S03.E03 Katie Girls

[Ohmo]

Quote

Kate wasn't' just saying, Hey I want to try all fertility stuff first, she was willing to risk her LIFE to have a bio kid. 

Along with that, Rebecca was catching some flack for her reaction to Kate's decision.  Let's also not forget the manner in which Kate was born.  She herself was a triplet, and there is no indication that had anything to do with IVF.  Multiple births run in Kate's family anyway.  Rebecca also had a complication that resulted in Kyle's death, and Rebecca was not Kate's size.  It's been awhile since I've seen the pilot, but wasn't Kevin delivered first, then Kate was delivered (or almost out), and THEN the complication happened?  Kate's likely to have a multiple pregnancy because of the IVF, and her mother has a history of complications.  Who knows if she'll have a similar problem as Rebecca did, but she might.  There could be a family tendency there.  This isn't all about the weight, and I think everyone (including the doctor) is blowing by that point.  Rebecca lost a child and she wasn't obese.  Add Kate's weight issues to the Pearson family history, and no wonder Rebecca reacted as she did.  She lived it, and Kate seems to not remember how she came into this world.

[Katy M]

27 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Maybe he only changed ONE lightbulb, but it was a helluvalot better than doing NOTHING which was apparently her method of dealing.

Exactly. Anybody could have changed that light bulb.  But, nobody did.  They'd rather complain about it.

[PRgal]

50 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think she is being inappropriately demanding of Randall.  It's none of her business why he bought the building;

I think Chichi has a "thing" for Randall.  He better not fall into that trap. 

[topanga]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I think Chichi has a "thing" for Randall.  He better not fall into that trap. 

Beth would not be having that. Then again, he sees Chi Chi when he’s far from home, so...

Run, Randall!!

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I didn't find ChiChi condescending at all, she probably sees Randall as yet another "do-gooder," another "wannabe savior" who makes a lot of promises and doesn't deliver.  ChiChi has probably seen them come and seen them go.

And she’s bitter because of it. 

[Neurochick]

So what should ChiChi have done?  Jumped up and down and kissed Randall's feet?

[Dreamboat Annie]

15 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

There is a difference between being sociopathic and simply self involved. I don't see any sociopathic tendencies in Zoe she is a very emotional person. Not every selfish person is a sociopath. Also we have seen Zoe care about something important to Kevin when she insisted on showing up for his birthday. I do think she is somewhat selfish but so is Kevin.

I'm aware of the difference.  I don't know that Beth would have bothered to sit someone down to warn them about someone who is simply self involved or somewhat selfish, especially if the person she's warning is somewhat selfish too.  Beth's concern seemed to go a little beyond that.

I disagree that Kevin is selfish.  While selfishness is a trait of an addict, I don't think sober Kevin is selfish.  He's a sweet guy, and that makes him a target.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Dreamboat Annie

[Soup333]

44 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

So what should ChiChi have done?  Jumped up and down and kissed Randall's feet?

Maybe say thanks? Instead of thanks BUT you didn’t blah, blah, blah. Her comment about people promising to do things and not following through was unnecessary. She could have thought it but why say that to someone who has just told you he’s going to help you? 

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I'm aware of the difference.  I don't know that Beth would have bothered to sit someone down to warn them about someone who is simply self involved or just somewhat selfish, especially if the person she's warning is somewhat selfish too.  Beth's concern seemed to go a little beyond that.

I disagree that Kevin is selfish.  While selfishness is a trait of an addict, I don't think sober Kevin is selfish.  He's a sweet guy, and that makes him a target.

So, you think Zoe is going to kill Kevin?

[Dreamboat Annie]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

So, you think Zoe is going to kill Kevin?

No.  I just think she sees a source of supply for a while. 

[balmz]

58 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Maybe say thanks? Instead of thanks BUT you didn’t blah, blah, blah. Her comment about people promising to do things and not following through was unnecessary. She could have thought it but why say that to someone who has just told you he’s going to help you? 

All she had to do was say thanks for helping out, every bit is nice

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

So what should ChiChi have done?  Jumped up and down and kissed Randall's feet?

