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S01.E03: There Won't Be Blood

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4 hours ago, Luciano said:

 That is what Geena's costume reminded me of.

Got to work today and my supervisor was wearing a "this is my halloween costume" shirt. ?

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I am so very much not a Halloween costume person, so if I ever had to wear one for some reason, it would be a brand of "costume" like Geena's shirt.  I hope it wasn't some "people who celebrate Halloween are going to hell!" reason behind her not participating, because I liked it.  I also liked her gleefully going along with Becky's candy swap so long as she got half.

While I'm not into them myself, I appreciate creative costumes on others, so I'm still laughing at Becky's.  I would say she's had some of my favorites over the years, but, really, I've liked just about everything from everyone on this series.

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On 10/30/2018 at 10:41 PM, geauxaway said:

Scary J. Blige.  ?

We got the Halloween costume memo from school today, same as every year (ours includes NO CLOWNS which cracks me up).  I get where they were trying to go with that storyline, but I have a hard time believing any kid would choose Freida Khalo as their Halloween costume.  I get it that Mark is supposed to be unique but this is the 2nd story in the series now that revolves around him and his creativity being stifled (the other being the birdhouse).   

My friend’s 12 year old was Frida tonight! Maybe she’s finding some newfound popularity with the kids, I don’t know, but I cracked up when we watched the ep tonight and saw Mark’s costume.

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Regarding the clowns thing, our school had a social media threat at Halloween a few years ago, right around the time there were news reports of someone dressed as a clown threatening kids.  So yeah, no more clowns.  Just a sad fact of life that I totally understand and approve.  I appreciate that the show can address this real world madness without overreacting one way or the other. There really are shades of gray out here in the real world.

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45 minutes ago, clarkbar said:

There really are shades of gray out here in the real world.

No 50 Shades Of Grey costumes.

Too sexual.

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This, in in my opinion, is the first decent episode of the show. I thought the satire of just about any costume being seen as "offensive" was just great. Also, bald Becky seems to be burned in my mind now. I'm not sure what they were thinking there.

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22 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think it would be difficult to work at a restaurant that insults people. Since you can insult only certain things and can't be soul crushing. Which is what Darlene is better at. Although calling it McNastys doesn't sound appealing to eat at. I'm assuming it was like Ed Debevic's which was the one that used to be in Chicago. 

For decades in London there was a Chinese restaurant that everyone recognized as "that place where they're always so rude to you all the time". Literally, they'd shout at you when you came in, "Sit there! What you want?" "A *menu*?" (which they would then disdainfully toss at you). But the food was good and reasonably priced (especially for the West End), and the service was very quick, so if you were trying to make a show you could do so reliably, so it was quite popular. They were cash only, too, as I recall. Sometimes I found it a relief to go somewhere that because *they* were rude I didn't have to be polite either, a kind of vacation from social graces. A few years ago it got sold, and reports are that they got all polite, and now no one I know goes there any more. :)

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23 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It was the the costumes I was here for the Conner Halloween episodes more than the plot and they didn't disappoint. Sharknade O'Connor, Scary j Blige and Napoleon fall apart. 

With the plot it is mondern, now they have so many rules for everything at schools that they didn't have before. 

I think it would be difficult to work at a restaurant that insults people. Since you can insult only certain things and can't be soul crushing. Which is what Darlene is better at. Although calling it McNastys doesn't sound appealing to eat at. I'm assuming it was like Ed Debevic's which was the one that used to be in Chicago. 

I thought the idea of the "restaurant that insults people" was a sly reference to Roseanne's start as a comic. She was a waitress and her smart mouth got to be a thing, so people started coming back just to hear her schnick /jokes.  Then she started to comedy clubs.  Darklene is becoming a smarter, cooler,  PC-type Roseanne--and I mean that in a good way. Roseanne struck a nerve about housewives, working poor, and real people back in the day. 

