Will & Grace

[Guest]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:19 PM, Snow Apple said:

Why do they keep hinting that Will and Jack are end game? What I love is their friendship antics.

On 3/8/2019 at 7:24 AM, bichonblitz said:

Also enjoyed Jack admitting that Will has a better body, is thinner and his hair is real! Eric and Sean have great chemistry. The scenes of these two together are the only scenes of Jack that I like. 

 

The Will and Jack scenes have made me queasy/morbidly intrigued lately, because they seem to be inching towards some sort of revelation of...sexual tension? Feelings? I'm not sure. (Particularly, the way Jack delivered "....you're attractive" stood out to me as more than petty reluctance ; there was some vulnerability and shyness to it that suggested he found him attractive.) Whether you ship it or are disgusted by it, it's definitely keeping me watching. I have a feeling Estefan's "you just have to kiss to break the tension" wisdom will be prophetic for Will & Jack, probably directly before the ceremony. If the writers are going this route, Will writing Jack's vows (and/or Jack reacting to them) would be an obvious catalyst to discovering/admitting deeper feelings. And if it's Jack harboring a repressed flame, I don't think the writers would do a rehash of Will rejecting Jack. Everyone talks about these characters in arrested development - but it's a stretch and downright embarrassing to be rejected by the same man when you're in your 20s and your 50s.  If anyone has feelings there, it's happening. I smell a "Ross & Emily's wedding"-style season finale.

[kelslamu]

I don't think I've ever been preached at so much in one episode of a show.  I think the "won't even bake us a cake line" was what did it for me.  I've seen and read all the stories online and don't want to hear it all over again in a sitcom.  I did understand the reason for the blood transfusion bit.  It just seemed the whole episode was trying educate society as a whole.  Between that and all of Jack's "jokes", I think I'm done.  I really liked the original series, but this is just too much of a kind of preaching for me in a sitcom.   A little goes a long way.   

[Blakeston]

I was really, really hoping Jack would realize that Drew was the right man for him.

[chitowngirl]

I really liked Matt Bomer and David Schwimmer’s scenes together. And I agree about Matt’s eyes!

Edited March 22, 2019 by chitowngirl

[iMonrey]

And we're right back where we were 11 (12?) years ago. Will and Grace are too comfortable with each other to pursue romantic relationships with anyone else. I know they agreed to move in with their respective boyfriends but I don't see a healthy future for either one at this point.

And please, dear God, let's not make Karen a lesbian at this point. I know she's shown signs of being somewhat fluid in the past but it was always part of a joke. It's such a cliche for female characters to go gay after a string of unsuccessful relationships with men.

That said, I did get a few good chuckles out of this one. Matt Bomer makes a great comic foil. I loved when Noah didn't believe him about Grace lying so he put on his glasses and told him again. The contrast between Will's bedroom and Grace's was pretty funny too.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I thought this was a pretty funny episode. I liked "Oh, so you're a vagitarian!" and when Matt Bomer put on his glasses and David Swchimmer said "OMG, they're lying to us!"

There was some growth for Karen and Jack in respect to their relationships.

I don't mind if Will and Grace live happily ever after together. I think our society places too much importance on romantic relationships. I think you can be happy alone or with friends or in any kind of non-traditional relationship that isn't the end all be all of our culture -- a lifelong monogamous relationship. That is something that really doesn't work for a lot of people considering most people have more than one relationship in their lifetime whether it's serially monogamous or not.

[gesundheit]

Can someone remind me if Grace ever did meet Noah's daughter back in the fall episodes? I have flashes of memory of it in my mind but I could just be filling in blanks.

Samira Wiley is never not adorable.

[luna1122]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I really liked Matt Bomer and David Schwimmer’s scenes together. And I agree about Matt’s eyes!

They were fabulous together. "You're like a hot baby."

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And we're right back where we were 11 (12?) years ago. Will and Grace are too comfortable with each other to pursue romantic relationships with anyone else. I know they agreed to move in with their respective boyfriends but I don't see a healthy future for either one at this point.

