S01.E08: O Sister, Where Art Thou?

[Steff]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I always thought the reason Dan didn’t like Mark was that he was ALOT like Mark as a teen.  The James Dean,  rebel without a cause but ultimately a good guy type.   

I always thought that Dan, for the most part, liked Mark.  His problem was Becky being too young & not looking to her future because of a guy.  Not because the guy was a bad person, but because of Becky.  If that makes sense.  Dan covered for Mark more than once, he defended Mark to Becky & Roseanne several times, he gave Mark a job & kept him on after Becky broke up with him because he was a good worker.   When he had to close the shop, it was Becky that Dan was pissed at for her attitude about him letting Mark go, not anything about Mark specifically.  When Becky & Mark ran off & got married, it hurt Dan & Becky's relationship, not his & Marks.  He didn't think less of Mark or take his anger out directly on Mark, but on Becky.   I always saw the conflict between Dan & Becky compared to Roseanne who really didn't like Mark IMO.  I think eventually Roseanne saw how Becky & Mark were basically her & Dan.    Now if we talk about them taking out Dan's bike & adjusting the carb, then yes, Dan REALLY didn't like Mark, but still it was about Dan & Becky more than Becky & Mark. 

 

and I still wish they would tell us how Mark died! 

[Bastet]

17 minutes ago, Steff said:

When Becky & Mark ran off & got married, it hurt Dan & Becky's relationship, not his & Marks.  He didn't think less of Mark or take his anger out directly on Mark, but on Becky.

Oh, he was every bit as pissed at Mark as he was at Becky when they came back to get her stuff; he wouldn't speak to either one of them - or even come in from the garage - and when Mark tried to talk to him, Dan threatened, "You're in my way.  Are you gonna move, or do you want me to move you?"  When Dan finally ended his silent treatment and called Becky, he started talking to her about window insulator, and she said he should be talking to Mark about this stuff.  Dan hesitated, then said, okay, put him on.

[Steff]

Points taken, but for me, I saw it more about being between Dan & Becky the majority of the time.  I'm okay sitting alone with that. 

[CrystalBlue]

I'm not loving Ben the Boyfriend Boss so far.  As we've all hashed over, he's either a controlling, domineering man aka an Alpha Male (?) and/or Darlene is a rude, obnoxious, ready-for-a-fight Alpha Female (?).  (Question marks are because that's not what I think of when defining Alphas.)  Despite the hasty entry into intimacy and a walk-out dinner date, Darlene is still working for him and they're still dating.  OK.  Ben's criticism of Darlene not ready to commit "because she's vulnerable" was a little too early in the game for me.  Why should Darlene be committing to this guy so soon?  Then he turns around and says she doesn't really know if he's married; that's how well they know each other.

Hopefully for me this is the last we see of Peter.  Jackie seems to have come to realize how ridiculous he is with his Nordic roleplaying, but is she going to cut off the financial support she's giving him?  Why on earth would a grown woman be paying a grown man's tuition anyway?  He really pissed me off this episode when Jackie told him what she wanted (a little help, pitch in for expenses) and he cooly told her he would do so, after his paper is finished!  He's just using her!  Arrgh!

[Camera One]

I still find Darlene's boss and Harris to be annoying, so I'm glad their presence was limited.  Overall, this episode was much funnier and came together better.  Becky should have apologized for not telling Darlene about Harris, but once again, their conversation was the highlight of the episode.  Jackie's wacky Viking re-enactment was amusing as well, though I hope Jackie dumps that freeloader boyfriend soon.  

[chocolatine]

10 hours ago, BeachDays said:

I don’t think Darlene was out of line with what she said to Harris.   She wants the best for her kids and for them to not head down the wrong path.   The issue itself was that Harris was drinking and saying calm down mom, I’m getting awesome grades.   Darlene wasn’t saying she herself is perfect, but rather just wanting Harris to make better decisions.  

