19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[floridamom]

"Aaaaannnd um aaaaannnnd um" was what I hear a lot of here from Anna. Josh was the expert to know that 'how to kiss' was on Google...little did Anna realize at that time.

The "I'm so in love" and then breaking up after that as Mr. Kellar described is quite normal for 'normal' people...that infatuation stage goes away and it's puppy love in middle school we're talking about here. In their courtship/marriage fast paced situation, you MARRY that person you're 'SO IN LOVE WITH'. What happens after that infatuation stage goes away and you're stuck with a spouse you really didn't know? I love how Mrs. Kellar states that the guy is accountable to the girl's father and had better tow the line....does that accountability go away after he marries your daughter? Isn't Josh still accountable to Anna's father for what HE did to HIS DAUGHTER?

This video was so ironic to listen to years later knowing what we know now about those two.

[Sew Sumi]

Anna managed both a crinkly perm and greasy bangs. I forgot just how awful that fundie trend was. 

Mike Keller can take several seats for selling Anna to a known child molester then spouting his Gothardisms about courtship. I can't believe he was just 50 then; he looked 60.  

[heckkitty]

On 7/23/2017 at 8:07 AM, ginger90 said:

Blah, blah, blah. And how did it all work out?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npxjuh6UyT4

Well that was a pile of cringeworthy nonsense. These people have no shame; they probably aren't even embarrassed to see this crap again, knowing what he was up to the show damn time. 

[PaTatertots]

Totally new to this forum! Please forgive the lack of the super cool acronyms and nicknames, I'll figure it put eventually. :)

They just bug me in general. My mom started watching them waaay back when it was 14 or 16 kids and they've been my go-to hatewatch ever since. She decided one day that we were also going to dress "modestly" and pulled us out of school to homeschool us and took away tv privileges and kept the radio on what I call "church organ opera" because she just loooved the Duggars. 

 

At some point she corresponded with Mrs. Jiminybillybob over email about raising a teen girl and two boys and how to keep us modest and pure.  Mrs. Jiminybillybob told her that we should not be alone with the opposite sex, court with an adult chaperone (since I was 13, had a boyfriend and wanted to go to a movie. Gasp!), I needed to start learning how to be a servant to a household and submissive to a husband, no walking out of your bedroom in pjs, let alone put to the mailbox, the neighbors might have impure thoughts! I've always liked my hair reasonably long, but I was forbidden from even a trim from age 13 to 18, I had at least 2 feet of dead ends when I finally moved out. 

 

  I didn't mind learning to cook, sew, knit, clean, shop for a family on a budget (this broke college kid made $50 for food last a month, dad.) or grow and can my own veggies and grapes. I hated homeschooling. I was in public middle school, at a sophomore level for core subjects, and in a college level english course. I got yanked out and "got to" take 4th grade levels with my brothers so we were all on one level of learning. When the state told my mother she would either have to send me back or get age appropriate work, she (at Michelle's suggestion) bought a computer curriculum that was 90% Bible, 5% math, 1% basic "this is how a plant grows" and 4% reading Christian literature and writing a book report. Thankfully, my state didn't allow her to "teach" me through high school because she only has a high school diploma. 

  I hated that she really laid on the "Don't date because that means you're going to ger married. Don't ever leave two kids alone because, duh, they'll have sex." With my mother. Any boyfriend was just "PaTaterTots' friend from school", never referred to by name. Should've seen their faces when I was 21, living with my boyfriend  (now husband) and pregnant. 

 

I also still get irritated when I go to visit my parent's church and look up at the wall where Michelle put a hole in it. They fixed it...a week or two later when someone pointed it out.

[riverblue22]

Glad you got out!  I'm glad you learned some useful stuff in spite of it all--I don't think Michelle taught her daughters many practical things aside from tater tot casserole and thrift shopping~

[PaTatertots]

Just now, riverblue22 said:

Glad you got out!  I'm glad you learned some useful stuff in spite of it all--I don't think Michelle taught her daughters many practical things aside from tater tot casserole and thrift shopping~

Thankfully my parents got a huge wakeup call when I moved out! I invited them to my church (the one from the Bates wedding) and they've never left and are totally normal now. They constantly apologize years later for all of those Duggar suggested shenanigans.