And please, dear God, let's not make Karen a lesbian at this point. I know she's shown signs of being somewhat fluid in the past but it was always part of a joke. It's such a cliche for female characters to go gay after a string of unsuccessful relationships with men.

In the last couple weeks, formerly very hetero female characters on You're the Worst, Broad City, and Better Things have all gone the maybe/kinda bi/lesbian route. Which happens, and all, and that's great, but at this point it DOES seem like a sitcom cliché. 

I don't really have any problem Will and Grace being each other's one true non-sexual loves. Families take on all forms. David and Matt (I don't remember their character's names) seemed to accept it all with some, um, grace.

[gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

In the last couple weeks, formerly very hetero female characters on You're the Worst, Broad City, and Better Things have all gone the maybe/kinda bi/lesbian route. Which happens, and all, and that's great, but at this point it DOES seem like a sitcom cliché. 

Yeah, I mean I kinda love all these plots separately but that they all happened in the same month on three of the few half-hour comedies I actually watch makes it feel like an epidemic. Obviously it was a coincidence but that's a shame. (Oddly this one seems the most realistic since Karen's always seemed open and willing, but was with Stan in a passionless relationship for so many decades that it makes perfect sense she wasn't able to explore her bi side -- while the other two don't really have that justification.)

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Yeah, I mean I kinda love all these plots separately but that they all happened in the same month on three of the few half-hour comedies I actually watch makes it feel like an epidemic. Obviously it was a coincidence but that's a shame. (Oddly this one seems the most realistic since Karen's always seemed open and willing, but was with Stan in a passionless relationship for so many decades that it makes perfect sense she wasn't able to explore her bi side -- while the other two don't really have that justification.)

22 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

In the last couple weeks, formerly very hetero female characters on You're the Worst, Broad City, and Better Things have all gone the maybe/kinda bi/lesbian route. Which happens, and all, and that's great, but at this point it DOES seem like a sitcom cliché. 

Your mileage may vary, of course, but women experimenting with bisexuality even when they're "super straight" is actually becoming pretty commonplace. I'm 27 and it feels like particularly with teenagers and people in their 20s, way more people identify as some variety of not straight these days. Almost everyone I talk to in that age bracket is open to at least sexually exploring the same gender. Casting Samira Wiley for the role really made me laugh on a meta level because she famously seduced one of the writers on Orange Is the New Black (her breakout role) away from her new husband of a few months – and now the two of them have been married for several years! Coincidentally or maybe not, almost every role she seems to play involves her wooing previously straight female characters and convincing them to "dip their toe into the lady pond," as Any Cohen would say. In the past, references to Karen's ambiguous bisexuality have always been punchlines, so I thought it was nice and refreshing to see her actually be vulnerable and genuinely attracted to a woman.

Whether you think it's a cliché or a ratings grab, I'd much rather watch a few episodes of Karen cavorting around in a hot (albeit arguably nonsensical) lesbian fling then being prodded to laugh at Alec Baldwin in her stale and hammy relationship with Malcolm. That relationship has always been very slapstick, so I'm intrigued by the possibility of Karen letting her guard down a bit and having a sincere emotional connection in addition to the inevitable onslaught of sex jokes.

On another note, not that it really matters, but why are the writers so obsessed with all of the characters' love interests being in their 20s and 30s in the reboot? Has anyone dated anyone their age that wasn't from the original run? I guess Grace and Noah. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but unless you're specifically looking for that relationship dynamic, I've never seen so many people in their 20s and 30s so ready to enter long-term monogamous relationships with people in their 50s LOL. It's just a little strange and really highlights the arrested development problem with these characters. 

[gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Casting Samira Wiley for the role really made me laugh on a meta level because she famously seduced one of the writers on Orange Is the New Black (her breakout role) away from her new husband of a few months – and now the two of them have been married for several years! Coincidentally or maybe not, almost every role she seems to play involves her wooing previously straight female characters and convincing them to "dip their toe into the lady pond," as Any Cohen would say.

Really, though? Because of the shows she's been a regular or recurring on, I don't recall that ever happening -- OitNB, You're the Worst, Handmaid's Tale, Ryan Hansen Solves Crimes... I don't remember it ever happening before Karen. (I suppose you could argue Soso, but she definitely says she's hooked up with plenty of ladies in the past, but I guess Poussey was the first she thought of romantically.) What roles am I missing? I want to go watch!