She wasn't "out of line" but I don't think what she said had any effect on Harris. Harris needs a much firmer hand; this isn't the first time she's gotten into trouble. Especially with the drinking in the woods, she doesn't seem to understand that she could end up getting raped or killed by doing that. Roseanne would have thought up a punishment that's both effective and entertaining to watch, not just a touchy-feely speech.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

I'm not loving Ben the Boyfriend Boss so far.  As we've all hashed over, he's either a controlling, domineering man aka an Alpha Male (?) and/or Darlene is a rude, obnoxious, ready-for-a-fight Alpha Female (?).  (Question marks are because that's not what I think of when defining Alphas.)  Despite the hasty entry into intimacy and a walk-out dinner date, Darlene is still working for him and they're still dating.  OK.  Ben's criticism of Darlene not ready to commit "because she's vulnerable" was a little too early in the game for me.  Why should Darlene be committing to this guy so soon?  Then he turns around and says she doesn't really know if he's married; that's how well they know each other.

Hopefully for me this is the last we see of Peter.  Jackie seems to have come to realize how ridiculous he is with his Nordic roleplaying, but is she going to cut off the financial support she's giving him?  Why on earth would a grown woman be paying a grown man's tuition anyway?  He really pissed me off this episode when Jackie told him what she wanted (a little help, pitch in for expenses) and he cooly told her he would do so, after his paper is finished!  He's just using her!  Arrgh!

I’ve known some men willing to pay a grown woman ‘s tuition, so that part in itself doesn’t bother me.

[BeachDays]

38 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

She wasn't "out of line" but I don't think what she said had any effect on Harris. Harris needs a much firmer hand; this isn't the first time she's gotten into trouble. Especially with the drinking in the woods, she doesn't seem to understand that she could end up getting raped or killed by doing that. Roseanne would have thought up a punishment that's both effective and entertaining to watch, not just a touchy-feely speech.

 

I feel for Darlene, she is trying to do her best, but yeah Harris does need a more firm hand.   I felt really bad for her both in this ep and the one where she finds out Harris slept with a boy.  In both instances she was utterly dumbfounded.   I would love to say a strong parental presence would help but Roseanne and Dan were that to their teenagers and they still made some very poor choices.   

[mythoughtis]

12 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I’ve known some men willing to pay a grown woman ‘s tuition, so that part in itself doesn’t bother me.

That alone wouldn’t bother me  whether it was male supporting female or the opposite.  But this character wasn’t pulling his fair share in other areas.  Jackie was doing everything while he just sat there and accepted it as his due.  

If someone is coughing up their money, time and/or skills to support you.  Then you should be supportive back.  Do the dishes, run the vacuum, run their errands while they work, cook, etc.  not everyone brings money to the relationship - but add something else then. 

Treat your partner with some respect and acknowledge what they are doing for you.  He could have done that and still maintained his  dignity and equal footing. Instead he treated Jackie as less than him while expecting her to support him. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by mythoughtis
Spelling

[ljenkins782]

On 12/13/2018 at 2:22 PM, BeachDays said:

I don’t think Darlene was out of line with what she said to Harris.   She wants the best for her kids and for them to not head down the wrong path.   The issue itself was that Harris was drinking and saying calm down mom, I’m getting awesome grades.   Darlene wasn’t saying she herself is perfect, but rather just wanting Harris to make better decisions.  

I thought it was awful to openly use Becky as the cautionary tale, especially since Becky heard it. I know Darlene didn’t know she was there, but it isn’t a nice idea to impart to your kids that you think their aunt lives a worthless life.

[BeachDays]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought it was awful to openly use Becky as the cautionary tale, especially since Becky heard it. I know Darlene didn’t know she was there, but it isn’t a nice idea to impart to your kids that you think their aunt lives a worthless life.

 

Yeah it was awful and Darlene learned that by the end.   I like that this sitcom shows people making mistakes and then growing from it-  just like real life.   

[mojito]

I just had this thought about DJ. I don't know what he's doing now, but it would be interesting to see him go white collar on the family and see the contrast between him and his wife and daughter and the other Conners.

Does Darlene's slouching bug anyone else? Geez, her posture is awful. (Also,  I miss her old nose. This one is just too nose jobby looking.)