 

  I kinda wanna lasso a few of the younger Dgirls out of the yard and keep them, teach them useful life skills and let 'em free into the world. Maybe I can lure them with some pickles.

[Jellybeans]

@PaTatertots Thanks for sharing your experience.  I am glad you got out and your parents woke up.  I look forward to reading more of your posts.  

[riverblue22]

16 hours ago, PaTatertots said:

Thankfully my parents got a huge wakeup call when I moved out! I invited them to my church (the one from the Bates wedding) and they've never left and are totally normal now. They constantly apologize years later for all of those Duggar suggested shenanigans.

 

  I kinda wanna lasso a few of the younger Dgirls out of the yard and keep them, teach them useful life skills and let 'em free into the world. Maybe I can lure them with some pickles.

Have your parents got over the idea of girls being only wives and subservient to the husband?  Are they okay with working women?

[PaTatertots]

15 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

Have your parents got over the idea of girls being only wives and subservient to the husband?  Are they okay with working women?

 They were actually okay with working women before all of that! My mom worked as a nurse and at the time, my sister was in college and working in radio. I was allowed to get a part time job at 14, but only worked 15 total hours over 2 days and I worked with older ladies so I wasn't at risk for being influenced by kids my age that I'd grown up with. I got to keep all but 75% of my tiny, biweekly paycheck, but never got to spend it on things a teen would want. It was all put into the offerings during home church visits. 

 

 I'm not completely convinced my mom really thought the whole "women are lesser than" deal would ever stick with me. It definitely didn't apply to her, and I'm a very headstrong and blunt personality, sweet and *ahem* "available for your man" are not my strong points. Michelle would probably have a stroke if she walked into my house and saw my husband going to bed without sex after preparing his own dinner and washing his own work clothes. 

 

 They got a big enough fight from me over their interpretation of modesty  (turtlenecks under short sleeves in summer and long, heavy skirts. My brothers' wardrobes never changed.) that they quite possibly gave up. I did get threatened with being sent to some ultra-Christian girl's boarding program, was sent on several mission trips and the like, but my lessons on how to be submissive and a baby maker completely stopped. I didn't even get a Birds and Bees talk and was convinced I was dying when I got my first period. I waddled around in granny pads under my loose and high-waisted jeans because mom was told tampons were basically for sinners. My doctor almost called child services because they refused to put me on birth control, if your 14 or 15 year old spends 2 weeks in bed turning green and gray and bleeding through sheets, something needs to be done to help her,  not "praying it away" as Michelle told them to do. No matter how many times I was told they were praying in numbers, I didn't miraculously jump up and start catering to my brothers.

 

 I think they got their religious explorations out of their systems. During that time we also went to a church that used poisonous snakes, burned themselves with fire, spoke in tongues, and drank poison during services.  Noped right outta plenty of those services.  Now they're comitted Southern Baptists, which cracks me up because during those years "Baptists are going to hell."

 

 And I bet you already guessed my first boyfriend's parents decided mine were absolutely bananas and made him dump me. 

[Jellybeans]

Wow @PaTatertots I am without words. I can see you have a lot of spunk and good humor.  You also tell your story without bitterness.  I am enjoying hearing about it.  We all come from different backgrounds and I am learning a lot from you. 

[PaTatertots]

25 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Wow @PaTatertots I am without words. I can see you have a lot of spunk and good humor.  You also tell your story without bitterness.  I am enjoying hearing about it.  We all come from different backgrounds and I am learning a lot from you. 

 It's better to look back and be able to laugh than look back and stay angry! I think my sense of humor kept me from drinking the koolaid and from throwing myself off a cliff.  But in little Anderson county Tennessee,  a boat dock would've had to do. I still get irritated thinking about it all some days, but then I remember that we didn't stay that way, I'm not stuck waiting fora husband to drop out of a tornado and land on my doorstep, I have an education and I get to actually see the world as it is! I get to see that people from all backgrounds are amazing, and generally accepting of others, not a buncha defrauding heathens with devil horns hiding in dark corners. 