No, she should just show him the respect and good manners that she would want shown to her.  Randall did what he did; I didn't see him bragging about it or expecting a parade to be thrown in his honor.  I never saw him fish for compliments.  By the same token, he doesn't deserve to be dragged because he didn't do everything she thought needed to be done, in particular, since it was very clear that ChiChi seemingly doesn't do anything to improve her lot in life or anyone else's.

[seacliffsal]

On 10/11/2018 at 2:25 PM, Dejana said:

If we go with Rebecca being born in 1950 (I think she mentioned she would be 30 soon, when she got pregnant), she could have graduated from high school in 1968, approximately. So if the wood shop scene was supposed to be in, say, 1965, that was still a time where fairly rigid dress codes at public schools were pretty widespread and prior to the hippie movement being mainstream.

I also have to remember that I grew up in the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Area, so we probably started seeing the hippie clothing trend before other parts of the country did.  So, I need to take some of my rant about the clothing back.  Sigh.  I'll blame it on the Hurricane (I watched the episode while home due to schools being closed because of the hurricane's approach and potential for destruction).

[breezy424]

ChiChi has too much of a chip on her shoulder.  She's got an attitude problem.

My sister was Rebecca's age.  Sorry. Nope.  That outfit was very fifties.  Not sixties.

I really don't care about Becca and Jack - the early years.  I'd rather see the Pearson three - the early years.  Jack is dead.  Sorry, but that's what it is. 

[bros402]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:19 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Interesting, so far it's only eggs and not embryos.  I don't know how long that fertilization process takes in IVF, maybe there is a waiting period?  If so, why did Toby have to 'produce' on the spot?  Drama?

Drama, they probably would have used the sperm from their initial visit when they were checking his sperm count and just thawed them.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I just realized I have not cried at any episode this season yet, unlike the previous two where I cried almost every time.

I think it is so funny viewers are commenting on the fact that Kate didn't give the youngest Kate any advice.  What would the point be because that Kate ceases to actually exist?  What if she had said something to change her outcome?  IT'S LIKE YOU ALL WANT TO MESS WITH THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUUM!!!

  It must have been fun for all the actresses to do that scenes together though with Jack.

[Guest]

Regarding ChiChi not being grateful, I think when someone seems to swoop in with a savior concept, it can come across as condescending- whether intentional or not. ChiChi may have a chip on her shoulder, but she also may very well have reason to be wary of someone like Randall who (as we’ve seen about other things) wil be super-dedicated to something until he’s just not when he moves on to something else. Overall, he’s been the one inserting himself into ChiChi’s life; she’s not obligated to welcome that.

[Christina87]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:18 PM, dcubed said:

(I added the bold in the quote).  Except she really did in many ways....no career, a mom and a housewife (not that there is anything wrong with that), no apparent friends.  It’s so interesting and to me, very true to life.  I always said I wouldn’t be like my mom but darn it, I am despite my best efforts.  The difference is that today, I can appreciate some of those acquired characteristics more.

I'm interested to see this transition too. Honestly, I think it would have been WAY better if they had made Rebecca someone who wanted to be a doctor, nurse, or some other job like that that requires specialized training. It would make me want to yell, "you go, girl!" to see her as a young girl being critical of her parents' marriage, and then taking a path more similar to her father's. It would be cool to see her fighting to go to college, whether she was successful or not. I'd love to see her become something like a nurse, and work hard to not become her mother, at least for a while. 

Instead, Rebecca minds me more of a twelve-year-old girl whining about wanting to be a famous singer. For someone whose identity is having a career, she doesn't have one, does she? I don't see her getting up at the crack of dawn to go put in an eight-hour day. Singing in bars is what most of us would refer to as a hobby. In many ways, Rebecca appears to have been a coddled upper-middle-class girl, though she does seem genuine in her desire to want to do something with her life. It's just interesting to me how becoming a famous singer is her ambition, not a more practical career. A singing career is perceived as a lot of people as glamorous and easier than a normal job once you make it, and you call all the shots. It would be interesting to see Rebecca have to do dull office work for a while to get by, and see how she feels about being a career woman then. It's easy to say you're all about having a career when you've never actually had to do the work for one, especially if you don't like every aspect of the work or you have a bad boss, etc.

