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S08.E09: Lauren Finds Her Dress

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On 9/18/2018 at 12:29 PM, 3 is enough said:

I don't understand why anyone would go to the trouble to take a one month old baby on a ski vacation.   I know there are filming commitments, but TLC should have understood if Joy and Austin had chosen to skip this trip.  And why, during game night, was Jana walking around holding Gideon like he was a sack of potatoes?  She was holding him and had him on her lap, but was not engaged at all.  It just seemed very detached and odd.

The dress shopping was very contrived and Duggar-ish.  When my daughter got married I (and only me, no entourage) went with her to look for dresses.  After 3 trips she had narrowed it down to 2 choices.  At that point she did ask my husband to come along because she was having trouble deciding and she knew he would not hesitate to tell her which one he thought suited her better.  My mother happened to be visiting and came along with us.  That was it.  But yes, there was definitely a creepy vibe to Lauren's dad's interest in the proceedings.

No doubt baby was along for the trip because it was a working vacation with filming taking place.   The timing of the trip may have in fact been partially selected specifically for baby -- and mom and dad to join in specifically to satisfy the pretense of the show in fact being different from 19KAC.

IMO it's unrealistic to expect someone holding a baby to be consistently engaged with baby as their number one priority at all times.  Thinking back to holiday gatherings in our own extended family it's common for the babies to be passed around, fussed over and enjoyed by several family members during the get together -- and yet still not be the sole focus of the person holding them -- such as if a large group is engaged in a party game.   

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In a weird way, I think the trip was good for Joy. She seems positively miserable as a housewife and mother, and being Austin's mule horse means she likely doesn't spend as much time with her family as she used to. Even though she couldn't ski, she could at least enjoy the sun and the fresh air, and there were plenty of people around to take Gideon for a while so she could have a break. 

Part of me wonders if the Duggars (or should I say, Jana and Laura) have offered to help back in Arkansas and Austin being the control freak he is, refused any assistance. He doesn't seem like the type who enjoys people in his home, and it would also explain why Joy looks totally wrecked.  

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On 9/18/2018 at 5:55 PM, cereality said:

Didn’t get the sense Jing/Jer had ANY intention of having their baby anyplace but a hospital. Either that tour was just for TV or maybe Jing is just coming around to the hospital idea so Jer was appeasing her with – sure we can look at a birthing center, ACROSS THE STREET from where we do the hospital tour; after all he cares what she thinks so even if he was super uncomfortable with anything outside the hospital, he’d probably at least go along with a “compromise” like a birthing center/midwife until she herself comes to the conclusion that a hospital and MD is necessary. But I don’t even think it was just Jer.  I think Jing – as confidently as she said, my mom/sisters had home births but I want all medical care I could possibly need just in case – 100% wanted to be in a hospital; and then Jer added in the part of a children’s hospital right on campus, just in case.

It was probably a made for TV tour OR – knowing they were 2.5 hrs away, I also think it could be their “backup plan” – as in, the faintest contraction starts, jump in the car ASAP bc you never know it could be the real deal and you have 2.5 hrs of driving ahead of you. But then you get to SA and contractions have petered out or aren’t strong enough to go to the hospital yet bc if you go the hospital can’t give you an epidural, may tell you to keep walking to get labor going etc. – in that case being 2.5 hrs from home, it’s a good idea to have a birthing center across the street where you can walk, get real “nutrition” etc. until it’s for real and then you tell them – peace out, I don’t feel comfortable here, I’ll be at San Antonio General (or wherever) across the street, thanks for the Hot Pockets.  I mean I suppose one could also rent a hotel room for the same purpose but for a family that is soooo comfortable with Jilly Muffin types helping with birthing, this kind of center for a few hours may have felt normal.

And while it was nice to see Jana get heated/show some personality during the game, am I the only one who felt it sad that for their TWENTY EIGHTH birthday they played Pictionary and the winners got cupcakes?? Come on that’s a fun party for a 9 yr old. At 28 – I don’t care how conservative you are (I’m from a hyper conservative culture) and we STILL go out to dinner, with FRIENDS, guys and girls, and talk about all kinds of non sense that we wouldn’t say in front of “elders,” maybe they’re a little dancing, maybe you joke with girlfriends about the cute guy/waiter at the next table etc.

This made me laugh!  You are totally right for a 28 year old.  BUT, this sounded a lot like my 50th bday a few weeks ago.  My sisters asked what I wanted to do.  Vegas?  Somewhere in LA for a girls weekend?  Nope, I just wanted us all to get together, have a BBQ, an play games.  But yeah, at 28, maybe a bit more jooge

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7 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

I think we don't like Lauren because we know it's not the right girl for Josiah.. I think Josiah was forced into being married and that Dwain found a way to get closer to the stardom that Boob has. JMHO

I guess I stand alone. I like Lauren and just feel sorry for her and Josiah if they didn’t choose this marriage. I hope they will be happy, or at least content together.

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2 minutes ago, Love2dance said:

I guess I stand alone. I like Lauren and just feel sorry for her and Josiah if they didn’t choose this marriage. I hope they will be happy, or at least content together.

You're not alone. 

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5 hours ago, The Ascension said:

I know “Say Yes to the Dress” has kind of changed everything for wedding dress shopping and now it has to be all cutesy, but I really had a problem with the “Love it!” or “Leave it!” signs. Even though wedding dress shopping is now such an EVENT, it should be focused around the bride and what SHE wants. The way I see it, you’re there to support, tell her she looks beautiful, offer some feedback, and then affirm her choice. I cringe and feel so badly watching SYTTD when a bride so clearly LOVES a dress and the family members are like “hell no!” and the brides face falls.

 

Back to THIS show, they were throwing up their “love it” or “leave it” signs before Lauren had even expressed any thoughts. She’d barely even looked at herself in the dress and the woman is like "Let''s see the signs! Is it Love it or leave it!" No, ask Lauren first! But the whole shopping trip was weird. They kept putting her in what she did NOT want, and she didn’t even seem to like the dress she chose that much..