 I did make a friend in our homeschool group that dove headfirst into the culty-koolaid. We're the same age, but she seems like she's 40. I went back to public school, graduated college, dated, had jobs, drank, smoked pot once and bought my own house. She decided to stay in her skirts and knee-length hair after completing her GED and stayed home with her younger siblings while three of them got married before her. She met a boy at church  (she'd only leave home for church or Costco runs. They also have a huge family, though not as big as the Duggar or Bates clans) and they got married a few months later after "courting" over text and emails and moved to another state. They didn't have any physical contact whatsoever until their wedding kiss, and I had to explain to her before she left for her honeymoon what sex actually was. I am 27 and have a six year old and a newborn and she's 27 and pregnant with her fourth. We both had our first kids the same year at 21, and she's halfway to a peewee football team.Nobody else in her family is like her, which kind of makes me sad. Her parents let all of their children make their own choices in life and she "likes" being a submissive baby machine, she has such a talent for painting, but she hasn't done itnsince her switch flipped. She never went to college, never came to parties or movies, took up piano and only plays classical or hymns, doesn't have the internet for anything other than email or social media and she uses "special" "praise god"  "blessing" and "wonderful/wonderous" as if they're used in everyday conversation. That makes me really upset to think of what she could've been. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

@PaTatertots, I'm reading all your stories with rapt attention and so happy you escaped the crazy and are now enjoying the life you wanted to have. I grew up in East Texas and experienced the crazy of extreme IFB when I was very young. Even though I only had a pinky toe in the pool, that was more than enough to make me realize that though most of them were nice people, they had some very toxic beliefs indeed. Sadly, most of them didn't realize how drunk on the Koolaid they were, and many of them missed out on a lot. Many of them could have been so much more.

[ChiCricket]

On 8/31/2017 at 7:09 PM, PaTatertots said:

I also still get irritated when I go to visit my parent's church and look up at the wall where Michelle put a hole in it. They fixed it...a week or two later when someone pointed it out.

Did I miss you saying how/why Michelle put a hole in your church's wall?

Edited September 2, 2017 by ChiCricket
'Cuz

[PaTatertots]

37 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

Did I miss you saying how/why Michelle put a hole in your church's wall?

I remember it was on an episode where they were helping decorate for a Bates wedding. I had noticed the hole before I'd seen the episode. She was either hanging something up or taking it off to move it and said "Oh no! I tore off the paint!" *insert Michelle laugh* the paint in that entry is beige, and that spot was at the 2nd floor landing, but the actual hole was big enough that you could see it from below. I don't think they (probably the Bateses? Since it was one of the older girls' weddings) said anything about it because our pastor and maintenance crew were there a week or so later during youth group filling and painting over the hole.

 They usually hung a gigantic wreath there at Christmas, but they've always used those Command strips.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, ChiCricket said:

Did I miss you saying how/why Michelle put a hole in your church's wall?

She put a hole in a church wall while "helping" set up one of the Bateses' weddings. The OP seems to live in that neck of the woods. I wonder if it's the same?

[cmr2014]

There is nothing that infuriates me more than these videos of JB and J'chelle and "blessings" and totting up their grandchildren. These people are TERRIBLE PARENTS.

J'chelle had a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN after the first handful of kids, and somehow read this as God wanting her to have more children.

Josh is a sexual predator and an adulterer.

Jill's marriage is a disaster, and she appears to be on the verge of a breakdown after 2 kids.

Jill and Jessa have 4 kids and 3 dangerous births between them.

Their nineteen year old daughter just got married and is already pregnant.

Other than (possibly) Austin, none of their sons-in-law have any means of supporting their wives -- much less a brood of children.

How is any of this good? How is another "blessing" coming into this clusterfuck a good idea? What are they so proud of?

[Arwen Evenstar]

13 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

? What are they so proud of?

Duh!  They're the bestest Famiky ever and God likes them better than us heathens.

[Jellybeans]

I have so many questions to ask...but I don't know where to begin.  Do you keep in touch with your friend?  Is she allowed to visit you, etc... and how has your experience shaped your views on going to Church, etc?  

[PaTatertots]

5 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

I have so many questions to ask...but I don't know where to begin.  Do you keep in touch with your friend?  Is she allowed to visit you, etc... and how has your experience shaped your views on going to Church, etc?  

