S03.E06: Kamsahamnida

[topanga]

5 hours ago, izabella said:

I expected more from Randall.  He has had nervous breakdowns.  Beth is not at that level, but she is telling him she isn't ok.  But I guess he makes himself feel better by diving into new projects, so he thinks that will do for Beth, too.  Maybe she should do something for herself first, not involving any Pearsons, like a vacation at the beach, or a spa retreat, where she can take a deep breath and refresh.

That’s the thing. She talked about getting a job, but it was obvious—at least to me—was that Beth’s ‘I’m not ok’ was about more than not working. I’m very surprised Randall didn’t have more insight into his wife’s mood. Of course, Beth could’ve been more forthcoming about her feelings, but maybe she didn’t know how to express it. 

[Arcadiasw]

5 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

If you were married to Randall, wouldn't you be running back to work to dodge his next great idea? 

But seriously : we've seen Beth's love for her work since the beginning and it has never been about money. It was a job in her chosen field that she'd been in for 12 years. She was able to work part time when that made the most sense for her family and then switch to full-time. For a confident person to cry in a job interview, we saw how much the loss affected her. I wish Randall would have talked to her more about how she was feeling and what her options are. 

Ha! Good point! Randall and I would be in counseling!

Beth being at her job for 12 years is why I felt Beth should've taken a break instead of jumping back in the job search. Not everyone can do that but she's in a situation where she's financially able to take a break and deal with her loss before getting back in the game again. 

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

That’s the thing. She talked about getting a job, but it was obvious—at least to me—was that Beth’s ‘I’m not ok’ was about more than not working. I’m very surprised Randall didn’t have more insight into his wife’s mood. Of course, Beth could’ve been more forthcoming about her feelings, but maybe she didn’t know how to express it. 

Randall seems to get laser-focused on one thing whether it's putting up a ceiling fan, re-enacting Pilgrim Rick to the t, connecting with a foster child, buying and fixing up a building, whatever it is, he's on it to the exclusion of what's happening under his nose.  I don't know how much he responds to wake-up calls, but he needs one.

[Haleth]

Randall couldn't read Beth.

Kate didn't realize Toby was off his meds until he told her.

Kevin didn't understand that Zoe wanted some alone time.

Boy, these Pearsons are mighty self absorbed, aren't they?  None of them caught the mood of their SO.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Arcadiasw said:

Ha! Good point! Randall and I would be in counseling!

Beth being at her job for 12 years is why I felt Beth should've taken a break instead of jumping back in the job search. Not everyone can do that but she's in a situation where she's financially able to take a break and deal with her loss before getting back in the game again. 

Beth worked at her former employer for 12 years, even though she probably made nowhere near what Randall earned; she undoubtedly received severance pay and would be eligible for unemployment.  Randall said they were in grad school at the same time; so she's got an advanced degree.  There is no reason why she shouldn't be taking a step back, taking a deep breath and taking her time.  Even if they didn't apparently have a solid financial base, she doesn't need to get a job to make ends meet.  She has the luxury of finding just the right situation for her.

[Dminches]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:16 PM, meggonzo said:

Why is this election storyline happening?!

Because you can only kill William so many times.

[Dminches]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:59 PM, Armchair Critic said:

 

Who is going to pay the bills when Randall and Beth are both not working? That city council job is not going to pay much even if he does win. Also why would you tip your opponent off about how you are going to win?

 

Silly you.  There are no bills on TV!

[Dminches]

When 10 year-old Toby was clothes shopping with his mom it seemed as though the Dad had already left since Toby's mom references it when he was in bed depressed over his failed marriage.  Later in the episode there was an older Toby (different actor) watching his Dad pack his bags.  Did his Dad leave twice or was that an inconsistency?

[hookedontv]

I know I’m supposed to suspend a certain amount of reality when watching any TV show but...

Kate & Toby & Audio. Eating a rock that size is an absolutely serious situation. The vet prob wouldn’t let Audio go home, but hospitalized him if Kate didn’t want to do surgery so they could periodically X-ray him to see if the rock was moving safely through. And just because Audio popped doesn’t mean the rock came out (take a stick and poke that poop!) and check Audio’s rear for any tearing on the way out. 

But then if Audio was hospitalized,  Toby wouldn’t have gone out, and Kate wouldn’t have declared she’s strong as hell. Did I hear that correctly? Kate thinks she’s strong as hell? I laughed. 

I agree that the look on Rebecca’s face when Jack mentioned Nicky was everything. She didn’t push or ask, she just didn’t want to break the moment as Jack let her peek in ever do slightly into that time in his life. I rewound it and watched it again. 

I find it odd that Randall isn’t curious about his dad’s time in Vietnam. Jack said he didn’t want to talk about it but now that he’s gone, I would think Randall would like to learn more about it. I don’t think that’s some Pearson love child in Vietnam, that woman could have been anyone-Nicky’s gf, a kind woman in the village who made them dinner. She was someone important but I don’t think she was a love interest. And I think Jack didint like to talk about Vietnam because of the horrors of war and Nicky dying. You know Jack’s dad never let him forget that he was supposed to look out for Nicky. 

Finally-tonight was the first time, to be honest, that I really liked Deja when she was talking to Beth. She did a great job and that conversation was an exceptional piece of writing ;-)

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Beth worked at her former employer for 12 years, even though she probably made nowhere near what Randall earned; she undoubtedly received severance pay and would be eligible for unemployment.  Randall said they were in grad school at the same time; so she's got an advanced degree.  There is no reason why she shouldn't be taking a step back, taking a deep breath and taking her time.  Even if they didn't apparently have a solid financial base, she doesn't need to get a job to make ends meet.  She has the luxury of finding just the right situation for her.