I felt EXACTLY the same way!!! It would crush me to try on my dream dress and see right away that everyone hated it. Plus that takes away all discussion and delicacy. In real life, it would go something like this:

mom: I like the silhouette, but I'm concerned the neckline might be too low, and you couldn't wear a bra with straps. 

Attendant: oh! If she likes this dress, we can easily add some more material to the top, and it will look very natural! Also, we can build in a bra, and add spaghetti straps to the dresss. We could even add this lace top if you want...let me show you...

That way, you have a discussion, and all is not lost. Way better than being crushed because Mom threw up a "leave it!" sign. 

15 minutes ago, Love2dance said:

I guess I stand alone. I like Lauren and just feel sorry for her and Josiah if they didn’t choose this marriage. I hope they will be happy, or at least content together.

I like lauren, but not as a wife. She seems like a nice girl with some growing up to do. She does give off a pretentious air IMO and say some borderline rude things that an older person would know not to say. I hate that she is marrying this young. She seems like a person I would have enjoyed hanging out with in the freshman dorm, with some annoying quirks that she will grow out of in a few years. By 25 or 30, she will have enough life experience to see how some of the things she says sound. THAT'S when she should be getting married! I also worry that she'll get used to speaking condescendingly to Josiah and that will stunt her growth in a way. Her social skills may not get as much work if she gets super comfortable and doesn't interact (with people who don't love her) / have to get along with coworkers / feel the need to self-reflect as much as a single or dating person might do. 

Edited by Christina87
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Granted I don't actually watch the show, so have not seen 95% of the interactions which seem to have caused this feeling toward Lauren, but I don't dislike her either. I know I have a tendency to be a bit passive-aggressive myself sometimes, but never recognized it until my kids got to the sort of ages (college and beyond) to call me out on it. I'm just naturally a very shy/non-assertive/low self-esteem type personality, and Mr.Jyn is of the stereotypical type-A engineer/manager bent, so passive-aggression is really the only thing I have at my disposal sometimes. Not saying it's ideal, but after 33+ years of marriage, maybe letting those sleeping dogs lie is easier than stirring up the potential hornets' nests that therapy and whatnot might prove to be. I try not to go that route, but sometimes a roundabout way of trying to make someone recognize that they are being hurtful, or what have you, seems like the best option.

Anyway, from what I have seen of her, Lauren doesn't seem that bad. She has probably been taught to keep sweet and submissive all her life, but may actually have enough intelligence somewhere behind it that she feels the need to try to mold things in the only way she knows, which is by trying to tug some strings without hinting that she might have any dominant tendencies. It might not be the worst thing in the world to introduce a bit of ambition, however it presents itself.

Edited by Jynnan tonnix · Reason: left out a word
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On 9/19/2018 at 5:25 PM, sixlets said:


Some of those kids were quite the skiers/snowboarders for having gone just a few times.  Dumb question, but does Arkansas get measurable snow or have resorts?  I live in Baltimore, and while we can get bad winters, I would have to go 200+ miles west to ski.  I went skiing one time and hated every minute of it.  I do remember it being quite expensive too.
 

I live in the same general neck of the woods (NW Arkansas), and winter precipitation can vary quite a bit by year. Sometimes we do get snow, but getting a lot of it would be quite unusual. The weather can also vary dramatically in nearby localities. So, my house has gotten several inches of snow in one day--which has happened maybe twice in the twenty-plus years someone in the family has been living on this property--but the nearest town twenty minutes away got 2-3 inches from that same storm, which is a much more normal amount for the area.

Ice storms and freezing rain and sleet are actually much more common than snow. And some winters, there is not really any noticeable winter precipitation of any kind at all. I don't think we had anything too bad last year. Certainly doesn't stick in my mind like the ice storm of 2009, which everyone I know around here still remembers with horror.  

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Why wasn't Jessa wearing her wedding ring/engagement ring? I noticed her hands were bare during her talking heads and during skiing. I usually barely pay attention to the screen when I watch so I don't know if this is a common occurrence? Do they perhaps no longer fit? Just seems strange in their world to not wear her rings.  

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2 hours ago, Panders said:

Why wasn't Jessa wearing her wedding ring/engagement ring? I noticed her hands were bare during her talking heads and during skiing. I usually barely pay attention to the screen when I watch so I don't know if this is a common occurrence? Do they perhaps no longer fit? Just seems strange in their world to not wear her rings.  

Maybe it was being repaired? Her setting is pretty flimsy, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of the diamonds popped out.

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3 hours ago, Panders said:

Why wasn't Jessa wearing her wedding ring/engagement ring? I noticed her hands were bare during her talking heads and during skiing. I usually barely pay attention to the screen when I watch so I don't know if this is a common occurrence? Do they perhaps no longer fit? Just seems strange in their world to not wear her rings.  

When my hands get cold, my wedding rings are pretty loose. Not loose enough that I worry about them falling off - unless I am in a setting where I am removing gloves frequently. I don't wear my rings when I go skiing or when I do fieldwork in the winter months. 

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11 hours ago, cereality said:

And Jana – you say you want to get with a construction guy bc you like that stuff and want to be able to work with your man – girlfriend get yourself to Home Depot on a weeknight.  Went there last night – first time going on a weeknight in years and it was TEEMING with contractors picking up 2x4s

Lol I read this as “contractors picking up 24s” like, 24 year olds. I was like “daaaaaamn! Broads are cruising your local Home Depot hard!

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On 9/19/2018 at 1:12 PM, mythoughtis said:

has there been 1 single episode this season that Michelle and JB have not been featured?  Maybe it’s because the episodes are focusing on family events that would normally feature the parents ... but they sure seem to be front and center. Their minor children seem featured a lot too. 

Sadly, I think we are stuck with them. As long as they can keep marrying off the kids and having grandchildren, TLC seems to think they need to be on the show, I disagree.

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7 hours ago, Triple P said:

When my hands get cold, my wedding rings are pretty loose. Not loose enough that I worry about them falling off - unless I am in a setting where I am removing gloves frequently. I don't wear my rings when I go skiing or when I do fieldwork in the winter months. 