:) You can ask!

 

 We keep in touch pretty regularly, mostly over text, emails and phone calls because she refuses to Skype. She's always been more than welcome to visit my home, but prefers meeting in public when she's in town. I live less than 5 minutes from a major shopping area, and she doesn't like driving in it (she really doesn't drive at all and says men should always drive), so we usually meet in restaurants or downtown where it isn't terribly crowded during the day. Her husband is super nice, he works for a great company and takes excellent care of her and their family, takes them on cool vacations and seems to be able to attend most school programs. He was a Presbyterian missionary when they met, so I'm not entirely sure how he feels about her choice of beliefs. 

 

  With all of the church bouncing, I personally don't attend as much as I probably should and definitely not as often as my parents would like. One thing that stood out to me during it all was how everyone said everyone else was wrong and going to hell. My mom was raised Catholic, but that was wrong. My dad was raised in a "pick your own church and we'll take you" family. Every church of every denomination we visited said everything but their way was the work of the devil. In high school I was told to stop sneaking out and be like the youth pastor's daughters, they were so Christian like, ladylike and sweet virgins! In reality, they were the first ones wasted at the party, one had multiple pregnancy scares and the other actually lived with her much older boyfriend. I'd see adults acting angelic and claiming to follow the 10 Commandments on Sunday morning and see them drunk and cussing like a sailor at 9 a.m. on Tuesday. 

 

 The pastor there would often go over time ranting against all followers of Islam, painting them as the horrible people that are all out to destroy anything in their path. But as a housekeeper, I had two families that followed the teachings, they were amazing! My teammate and I arrived very late one night  during their holy month and they welcomed us to join them in prayer and breaking their fast. I will tell you I never cry, let alone in church, but that night I sat there in tears. It was so beautiful! I wasn't forced to wear a hijab or chopped up into tiny pieces. I was welcomed with open arms, was offered had a hijab put on by a very sweet great grandmother who explained it's significance to her and treated like a guest, not a bother! That is how people should be, no matter what they choose to believe or who they decide to worship, and that's how I am now. If someone believes in god and is having a rough time, I'll talk to them about god. If they believe in aliens, by golly, let's talk about it! I have friends that belong to a Church of Satan group, and I find them to be some of the most interesting and kind people!

[BetyBee]

I know we've talked about the Duggar/Fundie use of "fellowshipping" as a verb.  Today at a social committee meeting, our resident fundie stated re the activity at an upcoming work event..."We'll fellowship and eat pie."  It was hard not to bust a gut laughing!  I'm not going to fellowship.  I think I'll snark and eat pie.  That's practically the same thing, right?

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I know we've talked about the Duggar/Fundie use of "fellowshipping" as a verb.  Today at a social committee meeting, our resident fundie stated re the activity at an upcoming work event..."We'll fellowship and eat pie."  It was hard not to bust a gut laughing!  I'm not going to fellowship.  I think I'll snark and eat pie.  That's practically the same thing, right?

I would have been hard pressed not to say, 'Can't we just hang out together, eat pie, and act silly?'

[Natalie68]

On 7/24/2017 at 6:44 PM, heckkitty said:

Well that was a pile of cringeworthy nonsense. These people have no shame; they probably aren't even embarrassed to see this crap again, knowing what he was up to the show damn time. 

So young.  And Josh is so gross!  Between the pickle and the long tongue I felt the crew was snarking a bit.

[Teriyaki Terror]

On 9/1/2017 at 11:18 PM, cmr2014 said:

There is nothing that infuriates me more than these videos of JB and J'chelle and "blessings" and totting up their grandchildren. These people are TERRIBLE PARENTS.

J'chelle had a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN after the first handful of kids, and somehow read this as God wanting her to have more children.

Josh is a sexual predator and an adulterer.

Jill's marriage is a disaster, and she appears to be on the verge of a breakdown after 2 kids.

Jill and Jessa have 4 kids and 3 dangerous births between them.

Their nineteen year old daughter just got married and is already pregnant.

Other than (possibly) Austin, none of their sons-in-law have any means of supporting their wives -- much less a brood of children.