[BeachDays]

My guess is the slouch at this point isn’t just her hunching, but probably she lost muscle tone and needs to work to get a straight back.   It happens a lot with moms unfortunately and she is so tiny she probably has been using counterbalance for years to pick up her kids.   

Regarding her nose-  I actually love it and thinks it looks pretty cute.   Not that I am for plastic surgery usually but I’m not taken distracted by her nose.   

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

I just had this thought about DJ. I don't know what he's doing now, but it would be interesting to see him go white collar on the family and see the contrast between him and his wife and daughter and the other Conners.

I don't recall which episode it was but DJ is a vending machine maintenance guy.  It was a scene in the garage, maybe the one where Dan was needing extra help hanging drywall.   

[Colorado David]

finally recognized Ben as Stan from Mad Men. doh!

On 12/14/2018 at 6:28 PM, BeachDays said:

 

Yeah it was awful and Darlene learned that by the end.   I like that this sitcom shows people making mistakes and then growing from it-  just like real life.   

agreed. if you're gonna use the 'do you wanna end up like' line, use someone out of the family, or somebody famous.

[snarts]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:09 AM, Vixenstud said:

LMAO!  I still blush when I share my plans regarding a certain Christopher Peter Meloni with my ma.

VIXENSTUD, I'm beginning to think we have the same taste in men.

Loved this episode. While not a big fan of Becky's pregnancy, I enjoy every scene with her & Darlene.

[Pete Martell]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:09 AM, CrystalBlue said:

I'm not loving Ben the Boyfriend Boss so far.  As we've all hashed over, he's either a controlling, domineering man aka an Alpha Male (?) and/or Darlene is a rude, obnoxious, ready-for-a-fight Alpha Female (?).  (Question marks are because that's not what I think of when defining Alphas.)  Despite the hasty entry into intimacy and a walk-out dinner date, Darlene is still working for him and they're still dating.  OK.  Ben's criticism of Darlene not ready to commit "because she's vulnerable" was a little too early in the game for me.  Why should Darlene be committing to this guy so soon?  Then he turns around and says she doesn't really know if he's married; that's how well they know each other.

I felt like he mostly said that stuff because Becky and Darlene were laying into him as part of their introducing him to bruising Conner family interaction, so he joined in. 

[CrystalBlue]

2 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I felt like he mostly said that stuff because Becky and Darlene were laying into him as part of their introducing him to bruising Conner family interaction, so he joined in. 

Yes, they were laying into him, so he had to defend himself with something, but that's what he came up with.  ;)  :)

[ljenkins782]

22 hours ago, Colorado David said:

finally recognized Ben as Stan from Mad Men. doh!

OMG, thank you!!! That has been bugging me forever, yet I was too lazy to look it up. I knew he was familiar, I just couldn't place him.

22 hours ago, Colorado David said:

Quote

Yeah it was awful and Darlene learned that by the end.   I like that this sitcom shows people making mistakes and then growing from it-  just like real life. 

agreed. if you're gonna use the 'do you wanna end up like' line, use someone out of the family, or somebody famous.

The thing about it is that it's not a comment that you can get over easily and it's actually a little bit worse that Darlene didn't say it to her face. It's very revealing about how Darlene really feels about Becky and that would cut very deep, I'm not sure Darlene really seemed to grasp exactly how bad it was.

[Dee]

What makes it even worse is that Becky has always been supportive of Darlene.

[jsbt]

I would characterize the Becky/Darlene relationship as multi-faceted (and a lot deeper and richer and more positive now than probably ever before, as it's become part of the backbone of the new show) but I would definitely not call it 'always supportive' from either side.

Edited December 17, 2018 by jsbt

[Colorado David]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

I would characterize the Becky/Darlene relationship as multi-faceted (and a lot deeper and richer and more positive now than probably ever before, as it's become part of the backbone of the new show) but I would definitely not call it 'always supportive' from either side.

very agree with this. supportive at times, but definitely at odds the other times. I'd say they disagree on things a lot more than they agree on things. JMO.