She wasn't wearing it during her TH segments. No excuses there other than it was in for repairs. 

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20 hours ago, cereality said:

LOL at whoever said maybe Jana is the Monica Geller. LOL. But she did come across as the stickler on all things, competitive, everything must be just right etc. JD made it seem like his twin was such a drag that why even bother playing.

Game night is a thing for adults, yet for all the 28 yr olds in my world – way different than the Duggars. First there’s alcohol and often a cute guy/girl you may be crushing on. But even if there aren’t those things, usually you’re playing on a Fri/Sat – maybe you’ve had a long week at work; maybe your boss is a jackass; maybe you are completely done with your commute; maybe you’re dreading the 37 upcoming deadlines on Monday. This is your chance to hang with friends, unwind, forget about real life for a bit. In Jana and the Duggars’ case – what are they unwinding FROM?? No real jobs for anyone. Everyone starts every day at 10 am or later bc what’s the rush when there’s no job or boss or commute? Sure Jana has to run the home/raise her mother’s kids, but let’s be real she does that on vacation too. She was toting around Gideon on game night and you better believe it’s still her responsibility to make sure her siblings are fed in those cabins nightly and the little ones are bathed; she may not be cooking dinner on vacation but I’m guessing she – like a mother – is the one everyone turns to at 6 pm asking, when’s dinner and she is the one who then says – oh I ordered x and y, it’ll be here at 6:15, go wash up.

So in her case, game night is not the escape from life, it is THE event in life. Winning is THE EVENT that likely makes the week/month bc honestly what else is there to look forward to in the upcoming week or month? It’s sad.

And Jana – you say you want to get with a construction guy bc you like that stuff and want to be able to work with your man – girlfriend get yourself to Home Depot on a weeknight.  Went there last night – first time going on a weeknight in years and it was TEEMING with contractors picking up 2x4s, flooring, tiles, whatever else they need for their jobs starting the next morning. Yet bc they aren’t rushing to that job at 7 pm, they will strike up a conversation with a pretty girl who seems interested.  Grab that girl you’re always with and go walk up and down the aisles and get a few numbers and then go out to dinner with your friend and talk like normal 28 yr olds about how that guy was soooo cute and how you want to text him right now but will wait a day!?

Oh yeah.  We recently had our kitchen remodeled, and bought lots of stuff at HD and Lowe's.  It's true, most of the guys there looked to be in the construction biz, and many weren't bad-looking.

We used an A-rated contractor that we found on Angie's List.  Full disclosure:  Mr. Xword and I are seasoned citizens.  Our contractor was probably late 50-ish, and seriously appealing in many ways, as were his sons that worked on our project.  If I were single, you can bet I would have welcomed a hit from the boss!  They all did a great job on the kitchen, and I managed to restrain myself, LOL!

Mr. Xword is handy with tools, just not up to a total redo.  He worked construction in his 20's, and he can do fixit jobs when something non-electrical breaks.  That is a huge plus.  Yes, Jana could do worse than to shop the hardware stores.  She's young, pretty, and I am sure she'd be noticed.

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14 hours ago, Panders said:

Why wasn't Jessa wearing her wedding ring/engagement ring? I noticed her hands were bare during her talking heads and during skiing. I usually barely pay attention to the screen when I watch so I don't know if this is a common occurrence? Do they perhaps no longer fit? Just seems strange in their world to not wear her rings.  

In the previous episode where Jessa and Joy went to the Y (?) to walk, she was not wearing her rings either.  I don't know why, but rings are one of the first things I notice on a person.  With skiing, I can see them not wearing their e-rings with the gloves.  I wear my e-ring, wedding band, and anniversary band 24/7, but I will turn the e.r. around so the solitaire is in my palm.  It can get the way and get caught on random things.

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1 hour ago, sixlets said:

In the previous episode where Jessa and Joy went to the Y (?) to walk, she was not wearing her rings either.  I don't know why, but rings are one of the first things I notice on a person.  With skiing, I can see them not wearing their e-rings with the gloves.  I wear my e-ring, wedding band, and anniversary band 24/7, but I will turn the e.r. around so the solitaire is in my palm.  It can get the way and get caught on random things.

See, that does not bother me. If I go walking, rings are off because my fingers swell when I walk. I also don’t wear my rings all the time. I do, however, switch off between my diamond engagement and wedding rings, and a plain gold band. Or no rings, depending on what I am doing. Not a big deal for me. For them, they may need to have their rings on all the time to show they are married. 

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Jana should also check out grocery stores on Saturday night.  Ours has quite a few men on their own buying snacks to go home and sit in front of the TV.  I know because I've been asked for my number a couple of times.  Maybe she really loves her life.  At her age I would have been bored out of my mind!

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4 minutes ago, beagletime said:

Jana should also check out grocery stores on Saturday night.  Ours has quite a few men on their own buying snacks to go home and sit in front of the TV.  I know because I've been asked for my number a couple of times.  Maybe she really loves her life.  At her age I would have been bored out of my mind!

That's actually how I met my husband. He struck up a conversation at the deli counter and here we are, ten years later :)

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I’m one of those rare women who finds wandering the aisles of Home Depot relaxing.  Doesn’t make me think – I should find a contractor husband (though maybe?) as much as it makes me think – man maybe I should buy a house. I would love to remodel something to my liking, I can afford it, why hold back, maybe I start looking so I am in a position to buy in the next downturn etc.? Sad for Jana that something like that could never be on her radar – she’ll get a house if/when she gets a husband.

But the Duggars have just made it so hard for their adult kids to have any semblance of normalcy. Pretty sure Jana isn’t allowed to go out alone. That means she takes a child chaperone – in which case any contractor who sees her thinks she’s someone’s wife and mom and stays away.  Or she takes one of her married sisters all of whom are smug married and don’t give an eff and would tell her – sorry I have to be home with my HUSBAND and kids and can’t be wandering a Home Depot on a Tues night for you.  She has no one who can be her wing woman and she needs one bc daddy doesn’t let her go out alone. And then even if she gets around this, some guy thinks she’s cute and asks for her # -- does she give it to him and talk to him on the sly for a few days/weeks until she can figure out how to sneak out for a date? Or does she say – you need to call and ask my daddy, here’s his # -- which makes a man, even a conservative Christian one run far far away?!

