backstory into the childhoods of all these individuals, and I think with Beth TPTB missed a golden opportunity to talk about her time in school. Talking about home life in terms of these characters is fine and dandy, but a lot of what happens in terms of emotional development happens outside of the home.

I wish I could multiple Like your post.  Sad for what you went through with Miss WWOTW (was her name Miss Gulch?) and Laugh for toes up and need for winter wear.

[debraran]

I think too that teachers do a lot with helping or bringing someone down. Good teachers are gems and underpaid, many went into teaching because they didn't know what they wanted to do or liked the benefits at the time but really have no place with children.

I had gems and I had horrible, mean teachers that would make fun of kids, accuse them of cheating if they did well, say "you'll never be anything" to struggling kids or poor children.

We are seeing high school for the big 3 next time, I wonder how it was for them.  I wonder what happened to Randall's friend who didn't go to the prom with him. So much help form who we are later, sure we can change, get stronger and grow, but it matters.

Edited February 22, 2019 by debraran

[Drumpf1737]

On 2/21/2019 at 2:56 AM, icemiser69 said:

Now, there is no guarantee that Beth would reach her goals, but it sure as heck seemed like she was forced to quit them awfully early.

She could've gotten a job to pay for further training

On 2/21/2019 at 1:52 PM, Crs97 said:

BoogieBurns, I should have been more clear.  I love Rebecca and Carol as well.  I am just tired of the storylines that portray the dead parent as perfect while the children resent like hell some mistake the mom made.  

We are seeing the story through the eyes of the child who suffered a loss. Through the eyes of the child of course the father is sainted. Further daughters hating their mothers in the teen years is a story as old as the human experience.

[DebbieM4]

On 2/20/2019 at 5:38 PM, Empress1 said:

I swear I saw Goran Visnjic in something post-ER and his hair was completely gray; maybe they dyed it for this.

Or maybe they dyed it for that!  (I have no idea.  But it was good to see him.  I was a major ER fan, and he was one of my favorites.)

On 2/20/2019 at 8:10 PM, OpalNightstream said:

I thought some of the script came across as clumsy when Beth’s mom kept trying to explain where the other siblings were “we already told your brothers and sister” when explaining the lung cancer. Then “ I picked uo Chinese food after dropping your brothers and sister at the train”. 

I adored this episode!  After becoming more and more disappointed in this show, I was so happy that they had a Beth episode and that it was so well done.  My one and only problem was exactly what you said.   Those kinds of throwaway lines were jarring, and took me right out of the story.  The writers obviously felt they had to explain why none of the siblings were around, but it was done very awkwardly - especially when Beth's Mom talked about dropping them off at the train.  I thought this episode was otherwise very well-written, and it makes no sense that those kinds of lines made the cut.  All it did was bring attention to the fact that the siblings weren't around, and that the writers had scrambled to come up with a way to explain it.   It didn't ring true and just wasn't smooth at all.

Btw, I thought it was very well-acted too.  I am not a fan of Ms. Rashad - I never have been, even before the Cosby stuff - but I thought she did very well in this role.  And the casting of young people on this show is definitely one of it's strong points.  

On 2/21/2019 at 12:32 PM, Crs97 said:

So we have yet another storyline of a child with a saint like father and terrible mother who screws up their childhood and wrecks all their dreams and is the source of every problem they’ve ever had in the world. Gosh, how lucky these kids would’ve been if their moms had died first instead of their perfect fathers. I’m out.

That wasn't my takeaway from this at all.   I saw this as an issue for Beth, but I think she's often made it clear (by both words and action) that she cherishes the life she has and that she feels very fortunate.  It was a hole in her past for sure, but I think lots of us have those.  It didn't seem to me that she was blaming her Mom for every problem she's ever had.   

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

   I saw this as an issue for Beth, but I think she's often made it clear (by both words and action) that she cherishes the life she has and that she feels very fortunate.  It was a hole in her past for sure, but I think lots of us have those.  It didn't seem to me that she was blaming her Mom for every problem she's ever had.    