[BeachDays]

I see them disagreeing, bc as Becky said, they are very different people, but I do think the genuine love and support is there.   They will still mess up but it’s a relationship that is a lot stronger than I would have thought from the original series, and that makes me all the more invested.   

 

Also I just realized-  if anyone is young (or old) and just started watching the show this season-  they wouldn’t have any idea that Mark and David were brothers.   Was it even mentioned in Roseanne season 10?  I can’t remember.  

[jhlipton]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:13 AM, willowk said:

I enjoyed the re-enacting how Vikings lived,

I hated that part.  I know more about Viking society than someone supposedly getting their Masters!  Viking women were equals in almost all aspects, and would never have stood for that sh*t!  Also, they ha copper, zinc and nickel, which meant they had forks and knives.  I know a lot of it was for comedy, but I wish they'd gone for a different group.

[Dee]

Becky has never denigrated Darlene, like Darlene has to Becky.

Becky often teased Darlene for being a tomboy, but her intentions weren't mean.

Darlene was always exceedingly cruel & judgmental towards Becky.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Darlene was always exceedingly cruel & judgmental towards Becky.

No, they had the typical sibling relationship until Original Recipe Becky left.  (With their goodbye exemplifying their relationship, where they exchanged I love yous and then segued into the Wind Beneath My Wings joke and ended with the pitch perfect See ya, Bubble Butt/Later, Morticia exchange.)  It was when New Coke Becky returned that there was no longer any affection or good-natured ribbing underlying the exchanges, and Darlene was just straight-up mean, all the time.  Which was typical of Darlene during that time; after she went to Chicago, she was such an ass she was practically sociopathic.  Thankfully, the revival and, especially, this spin-off have added additional dimensions back in.  What Becky overheard wouldn't have hurt her so much if that was still the way Darlene constantly talked about her; it was because she didn't believe that was how Darlene really thought about her that it was a gut punch. 

And I love that it showed the difference between self deprecation and hearing someone else tear you down for the same thing -- Becky offering herself up as a cautionary tale to Mark ("I was really smart, too, and look what happened") played quite differently than overhearing Darlene use her as one in talking to Harris.

[Pete Martell]

I kept thinking there was a new episode this week, but that apparently isn't the case. 

I still can't believe we're in 2018 and Jackie Harris is back on television after two decades...and she's arguing with Matthew Broderick while wearing cosplay Avonlea nightwear.

Never let anyone tell you this hasn't been a strange year. 

[jsbt]

Lecy Goranson has so quickly become a major part of the backbone of this ensemble again that it astonishes me. It does my heart good after years of seeing Becky marginalized - and I don't think it's all a Becky v. Darlene thing, because Sara has been incredibly strong since the show returned last season and I think they are complementary characters and equally important. But when I see thinkpieces or tweets calling Becky a huge part of the heart of the new show... that did not happen once Lecy left the original series, with possibly some animosity over her choice to go to school. (Something Roseanne always denied, but which was rumored at the time because of several factors, and which Lecy seemed to quietly confirm in interviews last season.)

Roseanne always super-identified with Sara/Darlene in the latter half of the original show, and made Darlene Roseanne's heir apparent, and that's fine. But Becky was discarded with the recast and Lecy was not back long enough. Frankly I'm not sure this more broad perspective on Becky could have happened with Roseanne still around. So seeing Becky become such a prime player makes me so happy.

[Crs97]

I was an an estate planning and probate attorney for years.  The rule of thumb in our office was the harder the gentleman cried during the first meeting after his wife’s death, the faster he would be remarried, sometimes within the year.  The widows did not remarry quickly, and they always seemed surprised if they ended up remarrying years after their late husband passed.

[Pallas]

It's said that those who were happiest being married, remarry most quickly. Another perspective is that those who both need and expect a live-in companion, or a live-in caretaker, remarry most quickly. In my experience, both observations are true. 

[jhlipton]

As another bit of anecdata, my mom loved my dad but wouldn't let anyone call him a saint.  She dated for a while a couple of years after he died, but never found anyone who could measure up.