Then, she went Hollywood crazy and stayed that way.  Egos are powerful and can become evil when coupled with lots of money.

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4 hours ago, wendyg said:

For decades in London there was a Chinese restaurant that everyone recognized as "that place where they're always so rude to you all the time". Literally, they'd shout at you when you came in, "Sit there! What you want?" "A *menu*?" (which they would then disdainfully toss at you). But the food was good and reasonably priced (especially for the West End), and the service was very quick, so if you were trying to make a show you could do so reliably, so it was quite popular. They were cash only, too, as I recall. Sometimes I found it a relief to go somewhere that because *they* were rude I didn't have to be polite either, a kind of vacation from social graces. A few years ago it got sold, and reports are that they got all polite, and now no one I know goes there any more. :)

Don't forget the famous 'soup nazi' episode of Seinfeld.

I thought bald Becky was strangely attractive. Should I be worried..?

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20 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

My daughter used to be terrified of clowns as a child, now she just hates them.  I don't find someone's else's fear of something hilarious (well mostly) but in this case I do find it inexplicable.  People have tried to explain what it is about clowns they find scary and I do get what they're saying but still...to me I see a clown I see happiness.  Other people see a clown and they see death with a red nose!

For me, it's the face makeup.  They're supposed to be cheery, but it doesn't feel cheery to me--it feels false.

I never expected other people to have the same fear, but after the televised film IT, that pretty much guaranteed the others in my social group were also terrified.  To this day, I dislike costumes where I can't really see the person's real face underneath.  Though I can make allowances for kid's costumes. 
 

So yeah, I'm fun at parties.

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16 hours ago, CouchTater said:

I just watched, and it seemed to me that he was looking at Becky at times, as if including her in the conversation.  She was seated at the table while the rest stood, and he kept looking in her general direction, much like you'd do in a real-life conversation.  I didn't read it as cue-card dependence.

I took the scene to be Broderick trying to be off-putting.  As Jackie points out, the single guy in his 40s with a job is a white whale.  So for him not to be snapped up in Langford, there must be something wrong with him.  Maybe he had social anxiety or he just didn't know how to talk to people individually or in small groups.  In which case, Broderick did a fantastic job at being weird and creepy, while not being obviously to Jackie.

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A perfectly satisfactory Halloween episode in keeping with the series' long tradition. Their best, no, but it was solid.

I think they threaded the needle about as best as they could with the cultural appropriation mess. They saw both sides in 20+ minutes and I didn't think it was frankly any more or less incisive than the original series' approach to similar hot button topics, at least as per kids/schools - what are you gonna say in less than a half hour that is going to be entirely right or wrong? The show has always erred on the side of being liberally minded yet not precious, at least before Seasons 8 or 9. I think Darlene's reactions were also in keeping with both her more enlightened take and her parents' beliefs. It sure wasn't Roseanne out there giving a red meat speech for the Breitbart crowd, so that counts for a fucking lot.

Everything with Jackie, Dan, etc. was hilarious. But the Harris stuff really cracked me up. "How will I get there, you ask?" "I really don't care."

Edited by jsbt
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On 10/30/2018 at 8:41 PM, geauxaway said:

I get where they were trying to go with that story line, but I have a hard time believing any kid would choose Freida Khalo as their Halloween costume.  I get it that Mark is supposed to be unique but this is the 2nd story in the series now that revolves around him and his creativity being stifled (the other being the birdhouse).   

I didn't understand the point of this plot. I expected the school to stop Mark because of a gender issue with the costume, which would have been stupid and the Darlene and whomever else could have rightly made that point. But it was due to the character being Hispanic, which was somehow not stupid and so Darlene made some comments and left? Is the lesson that we are now only allowed to dress like people who are like us, or like how others perceive us? It felt like the show backed down in the middle of making some kind of point.

At first I thought Jackie's date was someone was dressed as Mathew Broderick as a costume - and then realized it was Mathew Broderick. It's strange to see him at his current age. I still picture Ferris.