Yes, and I like your phrase "a hole in her past."  Like Beth, I had a fine, happy childhood, but my parents were overly critical and doing their parenting before all the talk of building self-esteem and positive reinforcement.  So I have a few "holes in my past," I try to forget when remembering my otherwise wonderful parents.

As for perfect, saint-like fathers in this show, I think it's about time.  It seems like the last twenty years it's been endless comedies featuring smart mature women with and silly, selfish husbands and the dramas are all about  sainted, struggling single mothers  and dreadful, dead beat dads.

[mojoween]

I really don’t have anything to add other than I love middle Bethany so very much and would watch a series of teen adventures with Beth and her awesome dad.

[Scarlett45]

I liked this episode quite a bit. One of the things I do like about this show is that it portrays families as loving & nurturing while still being made up of individuals who are deeply flawed. Perhaps that’s the most interesting to me as it’s the most realistic.

I’ve been fortunate enough to grow up in a very safe and loving family, but all of us are deeply flawed as humans are. Despite being nothing like Kevin, I look at him and think he could relate to my experiences as a Sib. Seems human beings are more alike than they are different no?

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, and I like your phrase "a hole in her past."  Like Beth, I had a fine, happy childhood, but my parents were overly critical and doing their parenting before all the talk of building self-esteem and positive reinforcement.  So I have a few "holes in my past," I try to forget when remembering my otherwise wonderful parents.

As for perfect, saint-like fathers in this show, I think it's about time.  It seems like the last twenty years it's been endless comedies featuring smart mature women with and silly, selfish husbands and the dramas are all about  sainted, struggling single mothers  and dreadful, dead beat dads.

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I liked this episode quite a bit. One of the things I do like about this show is that it portrays families as loving & nurturing while still being made up of individuals who are deeply flawed. Perhaps that’s the most interesting to me as it’s the most realistic.

I’ve been fortunate enough to grow up in a very safe and loving family, but all of us are deeply flawed as humans are. Despite being nothing like Kevin, I look at him and think he could relate to my experiences as a Sib. Seems human beings are more alike than they are different no?

I like the spectrum of fathers we have seen, from William who was a terrible one on Randall's first day of life (though making the right choice of fire station) and who by 36 years later had matured into a good father for about a year before he died, to Jack of the slightly tarnished halo, to Deja's totally absent father, to Jack's unrepentently abusive one (who wasn't always that way), now to Beth's who appears to have always been pretty great.  Jackie Kennedy had a famous quote about if you bungle raising your children, nothing else you do matters much.  I think the only total bunglers were Jack's and Deja's, and yet their kids  managed to do pretty well in spite of them, and I like that, too.  Unfortunately, Nicky didn't fare as well, but there were lots of forces at play in that.

[Josiemae]

Boring and predictable.  The only suspense in this story arc is how Randall and Beth will make their mortgage payment. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I wonder how many people told that Seattle defensive player that he would never make it in the NFL with only one hand, but yet there he is playing professional football.

I think those types of situations are the exception, not the rule.  From what we saw, Beth appeared to be a competent dancer, but was not at the level someone needs to be to be able to make a living dancing. 

[Neurochick]

Loved this review.

I think in life and in relationships, if one person is a dreamer then another person has to be the disciplinarian.  Someone can be in the clouds, but then someone else has to make sure the bills are paid.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 2/20/2019 at 11:57 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I really appreciate Phylicia's performance in this episode.  I didn't think the script was all that great, but she added nuance and depth to what was on the page.  On the page she could have just been another hardass mother who pushed her children away with wanting them to succeed, but on screen I saw the humanity of the character.  I liked how she reacted to her husband's passing in a completely different way than Rebecca.  Of course, Rebecca being white and a higher social class would have a much harder time figuring out how to take care of her family.  Carol did not have the luxury to wallow in her grief for weeks on end.  