It might not be about the money. Beth may be a person who just likes working and who finds comfort in working. My mom's like that. She can't go very long without doing something. I joke that my parents will never ever truly retire because they would get bored by the second day, so maybe Beth's like that as well. After all, she took some time after Tess and Annie were born to care for them, but as it seems, she didn't just stop working. She just started working from home and took on less hours for years. 

That's probably why it makes sense for Beth to be jumping in on finding another job right away. She WANTS to be working and doing something and maybe she likes to make a little money on top of that. She should take some time, for sure, but I totally see why she doesn't want to. Losing her job has affected her and not even Randall gets it. He got to quit his job and make his own choices. Beth got fired and now is struggling. 

[doodlebug]

22 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It might not be about the money. Beth may be a person who just likes working and who finds comfort in working. My mom's like that. She can't go very long without doing something. I joke that my parents will never ever truly retire because they would get bored by the second day, so maybe Beth's like that as well. After all, she took some time after Tess and Annie were born to care for them, but as it seems, she didn't just stop working. She just started working from home and took on less hours for years. 

That's probably why it makes sense for Beth to be jumping in on finding another job right away. She WANTS to be working and doing something and maybe she likes to make a little money on top of that. She should take some time, for sure, but I totally see why she doesn't want to. Losing her job has affected her and not even Randall gets it. He got to quit his job and make his own choices. Beth got fired and now is struggling. 

I get that, I am the same way.  Even so, it looks like jobs in her field are not so plentiful that she can just pick up and get another one.  It would make far more sense for her to volunteer with the kids' scout troop or at their school or a food pantry while sending out resumes and looking for a new gig.  It appears it is going to take some time, and, that being the case, it is up to her to figure out what to do in the interim.  I'd feel a lot better about her working with Randall's campaign if it had been her idea.  She needs to be busy, it appears she knows it; so she needs to find ways to be engaged and occupied until she gets her next job and I wish the show had shown us her realization that the ball was in her court and, if she wasn't going to be able to resume her career immediately, then she should look at it as an opportunity to explore other areas.

[ShadowFacts]

55 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

Finally-tonight was the first time, to be honest, that I really liked Deja when she was talking to Beth. She did a great job and that conversation was an exceptional piece of writing ;-)

I've always liked Deja, but I thought the acting here was really above average, she is impressive.   

28 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's probably why it makes sense for Beth to be jumping in on finding another job right away. She WANTS to be working and doing something and maybe she likes to make a little money on top of that. She should take some time, for sure, but I totally see why she doesn't want to. Losing her job has affected her and not even Randall gets it. He got to quit his job and make his own choices. Beth got fired and now is struggling. 

Whatever money she was bringing in she may view as pretty important to the family finances as well.  She may also be following the advice not to have too much of a time gap in employment.  I don't know if that's valid anymore, these things change all the time. 

[topanga]

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I've always liked Deja, but I thought the acting here was really above average, she is impressive.   

I agree. Her Pearson speech didn’t sound quite so speech-y. 

[ChromaKelly]

11 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

Couldn't find a clip. Here's the transcript for the episode. http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=718&t=29174 Copy and pasted: "Yeah. Public schools in this area are good, it's why we moved here. Even better than private."

Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=718&t=29174

Thank you! I don't know why I thought the girls were in private school. OK, it makes their financial situation a little better to not have that expense.

[qtpye]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:04 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I liked the episode.  Jae-won being introduced really made me happy.  He's really cute.

Kid Sterling's face is so beautiful.  It's like a painting.

Adult Kevin is so different from teenager Kevin.  I'm sure there's people can relate to this, but for me it's super-jarring and I don't really get the transformation.  What made Kevin so charming, loveable, and charismatic all of a sudden?  FAME?!

Beth yelling at the teenagers was HILARIOUS.  Even though I would have obviously hated it if I had to experience it in person!  Maybe I laughed so much  because that's how my parents talk to me.  LOL

Milo was really f'n hot this episode.  

 

23 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

This is a REALLY good point.  Seeing what we know of Kevin as a teen, I would think fame and celebrity would have only made things worse!  But we're expected to root for all of the Big Three, so we have to make him lovable and sympathetic.

 

23 hours ago, Katy M said:

Income doesn't have to be earned income.  They were raking in the money for 10 years or so.  If they invested wisely, they could still be making a pretty good income off of their investments. Plus, they own a building, so in theory they could make money from that, assuming Randall didn't decide to run it at a loss.

 

23 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, season 1 Kevin was charming and charismatic to people who didn't know him, but he was a straight up ass to the people who knew him personally. I think acting after Jack's death did teach him how to fake it in front of people. But we've been watching Kevin work on himself for a couple of seasons and this Kevin IS different from season 1 Kevin and even parts of season 2 Kevin.

Kid Kevin was a whiny brat. Teen Kevin was an angrier version of that. Adult Kevin has been working through those issues for a long time. I get the transformation completely, since it's been a work in progress and he's still not quite there yet. See: him going to see Zoe in the hotel when she asked him for one night without him. 

 

23 hours ago, DFWGina said:

I second giving everyone on the show, other than Rebecca and Manuel a good forensic accounting investigation....

Toby and Kate live in a tiny apartment and rarely work (Kate) or show up to work (Toby).  Beth and Randall live in a nice house and drive nice cars which seems to fit with a 2 professional income household but then we have Randall burning through money (buying a building, running a campaign, etc) and Beth unemployed as of late plus they took in an additional daughter who is older than their existing two so can't wear hand me downs.  And she didn't come with clothes to hand down to the existing 2 daughters.  Kevin gets a pass since he is likely living off syndication money for the Manny and was recently starring(?) in a movie by Ron Howard and he isn't paying an assistant right now (that we know of).

