Will & Grace

[ljenkins782]

11 hours ago, jmonique said:

Grace is in her early 50s. She’s a business owner and president of her design society or wtfever it was. All of her junk is at Noah’s, a man she’s made a commitment to, and she’s just gonna bounce for the first hot rando at the airport?

I don’t care if Noah is a dick, that’s just ridiculous.

On another note, I don’t care how ridiculous Will’s spontaneous proposal was. I like Matt Bomer back on my TV semi-regularly.

Matt Bomer has quickly become the best thing about this show. His little one-liners about his own looks always make me laugh. "Do you want to check it [re the selfie]?" "No, they're always good" 

The Grace plot line is impossibly silly for all of the reasons above. 

[gesundheit]

11 hours ago, jmonique said:

Grace is in her early 50s. She’s a business owner and president of her design society or wtfever it was. All of her junk is at Noah’s, a man she’s made a commitment to, and she’s just gonna bounce for the first hot rando at the airport?

I don’t care if Noah is a dick, that’s just ridiculous.

On another note, I don’t care how ridiculous Will’s spontaneous proposal was. I like Matt Bomer back on my TV semi-regularly.

Agreed on all levels.

I really hated this episode other than the great dancing at the end.

First of all, Karen had basically implied she was bi for the entire series, then they finally put their money where their mouths are with an active relationship, and then even cancel out series canon ...and they de-queer her in a really insulting reverse parody of what was (yes, funny, but still) the watershed moment in basically all of lesbian mainstream entertainment history. Seriously, screw them. I guess as we all suspected, the G was the only LGBT they care about.

Secondly, Grace. Oh, Grace. What a horrible person. Yeah, Noah's a dick. They live together, though. She had a three-sentence conversation with a dude whose name she doesn't even know and is now traveling the world with him? Frankly I hope he turns out to be a serial killer. Also the woman has clients. What the hell?

Okay, I guess I was happy with the way Will and Jack's stories went/turned out. Though does Will's proposal means he moves to London? Or they just marry and stay intercontinental? They didn't really clarify that. Has this show been renewed or was that a placeholder series finale?

Ugh.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

"You can't marry your sister!"

"In Florida you can."

Loved that and seeing Smitty again. So happy that he got to laugh at Karen and shush Grace's singing.

23 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Though does Will's proposal means he moves to London? Or they just marry and stay intercontinental? They didn't really clarify that. Has this show been renewed or was that a placeholder series finale?

Yes, I wish I knew for sure what was happening. A long distance marriage isn't any better than a long distance relationship, IMO. I thought it probably meant that Will was going to move to London.

I've only seen Reid Scott in Veep so it was very jarring to see him be nice.

[gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I've only seen Reid Scott in Veep so it was very jarring to see him be nice.

Oh my lord, that's who he was! (And also why I couldn't figure it out!)

[jmonique]

35 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Okay, I guess I was happy with the way Will and Jack's stories went/turned out. Though does Will's proposal means he moves to London? Or they just marry and stay intercontinental? They didn't really clarify that. Has this show been renewed or was that a placeholder series finale?

Ugh.

The show received a two-season renewal last year, taking it through next season.

[gesundheit]

6 minutes ago, jmonique said:

The show received a two-season renewal last year, taking it through next season.

Ah okay, thanks. I guess we'll get our answers then! And hit the re-set button, most likely.

[Blakeston]

Will really couldn't have waited five minutes to propose to McCoy?

Edited April 5, 2019 by Blakeston

[iMonrey]

I agree with the consensus that Grace's story was silly. I understand what they were trying to do but they needed to invest more time in this new character rather than have Grace run off with a total stranger. It would have made more sense if she'd known him better. This wasn't romantic or impulsive, it was ridiculously reckless. 

I always enjoy Smitty though and him getting the last laugh was great. 

[seacliffsal]

I wasn't really invested in the first half of the episode as I just couldn't wrap my mind around why they didn't just wait a day for the wedding especially as people paid a lot of money for those tickets to Spain (I would not have been happy).  And, Estefan's family wanted to be a part of it.  Ask an airline to hold the ceremony in their lounge if need be.  So, I really didn't find that interesting or funny.

Having said that, I enjoyed Smithee and that he actually got to laugh at Karen.  I liked how they tried to end with love and happiness for the characters and agree with others that I wish the dance party had lasted longer.  Oh, and side note-I thought Karen looked fabulous. 