I don't know if I'd consider Rebecca to be a higher social class once she was married to Jack. She was certainly raised differently but seemed to have long left that behind by the time jack died.

[Guest]

It also seems likely to me that Beth’s mom couldn’t afford to keep her at that level of dance; it was made clear that it was a stretch with two working parents.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:41 AM, Sharyn said:

I noticed that too!  Amazing!!!

On 2/21/2019 at 3:04 AM, Zero260 said:

Look quickly and closely at teen Bethany’s left eyeball. They somehow were able to duplicate Susan Kelechi Watson’s iris ‘spot’. I’m impressed. That young actress nailed her performance as well. 

I read somewhere that the makeup crew used contact lenses for that effect. 

[Sake614]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:49 AM, sunshine23 said:

Insurance does not pay for fertility treatments.

Actuallly it does. At least in many companies. It’s been covered by some employer health plans for over 20 years. I imagine Toby has pretty decent benefits at his job.

[Driad]

They have people who can do fancy contact lenses, but nobody who can read a map, eh?

[Morlock]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:14 PM, deaja said:

It also seems likely to me that Beth’s mom couldn’t afford to keep her at that level of dance; it was made clear that it was a stretch with two working parents.

I thought that as well. She saw it as an investment which is why she asked how many of the students actually make the grade to the big leagues. I thought it was a reasonable question and concern. Not many people could or would want to spend that much money on what would just be a hobby.

[MrsE]

On 2/20/2019 at 9:46 PM, hula-la said:

He was on a TV show called "Crossing Lines, starting in Season 3". It's available on Netflix.

And "Timeless" and the short lived PanAm.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 2/25/2019 at 9:44 PM, Driad said:

They have people who can do fancy contact lenses, but nobody who can read a map, eh?

Ah, map, shmap. Who needs a map when you can fly across county in 2 hours, run for office in another state, and admire the fall foliage in the middle of a Pittsburgh winter? Maps are overrated 😀

[PRgal]

12 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Ah, map, shmap. Who needs a map when you can fly across county in 2 hours, run for office in another state, and admire the fall foliage in the middle of a Pittsburgh winter? Maps are overrated 😀

Or not never having to wear a winter coat in Pittsburgh's January weather.  It always looks like there's some sort of heatwave. 

[ShadowFacts]

20 hours ago, PRgal said:

Or not never having to wear a winter coat in Pittsburgh's January weather.  It always looks like there's some sort of heatwave. 

What it looks like is they're not in Pennsylvania.  How hard would it be to have them taking off coats when they come inside, or talk about how cold it is, or how bad the roads are, or how the flight was delayed because of the snowstorm, etc.  They don't even try.

[Chewy101]

A whole episode devoted to Beth's mid-life crisis? Ugh. What a waste of time. 

[desertflower]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:06 PM, PRgal said:

There was one scene which could be read as creepy - where Goran's character was talking to young Beth about her talent.  But I don't think it was meant to be seen that way.

I was getting nervous watching that; I was really hoping they hadn’t hired Goran to play a child molester. Not my Luka!

As an Alias fan I was thrilled to see Carl Lumbly as Beth’s dad. He was wonderful in this part. 

[saber5055]

When Beth started dancing in that studio and the teacher came out and told her there were beginner classes but Beth should go right into the advanced class ... And Beth tells her, THE TEACHER, she's not there for classes, she's there to BE THE TEACHER, I only had one thought:

I hoped the teacher said, "Like hell you're taking my job. Bye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

End of episode.

[maddie965]

I've never been a Beth fan,  so I fast-forwarded through the whole thing. Liked the last scene with her mother though.

What I got from this episode:

- all daughters hate their mothers and secretly want to marry their fathers;

- it's ok to be irresponsible (aka Randall) and ignore your family as long as you're  following  your dreams;

- if you were ever a musician or a dancer, and even if you haven't practiced for years, it's ok to go to a school and announce: "I want to be a teacher here". You'll get the job immediately.

*sighs*

Edited March 6, 2019 by maddie965