I really wish Randall would have just hugged Beth and supported her vs ensnaring her into his folly (campaign).  I *hate* this campaign story line.  

 

21 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

If the dog story proved anything, it's that Kate shouldn't have kids. She's too self absorbed. Shocked, I know.

Also hate that Beth can't do her own thing.

I have a feeling this show will have people move to be closer. Rebecca was hinting at it with Kate not being close. So let's say Randall wins the election, moves to Philly which in Pearson land is 30 minutes away from Pittsburgh. Kate moves back to Pittsburgh to have Rebecca raise their child, because Kate sure can't do it. And Kevin will be in NYC which is 35 minutes away from Pittsburgh in their land.

The Big 3 Construction note thing that Jack was scribbling on. That survived the fire, correct? I believe it was with his belongings beside Rebecca when she drove past the burned home. They made it a point to show it. But it hasn't been brought up since. Maybe we'll see her look through it in the past, reminding current Rebecca to tell her kids about it.

 

20 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

I keep seeing this, but I thought it was already established in a previous episode (the one with the Snow White play "The Pool" I think, don't have time to look it up) that the girls go to public school. He made a point to William or someone about how the public schools in the area were better than the private ones and gave his girls a more-rounded experience or something along those lines.

 

18 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Kate would have redeemed herself, if even just a wee bit since I don't like anything about her, if, when Audio pooped, she handed Toby a plastic baggie and told him to check for the rock before he bagged the poop. THAT scene I would have enjoyed.

I got a kick out of Randall, not being paid, asking his wife to "work" for him so she can't be paid either. Yeah, that will make her feel whole and self-fulfilled. She could go be a hospital volunteer if she wanted to do something good and not be paid. Or volunteer at a day care so she could be with her kids, who are now going to have no parent around. Although it could be a cool story line if Deja is made caretaker for the two other girls and they start a neighborhood gang or something.

 

5 hours ago, topanga said:

That’s the thing. She talked about getting a job, but it was obvious—at least to me—was that Beth’s ‘I’m not ok’ was about more than not working. I’m very surprised Randall didn’t have more insight into his wife’s mood. Of course, Beth could’ve been more forthcoming about her feelings, but maybe she didn’t know how to express it. 

I think what the job represents to Beth is that is something about herself. Everything else is about her family and the job is what she identifies with as being "about her". Working for Randall is not going to solve her problem.

 

2 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Thank you! I don't know why I thought the girls were in private school. OK, it makes their financial situation a little better to not have that expense.

In New Jersey, the property taxes for a good school district can cost a fortune. I know people in Princeton who pay close to 100K in property taxes, each year.

They did such a good job in casting young Kate and Randall. It is like they just went with "generic good-looking blonde kid" for Kevin. Teenage Kevin creeps me out where I almost can't help but loving adult Kevin, even when he is a jerk.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It is like they just went with "generic good-looking blonde kid" for Kevin. Teenage Kevin creeps me out where I almost can't help but loving adult Kevin, even when he is a jerk.

I actually think they did an excellent casting job with the younger versions of Kevin. Parker Bates (kid Kevin) looks like Logan Shroyer (Teen Kevin) who looks like Justin Hartley for me:

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think what the job represents to Beth is that is something about herself. Everything else is about her family and the job is what she identifies with as being "about her". Working for Randall is not going to solve her problem.

Agreed. I hope that Beth doesn't end up thanking Randall after the election is over. I do hope that there is some tension because Beth is still doing something that Randall wants, rather than what she wants. He's extremely narcissistic. 

[SueB]

I really liked this week's ep.

Randall & Kevin were GOLD.  And I so love that The Manny is loved in South Korea and that he has a K-pop song.  My daughter (who is 27...) introduced me to the phenomenon that is K-pop.  I NEED to hear that song.  And Kevin wins the brotherly award today for putting on that too-tight T-shirt and helping his brother.  Not that I mind that T-shirt wearing cause - DAMN, those show muscles look good being shown off. 

I really want to hear more about Jack's time in Vietnam - I'm glad the show went in this direction. The more we get of his backstory, the more I love him.  

Randall and Beth ARE a dynamic duo.  It's not a pity job at all IMO.  Those two are still so fantastic together.  I liked how Jae-Won (?) first called Randall out and then Randall Randalled him.  Speaking of which - Deja! Deja WINS with her line about learning to speechify in that house.  Tess WAS being bratty so I'm glad she owned that.

Kate & Toby - I'm so proud of them.  It's so easy to fall into thinking all the good things you have are something you don't deserve.  And I totally believe Kate will pull Toby up.  I'm still terrified of what that future-Toby thing is all about. I'm already over-invested in the maybe-baby. This is not a good decision on my part. 

Kate & Rebecca - YES.  At last.  THIS is the mother/daughter relationship I hope they continue to build.  I loved every moment of their conversation.  It felt like healing.

Zoe - Beth thought Kevin was in over his head.  I think Zoe is the one getting in over her head.  Kevin is just so REAL in that scene with her - he KNOWS he's not supposed to be there but he wants her to help him pull off the wallpaper and he just has to ask.  I'm sincerely hoping he got his "yes", then ordered something wonderful for her from Room Service and promptly left her to finish her decompression.  But he's still Kevin, and still a little needy.  

[qtpye]

14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I actually think they did an excellent casting job with the younger versions of Kevin. Parker Bates (kid Kevin) looks like Logan Shroyer (Teen Kevin) who looks like Justin Hartley for me:

Agreed. I hope that Beth doesn't end up thanking Randall after the election is over. I do hope that there is some tension because Beth is still doing something that Randall wants, rather than what she wants. He's extremely narcissistic. 