[atlantaloves]

I actually enjoyed this silly episode! Grace will be back in a week, trust me. He'll have webbed feet or something else she can't deal with.

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, zengirl1215 said:

I love Reid Scott on Veep and sorry to see that show end, but if he ends up sticking around on Will & Grace as Grace's new man (if there's another season) I'm fine with that. 

Agreed. I really liked him and his interaction with Grace. 

Nice to see this season end on a happy note overall :). 

[Dancingjaneway]

I think I finally have reached a point where this show is no longer must watch. Between Grace just being a horrible person and the disgusting bi erasure last night I'm out. This show made it clear last night that bisexuals don't exist and that the only important members of the LGBTQ community are lesbians and gay men. I'm so sick of bisexuals either being erased or poorly treated. This is why being bisexual even in the LGBTQ community is scary and hard. Karen literally had a relationship with Martina Navratilova in the first iteration of the show! They even made the joke that Karen "turned" Martina. No excuse for this crap. Now onto Grace. She is no longer funny selfish she is just a bitch. She is a horrible person and friend and I want to slap her. She bullied Noah into meeting his daughter, gave him shit for how their relationship was going and now lives with him even though she KNEW that it wasn't a move she wanted to make. Now she has decided to fly somewhere with a strange guy just because he loved cinnabun. That is just stupid f*cking writing. In regards to everything else it was good but not great. Smitty and Coco Peru were the best parts of last night. Looks like Brooklyn 99 & HTGAWM are going to be the only shows I loyally watch on Thursdays. 

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Matt Bomer has quickly become the best thing about this show. His little one-liners about his own looks always make me laugh. "Do you want to check it [re the selfie]?" "No, they're always good"

I also like his crying jags that don't mess up his face.

10 hours ago, jmonique said:

The show received a two-season renewal last year, taking it through next season.

Oh that's right.  This felt like a series finale.

Karen being bisexual felt right for the show so it's a shame that they erased that.  They could have had Karen coming to the same conclusion--that she was trying to find herself in someone who clearly has it all together--without doing that.

[Angeleyes]

I know the show has been renewed, but this really felt like a series finale. I wonder if they’re preparing for some sort of time jump next season?

[SHD]

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I wasn't really invested in the first half of the episode as I just couldn't wrap my mind around why they didn't just wait a day for the wedding especially as people paid a lot of money for those tickets to Spain (I would not have been happy).

My guess is that even if they could get to Spain the next day, whatever venue and services that were reserved for the event wouldn’t be available the next day. They’d probably have other bookings. Why they were traveling so close to the actual date was the stupid thing.

[atlantaloves]

Hey, am I crazy with my memory, but isn't Meghan M. actually openly bisexual in real life?

[SnarkEnthusiast]

I still can't believe they went through with the wedding. They basically married off a main character to a glorified extra and a human running gag who we know nothing about because his only "trait" is the accent/language barrier. Blah.

In contrast, Nikki was treated like garbage and a disposable human punchline. So Samira Wiley's entire 3-episode arc was to set up one cheap Ellen callback that spits in the face of the original moment? This was beyond blatant bi erasure.

Grace's plot also seemed like a weak homage to the Ross/Rachel ending, if Rachel had ditched Ross for Paris instead of the other way around. Bad fanfiction. Just totally nonsensical.

Edited April 8, 2019 by SnarkEnthusiast

[valandsend]

On 4/5/2019 at 5:41 PM, seacliffsal said:

I wasn't really invested in the first half of the episode as I just couldn't wrap my mind around why they didn't just wait a day for the wedding especially as people paid a lot of money for those tickets to Spain (I would not have been happy).  And, Estefan's family wanted to be a part of it.  Ask an airline to hold the ceremony in their lounge if need be.  So, I really didn't find that interesting or funny.

There was some nonsensical explanation about how awful it would be to get married on a Tuesday and not a Monday. Bugged me, too.

I also couldn't understand why Estefan was wearing a tux with cutoff sleeves and shorts. Did he not pack the outfit he planned to wear in Spain and therefore have to modify a taller guy's tuxedo because he's much shorter? Or was the sleeveless look intentional?

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, valandsend said:

I also couldn't understand why Estefan was wearing a tux with cutoff sleeves and shorts. 

I assumed Jack liked it that way. 