[Meushell]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:19 AM, jhlipton said:

I hated that part.  I know more about Viking society than someone supposedly getting their Masters!  Viking women were equals in almost all aspects, and would never have stood for that sh*t!  Also, they ha copper, zinc and nickel, which meant they had forks and knives.  I know a lot of it was for comedy, but I wish they'd gone for a different group.

I think that was supposed to be Jackie being Giligan Jackie. Like, she somehow thought using a knife she didn’t make herself was cheating. Her boyfriend buying a fish seemed to be fair game to me. Him bringing it to her to clean and cook was another issue, but it got her to finally stand up for herself. 

[Hellohappylife]

On 12/12/2018 at 9:10 AM, gesundheit said:

Loved that. LOVED the Becky/Darlene scenes. I think I even teared up a bit. When Becky said, "My husband DIED!" it was finally an exhale.

I loved that scene,especially being someone who Has watched the original series so many times.

Back when Darlene was going thru that dark teenage phase & Becky was left to do all of the chores, laundry,dishes,,taking DJ to sports,cooking dinner etc etc meanwhile Darlene was allowed to sit on the couch. 

Darlene during those days has always came  Off as being someone who always thought the issues they were going threw hurt way more then anyone else’s

It was nice to see Becky speak up about her own pain.  I’m not minimizing the situation or telling Darlene to get over her failed marriage but Darlene has to understand that your spouse dying vs divorcing hurts on a way deeper level then divorce. Becky will never see mark again. Darlene atleast has a chance to get back with David based on the fact that he’s still alive. 

[KariLois]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:02 AM, Bronzedog said:

I don't think it's weird that Katey Sagal's character would be attracted to Dan.  Jackie, I think, said they had known each other since high school.  The character said something like she had always had a crush on him but Roseanne had gotten to him first.   She probably sees him in a different light that someone who had just met him might.

I totally agree.  And let us never forget that Dan Conner is truly the best man ever.

[methodwriter85]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:32 PM, KariLois said:

I don't think it's weird that Katey Sagal's character would be attracted to Dan.  Jackie, I think, said they had known each other since high school.  The character said something like she had always had a crush on him but Roseanne had gotten to him first.   She probably sees him in a different light that someone who had just met him might.

We also have to remember that she's a 60-something woman living in a small town. She's not a rich divorcee living in a big city who could meet lots of guys of an appropriate age and attractiveness level.

[SmithW6079]

On 12/27/2018 at 9:02 PM, methodwriter85 said:

We also have to remember that she's a 60-something woman living in a small town. She's not a rich divorcee living in a big city who could meet lots of guys of an appropriate age and attractiveness level.

Or even hire some hot young gigolos to provide companionship. 

[UYI]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:30 PM, jsbt said:

Lecy Goranson has so quickly become a major part of the backbone of this ensemble again that it astonishes me. It does my heart good after years of seeing Becky marginalized - and I don't think it's all a Becky v. Darlene thing, because Sara has been incredibly strong since the show returned last season and I think they are complementary characters and equally important. But when I see thinkpieces or tweets calling Becky a huge part of the heart of the new show... that did not happen once Lecy left the original series, with possibly some animosity over her choice to go to school. (Something Roseanne always denied, but which was rumored at the time because of several factors, and which Lecy seemed to quietly confirm in interviews last season.)

Roseanne always super-identified with Sara/Darlene in the latter half of the original show, and made Darlene Roseanne's heir apparent, and that's fine. But Becky was discarded with the recast and Lecy was not back long enough. Frankly I'm not sure this more broad perspective on Becky could have happened with Roseanne still around. So seeing Becky become such a prime player makes me so happy.

All of this. Lecy's Becky has always been my favorite character, so this is like a dream come true for me. 

[Colorado David]

19 hours ago, UYI said:

All of this. Lecy's Becky has always been my favorite character, so this is like a dream come true for me. 

this. lecy is wonderful.

[CherryAmes]

On 12/11/2018 at 9:18 PM, Concerned said:

The premise of 8 Simple Rules was womanizing Jack Tripper from Threes Company has grown up with daughters of his own. When Ritter died, the show jumped the shark just like the Conners has. 8 Simple Rules was haunted by John Ritter; the Conners is haunted by Rosanne.