How is any of this good? How is another "blessing" coming into this clusterfuck a good idea? What are they so proud of?

What's up with Jill's marriage?  And her husband used to be an accountant for Wal-Mart. If he ever needed a "real job" he could get one.

[Arwen Evenstar]

16 minutes ago, Teriyaki Terror said:

What's up with Jill's marriage?  And her husband used to be an accountant for Wal-Mart. If he ever needed a "real job" he could get one.

That’s exactly why he gets the snark he gets. I guess it’s hard to go anywhere when you have a barnacle around your neck. He married a Stage 5 Clinger who wont let him go take a crap in peace, much less be away for a work day.

[funky-rat]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:55 PM, louannems said:

I really, really hate seeing people pray aloud in restaurants!  And my parents are the worst!  They insist that everyone HOLD HANDS while praying!  Can someone tell me how I can delicately refrain from getting pushed into participating?  I don't pray at home, and I despise pretending to at a restaurant!

I'm late to the party, but I'm in agreement on this, and not really sure how to excuse yourself, and say "I may be a few moments - go ahead and start without me".

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:47 AM, jilliannatalia said:

That's totally awkward. Probably the only two viable outs are showing up late, as another poster suggested, or, as still another poster suggested, excusing  yourself to use the restroom as they go into prayer mode.  Subtlety won't work; you'll have to come right out and tell them to pray without you, or they'll postpone the prayer until you return. If they ignore your wishes anyway and postpone the prayer circle until after you return, be bold and excuse yourself  again to visit the restroom.  If you outlast them, they'll be forced to get the point..

My in-laws do this, and I find it to be a form of sanctimony. Jesus  himself said not to make a public display of praying ("don't pray on street corners but in your closet"). It's easy enough to say a silent prayer without making everyone around you uncomfortable.

Mr. Funky and I were in a restaurant on Sunday a few weeks ago.  There were two people in there that I just knew to steer clear of.  They were both very large (I'm a bigger gal, as is hubby, so no judgement for that specifically) and were dressed like it was 1895 - prairie modest.  She had very old fashioned hair.  They were driving a ratty mini van with handicapped plates.  We purposely sat away from them, but that didn't stop them from talking very loudly at anyone who came close to making eye contact.  Over and over we heard the story about how they used to eat at another restaurant every Sunday (no name mentioned) but they had to stop because there were people making fun of them in this other restaurant for praying, and the war on Christianity is real, blah blah blah.  Staff and management wouldn't do anything about people making fun of them, so they left.  I just nodded, but they're so full of crap.  I live in a somewhat religious area.  Not at all uncommon to see people praying before eating.  Heck, a number of restaurants here are closed on Sunday.  But I'd believe they were praying loudly, or making a scene, or trying to have people pray with them, etc.  Neither of them could hardly walk - had to hang on to our chairs and table (I really hate that - I'm always afraid they'll fall, and take my chair and me with them).  And even still, I wouldn't believe any staff at any restaurant would still ask them to stop or make fun of them (out loud, any way).  Someone probably gave them a side eye, and that was all she wrote.

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:23 AM, Arwen Evenstar said:

That’s exactly why he gets the snark he gets. I guess it’s hard to go anywhere when you have a barnacle around your neck. He married a Stage 5 Clinger who wont let him go take a crap in peace, much less be away for a work day.

Yep.  I recall reading an article that alleged he lost his job because she took him lunch every...single...day.  I recall the leghumpers freaking out, saying they can't do that.  Yes, they can.  If she's there, and especially overstaying his welcome, or causing him to spend any working time with his wife, he's fair game.  Mr. Funky used to work at a truck stop.  My car broke down on the way home from college once, and I nursed it there, and hung out, not interfering with his job duties, until he was done.  He was called in the next day and told that he's not permitted to "hang out with his girlfriend instead of working", and given a written reprimand.  He asked what he should have done re: my broken down car.  He was told that he should have told me to take his car home, and then come back to pick him up later.

[Celia Rubenstein]

On 12/13/2017 at 0:22 PM, funky-rat said:

I'm late to the party, but I'm in agreement on this, and not really sure how to excuse yourself, and say "I may be a few moments - go ahead and start without me".