[festivus]

I laughed so hard at that wedding I was crying and I could hardly see the TV. By the time Jack pushed the woman in the wheelchair I could hardly take it. This is the Will & Grace I love. Smitty and Karen also brought me to tears. I'm  glad Grace went off with that hot rando. I hate Noah. Now we'll get more Matt Bomer hopefully. So Will won't have to go back to part time piano teachers and Grindr dates that don't show up. I love how he so dramatically cries over everything. I do wish they had left Karen as the bisexual she is. I don't understand why they did this.

Edited April 9, 2019 by festivus

[tribeca]

I never really knew if Karen’s stories true or not.  

Wonder if Grace flying off with someone would have worked a little better if the man was someone the audience already  knew.  It seems a little scary and crazy to just go out of the country with a stranger.  Hasn’t grace watched dirty John ? 

The wedding was fun although jack just doesn’t seem like the marrying type.  The dance scene should have been longer and that bachelor party looked legendary.  

[TVbitch]

Having a hard time believing a hot young guy on his way to Italy picks up an older woman in the airport and invites her along cuz, um, why? Now, if Grace gets there are realizes she can't keep up with him, and he's not her type, and it was a stupid decision, that would have comic potential. If it's true love AGAIN like her impulsive thing with Leo, then that's just dumb. Seems like she didn't even tell anyone else she was going.

This felt like a "greatest hits" season. Let's have a lot of the old guest stars back, Smitty, Larraine, the acting coach, Jack/Will tension, Karen's sexuality, parent drama, another Jack stageplay. It was almost too much. That stuff is better sprinkled gingerly throughout the years. Maybe they thought there would only be one season and wanted to give everyone a bow. 

[Snow Apple]

I thought the same things you all did regarding Grace running off to another country with a stranger without telling anyone. It's not romantic. It's dangerous and scary.

It may make more sense if she ran into Leo or Nathan or someone else she knew. Not a complete stranger!

[iMonrey]

Quote

Karen literally had a relationship with Martina Navratilova in the first iteration of the show! They even made the joke that Karen "turned" Martina. 

"Literally" may be too strong a word. That particular flashback played more as parody, and it contradicted earlier episodes, because it established Karen meeting Rosario for the first time, as the latter was working as a cigarette girl at the same club. However earlier seasons specified that Karen had brought Rosario to this country herself. I think the line with Martina Navratilova was just a one-off gag written for the cameo appearance.

That said, Karen could easily be "fluid" but still identify primarily as straight. Her brief fling with Nikki was more about neediness than attraction. 

[tribeca]

I must not have been paying that close attention because I did not notice that guy was younger than Grace.  Did notice he was hot 😂  

Since I mostly watched the first run reruns why did grace and Leo break up?

[chitowngirl]

30 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Since I mostly watched the first run reruns why did grace and Leo break up?

Leo cheated on Grace when he was on assignment with Doctors Without Borders.

[Snow Apple]

2 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Leo cheated on Grace when he was on assignment with Doctors Without Borders.

But they got back together in the end and had a daughter. Will was with Vince and had a son.'

With the reboot, they erased a lot and chalked it up to a dream of Karen's.

[SanDiegoInExile]

9 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Maybe they thought there would only be one season and wanted to give everyone a bow. 

During last year's initial re-boot, NBC renewed the show for two seasons of 18 episodes each.. The producers, actors, and network have always known that there would be a '19-'20 season.  

And based on the abysmal ratings that NBC is getting for every other sitcom these days, I suspect we could see even more years of the re-boot.

[SanDiegoInExile]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:47 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I still can't believe they went through with the wedding. They basically married off a main character to a glorified extra

And probably Estefan will appear in a handful of episodes next season.  With a career as an international flight attendant, he has a built-in, logical rationale for not being seen.  Although I can imagine an episode where he moves in with Jack and pandemonium ensues.

I can also imagine that the show could quickly erase the marriage as invalid and make Jack quickly single again.

[SanDiegoInExile]

6 hours ago, tribeca said:

I must not have been paying that close attention because I did not notice that guy was younger than Grace.  

Reid Scott is 41.  Debra Messing is 50.   The show seems to want us to put Grace in her "mid to late 40s" rather than scooting into her 50s.

Reid Scott no longer has "Veep", so we could see him next season, although the show seems better when the partners of the four leads are off-screen.