I loved 8 Simple Rules and this description isn't even close!  Also, "jumping the shark" usually means a show pulls some big stunt that is just beyond ridiculous to bring in the viewers.  That didn't happen on 8 Simples Rules and it's not happening on The Conners.  I think it is a fair point though to compare the two shows as both ended up dealing with the death of the central character.  8 Simple Rules was good enough in the year Ritter died (after only being in a couple of episodes BTW) that the show got renewed.  The third season though wasn't good and the show was pulled.  Time will tell, of course, if that's the fate in store for The Conners.  Given the quality of the shows so far I'm pretty confident it's going to get a second season - especially since it's still being watched by the haters who are dying to see it fail and can't seem to figure out that the powers that be don't care why people are watching just as long as they're watching!

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

especially since it's still being watched by the haters who are dying to see it fail and can't seem to figure out that the powers that be don't care why people are watching just as long as they're watching!

Speaking on a general level, I wish more TV viewers who continue to watch shows they claim they're tired of and hate and whatnot would realize this fact. 

[marriedaniac]

On 12/13/2018 at 2:56 PM, ljenkins782 said:

Earlier today, I saw someone here mention Ed O'Neill making a cameo on this show and I just now happened to catch an episode of Modern Family where David Faustino (aka Bud Bundy) made a cameo, lol. I always thought he was under-rated (and he looks exactly the same), it was good to see him back again. Unfortunately, it was a role that didn't have any interaction with Ed O'Neill, but I have to imagine he got him the role.

Surprisingly, Faustino had to AUDITION for that MF role!

And yes, an Ed cameo on The Conners would be awesome. But I am still waiting for Katey Sagal to appear on Modern Family...

[bigskygirl]

On 12/13/2018 at 12:57 AM, Marley said:

Like Darlene should be criticizing anyone’s life. It’s not like she’s some big success. She has like a part time job at some arrest magazine. She annoys me.

I wish they would tone down Jackie she’s way too over the top. I’m still mad they erased her son.

Are they ever going to talk about the youngest Conner son again? He was on a fishing boat like at the beginning of the reboot.

The actress playing Harris still annoys me but her dating a cop line cracked me up.

I so agree about Darlene. She quit her full time waitress job and expects her boss she is sleeping with to give her benefits and insurance after leaving the waitress job where she was getting some decent pay and insurance for herself and kids. She puts down DJ who served his country in the military and is raising his daughter while his wife is still in a war zone. Becky may have her faults, but she is a much better person, imo, than Darlene is.

Jackie is a pain in the behind too.

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I so agree about Darlene. She quit her full time waitress job and expects her boss she is sleeping with to give her benefits and insurance after leaving the waitress job where she was getting some decent pay and insurance for herself and kids. She puts down DJ who served his country in the military and is raising his daughter while his wife is still in a war zone. Becky may have her faults, but she is a much better person, imo, than Darlene is.

Jackie is a pain in the behind too.

I agree about Darlene.  She doesn't have room to criticize and the snark about turning out like Becky was pot meet kettle to me.  I still enjoy Jackie though!

[Nordly Beaumont]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:45 PM, CherryAmes said:

Also, "jumping the shark" usually means a show pulls some big stunt that is just beyond ridiculous to bring in the viewers.

Ah, thank you! This phrase gets used to mean everything from "this episode was boring" to "the show isn't as good as it was" - No, it has an actual meaning! Drives me nuts.

[lookeyloo]

21 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Ah, thank you! This phrase gets used to mean everything from "this episode was boring" to "the show isn't as good as it was" - No, it has an actual meaning! Drives me nuts.

And it was Fonzie who jumped the shark, right?  Wearing his leather boots on the water skis?

[Nordly Beaumont]

50 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

And it was Fonzie who jumped the shark, right?  Wearing his leather boots on the water skis?

Yep! Leather jacket, but you got it!

[peacheslatour]

16 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Yep! Leather jacket, but you got it!

That was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever seen.

[tessaray]

58 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

That was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever seen.

Yup. Which is why it earned its spot in television history. :-)