Dan needs someone to talk to. He is surrounded by people whose only purpose is to try his patience.

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On 10/31/2018 at 3:50 AM, Mu Shu said:

They’re pushing it too hard with that kid.  It doesn’t feel natural, and he doesn’t fit in with the Conners.  Not because of orientation.  He doesn’t look like his parents, nor does he have any mannerisms that suggest he is theirs.  Harris is a brat, but she looks and acts like she belongs to Darleen and David.

mark is miscast.  I turn the channel when he comes on.  As I do with Mary, Geena, DJ.

 

 

Wow, I think Mark is excellent casting and I adore whenever he is on screen. He has reddish hair like his dad and sister, and greenish eyes like his mom and uncle who he is named after.   He’s smart like his mom, artistic and sweet like his dad, yet also his own person.  But I also adore D.J., Geena, and Mary- I just love the whole gang.   

Edited by BeachDays
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2 hours ago, kirkola said:

For me, it's the face makeup.  They're supposed to be cheery, but it doesn't feel cheery to me--it feels false.

I never expected other people to have the same fear, but after the televised film IT, that pretty much guaranteed the others in my social group were also terrified.  To this day, I dislike costumes where I can't really see the person's real face underneath.  Though I can make allowances for kid's costumes. 
 

So yeah, I'm fun at parties.

that's interesting, as I've never heard of anyone scared of mimes, yet they do the face makeup too (and often wear all black).  I think it's gotta be the entire getup maybe? Then again mimes don't typically approach kids, while that's precisely what clowns do. 

We're all gonna get yelled at for being off topic ;)

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7 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

that's interesting, as I've never heard of anyone scared of mimes, yet they do the face makeup too (and often wear all black).  I think it's gotta be the entire getup maybe? Then again mimes don't typically approach kids, while that's precisely what clowns do. 

We're all gonna get yelled at for being off topic ;)

 Both mines and ventriloquists creep me out! 

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19 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

 Both mines and ventriloquists creep me out! 

I assume you mean "mimes", not "mines".

The Guardian just ran a piece listing 20 of the world's creepiest museums. I assume you'd want to avoid the Vent Haven Musejm of Ventriloquism in Fort Mitchell, KY (and maybe also the gigantic collection of shrunken heads in Oxford): https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/oct/31/20-of-the-worlds-creepiest-museums

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Darlene's response to the principal could have been better I thought. What if she had said "fine he's not dressed as Freida Kahlo but as the president of the Freida Kahlo fan club" or "he's dressed as alternate universe white Freida Kahlo" or "as Scarlet Johansson playing Freida Kahlo". That could have been funny.

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Things are getting a little off-topic, even for a Halloween episode. The clowns, mimes and other disturbing things discussion can always be taken to Small Talk.

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12 hours ago, Tosia said:

Then, she went Hollywood crazy and stayed that way.  Egos are powerful and can become evil when coupled with lots of money.

Roseanne Barr is actually mentally ill she has been diagnosed so she's not just "Hollywood Crazy". Sorry but it something that always seems to get skipped over and it's not really something to be flip about. 

I feel like the show is pulling it punches a little. It's understandable all things considered. Original recipe Roseanne would have made the principal back down though. It's not a this show is too PC thing either. It just felt a little anti-climatic. I also feel like Darlene could have come at him the other way. She could have suggested the school was being trans phobic by not allowing Mark to wear the costume. If you take politically correct to far it becomes censorship and ends up being another stick to beat people with. I just hope the show doesn't stay cautious the original never was.

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I thought this was a decent episode.  There were a few laughs and they tried to address a timely issue.  The only subplot that bored me was Darlene's daughter wanting to drive the car.

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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It made me think of the "I am not a costume" ads that turned into a meme.

I thought that Becky was supposed to be Jason Stratham in the Meg, but yeah.