Sucks how much the Duggar siblings don’t care about each other. Contrast the Bates family – Erin sees a guy waitering at some Christian event and decides he’d look cute with one of her sisters. Bam asks for his number/gives her sister's # they talk on the phone 24-7 w/ mommy and daddy not even knowing (or even if they knew something was up – they weren’t involved on the calls) and they’ve now been together for 2 years and likely will be engaged any day.

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6 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

She wasn't wearing it during her TH segments. No excuses there other than it was in for repairs. 

False. I’m sure she took it off to wash dishes and forgot to put it back on.

Hahahahahahahaha (breathes) hahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Joy-Anna did in fact look quite unhappy this episode....hoping it's just normal exhaustion caused by recovering from a c-section and having a newborn.  I was thinking that one night soon when I can't sleep (which seems to be most nights these days, sadly!), I might watch some older episodes just to see if I'm remember things correctly, as I recall Joy-Anna being much more happy-go-lucky, spunky, and independent than she's seemed to be in a long time.  My little sis commented on this too after watching this episode;  she said, "Joy-Anna just doesn't seem happy any more.  Not that she seems unhappy with or because of Austin, but that neither she, nor Austin, seem like they have much happiness or joy in their lives right now for some reason."  Also, if Joy-Anna really wanted to ski, there was nobody willing to watch Gideon for a couple hours so she could at least go hang out with the group, even if she didn't feel up physically to actually skiing?  For instance, and maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see Michelle skiing, to be honest, and watching a brand-new baby seems like something right up her alley.

As for Jana, I wonder if she really does spend her days waiting for a husband to come along, or if she gives some lip service to that, since she knows she's supposed to want that, but is actually perfectly happy with how things are?  I personally can't imagine living as narrow a life as most of the Duggars (the extensive amount of international travel they do aside, lol), but maybe Jana likes it?  I mean, in exchange for watching kiddos (most of whom are somewhat self-sufficient at this point) and making sure they get some kind of food at some point during the day, doing some housework (and not snarking here, but the house is not exactly pristine, so I really don't think Jana is like Cinderella, slaving away cleaning from morning to night), she doesn't have to work, has no bills to pay, no outside responsibilities.  Basically, she wakes up whenever she wakes up, does pretty much whatever she wants when she wants, whether that's puttering around in her garden, working on one of JB's apparently extensive collection of homes he's renovating, and whatever else it is she gets up to in the course of a normal (not being filmed) day.

Personally, I can't imagine anything more boring, but for some people, even those who have options, that's their ideal and what they choose.  I have two sisters in law, both of whom have master's degrees in education, who quit their teaching jobs as soon as they had kids (one sister had one child, the other had two.....and all 3 of their kids are now at least college-age), and neither has ever worked another day nor intends to.  When I moved from the state in which I was originally licensed to practice law and had to wait until I was admitted by reciprocity in my new state to start working as an attorney again, I thought I was going to lose my mind.  So for me, when I talk to my sisters in law and they're talking about how productive their day was - "I cleaned all 5 toilets in the house today!!" - I can't even begin to relate to finding that fulfilling.  But for them, that is what they have freely chosen....so to each their own, I suppose.

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5 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

as I recall Joy-Anna being much more happy-go-lucky, spunky, and independent than she's seemed to be in a long time.

As a kid she had some spirit but she was known as Joyless-Anna both here and back on TWoP in the day so I think her misery started when she hit puberty and was expected to stop being a tomboy and become a "young lady" or whatever tosh they teach at Journey to the Heart. She's become increasingly listless ever since.

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Joy probably was miserable at that moment in time. Newborns are HARD! I think there is all this pressure to be happy smiling glowing 24/7 with a newborn. My baby is 13 weeks so this is all fresh in my mind. Easily the toughest time in my life and I am 30 years old and have known my husband for over 8 years. We were READY for this baby and I still was likely the most miserable I've ever been weeks 1-7. And I didn't have a traumatic birth or have to recover from a C section like Joy does.

 I would rather have died then gone on that ski trip with a baby that young. Poor Joy. They probably needed the paycheck so off they went. When your baby is that young and you are breastfeeding, you don't really get a break either even if there are many people offering to help.

Edited by yogi2014L
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14 hours ago, cereality said:

Sucks how much the Duggar siblings don’t care about each other.

Like everything else about them, it goes back to the shitty, selfish way Jim Bob and Michelle brought them up. They were raised to spy and tattle on each other in the name of "accountability" (Jill seems to have been the worst snitch, but I'm sure they were all encouraged to do it) and to compete with each other for the few scraps of attention Michelle was willing to throw out to them. How could they possibly like or trust each other as adults after growing up in a snake pit where it was every kid for himself? And this wasn't just ignorance or indifference on Jim Bob and Michelle's part; it was a systematic program of "divide and conquer" aimed at making each kid feel alone and defenseless, completely at the mercy of their parents' good will.

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10 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

Joy-Anna did in fact look quite unhappy this episode....hoping it's just normal exhaustion caused by recovering from a c-section and having a newborn.  I was thinking that one night soon when I can't sleep (which seems to be most nights these days, sadly!), I might watch some older episodes just to see if I'm remember things correctly, as I recall Joy-Anna being much more happy-go-lucky, spunky, and independent than she's seemed to be in a long time.  My little sis commented on this too after watching this episode;  she said, "Joy-Anna just doesn't seem happy any more.  Not that she seems unhappy with or because of Austin, but that neither she, nor Austin, seem like they have much happiness or joy in their lives right now for some reason."  Also, if Joy-Anna really wanted to ski, there was nobody willing to watch Gideon for a couple hours so she could at least go hang out with the group, even if she didn't feel up physically to actually skiing?  For instance, and maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see Michelle skiing, to be honest, and watching a brand-new baby seems like something right up her alley.