[KWalkerInc]

11 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

But they got back together in the end and had a daughter. Will was with Vince and had a son.'

With the reboot, they erased a lot and chalked it up to a dream of Karen's.

Apparently Grace and Leo still re-married but later divorced again, as they mentioned this when Harry Connick, Jr. guest-starred last season.  He blamed her closeness with Will for the second divorce.  I don't know why their reunion couldn't have been part of the dream like the kids were.  I have been re-watching the original episodes on demand and was actually enjoying season 8 more than I expected--until they got to the ones where they decided that Leo was Grace's true love and it was her fault they split, etc.  I was never a fan of that particular relationship.  They barely knew each other, so they way it unraveled was plausible, and I didn't think it needed to be revisited in season 8.

[tribeca]

11 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

Reid Scott is 41.  Debra Messing is 50.   The show seems to want us to put Grace in her "mid to late 40s" rather than scooting into her 50s.

Reid Scott no longer has "Veep", so we could see him next season, although the show seems better when the partners of the four leads are off-screen.

I got the feeling from Will and Grace that they like to pretend they are younger.  

41 and 50 doesn’t t seem like that much of an age difference. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by tribeca

[Whimsy]

On 4/5/2019 at 11:23 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I've only seen Reid Scott in Veep so it was very jarring to see him be nice.

On 4/5/2019 at 11:27 AM, gesundheit said:

Oh my lord, that's who he was! (And also why I couldn't figure it out!)

I haven't watched Veep, so I knew him from My Boys and from Great News, among other smaller, guest roles.  I've always liked him. 

23 hours ago, tribeca said:

I never really knew if Karen’s stories true or not.   

I always thought Karen's stories were made up. 

[DXD526]

Jack and Estefan seem like strangers. That's my problem with the marriage. It's puzzling why they decided to get married, because we've never seen them show any real affection for each other. 

[SanDiegoInExile]

Yea, like all those romantic scenes between Karen and Stan...  oh wait

OK, all those romantic scenes between Will and McCoy.....  oh wait...

Hmm, then those romantic scenes between Will and Vince....  oops, strike three.

Edited April 12, 2019 by SanDiegoInExile

[ButterQueen]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:30 PM, MaryMitch said:

So, just one topic for every episode?

How do we know what episode we are discussing?

[chitowngirl]

4 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

How do we know what episode we are discussing?

You just have to put a little context in the posts, especially if it’s an older episode.

Edited April 12, 2019 by chitowngirl

[ButterQueen]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

You just have to put a little context in the posts, especially if it’s an older episode.

I’m not seeing it.  I am caught up but really can’t follow along.  It’s ok, I’ll just watch.  Thanks!

[eXiled]

I disliked most of this episode. Actually, I disliked most of the season.

I agree that Matt Bomer was great. But David Schwimmer was such a downer. I say this as the only person I know who'll admit that Ross is their favorite Friend!

I hate how they erased Karen's bisexuality. One of my favorite latter pre-reboot eps featured Karen trying to get it in with a flustered Mira Sorvino. Karen chased her all night, and I suspect she may have gotten lucky because of Mira's character's propensity to drunken one-night stands. That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it.

Eric McCormack is so gorgeous. Seriously.

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, eXiled said:

I hate how they erased Karen's bisexuality. One of my favorite latter pre-reboot eps featured Karen trying to get it in with a flustered Mira Sorvino. Karen chased her all night, and I suspect she may have gotten lucky because of Mira's character's propensity to drunken one-night stands. That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it.

Another favorite scene of mine is when Lorraine started removing stolen jewelry from different parts of her body and Karen says something like "If things were different, this might be hello instead of goodbye."

[Corgi-ears]

5 hours ago, eXiled said:

One of my favorite latter pre-reboot eps featured Karen trying to get it in with a flustered Mira Sorvino.

Wait. Karen was trying to get what in who now?

[cleo]

Havent seen the finale yet but I enjoyed the ep before it. I don't ask for much from a show like this, just a chuckle and there is usually one. I know Estefan is kind of a silly character but I like him.

Laughed at the endless mention of the gold coins. And his reactions to Noah's bathroom. 

The stuff with Noah- meh. It's typical sitcom cycle- find someone, like them, get them, sudden reason they're no good, dump them. Rinse and repeat. 