I was relieved that Darlene still has her waitress job, but I'm also guessing that she's not getting the hours she thought she would get. (Which makes sense- I can see her not being used as much because the girl is not built to be a flirty cocktail waitress.)

Edited by methodwriter85
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On 11/1/2018 at 4:26 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Darlene's response to the principal could have been better I thought. What if she had said "fine he's not dressed as Freida Kahlo but as the president of the Freida Kahlo fan club" or "he's dressed as alternate universe white Freida Kahlo" or "as Scarlet Johansson playing Freida Kahlo". That could have been funny.

It’s a funny little coincidence that you mention Scarlett Johansson as she has had her own issues with cultural appropriation in film.

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On 10/31/2018 at 8:42 AM, Pete Martell said:

a lot of the people who would have loved the "PC gone wild" plot with Darlene and Mark probably stopped watching the show

I loved it , for the simple fact that it was done with logic and reason. Darlene's line to the principal that "it's not cultural appropriation, it's cultural appreciation." was perfect. Rational thinking human beings don't generally make choices about things they want to do for themselves based on things they hate; this is especially true when picking costumes and exceptionally true in the case of children picking costumes. I don't understand how anyone, in good conscience, can just automatically claim that something is coming from a place of disrespect and is therefore inherently offensive. That's just ludicrous! I believe people have an obligation and a responsibility to be respectful when it comes to other cultures but all cultures need to be accountable and also have an obligation and responsibility to recognize the difference between when something is rooted in hate or rooted in love. The ability to be offended isn't a right, it's a privilege, and people need to use it wisely.  

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On 10/31/2018 at 2:18 PM, Luciano said:

Favorite moment of the episode was Dan telling the neighbors that he and Roseanne had discussed not vandalizing their house the previous year but decided to go ahead and do it so the neighbors wouldn't feel discriminated against since they did it to every other house.

I think that was probably my favorite piece of humor from the episode! That was an incredibly smart joke dealing with race relations and discrimination, bravo to whoever wrote that. Like many, I loved seeing the neighbors again too. For all the crap Roseanne Barr gets, whether deserved or not, that scene from last years revival was one of the best things about it; The sisters and the neighbors both admitting they were scared of each other, or at least to get to know each other, because of all the propaganda in the news was poignantly sad and incredibly touching; really well done all the way around.

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On 11/1/2018 at 9:28 AM, Colorado David said:

I thought bald Becky was strangely attractive. Should I be worried..?

 

On 11/1/2018 at 10:20 AM, Mocha Decaf said:

Bald Becky was HOT.

LOL! I've always been ambivalent to Becky/Lecy as far as being attractive goes, but yeah, oddly enough, I sat up and said "whoa!' So, none us need feel alone in our shame, hahaha.

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It would have not only added a little more depth to the argument, but also been legitimately funny, to have, say, an obviously non-white kid dressed in some dollar store Groucho Marx glasses walk by in the background.

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On 31/10/2018 at 11:49 AM, howiveaddict said:

My husband noted he was reading cue cards.  And hubby isn’t that observant.  

 

On 31/10/2018 at 3:07 PM, Pallas said:

Heh. There were a lot of very specific academic references that Broderick had to nail. It's text that may not seem that much harder to memorize than other lines -- until you have to do it, and prove it, on command. Sometimes the unfamiliar words aren't going to stick. They don't embed in memory because they're sterile, clean of context and emotion: not stirring, not poignant, not funny. And emotion is an actor's breath. 

If he was reading from cue cards, it’s a pity they didn’t include the proper pronunciation of Samhain. 

It’s not ‘sew-enn’, it’s SOW (rhymes with cow) ANN.  (Although at least it wasn’t ‘Sam-hayn’ like on Supernatural. 

 

Perhaps Mark should have worn a frame around him and said he was going as Frida’s self portrait. 