So far, I haven't seen anything from Rebecca that suggests she has the work ethic to be a career woman except talk. I would like to see this character move to LA and try to make her singing career work, while having to take a less glamorous job to get by. If they went in this direction, I could definitely see her deciding to stay home with the triplets when the time comes. Some women work a full day in a job that doesn't fulfill them and then come home and raise their kids, but I just don't see Rebecca having the stamina or desire to do that! I think what she REALLY wants is a partner who sees her as an equal, which jack does. That will be the difference between her marriage and her mother's!

ETA: I am also really rooting for present-day Rebecca to be a career woman!!! She is always wearing suits, and I'm sure Miguel would be supportive of that endeavor. I used to date a guy whose mom stayed home with them, but is now extremely successful in a career! I would love to see Rebecca successful in her own right once the kids are grown. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Christina87

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:54 AM, PRgal said:

Is Hannah Ziele (spelling?) wearing a fat suit?  She looks "bigger" in the dream sequence.  

Yes ?

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Christina87 said:

So far, I haven't seen anything from Rebecca that suggests she has the work ethic to be a career woman except talk. I would like to see this character move to LA and try to make her singing career work, while having to take a less glamorous job to get by. If they went in this direction, I could definitely see her deciding to stay home with the triplets when the time comes. Some women work a full day in a job that doesn't fulfill them and then come home and raise their kids, but I just don't see Rebecca having the stamina or desire to do that! I think what she REALLY wants is a partner who sees her as an equal, which jack does. That will be the difference between her marriage and her mother's!

ETA: I am also really rooting for present-day Rebecca to be a career woman!!! She is always wearing suits, and I'm sure Miguel would be supportive of that endeavor. I used to date a guy whose mom stayed home with them, but is now extremely successful in a career! I would love to see Rebecca successful in her own right once the kids are grown. 

She actually was moving in that direction, immediately before Jack died.  They were talking about her working side by side with him in his construction business he wanted to start.  As you say, we may yet see her do something like this when the almost-grown kids are more adjusted (well, they still totally aren't, are they?) to their dad's death.  She could have even done something with Miguel but he might have been close to retirement when they got together sometime after Tess was born.  I am guessing they went with the singing career because Mandy is a singer, but maybe not and they wrote the singing into the part before she was cast.  It would have been more relatable to the general audience to have her in something else than show business, which always bores the shizzle out of me. 

[Christina87]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

She actually was moving in that direction, immediately before Jack died.  They were talking about her working side by side with him in his construction business he wanted to start.  As you say, we may yet see her do something like this when the almost-grown kids are more adjusted (well, they still totally aren't, are they?) to their dad's death.  She could have even done something with Miguel but he might have been close to retirement when they got together sometime after Tess was born.  I am guessing they went with the singing career because Mandy is a singer, but maybe not and they wrote the singing into the part before she was cast.  It would have been more relatable to the general audience to have her in something else than show business, which always bores the shizzle out of me. 

I agree with everything you said!!! I think it would have been an interesting story arc if she'd wanted to be a nurse, for instance, and her parents said no to college. Then she could have chased that dream and gotten some sort of Jill duggar-like midwife training, or something like that, and worked the hell out of that career, always dreaming of going back to school and getting her RN. Then, she could have either gone with that path, freelanced while she had kids, or decided...you know what, a career's not really for me after all, and stayed home with the kids, realizing her mom's life wasn't really that awful. 

Or it even would have been fun to see her dad say she could only go to college but major in English, like her ex's mom did. She could have gone all Angela Bower on us and gotten a small copywriting job, and then worked her way up the ladder. 

I agree, a singing career might have been for Mandy, but it's just not relatable. I wish they'd even had her working in a practical job while pursuing that on the side! All I see how is a spoiled girl who prattles on about wanting a career, but has never worked a day in her life, and is planning to work in a career that realistically is open to few people. She reminds me of myself at seventeen, wanting to go out and set the working world ablaze. Now at 30, i think the working world sucks, at least in my experience. If I met a guy who said I could stay home, I would do it in an instant and consider it my dream job, though I was so critical of my mom being a SAHM when I was in high school. When you get older, you have life experiences and can drastically change your mind. I just hope Rebecca does work in some capacity so she really does change her mind, instead of just settling for her mom's life. 