I think for me, it just that he does have teen Justin does not have adult Justin's mannerisms down in any way, where you really see it with the other two. However, it is just my opinion and ymmv.

On 10/25/2018 at 12:14 PM, Trillium said:

This happened to my neighbor. She had worked at her job 18 years and the organization she was working for was doing massive layoffs. She was #2 in her department which was HR. Since her boss wasn’t going to lay herself off, my neighbor got the boot. Absolutely nothing wrong with her performance or anything. But they would have had to lay off 2-3 people to get the cost savings just letting her go. 

 

She went through a very hard time after that, and it took her a while to find another job because her self confidence was definitely shaken. Beth’s reaction is very realistic to me. I think people are so intent on solving the “her” mystery that anything is a sign.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 2:57 PM, Maximona said:

Well, you know, the other reason that people don't find jobs after they've been laid off from the one where they've been for many years is because they've reached the top of their salary bracket.  And the interviewing company is not in a position to match the salary that that person was making.

There is nothing more heartbreaking than losing a job that you are so invested in and then being thrown back into a workforce when you are nearly middle-aged that you do not even recognize anymore. My friend lost her job of 17 years due to budget cuts even though her performance was excellent. She actually had never applied online to anything since she was hired right out of grad school. She is shocked at the state of the workforce. A million online applications for one job, so employers are not weeding out candidates but computers that follow weird algorithms. Employers forcing what should be permanent salaried workers into doing contract hourly workers, so they do not have to pay benefits. People balking at her old salary, even though it was perfectly reasonable for someone with her training and experience. She has actually had people be suspicious of why she staid with a company for so long "since most people should go on to something better in 3-5 years". She feels like she has to start over with competing with people who are at least a decade younger and willing to take much less. It made her feel like all her hard work was for nothing. I bet Beth feels the same type of hurt and rejection.

Edited November 1, 2018 by qtpye

[Trillian]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It might not be about the money. Beth may be a person who just likes working and who finds comfort in working. My mom's like that. She can't go very long without doing something. I joke that my parents will never ever truly retire because they would get bored by the second day, so maybe Beth's like that as well. After all, she took some time after Tess and Annie were born to care for them, but as it seems, she didn't just stop working. She just started working from home and took on less hours for years. 

That's probably why it makes sense for Beth to be jumping in on finding another job right away. She WANTS to be working and doing something and maybe she likes to make a little money on top of that. She should take some time, for sure, but I totally see why she doesn't want to. Losing her job has affected her and not even Randall gets it. He got to quit his job and make his own choices. Beth got fired and now is struggling. 

There's a psychological factor, too.  When I lost a beloved job some years ago, I threw myself into job searching as soon as the hangover passed.  I certainly didn't need to for the money (my husband was very-well paid and I was nicely packaged-out), but there's such a feeling of helplessness and uselessness that comes with unexpected job loss that you feel you have to do something to get back in the game right away to prove your employer and validate yourself.

[ljenkins782]

20 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Quote

Milo was really f'n hot this episode.  

He is always so appealing. I love the way he interacted with Kate. He seems to be such a balanced father. His character is so likable and he is a really nice guy. He will respond to you on twitter. 

I only started watching this show very recently and don't know Milo from anything else, so I keep wondering if his Jack Pearson voice is his regular voice? Most of the time it doesn't bother me too much, but sometimes (usually when talking one-on-one with Rebecca), he hits certain words very hard and deliberately in a way that kind of grates on me. I can't tell if it's supposed to be part of the Saint Jack character or that's just the way the guy talks.

I mostly enjoyed this episode. It would have been super dark, but interesting, if things had gone the way they seemed to be heading in Kate/Toby's pre-walk conversation, which I initially thought was Toby leaving her. They could have always have worked it out later, but I felt like that would have been a little more realistic than Toby just suddenly agreeing to go outside after however long he'd been lying in bed.

It's frustrating to watch, but quite believable the way that Toby is constantly talking about feeling bad for Kate over his depression. So, not only depressed and probably upset with himself, but further upset that he's making someone else's life tough too. Depression is a bitch! 

I'm having trouble getting too invested in the Vietnam storyline, but I do like the idea of delving a little more in the Kevin/Jack relationship. Kevin not being home at the time of the fire has got to be as traumatic as the others who were there, he must always wonder what might have been different if he'd been home. The show hasn't really dealt all that much with Kevin's relationship with his parents, outside of the therapy episode (that therapy session was one of my all time favorite scenes of the show, THAT is how real people respond to criticisms/perceived criticisms from family!) and it could be interesting to see more of that.

Can't really bring myself to care about his relationship with Zoe, it has the same "surface" quality as every other relationship we've seen him in. He's in the charm-pouring phase right now, but it doesn't feel all that sincere or deep and she doesn't seem all that invested either. 

I did think Randall going to church was a transparent ploy, so I couldn't be that mad at the councilman for pointing that out in real time. People were going to be saying it behind his back anyway, better that he know how he's coming across and make a new plan. Also, I kind of hope he loses because I don't really understand his plan to hold elected office in another state and I don't really care that much about that storyline.

[maddie965]

Remember when we all loved Randall to pieces, back in season 1? Seems like a lifetime ago. How did they destroy the character so completely? Why did they have to make him the most self-absorved, narcissistic, arrogant, delusional character on the show? Whyyyyy?

I wasn't sure about the Vietnam story, but now I'm totally in. Seems to me they'll turn it into a very powerful arc for Kevin. Can't wait to see my favorite character being the center of the show again. Don't ruin it, please!