As for Jana, I wonder if she really does spend her days waiting for a husband to come along, or if she gives some lip service to that, since she knows she's supposed to want that, but is actually perfectly happy with how things are?  I personally can't imagine living as narrow a life as most of the Duggars (the extensive amount of international travel they do aside, lol), but maybe Jana likes it?  I mean, in exchange for watching kiddos (most of whom are somewhat self-sufficient at this point) and making sure they get some kind of food at some point during the day, doing some housework (and not snarking here, but the house is not exactly pristine, so I really don't think Jana is like Cinderella, slaving away cleaning from morning to night), she doesn't have to work, has no bills to pay, no outside responsibilities.  Basically, she wakes up whenever she wakes up, does pretty much whatever she wants when she wants, whether that's puttering around in her garden, working on one of JB's apparently extensive collection of homes he's renovating, and whatever else it is she gets up to in the course of a normal (not being filmed) day.

Personally, I can't imagine anything more boring, but for some people, even those who have options, that's their ideal and what they choose.  I have two sisters in law, both of whom have master's degrees in education, who quit their teaching jobs as soon as they had kids (one sister had one child, the other had two.....and all 3 of their kids are now at least college-age), and neither has ever worked another day nor intends to.  When I moved from the state in which I was originally licensed to practice law and had to wait until I was admitted by reciprocity in my new state to start working as an attorney again, I thought I was going to lose my mind.  So for me, when I talk to my sisters in law and they're talking about how productive their day was - "I cleaned all 5 toilets in the house today!!" - I can't even begin to relate to finding that fulfilling.  But for them, that is what they have freely chosen....so to each their own, I suppose.

Haha you hit the nail on the head! I would find that fulfilling, but I know a lot of people who wouldn't. Might also have to do with education today. I am (was?) a teacher through this past year, and it is so much harder than I expected! Kids are totally disrespectful these days and allowed to get away with anything because we wouldn't want our discipline numbers to look bad. Admins are hard on teachers and blame them for anything a kid does. There are no textbooks anymore; you come up with your own curriculum from scratch. You spend a whole lot of your own money, and it isn't appreciated by the kids or admins. Plus it's always been emotionally exhausting work, and when I came home the last few months, even cooking a simple dinner pushed me over the edge into deliriously tired (and having a legitimately abusive boss didn't help). The standards teachers are held to are honestly impossible; you "meet" them if your boss likes you. I taught chorus, and I was marked down dramatically if there was one kid not singing. Yeah, impossible. I envisioned doing this for 30 years, but now I absolutely can't imagine why anyone who had the option to stay home would still teach. I have MAJOR respect for anyone here who has stuck it out! I may try again someday with a different boss, because I loved my job despite its difficulties before he came, but TBH the idea of going back into education at all leaves me feeling exhaustion just thinking about it! Reminds me of stories I hear about medical residencies...sustainable for a while, but not forever. 

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19 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

Oh yeah.  We recently had our kitchen remodeled, and bought lots of stuff at HD and Lowe's.  It's true, most of the guys there looked to be in the construction biz, and many weren't bad-looking.

We used an A-rated contractor that we found on Angie's List.  Full disclosure:  Mr. Xword and I are seasoned citizens.  Our contractor was probably late 50-ish, and seriously appealing in many ways, as were his sons that worked on our project.  If I were single, you can bet I would have welcomed a hit from the boss!  They all did a great job on the kitchen, and I managed to restrain myself, LOL!

Mr. Xword is handy with tools, just not up to a total redo.  He worked construction in his 20's, and he can do fixit jobs when something non-electrical breaks.  That is a huge plus.  Yes, Jana could do worse than to shop the hardware stores.  She's young, pretty, and I am sure she'd be noticed.

In my job I see all the kids and parents during Orientation and move in.  I have been here so long on campus (literally just over 1/2 my life) I have gone from checking out the new students to checking out the hot dads.  Soon I may be moving on to the grandparents.  HA!

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6 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

In my job I see all the kids and parents during Orientation and move in.  I have been here so long on campus (literally just over 1/2 my life) I have gone from checking out the new students to checking out the hot dads.  Soon I may be moving on to the grandparents.  HA!

HAHAHAHA! "Hot grandpa at 3:00!"

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2 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

HAHAHAHA! "Hot grandpa at 3:00!"

My staff laugh at me.  Seriously some of the dads are super cute.  Then I remember I am married and my staff know my husband.  What happens at our desk stays at our desk :).   Speaking of, I was sitting there Thursday helping them out and this cute man comes up to get his ID (new grad student) and I realize MAN, this guy looks familiar.  I ask if his name is X (really unusual name, it may be made up) and he says yes, then he looks at me like he recognizes me.  We dated off and on for a year when we were **18**!  I am 50.  Really nuts.

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I hear ya, @Christina87.  I taught for 38 years.  I loved it when I was there, and LOVE it now that I'm not.  I know many retirees who rush back to substitute, and just can't give up the job.  I, on the other hand, left the last day of school, drove away, and never looked back.  And you are correct--it is not a job for just anyone.  I'm sorry you had such a hard time.  We really need good music teachers in our schools.  You are also correct that parents, administrators, and bad student attitudes are making it much harder to teach.  Have you ever considered a program like Kindermusik?  You could open your own studio and be your own boss.