[theatremouse]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:04 AM, seacliffsal said:

The problem with 50s era Rebecca is that as they are portraying her in the show she would have attended high school in the late 1960s/early 1970s.  

I thought the show said she was 28 when the kids were born in 1980? So she did go to high school in the late 60s.

[Kira53]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:07 PM, Katy M said:

I don't know where to start.

I liked the dream sequence, but I was hoping it would end with Kate deciding she wasn't going to be a mother.  I did like her talk with teen Kate about how she would be OK.  I guess that means like she finally feels she's OK.  And that's good.

I think Randall had every right to ask about what Kate meant about adoption.  While I don't believe in IVF, I don't think he had a right to get all holier than thou about it, especially, as Kate pointed out that he had biological children well before he thought about adopting.

If neither Beth or Randall have jobs (and I don't think running for office coutns as a job until/if you win the election), I don't think they can adopt Deja.  So, maybe the IVF goes all wrong and Toby and Kate adopt her and she is the she in the future?  Who knows?  How much red tape is there to adopting an out-of-state ward of the state?

2

My neighbor was a retired senior citizen of limited income when she adopted three teenaged foster children who were siblings.  They had been living with her for many years under the foster care system.  Actually, the government also gave her a monthly stipend to continue to take care of them.  This was in New York's State.  I know they want minority children who are teenagers to have a sit sure home and to be loved.  When the children that are foster children are adopted they are no longer put out on the street the minute that they become 18.  They have a family and that is something that money can't buy.  I think Deja is already adopted but if she's not, I don't think there would be a problem. Beth and Randall without jobs are a lot more secure and financially stable than Deja's mother ever was.

[Kira53]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:13 PM, Neurochick said:

For me, the problem with this show is, once we found out Jack was dead and found out how he died, I felt like Jack's story was over.  I don't get why we have to keep seeing him.

Cause he's one of the leads. 

No one's story is ever over.  Nope, not William's either.  The show moves back and forth in time.  There was an urgent desire to know how Jack died because we knew he had died.  That doesn't mean that Jack's story before his death is not part of the show.  We see everyone's younger selves.  A lot of the show is about the past, About peoples histories and how they became the people they are today and even who they will become in the future.  

[DebbieM4]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:28 AM, Colleenna said:

I'm older, and one semester of shop was REQUIRED of girls in 8th grade. One semester of home ec was required for boys. I remember that I made wooden bookends. So I think it depends on where you grew up.

I think it definitely depends on where you grew up.  In my high school, girls took Home Economics (cooking, sewing) and boys took Shop.  But there was a Home Economics cooking class specifically for boys, and girls were allowed to take Shop if they wanted.   Few girls took Shop, but the boys' cooking class was very popular.  So there were certainly options in my area (Long Island, NY).

[Mystery]

I somehow screwed up all of my quotes, so I'll just have to remember what people said. 

Most important: thanks to the poster who gave us the screenshots of Jack doing the dishes, (1) for the great conversation it sparked about what's REALLY important in a partner, and (2) because a man with rolled-up sleeves just does something for me! I can't explain it. 

I agree with the person who mentioned sociopathy with Zoe. I'm not calling her a criminal, but I think they've written her as someone for whom other people aren't real. At least until they can give her something. She has her interest in Jack's story now, and that's what she wants out of Kevin. 

It also seemed to me that Hannah Zeile was wearing a fat suit. Because I lost the quote, I had to go look her up on IMDB and now I know that her mother was Julianne McNamera, Olympic gymnast. Pretty cool. 

I hope that Beth didn't take their severance agreement. That was all kinds of odd and abrupt, unless the show just wanted her to have free time and couldn't think of another way to do it. 

[-pj-]

About Rebecca, I agree with others that it she was given the singing career as Mandy was playing her. But I wished they had kept it as a hobby. She never wanted to ge her mother and I know things change and happen that might cause that to happen. But in her teens and 20s she didn’t really have aim or drive for it. It seemed she did it so she didn’t have to do the norm. (Reminds me a bit of Kate there) so a building a career would have been perfect  

I would have loved it had she had a career before the kids and maybe gone back to it when they were teens. That would have been interesting to play out. 