God knows the writers are making it  very difficult to like Kate this season, and I say this as a fan. But I can totally see her being strong for Toby. Maybe taking care of someone else will be a turning point for her. I also think being a mother can be very positive for her. Finally, she will stop being Katie girl and become a real woman. She'll stop obsessing about her needs and will concentrate on the needs of a child. It could work.As for Toby, I'm sure he will be a loving, wonderful dad. Depression can be controlled. He'll be alright.

Edited November 1, 2018 by maddie965

[MamaMax]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:38 AM, Arcadiasw said:

I agree they have money but it's a bit contradictory when Beth mentioned she applied to several jobs and hasn't  received a response. Beth hasn't been unemployed long. What's the rush to find another job if she can take her time? We know why but it was weak way to resolve that plot. 

Perhaps Beth doesn't just work for the paycheck?  It seems to me that her unemployment is doing a number on her self-esteem, not her wallet. 

[Cyranetta]

Maybe it's the current social climate, but I wonder if Beth suspects that her being dumped by the company she helped to get going was due to racism, and that's  one thing that makes her psychological state more precarious? It wasn't stated in her firing scene, but it's something that may come up more in future episodes. 

[chocolatine]

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Randall seems to get laser-focused on one thing whether it's putting up a ceiling fan, re-enacting Pilgrim Rick to the t, connecting with a foster child, buying and fixing up a building, whatever it is, he's on it to the exclusion of what's happening under his nose.  I don't know how much he responds to wake-up calls, but he needs one.

The more I think about it the more I want the wake-up call to be that Beth has an emotional affair with Jaewon, because Jaewon seems like the type of guy who listens when a woman tells him she's not OK. They'll both be working on the campaign, so they'll be spending a lot of time together.

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I only started watching this show very recently and don't know Milo from anything else, so I keep wondering if his Jack Pearson voice is his regular voice? Most of the time it doesn't bother me too much, but sometimes (usually when talking one-on-one with Rebecca), he hits certain words very hard and deliberately in a way that kind of grates on me. I can't tell if it's supposed to be part of the Saint Jack character or that's just the way the guy talks.

That's just how he talks. Milo has nerve damage on one side of his face, so he over-enunciates to avoid slurring.

I'm with everyone who thinks Beth's stress is not (just) about money. So much of her identity was wrapped up in being the badass working mother and wife, having/doing it all. Being laid off, which literally means your employer considers you less valuable than other employees, is a gut-punch to someone who is type A like Beth. And a job search is always stressful, many recruiters/hiring managers are really bad at following up, so that adds to the feeling of not being valued. I can also imagine that there aren't many senior-level urban planning jobs available at any given time in any given area, so every time a prospective employer blows her off, Beth sees her options dwindling.

Edited November 1, 2018 by chocolatine

[Christina87]

20 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Wtf, Deja and the other girls starting a gang?  I don’t get why it has to be a gang.

The obsession with Randall’s finances is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.  I wonder if people were this obsessed with the characters in Friends who probably couldn’t afford to live where they did in real life.

I personally remember reading about Friends being unrealistic with the characters' apartments and financial status in a college psychology textbook. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:14 AM, albinerhawk said:

Regarding church, I think the councilman was pointing this out when he asked about Randall's family. 

How did Randall end up in church? I missed the first few minutes. When I tuned in, he was already in church looking confused. 

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

How did Randall end up in church? I missed the first few minutes. When I tuned in, he was already in church looking confused. 

He drove and walked in:)  At the beginning he told Beth he was going to church to campaign, basically.

[Scarlett45]

I loved Rebecca’s advice to Kate. Good to see them getting along. 

Beth has been on edge lately but Tess was completely disrespectful! I was on her side until “Riley’s mom wouldn’t have forgotten the swipper because she doesn’t totally suck.” What in the world?! I’m glad she apologized to her mother. 

Yay for Randall calling Jae-won by his given name. He’s cute. Why are there so many hot men on this show?!!

Edited November 1, 2018 by Scarlett45

[3 is enough]

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Kate & Toby - I'm so proud of them.  It's so easy to fall into thinking all the good things you have are something you don't deserve.  And I totally believe Kate will pull Toby up.  I'm still terrified of what that future-Toby thing is all about. I'm already over-invested in the maybe-baby. This is not a good decision on my part.

Sorry for the mess- something went nuts!  Anyhow, I think we have already seen the future-Toby thing.  The lying in bed scenes look very similar to the one we saw in the finale last spring.  I am pretty sure that he will slowly get better now that he is back on his meds.  Because you know Kate will not stay "strong as hell", she will have another crisis.

Speaking of Toby, it seems that all of the Toby hate has gone away.  He never really bothered me, but evidently a lot of people did not feel the same way.  But it has been ages since I have seen a post voicing this opinion.  I guess the writers find other things to annoy us.

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, Cyranetta said:

Maybe it's the current social climate, but I wonder if Beth suspects that her being dumped by the company she helped to get going was due to racism, and that's  one thing that makes her psychological state more precarious? It wasn't stated in her firing scene, but it's something that may come up more in future episodes. 

It seemed like the same guy who fired her had previously considered her the superstar of the office for a long, long time.

They could always surprise us by showing that a particular client had a problem with her race, or something like that. But I think the writers were pushing the idea that Beth's work was in decline.

20 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Speaking of Toby, it seems that all of the Toby hate has gone away.  He never really bothered me, but evidently a lot of people did not feel the same way.  But it has been ages since I have seen a post voicing this opinion.  I guess the writers find other things to annoy us.

I think they recognized that they'd overdone the "Toby has to have his way" stuff, and the "Toby refuses to let his significant other have boundaries" stuff. And then they gave his myopic selfishness to Randall, and his inability to recognize boundaries to Kevin.