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On 11/1/2018 at 9:42 AM, Tosia said:

I thought the idea of the "restaurant that insults people" was a sly reference to Roseanne's start as a comic. She was a waitress and her smart mouth got to be a thing, so people started coming back just to hear her schnick /jokes.  Then she started to comedy clubs.  Darklene is becoming a smarter, cooler,  PC-type Roseanne--and I mean that in a good way. Roseanne struck a nerve about housewives, working poor, and real people back in the day. 

I’m pretty sure they were referencing a chain like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick's_Last_Resort

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On 11/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, tessaray said:

Things are getting a little off-topic, even for a Halloween episode. The clowns, mimes and other disturbing things discussion can always be taken to Small Talk.

In def to TPTB...so what storyline would you like to see for Geena and DJ? I could use a break from the Darlene drama.

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On 11/2/2018 at 2:14 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It made me think of the "I am not a costume" ads that turned into a meme.

I thought that Becky was supposed to be Jason Stratham in the Meg, but yeah.

I was relieved that Darlene still has her waitress job, but I'm also guessing that she's not getting the hours she thought she would get. (Which makes sense- I can see her not being used as much because the girl is not built to be a flirty cocktail waitress.)

I find this storyline the least believable.  Darlene is over 40 and not traditionally attractive for a cocktail waitress.  The competition in a tight job market would do her in.   Becky looks younger, and is a more traditionally attractive type.  They need to switch jobs. 

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5 minutes ago, JacquelineAppleton said:

"Becky looks younger" - Isn't Lecy older than Sara? Ouch...

By less than a year.  I think by the time people get into their 40s a 6-7 month age difference makes no difference (we're not talking toddlers here!).  You look the way you look based more on your genes and your lifestyle -- and of course since this is Hollywood -- by how much 'work' you might be prepared to have done to stay looking even younger.  

Edited by CherryAmes
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1 minute ago, CherryAmes said:

By a year.  I think by the time people get into their 40s a year difference makes no difference.  You look the way you look based more on your genes and your lifestyle -- and of course since this is Hollywood -- by how much 'work' you might be prepared to have done to stay looking even younger.  

take Lecy in this "Nearly Identical Beckys" spoof they did - she looks youthful for her age for what must have been her early twenties. She still looks OK in her mid-forties but Father Time *has* taken its toll on her by now,

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1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

I find this storyline the least believable.  Darlene is over 40 and not traditionally attractive for a cocktail waitress.  The competition in a tight job market would do her in.   Becky looks younger, and is a more traditionally attractive type.  They need to switch jobs. 

 

Well remember Crystal had the job first. I think as long as you are friendly (haha) and do the job it’s fine.   Darlene may not be as traditionally attractive but she is attractive enough and seems very fit.  

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1 minute ago, BeachDays said:

Well remember Crystal had the job first.

Jobs on sitcoms rarely make much sense!  Roseanne/The Conners is no different here than a host of other shows.  I don't know how much of that is the writers not caring what happens in 'real' life and how much of it is writers just wanting to set up potential comic scenarios -- probably a little bit of both -- but  anyway finances and jobs have always been the two things on sitcoms that can drive me nuts if I let it - it's what brought me to TWOP and then here, so I could vent with like minded people :).

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2 hours ago, Colorado David said:

In def to TPTB...so what storyline would you like to see for Geena and DJ? I could use a break from the Darlene drama.

Not sure that's a discussion for this episode thread but the original 2nd episode (Separation of Church and Dan) looks to be more Geena-centric, so maybe that will tell us more. (Airs the 13th, I think.) 

While I wasn't crazy about Becky taking candy from a little kid, I did like Geena being mischievous by demanding her half. It's nice to see she has a good relationship with both of DJ's sisters.  

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20 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

 

Well remember Crystal had the job first. I think as long as you are friendly (haha) and do the job it’s fine.   Darlene may not be as traditionally attractive but she is attractive enough and seems very fit.  

Plus, Lanford isn't exactly Hollywood. Attractiveness is subjective and usually judged by the standards of the community.