[ChromaKelly]

I went through IVF and I was not knocked out completely for the egg retrieval. It was twilight anesthesia. It can be done with just a local too (although that's more painful), but given that Kate's weight and anesthesia were the big danger here, I wonder why that option was never offered.
I'm really not trying to harp on the "Kate's too fat to be a parent" thing, but looking at her, I just can't see how a doctor would sign off on doing IVF. I don't think she's too fat to be a mother, but a pregnancy at her weight has to be seriously risky. Sigh. This is all for The Drama.

Did I miss something? What did Randall say to Kate that was soooo horrible? Maybe I wasn't paying full attention last week.
Ugh, I'm not digging savior Randall either. Him moving to Philly to run for council is so stupid and he would be blasted as a NJ suburban carpetbagger thinking he's better than them. 
So, Rebecca didn't want to be a housewife waiting for her husband to come home, but what does she end up being with Jack? I can't believe she told her boyfriend's mom that there's another guy and she's going to dump her son.

[babs1226]

To me this show just keeps getting better and better.  I love learning about how Rebecca and Jack got together.  I loved seeing William again, and I hope he shows up often.  I have nothing to criticize.  It's all good.

[sasha206]

Wait...Randall flies cross-country for a simple egg retrieval?  When I had egg retrieval, it wasn't put under, just way relaxed on a morphine drip.  

[AllThatJazz91]

4 hours ago, babs1226 said:

To me this show just keeps getting better and better.  I love learning about how Rebecca and Jack got together.  I loved seeing William again, and I hope he shows up often.  I have nothing to criticize.  It's all good.

It's getting better in some aspects for me. The season has started off a bit slow, so I'm hoping it picks up soon. When it comes to William, I do like his character but I feel like we've seen enough of him. I was surprised when he popped up a few times. I didn't think he would at all this season. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:56 AM, qtpye said:

Don't forget the ones that never send the check.

In a world where overpopulation is rampant, all human beings are sterilized at birth through a procedure that only is lifted after years the person shows years of financial and emotional stability to apply for a childbearing license for the ultimate symbol of success...a new baby!-Ghostwriters get on that stat.

You guys should be in the writing room of This is Us! 

I'm a voracious reader, especially of YA apocalyptic fiction or just apocalyptic fiction and I'd read the s--- out of those books! Excellent premise. We have such a creative group here, I love it. This group gives me so much food for thought. Thank you all. 

[ChromaKelly]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Wait...Randall flies cross-country for a simple egg retrieval?  When I had egg retrieval, it wasn't put under, just way relaxed on a morphine drip.  

I know. And they kept calling it "surgery". I don't recall it being referred to as surgery. They just kinda stuck something up there and sucked some eggs out. This show makes me even more glad I lived out of state from my family and I told no one except a few close friends that we were even doing IVF.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Wait...Randall flies cross-country for a simple egg retrieval?  When I had egg retrieval, it wasn't put under, just way relaxed on a morphine drip.  

Randall flies across the country effortlessly, on a whim like just running off to the airport to a waiting plane and making it to the hospital in time for Kate's proceedure. Magically. Then he turns around and he runs back to the airport hops on another waiting plane and gets home, not once did we even get a flavor of how long that flight is (5 hours flying time) not to mention buying a ticket for the very next flight, getting thru security then never once complaining of jet lag.  I call BS on all of that working out so easily.  I am really fixated on Randall's travel arrangements.

[sasha206]

4 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Randall flies across the country effortlessly, on a whim like just running off to the airport to a waiting plane and making it to the hospital in time for Kate's proceedure. Magically. Then he turns around and he runs back to the airport hops on another waiting plane and gets home, not once did we even get a flavor of how long that flight is (5 hours flying time) not to mention buying a ticket for the very next flight, getting thru security then never once complaining of jet lag.  I call BS on all of that working out so easily.  I am really fixated on Randall's travel arrangements.

Right?  That's what I don't like about this show.  The whims these idiots go on, in addition to the speeches,  that would never happen like that in real life.

[athousandclowns]

On October 12, 2018 at 4:07 PM, seacliffsal said:

I also have to remember that I grew up in the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Area, so we probably started seeing the hippie clothing trend before other parts of the country did.  So, I need to take some of my rant about the clothing back.  Sigh.  I'll blame it on the Hurricane (I watched the episode while home due to schools being closed because of the hurricane's approach and potential for destruction).