I'm late to the party, too, but I just want to add that the idea of being pressured into praying at the table is bad enough. I just fake my way through and wait for it to be over. But being expected to grasp hands with someone else before I eat is a deal breaker. I go to the table with clean hands so I can eat my food with clean hands. I don't want to have to touch someone else's potentially grimy mitts in some hokey show of religious uniformity and be forced to eat whatever it was they last touched.  Yuck! 

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I'm late to the party, too, but I just want to add that the idea of being pressured into praying at the table is bad enough. I just fake my way through and wait for it to be over. But being expected to grasp hands with someone else before I eat is a deal breaker. I go to the table with clean hands so I can eat my food with clean hands. I don't want to have to touch someone else's potentially grimy mitts in some hokey show of religious uniformity and be forced to eat whatever it was they last touched.  Yuck! 

My parents-in-law did the praying and the hand-joining thing at holiday meals.  I was always kind of squeamish about it, so I made sure I only took food that could be eaten with my fork, so I wouldn't have to touch it with germ-laden hands.  

[GeeGolly]

Is there a rule that a pre-meal prayer has to be said at the table after the meal is served? I mean I get that in the privacy of a home, but when dining at a restaurant couldn't the prayer be said in the car prior to going into the restaurant? 

Edited December 29, 2017 by GeeGolly

[crazycatlady58]

54 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Is there a rule that a pre-meal prayer has to be said at the table after the meal is served? I mean I get that in the privacy of a home, but when dining at a restaurant couldn't the prayer be said in the car prior to going into the restaurant? 

So I pray before I eat ,most of the time I eat alone  but when I eat with like minded  friends  we either each say a private  prayer before  we eat or  one  of us will say a quiet  prayer. Why is this offensive ?  If you were eating  with me and I knew  you did not wish to pray I would  never force you to pray   I would just bow my head  and say a quick  prayer. 

[zenme]

The old Irish nuns that taught at our parochial school detested the in -restaurant praying. They used to tell us it was a show and that we shouldn't do that, to pray silently instead.  They also used to tell us never to criticize other people's religions, and that just because they wore a habit didn't mean that they were closer to God than any one of us.  God knows what's in our hearts, they said. Love them! Miss them! 

[Lisa418722]

Years ago, I went out with a guy for a few months that I'm pretty sure was gay, but he was so religious that he couldn't admit it to himself, much less anyone else.  He never even held my hand during the time we went out and it got to be a game for me to see if he would ever touch me.  He did make sure to pray before every meal we had together (even though he still didn't hold my hand).  Maybe he wanted everyone to know that he was Religious (capital letter) and he could never be, would never be, gay.   He did try to make sure everyone saw him pray before meals which is what made me uncomfortable.  I grew up with a dad who prayed before every meal when we were at home, but that was the first time I had to deal with someone praying in public out loud.   I think he could belong to the Duggar family - praying in public, unable to admit you are gay.  Sometimes I wonder what ever happened to him, but I'm glad I escaped.

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

So I pray before I eat ,most of the time I eat alone  but when I eat with like minded  friends  we either each say a private  prayer before  we eat or  one  of us will say a quiet  prayer. Why is this offensive ?  If you were eating  with me and I knew  you did not wish to pray I would  never force you to pray   I would just bow my head  and say a quick  prayer. 

I was referring to an earlier post about folks calling attention to themselves praying in restaurants. My question is actually really a question.

I will bow my head in prayer with anyone in their home or mine if that's what they choose. I would, however, feel very uncomfortable doing so in a restaurant. To me prayer is private and intimate and not something to be advertised.

[crazycatlady58]

52 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I was referring to an earlier post about folks calling attention to themselves praying in restaurants. My question is actually really a question.

I will bow my head in prayer with anyone in their home or mine if that's what they choose. I would, however, feel very uncomfortable doing so in a restaurant. To me prayer is private and intimate and not something to be advertised.

I understand , just 2 diffrent ways of looking at it.While   I agree prayer intimate I also look at is a time to talk  with my God where ever I am.

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I was referring to an earlier post about folks calling attention to themselves praying in restaurants. My question is actually really a question.