Speaking of Randall, I have a question about the election storyline. Randall is flat-out committing election fraud, isn't he? If he never actually lived in William's apartment, I don't see how he could truly satisfy a residency requirement. (I can see how having his name on the lease might allow him to fool the election officials into thinking he lived there, but that doesn't count as living there, does it?)

[nexxie]

I want to know more about how Beth is not okay - what is she feeling, what are her thoughts and worries, is she having physical symptoms?

Maybe we’ll get more details in time.

[ThisIsMe]

Deja:  Yay!!!  The writers have finally made her likeable.  That was an awesome, Pearson-esque speech she gave Beth.  And, it was so great to see her smile and seem more at peace with her situation.  For the first time, I want to see more of her.

Randall.  I refuse to turn against him.  He still has those wonderful qualities that he had as a little boy and teenager.  The writers have put him into unrealistic situations ... not his fault.

Toby & Kate.  Glad to see signs of progress for Toby.  And, I liked Kate's "for better or worse" talk with him.  

Audio.  Were they in a dog park or did she let him off leash in the regular part o the park?  In any case, I don't think the writers are good with writing pet scenes.  They didn't handle William's cat well, and I'm still not over that!

Kevin.  I'm all in on the Vietnam story line.  I have a feeling the woman in the picture is connected to Nicky, not Jack.  We'll see.  As for Zoe ... what bothers me the most is that there doesn't seem to be much natural chemistry between the actors.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:00 PM, Blakeston said:

His job is definitely in IT. And it must offer a lot of leave, because he was also able to take off a whole lot of time when he had his cardiac episode - and then aimlessly followed Kate around the northeast while she went to fat camp and all of that.

Going to copy @BonnieD here : leave? Who needs to worry about leave to follow your fiancée across the country after you fell ill and ended up hospitalized on the first last-minute trip? 

[lucindabelle]

 I truly think were meant to be taking things at face value here. Beth wasn’t laid off because of dementia or subtle racism or anything like that, but because she’s very expensive, and laid her off saves them a lot of money, and while they value her, they value the other person more. That’s all. Also, just about anyone who’s worked at a job that long and hasn’t had a lot of experience losing jobs in finding new ones it’s going to be depressed. My brother lost his job after 25 years suddenly, and he was so depressed he had to be medicated. He was in his early 50s and convinced he would never get another job. And he had enough money to keep his  Life and his children’s life going for two years there’s no change.

 

Well cut to two years later he’s got a job, not as much money but a good job, wife went back to work, very minimal belt tightening. He’s off any meds and is healthier. 

People in the arts like Kevin are MUCH more used to rejection and change than corporate people who’ve been in one job a long time. I don’t think there’s anything more to what’s going on with Beth than that.

and I think working on the campaign is a GREAT idea. It’s project management and will use her skill, it’s a big change from what she did before, and because it’s so different she won’t be mentally comparing it all the time.

i also tho k Kate TELLING Toby to get dressed was a positive trying: she was taking her moms advice. And guess what? It was what Toby needed. At this moment he does need boundaries and a bit of nurturing/parenting and she’s doing fine. 

[Kira53]

15 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I think it's reasonable to wonder about Randall and Beth's finances. After all, isn't this show supposed to be about people with whom we can connect, who have something in common with their viewers, characters who are "us"? Does the title of the show mean "Hey, this is who we are, just like you guys," or does it mean "This is who we are and we are totally different than you and yours, so watch in puzzlement"?  Most of us viewers aren't in the same financial tier as Randall and Beth and the logistics of having two unemployed parents, long or short term, in a family of five would be very problematic for us. I have several cousins, who by their early 40's, had made enough money so that neither they nor their children will ever have to work again. So I sort of lump Randall into that category, and move on. But perhaps a throwaway line now and then about their financial security would help put the topic to rest a bit. 

1

How many of us are TV/Movie Stars, or Super Multi-Millionaires, or Super Obese? 

[atlanticslide]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:05 PM, ams1001 said:

I was a little bugged on Toby's behalf. Being asked all the time "how are you feeling?" and having it pointed out that you managed to get dressed or whatever just...doesn't help. I've never been so bad off that I didn't get dressed for days (maybe a day on the weekend once in a while but even then I'll eventually take a shower even if I just put my pajamas back on), or missed work or anything like that, but constantly being reminded that you feel like shit is supremely irritating. And then having it noticed when I seem happier than normal just makes me so self-conscious (and reminds me how shitty I was feeling).

[...]

Wow, it took Randall only a few sentences to realize that Beth needed to talk for once. Is that a record? I don't know what I expected from her "I'm not okay" but I'm disappointed the outcome was her working for his campaign. Over it.

Word on both points. When I'm in a bad state, all that it does when people fixate on how I'm doing is make me start faking it and telling them that everything's fine.

I was really, really hoping that Beth's "I'm not okay" would lead to Randall realizing that he needed to focus his attention on his family and end his stupid campaign. Seriously disappointed that instead it led to Beth coming to work on the stupid campaign. So I'm assuming now that he's going to end up winning which, bleh. This storyline is irritating me so much that I'm thinking about dropping the show over it. 

[love2lovebadtv]

14 hours ago, hookedontv said:

Finally-tonight was the first time, to be honest, that I really liked Deja when she was talking to Beth. She did a great job and that conversation was an exceptional piece of writing ;-)

 

So Deja will be a Pearson yet - I think this was her third speech. I think this is about her third. I do think the actress is good and I find it realistic for her to get attached to being called exceptioal. 

15 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Beth worked at her former employer for 12 years, even though she probably made nowhere near what Randall earned; she undoubtedly received severance pay and would be eligible for unemployment.  Randall said they were in grad school at the same time; so she's got an advanced degree.  There is no reason why she shouldn't be taking a step back, taking a deep breath and taking her time.  Even if they didn't apparently have a solid financial base, she doesn't need to get a job to make ends meet.  She has the luxury of finding just the right situation for her.