Mid 60s South Bay Area and we could only wear pants on Fridays ( not jeans) so it was straight or pleated skirts  with matching sweaters.  Think Wally Clever.  Then few years later on weekends we would dress hippy iron my long hair and go to the Height . It was great.   I think of it now with the home economics  and secretarial classes , shutter. 

I always appreciate accuracy in clothing and hair too. 

Hope you remain safe. 

[methodwriter85]

I had no problem with Rebecca's 1966 outfit. She clearly comes from a conservative area, and her hair flip was pure early/mid-60's.

[kili]

Quote

 It's been awhile since I've seen the pilot, but wasn't Kevin delivered first, then Kate was delivered (or almost out), and THEN the complication happened?  Kate's likely to have a multiple pregnancy because of the IVF, and her mother has a history of complications.  Who knows if she'll have a similar problem as Rebecca did, but she might.

They were a little vague about the cause: "The third baby was a little boy, but the, uh, umbilical cord was cutting off his oxygen." 

That could happen if the cord got tied in a knot, wrapped around his neck or prolapsed (part of it entered the birth canal and got pinched as the baby entered). None of those things really have anything to do with Rebecca's genetics or multiple births. I've heard that there is actually less chance of the cord getting tied in a knot with multiples because there isn't as much room to do gymnastics in the womb. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Kyle that was being born when the trouble started since moving to enter the birth canal would either cause the prolapse, strangulation or closing of the knot.

Kate is going to face a lot of risks, but Kyle's death doesn't seem all that relevant. What it is relevant to is Rebecca's fear because the dangers of birth are very real to her. She will not want to lose another of her triplets.

Quote

Randall flies across the country effortlessly, on a whim like just running off to the airport to a waiting plane and making it to the hospital in time for Kate's proceedure. Magically. Then he turns around and he runs back to the airport hops on another waiting plane and gets home, not once did we even get a flavor of how long that flight is (5 hours flying time) not to mention buying a ticket for the very next flight, getting thru security then never once complaining of jet lag. 

At least he is flying from one hub (New York area) to another hub (LAX). There must be planes leaving all the time. It's totally doable. Businesses are always buying last minute tickets and they are fully refundable and changeable (just watch The Amazing Race). Randall will have zero jet lag because he arrived in LA during what would be daytime in both time zones and was back by night. He never had to adjust to another time zone. Although, with 10 hours of flying, he probably started his day early. Maybe he napped on the plane. 

[debraran]

As a parent of 3, 2 multiples, I felt an emptiness that Kyle was given such short shrift. I know he was put there to have Randall enter later, well, sooner than later, but you don't deliver 3 children, and not have something of theirs. He was full term, was there a picture, she didn't hold him, I realize reactions are all different, but it seemed odd to me. She couldn't say goodbye to Kyle, but welcomes Randall fairly quickly? I don't know the perfect way to have written it, but it always bothered me. Maybe monitoring and C sections were not done as often then, but burial for a full term baby was done.  Was there a place for Kyle, did they just leave him there. I'm sorry, I can't' imagine it.  : (

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/11/2018 at 2:25 PM, Dejana said:

If we go with Rebecca being born in 1950 (I think she mentioned she would be 30 soon, when she got pregnant), she could have graduated from high school in 1968, approximately. So if the wood shop scene was supposed to be in, say, 1965, that was still a time where fairly rigid dress codes at public schools were pretty widespread and prior to the hippie movement being mainstream.

Yup. My mom was born in 1949 and graduated in 67. She figured the shop class scene was around 65. She loved Rebecca's whole look...hair, dress. She thought it was very true to that time down to Rebecca's hair with the bangs. In fact my mom commented that she was sure the show runners had been studying old yearbooks. 

Rebecca was about to turn 30 soon after super bowl 1980...episode: The Game Plan. 

Ps. My dad was born in 43, a year before Jack. He went immediately into the army at Fort Eustis, VA in 1962 after graduating hs in 61. No Vietnam as he had done his time by the draft. But I gotta say, the scene with the old man at the end (who gets the email from Kevin) made me sad. These Nam era men are getting old. My dad included. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/11/2018 at 5:09 PM, doodlebug said:

We don’t know if Kevin and Kyle were identical, but monozygotic twins (fancy term for identical) don’t run in families anyway, they’re mostly a random event.  However, we obviously know that Rebecca had dizygotic multiples at the very least since Kevin and Kate are fraternal(duh!)