Edited by CalicoKitty · Reason: I didn't mean to type a double negative.
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2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Haha you hit the nail on the head! I would find that fulfilling, but I know a lot of people who wouldn't. Might also have to do with education today. I am (was?) a teacher through this past year, and it is so much harder than I expected! Kids are totally disrespectful these days and allowed to get away with anything because we wouldn't want our discipline numbers to look bad. Admins are hard on teachers and blame them for anything a kid does. There are no textbooks anymore; you come up with your own curriculum from scratch. You spend a whole lot of your own money, and it isn't appreciated by the kids or admins. Plus it's always been emotionally exhausting work, and when I came home the last few months, even cooking a simple dinner pushed me over the edge into deliriously tired (and having a legitimately abusive boss didn't help). The standards teachers are held to are honestly impossible; you "meet" them if your boss likes you. I taught chorus, and I was marked down dramatically if there was one kid not singing. Yeah, impossible. I envisioned doing this for 30 years, but now I absolutely can't imagine why anyone who had the option to stay home would still teach. I have MAJOR respect for anyone here who has stuck it out! I may try again someday with a different boss, because I loved my job despite its difficulties before he came, but TBH the idea of going back into education at all leaves me feeling exhaustion just thinking about it! Reminds me of stories I hear about medical residencies...sustainable for a while, but not forever. 

My sister taught in a public school in the late 60's.  She specifically went to a "teacher's college" so that was her career goal.

It turned out to be much harder than she expected.  She felt badly that she couldn't help the kids more, although she really tried to.  After only two years, she quit teaching.

I have a lot of respect for teachers, too.  They invest years into getting educated, and many (I'd guess most) take on a lot of loan debt to do so.  They're expected to do so much, and many locales pay less than a living wage, even for a single person.  I hear you, Christina.  You've given a more up-to-date picture, and it doesn't look like things have improved almost 50 years later.

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2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

In my job I see all the kids and parents during Orientation and move in.  I have been here so long on campus (literally just over 1/2 my life) I have gone from checking out the new students to checking out the hot dads.  Soon I may be moving on to the grandparents.  HA!

See, I knew you were my younger sister from another mister!  

I've seen a few hot grandpas on my walks.  I don't say more than 'good morning,' though!

I'm old, not dead, after all!

Back to topic:  so Lauren had all her bridesmaids at the dress try-on?  The love it or leave it thingies had to have been staged.  Lauren's mom seems even more Stepford than many other women that I've noticed lately.  

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3 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

See, I knew you were my younger sister from another mister!  

I've seen a few hot grandpas on my walks.  I don't say more than 'good morning,' though!

I'm old, not dead, after all!

Back to topic:  so Lauren had all her bridesmaids at the dress try-on?  The love it or leave it thingies had to have been staged.  Lauren's mom seems even more Stepford than many other women that I've noticed lately.  

HA!  We aren't blind either!!!!!  

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Watching the episode now, random thoughts:

Jinger never had any intention of giving birth anywhere but at a hospital. She was clearly not at all interested in natural birth back when Jana and Jill were were attending births, and when she made that comment about having to do it naturally at the birth center because she wouldn't have any other options, something about the way she said it made it obvious she was just touring the center for filming purposes.

I think the family and TLC finally talked Jana into acting herself on camera instead of fake smiling her way through talking heads. It's nice seeing her act like a normal human being. 

Lauren's face and manner of speaking bug the hell out of me. And I'm still judging her on "I'm a lil Salvadorean so I like that kind of (shitty fake "Mexican") food!" And Lauren? You can't choose a form-fitting dress and then state you want the focus on your face and not your body, you dumbass. 

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18 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Haha you hit the nail on the head! I would find that fulfilling, but I know a lot of people who wouldn't. Might also have to do with education today. I am (was?) a teacher through this past year, and it is so much harder than I expected! Kids are totally disrespectful these days and allowed to get away with anything because we wouldn't want our discipline numbers to look bad. Admins are hard on teachers and blame them for anything a kid does. There are no textbooks anymore; you come up with your own curriculum from scratch. You spend a whole lot of your own money, and it isn't appreciated by the kids or admins. Plus it's always been emotionally exhausting work, and when I came home the last few months, even cooking a simple dinner pushed me over the edge into deliriously tired (and having a legitimately abusive boss didn't help). The standards teachers are held to are honestly impossible; you "meet" them if your boss likes you. I taught chorus, and I was marked down dramatically if there was one kid not singing. Yeah, impossible. I envisioned doing this for 30 years, but now I absolutely can't imagine why anyone who had the option to stay home would still teach. I have MAJOR respect for anyone here who has stuck it out! I may try again someday with a different boss, because I loved my job despite its difficulties before he came, but TBH the idea of going back into education at all leaves me feeling exhaustion just thinking about it! Reminds me of stories I hear about medical residencies...sustainable for a while, but not forever. 

 

Christina - that is my point exactly!!  After watching this episode, I was left wondering if Jana is living the life she is because, according to many, she's just another "victim" of Gothard, ATI, Journey to the Heart, JB and Michelle, and so on, all of which have "indoctrinated" her to think she has no option other than marriage/babies.  OR, is Jana living the life she is because she doesn't want to get married and have babies?  Granted, Jana might not have as many options as some, but let's face it, none of us really has even close to equal opportunities in deciding what to "do when we grow up."  Most people have more or less options depending on their family of origin, socio-economic status, place of residence, and way too many other factors to list.  And, within the options available to Jana, one, I wonder if she's made a conscious decision to not seek/create/pursue any other opportunities, and two, out of the options available to her, has chosen the route that she prefers and makes her happier than the alternative(s) would?

To be clear, I have absolutely no idea, but neither Jana nor John David has seemed to have the "must get married as soon as humanly possible" mentality that you see so often in this family and other like-minded families.  And again, while her life might not be the right choice for me or a lot of people, maybe, just maybe, it's exactly what she wants to be doing.  Just like you, Christina, who were brave enough to step away from teaching, even though I know you worked so hard to get there and I'm sure people sometimes might make snarky or judgmental comments.  You chose to do what is right for YOU and your family, and that is what matters, imho.  :-)  

Edited by SabineElisabeth
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17 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Like everything else about them, it goes back to the shitty, selfish way Jim Bob and Michelle brought them up. They were raised to spy and tattle on each other in the name of "accountability" (Jill seems to have been the worst snitch, but I'm sure they were all encouraged to do it) and to compete with each other for the few scraps of attention Michelle was willing to throw out to them. How could they possibly like or trust each other as adults after growing up in a snake pit where it was every kid for himself? And this wasn't just ignorance or indifference on Jim Bob and Michelle's part; it was a systematic program of "divide and conquer" aimed at making each kid feel alone and defenseless, completely at the mercy of their parents' good will.