Agree with those commenting about Karen's bisexuality. It's great if they want to show her in a relationship with a woman, but there is a lot of history with her character that they could use to ground the story. This setup seems designed to end with Karen finding out being a lesbian 'is not right for her' and she's straight. Which is a dull story, and Karen has always been somewhat fluid. I don't even know if bisexual is the right term- she just always seemed pleasure driven to me.

[Sesquipedalia]

On 4/7/2019 at 4:37 PM, atlantaloves said:

Hey, am I crazy with my memory, but isn't Meghan M. actually openly bisexual in real life?

In a case of art imitating life, she said she was bi back when the show first became popular, but then she walked it back.

There were dozens of references to Karen's bisexuality during the first run of the show. Making her fully straight now is a total retcon. Since seeing a clip of the insulting Ellen parody on twitter, I haven't been able to bring myself  to watch the full episode.

[Irlandesa]

On 4/10/2019 at 9:32 AM, tribeca said:

41 and 50 doesn’t t seem like that much of an age difference. 

It's not and probably wouldn't even be looked at twice if the genders were reversed.  It'd just be accepted that they're in the same age range.

On 4/13/2019 at 5:59 AM, eXiled said:

I agree that Matt Bomer was great. But David Schwimmer was such a downer. I say this as the only person I know who'll admit that Ross is their favorite Friend!

Ha.  I might say that.  Or at least, I'd say that I thought Schwimmer's comedic performance was underrated.  I went back and forth on Noah.  Sometimes he was a bummer.  Sometimes he was great--actually, he was great with Matt Bomer.  Too bad it looks like Bomer will be busy filming The Sinner.

On another note, I was watching this terrific little new Netflix show called Special about a man with cerebral palsy.  Brian Jordan Alvarez (Estefan) played a sex worker, sans accent, and I really enjoyed his whole vibe and performance.  And then I went down a rabbit hole and saw the web series he created where I again, like him quite a bit.  This made me realize that the show made a mistake in making Estefan this one-note accent machine.  I find the actor so likable in other roles and it would have been nice to add that into this mess.

[rejnel]

I've been catching old episodes lately from various seasons. Never really thought about it before, but almost every episode features a joke about how Grace is obsessed with/dates/falls in love with gay guys. But did we ever see this, other than her college relationship with Will? 

[giovannif7]

55 minutes ago, rejnel said:

I've been catching old episodes lately from various seasons. Never really thought about it before, but almost every episode features a joke about how Grace is obsessed with/dates/falls in love with gay guys. But did we ever see this, other than her college relationship with Will? 

Off the top of my head, I remember Jack wound up sleeping with the overly-zen guy (Josh?) that Grace was dating at the same time as she was dating Ben (Gregory Hines). I also recall Grace admitting at one point that another high school or college crush of hers is now a chorus boy on a cruise ship - and she did marry Will's boyfriend James (Taye Diggs) so that he wouldn't have to leave the country. IIRC, a number of the mentions were from Grace herself, who acknowledged it as a pattern of hers, so it's clearly meant to be a legitimate established part of her character, unlike Jack's constant unwarranted digs at Will's weight and thinning hair.

[PWHCHCH]

On 3/18/2019 at 2:31 PM, atlantaloves said:

Know what guys, I think this reboot has gotten very very very stale already....I'm through. But I will say that the Red cross blood drive calls me all the time for my AB negative blood, let me tell ya. And I am too light weight to give, but I do it anyway when they need it. I call the gals at the Red Cross vampires because they literally LUST for my blood. Ha. Piss on Grace's dad.

I got three calls in one day asking for my blood. Thought it was rather OTT. 

[PWHCHCH]

This upcoming season will be its last. 

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/will-grace-series-end-2020-season-1203279881/

[Annber03]

On the one hand, I'm not too surprised, 'cause I've wondered how long a lot of these reboots/revivals would last in general.

But on the other hand, dang, now this makes three shows I watch that'll be wrapping things up next TV season. That sucks :/. 

[legaleagle53]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:53 PM, valandsend said:

There was some nonsensical explanation about how awful it would be to get married on a Tuesday and not a Monday. Bugged me, too.

In Spain (and in many other Spanish-speaking cultures) it's considered bad luck to get married on a Tuesday. An old Spanish proverb says "En martes, ni te cases ni te enviajes" ("On Tuesdays, don't get married or go on a trip.").