The rate of natural fraternal twinning (no fertility drugs) is about 1% in Caucasians.  However, the genetic tendency for having dizygotic twins is multifactorial, meaning it is not a straightforward inheritance. Obviously, it is passed from mother to daughter and the rate of twinning in the daughters of moms with twins is 5%. So, it’s 5 times more common than in non-twin families, but still not very common.

I know everyone would be shocked to know that I was a genetics major prior to becoming an OB/GYN.  The rate of natural (no drugs) triplets is about 1:10000 births.  I’ve only seen one set . 3 girls; a set of identical twins with a fraternal sister. I did have a GYN patient who had a single baby with her first pregnancy, natural twins with her second and natural triplets with her third.  She then got her tubes tied.

I went to high school w a set of triplets where two were identical and the other was fraternal. 

[topanga]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

As a parent of 3, 2 multiples, I felt an emptiness that Kyle was given such short shrift. I know he was put there to have Randall enter later, well, sooner than later, but you don't deliver 3 children, and not have something of theirs. He was full term, was there a picture, she didn't hold him, I realize reactions are all different, but it seemed odd to me. She couldn't say goodbye to Kyle, but welcomes Randall fairly quickly? I don't know the perfect way to have written it, but it always bothered me. Maybe monitoring and C sections were not done as often then, but burial for a full term baby was done.  Was there a place for Kyle, did they just leave him there. I'm sorry, I can't' imagine it.  : (

I don’t think Rebecca was ready to ‘replace’ Kyle quickly, and I certainly don’t think she was ready to adopt another baby, and she made her feelings clear.  But St. Jack and St. OB Doctor thought that adopting Randall was the best thing for her and their family—and for Randall of course, so Jack tugged at her hear strings till he wore her down. 

I don’t know if Rebecca was given the chance to hold Kyle. I don’t if that was effer offered to her. I don’t think she ever had a chance to grieve Kyle’s death, which is probably one of the reasons it was hard for her to bond with Randall. 

15 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Right?  That's what I don't like about this show.  The whims these idiots go on, in addition to the speeches,  that would never happen like that in real life.

True. But I just roll with it and try to accept it. TV dialogue isn’t realistic at all. Otherwise, we’d have a lot more people saying, ‘Huh? What? Because they didn’t hear what someone said.’

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, topanga said:

True. But I just roll with it and try to accept it. TV dialogue isn’t realistic at all. Otherwise, we’d have a lot more people saying, ‘Huh? What? Because they didn’t hear what someone said.’

That made me chuckle.  We also never see people going to the bathroom or coming out.  Which we all do several times a day. 

[CountryGirl]

On 10/13/2018 at 2:39 AM, bros402 said:

Drama, they probably would have used the sperm from their initial visit when they were checking his sperm count and just thawed them.

This is not for "drama." That is often the standard protocol as doctors tend to prefer to use fresh sperm to fertilize the eggs. Also, depending on when the initial sample was taken/frozen, the man might be on supplements, etc. for a period of time to help improve his count, motility, etc. and it would be better to use as recent a sample as possible (i.e. fresh). 

[sasha206]

38 minutes ago, topanga said:

True. But I just roll with it and try to accept it. TV dialogue isn’t realistic at all. Otherwise, we’d have a lot more people saying, ‘Huh? What? Because they didn’t hear what someone said.’

No question about TV dialogue, but I think this show is one of the worst offenders with the speechified talk.  

[debraran]

42 minutes ago, topanga said:

I don’t think Rebecca was ready to ‘replace’ Kyle quickly, and I certainly don’t think she was ready to adopt another baby, and she made her feelings clear.  But St. Jack and St. OB Doctor thought that adopting Randall was the best thing for her and their family—and for Randall of course, so Jack tugged at her hear strings till he wore her down. 

I don’t know if Rebecca was given the chance to hold Kyle. I don’t if that was effer offered to her. I don’t think she ever had a chance to grieve Kyle’s death, which is probably one of the reasons it was hard for her to bond with Randall. 