 

On 9/21/2018 at 9:39 PM, cereality said:

I’m one of those rare women who finds wandering the aisles of Home Depot relaxing.  Doesn’t make me think – I should find a contractor husband (though maybe?) as much as it makes me think – man maybe I should buy a house. I would love to remodel something to my liking, I can afford it, why hold back, maybe I start looking so I am in a position to buy in the next downturn etc.? Sad for Jana that something like that could never be on her radar – she’ll get a house if/when she gets a husband.

But the Duggars have just made it so hard for their adult kids to have any semblance of normalcy. Pretty sure Jana isn’t allowed to go out alone. That means she takes a child chaperone – in which case any contractor who sees her thinks she’s someone’s wife and mom and stays away.  Or she takes one of her married sisters all of whom are smug married and don’t give an eff and would tell her – sorry I have to be home with my HUSBAND and kids and can’t be wandering a Home Depot on a Tues night for you.  She has no one who can be her wing woman and she needs one bc daddy doesn’t let her go out alone. And then even if she gets around this, some guy thinks she’s cute and asks for her # -- does she give it to him and talk to him on the sly for a few days/weeks until she can figure out how to sneak out for a date? Or does she say – you need to call and ask my daddy, here’s his # -- which makes a man, even a conservative Christian one run far far away?!

Sucks how much the Duggar siblings don’t care about each other. Contrast the Bates family – Erin sees a guy waitering at some Christian event and decides he’d look cute with one of her sisters. Bam asks for his number/gives her sister's # they talk on the phone 24-7 w/ mommy and daddy not even knowing (or even if they knew something was up – they weren’t involved on the calls) and they’ve now been together for 2 years and likely will be engaged any day.

If I remember correctly, didn't Jessa and Ben have at least some part in Jeremy and Jinger getting to know each other?  

Further, with 19 kids, especially with the huge age ranges, it seems to me beyond the realm of believably to think that all 19 of the kids could be equally close with each other.  However, whatever faults, foibles, and personality quirks they may all have, I personally completely believe all of them care about the others to at least some degree, and that there are some groups of siblings (buddy groups, those closest in age, closest in interests, etc) who care very deeply about each other.  For example....and say what you want about Jill, but to me, I have no doubt she absolutely cares for her sibs who were on her buddy team and would do whatever she could for them, including setting them up if the opportunity arose and that's what said kid wanted.

Maybe I'm missing something, though?  Have any of the Duggars asked a brother or sister for help in facilitating the meeting of a potential suitor and been turned down, or even worse, had the offer accepted only to then be subjected to an attitude the whole time that said he/she doesn't give "an eff" about said sib?  There have been so many episodes of this show and 19 Kids that I'm sure I have missed tons, and this might be something that flew completely under my radar?

Edited by SabineElisabeth · Reason: Grammar and typos kick my ass sometimes /-:
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1 hour ago, SabineElisabeth said:

 

If I remember correctly, didn't Jessa and Ben have at least some part in Jeremy and Jinger getting to know each other?  

Further, with 19 kids, especially with the huge age ranges, it seems to me beyond the realm of believably to think that all 19 of the kids could be equally close with each other.  However, whatever faults, foibles, and personality quirks they may all have, I personally completely believe all of them care about the others to at least some degree, and that there are some groups of siblings (buddy groups, those closest in age, closest in interests, etc) who care very deeply about each other.  For example....and say what you want about Jill, but to me, I have no doubt she absolutely cares for her sibs who were on her buddy team and would do whatever she could for them, including setting them up if the opportunity arose and that's what said kid wanted.

Maybe I'm missing something, though?  Have any of the Duggars asked a brother or sister for help in facilitating the meeting of a potential suitor and been turned down, or even worse, had the offer accepted only to then be subjected to an attitude the whole time that said he/she doesn't give "an eff" about said sib?  There have been so many episodes of this show and 19 Kids that I'm sure I have missed tons, and this might be something that flew completely under my radar?

No you’re right. It was Jessa that introduced Jeremy to Jinger after meering him, thinking he was hot and knowing Jinger would agree. 

Jill absolutely loves and is emotionally invested in her buddy team. 

With that many siblings no human being is going to have an emotionally inimitate relationship with all of them- even in the best of families humans just don’t have the bandwidth!

Its my personal belief that Jana will marry eventually, but her role as Mom at the TTH is what’s she wants to be doing right now. It’s an excellent way to have the largest amount of freedom a woman in her culture can have. 

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There is a secular theory on "birth order" that says once you reach a certain gap it's logical that "kid generations" don't interact all that much, also. I forget what the particulars would be for a family like the Duggars - I know it's "any time 4 years pass between children", which certainly doesn't apply - but a teen in high school is veritably expected to have a different relationship with their mother's surprise perimenopause toddler, than they would with a brother 2 years younger than said teen, whose head they grew up whacking over toy fights.

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Yeah I think I've read that, according to birth order, a 5 year gap between siblings means that they are like 2 only children rather than older sibling/younger sibling.

I actually come from a family with a sizable gap in years. My brother and I are from our mother's third marriage. We're about eighteen months apart and are very close. Her children from her first marriage were about 3 years apart from each other and were close to each other but were teenagers when I was born. I think there's a 14 and 17 year age difference between us. We all got along well, but our relationship was probably more like an uncle and niece than a brother and sister. 

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24 minutes ago, queenanne said:

There is a secular theory on "birth order" that says once you reach a certain gap it's logical that "kid generations" don't interact all that much, also. I forget what the particulars would be for a family like the Duggars - I know it's "any time 4 years pass between children", which certainly doesn't apply - but a teen in high school is veritably expected to have a different relationship with their mother's surprise perimenopause toddler, than they would with a brother 2 years younger than said teen, whose head they grew up whacking over toy fights.