Anyway! I'm in complete agreement that I'd rather watch Karen do this than anything at all with Malcolm. He's not funny, nor is their dynamic. I don't know why they decided to move ahead with them.

[mccartygirl]

8 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I really liked Matt Bomer and David Schwimmer’s scenes together. And I agree about Matt’s eyes!

I liked that a lot too. I have this strange crush on David Schwimmer, always have, and I have no reason why. I'm loving him on the show! I find Grace really annoying, but I hope she doesn't break up with him. 

[ams1001]

I really kinda hate Grace's giant clear-plastic glasses...

[juliet73]

I love when Matt Bomer is on!  Ross Gellar...not so much. I don't know what it is, but I think David Shwimmer is trying way too hard not to be Ross and it's coming across as bad acting, IMO. I'm fine if he an Grace break up.

Has Jack's mom ever appeared or she just "on the phone?"

I thought Karen's plot was pretty weak.

[giovannif7]

29 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

Has Jack's mom ever appeared or she just "on the phone?"

Yes, Veronica Cartwright plays/played Judith in the Season 2 episode Homo For The Holidays. She gets invited to Thanksgiving at Will's, which exposes the fact that Jack has never come out to her. Will & Grace goad him into coming out to her at dinner, after which she turns the tables on him and admits that the man Jack thought was his dad actually wasn't. It launched a storyline about Jack's search for his real father.

[KWalkerInc]

13 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Can someone remind me if Grace ever did meet Noah's daughter back in the fall episodes?

Yes, they did meet.  Noah had said he wasn't ready for Grace to meet Katie and Grace got upset about it.  She went over to the house to apologize to Noah, but he wasn't home and Katie answered the door.  She pretended to be her new math tutor for a little while, but it was obvious she wasn't, so I think she came clean.  Then Noah came back and Grace hid in a closet or something, but she got caught of course.

[seacliffsal]

All I know is that I laughed more during this episode than during the last many that proceeded it.  

[PumpkinPK]

On 3/22/2019 at 9:28 AM, chitowngirl said:

I really liked Matt Bomer and David Schwimmer’s scenes together. And I agree about Matt’s eyes!

And skin!!!!

He wears a suit so beautifully, the world should just retire suits for any non-Matt Bomer of the male species.

[msrachelj]

On 2/24/2019 at 2:41 AM, Gothish520 said:

Grace: "I'm going to give you thirty seconds of tough love..."

Karen: "Alright, but no car antennas and stay away from the face."

I howled!

I love Malcolm, always a treat to see him. Alec Baldwin looks like he's having fun in the role, and he and Megan Mullally have great chemistry. Then again, MM would have chemistry with a coat rack.

The cold open with Will and Jack was funny. More great chemistry, they play off each other so well. 

when i first saw grace in the office, all i could stare at was her crazy arched eyebrows. did she look off this episode. i know my tv is too small/too far but she was channeling carrot top. her face looked odd too.

[memememe76]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

All I know is that I laughed more during this episode than during the last many that proceeded it.  

I agree. A vast improvement from last week. 

I am puzzled why they isolate the four main characters so often on this show. 

[MaggieG]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:44 AM, giovannif7 said:

Yes, Veronica Cartwright plays/played Judith in the Season 2 episode Homo For The Holidays. She gets invited to Thanksgiving at Will's, which exposes the fact that Jack has never come out to her. Will & Grace goad him into coming out to her at dinner, after which she turns the tables on him and admits that the man Jack thought was his dad actually wasn't. It launched a storyline about Jack's search for his real father.

This episode gave us the great line from Karen: "How could Jack's mom not know he is gay, is she headless?!"

[scrb]

Floored to find this season hasn’t gotten good reviews or much attention.

Previous season got good reviews for the reboot and reinvention.

But it has to c9nstantly push the envelope t9 be worthwhile?

Its great just as an ensemble of great comic actors at the top of their game.