True. But I just roll with it and try to accept it. TV dialogue isn’t realistic at all. Otherwise, we’d have a lot more people saying, ‘Huh? What? Because they didn’t hear what someone said.’

Rebecca told Kate she wouldn’t hold Kyle which was a mistake but that was it. No mention of giving her brother any memorial or funeral or validation of birth. I found that whole storyline odd. Kyles gone but there is Randall . That it took her time was the only realistic part of all that  scenerio. 

[Portia]

Per the dish-washing shenanigans, I was most bothered by the fact that Rebecca began drying dishes when the dining room table had not yet been fully cleared.  That whole operation was going to grind to a halt as soon as Jack finished cleaning the small stack of dirty things next to the sink. Very inefficient! It would make a whole lot more sense to let the dishes drip- and air-dry for at least a couple of minutes before anyone began to dry them.

BTW Jack was both washing and rinsing the dishes.

I hate Kate pretty consistently, but I too would have taken offense if anyone suggested it was immoral not to adopt. I am very moved by adoption stories, but had I had fertility problems, I'm not sure it would have been for me.

[TVForever]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:47 PM, Dreamboat Annie said:

At first tonight, I thought Beth's cousin could be a full on sociopath.  She wasn't interested in anything until it was something that could possibly benefit her.  Then, she did seem interested in helping Kevin to understand his Dad's time in Vietnam, appearing supportive and even suggesting he contact the men in the pictures.  But.. alas, I think she sees an opportunity for herself to produce a documentary.  Beth does love Kevin and did warn him about her. 

I don't know. Sociopath might be a bit strong. I think she could just be one of those people (and don't we all know at least one?) who are just plain selfish- who don't have a great deal of interest in another person's "stuff" beyond how it might benefit them. Some people tend to get away with it because they're physically attractive, or socially charismatic, or both.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:09 AM, mojoween said:

Teen Kate would automatically elevate every episode, and Kate generally is my least favorite character.

The girl who plays teen Kate is a fantastic actress. 

[doodlebug]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:20 AM, ChromaKelly said:

I went through IVF and I was not knocked out completely for the egg retrieval. It was twilight anesthesia. It can be done with just a local too (although that's more painful), but given that Kate's weight and anesthesia were the big danger here, I wonder why that option was never offered.
I'm really not trying to harp on the "Kate's too fat to be a parent" thing, but looking at her, I just can't see how a doctor would sign off on doing IVF. I don't think she's too fat to be a mother, but a pregnancy at her weight has to be seriously risky. Sigh. This is all for The Drama.

Did I miss something? What did Randall say to Kate that was soooo horrible? Maybe I wasn't paying full attention last week.
Ugh, I'm not digging savior Randall either. Him moving to Philly to run for council is so stupid and he would be blasted as a NJ suburban carpetbagger thinking he's better than them. 
So, Rebecca didn't want to be a housewife waiting for her husband to come home, but what does she end up being with Jack? I can't believe she told her boyfriend's mom that there's another guy and she's going to dump her son.

You're correct, IVF egg retrievals are not generally done with general anesthesia.  And, not to harp on Kate's weight too much, but, in doing the egg retrieval and later in placing the embryos, various instruments, needles, catheters, etc have to be used.  And someone whose weight is so concentrated in their abdomen is perhaps going to be too 'thick' for those instruments to reach.  And, once the instruments are in position, it is going to be hard to maneuver them into the proper position because of the thickness of her skin, vaginal wall, etc.  In morbidly obese women Kate's size, the vagina is very long and narrow due to the fat below the skin and vaginal walls and therefore, often an extra long and narrow speculum has to be used to visualize the cervix to get the embryos into the uterus, and, even then, may not allow adequate visualization and or room to manipulate the cervix, etc to get the proper positioning for embryo placement.  There are instruments which are extra long to use for obese patients; but Kate is at the size where even those would possibly not be enough.  I have seen it and have had it happen to me in the OR.

I have known of patients with serious issues who needed surgeries and were unable to have them because they were literally too large and the instruments were too short.  God forbid Kate needs a cesarean.  There would need to be multiple extra assistants around the table to hold retractors to make enough space for a surgeon to work.