I break the Duggar kids down into:

1st set- Josh through Jinger (raised by JB& Michelle, served as authority figures to the younger kids)

2nd set- Joe through Justin, born before the family started appearing on national tv and spent their early childhood in cramped quarters and without parental attention due to numbers, while the older kids (aka 2nd parents) were young teens themselves. Have it the hardest in a lot of ways. 

3rd Set- born after the TLC gravy train (Jackson- Josie), of that set Jennifer the only one who’s birth we didn’t see in real time. They were raised in the TTH and don’t remember the lean years. 100% raised by buddies and Jana.

 

of course the buddy groups will be close. Outside of the buddy group you will “know” the other siblings in your set better than the others simply due to logistical reasons. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

I break the Duggar kids down into:

1st set- Josh through Jinger (raised by JB& Michelle, served as authority figures to the younger kids)

2nd set- Joe through Justin, born before the family started appearing on national tv and spent their early childhood in cramped quarters and without parental attention due to numbers, while the older kids (aka 2nd parents) were young teens themselves. Have it the hardest in a lot of ways. 

3rd Set- born after the TLC gravy train (Jackson- Josie), of that set Jennifer the only one who’s birth we didn’t see in real time. They were raised in the TTH and don’t remember the lean years. 100% raised by buddies and Jana.

 

of course the buddy groups will be close. Outside of the buddy group you will “know” the other siblings in your set better than the others simply due to logistical reasons. 

I think this makes sense! 

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4 hours ago, queenanne said:

There is a secular theory on "birth order" that says once you reach a certain gap it's logical that "kid generations" don't interact all that much, also. I forget what the particulars would be for a family like the Duggars - I know it's "any time 4 years pass between children", which certainly doesn't apply - but a teen in high school is veritably expected to have a different relationship with their mother's surprise perimenopause toddler, than they would with a brother 2 years younger than said teen, whose head they grew up whacking over toy fights.

 

4 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I think I've read that, according to birth order, a 5 year gap between siblings means that they are like 2 only children rather than older sibling/younger sibling.

I actually come from a family with a sizable gap in years. My brother and I are from our mother's third marriage. We're about eighteen months apart and are very close. Her children from her first marriage were about 3 years apart from each other and were close to each other but were teenagers when I was born. I think there's a 14 and 17 year age difference between us. We all got along well, but our relationship was probably more like an uncle and niece than a brother and sister. 

That's probably true. I have one friend she and her immediate older brother were both born several years after their four older siblings. Her brother was an oops and their parents realized since he was about seven or eight years younger then his brother and sisters he really wouldn't have the same experience of growing up with a sibling. So they had one more. Those two ended up closer while the four oldest ended up closer. Another friend he was from his mother's second marriage, she had four kids in their teens when she met and married her second husband. Even though he adopted all four they decided to have one together so he could be there for the beginning of one child. They all get along really well but he was mostly raised an only child because all four graduated and moved out by the time he was five. In many ways him and my friend were closer in age to their nieces and nephews and more a part of their generations. 

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On 22/09/2018 at 10:05 AM, sixlets said:

In the previous episode where Jessa and Joy went to the Y (?) to walk, she was not wearing her rings either.  I don't know why, but rings are one of the first things I notice on a person.  With skiing, I can see them not wearing their e-rings with the gloves.  I wear my e-ring, wedding band, and anniversary band 24/7, but I will turn the e.r. around so the solitaire is in my palm.  It can get the way and get caught on random things.

I’ve been married for many moons, I never wear my rings, I’m just not a jewellery person 

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On 9/22/2018 at 4:55 PM, xwordfanatik said:

My sister taught in a public school in the late 60's.  She specifically went to a "teacher's college" so that was her career goal.

It turned out to be much harder than she expected.  She felt badly that she couldn't help the kids more, although she really tried to.  After only two years, she quit teaching.

I have a lot of respect for teachers, too.  They invest years into getting educated, and many (I'd guess most) take on a lot of loan debt to do so.  They're expected to do so much, and many locales pay less than a living wage, even for a single person.  I hear you, Christina.  You've given a more up-to-date picture, and it doesn't look like things have improved almost 50 years later.

That means so much to me!! Thank you for sharing your story. Sounds like your sister and I have a lot in common! I had wanted to be a teacher since I was a kid, and saw myself as a teacher through and through. I saw so many girls in my training program who were clearly there just to have something to do while they dated frat boys, or because they thought it was an "easy" major, and I didn't consider them to be teachers deep down like I was. I heard that half of teachers leave in the first five years, and I pictured it being these girls, or people who left to be SAHM's. well, a lot of people HAVE left to be SAHM's, but only because they wanted to quit anyway and staying home was easier than finding another career. And in a lot of ways, I think it's harder on people who genuinely do care. A lot of my peers that I really respected have left too, because if you care, you're never satisfied and never feel like you have made enough of a difference. I feel like being a teacher was such a big part of my identity that it's a weird feeling, but I gave it my best shot, and the realities of the job were just so much different than I had expected. If you don't mind me asking, what did your sister end up doing? I'm just starting to look for jobs, and am honestly terrified!

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Christina, my sister was a SAHM until her eventual divorce.  Then she worked for DSHS for quite a few years as a caseworker and eventually a supervisor there.  Sadly, she died of cancer several years ago.  She would have been 70 this year.  I had hoped we'd become closer as retired old ladies, but it wasn't to be.  I miss her.

I wish you the best.  Hopefully your degree will be useful in a different job.  As it turned out, my undergrad degree wasn't really applicable in my eventual job, from which I retired years ago.  I'm still happy that I had the college experience that I did.  

BTT, will Lauren ever be allowed to work?  I wonder if her mother did, like Dillweed's mother.  At least she (Lauren) attended college, unlike Si.  She probably lords it over him! I just find her annoying.  I also think that the dress selection was prearranged.  Tonight must be the wedding episode.

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19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Lauren said she didn't like school and had no plans to pursue nursing. I don't think she's a career-oriented person. 

Well she married into the perfect family

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