[athousandclowns]

My DVR stopped recording almost the end where grace asked Will to leave what happened did they break up? 

[SanDiegoInExile]

2 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

My DVR stopped recording almost the end where grace asked Will to leave what happened did they break up? 

Grace blathered on that Ross Gellar was a controlling twerp, and of course, he was standing right behind her.

<to be continued>

Part Two is Thursday 4-4-19.

[Snow Apple]

In the scene where Will and Jack was drinking coffee, Will was drinking from a mug embossed with the letter W and Jack from G. All of a sudden, they were drinking from each other's mugs. Did I miss the the characters switch mugs or was that an error?

I don't know why I'm focused on this but oh well.

[bunnyface]

Yeah, the mugs switched back and forth a few times.  It made me laugh.  My DVR also switched off right after "he's right behind me, isn't he?"  I'm glad we didn't miss too much.  Maybe I need to add a minute to the end of everything.

[jmonique]

I really don't understand why they made Will gay if they were never going to be allowed to get involved with other people. Twenty years later and it's all just as toxic.

Edited March 29, 2019 by jmonique

[festivus]

Noah suuuucks. I would be out of there. Thought the thing about the coins went on too long. Love Samira Wiley, she is the cutest. I did laugh at the after effects of the party at the beginning and Karen waking up singing.

Edited March 29, 2019 by festivus

[bichonblitz]

So Grace didn't realize Noah was a selfish prick before they moved in together? 

[MakeMeLaugh]

I’m really liking Jack’s future husband who makes me laugh and will be soooo pissed if they don’t get married. That would be a good opportunity for different future storylines. I’d love Samira to be a semiregular but have enjoyed Karen more than in this pairing. I actually like Noah with Grace (but can’t see that lasting) as he pulls her out of the tiresome-to-me same old same old with Will (much like the existence of Karen’s ex/late? husband did even though we never saw him).

[ljenkins782]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:44 AM, giovannif7 said:

Yes, Veronica Cartwright plays/played Judith in the Season 2 episode Homo For The Holidays. She gets invited to Thanksgiving at Will's, which exposes the fact that Jack has never come out to her. 

I don't care how many times he does it, Jack's delivery of "Judith!" never fails to make me laugh. 

Quote

I really kinda hate Grace's giant clear-plastic glasses...

They are really ugly and unflattering.

I'm also hating Karen's voice lately, I miss the squeaky "oh honey" voice. It seems like she uses an especially weird voice whenever she's delivering a line related to politics or gender issues (kinda like how some people whisper when they say "cancer" or talk about someone's race). 

I don't really like the actress that she's getting involved with, so I don't enjoy that storyline and I'd rather she have more interactions with the main cast. 

Quote

I am puzzled why they isolate the four main characters so often on this show. 

Agreed. Some of the best shows in the original run had all 4 together, like the Thanksgiving episodes or the time they all rode in Grace's uncle's car. 

There doesn't need to be a completely separate storyline for 1 or 2 apiece, they can have them all together and still have A and B plots within one story. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

So Grace didn't realize Noah was a selfish prick before they moved in together? 

He really showed his ass backing out of a trip to Spain for a wedding just because an old friend was coming to town. You honor your first commitment, you don't ditch your obligations because something "better" comes along.

Also, in what universe is Grace compatible with someone who doesn't even watch TV? I get that compromises have to be made in relationships and "opposites attract" blah blah blah, but there has to be a modicum of compatibility. If your whole life is sports and you are seeing someone who hates sports, you're probably not right for each other. It's not rocket science.

[Snow Apple]

4 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

So Grace didn't realize Noah was a selfish prick before they moved in together? 

I think she did but she's always desperate to keep a man who is halfway decent (and sometimes less than halfway) even if he is wrong for her.

[atlantaloves]

Well for me, the highlight of the show was Karen in her Lesbo drag....that was hysterical.....and so out of fashion.  I actually laughed! 

[MaryMitch]

I like Karen's girlfriend, but I don't like Karen as a lesbian.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:39 PM, iMonrey said:

Also, in what universe is Grace compatible with someone who doesn't even watch TV? I get that compromises have to be made in relationships and "opposites attract" blah blah blah, but there has to be a modicum of compatibility. If your whole life is sports and you are seeing someone who hates sports, you're probably not right for each other. It's not rocket science.