Beth's feelings have nothing to do with money - not severance, not unemployment, not how much they have saved. She doesn't need to get a job to make ends meet. And you can get unemployment depending on how your severance is paid. I think a graduate degree is standard in this field so I'm not sure that makes her stand out as a candidate. But in any case, it would have been nice to hear from Beth what her thinking is, if/why she doesn't want to take her time. I also know that sometimes people think they're going to take time off but then finding the right fit takes longer than they expect so their break from work is much longer than expected. 

15 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Ha! Good point! Randall and I would be in counseling!

Beth being at her job for 12 years is why I felt Beth should've taken a break instead of jumping back in the job search. Not everyone can do that but she's in a situation where she's financially able to take a break and deal with her loss before getting back in the game again. 

Beth has been at her job for 12 years, but I don't think she worked full-time all those years. She went back to full-time when Randall left his job and she liked knowing that her kids were being taken care of by a loving dad and that she would have an opportunity to shine at work. So I can understand why she wouldn't have wanted to take a break. She is just getting back into the groove. If you go into work waiting for a decision on your proposal only to be laid off, it can feel like your work was unfinished. I think Beth's choice to start looking for a job right away has nothing to do with money. She's not taking a break because she wants to work in her field. A professional job search can take a long time. So even if she won't starve, she may feel like she can't wait to get started. She should at least be networking. A resume usually isn't the first step. If she's staid within her comfort zone for a while, the first thing she may need to do is stay connected with people 

15 hours ago, topanga said:

That’s the thing. She talked about getting a job, but it was obvious—at least to me—was that Beth’s ‘I’m not ok’ was about more than not working. I’m very surprised Randall didn’t have more insight into his wife’s mood. Of course, Beth could’ve been more forthcoming about her feelings, but maybe she didn’t know how to express it. 

It was obvious to me, too. And so real. I think Beth could have expressed herself if Randall had just let her talk. She started out pretty clear: I'm not OK. I hope they revisit this. 

What about that statement indicated that he should start talking and not hear his wife out? And I hope Randall realizes that he should have listened more. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by love2lovebadtv

[methodwriter85]

On 10/31/2018 at 12:50 PM, Soup333 said:

Do any of the kids know about Jack's dream of Big 3 construction? If not then maybe Rebecca mentions it and Randall decides to honor his dad's dream and start a construction company...in Pittsburgh. *shrugs* No more unrealistic than what we've already got.

I really thought that was where the show was going when Randall decided to renovate William's building, but this is just too much. Way  too much suspension of disbelief required for me to buy a non-resident becoming city councilman in one of the largest cities in the United Sates.

[Dowel Jones]

And, after he finally gets the building done, he has a moment of Randall-inspiration, goes for the grand gesture,  and renames it Deja View Apartments.

[Kdawg82]

7 hours ago, nexxie said:

I want to know more about how Beth is not okay - what is she feeling, what are her thoughts and worries, is she having physical symptoms?

Maybe we’ll get more details in time.

Whenever Beth has been under stress, we've seen subtle tendencies for substances around her. Smoking weed with William, usually a glass of wine or scotch in front of her in the evening. Now I know better than anyone how to "decompress" with wine. I'm just making an observation here . Is she turning to alcohol? We'll see, I suppose. 

[Kdawg82]

4 hours ago, Kira53 said:

But perhaps a throwaway line now and then about their financial security would help put the topic to rest a bit. 

This is what I was looking for. Have a scene where they're sitting there with checkbooks and saying "oh..let's use the x account bc y account is for the kid's expenses" something like that. Ridiculous $ I can accept but show us something to indicate one way or other. Deja destroying the Mercedes with a baseball bat was glossed over entirely and Randall was so proud he bought it for cash. Show us the body shop and a sharp exhale when he hears the cost of repair . It's ok if he still loves the child anyway- kids are more important than $ and possessions but we want to see more than speechifying.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

This is what I was looking for. Have a scene where they're sitting there with checkbooks and saying "oh..let's use the x account bc y account is for the kid's expenses" something like that. Ridiculous $ I can accept but show us something to indicate one way or other. Deja destroying the Mercedes with a baseball bat was glossed over entirely and Randall was so proud he bought it for cash. Show us the body shop and a sharp exhale when he hears the cost of repair . It's ok if he still loves the child anyway- kids are more important than $ and possessions but we want to see more than speechifying.

I agree, they did more in the beginning, it wasn't taken for granted, but with two out of work basically, nice to have a line about how they have a large cushion.  As Sarah Jessica Parker would say about Sex in the City, everyone knew Carrie couldn't do her lifestyle and shoes with a writers salary but they accepted it because finances were spoken about on occasion (rent control, getting loan from friend Charlotte) and they liked seeing her buy. But it's TV so we can't be too critical.

I was surprised the selling of the cookies seemed so "off" ,usually here they have places to sell but I'm sure it varies. I'm glad mine just had to sell some candy for school.

I'm also surprised Randall didn't just say Kate bought 200, Kevin 300, and Gramma 100 and cut a big check. It's endless. Sure, you miss bugging people to buy your cookies but there are buildings to buy and places to give speeches, hey cookies might win over a few votes. lol

Edited November 2, 2018 by debraran

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 10/30/2018 at 7:33 PM, CleoCaesar said:

This is the episode that made me think "Huh, I'm probably not going to be watching in season 4." Just pure tedium.