I will bow my head in prayer with anyone in their home or mine if that's what they choose. I would, however, feel very uncomfortable doing so in a restaurant. To me prayer is private and intimate and not something to be advertised.

My mother asked, in my home, if we minded if she prayed.  I said that it was fine.  She prayed silently, and it wasn't offensive to me or Mr. Xword.  

I pray in private when I feel the need to.  I would never do so in public, especially aloud.  That's just me.  YMMV.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I understand , just 2 diffrent ways of looking at it.While   I agree prayer intimate I also look at is a time to talk  with my God where ever I am.

I know plenty who feel the way you do. Since Texas is a Bible Belt state, it is not uncommon to see people bow their heads before a meal or even pray out loud. In deference to either, I wait to see if anyone at the table is going to do either before I start shoveling.  I’m glad I’ve done that, because sometimes it’s been a line manager or a client. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

18 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I know plenty who feel the way you do. Since Texas is a Bible Belt state, it is not uncommon to see people bow their heads before a meal or even pray out loud. In deference to either, I wait to see if anyone at the table is going to do either before I start shoveling.  I’m glad I’ve done that, because sometimes it’s been a line manager or a client. 

On the other hand, here in CT  you rarely run across people who feel the need to pray outside of church hours, and given that many of them are not churchgoers to start with, it means there's precious little public prayer going on. That was an adjustment for me when we were stationed in GA, as it mostly never occurred to me that there was anything in between being served the food and digging into it (other than waiting for everyone else to be seated and served, of course), and there were more than a couple of times that I picked up a fork only to see heads bowed in prayer around me. It was a bit of a learning curve.

[awaken]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Is there a rule that a pre-meal prayer has to be said at the table after the meal is served? I mean I get that in the privacy of a home, but when dining at a restaurant couldn't the prayer be said in the car prior to going into the restaurant? 

No, because the whole point is to pray publicly and show everyone in the restaurant that you’re not ashamed to talk to god anytime. Praying in the car or privately would not give the opportunity to “witness” to the waitstaff and other customers, and would give the impression of being timid in ones faith (hiding it under a bushel). 

[Celia Rubenstein]

13 hours ago, zenme said:

The old Irish nuns that taught at our parochial school detested the in -restaurant praying. They used to tell us it was a show and that we shouldn't do that, to pray silently instead.  

It does seem like a show to me when people make a big deal out of praying in an eatery.  It seems to be less about thanking God and more about drawing attention to oneself.

The last thing other diners (or the waitstaff) should be subjected to is listening to other people talk to God or tolerate being witnessed to while simply trying to have a quiet supper or earn a living. I think it is presumptuous and intrusive to impose your faith upon bystanders in this way. If they want to hear your religious beliefs, let them visit your church at a time of their own choosing. 

[Sew Sumi]

29 minutes ago, awaken said:

No, because the whole point is to pray publicly and show everyone in the restaurant that you’re not ashamed to talk to god anytime. Praying in the car or privately would not give the opportunity to “witness” to the waitstaff and other customers, and would give the impression of being timid in ones faith (hiding it under a bushel). 

At least by praying aloud, servers know in advance that they'll be getting tracts in lieu of a tip at the end of the meal. 

[MsJamieDornan]

14 hours ago, zenme said:

The old Irish nuns that taught at our parochial school detested the in -restaurant praying. They used to tell us it was a show and that we shouldn't do that, to pray silently instead.  They also used to tell us never to criticize other people's religions, and that just because they wore a habit didn't mean that they were closer to God than any one of us.  God knows what's in our hearts, they said. Love them! Miss them! 

My grans sister was a nun. In her 85 years, never once did I hear her criticize another religion.  The Duggars suck!

Edited December 30, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[DangerousMinds]

11 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It does seem like a show to me when people make a big deal out of praying in an eatery.  It seems to be less about thanking God and more about drawing attention to oneself.

The last thing other diners (or the waitstaff) should be subjected to is listening to other people talk to God or tolerate being witnessed to while simply trying to have a quiet supper or earn a living. I think it is presumptuous and intrusive to impose your faith upon bystanders in this way. If they want to hear your religious beliefs, let them visit your church at a time of their own choosing. 