I can see a relationship working between two people where one enjoys TV and the other does not. However, the compromise would be to have a separate TV room NOT to have no TV at all. That is definitely not a compromise.

[seacliffsal]

3 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I like Karen's girlfriend, but I don't like Karen as a lesbian.

But I don't like her with Malcom either.  They should have kept her with Stanley.  We never saw him but he had an essential role (money among others).  I don't understand why they had them divorce.  Karen is best when she is her own unique self and commenting on the others (that way she serves as a stand-in for me...).

[atlantaloves]

But here's the deal....in the old series they killed off Stan, how did he come back to life with the re-boot is what I what to know. Why, because Stanley's presence in Karen's life actually works in this silly show, that's why. Like Maris did on Frazier. I loved Maris! And I adore fat fat rich Stan too. 

[Bill1978]

4 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

But here's the deal....in the old series they killed off Stan, how did he come back to life with the re-boot is what I what to know.

Didn't he come back to life in the original run? Didn't he fake his death for some reason? Happy to be told my memory is wrong, ut that's where my memory is currently sitting.

[atlantaloves]

Now I am thinking I may be wrong....but didn't they lay Stan's ashes to rest on a big old boat trip in the last season?

[Bill1978]

Just checked Wikipedia. Stan 'dies' in Season 5 which would probably be the ashes memory cause that where Jack and Will wake up in bed together. End of Season 7 Stan is revealed to be alive and stays alive.

[iMonrey]

Stan did fake his own death in the original series then returned later. He and Karen eventually reconciled but in the final season they divorced again and she wound up with no money. That's why Jack agreed to be Beverly Leslie's new "business partner" so they could live off his money after he died and Jack inherited it. But they appear to be ignoring most, if not all, of the last season.

[TV Diva Queen]

I wish the last scene of all them dancing was longer. Sooooo good. 

[memememe76]

Given how Schwimmer appeared all of this season, a real disservice to his character. 

That said, I do like Grace's new guy. 

I really do not like Jack's husband. 

[jmonique]

Grace is in her early 50s. She’s a business owner and president of her design society or wtfever it was. All of her junk is at Noah’s, a man she’s made a commitment to, and she’s just gonna bounce for the first hot rando at the airport?

I don’t care if Noah is a dick, that’s just ridiculous.

On another note, I don’t care how ridiculous Will’s spontaneous proposal was. I like Matt Bomer back on my TV semi-regularly.

[TV Diva Queen]

^^^^^this!  Grace lives with Schwimmer, it’s so ridiculous that’s shes just going off to Europe with a stranger. They haven’t addressed that she’s grown up with her finances. Wasn’t she always broke and cheap and now she’s jetting off to Italy?  Maybe she will come back pregnant like she did when she got on a plane w Connick. 😂😂

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, jmonique said:

Grace is in her early 50s. She’s a business owner and president of her design society or wtfever it was. All of her junk is at Noah’s, a man she’s made a commitment to, and she’s just gonna bounce for the first hot rando at the airport?

I don’t care if Noah is a dick, that’s just ridiculous.

On another note, I don’t care how ridiculous Will’s spontaneous proposal was. I like Matt Bomer back on my TV semi-regularly.

I liked Noah and Grace together, bummer.

I agree about Matt Bomer - I don't care if they have to set the show in London, just keep him on my TV screen! 

[KWalkerInc]

I saw the homage to Ellen with Karen coming from a mile away (as soon as there was a microphone in the shot).  I did like Smitty finally getting a chance to laugh at Karen, as well as when he got Grace to stop singing.  I liked this much more than last year's finale (but that wouldn't have taken much).

[Blakeston]

It's kind of amazing that they've married off Jack to someone who we know virtually nothing about - except that he has the world's most obnoxious accent. My guess is they won't last.

[zengirl1215]

I love Reid Scott on Veep and sorry to see that show end, but if he ends up sticking around on Will & Grace as Grace's new man (if there's another season) I'm fine with that.