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Schools where I live have not had Halloween parties at school for many years.   

I still feel bad for Becky her life is a mess and her drinking isn’t that fun JMHO.  

Does anyone think Darlene is a totally different character then the original Roseanne?

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On 10/31/2018 at 3:50 PM, WednesdayAddams said:

I thought this episode was pretty funny. Loved Dan commenting that Halloween is 24 hours without laws and rules.

Mathew Brodderick was in Modern Family not that long ago, and was hilarious. It must have been all that lingo that he just couldn't remember and clearly looked at the cards for. Wish they did something different for him, so it could have been funnier. 

For some reason I kept thinking Jackie boyfriend personality was going to be joke.  When he kept going on about trivia facts no one cares about.   Original Roseanne Halloween episodes use to have pranks.   I was way off on that one LOL.  

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58 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Schools where I live have not had Halloween parties at school for many years.   

I still feel bad for Becky her life is a mess and her drinking isn’t that fun JMHO.  

Does anyone think Darlene is a totally different character then the original Roseanne?

Well she was a child when Roseanne started. We watched her grow up, go through changes and mature. By the time the show ended, Darlene was a very different person than the kid we first got to know. I don't think she's much different now, she's just older and more experienced.

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Plus, Lanford isn't exactly Hollywood. Attractiveness is subjective and usually judged by the standards of the community.

 

It’s  a moot point, because apparently Chrystal did it into her sixties.  I doubt a casino in the Midwest, whose largest customer base is probably 55 plus had a sexy costume requirement.  It’s not Vegas, either.

a better use of the story would be to have Becky employed there trying to keep up with the young ‘uns.

Edited by Mu Shu
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1 hour ago, tribeca said:

Schools where I live have not had Halloween parties at school for many years.   

I still feel bad for Becky her life is a mess and her drinking isn’t that fun JMHO.  

Does anyone think Darlene is a totally different character then the original Roseanne?

 

She is different but I don’t think totally different-  she always had a soft streak underneath first the tomboy smart mouth and we got glimpses even occasionally when she was in her “mean” phase (which makes me think, not to excuse it, insecurity and immaturity) -  now she is a mom, more mature and free with her emotions, more kind and thoughtful-  I think she matured in the best possible way, but I still see Darlene.   

The ironic thing is she is now the person who would probably be amazing with David versus the previous sometimes almost abusive incarnation. 

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26 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I doubt a casino in the Midwest, whose largest customer base is probably 55 plus had a sexy costume requirement.  It’s not Vegas, either.

This reminds me of the casino near us - if you go by the commercials it's full of beautiful young people dressed up to the nines.  But when you go there it turns out it's mostly elderly people (lots of canes and walkers) and while, sure, there are young people there, they sure ain't wearing fancy duds - jeans and a clean shirt would be dressy to be honest :).  What casinos want to be and what they actually are totally depends on your location.  I suspect my casino is way more Lanford then not.  Darlene would fit right in.

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4 hours ago, tribeca said:

Does anyone think Darlene is a totally different character then the original Roseanne?

I think Darlene is a different character because she has 2 children. And she has a different viewpoint now. She is a more mature Darlene. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 7:01 PM, chocolatine said:

I loved Shark-nead O'Connor, Napoleon Blown-apart, and "I sometimes order Descartes, but of course it's more expensive". 

I loved "Sharkado Connor" (I got the the Sinead part watching, but the "Sharkado" part just as I was typing this.)

 

On 11/1/2018 at 6:42 AM, Tosia said:

I thought the idea of the "restaurant that insults people" was a sly reference to Roseanne's start as a comic.

There's at least one chain wear people come to have their ties cut off and be insulted.  That's what they were going for here.

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Gunther Toody's, a 50s themed diner restaurant (in Denver, not sure where else), their waitresses typically would give ya a hard time - not outright insults, just "giving ya the business" 50s style.

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