Right, and would it also be ok if a Muslim patron prayed out loud to Allah?

[xwordfanatik]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

At least by praying aloud, servers know in advance that they'll be getting tracts in lieu of a tip at the end of the meal. 

Good point!  The waitstaff can then S-L-O-W down.  On second thought, it might be best to speed up, to get the prayers the hell out of there!

I've never waited tables, but I am a good tipper.  I'd hate to have to put up with a Duggar-esque group.

[zoomama]

oh you guys!! can't it just be as simple as 'we choose to pray before eating' with no show involved. we are discreet pray-ers when in public. no harm, no foul. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

59 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Right, and would it also be ok if a Muslim patron prayed out loud to Allah?

... or if a group of Pagans formed a circle and loudly thanked Gaia for her bounty, lol.

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to go with a "no" on that, lol. 

[Fosca]

I don't think the above refers to discreet prayers, but to the ones thatt make a big show of their piety, to show how much more they love god and so forth.  There's no need to entertain an entire corner of a restaurant, no matter what your faith (or lack of same).

[Ohiopirate02]

19 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It does seem like a show to me when people make a big deal out of praying in an eatery.  It seems to be less about thanking God and more about drawing attention to oneself.

The last thing other diners (or the waitstaff) should be subjected to is listening to other people talk to God or tolerate being witnessed to while simply trying to have a quiet supper or earn a living. I think it is presumptuous and intrusive to impose your faith upon bystanders in this way. If they want to hear your religious beliefs, let them visit your church at a time of their own choosing. 

It's too bad they forget how Jesus taught how to pray in one of the gospels.   I seem to remember how drawing attention to yourself was wrong.  

[awaken]

10 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Right, and would it also be ok if a Muslim patron prayed out loud to Allah?

Of course not. That would be religious persecution, ie, the War on Christianity.  They would take that as lisence to witness to them. (Speaking as someone brought up fundamentalist). 

Edited December 31, 2017 by awaken

[Libby96]

I have no problem with a quiet prayer of thanks before a meal out, and that goes for people of any religious persuasion.  If other people can hear everything you are saying and you are disrupting other diners, then I would say that is praying for show and goes contrary to what is taught in the New Testament.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Libby96

[DragonFaerie]

On December 13, 2017 at 12:22 PM, funky-rat said:

Yep.  I recall reading an article that alleged he lost his job because she took him lunch every...single...day.  I recall the leghumpers freaking out, saying they can't do that.  Yes, they can.  If she's there, and especially overstaying his welcome, or causing him to spend any working time with his wife, he's fair game.  

Good grief.  Neither, I nor my Mr. Dragon have ever had a job where you could just drop in on the other one.  Many times, I wasn't even allowed to see his office because of the work he did.  He would have to meet me in reception.  I cannot fathom, gathering up 2 babies, getting them loaded into car seats, filling the diaper bags and driving somewhere, just to haul out the 2 small babies, load them into strollers, just to bring Mr. Dragon lunch and then reverse it all to bring them all back home.  How much time does that take?  Plus, you have breakfast and dinner together, I would assume, so I think you can just send him off with a lunch box in the mornings.  

Perhaps she's worried that he will follow in her brother Josh's footsteps and being out in the real world he'll cheat on her?

[DragonFaerie]

What infuriates me?  Let me count the ways:

* Disposable plates and silverware - I cannot fathom the amount of garbage this creates.  They go on and on about being frugal.  Would it not be cheaper to buy like 3 sets of dishes at Walmart or such and just wash them instead of buying the disposable ones constantly and the garbage bags?

*There is a restaurant style soda machine in the kitchen - with more disposable cups and such.  Perhaps this is a reason the Howlers are running around and jumping over furniture? 

*They live on like 20 acres? and with all the family members they do not have a garden.  They also don't have chickens for eggs, or raising 3 or 4 cows a year for beef.  

*Their diet - it's horrific.  It all seems to be frozen from the store, canned or pre-packaged.  Nothing fresh or truly homemade.

*They have a snack fridge.  The kids seem to graze all day without regular meal times and just grab what they want.

*5 year olds share a bedroom with sisters like 20 years older than them

This is just the start.  LOL