I'm with you and totally bummed to be in this space.  The first 2 seasons were great and emotional.  Now every time that music starts and one of the characters starts some sort of speech I want to drink my own urine just to have something to distract me from listening to the corny, self-centered, unrealistic spiel that is about to be presented.  Now it's just getting to be too much. 

[Kdawg82]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Sex in the City, everyone knew Carrie couldn't do her lifestyle and shoes with a writers salary but they accepted it because finances were spoken about on occasion (rent control, getting loan from friend Charlotte) and they liked seeing her buy

I was just thinking about this yesterday! Charlotte giving a loan to Carrie against her engagement ring. And "it's not my job to fix your finances." Rough but realistic . 

And what ever happened to the building repairs Randall and Kevin worked on? That was a kind of dilapidated building.  I live in a 90s-built, one family home and literally, the repairs could go on daily if we had the time. 

[debraran]

27 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was just thinking about this yesterday! Charlotte giving a loan to Carrie against her engagement ring. And "it's not my job to fix your finances." Rough but realistic . 

And what ever happened to the building repairs Randall and Kevin worked on? That was a kind of dilapidated building.  I live in a 90s-built, one family home and literally, the repairs could go on daily if we had the time. 

Amen to that, I am looking for handyman now since my 1944 house is crying daily. ; )

Yes, TV likes to gloss over finances but some really believe they can do what Carrie did.  I liked shows like The Middle and Everybody Loves Raymond because it was more aware of finances and discussed it often but not as much fun as watching Carrie buy Milano's. (I'm not a shoe person so lost on me)

Yes, I don't know about building, it was just assumed it was finished?

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Deja destroying the Mercedes with a baseball bat was glossed over entirely and Randall was so proud he bought it for cash.

She didn't. She broke the windshield -- not even the Pearson family relic (Jack's bat). Replacing a windshield costs either a $200 deductible if Randall didn't opt for glass coverage, or nothing. 

[kili]

Quote

She didn't. She broke the windshield -- not even the Pearson family relic (Jack's bat). Replacing a windshield costs either a $200 deductible if Randall didn't opt for glass coverage, or nothing. 

A person can't just take a baseball bat to a relative's car and have insurance pay for it. If it is just a crack caused by a flying rock on the road the insurance company will pay up without a perpetrator being identified because it's usually hard to figure out the source of the rock  and/or that's just a part of driving done without malice. Having your car window smashed in by an actual person generally requires a police report before the insurance company will pay to fix it. I don't think that Randall and Beth wanted to file a police report against Deja. If they know who damaged their car (they do) and lied about it, I think that would be insurance fraud.

If a crock pot burns down your house by accident, insurance will pay. If you burn it down on purpose, they won't.

I think Randall had to pay to fix the car and I thought Deja hit more than just the windshield.

[Kdawg82]

56 minutes ago, kili said:

think Randall had to pay to fix the car and I thought Deja hit more than just the windshield

This. Looked like she hit or damaged more than windshield. Mercedes owner here (several) and you're looking at likely over $1000, not $200. But it's semantics. It's one example of what I'd like to see covered, not ignored. I don't care either way. I'm just saying that I want back the daily life family show that we had. They can't even cram in their interactions and lifestyle in a 24 hour period. More than finances it's flying to CA, back to Philly, drive back to NJ and off to a NYC movie premier. They dont even give the vibe of people who may have missed some sleep. Except Toby maybe.

 

Bc it's Friday, I fact-checked and see Randall drives a Mercedes AMG S63 Sedan. So, cheap "made in China" glass would run about $1000+. Dealership, you're talking double.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Kdawg82

[TwoGrayTabbies]

I don’t expect detailed attention to financial issues, but when a show with a realistic setting purports to resonate with viewers’ real life feelings, I expect characters to experience realistic consequences for their actions.  TIU fails on this point fairly consistently, but right now it’s going overboard with Randall.  A family losing both primary sources of income would realistically be concerned about finances.  Even if their investments generate enough income to support the household, they would realistically be concerned about their long-term wellbeing, meeting retirement goals, cutting back on spending to conserve.  

But the lack of realism in Randall and Beth’s family finances is nothing compared to the unreality in the adoption of Deja.  A kid who experienced that much trauma doesn’t get it out of her system with one windshield smash.  A real life Deja would need substantial counseling and support from her new family, which Randall can’t believably provide when his time and energy are focused on his quixotic campaign for an out-of-state office.

And then there’s the dilapidated low-rent apartment building he’s operating as a one-man housing agency.  Two-men when Kevin is in town.  

This is not to say that Kevin and Kate’s stories are entirely believable.  I will see to them in another episode’s post.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, kili said:

A person can't just take a baseball bat to a relative's car and have insurance pay for it. If it is just a crack caused by a flying rock on the road the insurance company will pay up without a perpetrator being identified because it's usually hard to figure out the source of the rock  and/or that's just a part of driving done without malice. Having your car window smashed in by an actual person generally requires a police report before the insurance company will pay to fix it. I don't think that Randall and Beth wanted to file a police report against Deja. If they know who damaged their car (they do) and lied about it, I think that would be insurance fraud.

If a crock pot burns down your house by accident, insurance will pay. If you burn it down on purpose, they won't.

I think Randall had to pay to fix the car and I thought Deja hit more than just the windshield.

I suppose it varies by insurance company, but I've had my windshield replaced twice, at no cost, and the company did not question me as to what happened.  In the case of Deja, they might very well have just taken care of it themselves to avoid problems with Deja's situation and increased premiums.  I would have liked to have seen her behavior addressed, instead of totally ignored, because there was really a bigger problem than a windshield and it seems to have just been papered over.  She looks all nicely settled into the family, even counseling Beth, and that is not realistic, it does not happen in a short period of time, as TwoGrayTabbies said.